This is so funny, you said to the audience that you wonder if you lost them along the way, and I am like watching you speak here on You tube dead tired at 23.45., waking up at 5.45 AM, but I am all ears and eyes wide open as much as I can still hold them like that😁 Thank you for this beautiful lecture, it really means a lot and it is very helpful to some of us😃💜
One day Jonathan Pageau will be canonized as a Saint. He may not know it yet, or see his importance. Thank you God for sending us Jonathan Pageau. He's a burning flame of the holy spirit in the illusion of infinite darkness that is the internet.
This guy is killing my protestantism slowly and steady. What is remaining is to subdue my reason to God in the church and finally experience him as the churchfathers did. But im still rebeling :)
Such an amazing talk. Thank you for helping me with understanding my faith and this life in a way that I had never known. Loved Matthieu's book as well! The Language of Creation is wonderful.
The heart is like an onion ~ Johnatan Pageau, sharing wisdoms from our prophet Shrek who said upon ye mule ogres are like onions. Where ye mule replied "they are of the odour most foul?". "Nay thy beast of burden, for yey have layers!"
Haha, a minute before Jonathan starts speaking about nous and the little wake up moments (at around 34 mins) I had exactly that and started thinking how I could hold onto it. Thanks Jonathan :)
I have no idea what some of these commenters watched but I assume they see the title “Mysticism” and wrote opinions after watching no more than a minute (or less) of this God-inspired talk.
"Mysticism" and "anthropology" in the title are like a bait for alternate spirituality types. And many in those circles are hostile towards any form of Christianity.
Appealing both to the intellect and to our intuition/heart experience. People can find many little gems here and at least one that makes particular sense right now for them. The images are nourishing the soul and deepening the understanding. Can I say thank you enough?
In my personal journey, I called out to God and found mysticism and yoga. Most recently I've spent time visiting a Sikh temple. But through it all, I kept relating back to the Christian tradition I grew up with. Now that I'm starting to learn more about orthodox theology, I'm happy to see that there's Christians who seem to 'get it'. All the taming of the passions and control of breath is very yoga-esque. The emphasis on names reminds me of the concept of Naam in Sikhism...that calling God's name gives you awareness of a Him and in that remembrance, you have union... It just brothers me that I know people will get offended that I mention these other traditions even as they bicker across Christian denominations. In my view tho, it's all cultural baggage and akin to fighting over which language has the correct word for water. None of them are water, the map is not the territory, but they all point to that mass of hydrogen and oxygen which sustains life. If calling it water works for you, great. If you understand agua, then use agua. The chimpish tribalism of wanting to own the path to God is really sad. Orthodox will point to Babel as an explanation. But even looking at the story and that icon, I have to wonder what makes them think their vein of understanding is any more valid than the others when they all came from the same source, ultimately?
Orthodoxy and perennialism are incompatible. A further comparative analysis of religion will reveal to you that we aren’t all pointing to the same God or saying the same thing.
Sins of Heaven is an interesting term for the right hand. At first I thought about it and it didn't make sense. But they did originate in Heaven, so they are accurately the sins of Heaven. I just thought about the distinction in terms of sky and sea instead of the sins of Heaven and Hell because using Heaven and Hell at least initially sounded like a spectrum of complete right and wrong. Where you could gauge sky and sea as up and down instead without getting into the confusion of pairing sin with heaven.
I would love to hear you discuss your thoughts on the symbolism of the tarot. For the most authentic tarot deck (with the most complete symbology) use Paul Foster Case's BOTA deck. The tarot's symbolism is used continually in hollywood, across various aspects of mainstream propaganda, and plays a major role in our collective unconscious.
Your teaching is "like a value pearl" when one find it, she (me) sell everything else (abandon other TH-cam videos) to buy that valuable pearl (sorry if I didn't get the metaphor completely right)
30:33 At the center of you, you have the capacity to enter into the grace of God. We don’t become God, we become one with God. Religion is about the transformation of the person to enter God. Religion is not about the legal/moral aspects, although that is important. If you don’t understand this, you calcify in the rules. -----------------------------------------------I hear this and it makes complete sense to me.
About traditions and invoking names we have it in Romania that the peasants in the past would try as much as possible not to pronounce “ devil “ so as not to “call him”.
@@Querymonger whether something will experience a revival or not does not make its teachings any less TRUE. The vedic teachings were always meant to be shared with those who ASKED as this is stated at the end of the Bhagavad Gita.
41:55 I see your point about naming. So are we agreed that the heart is the spoke? Or should our center be unnamed while we identify memory, invocation, etc.?
About St. Joseph in the icon of the Nativity. Could he also be considered a figure "on the border" of chaos as a protective figure? Or am I trying to apply the wrong category to him? Wonderful talk, thank you for sharing?
Anthropology of mistics*. Biology of chemistry? No. Chemistry of biology, for the same reason anthropology of mistics is correct, and anthropology of mysticism is nonsense.
37:40 “memory is about remembering things from a distance.” I see this as the most human element about us. We can maintain distance from God, but we exercise memory at any moment to instantly reconnect, recharge.
Hey Jonathan. I continue to find your work most influential. Very positive stuff. By paying close attention to the idea you present in this talk, I can see an actual criticism of Owen Benjamin or even of Jordan Peterson. That could just be me, but I do see it. (Of course, it could be seen as a criticism aimed at most all of us too ;)
Our perception is the first perception... I have thought about this a bit. So if we are to look truly look at the world scientifically we would need to remove our own perception of it. We should take the perpetuation of a mad man as well as the perception of the unconscious eles we will only subject science, scientifically to one state of mind thus not taking into count the double blind of consciousness..... Do I have it?
No Kaballah believes that the world/humans are broken vessels that the sparks cannot enter into properly. This may seem trivial buy its a massive difference.
@Caleb Fletcher he just did one for patreon where he talks about right and left hand in mystical art and I commented a bunch on how it is just like the sephirot, the crossing over of left to right and the necessity of this to climb to the next level of reality, it only costs 2-10 dollars a month to watch those and they are very informative, just letting you know😁
Yikes. You said, "At your center, you have the grace of God in you. You are in communion with God. You have the capacity to enter into the life of God." I hope you realize that if you are saying this about all men, born from above or not, you are saying that man doesn't need Jesus and are preaching something akin to Hinduism.
Joshua Anderson, I think you might be confusing the biblical idea that humans are made in the image of God with the extra-biblical idea that we all have a spark of God within us. The Bible actually says that as broken vessels we must receive Christ by faith (Rom. 3:25, NIV), and that he desires to come in and commune with us (Rev. 3:20).
This is so funny, you said to the audience that you wonder if you lost them along the way, and I am like watching you speak here on You tube dead tired at 23.45., waking up at 5.45 AM, but I am all ears and eyes wide open as much as I can still hold them like that😁 Thank you for this beautiful lecture, it really means a lot and it is very helpful to some of us😃💜
This is one of the greatest talks I’ve found on TH-cam. It was staggeringly profound
Agreed
3 years later and it still hits
One day Jonathan Pageau will be canonized as a Saint.
He may not know it yet, or see his importance.
Thank you God for sending us Jonathan Pageau.
He's a burning flame of the holy spirit in the illusion of infinite darkness that is the internet.
To remember is to become a part of something that is removed from you. You were a member, you are now separated, you must now re-member.
This is the most fascinating theological content to ever be released in the modern world.
This IS the best talk you have ever given.
This guy is killing my protestantism slowly and steady. What is remaining is to subdue my reason to God in the church and finally experience him as the churchfathers did. But im still rebeling :)
We will wait, bro! Sincerely, Your Orthodox family
@@olgakarpushina492 I am an Orthodox by now. :D
@@theangryslav9115😁 seems logical for a Slav. The next step is to stop being angry 😉
Christ is in our midst! Welcome to Orthodoxy brother.
Such an amazing talk. Thank you for helping me with understanding my faith and this life in a way that I had never known. Loved Matthieu's book as well! The Language of Creation is wonderful.
Hey Jonathan you are helping a ton of people. Thanks
Hit home with me several times over. Thank you, Jonathan, God bless.
The heart is like an onion ~ Johnatan Pageau, sharing wisdoms from our prophet Shrek who said upon ye mule ogres are like onions. Where ye mule replied "they are of the odour most foul?". "Nay thy beast of burden, for yey have layers!"
Pablo Bronstein your comment, sir... is gold... pure gold.
and lo, ye mule speaketh, "Oh, whence thou leaveth them out under ye sun, thine onions turneth brown, and sprouteth' little white hairs"
Since he's a donkey and not a mule, you should use the word 'ass'.
This is amazing. It reminds me of Kierkegaard in the Works of Love: "Love edifies by presuposing that Love is fundamentally present.
Saint Isaac The Syrian is one of my favorite saints, great to hear him quoted here, wasn't familiar with that quote before.
Thanks
Haha, a minute before Jonathan starts speaking about nous and the little wake up moments (at around 34 mins) I had exactly that and started thinking how I could hold onto it. Thanks Jonathan :)
I have no idea what some of these commenters watched but I assume they see the title “Mysticism” and wrote opinions after watching no more than a minute (or less) of this God-inspired talk.
This talk wasn't inspired...its a confusion of truth and heresy.
"Mysticism" and "anthropology" in the title are like a bait for alternate spirituality types. And many in those circles are hostile towards any form of Christianity.
@@michaele5075 Heresy, explain yourself.
Well from Xtian pov this IS heresy, as none of this is explicitly supported by the bible.
Do you even understand what John's speech was about?
Appealing both to the intellect and to our intuition/heart experience. People can find many little gems here and at least one that makes particular sense right now for them. The images are nourishing the soul and deepening the understanding. Can I say thank you enough?
You are doing God's work Jonathan! Bless you!
I like the Hagia Sophia with the cross :) You should visit the Church of St. Sava in Belgrade sometime Jonathan.
Pure Sufism. Thank you, and jazaka-llāh khayrun ("may God reward you with good").
In my personal journey, I called out to God and found mysticism and yoga. Most recently I've spent time visiting a Sikh temple. But through it all, I kept relating back to the Christian tradition I grew up with. Now that I'm starting to learn more about orthodox theology, I'm happy to see that there's Christians who seem to 'get it'.
All the taming of the passions and control of breath is very yoga-esque. The emphasis on names reminds me of the concept of Naam in Sikhism...that calling God's name gives you awareness of a Him and in that remembrance, you have union...
It just brothers me that I know people will get offended that I mention these other traditions even as they bicker across Christian denominations. In my view tho, it's all cultural baggage and akin to fighting over which language has the correct word for water. None of them are water, the map is not the territory, but they all point to that mass of hydrogen and oxygen which sustains life. If calling it water works for you, great. If you understand agua, then use agua.
The chimpish tribalism of wanting to own the path to God is really sad. Orthodox will point to Babel as an explanation. But even looking at the story and that icon, I have to wonder what makes them think their vein of understanding is any more valid than the others when they all came from the same source, ultimately?
Orthodoxy and perennialism are incompatible. A further comparative analysis of religion will reveal to you that we aren’t all pointing to the same God or saying the same thing.
Ο Χριστος μαζι σου Ιωναθαν!
There is nothing more based then starting a talk by saying "Christ is risen"
Insightful.
Sins of Heaven is an interesting term for the right hand. At first I thought about it and it didn't make sense. But they did originate in Heaven, so they are accurately the sins of Heaven. I just thought about the distinction in terms of sky and sea instead of the sins of Heaven and Hell because using Heaven and Hell at least initially sounded like a spectrum of complete right and wrong. Where you could gauge sky and sea as up and down instead without getting into the confusion of pairing sin with heaven.
Sins of Heaven and Earth would be better I think
I would love to hear you discuss your thoughts on the symbolism of the tarot. For the most authentic tarot deck (with the most complete symbology) use Paul Foster Case's BOTA deck. The tarot's symbolism is used continually in hollywood, across various aspects of mainstream propaganda, and plays a major role in our collective unconscious.
Tomberg, "Meditations on the Taror"?
Agreed! There is also a lot of symbolism in astrology that I would love to be included on this channel!
IF MAN WASN'T HERE TO PERCEIVE REALITY, DOES IT REALLY EXIST?
Your teaching is "like a value pearl" when one find it, she (me) sell everything else (abandon other TH-cam videos) to buy that valuable pearl (sorry if I didn't get the metaphor completely right)
Catholic here. Good stuff. Would love to have you join the universal Church. But you are definitely a brilliant man and a great speaker.
Orthodoxy may not be universal, yet it is simply right. Ortho= right.
30:33 At the center of you, you have the capacity to enter into the grace of God. We don’t become God, we become one with God. Religion is about the transformation of the person to enter God. Religion is not about the legal/moral aspects, although that is important. If you don’t understand this, you calcify in the rules. -----------------------------------------------I hear this and it makes complete sense to me.
Is this related to Langan's CTMU ideas? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan
34:30 thoughts are participants in my being, and I am not those thoughts. Brilliant. Thank you so much
Really interesting speech, thank you! Hope it all goes well for you.
WHATS FUNNY IS THE HEART HAS A MIND OF ITS OWN!
Amazing stuff. This really fits perfectly with my ideas I've been uncovering .
I love your work! God bless you!
Yeeeee cuh! That's that truf son!
About traditions and invoking names we have it in Romania that the peasants in the past would try as much as possible not to pronounce “ devil “ so as not to “call him”.
That divine spark is the atma and the vedic philosophies have written extensively on its quality and meaning.
You're not gonna spark a vedic hindu revival in modern USA bro, that was always for an exclusive few. Christianity on the other hand can save everyone
@@Querymonger whether something will experience a revival or not does not make its teachings any less TRUE. The vedic teachings were always meant to be shared with those who ASKED as this is stated at the end of the Bhagavad Gita.
41:55 I see your point about naming. So are we agreed that the heart is the spoke? Or should our center be unnamed while we identify memory, invocation, etc.?
About St. Joseph in the icon of the Nativity. Could he also be considered a figure "on the border" of chaos as a protective figure? Or am I trying to apply the wrong category to him?
Wonderful talk, thank you for sharing?
Anthropology of mistics*. Biology of chemistry? No. Chemistry of biology, for the same reason anthropology of mistics is correct, and anthropology of mysticism is nonsense.
37:40 “memory is about remembering things from a distance.” I see this as the most human element about us. We can maintain distance from God, but we exercise memory at any moment to instantly reconnect, recharge.
Hey Jonathan. I continue to find your work most influential. Very positive stuff. By paying close attention to the idea you present in this talk, I can see an actual criticism of Owen Benjamin or even of Jordan Peterson. That could just be me, but I do see it. (Of course, it could be seen as a criticism aimed at most all of us too ;)
Our perception is the first perception... I have thought about this a bit. So if we are to look truly look at the world scientifically we would need to remove our own perception of it. We should take the perpetuation of a mad man as well as the perception of the unconscious eles we will only subject science, scientifically to one state of mind thus not taking into count the double blind of consciousness..... Do I have it?
When are your next events?
38:55
This is basically Kabbalah.
No Kaballah believes that the world/humans are broken vessels that the sparks cannot enter into properly. This may seem trivial buy its a massive difference.
The tree of life and it’s sephiroth are pretty genius though.
@Caleb Fletcher Why not PM him?
@Caleb Fletcher he just did one for patreon where he talks about right and left hand in mystical art and I commented a bunch on how it is just like the sephirot, the crossing over of left to right and the necessity of this to climb to the next level of reality, it only costs 2-10 dollars a month to watch those and they are very informative, just letting you know😁
14:14 "The human being plays the same role in the World as the heart plays in the human being "
I'm a disgusted and despairing Roman Catholic. This guy is making me excited about the EO.
Yikes. You said, "At your center, you have the grace of God in you. You are in communion with God. You have the capacity to enter into the life of God."
I hope you realize that if you are saying this about all men, born from above or not, you are saying that man doesn't need Jesus and are preaching something akin to Hinduism.
Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
@ChristianHistory Then why did he talk about some "spark" of God in people in general? Thats gnosticism and heresy.
Michael E Jesus himself was a gnostic then.
You are tremendously mistaken. God is the source of that grace.
Joshua Anderson, I think you might be confusing the biblical idea that humans are made in the image of God with the extra-biblical idea that we all have a spark of God within us. The Bible actually says that as broken vessels we must receive Christ by faith (Rom. 3:25, NIV), and that he desires to come in and commune with us (Rev. 3:20).
Efkaristo
I love how a human brain tries to make sense of "God." Gets me everyyyytime! NOT!
The imago dei is not some "spark" of God. Wow.