Why do so much guessing with 3rd party apps? Just look at the CPU frame time and the GPU frame time from the built in counters. The one with the higher frame time is the bottleneck.
Hello, CPU use in Xplane12 is definitely less efficient than MSFS: I get indication that Xplane uses 30%; in MSFS-80-90%(which performs better). Built in FPS counter in Xplane indicates a CPU being the bottleneck. My wonder: you can't say I am slow when driving a supercar just because you only go to the second gear ;)
@@NielsC68 No it isn't CPU. My CPU timings are way higher with XP12 and thats with a 10700k which is no slouch. MSFS with DX12 beta fully utilizes my GPU in every scenario! Waiting to see what XP12 will bring a year from now!
I really wish Austin and his team would look into parallelization. I know it can be done because I routinely optimized code to use multiple threads as a software developer before I retired. It's not "hard" per se. It simply requires attention to detail and keeping in mind how threads work best. I've considered contacting him and offering my services, but... I'm retired. I'm not looking for a second career.
He has and does. But multithreading in games is hard. Threads can run in parallel if the tasks are independent of each other, but in gaming physics, a lot of calculation depends on previously calculated values. One thread cannot calculate a value before the input values have been calculated. Think of it like a project gantt chart for a building project. You cannot architect, design, manufacture, assemble and paint at the same time...they have to go in sequence. There are elements within those stages that can run parallel but a the main flow is sequential.
@@chowhar Say you have a million calculations to compute, over and over, in a simulation. It could be 3D points to 2D screen positions, or lighting calculations, or whatever. The point is you have a lot of calculation to do, and not every calculation depends on every other calculation. There is a degree of independence. You could use one thread to compute it all in sequential fashion. Or you could, say, use four threads, with each thread working on every fourth calculation in an interleaved fashion. This would add some overhead, so it probably won't be four times faster, but you could get close. You can even do this in a pipeline, with multiple stages, with distinct thread pools working on different stages of the pipeline. I know because the last ten years of my career, I was responsible for coding and maintaining a couple of realtime graphical applications which did just that in a scientific/engineering setting. Threads do not have to work on independent tasks in a pipeline. They can be coded to work on the same tasks, at the same time, in a pipeline, or even multiple stages in a pipeline. Threads are extremely flexible, even in a sequential calculation setting. The key is to find where bulk calculations are independent from one another and strategically throw threads at those.
Great video, but a little lost. I’ve always been told to run my GPU at 98-99% or else I’m leaving performance on the table. But I’ll take a look at my CPU as well to make sure I don’t have multiple bottlenecks. I already know I have one with my 60hz TV I play on, hopefully upgrading that soon.
Michael, can you please give us your suggestions on how to properly configure the Nvidia control panel on XPL12; to give some more fps without killing the graphics too much.?
My biggest problem with XP12 is stuttering. I did not have that problem with XP11 -- I mean, I used to, then found a way (that I do not remember how) to resolve it. Given my setup stuttering should not even be a thing. It is so bad, I am actually using MSFS, which I hate, but beginning to like. I doubt that Austin & Co would care, being that I already paid for XP12.
There´s a way to avoid blurry textures, I have only 4gb graphic card, I don´t need FPS for now only to make some screencaps with good quality and without bluried textures. thanks in advance
I am not buying Xp12 until the performance issue is solved. The demo doesn't run smoothly even on my top end pc. They still use code that is 2 decades old. Xp12 should have been a brand new simulator designed for 16+ core CPUs.
If you're a real pilot and like Xplane 12 to use it for extra training purposes and fun. Don't buy it. If you're a skilled ICT person and lik to tweak your PC and game. Then go for IT!.
Do you have any update about 5800x3d in xPlane12 because i upgraded from 3500x and my fps increase from ~20fps to 30-35fps (5 monitors setup) and it seems to extra L3 helps because 10% higher clock speed ~20% IPC improvement from zen2 to zen3, and it seems extra L3 memory gives another ~20%.
Michael, on the video you did with Austin and those helicopter controls you somehow were getting 90fps (according to Austin) on triple TVs? How is that possible? Even top-end hardware can barely manage that on a single screen. I literally cannot run triple screens with my AMD 5800x3d and RTX 3080 Ti. Framerate goes below 20 in some locations
Nothing to do with any bottleneck issues: (1) Is it possible to use 2 VR headsets for a ride-along? (2) Could I have myself as pilot, and someone else as RIO in an F-14, both with VR goggles, both able to "look" where they wanted independent of the other, without using 2 computers like you did 4 years ago, with 2 sets of VR goggles using 2 computers?
Gostaria muito de saber como ter um imersão no Flight simulator, xplane 11 e 12 com óculos VR. Mas não àqueles óculos de 3 k ou maís.. coisa simples até 400 k. Só pra ter uma imersão melhor. Se um dia puder fazer um vídeo nesse sentido lhe agradeço.Se puder fazer um vídeo falando sobre Óculos VR de baixo custo lhe agradeço de coração. Forte abraço.. Itamar de São Paulo
Ryzen 5 3600X RX5700, XP12 all settings to high on the "left side" and all to low on the right. (well, the right side made very little difference, high or low, I tried them both)... CPU usage (all cores around 10-15%, GPU usage around 65%, 8-12 FPS. 64GB RAM, operating off an M2 1TB drive, so I don't see latency being caused from that.... What gives?
I’m very disappointed with xplane . I just bought a $4000 PC , 4090 24 gb VRAM 64 ram . Intel 9-14 generation and it rams out of vram , and is impossible to fly . What can I do .
@@xforcepc yes , I had a 3070 8 gb vram , i7-11 gen , 32 ram . And it was a nightmare, so I tried buying a better one . And now works perfect the first few minutes . But then utilizes 21 gb of the 24 vram and drops all the way down to 6 fpm. After having at least 30. I’m using 3 screens 1080 and 1 screen 2k
that's a very good (or bad) point: I've been fighting for months trying to improve my Quest 2 performance using my well equipped PC (i5 13600k, 32GB, 4070 GPU), no way to get sufficient enough quality, I'd say almost unplayable
Sorry for the question, since you were so thorough, but, which is your bottleneck: your CPU or GPU? You changed settings and your bottleneck appeared to be your CPU and then setting them back made your GPU the bottleneck. I'm clearly confused. Thanks.
Both! He was changing the bottleneck by altering settings. That was the point. You can optimise your performance by changing the GPU-centeic and CPU-centric options. The ideal place to be is where the GPU is highly utilised and so is a single CPU core. If you aren't then performance is being left on the table.
There is always a bottleneck when you run a program on your PC. If there is no CPU, Memory, Storage, etc.. bottleneck, GPU will always be at 99%, it's basically full GPU utilization, unless you force GPU to wait for something... example VSync which waits for frame to sync with your monitors refresh rate but then again that means you are bottlenecked by your monitor ;)
At the moment xplane is in a sad state with regards to performance. Whatever is being used as the graphics engine needs to change because it really doesn't matter if you have a monster pc it stutters, FPS is inconsistent, blurry textures associated with poor performance. If you compare it to the absolutely butter-smooth performance of MSFS at ultra settings it's completely clunky
Can someone with a 6950xt/6900xt tell me what the performance is like at 4k , I have a 3080 I've had for 2+ years I got at RRP however in on the edge with vram being 9.3 GB , if it performs similar to 3080 I will sell my 3080 and get a brand-new 6950xt for £750
According to some sources including the channel this video is from, there are far more bugs and crashes with the AMD GPUs with Vulcan. I was going to also obtain the same as you but after researching I wouldn't just yet until these issues are resolved - assuming they are.....
On my system (i5 9600k) MSFS is not single-threaded. All six of my cores running above 75% with the Fenix and PMDG. With the Fenix I get above 90% utilization on all six cores. And in spite of that, my sim is running as smooth as silk.
He's referring to the actual game which is single threaded (the main game loop runs on a single CPU), I assure you that. The other CPUs might be utilized by the aircraft's systems by Fenix or PMDG.
🤔 really, Xplane is bottle necking with that CPU spec and a RTX3080 GPU, wow. All flightsims on the market today could benefit from propper CPU opermization changes. Then people's systems could keep using their older Intel I5, I7 or AMD 5 and 7 CPU's. Which is a Real shame, that this isn't a priority, for programmer and devs, during the current silicon shortage.
If it was that easy they would have done it. With what is going into these highly complex and demanding programs, I5s etc aren't going to cut it I'm afraid now matter how many times the word "optimise" is written.
hey Im using XP 12 and I have a GTX1660 with i5 9400f and 16GB RAM in game I have a problem in task manager my game is 0.3% GPU but 70-80 % CPU power using anyone knw how to fix it!! No matter what I do it always use high CPU and almost no GPU T-T. {settings dont matter always use GPU max all use 1.6-3.6% GPU load}🥲🥲🥲
Why do so much guessing with 3rd party apps? Just look at the CPU frame time and the GPU frame time from the built in counters. The one with the higher frame time is the bottleneck.
Hello,
CPU use in Xplane12 is definitely less efficient than MSFS: I get indication that Xplane uses 30%; in MSFS-80-90%(which performs better). Built in FPS counter in Xplane indicates a CPU being the bottleneck. My wonder: you can't say I am slow when driving a supercar just because you only go to the second gear ;)
X-Plane 12 is more GPU bound.
@@NielsC68 No it isn't CPU. My CPU timings are way higher with XP12 and thats with a 10700k which is no slouch. MSFS with DX12 beta fully utilizes my GPU in every scenario! Waiting to see what XP12 will bring a year from now!
@@caribbaviator7058more than a year on and it's a steaming pile of dog shite
This was a really useful. Thanks!
I really wish Austin and his team would look into parallelization. I know it can be done because I routinely optimized code to use multiple threads as a software developer before I retired. It's not "hard" per se. It simply requires attention to detail and keeping in mind how threads work best. I've considered contacting him and offering my services, but... I'm retired. I'm not looking for a second career.
He has and does. But multithreading in games is hard. Threads can run in parallel if the tasks are independent of each other, but in gaming physics, a lot of calculation depends on previously calculated values. One thread cannot calculate a value before the input values have been calculated. Think of it like a project gantt chart for a building project. You cannot architect, design, manufacture, assemble and paint at the same time...they have to go in sequence. There are elements within those stages that can run parallel but a the main flow is sequential.
@@chowhar Say you have a million calculations to compute, over and over, in a simulation. It could be 3D points to 2D screen positions, or lighting calculations, or whatever. The point is you have a lot of calculation to do, and not every calculation depends on every other calculation. There is a degree of independence. You could use one thread to compute it all in sequential fashion. Or you could, say, use four threads, with each thread working on every fourth calculation in an interleaved fashion. This would add some overhead, so it probably won't be four times faster, but you could get close. You can even do this in a pipeline, with multiple stages, with distinct thread pools working on different stages of the pipeline. I know because the last ten years of my career, I was responsible for coding and maintaining a couple of realtime graphical applications which did just that in a scientific/engineering setting. Threads do not have to work on independent tasks in a pipeline. They can be coded to work on the same tasks, at the same time, in a pipeline, or even multiple stages in a pipeline. Threads are extremely flexible, even in a sequential calculation setting. The key is to find where bulk calculations are independent from one another and strategically throw threads at those.
at this point we need one of them quantum computer to run our sims🤣
Great video, but a little lost. I’ve always been told to run my GPU at 98-99% or else I’m leaving performance on the table. But I’ll take a look at my CPU as well to make sure I don’t have multiple bottlenecks. I already know I have one with my 60hz TV I play on, hopefully upgrading that soon.
Michael, can you please give us your suggestions on how to properly configure the Nvidia control panel on XPL12; to give some more fps without killing the graphics too much.?
My biggest problem with XP12 is stuttering. I did not have that problem with XP11 -- I mean, I used to, then found a way (that I do not remember how) to resolve it. Given my setup stuttering should not even be a thing. It is so bad, I am actually using MSFS, which I hate, but beginning to like. I doubt that Austin & Co would care, being that I already paid for XP12.
They will care if I don't buy XP12 because of your comment.
Yeah, I have a powerful system and VR is unplayable. Good thing I tried the free demo before buying. They'll get it sorted out eventually.
maybe switch the renderers? opengl/vulcan/DX (idk)
Well x-plane itself is the bottleneck...
There´s a way to avoid blurry textures, I have only 4gb graphic card, I don´t need FPS for now only to make some screencaps with good quality and without bluried textures. thanks in advance
How do you avoid it?
*Determining the bottleneck in X-Plane 11
Xp12 cockpits R dark, compared to Xp11. Cockpit lights in Xp12 go dim and bright automatically! this needs to B fixed.
I am not buying Xp12 until the performance issue is solved. The demo doesn't run smoothly even on my top end pc. They still use code that is 2 decades old. Xp12 should have been a brand new simulator designed for 16+ core CPUs.
And I suspect if they had done that, the license cost would have been $500 and taken another 5 years or more to write.
If you're a real pilot and like Xplane 12 to use it for extra training purposes and fun. Don't buy it. If you're a skilled ICT person and lik to tweak your PC and game. Then go for IT!.
So it would make sense in your case to upgrade from your 3080 to a 4080 I guess ? A lot of performance gains do you think ?
Do you have any update about 5800x3d in xPlane12 because i upgraded from 3500x and my fps increase from ~20fps to 30-35fps (5 monitors setup) and it seems to extra L3 helps because 10% higher clock speed ~20% IPC improvement from zen2 to zen3, and it seems extra L3 memory gives another ~20%.
Useful information. Thank you!
I also love building pcs and xplane
Michael, on the video you did with Austin and those helicopter controls you somehow were getting 90fps (according to Austin) on triple TVs? How is that possible? Even top-end hardware can barely manage that on a single screen. I literally cannot run triple screens with my AMD 5800x3d and RTX 3080 Ti. Framerate goes below 20 in some locations
this >>>>
I second this question. Was it multiple PC's?
Nothing to do with any bottleneck issues: (1) Is it possible to use 2 VR headsets for a ride-along? (2) Could I have myself as pilot, and someone else as RIO in an F-14, both with VR goggles, both able to "look" where they wanted independent of the other, without using 2 computers like you did 4 years ago, with 2 sets of VR goggles using 2 computers?
No way to use two without using two machines that I know of.
Gostaria muito de saber como ter um imersão no Flight simulator, xplane 11 e 12 com óculos VR. Mas não àqueles óculos de 3 k ou maís.. coisa simples até 400 k. Só pra ter uma imersão melhor. Se um dia puder fazer um vídeo nesse sentido lhe agradeço.Se puder fazer um vídeo falando sobre Óculos VR de baixo custo lhe agradeço de coração. Forte abraço.. Itamar de São Paulo
Ryzen 5 3600X RX5700, XP12 all settings to high on the "left side" and all to low on the right. (well, the right side made very little difference, high or low, I tried them both)... CPU usage (all cores around 10-15%, GPU usage around 65%, 8-12 FPS. 64GB RAM, operating off an M2 1TB drive, so I don't see latency being caused from that.... What gives?
If you want a huge improvement, update your BIOS and put in the 5800X3D.
Any thing similar for Mac?
I’m very disappointed with xplane . I just bought a $4000 PC , 4090 24 gb VRAM 64 ram . Intel 9-14 generation and it rams out of vram , and is impossible to fly . What can I do .
Out of VRAM? Never seen that before...not even close.
@@xforcepc yes , I had a 3070 8 gb vram , i7-11 gen , 32 ram . And it was a nightmare, so I tried buying a better one . And now works perfect the first few minutes . But then utilizes 21 gb of the 24 vram and drops all the way down to 6 fpm. After having at least 30. I’m using 3 screens 1080 and 1 screen 2k
New X-Plane doesn't seem to like my 4GB 3050 laptop GPU
@Stinkmeaner V unfortunately, its a straight 3050 laptop gpu
the game engine is the bottleneck
Why does the antialiasing make vr performance so terrible with a rtx4090.
that's a very good (or bad) point: I've been fighting for months trying to improve my Quest 2 performance using my well equipped PC (i5 13600k, 32GB, 4070 GPU), no way to get sufficient enough quality, I'd say almost unplayable
@@Carlo-f1e yh, xplane VR is terrible right now, with my reverb.
Sorry for the question, since you were so thorough, but, which is your bottleneck: your CPU or GPU? You changed settings and your bottleneck appeared to be your CPU and then setting them back made your GPU the bottleneck. I'm clearly confused. Thanks.
Both! He was changing the bottleneck by altering settings. That was the point. You can optimise your performance by changing the GPU-centeic and CPU-centric options. The ideal place to be is where the GPU is highly utilised and so is a single CPU core. If you aren't then performance is being left on the table.
Does there always have to be a bottleneck? I don’t think so. Both GPU and CPU can be less than 99% if the graphics and calculations aren’t that hard.
There is always a bottleneck when you run a program on your PC. If there is no CPU, Memory, Storage, etc.. bottleneck, GPU will always be at 99%, it's basically full GPU utilization, unless you force GPU to wait for something... example VSync which waits for frame to sync with your monitors refresh rate but then again that means you are bottlenecked by your monitor ;)
@@XPACT3 what's the bottle neck when you ask a computer to add 2 + 2?
At the moment xplane is in a sad state with regards to performance. Whatever is being used as the graphics engine needs to change because it really doesn't matter if you have a monster pc it stutters, FPS is inconsistent, blurry textures associated with poor performance. If you compare it to the absolutely butter-smooth performance of MSFS at ultra settings it's completely clunky
Can someone with a 6950xt/6900xt tell me what the performance is like at 4k , I have a 3080 I've had for 2+ years I got at RRP however in on the edge with vram being 9.3 GB , if it performs similar to 3080 I will sell my 3080 and get a brand-new 6950xt for £750
According to some sources including the channel this video is from, there are far more bugs and crashes with the AMD GPUs with Vulcan. I was going to also obtain the same as you but after researching I wouldn't just yet until these issues are resolved - assuming they are.....
On my system (i5 9600k) MSFS is not single-threaded. All six of my cores running above 75% with the Fenix and PMDG. With the Fenix I get above 90% utilization on all six cores. And in spite of that, my sim is running as smooth as silk.
He's referring to the actual game which is single threaded (the main game loop runs on a single CPU), I assure you that. The other CPUs might be utilized by the aircraft's systems by Fenix or PMDG.
🤔 really, Xplane is bottle necking with that CPU spec and a RTX3080 GPU, wow.
All flightsims on the market today could benefit from propper CPU opermization changes. Then people's systems could keep using their older Intel I5, I7 or AMD 5 and 7 CPU's. Which is a Real shame, that this isn't a priority, for programmer and devs, during the current silicon shortage.
If it was that easy they would have done it. With what is going into these highly complex and demanding programs, I5s etc aren't going to cut it I'm afraid now matter how many times the word "optimise" is written.
hey Im using XP 12 and I have a GTX1660 with i5 9400f and 16GB RAM in game I have a problem in task manager my game is 0.3% GPU but 70-80 % CPU power using anyone knw how to fix it!! No matter what I do it always use high CPU and almost no GPU T-T. {settings dont matter always use GPU max all use 1.6-3.6% GPU load}🥲🥲🥲