"secret of making tanks was lost" sounds super dumb. if they can maintain, repair and operate the things, figuring out how to make more, even if inferior versions, would be a natural next step.
truemisto To reverse-engineer a Steam Tank, they would need to dismantle one of the handful remaining ones and still wouldn't necessarily figure out how to make it work.
Reverse engineering is often more difficult then engineering the thing from scratch. There are many thing from even 50 years ago that we don't have a clue as to make since the molds, blueprints are no longer there and reverse engineering the item is often costly and takes years. Its why repairing fifty year old trains is more expensive then buying a new one.
Apparently, in the newer lore, the Empire figured out how to build more of a single, more successful variant of the Steam Tanks. The issue is that building these things take alot of time, manpower and steel and their factories are, well, pretty shite. So, they never got around to mass-production of Steam Tanks.
It's interesting that in human history some of our greatest technological achievements have been driven by intense warfare or hardship (the atom bomb, jet aircraft etc.). We were forced to innovate under duress, the fact that the dwarves fell back on tried and true methods increases the difference between them and humans.
PapaZoulou you could argue that the Dwarves are slowly abandoning thier conservative personality with thier use of devices like the Cannon and even units like the Thunderers and even the engineering guild is making new things all the time (or was if you want to count the whole age of sigmar thing) The Chaos Dwarves though are defintely more innovative of the two
MrCommander1993 A lot of the great human discoveries were actually ment for the greater good. When the idea of splitting the atom was first conceived it was not followed with: let's make a bomb out of it but with: how can we use this to benefit people. The people inventing technology often have the good of mankind or profit in mind. Or both of course. Military purpose often comes later. Not allways of course. One of the major exceptions for example is the internet. Originally designed as an alternate way of communication within an army it quickly became popular in the civilian sectors. One of the best examples is propably the steam engine. The first proper machine to replace human and animal labor. It was used almost exclusivly for transport or in factories/mines and it would take years before it was placed on warships.
Dutch Thats actually very true. Although war spurred faster advances and pushed them in specific directions, some of the most important ideas/killer apps just happened. The printing press, germ theory of disease, and as you said the steam engine happened because someone just had a good idea and the will to implement it.Thus I maintain that in general fantasy settings, humanity and similar races are just less intelligent than reality. (seriously song of ice and fire remains middle ages level of tech for something like 10000 years, thats longer than recorded human history lol.)
The jet engine would've been developed anyway. We don't really have another peaceful sentient species to compare two to really test these Assertions. Think of all the things that we could never have done without cooperation, The international space station for instance!
man,now all i'm thinking about is a dwarf in a business suit selling a human a steam car."this baby can get to 50 in 5 seconds.women would want to be with you!men would want to be you!Orcs will want to beat you!".glorious! I also hope if they have naval battles,they are just auto resolved.imagine you are a dark elf,and you get your BIG ASS castle boats,stuck on a little dark elf boat,and then the enemy proceed to ram your sides,hoping to sink a HUGE CASTLE THAT FLOATS.
Well it could be quite amusing to watch Orks trying to take on Empire galleys and Dwarven ironclads with rafts and their doggy paddle. Less amusing for the Orks...
id imagine the Orks would try breaking through the Dwarven ironclads by hurling as many insults as possible at it,while lobbing goblins at its broadsides,and beating each other to a pulp to see who boards first....
SirHeroknight I love how they make brilliant designs and in the end they ask themselves "Hmm what should we arm it with" and the answer tends to always be "A cannon!" xD
So if dwarves followed the human Industrial Revolution they could be mowing down Chaos warriors with machine guns. (Just imagine a unit of Thunderers but with Tommy guns instead of muskets)
The Crimson Fucker (puffs on a cigar)*i bring you's inta my hold,give ya good ale and food offa my table,and what do ya's repay me with?,nothin...nothin but a daughter with a broken heart and a new grandson that ain't never gonna know his pop.when I'm tru wit you,not even a daemonette'll deign to look you in the eye*(takes puff of cigar,blows smoke)*you'll make nurgle look like a five class stud in comparison*
the reason that Europe took longer to make handguns and cannons the real future was 1. salt peter was hard to find, they originally had to import it from the East. but once they discovered they could boil down animal droppings to get salt peter more readily, gun powder became cheaper. 2. the Europeans also were just starting to figure out how to cast iron into gunpowder firing weapons. 3. you are right on the fact...its. black. powder. one spark-BOOM: Too much water, fizz. Match cord not hot enough, or not enough powder in pan, flash in the pan!!
Yup, Black powder is quite shit indeed. Simple enough to make at home (sulfur might be a problem, but saltpeter is quite cheap, and charcoal? EZ) but it's soooo unstable I'm not that worried about makeshift bombs blowing every day. And it's not THAT easy to make either...
i would love to see the empire making it to an industrial revolution and then seeing how an orc invasion would go. orcs vs steel breech loaded artillery. :D
theres also the Skavens, they make loads of stuff. doomwheels for example and atomic bomb in some fluff.ancient khemri hade air ships and the living statues. not to mention. Lizard men has freaking laser weapons. kroq-gar has his golden gauntlet that fires beams of seering light. the engine of the gods,, the bastilodon sun stone thing. i mean they cant make them annymore but they have it and later space fareing domed bio domes
To be honest most of Warhammer doesn't make sense. I mean take the armor for one. The shoulder pads most people wear, along with the general layout of the armor would inhibit most movement. Furthermore, the Chaos wastes should be far too barren to facilitate the massive hords of mostly human warriors that pour out of them during major invasions.
This is why i love Dwarves, no magic means they have to rely on something else to match their challenges. Runes could easily allow them to make many powerful machines, gyrocopters for example could have runes of lightness inscribed on them, make them light enough and they'll fly. Runes of Fire could power steam engines too. Plus everything they do practically demands advancement, mining and construction is so much engineering and math, not to mention alchemy. They're like the highschool quarterbacks mixed with the nerds, with beards! Right now their mix of physical power, runic magic, and technology is probably a good enough balance for them to not really need to advance too much more, its not like they want to conquer the world. I often hate technological portrayals in fantasy settings, but love it when its reasonably done as it is here. Unlike saaaaay World of Warcraft or Rift online or Guild Wars 2.. Where they may as well all fly spaceships and ride mech warriors into cyber battles, except its all made from wood and powered by coal..
Cool video and interesting reasons. However, I would still be suspicious of the 'technological standstill' conclusion that the WHFB setting apparently draws. Modern ground-based military technology has evolved (in a simplified sense) from the increase in firepower of the common infantryman, and the need to counter it. In the case of Empire and Dwarfs, it is just too unbelievable that the Empire would not eventually figure out how to make improvements to their weapons. The next step up from the musket is the breech-loading rifle. This innovation is what - by itself - allowed Prussia to crush Austria, just because of this single tech. Basically, it can be reloaded MUCH faster than a musket, and the firer does not need to be standing to do so. I would imagine that both Empire and Dwarfs would try their best to help their guns shoot faster. And on the tabletop? This would equate to Empire handgunners suddenly firing three times as fast as before. That would bring some changes in doctrine with it, and of course, breech-loading guns are a stepping stone to actual repeater rifles and semi-automatic weaponry. I suppose it is questionable that the Empire would really reach the required level of technology for such development - so that is what makes it impossible. Still, with a bit of industrial development, the Empire could quickly grow to match mid-19th-century Prussia.
Not to mention the most plausible reason for potential innovation in the warhammer universe: the desire for quicker, simpler, cheaper production. Or hell, even just weapons that take less skill or don't require throwing troops into a meatgrinder; that also quickly leads to a nigh exponential growth rate in that scenario. Let's say that the empire can't develop precision parts yet, or interchangeable parts, because of a lack of proper measurement standardization, metal quality, etc. They could still easily develop steam or water powered workshops with overhead rotary power delivered to each workstation by a rotating shaft, which could then be used on any number of powered tools. Or hell, even a basic line of manufacture which was not unknown in our medieval period; every step in the process to make a sword for instance was done by seperate specialist people/ guilds. They could make it all cheaper and easier by the use of magic, too; guy is in charge of the furnace with fire magic, and to save time on sharpening all of the weapons there's an area effect spell for that too.
Marshal_Grey ehhhhhh i hesitate to call what they do to technology, its more magic really as they use warpstone for all kinds of things like power sources, focus lenses, explosives etc
Arch Warhammer but you did called Chaos Dwarfs 'the main force of technological innovation' and a lot of things they don't just use a magical resource, they are just magic. Additionally, in the context of WHF world, using warpstone is, IMO not that different from using coal or oil.
i feel like games workshop dropped the ball with the dwarves and especially with the chaos dwarves. i was hoping to see more tech inovations from the dwarves. and a few more special chaos dwarf units and seige equipment would be great. not to mention how the completely phased dwarves out of 40 k.they could have been some seriously tanky units :'(
wilhelmrk the 40k dwarves or squats were eaten by Tyranids and unless thier was a secret stronghold somewhere full of squats, thier race is near extinction and is unfortuneatly canon :(
Ah I forgot that it was Tyrannids and not Chaos, sorry about the misinformation but yeah, in technicality you still can play "Dwarves" in 40K but they basically play under the rules of Imperial Guard, only that they have more strenght per unit and less movibility.Castlerea 12
Castlerea 12 that was my whole point was that games workshop killed them off..... wasting the potential. so i fail to see the point in either of your comments.
I have to correct you on Rome. They didn't win thanks to technologie, far from it, celts had way better craftsman, swords and chainmail at the time where they confronted the romans. They had superior military tactics and formation, fighting more like a military machine as the more "glory in battle is mine" stance that celts mostly used. and even so, romans won mostly because of their lack of unity and organisation rather then only fighting power. Technologie rarely won, just change in etablished rules. Alexander beat the Persian with a more active using of cavalery and making pikes slightly longer then usually (the sarissa) per exemple
Considering the fact that Rome also stole other ideas and incorpated them as their own, while they did have some great achievements like the Aqueducts, they weren't as advanced as people thought they were
Dazooe J you thinking about marian legionnaries, who had this armor only way after the wars with greeks and carthaginians. And those armors where nothing special, just easy to mass manufacture out of cheap steel. A good chainmail was better in any way. Just more expensive. As arch said in this video, it's often more a matter of price and of how many you could muster in the less time. While Celtic chainmail offered better protection, they had way less of it.
I would think the reason why technological advances in a fantasy setting like Warhammer would probably be because of magic, or magic in the form of miracles. Would you, or too anyone who is still watching this video it's so late in, consider magic the reason why technological advancement is so slow?
Warlords Battlecry is an old RTS i like, RPG/RTS hybrid actually. The only RTS i can think of that has Dark Dwarves in it, and they're pretty awesome. Few in number and 'cowardly' compared to regular dwarves, the only dwarf unit in their retinue is the builder, everything else is a golem or a siege weapon such as the Hellbore Lightning cannon, and the flame cannon.
The reason why tanks weren't effective in the Warhammer world is because they weren't used correctly. The advent of tanks came about in world war one, and the cover it provided for charging infantry paired with the mounted cannons allowed for effective piercing of the enemy trench lines, which had previously been a suicide mission.
There a couple of disagreement I have with this video. But first something else: the reason that historical Europe didn't develop gunpowder earlier is simple. Before the Enlightenment, there was basically only "random" inventions and not a organize effort to improve technology. A medieval lord had not a research budget nor did his scholars had set goals to figure out XY or improve this that. Since mankind stared, to organize it's quest for knowledge more, mankind started to learn a lot faster. I disagree with the empire not being inventive. Hellblaster are tricky machines and so are the advance guns of the Empire. Also let's not forget a small little event in 2521: here the humans and dwarfs face each other with they most advance and most crazy inventions. Things like "flying mechanical angels" to show that the Empire advances, even thou those things didn't translate into the armybooks. Still wondering what abilities a Technicus may have in TW Warhammer. Also let's not forget a aspect of Warhammer Technology: they can mix Technology and maigc, which also open the doors for more designs.
Si Wi the fact that "nothing got invented during the middle ages" is more of Enlightenment propaganda actually. They had lots of progress too, just not much in mentality.
cranederoc Oh i didn't mean to implie that there was no progress and I think I'm quite aware of the problems of the enlightenment (as creating the suppose dark medieval times). But the progress was more base on individual curiosity and random events. Unlike modern science which "produce" knowledge almost factory wise.
Si Wi Yeah, in reality a whole lot of the "technology" they use is practically impossible. What made flight possible for us was the internal combustion engine. Water is too heavy for a steam engine to be of much use on any sort of aircraft. It works on trains and boats because weight isn't as much of a factor. Imagine how much water and fuel the steam tank needs to move at all, I do not envy those water boys.
hey I gotta ask what exists in the Warhammer fantasy? I mean what do they have that we have. like indoor plumbing and or chocolate for example. trying to write a fanfic for fantasy and I don't know the lore enough for and exact estimate. also how does the world's currency works?
Back when i was a younger teenager i used to play warhammer fantasy (wanted to get back into it and do Brettonians, then found out what age of sigmar was and that they were gone, ahhh) i had a huge empire army back then, complete with metal steam tank. That tank was the bane of my life, it would fall apart in my case every time i transported it to a game. I know the plastic one came out, and might just get one. Another model i saw and wanted was the plastic Karl Franz model, and that damn model was discontinued too, ffs
Great video arch, just wanted to leave one little tid bit here for ya.... They had pigeon bombs, ridiculous right?....We had dogs for a while....bats too...fun fact
Bats however do not return to the sender. They roost hence if you put bombs and release them they go to a structure if in a city environment. Dogs are trained to go somewhere. The dog bomb was for tanks. Problem was the dogs got confused as to which tanks to go to.
@@toomanyaccounts If I remember correctly the Russians trained dogs to blow up tanks in WW2 however they mainly trained with Russian tanks (as those are what they had access to). That combined that the Germans of course tried to shoot them made the dogs run back into their own lines, making them rather inefficient.
And by "war to be won" we don't always mean it literally is a shooting war between humans, after all, I'd say the race to a eliminate malaria, the race to get to the moon first, definitely have lead to some interesting bits of technology.
If they could make magic armour that weighs nothing, can't they just scribble some of that weigh nothing magic on a huge rock? bam easy way to move a huge rock.
Submarine is believable, they're pretty old actually! sure they didnt shoot torpedos and have radars.. But any solid underwater vehicle that can steer can be mounted with a powerful ram or drill and gut enemy ships with impunity!
Commissar_Dan Yeah.... tell me Commisar, when will the people of this universe finnaly get their mindless, brainwashed heads out of their filthy assholes and learn common sense and logic?
+Arch Warhammer Is there any chance of some videos on the Daemons of Chaos Lore and Army? I gathered that you seem to have some... problems with how Daemons are portrayed in more recent works (7th and 8th edition), like you have problems with the End Times and Age of Sigmar stuff (and I certainly agree with you on these last two things), but still Daemons are a huge part of Warhammer lore and are hugely influential to the world, your lore videos feel incomplete without something focused on Daemons and their forces. I don't really know what is there that you don't like about modern Chaos Daemons, but if it's really so bad couldn't you at least omit the worst part or explain why they don't make sense?
Arch Warhammer I think something this video misses is that, in a fantasy universe like this, the difference between technology and magic is rather shaky. After all, what is magic but just another energy source? If you power a tank using magic, is it really all that different from using coal? In this, I would say Skaven are the biggest innovaters of the Warhammer fantasy universe. They use warpstone to power their inventions, yes, but they are still new inventions. Just going off your army list videos, they use poison gas, bioweapons, machine guns, and primitive sniper rifles. Additionally, each of the four major clans are constantly competing against one another, and so are in a perpetual arms race. Clan Moulder has made some pretty damn impressive monstrosities and bio-engineering. Clan pestilence probably has a pretty damn good understanding of diseases and I wouldn't be surprised if one of their closely guarded secrets is germ theory. Clan skryre makes its name by making technological innovations. Of course, they're distrust of each other makes any interdiscliplinary research nigh-on impossible, hampering their technological development somewhat. And its not really fair to handwave this as magic because it uses warpstone. Why use coal (and thus steam power) when you have warpstone? Its simply a better energy source Essentially, directed pre-industrial technological innovation only happens in rich societies that can afford to have dedicated specialists in a certain field (eg Rome). The only nation this really applies to is the Skaven. Everyone else is either too unmotivated (elves), too stupid (greenskins), or too desperate (empire, dwarves). If the Empire were ever to establish some kind of lasting peace where they didn't have to constantly whisk away they're best and brightest to go fight the 73rd invasion of horrible creatures they would probably experience a boom of technology.
Dwarven sailors, that's how you DUIs at the high seas? How much of their stowage is devoted to kegs of dwarven beer. Might be why they sink in rough seas
Maybe if we get another iteration of Fantasy we Brets will get our bombard cannons and knightly infantry back. (Foot knights make sense, look at Monfort, nearly the entire duchy is in the mountains - that's infantry territory, and the Brets aren't that stupid).
As far as innovations go, I kinda feel like small advances still could take place, like rifling (the ridges in gun barrels that stabilize the bullet) or maybe a steam-powered cannon? Other then that, it seems like a world of stagnate technology, like everyone is to busy staying alive rather then inventing things!
Rifling exists. It's why the Hochland Long Rifles are so accurate. However, apparently the inventor got drunk, wandered off into the woods and got eaten by beastmen or something, because they no longer have any clue how to make proper long rifles instead of cheap knockoffs with too many design flaws. Unfortunately, they haven't invented breech-loading yet to take advantage of rifling, so that technology isn't widespread.
so dorfs dont like innovation and change . they dont like new things , how on earth can some dwarf than have invented a gyrocopter and convince ppl to actually use it ?
Crossbows are also very easy to handle and lear how ti fire and tey are better than gunpowder weapons because they don't explode. The only reason why muskets are/were a thing in Warhammer world and in our own world is because smoke, sparks and explosions are scaryer than arrows/bolts and they have much better armour piercing.
as well late flint lock, smooth bore musket or a rifle were that bad, (as long you clean your gun like in any age) you know after a good long 400-500 years of gunpowder weaponry. That said, you need strong arms to reload a crossbow or you could go have assed on the reloading but you will lose most of the power needed to puncture armour. On the other hand gunpowder weaponry empire version so flintlock so by that point you can fire the gun while it rains and in heavier weather unlike bolts and arrows which can effected quite heavily. I think the only real problem is the manufacturing but even when that can be fixed with specialized factories
Dazooe J Crossbows and bows have an arc fire type meaning that they can fire even when behind a line of allied units while guns can't do this. Also, some crossbows have a special mechanized reload system (similar to Jeoffrey's crossbows in GoT) meaning that strong arms are not really required.
Jeoffrey's crossbows is more of a self defence weapon then the ones used in the military, you wouldn't see that in the hands a soldiers sure it would be easy to use but the tension in the string wouldn't be enough on chain mail, a real military could span the need of 380-450 pounds of force to crank it, you would probably need a goat crank by that point which still requires some effort or the special windup crank but would take longer then reloading a musket. With the ability of firing in row is going to save you in the long run, I'm guessing this crossbow men would have shields on the back well oops that shields just has a couple of holes in it and the man is dead, wait you have infantry as well well there dead as well because they don't have the speed or protection do get close. Instead of having men separated into archer lines and infantry, lets just give them all guns with a bayonet on the end to ward off calvary. when 400 swords men and 400 archers come to fight each other against 800 muskets, the odds don't seem to be much in there favour. From what I did forget is that saying one thing is easier to use then the other would be right if your army was men off from the fields. But as we can see in our world and in the warhammer fantasy that larger towns and city have professional armies, men that have been practicing for the very moment of war. These men would then drill in firing line that could kill men and scare off many others. I can piece late plate amour which is pretty much impossible by any other weapon and which is one reason we see the end of the medieval era. War hammer is different because they have special armours and special weapons, monster that can soak up a lot of damage. But they also have big ass cannons and tanks as well and every race has magic of some form
We'll have to disagree on the Chaos Dwarfs. While the Middle Eastern stereotype Dwarfs, but my god, the new rule book made them incredible fun. Slavers, who would runebind Daemons into artillery and constructs were incredible fun. I loved playing them, and it's an incredible shame that Games Workshop binned it.
Great lore video, Arch. Thank you. BTW, what's with the model at around 27:40? It looks like some kind of Chaod Dwarves contraption, yet it has Tzeentch's color scheme and Ogres manning it.
It shouldn't be that stagnant. There is one innovation they should have made that would have started the path of technological advancement. Repeating fire arms. Repeating firearms take minimum technological advancement (revolver rifles were actually a thing). This would radically increase a single soldiers effectiveness in Battle.(just look at the American civil war). From there it's a short step to the Gatling gun. Tanks were created because repeating firearms had destroyed the effectiveness of Calvary. Countries needed an armored replacement.(and later helicopters took over the role.). But military innovation all starts from repeating firearms. The ablity for each soldier to fire several shots without reloading (preferably using rifled barrels). It's the match to the fire....and one that should have happened long ago in Warhammer.
From the history if science in our world, technology only becomes as complex as society can support. When Rome fell a lot of technology died out because there was no benefit to maintaining the knowledge to support urban infrastructure that no longer existed. With the warhammer world constantly at fighting, society never builds up enough infrastructure to support a virtuous cycle of innovation.
Arch, any good warhammer fantasy books other than Gotrek and Felix. Purchased "grail knight" and read it within 2 hours and enjoyed it need to read the other within that series. Just ordered "call to arms" and "knights of the blazing sun" hopefully they are good reads.
I miss the renaissance themed steam tech of Warhammer Fantasy, Sigmar its pretty much Victorian level steampunk with advanced airships and vehicles and personal jetpack balloons.
The Skaven are the fluffiest (and therefore the best) race in the Warhammer world. Along with their tendency to end up with their dagger in their best "friend's" back they really are my favorite.
You do know that romans weren't making a really good armour? Thy just made a methods to make it in a cheapest way. I mean accept the 'lorica segmentata' (which as popular as people think) they used a breastplates (ripped of from greeks(, and chainmails, used by numerous factions, including gauls. The classical shape of roman helmet was made by merginf oold helmets with gaulic helmets, and the gladius has evolved much after the fights in Spain. The roman amry strenght wasn't a 'strong armour ( I mean hoplites egsisted ages before rome), but by incredible ability of adapting their tactics, and finding good influences in armies they fought, in the endless struggle to make their armies better than before (yet cheap enough for more and more corrupted system).
They made much better armor when in comparison to the Gauls one has to say. For their time, their armor certainly met the standard and even went above. A Roman legionnaire (with an obvious exception of the velites) would be fairly heavily armored (I'm referring to the Roman legion in its prime). The Roman legion somewhat relied on their army's ability to survive a large amount of time on a battlefield. Their tactics were important yes, but a large amount of those tactics revolved heavily around the Roman infantry's longevity. Their scutum could be used as a very effective defensive tool, while their Gladius was best suited for close ranged combat, making their overall fighting style fairly stiff and defensive. Their armor definitely wasn't cheap, and this shows in their tactics.
Cobbes Fortunato I'm not saying their armour was shit. It met standarts, but not much more. Many greek hoplites had better armours. The reall diffrence was the ability to equip every soldier.
Gigantic canons, gyrocopters, steam tanks and trains... This is what I absolutely don't like about Warhammer, I'm not even a fan of gunpowder either. This is totally destroying immersion for me. BTW is there a Warhammer setting without all these things?
You are making the assumption that technology always move forward, as seen with the Roman Empire that is not necessarily true. If that was the case the Romans would have colonized the moon a few hundred years after defeating Carthage. But that is not how human nature works. If the Empire is under constant attack you might see a decline in technological innovation in the human realm. Especially if Nuln should ever fall. And as you said yourself the dwarfs have their own guild stopping innovation and the Skaven do not share their tech with others or even write it down, except for a few standardized Skryre tech.
How does what your saying make sense? Medicines, medical tech and techniques, even flat screens and the microwave were developed from military tech. How does technology go backwards? By the people choosing not to progress. Darwinism would show the races that technological stopped would be taken over by ones who progressed. If my army is armed w machine guns fighting an army w swords in a head to head clash the guns would win. Your theory is ridiculous.
Aegis030 It's not a theory it is a fact. It's not about people choosing to progress it is about allowing the few geniuses that actually move the world forward the freedom and opportunity to contribute. Ever wondered why committees never accomplish anything? It's not the collective who progress humanity but a few individuals. Most humans are not capable of accomplishing anything except mundane tasks, which is not bad in itself but it is bad if you don't allow those who can the ability to succeed further. Fact #1 Romans knew how to build aqueducts, their successors tore them down to build shacks. Fact#2 The Romans knew how to make concrete, their successors had to reinvent masonry. Fact#3 The Romans developed the Constitution and Military Formations, their successors reverted to primitive petty fiefdoms and barbarian tactics. Fact#4 The Chinese developed a great and safe Empire with focus on enlightenment and harmony and they stagnated technologically for several thousand years. Fact#5 The Japanese a highly developed society who according to the first Portuguese explorer was the only civilization to rival the Europeans in the Age of Enlightenment had also stagnated technologically. Fact#6 You see today the civilizations in the middle east reverting and going back technologically with the rise of ISIS and other primitive ideological groups. You know, it only takes a generation to unlearn hundreds and thousand of year of accumulated knowledge. Fact#7 The Soviets purged the landed farmers in Ukraine and Russia thereby killing those who had agricultural knowledge and competence which reverted their technology basically back to square one until USA started helping the USSR. Fact#8 the Greeks and Romans knew how to perform brain surgery, their successors thought leeches and blood drain would cure anything. History does not always move forwards, and even Darwinism is proof of that. I recommend you read Thomas Hobbes, it is not always the strong who win, but the throng of the mediocre and the weak.
All things considered snotlings are probebly the best builders in thwarhammer universe. There snotlings, damit , there dummer than the rat swarms and they still are able to make pumpwagons which are in efect flimsy thanks that can EXPLODE on impact if you want, and this is from the dummest sentient species in the warhammer universe
Aaaam, it is true that muskets are "easier" to master than a longbow, and it surely let more people to use it, but the most dominant factor was that it countered the favored unit type: heavy cavalry. The sight of a knight band, charging down the hill in shiny armor and weapons were enough to demoralize the common footman, not to mention their resistance against common weapons, like the arrows or swords, but when the soldiers got weapons that can stop a full fledged horse charge, well, they surely did not lost their morale.
Commissar_Dan Did you consider the fact that those longbowmen used the terrain against those knights, they technically lured them into a "swamp" where the mud was deep enough for the knights to be unable to move. They used their heavy gear against them, not their longbows. Of course longbows can pierce the heavy armour of the knights, but you have to make them stop moving, in order to hit them, you know it's kind of hard for an archer to hit a charging knight, they move really fast with those horses. The nature of the longbow, what is indirect fire, makes it useless against a horse charge, while a volley of muskets can stop that charge easily, as we fire them directly, and those lead balls have a way more penetration vaule than an arrow, so in some cases a lucky shot was able to penetrate the shield and the body armor of a knight, causing fatal injury on the man inside it.
Commissar_Dan It's not effective, that is the whole point. If you can't hit your enemy, then your weapon is useless. That is why the people in the middle ages didn't used those bigass axes and swords we see in comics, and that is why longbow is not effective against the fast moving knights. If it would be just the penetration value, then the crossbows are better at it, hell, even composite bows are better at it. I didn't want to say this but that longbow of yours is only good at range(and maybe price), if the enemy is not moving slowly, you don't have a chance to hit him, and the rate of fire is just horrible for a bow, not to mention the strenght what you needed to just use it(what is because the poor energy storing). All in all, the longbow is a bad weapon, the english only used it because it was their pride, same with the L85.
Commissar_Dan ...so you telling me that 30 arrows in a minute should be considered good... Then what about the man here in hungary who shot 12 arrows in 10 seconds, with rather good accuracy(with an authentical composite bow)? Do you even know how fast people shot their arrows back in the middle ages? They weren't even doing that for fun, as most historicans do today, they did it for a living, so you can assume that those people(who were more stronger and faster than today's men btw) used those weapons far more faster, and precise, than what we can reconstruct today. And sorry to break it to you, but that "large volley" was used everywhere, you know, and army is an army because they got a lot of soldiers together, so they tend to use weapons en masse. Also, mastering a longbow is a rather hard task, so there wasn't that much of manpower to have significantly bigger archer bands than the other nations, who used different bows, or other projectile weapons. It's a bad weapon, deal with it.
A lot of modern speed shooters use low poundage bows and don't extend to full draw. This means that while the can fire huge numbers of arrows they dont have enough power to send heavy war arrows down range with enough force to injure a person in even a padded gambison. People in the middle ages were not physicaly superior to modern people. Except for the top nobility they would have had worse nutrition than a modern westerner which is a key factor in physical size and stregnth. In addition disease and hard labour caused long term physical problems. While a modern office worker would be less fit anyone who regularly worked out would be much stronger due to the extra protein to build muscle. Crossbows didn't actually have more penatrative power due to a shorter draw-span and a lighter projectile (which incidentaly caused it to be less accurate at range and loose speed quickly). The perception of archers in the 100 years war raining arrows down on the enemy from great range also as problems as a lot of art from the period shows the archers firing at relativly close range.
joseph Hooton Now this is the superstitial(or how you write it) viewpoint of middle ages. You are really going to argue about their art? They didn't shown archers firing in long distances, because they wanted both armies/ soldiers to be seen, not to mention that they glorified close combat, so nope, they are not reliable sources. If you want to learn something about the middle ages, read some war books/ documents from that era, or just use your damn logic(the hell do you want to fight with bows and light armor with your enemy so close? it's suicide!). And have you seen a crossbow in real life? Or a crossbow bolt for an instance? They are 2-3 times bigger than the normal arrows, not to mention what BS bolt the siege crossbows used! You needed a mechanical tool just to ready that damn thing. And what is this bs about nutrition? You know how well fed the soldiers were? Lots of them were low class nobility, and sorry to break it to you, but what you consider workout, and what phisical labor the middle ages's people did, is on a whole different level. And their physicue was different too! Clothes/ armour what was found to belong in that era, were a lot bigger than our average persons wear. And please, stop comparing today's people with the soldiers of the past, they were fighting and training all day just to survive, while in today's millitary you practice how to pull a trigger at the best time. They were on a whole different level.
I would point out that it's guerilla warfare and not gorilla warfare, but seeing as you were talking about the beastmen, maybe it is gorilla warfare after all.
Can you really say the chaos dwarves are the most advanced? They build metall thingys and posses them with daemons. Thats more magic than technology isnt it?
The whole technological state of the warhammer world does not make any sense, there's way too many holes in the story. I absolutely hate the dwarfs going more and more towards a steam-punkey race, looks absolutely ridiculous and it does not make any sense why they can build helicopters (!) while the rest has hardly invented the wheel -_-.
+Dave R Doubt it, no game has been able to capture the "magic" that World of Warcraft had. Even WoW cant capture what it had in the past. They have lost half their players in one expansion.
+Evirthewarrior actually after the fan reboot (official server shut down in december 2013) amd pve slowly getțng fixed the world is great. while only hang acces to the empire, ulthuan and dwarf areas (and land of the dead - not implemented yet) its great. kinda bias - nostalgia, sorry :)
Evirthewarrior returnofreckoning.com Check it out! Private server! The devs are fixing more and more stuff everyday, and adding some new things as well! Right now theres tiers 1-3. There's quite a few of us on there, having fun and living/fighting/dying in the Old World! Its free to play and a lot of fun.
StellWair exactly! warhammer already has alot of technology, so a leap to bolt action high caliber rifles, breach loading artillery, tanks, and machine guns isn't that much of a leap lol
+MonarchTherapsids Inostran A more steampunk Warhammer Fantasy would be fantastic. Tons of new potential for units, lore, changed kingdom territory from conquest, and more. It'd have to be done well and with serious thought to keep the theme unique to Warhammer and prevent one race becoming extinct as they all would need to have their own taste on it to prevent duplicate armies both in play style and tactics.
europe went into a dark age around the time we even knew the chinese had that technology so there wasn't organized advancement, also if it wasn't necessary to advance how the hell did we invent airplanes there was no need there was no real way and guess what we used them for far more than war and when WW1 happened sure we plopped some weapons on them but planes already were everywhere also. this invention and rapid spread happed before the hindenburg so thats not why it became so big
+george to put it simply, dark elves pretended to be high elves and raided the dwarfs. dwarfs get pissed, dwarfs send messenger to high elves demanding they stop, high elves cut off dwarf messenger's beard. massive war that ends up with the dwarfs winning but being a shadow of their former selves
Btw, thanks for the video. I'm making a fantasy world myself, so understanding technological advance and how it cooperates with magic is pretty important, as I intend to have almost the same timeline as ours, with this particular worldset(so the mechanics of innovation are cruical, so to say). It's a bit sad to see what they did to their universe, just for keeping it in stagnation, given that there are not too many popular and well made fantasy settings, and the fact that they just crushed another potential source for studying. Well, that is what you get from profit oriented companies.
***** Ire towards the Swedes* Direct the rightous ire the right way good sir! Denmark is like the responsible parent of scandinavia, with a minor drug abuse going on in secrect.
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.83[1/2] เปิดแคมป์หลอนต้อนรับ 2 ตัวพ่อแห่งวงการผี!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2uPuHYHgwiI/mqdefault.jpg)
"secret of making tanks was lost" sounds super dumb. if they can maintain, repair and operate the things, figuring out how to make more, even if inferior versions, would be a natural next step.
heretic! nothing follows logic in warhammer! (sort of XD)
truemisto To reverse-engineer a Steam Tank, they would need to dismantle one of the handful remaining ones and still wouldn't necessarily figure out how to make it work.
+Commissar_Dan just reverse engineer the thing and make some more blueprints.
Reverse engineering is often more difficult then engineering the thing from scratch. There are many thing from even 50 years ago that we don't have a clue as to make since the molds, blueprints are no longer there and reverse engineering the item is often costly and takes years. Its why repairing fifty year old trains is more expensive then buying a new one.
Apparently, in the newer lore, the Empire figured out how to build more of a single, more successful variant of the Steam Tanks. The issue is that building these things take alot of time, manpower and steel and their factories are, well, pretty shite. So, they never got around to mass-production of Steam Tanks.
It's interesting that in human history some of our greatest technological achievements have been driven by intense warfare or hardship (the atom bomb, jet aircraft etc.). We were forced to innovate under duress, the fact that the dwarves fell back on tried and true methods increases the difference between them and humans.
MrCommander1993 Also, the dwarves posess a very conservative mentality.
PapaZoulou you could argue that the Dwarves are slowly abandoning thier conservative personality with thier use of devices like the Cannon and even units like the Thunderers and even the engineering guild is making new things all the time (or was if you want to count the whole age of sigmar thing)
The Chaos Dwarves though are defintely more innovative of the two
MrCommander1993 A lot of the great human discoveries were actually ment for the greater good. When the idea of splitting the atom was first conceived it was not followed with: let's make a bomb out of it but with: how can we use this to benefit people. The people inventing technology often have the good of mankind or profit in mind. Or both of course. Military purpose often comes later. Not allways of course. One of the major exceptions for example is the internet. Originally designed as an alternate way of communication within an army it quickly became popular in the civilian sectors.
One of the best examples is propably the steam engine. The first proper machine to replace human and animal labor. It was used almost exclusivly for transport or in factories/mines and it would take years before it was placed on warships.
Dutch Thats actually very true. Although war spurred faster advances and pushed them in specific directions, some of the most important ideas/killer apps just happened. The printing press, germ theory of disease, and as you said the steam engine happened because someone just had a good idea and the will to implement it.Thus I maintain that in general fantasy settings, humanity and similar races are just less intelligent than reality. (seriously song of ice and fire remains middle ages level of tech for something like 10000 years, thats longer than recorded human history lol.)
The jet engine would've been developed anyway.
We don't really have another peaceful sentient species to compare two to really test these Assertions.
Think of all the things that we could never have done without cooperation, The international space station for instance!
man,now all i'm thinking about is a dwarf in a business suit selling a human a steam car."this baby can get to 50 in 5 seconds.women would want to be with you!men would want to be you!Orcs will want to beat you!".glorious!
I also hope if they have naval battles,they are just auto resolved.imagine you are a dark elf,and you get your BIG ASS castle boats,stuck on a little dark elf boat,and then the enemy proceed to ram your sides,hoping to sink a HUGE CASTLE THAT FLOATS.
Well it could be quite amusing to watch Orks trying to take on Empire galleys and Dwarven ironclads with rafts and their doggy paddle. Less amusing for the Orks...
id imagine the Orks would try breaking through the Dwarven ironclads by hurling as many insults as possible at it,while lobbing goblins at its broadsides,and beating each other to a pulp to see who boards first....
SirHeroknight I love how they make brilliant designs and in the end they ask themselves "Hmm what should we arm it with" and the answer tends to always be "A cannon!" xD
So if dwarves followed the human Industrial Revolution they could be mowing down Chaos warriors with machine guns.
(Just imagine a unit of Thunderers but with Tommy guns instead of muskets)
+CompetitivelyAwesome This is our Hold see, nyea see? So yous better get out or you'll be sleeping with the warpspawn see, nyea see?
The Crimson Fucker (puffs on a cigar)*i bring you's inta my hold,give ya good ale and food offa my table,and what do ya's repay me with?,nothin...nothin but a daughter with a broken heart and a new grandson that ain't never gonna know his pop.when I'm tru wit you,not even a daemonette'll deign to look you in the eye*(takes puff of cigar,blows smoke)*you'll make nurgle look like a five class stud in comparison*
Damn...I got WAY too into that
Mobster dwarves... brilliant! thank you for a new D&D campaign
Laughs in Rattling guns.
the Dwarf Gyro-copters are Beer Powered, its canon.
the reason that Europe took longer to make handguns and cannons the real future was 1. salt peter was hard to find, they originally had to import it from the East. but once they discovered they could boil down animal droppings to get salt peter more readily, gun powder became cheaper.
2. the Europeans also were just starting to figure out how to cast iron into gunpowder firing weapons.
3. you are right on the fact...its. black. powder.
one spark-BOOM: Too much water, fizz.
Match cord not hot enough, or not enough powder in pan, flash in the pan!!
+Aralock Karathis bugmen?
+Aralock Karathis ok! sorry, I am still a took on the fantasy side of this franchise.
Yup, Black powder is quite shit indeed. Simple enough to make at home (sulfur might be a problem, but saltpeter is quite cheap, and charcoal? EZ) but it's soooo unstable I'm not that worried about makeshift bombs blowing every day.
And it's not THAT easy to make either...
Zurieg Von Carstein such a waste of the best beer or there
i would love to see the empire making it to an industrial revolution and then seeing how an orc invasion would go. orcs vs steel breech loaded artillery. :D
Then the Orcs will eventually create the first Tank Bustaz.
i fucking loved the mesopotamian theme of chaos dwarf, i would totally collect them if they were available at GW
You should take a look at the abyssal dwarfs from mantic, they aren't Mesopotamian but they're still cool as heck.
theres also the Skavens, they make loads of stuff. doomwheels for example and atomic bomb in some fluff.ancient khemri hade air ships and the living statues. not to mention. Lizard men has freaking laser weapons. kroq-gar has his golden gauntlet that fires beams of seering light. the engine of the gods,, the bastilodon sun stone thing. i mean they cant make them annymore but they have it and later space fareing domed bio domes
To be honest most of Warhammer doesn't make sense. I mean take the armor for one. The shoulder pads most people wear, along with the general layout of the armor would inhibit most movement. Furthermore, the Chaos wastes should be far too barren to facilitate the massive hords of mostly human warriors that pour out of them during major invasions.
This is why i love Dwarves, no magic means they have to rely on something else to match their challenges. Runes could easily allow them to make many powerful machines, gyrocopters for example could have runes of lightness inscribed on them, make them light enough and they'll fly. Runes of Fire could power steam engines too. Plus everything they do practically demands advancement, mining and construction is so much engineering and math, not to mention alchemy. They're like the highschool quarterbacks mixed with the nerds, with beards! Right now their mix of physical power, runic magic, and technology is probably a good enough balance for them to not really need to advance too much more, its not like they want to conquer the world.
I often hate technological portrayals in fantasy settings, but love it when its reasonably done as it is here. Unlike saaaaay World of Warcraft or Rift online or Guild Wars 2.. Where they may as well all fly spaceships and ride mech warriors into cyber battles, except its all made from wood and powered by coal..
Cool video and interesting reasons. However, I would still be suspicious of the 'technological standstill' conclusion that the WHFB setting apparently draws.
Modern ground-based military technology has evolved (in a simplified sense) from the increase in firepower of the common infantryman, and the need to counter it. In the case of Empire and Dwarfs, it is just too unbelievable that the Empire would not eventually figure out how to make improvements to their weapons. The next step up from the musket is the breech-loading rifle. This innovation is what - by itself - allowed Prussia to crush Austria, just because of this single tech. Basically, it can be reloaded MUCH faster than a musket, and the firer does not need to be standing to do so.
I would imagine that both Empire and Dwarfs would try their best to help their guns shoot faster. And on the tabletop? This would equate to Empire handgunners suddenly firing three times as fast as before. That would bring some changes in doctrine with it, and of course, breech-loading guns are a stepping stone to actual repeater rifles and semi-automatic weaponry.
I suppose it is questionable that the Empire would really reach the required level of technology for such development - so that is what makes it impossible. Still, with a bit of industrial development, the Empire could quickly grow to match mid-19th-century Prussia.
And once you have breechloaders rifles become much more practical.
Not to mention the most plausible reason for potential innovation in the warhammer universe: the desire for quicker, simpler, cheaper production. Or hell, even just weapons that take less skill or don't require throwing troops into a meatgrinder; that also quickly leads to a nigh exponential growth rate in that scenario. Let's say that the empire can't develop precision parts yet, or interchangeable parts, because of a lack of proper measurement standardization, metal quality, etc. They could still easily develop steam or water powered workshops with overhead rotary power delivered to each workstation by a rotating shaft, which could then be used on any number of powered tools. Or hell, even a basic line of manufacture which was not unknown in our medieval period; every step in the process to make a sword for instance was done by seperate specialist people/ guilds.
They could make it all cheaper and easier by the use of magic, too; guy is in charge of the furnace with fire magic, and to save time on sharpening all of the weapons there's an area effect spell for that too.
The issue I Imagine is making a metallic cartridge is near impossible. tooling? HA. no.
Could the Skaven be a force of technological innovation?
Well they certainly make new plagues and are very keen to share those innovations with the world.
Father nurgle would be proud
Ha... ye make me laugh!
Marshal_Grey ehhhhhh i hesitate to call what they do to technology, its more magic really as they use warpstone for all kinds of things like power sources, focus lenses, explosives etc
Arch Warhammer but you did called Chaos Dwarfs 'the main force of technological innovation' and a lot of things they don't just use a magical resource, they are just magic.
Additionally, in the context of WHF world, using warpstone is, IMO not that different from using coal or oil.
i feel like games workshop dropped the ball with the dwarves and especially with the chaos dwarves. i was hoping to see more tech inovations from the dwarves. and a few more special chaos dwarf units and seige equipment would be great. not to mention how the completely phased dwarves out of 40 k.they could have been some seriously tanky units :'(
Well the 40k dwarves were killed by Chaos. .so they only have like a few thousand guys alive
wilhelmrk the 40k dwarves or squats were eaten by Tyranids and unless thier was a secret stronghold somewhere full of squats, thier race is near extinction and is unfortuneatly canon :(
Ah I forgot that it was Tyrannids and not Chaos, sorry about the misinformation but yeah, in technicality you still can play "Dwarves" in 40K but they basically play under the rules of Imperial Guard, only that they have more strenght per unit and less movibility.Castlerea 12
Castlerea 12 that was my whole point was that games workshop killed them off..... wasting the potential. so i fail to see the point in either of your comments.
brandon cawley i was replying to+wilhelmrk not to you, sorry.
I have to correct you on Rome. They didn't win thanks to technologie, far from it, celts had way better craftsman, swords and chainmail at the time where they confronted the romans. They had superior military tactics and formation, fighting more like a military machine as the more "glory in battle is mine" stance that celts mostly used. and even so, romans won mostly because of their lack of unity and organisation rather then only fighting power. Technologie rarely won, just change in etablished rules. Alexander beat the Persian with a more active using of cavalery and making pikes slightly longer then usually (the sarissa) per exemple
Considering the fact that Rome also stole other ideas and incorpated them as their own, while they did have some great achievements like the Aqueducts, they weren't as advanced as people thought they were
I would like to say that roman strip plate armour were superior to early chain mail though not as cheap
Roman propaganda indeed. They incorporated lots of technologies from people around them. Carthanigians, greeks, etruscs etc
haha, they had strip plate amour before they had even Carthanigians or the greeks. And even if they had well we all knew who wore it better
Dazooe J
you thinking about marian legionnaries, who had this armor only way after the wars with greeks and carthaginians. And those armors where nothing special, just easy to mass manufacture out of cheap steel. A good chainmail was better in any way. Just more expensive. As arch said in this video, it's often more a matter of price and of how many you could muster in the less time. While Celtic chainmail offered better protection, they had way less of it.
I would think the reason why technological advances in a fantasy setting like Warhammer would probably be because of magic, or magic in the form of miracles. Would you, or too anyone who is still watching this video it's so late in, consider magic the reason why technological advancement is so slow?
probably yes and why you bother inventing a plane, when you can just set on yours dragon/giant eagle/gryfon/etc :)
Really enjoy these lore vids. Accompanied by your own special cadence they are you tube gems.
Warlords Battlecry is an old RTS i like, RPG/RTS hybrid actually. The only RTS i can think of that has Dark Dwarves in it, and they're pretty awesome. Few in number and 'cowardly' compared to regular dwarves, the only dwarf unit in their retinue is the builder, everything else is a golem or a siege weapon such as the Hellbore Lightning cannon, and the flame cannon.
The reason why tanks weren't effective in the Warhammer world is because they weren't used correctly. The advent of tanks came about in world war one, and the cover it provided for charging infantry paired with the mounted cannons allowed for effective piercing of the enemy trench lines, which had previously been a suicide mission.
There a couple of disagreement I have with this video.
But first something else: the reason that historical Europe didn't develop gunpowder earlier is simple. Before the Enlightenment, there was basically only "random" inventions and not a organize effort to improve technology.
A medieval lord had not a research budget nor did his scholars had set goals to figure out XY or improve this that. Since mankind stared, to organize it's quest for knowledge more, mankind started to learn a lot faster.
I disagree with the empire not being inventive. Hellblaster are tricky machines and so are the advance guns of the Empire.
Also let's not forget a small little event in 2521: here the humans and dwarfs face each other with they most advance and most crazy inventions. Things like "flying mechanical angels" to show that the Empire advances, even thou those things didn't translate into the armybooks.
Still wondering what abilities a Technicus may have in TW Warhammer.
Also let's not forget a aspect of Warhammer Technology: they can mix Technology and maigc, which also open the doors for more designs.
The Skaven mix technology and magic quite dangeroualy with that massive bell of thiers
Si Wi the fact that "nothing got invented during the middle ages" is more of Enlightenment propaganda actually. They had lots of progress too, just not much in mentality.
cranederoc
Oh i didn't mean to implie that there was no progress and I think I'm quite aware of the problems of the enlightenment (as creating the suppose dark medieval times).
But the progress was more base on individual curiosity and random events.
Unlike modern science which "produce" knowledge almost factory wise.
Si Wi Yeah, in reality a whole lot of the "technology" they use is practically impossible. What made flight possible for us was the internal combustion engine. Water is too heavy for a steam engine to be of much use on any sort of aircraft. It works on trains and boats because weight isn't as much of a factor. Imagine how much water and fuel the steam tank needs to move at all, I do not envy those water boys.
MrCommander1993
Well there have been steam "cars" (for lack of better word), which always needed a axe handy for chopping down woods for fuel...
I missed Anamalie. So calming.
hey I gotta ask what exists in the Warhammer fantasy? I mean what do they have that we have. like indoor plumbing and or chocolate for example. trying to write a fanfic for fantasy and I don't know the lore enough for and exact estimate. also how does the world's currency works?
Your vid is one of the most sastifying vids on CoW mod on youtube I have ever seen, so I'm so glad we are going to have more ^^
So great to not have to hear Archs voice trough the Train station`s mic. No, we got the good old clear smooth back
A team of some adventurous mages and inventors could make miracle machines
Back when i was a younger teenager i used to play warhammer fantasy (wanted to get back into it and do Brettonians, then found out what age of sigmar was and that they were gone, ahhh) i had a huge empire army back then, complete with metal steam tank. That tank was the bane of my life, it would fall apart in my case every time i transported it to a game. I know the plastic one came out, and might just get one. Another model i saw and wanted was the plastic Karl Franz model, and that damn model was discontinued too, ffs
the steam tank is actually really advanced, because the cannons are not primitive but most likely breech loaders, which are very technical
Great video arch, just wanted to leave one little tid bit here for ya....
They had pigeon bombs, ridiculous right?....We had dogs for a while....bats too...fun fact
Bats however do not return to the sender. They roost hence if you put bombs and release them they go to a structure if in a city environment. Dogs are trained to go somewhere. The dog bomb was for tanks. Problem was the dogs got confused as to which tanks to go to.
Pretty sure we tried pigeon-guided bombs too
@@toomanyaccounts If I remember correctly the Russians trained dogs to blow up tanks in WW2 however they mainly trained with Russian tanks (as those are what they had access to).
That combined that the Germans of course tried to shoot them made the dogs run back into their own lines, making them rather inefficient.
And by "war to be won" we don't always mean it literally is a shooting war between humans, after all, I'd say the race to a eliminate malaria, the race to get to the moon first, definitely have lead to some interesting bits of technology.
If they could make magic armour that weighs nothing, can't they just scribble some of that weigh nothing magic on a huge rock? bam easy way to move a huge rock.
Submarine is believable, they're pretty old actually! sure they didnt shoot torpedos and have radars.. But any solid underwater vehicle that can steer can be mounted with a powerful ram or drill and gut enemy ships with impunity!
technologie in warhammer without my beloved skaven blame you xPPP
It would be neat to see the Warhammer 40'000 version of this tech video.
Commissar_Dan Yeah.... tell me Commisar, when will the people of this universe finnaly get their mindless, brainwashed heads out of their filthy assholes and learn common sense and logic?
The other thing is that the second the humans/dwarfs create semi-automatic and automatic firearms most other armies are screwed
+Arch Warhammer
Is there any chance of some videos on the Daemons of Chaos Lore and Army?
I gathered that you seem to have some... problems with how Daemons are portrayed in more recent works (7th and 8th edition), like you have problems with the End Times and Age of Sigmar stuff (and I certainly agree with you on these last two things), but still Daemons are a huge part of Warhammer lore and are hugely influential to the world, your lore videos feel incomplete without something focused on Daemons and their forces.
I don't really know what is there that you don't like about modern Chaos Daemons, but if it's really so bad couldn't you at least omit the worst part or explain why they don't make sense?
Arch Warhammer I think something this video misses is that, in a fantasy universe like this, the difference between technology and magic is rather shaky. After all, what is magic but just another energy source? If you power a tank using magic, is it really all that different from using coal?
In this, I would say Skaven are the biggest innovaters of the Warhammer fantasy universe. They use warpstone to power their inventions, yes, but they are still new inventions. Just going off your army list videos, they use poison gas, bioweapons, machine guns, and primitive sniper rifles. Additionally, each of the four major clans are constantly competing against one another, and so are in a perpetual arms race. Clan Moulder has made some pretty damn impressive monstrosities and bio-engineering. Clan pestilence probably has a pretty damn good understanding of diseases and I wouldn't be surprised if one of their closely guarded secrets is germ theory. Clan skryre makes its name by making technological innovations. Of course, they're distrust of each other makes any interdiscliplinary research nigh-on impossible, hampering their technological development somewhat.
And its not really fair to handwave this as magic because it uses warpstone. Why use coal (and thus steam power) when you have warpstone? Its simply a better energy source
Essentially, directed pre-industrial technological innovation only happens in rich societies that can afford to have dedicated specialists in a certain field (eg Rome). The only nation this really applies to is the Skaven. Everyone else is either too unmotivated (elves), too stupid (greenskins), or too desperate (empire, dwarves).
If the Empire were ever to establish some kind of lasting peace where they didn't have to constantly whisk away they're best and brightest to go fight the 73rd invasion of horrible creatures they would probably experience a boom of technology.
Dwarven sailors, that's how you DUIs at the high seas? How much of their stowage is devoted to kegs of dwarven beer. Might be why they sink in rough seas
Maybe if we get another iteration of Fantasy we Brets will get our bombard cannons and knightly infantry back. (Foot knights make sense, look at Monfort, nearly the entire duchy is in the mountains - that's infantry territory, and the Brets aren't that stupid).
As far as innovations go, I kinda feel like small advances still could take place, like rifling (the ridges in gun barrels that stabilize the bullet) or maybe a steam-powered cannon? Other then that, it seems like a world of stagnate technology, like everyone is to busy staying alive rather then inventing things!
Rifling exists. It's why the Hochland Long Rifles are so accurate. However, apparently the inventor got drunk, wandered off into the woods and got eaten by beastmen or something, because they no longer have any clue how to make proper long rifles instead of cheap knockoffs with too many design flaws.
Unfortunately, they haven't invented breech-loading yet to take advantage of rifling, so that technology isn't widespread.
weird how I've been subbed forever and only saw this video now
so dorfs dont like innovation and change . they dont like new things , how on earth can some dwarf than have invented a gyrocopter and convince ppl to actually use it ?
Apparently through some 1000-900 years of *very* heated debate.
Crossbows are also very easy to handle and lear how ti fire and tey are better than gunpowder weapons because they don't explode. The only reason why muskets are/were a thing in Warhammer world and in our own world is because smoke, sparks and explosions are scaryer than arrows/bolts and they have much better armour piercing.
as well late flint lock, smooth bore musket or a rifle were that bad, (as long you clean your gun like in any age) you know after a good long 400-500 years of gunpowder weaponry. That said, you need strong arms to reload a crossbow or you could go have assed on the reloading but you will lose most of the power needed to puncture armour. On the other hand gunpowder weaponry empire version so flintlock so by that point you can fire the gun while it rains and in heavier weather unlike bolts and arrows which can effected quite heavily. I think the only real problem is the manufacturing but even when that can be fixed with specialized factories
Dazooe J Crossbows and bows have an arc fire type meaning that they can fire even when behind a line of allied units while guns can't do this. Also, some crossbows have a special mechanized reload system (similar to Jeoffrey's crossbows in GoT) meaning that strong arms are not really required.
Jeoffrey's crossbows is more of a self defence weapon then the ones used in the military, you wouldn't see that in the hands a soldiers sure it would be easy to use but the tension in the string wouldn't be enough on chain mail, a real military could span the need of 380-450 pounds of force to crank it, you would probably need a goat crank by that point which still requires some effort or the special windup crank but would take longer then reloading a musket.
With the ability of firing in row is going to save you in the long run, I'm guessing this crossbow men would have shields on the back well oops that shields just has a couple of holes in it and the man is dead, wait you have infantry as well well there dead as well because they don't have the speed or protection do get close. Instead of having men separated into archer lines and infantry, lets just give them all guns with a bayonet on the end to ward off calvary. when 400 swords men and 400 archers come to fight each other against 800 muskets, the odds don't seem to be much in there favour.
From what I did forget is that saying one thing is easier to use then the other would be right if your army was men off from the fields.
But as we can see in our world and in the warhammer fantasy that larger towns and city have professional armies, men that have been practicing for the very moment of war. These men would then drill in firing line that could kill men and scare off many others. I can piece late plate amour which is pretty much impossible by any other weapon and which is one reason we see the end of the medieval era. War hammer is different because they have special armours and special weapons,
monster that can soak up a lot of damage. But they also have big ass cannons and tanks as well and every race has magic of some form
any noble would be smart enough to arm the men in a weapon they trust, if it explodes in there arms then is isn't ready for mass production
the empire kinda does have a steam train/new steam tank that pulls carts Marienburg made it. it was in some book
We'll have to disagree on the Chaos Dwarfs. While the Middle Eastern stereotype Dwarfs, but my god, the new rule book made them incredible fun. Slavers, who would runebind Daemons into artillery and constructs were incredible fun. I loved playing them, and it's an incredible shame that Games Workshop binned it.
Great lore video, Arch. Thank you.
BTW, what's with the model at around 27:40? It looks like some kind of Chaod Dwarves contraption, yet it has Tzeentch's color scheme and Ogres manning it.
Nice. Old music back.
Dert124454 aaaaaahh :')
Dert124454 That's what I thought aswell, kinda missed it in the videos before :D
It shouldn't be that stagnant. There is one innovation they should have made that would have started the path of technological advancement. Repeating fire arms. Repeating firearms take minimum technological advancement (revolver rifles were actually a thing). This would radically increase a single soldiers effectiveness in Battle.(just look at the American civil war). From there it's a short step to the Gatling gun. Tanks were created because repeating firearms had destroyed the effectiveness of Calvary. Countries needed an armored replacement.(and later helicopters took over the role.). But military innovation all starts from repeating firearms. The ablity for each soldier to fire several shots without reloading (preferably using rifled barrels). It's the match to the fire....and one that should have happened long ago in Warhammer.
From the history if science in our world, technology only becomes as complex as society can support.
When Rome fell a lot of technology died out because there was no benefit to maintaining the knowledge to support urban infrastructure that no longer existed.
With the warhammer world constantly at fighting, society never builds up enough infrastructure to support a virtuous cycle of innovation.
Arch, any good warhammer fantasy books other than Gotrek and Felix. Purchased "grail knight" and read it within 2 hours and enjoyed it need to read the other within that series. Just ordered "call to arms" and "knights of the blazing sun" hopefully they are good reads.
I miss the renaissance themed steam tech of Warhammer Fantasy, Sigmar its pretty much Victorian level steampunk with advanced airships and vehicles and personal jetpack balloons.
This makes me wish Games Workshop would make a Warhammer fantasy in the future say World War 1 era of Technology
Great stuff. Allthough I was expecting you to throw in a bit of scaven technology :(
The Skaven are the fluffiest (and therefore the best) race in the Warhammer world. Along with their tendency to end up with their dagger in their best "friend's" back they really are my favorite.
Good sound quality, somewhat echoey though. Don't know what can be done about that but i'm sure a quick google search would to help.
would be nice to see some more of those inventions in tw warhammer
probably wont happen but a blimp would be really awesome XD
You do know that romans weren't making a really good armour? Thy just made a methods to make it in a cheapest way. I mean accept the 'lorica segmentata' (which as popular as people think) they used a breastplates (ripped of from greeks(, and chainmails, used by numerous factions, including gauls.
The classical shape of roman helmet was made by merginf oold helmets with gaulic helmets, and the gladius has evolved much after the fights in Spain.
The roman amry strenght wasn't a 'strong armour ( I mean hoplites egsisted ages before rome), but by incredible ability of adapting their tactics, and finding good influences in armies they fought, in the endless struggle to make their armies better than before (yet cheap enough for more and more corrupted system).
They made much better armor when in comparison to the Gauls one has to say. For their time, their armor certainly met the standard and even went above. A Roman legionnaire (with an obvious exception of the velites) would be fairly heavily armored (I'm referring to the Roman legion in its prime). The Roman legion somewhat relied on their army's ability to survive a large amount of time on a battlefield. Their tactics were important yes, but a large amount of those tactics revolved heavily around the Roman infantry's longevity. Their scutum could be used as a very effective defensive tool, while their Gladius was best suited for close ranged combat, making their overall fighting style fairly stiff and defensive. Their armor definitely wasn't cheap, and this shows in their tactics.
Cobbes Fortunato I'm not saying their armour was shit. It met standarts, but not much more. Many greek hoplites had better armours. The reall diffrence was the ability to equip every soldier.
Repeating handgun isnt much of an revolution? I'd say it's at least one.
I would love to see more lore and stuff about that undead spacerace, the Necrons I think they are called.
plz plz plzzzzzz....
Gigantic canons, gyrocopters, steam tanks and trains...
This is what I absolutely don't like about Warhammer, I'm not even a fan of gunpowder either.
This is totally destroying immersion for me.
BTW is there a Warhammer setting without all these things?
You are making the assumption that technology always move forward, as seen with the Roman Empire that is not necessarily true. If that was the case the Romans would have colonized the moon a few hundred years after defeating Carthage. But that is not how human nature works. If the Empire is under constant attack you might see a decline in technological innovation in the human realm. Especially if Nuln should ever fall. And as you said yourself the dwarfs have their own guild stopping innovation and the Skaven do not share their tech with others or even write it down, except for a few standardized Skryre tech.
How does what your saying make sense? Medicines, medical tech and techniques, even flat screens and the microwave were developed from military tech. How does technology go backwards? By the people choosing not to progress. Darwinism would show the races that technological stopped would be taken over by ones who progressed. If my army is armed w machine guns fighting an army w swords in a head to head clash the guns would win. Your theory is ridiculous.
Aegis030
It's not a theory it is a fact. It's not about people choosing to progress it is about allowing the few geniuses that actually move the world forward the freedom and opportunity to contribute. Ever wondered why committees never accomplish anything? It's not the collective who progress humanity but a few individuals. Most humans are not capable of accomplishing anything except mundane tasks, which is not bad in itself but it is bad if you don't allow those who can the ability to succeed further. Fact #1 Romans knew how to build aqueducts, their successors tore them down to build shacks. Fact#2 The Romans knew how to make concrete, their successors had to reinvent masonry. Fact#3 The Romans developed the Constitution and Military Formations, their successors reverted to primitive petty fiefdoms and barbarian tactics. Fact#4 The Chinese developed a great and safe Empire with focus on enlightenment and harmony and they stagnated technologically for several thousand years. Fact#5 The Japanese a highly developed society who according to the first Portuguese explorer was the only civilization to rival the Europeans in the Age of Enlightenment had also stagnated technologically. Fact#6 You see today the civilizations in the middle east reverting and going back technologically with the rise of ISIS and other primitive ideological groups. You know, it only takes a generation to unlearn hundreds and thousand of year of accumulated knowledge. Fact#7 The Soviets purged the landed farmers in Ukraine and Russia thereby killing those who had agricultural knowledge and competence which reverted their technology basically back to square one until USA started helping the USSR. Fact#8 the Greeks and Romans knew how to perform brain surgery, their successors thought leeches and blood drain would cure anything. History does not always move forwards, and even Darwinism is proof of that. I recommend you read Thomas Hobbes, it is not always the strong who win, but the throng of the mediocre and the weak.
Skaven Technology = best technology
Uhhh... technologicly most advanced race missing. Skaven :T
26:00 if chaos dwarves shared their tech with kislev they might turn on the empire haha
All things considered snotlings are probebly the best builders in thwarhammer universe. There snotlings, damit , there dummer than the rat swarms and they still are able to make pumpwagons which are in efect flimsy thanks that can EXPLODE on impact if you want, and this is from the dummest sentient species in the warhammer universe
I generally like to ignore the 12steamtanks rule because it's tumb, but otherwise it's okay.
yay, the old music is back! :)
your videos are so comfy
Aaaam, it is true that muskets are "easier" to master than a longbow, and it surely let more people to use it, but the most dominant factor was that it countered the favored unit type: heavy cavalry. The sight of a knight band, charging down the hill in shiny armor and weapons were enough to demoralize the common footman, not to mention their resistance against common weapons, like the arrows or swords, but when the soldiers got weapons that can stop a full fledged horse charge, well, they surely did not lost their morale.
Commissar_Dan Did you consider the fact that those longbowmen used the terrain against those knights, they technically lured them into a "swamp" where the mud was deep enough for the knights to be unable to move. They used their heavy gear against them, not their longbows. Of course longbows can pierce the heavy armour of the knights, but you have to make them stop moving, in order to hit them, you know it's kind of hard for an archer to hit a charging knight, they move really fast with those horses. The nature of the longbow, what is indirect fire, makes it useless against a horse charge, while a volley of muskets can stop that charge easily, as we fire them directly, and those lead balls have a way more penetration vaule than an arrow, so in some cases a lucky shot was able to penetrate the shield and the body armor of a knight, causing fatal injury on the man inside it.
Commissar_Dan It's not effective, that is the whole point. If you can't hit your enemy, then your weapon is useless. That is why the people in the middle ages didn't used those bigass axes and swords we see in comics, and that is why longbow is not effective against the fast moving knights. If it would be just the penetration value, then the crossbows are better at it, hell, even composite bows are better at it. I didn't want to say this but that longbow of yours is only good at range(and maybe price), if the enemy is not moving slowly, you don't have a chance to hit him, and the rate of fire is just horrible for a bow, not to mention the strenght what you needed to just use it(what is because the poor energy storing). All in all, the longbow is a bad weapon, the english only used it because it was their pride, same with the L85.
Commissar_Dan ...so you telling me that 30 arrows in a minute should be considered good... Then what about the man here in hungary who shot 12 arrows in 10 seconds, with rather good accuracy(with an authentical composite bow)? Do you even know how fast people shot their arrows back in the middle ages? They weren't even doing that for fun, as most historicans do today, they did it for a living, so you can assume that those people(who were more stronger and faster than today's men btw) used those weapons far more faster, and precise, than what we can reconstruct today. And sorry to break it to you, but that "large volley" was used everywhere, you know, and army is an army because they got a lot of soldiers together, so they tend to use weapons en masse. Also, mastering a longbow is a rather hard task, so there wasn't that much of manpower to have significantly bigger archer bands than the other nations, who used different bows, or other projectile weapons. It's a bad weapon, deal with it.
A lot of modern speed shooters use low poundage bows and don't extend to full draw. This means that while the can fire huge numbers of arrows they dont have enough power to send heavy war arrows down range with enough force to injure a person in even a padded gambison. People in the middle ages were not physicaly superior to modern people. Except for the top nobility they would have had worse nutrition than a modern westerner which is a key factor in physical size and stregnth. In addition disease and hard labour caused long term physical problems. While a modern office worker would be less fit anyone who regularly worked out would be much stronger due to the extra protein to build muscle. Crossbows didn't actually have more penatrative power due to a shorter draw-span and a lighter projectile (which incidentaly caused it to be less accurate at range and loose speed quickly). The perception of archers in the 100 years war raining arrows down on the enemy from great range also as problems as a lot of art from the period shows the archers firing at relativly close range.
joseph Hooton Now this is the superstitial(or how you write it) viewpoint of middle ages. You are really going to argue about their art? They didn't shown archers firing in long distances, because they wanted both armies/ soldiers to be seen, not to mention that they glorified close combat, so nope, they are not reliable sources. If you want to learn something about the middle ages, read some war books/ documents from that era, or just use your damn logic(the hell do you want to fight with bows and light armor with your enemy so close? it's suicide!). And have you seen a crossbow in real life? Or a crossbow bolt for an instance? They are 2-3 times bigger than the normal arrows, not to mention what BS bolt the siege crossbows used! You needed a mechanical tool just to ready that damn thing. And what is this bs about nutrition? You know how well fed the soldiers were? Lots of them were low class nobility, and sorry to break it to you, but what you consider workout, and what phisical labor the middle ages's people did, is on a whole different level. And their physicue was different too! Clothes/ armour what was found to belong in that era, were a lot bigger than our average persons wear. And please, stop comparing today's people with the soldiers of the past, they were fighting and training all day just to survive, while in today's millitary you practice how to pull a trigger at the best time. They were on a whole different level.
By now bolt action rifles should be a thing in Warhammer fantasy...or at least lever action.
i believe that the steam tank should have been a dwarven unit !!!
I would point out that it's guerilla warfare and not gorilla warfare, but seeing as you were talking about the beastmen, maybe it is gorilla warfare after all.
I think on of the most common mistake in talking about progress us ignoring how important peace it to it.
Can you really say the chaos dwarves are the most advanced? They build metall thingys and posses them with daemons. Thats more magic than technology isnt it?
yes the golems were a thing in the fluff and the are around before the first war against chaos the go after that
The whole technological state of the warhammer world does not make any sense, there's way too many holes in the story. I absolutely hate the dwarfs going more and more towards a steam-punkey race, looks absolutely ridiculous and it does not make any sense why they can build helicopters (!) while the rest has hardly invented the wheel -_-.
What were the original gyrocopters powered off of if they didn't have steam power at first
Would AI work as intended in the warhammer fantasy world?
so do dwarfs are more advanced than chaos dwarfs ?
no skaven tech? warp power is the best power
It's covered in the skaven army video
Hmm.. industrial revolution... id like too see it(just google beat cavalry too see what im thinking) in kislev
Happy you're back!!!
Could you do a mordheim video
You forget abaut Kislev. And abaut Tilea. And Estalia.
Do you think they're will be another Warhammer MMO?
+Dave R Doubt it, no game has been able to capture the "magic" that World of Warcraft had. Even WoW cant capture what it had in the past. They have lost half their players in one expansion.
+Evirthewarrior actually after the fan reboot (official server shut down in december 2013) amd pve slowly getțng fixed the world is great. while only hang acces to the empire, ulthuan and dwarf areas (and land of the dead - not implemented yet) its great. kinda bias - nostalgia, sorry :)
[Fyfaen] Shaggy Fan reboot? Link?
Evirthewarrior returnofreckoning.com Check it out! Private server! The devs are fixing more and more stuff everyday, and adding some new things as well! Right now theres tiers 1-3. There's quite a few of us on there, having fun and living/fighting/dying in the Old World! Its free to play and a lot of fun.
i hope the next itteration of warhammer is an industrial revolutionary type time cx
+MonarchTherapsids Inostran WW1 ERA is what I wanna see
StellWair exactly! warhammer already has alot of technology, so a leap to bolt action high caliber rifles, breach loading artillery, tanks, and machine guns isn't that much of a leap lol
And trench warfare lends itself nicely to the table top. Plus no one really does fantasy WW1
StellWair no shit that would be very unique. big ass land battleships for orcs o.o omg... that would be badass. maybe armored zeplins for the empire.
+MonarchTherapsids Inostran A more steampunk Warhammer Fantasy would be fantastic. Tons of new potential for units, lore, changed kingdom territory from conquest, and more. It'd have to be done well and with serious thought to keep the theme unique to Warhammer and prevent one race becoming extinct as they all would need to have their own taste on it to prevent duplicate armies both in play style and tactics.
Enchanted Gromril pickaxes are canon
U also missed out that bows in general are more expensive than guns, besides the aforementioned simpler to use fact.
do a reaction video to the new dev walkthrough of black fire pass!!!
i have a longbow and indeed the first few times its very though to fire
do you by any chance do 40k? or know a channel that does 40K videos like yours? i want to know because i dont like Fantasy.
If you don't like fantasy why are you here?
***** thanks
Mr Sniffes because as the Blood Ravens say, "Knowledge is power, guard it well."
I was ready to dislike you for your attitude to fantasy. But with that delicious comment I think you just won an internet, here take one I insist.
No need to inovate? You live in a world in constant war?
if you live in constant war perhaps those resources would be better spent putting more bodies on the field
does anyone know where i can find a list of materials from warhammer?
TheRWS96 The Black Library
thx for the video arch :)
Americas never did volley fire or collum march and even during WW1 the british still wanted to line up in front of the machine guns in enemy trenches
The American Civil war combat was line volley and column combat
Iron Gamer yea so many died in the american civil war because the military leaders kept trying to use Napoleonic strategy's and tactics
ThnkIaA i was talking about WW1 and 2
but the confederates did the same thing so lol
whats with steam tank warhammer
europe went into a dark age around the time we even knew the chinese had that technology so there wasn't organized advancement, also if it wasn't necessary to advance how the hell did we invent airplanes there was no need there was no real way and guess what we used them for far more than war and when WW1 happened sure we plopped some weapons on them but planes already were everywhere also. this invention and rapid spread happed before the hindenburg so thats not why it became so big
Malakai Makaisson in novels.. did a submarine.. wich failed xD.
can you do a video explain the war of the beard??
+george to put it simply, dark elves pretended to be high elves and raided the dwarfs. dwarfs get pissed, dwarfs send messenger to high elves demanding they stop, high elves cut off dwarf messenger's beard. massive war that ends up with the dwarfs winning but being a shadow of their former selves
Total War just uploaded a video of the Luminarch of Hysh...
What the hell is that
Ryan Bray "Magic"
The sound seems much lower than it used to (had to turn my speakers up 40% (normally on 34% (so 74%))).
Btw, thanks for the video. I'm making a fantasy world myself, so understanding technological advance and how it cooperates with magic is pretty important, as I intend to have almost the same timeline as ours, with this particular worldset(so the mechanics of innovation are cruical, so to say). It's a bit sad to see what they did to their universe, just for keeping it in stagnation, given that there are not too many popular and well made fantasy settings, and the fact that they just crushed another potential source for studying. Well, that is what you get from profit oriented companies.
"Technologie" - What, are you French or something, mate? :p
***** Ire towards the Swedes*
Direct the rightous ire the right way good sir! Denmark is like the responsible parent of scandinavia, with a minor drug abuse going on in secrect.
Nope German