Such a full sound from a relatively small scaled Diapason. Congratulations to the voicer. It doesn't have that scraping over blown string sound,, like so many builders are doing these days. Just a mellow Principle, like it should be.
The bellows need only to be lifted, one after eachother. There are two piece of lead, so they sink from themselves. The acoustic of the church of Beerta (near Groningen) is perfect, but the intonation of the organ has been done by the organmaker Winold van der Putten and me at the organfactory, in a small room.
@@aerodynamikapieroga I'm only 81 in this lifetime, but I strongly believe I had a life in that era as well. I feel a strong connection with music of that time.... Thanks for your reply.
Thanks for this - very interesting. It must have been remarkably tedious work for the blower. The tone of the organ is certainly other-wordly, helped, no doubt, by the accoustics.
This is a direct ancestor of the modern choir organ. My idea of a pump organ would use two treadle-operated supply bellows and a 61 note x 10 rank full-mechanical-action sliderchest, probably built around a 4' principal chorus and 8' flute chorus.
I love how medieval music has an ethereal sound. I believe composers back then knew more about how sound affects the brain than current historians/scientists can imagine (look up how Gregorian Chant, an ancient nearly two millennia old practice, affects alpha waves in the brain!)
That something has an effect is in no way evidence that this effect was understood when the thing was invented. Understanding of the brain and how it works is historically fairly recent.
+Isak Zachariasen I think what he meant is that medieval composers had a better idea about how music sounds to the brain. They composed based on perception rather than worrying pedantically about whether it it follows some arbitrary rules like most western classical music composers have done since the 1500s. Ever since the renaissance music theorists have pushed their views as some sort of law that must be followed, and anything in the past was considered inferior or primitive (like writing music based on modes rather than diatonic scales.) But thankfully due to the internet we have access to so much medieval and world music that it makes those theorists look stupid.
Speaking as a historian, I'm fully aware of this. And I stand by my original statement that such notions are a historical anachronism. I'm not saying classical composers were stupid. There are mountains of evidence to the contrary. But ideas of ancient wisdom lost to the aeons waiting to be discovered are, in my experience, usually unfounded.
I think Dillon, the OP, expresses/translate in his current terms what in old days was felt (no science explanations needed for feelings). Just replace the term Brain for Person. ("How sound affects people"). So, i see no anachronism here but the opposite. (Re-afirmation of current science dogma) Do we need equipment to confirm we feel the alpha waves?
In the second part when the 8' and 6' stop are pulled, you basically hear the prime tone and its upper fifth at the same time. A 6' stop is also called a fifth. Nowadays a fifth stop is written as 5 1/3. The notation 6' or 3' for a fifth stop you see on older organs. A 3' stop is the same as a 2 2/3' stop. This means you can approach this sound on modern organ when you pull an 8' stop and a 5 2/3' stop or a 4' and a 2 2/3 stop playing one octave down.
+TenorCantusFirmus . Why not? Very much is not traceable about the 14th c. organs.The only way is to make a reconstruction, like Winold van der Putten does: www.orgelmakerij.nl/
+Jankees Dus If it would have been Machaut's organ, it would be interesting to record the Messe "de Nostre Dame" with such an instrument doubling canti firmi in the movements based on them (Kÿrie, Sanctus, Agnus Dei and Ite, Missa Est) or the entire texture in appropriate sections of those "freely" composed (Gloria and Credo). After all, as only instruments allowed in Church, we have traces of organ in European Churches since the whole High Middle-Ages (that is, 1000 ca. onwards), as such they likely have been used, at least in some occasions, in combinations with Choirs also in Liturgies all this period long.
Interesting how in the second part he pulls a stop, changing the bass drone, and it sounds as a modal modulation from dorian to mixolydian (and maybe with C# to give a lydian feel). I can't believe some theorists think medieval music was boring, and keep saying this (modal modulation) did not exist in music of this period.
So this is basically larger version of the portable positiv organ? I can see how this bridges the gap from the portable organs to full size ones being somewhere in between. My guess is that the bellows disconnect and this could be easily moved from place to place.
+jukingeo Strictly speaking, this is a "Postive" a "Portative" organ is one that is carried. "Positio" - Latin -a placing (or to put in place, from "ponare") and "Portatio" - Latin -a carrying or conveying. (related to "porta" which literally means "a gate")
+Martin Hartley I am still coming to grips with all the terminology surrounding pipe organs. When I first heard the term Positiv, I thought...well is there a Negativ? LOL. Then I got to thinking positiv and portative were the same. Then another 'p' word entered the mix, pentatonic. So I have a tendencies to get my 'p's of the pipes all mixed up.
The bellows on this are hearth bellows like those used by the blacksmith as they are unreinforced & are billowing like a balloon.Proper organ bellows are of rigid construction with wooden staves or card to make the leatherwork rigid so it does not blow outwards.
I have two questions: 1. Is it in just temperament? 2. The first part was done in dorian mode. The second was a mix of mixolydian with lydian. Is that true?
1. Tuning is pythagorean after Arnout van Zwolle (ca. 1440); pure fifths, one devil (h-fis) and a-cis, h-dis, d-fis, e-gis are pure thirds. 2. It sounds like that because a fifth is added to the dorian
@@jankeesdus3204 Very beautiful piece, sounds very harmonious! This comes to show that modal music have potential too, its not just a relic of the past.
Winold van der Putten (NL) made it for the late David Rumsey (CH). The instrument is now in Linz, Austria, with Brett Leighton. Some remarks and details: www.davidrumsey.ch/amsterdam%20program.htm
I love this medieval feeling (it's the Dorian mode, am I right?). I heard that «Greensleeves» also had this medieval vibe, but then, with the advancing musical theory studies, some notes were changed.
Christian Jiang actually it's more complicated. The more "medieval" sounding version of Greensleeves was written in the late 19th Century by Ralph Vaughan Williams with the then modern world's conception of ancient music. The original was written during the Renaissance, rather than medieval, and always had the more tonal "alterations" of the standard version.
@@KennyReganThat’s super interesting! True, a lot of the “medieval” music that we hear nowadays is probably closer to what we think medieval music would sound like, than to what it actually sounds like. Where can I read more about this?
@@ChristianJiang The TH-cam channel Early Music Sources is an excellent resource for exploring late medieval and Renaissance music, and they also link further reading material on their videos!
@ChristianJiang their video on musica ficta talks about this very topic, the historical practice of performers adding sharps or flats to the scale depending on the musical context th-cam.com/video/6VF6YkCNRyE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=K_E4TGPM-GpVPp6_
The bellows are domestic hearth bellows as the leather is billowing like an overblown balloon as organ bellows are rectangular and the leather is made rigid with staves of wood to stop it billowing as these bellows could burst at any moment.Did they use hearth bellows for organs in the middle ages?
Parallel fifths everywhere, love it!
Get out the red pen!
Such a full sound from a relatively small scaled Diapason. Congratulations to the voicer. It doesn't have that scraping over blown string sound,, like so many builders are doing these days. Just a mellow Principle, like it should be.
These were the original organs. Dating back to the BC era Greek hydraulis.
Faszinierend welche Energie dieses Instrument ausstrahlt, komplett ohne Strom. So muss das Mittelalter geklungen haben.
The bellows need only to be lifted, one after eachother. There are two piece of lead, so they sink from themselves.
The acoustic of the church of Beerta (near Groningen) is perfect, but the intonation of the organ has been done by the organmaker Winold van der Putten and me at the organfactory, in a small room.
portatief they have to be synchronised. Half height at the same time rising and falling
DARK AGES WERE NOT DARK
Thank you for your video! I have been looking for a true example of a medieval positive organ for ages and know I found it.
This brings back memories.............
My goodness, how old are you?!
@@aerodynamikapieroga I'm only 81 in this lifetime, but I strongly believe I had a life in that era as well. I feel a strong connection with music of that time.... Thanks for your reply.
@highphlyer Same. It's surreal. It's almost as if I feel like I belonged in that time.
Amazing instrument - gorgeous sound!
Thanks for this - very interesting. It must have been remarkably tedious work for the blower. The tone of the organ is certainly other-wordly, helped, no doubt, by the accoustics.
i am shocked how beutiful sound it makes
More songs like these please.
This is a direct ancestor of the modern choir organ. My idea of a pump organ would use two treadle-operated supply bellows and a 61 note x 10 rank full-mechanical-action sliderchest, probably built around a 4' principal chorus and 8' flute chorus.
I love how medieval music has an ethereal sound. I believe composers back then knew more about how sound affects the brain than current historians/scientists can imagine (look up how Gregorian Chant, an ancient nearly two millennia old practice, affects alpha waves in the brain!)
If I have understood it well , this is not medieval music but improvisation ( so, nowadays ) in medieval modes.
That something has an effect is in no way evidence that this effect was understood when the thing was invented. Understanding of the brain and how it works is historically fairly recent.
+Isak Zachariasen
I think what he meant is that medieval composers had a better idea about how music sounds to the brain. They composed based on perception rather than worrying pedantically about whether it it follows some arbitrary rules like most western classical music composers have done since the 1500s. Ever since the renaissance music theorists have pushed their views as some sort of law that must be followed, and anything in the past was considered inferior or primitive (like writing music based on modes rather than diatonic scales.) But thankfully due to the internet we have access to so much medieval and world music that it makes those theorists look stupid.
Speaking as a historian, I'm fully aware of this. And I stand by my original statement that such notions are a historical anachronism. I'm not saying classical composers were stupid. There are mountains of evidence to the contrary. But ideas of ancient wisdom lost to the aeons waiting to be discovered are, in my experience, usually unfounded.
I think Dillon, the OP, expresses/translate in his current terms what in old days was felt (no science explanations needed for feelings).
Just replace the term Brain for Person. ("How sound affects people").
So, i see no anachronism here but the opposite. (Re-afirmation of current science dogma)
Do we need equipment to confirm we feel the alpha waves?
This is beautiful..
In the second part when the 8' and 6' stop are pulled, you basically hear the prime tone and its upper fifth at the same time. A 6' stop is also called a fifth. Nowadays a fifth stop is written as 5 1/3. The notation 6' or 3' for a fifth stop you see on older organs. A 3' stop is the same as a 2 2/3' stop. This means you can approach this sound on modern organ when you pull an 8' stop and a 5 2/3' stop or a 4' and a 2 2/3 stop playing one octave down.
Amazing! Thank you. Do you also have a video of the smaller organetto de Florence?
Beautiful sound.
Потрясающе!!
fantastic............
So, could something like this having been Machaut's organ in Reims?
Fascinating instrument, in every case.
+TenorCantusFirmus . Why not? Very much is not traceable about the 14th c. organs.The only way is to make a reconstruction, like Winold van der Putten does: www.orgelmakerij.nl/
+Jankees Dus If it would have been Machaut's organ, it would be interesting to record the Messe "de Nostre Dame" with such an instrument doubling canti firmi in the movements based on them (Kÿrie, Sanctus, Agnus Dei and Ite, Missa Est) or the entire texture in appropriate sections of those "freely" composed (Gloria and Credo).
After all, as only instruments allowed in Church, we have traces of organ in European Churches since the whole High Middle-Ages (that is, 1000 ca. onwards), as such they likely have been used, at least in some occasions, in combinations with Choirs also in Liturgies all this period long.
Georgous!
Interesting how in the second part he pulls a stop, changing the bass drone, and it sounds as a modal modulation from dorian to mixolydian (and maybe with C# to give a lydian feel). I can't believe some theorists think medieval music was boring, and keep saying this (modal modulation) did not exist in music of this period.
wat een warm geluid
@resultant64 .......the instrument has a bass pedal
And, this is how it is done.
Redeuntes in d (improvisation) by Jankees Braaksma
Jankees improvises using 8', then 8'+6'. (Calcant: Winold van der Putten)
Redeuntes in d (improvisation by Jankees Braaksma)
Jankees improvises using 8', then 8'+6'. (Calcant: Winold van der Putten)
So this is basically larger version of the portable positiv organ? I can see how this bridges the gap from the portable organs to full size ones being somewhere in between. My guess is that the bellows disconnect and this could be easily moved from place to place.
Yes it is a big positive organ. Transporting is done a lot with this instrument.
+jukingeo Strictly speaking, this is a "Postive" a "Portative" organ is one that is carried. "Positio" - Latin -a placing (or to put in place, from "ponare") and "Portatio" - Latin -a carrying or conveying. (related to "porta" which literally means "a gate")
+Martin Hartley I am still coming to grips with all the terminology surrounding pipe organs. When I first heard the term Positiv, I thought...well is there a Negativ? LOL. Then I got to thinking positiv and portative were the same. Then another 'p' word entered the mix, pentatonic. So I have a tendencies to get my 'p's of the pipes all mixed up.
The bellows on this are hearth bellows like those used by the blacksmith as they are unreinforced & are billowing like a balloon.Proper organ bellows are of rigid construction with wooden staves or card to make the leatherwork rigid so it does not blow outwards.
Pueden ser breves momentos
Erg mooi
I have two questions: 1. Is it in just temperament? 2. The first part was done in dorian mode. The second was a mix of mixolydian with lydian. Is that true?
1. Tuning is pythagorean after Arnout van Zwolle (ca. 1440); pure fifths, one devil (h-fis) and a-cis, h-dis, d-fis, e-gis are pure thirds. 2. It sounds like that because a fifth is added to the dorian
@@jankeesdus3204 Very beautiful piece, sounds very harmonious! This comes to show that modal music have potential too, its not just a relic of the past.
This might be a stupid question but was this organ made by some company or was this homemade, or is this actually and antique organ?
Winold van der Putten (NL) made it for the late David Rumsey (CH). The instrument is now in Linz, Austria, with Brett Leighton. Some remarks and details: www.davidrumsey.ch/amsterdam%20program.htm
Does anyone know who made that organ?
I made it. Winold van der Putten.
mooi
Ja, een nieuw oud geluid, zou je kunnen zeggen
I love this medieval feeling (it's the Dorian mode, am I right?). I heard that «Greensleeves» also had this medieval vibe, but then, with the advancing musical theory studies, some notes were changed.
Christian Jiang actually it's more complicated. The more "medieval" sounding version of Greensleeves was written in the late 19th Century by Ralph Vaughan Williams with the then modern world's conception of ancient music. The original was written during the Renaissance, rather than medieval, and always had the more tonal "alterations" of the standard version.
@@KennyReganThat’s super interesting! True, a lot of the “medieval” music that we hear nowadays is probably closer to what we think medieval music would sound like, than to what it actually sounds like. Where can I read more about this?
@@ChristianJiang The TH-cam channel Early Music Sources is an excellent resource for exploring late medieval and Renaissance music, and they also link further reading material on their videos!
@ChristianJiang their video on musica ficta talks about this very topic, the historical practice of performers adding sharps or flats to the scale depending on the musical context th-cam.com/video/6VF6YkCNRyE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=K_E4TGPM-GpVPp6_
@@KennyRegan Thank you for answering so quickly, despite yours truly having taken 6 years to get back to you! :)
Pero pasado...
Whats exactly the name of this medieval music piece?
Improvisation in d.
NUR WUNDERBAR!!!
nice tone... a bass pedal stop would be good
that's the beginning of copperhead road. hahaha
😃
Made by Organbuilder Winold van der Putten. See: orgelmakerij.nl
Made for: David Rumsey (CH) See: davidrumsey.ch/Medieval.php
The bellows are domestic hearth bellows as the leather is billowing like an overblown balloon as organ bellows are rectangular and the leather is made rigid with staves of wood to stop it billowing as these bellows could burst at any moment.Did they use hearth bellows for organs in the middle ages?
The minimal music generation
I am!
@@jankeesdus3204 Me too.