Checking Intel’s Power Profiles: Baseline, Performance, and Extreme
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- Article: hwbusters.com/cpu/checking-in...
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[Update] There is a typo in the Iccmax value for Extreme. The correct is 400A.
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We needed this vid and article. No issues noticed on my 13700K so far, as well.
Nice one as always. One thing i don't understand about the profiles you tested: The IccMax value. You list 511A for Extreme, but Intel explicitly state "Never exceed 400A".
So the Extreme profle should be: 253W PL1, 253W PL2, 400A IccMax. And "Insane", yeah, just Unlimited/Maxed out (don't care about Intel spec).
Now, i don't know if this was because your board set these profiles like this. Because i noticed the same for MSI on their latest beta BIOS (they published a blog about it, you can find some comments on the MSI Forums, there's a thread "MSI BIOS Update to address Intel Raptor Lake Instability - enforce Intel standard power limits?").
In the cooler selection prompt of their new beta BIOS, MSI offer three settings, the first is "Intel Default Settings", which implements the Performance Profile. But for the other two settings, they kept their previous values: "Tower Cooler" 288W/288W/512A (way too much for any tower cooler, and breaking the 400A limit recommendation by Intel), and "Water Cooler", everything maxed out. Instead, MSI could've added a middle option "Extreme Profile" 253W PL1/PL2 and 400A IccMax for a normal i9, 320W PL1/PL2 and 400A for an i9 -KS version. Then rename the third option to "Unlimited" or so instead of "Water Cooler". Because even in water coolers, there are big performance differences from useless 120mm AIOs up to high-end 360mm+ ones.
Anyway. Another thing i would like to have seen in a video is regarding the calculation efficiency. How much energy was spent to complete the task? The ten-minute run of CB23 is a given workload, and yes, the higher the power limits, the faster it can finish (if the cooling can still deal with the enormous heat). But the power consumption rises a lot more than the performance. I would like to see this issue being talked about, and you have all the tools to measure the total Wh spent per ten minute CB23 run at different settings. It should become clear that running an i9 in Insane/Unlimited, for that last couple percent of performance, will be quite inefficient, in other words, it's "junk performance". The power draw becomes sky-high, difficult to cool, and only single-digit improvements in performance to show for it.
This is the real issue that Intel has: They completely thrown efficiency out the window. This started during 9th gen with the 9900K for the first time, and it has gotten worse and worse until we arrived at the monster of the 14900KS. I would say, they don't even need to make a -KS SKU. They should keep that as a normal 14900K and that's it. It's clear that this silicon is screaming for mercy already, pushed to these frequencies of 6 GHz and beyond. They are running the high-end CPUs at a V/F curve that only hardcore overclockers would've done in the past. And sometimes they are not even stable at stock settings anymore, apparently. So until the reviewers put more focus on calculation efficiency, this kind of "cheap" way to get more performance out of high-end CPUs (and GPUs, for that matter), it will not end. They push all the resulting problems like excessive power draw and heat to the end user.
I have measured efficiency in my CPU reviews. I'm sorry, but I didn't have time during this period, pre-Computex, to take more measurements in this section. About the IccMax you are right, it is a typo in my table.
I 100% agree with your points about what MSI should have changed in their BIOS. It’s certainty another lost opportunity. Also, I find Intel’s new table easy to mis-read if you’re not paying attention. A lot of people are still not getting the values correct. If you look at their table, you can see Intel’s desperation to try and distinguish between the 14th gen and 13th gen. In reality, we should have just had a K baseline and performance category, and a KS baseline and performance category. Far simpler. But again, they had to play silly-bugger games to make the 14th gen look better. And I agree that Intel has pushed their factory overclocks to absurd levels, and they did so at the expense of their customers. I predict that when the next generation of Ryzens hit the market, Intel is going to lose a lot of customers. And I have very little faith in Arrow Lake. Here’s a thought: When Arrow Lake chips hit the reviewer desks, what values are they going to use for Raptor Lake when comparing to Arrow Lake. I mean, the cynic in me thinks that it’s going to make Arrow Lake’s IPC look artificially inflated. Watch for that one. IMO, PR departments (and politicians) count on the general public having very short memories.
@@EddieGD21 Yes, the table can easily be misread, for example some settings like IccMax_App are not even exposed (on MSI at least), and some might mistake the 320A there for 320W etc., or they look at the wrong values for their CPU model.
About Arrow Lake: I'm really curious what they will recommend there for the Baseline, Performance and Extreme profiles (because it looks like those could become a thing now). Are they gonna stay the same? Which one will they tell the reviewers to use? They're surely find a way to make the IPC improvements look very nice compared to Raptor Lake.
It's good to know what the differences are in power profiles, thanks!
I have done all sorts since the news of degrading CPUs have come to light, undervolting, manual clocks etc. now I give up and set PL1&2 to 253w and powe limit to 307A. Running well on my 2x 13900k systems and my 14900k system. I think that will do until I upgrade. Good thing about running with constraints on power is gaming benches are much more consistent and with a decent cooler, no need to redline the temperature. Thanks for the video.
I always joked that Intel uses more power than the Sun with twice the heat...
Proud AMD user...
Great, thank you !!!
completely agreed with the concussion, and as some one else says, "thou shalt check voltages".
Thank you! 🙏🏼
I'm not interested in squeezing *every last bit* of performance out of my Intel CPU, but I _am_ concerned with preventing my motherboard's default BIOS settings from causing the aforementioned CPU to melt or burst into flames. 🔥
I'm a n00b and your articles (both here and at your website) are very helpful.
Thanks again. 👍🏼
EDIT: Typo Management
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GREAT VIDEO, thanks!
It's worth pointing out that what is now being described as the performance and extreme profiles have long been documented in the datasheet; everyone is behaving like these are new and a surprise - "stock" power/current limits are and have been well defined since its launch; when you increase the power/current limits beyond these settings you must consider that the voltage will drop due to the increased current. When intel burned the VID table into the CPU they did not test it at 350W obviously (which would result in a lower vmin due to the increased current). One should completely expect to have to compensate by raising either the AC_LL, Load Line calibration or adding a vcore offset. Going beyond the standard power/current limits does well fit the definition of overclocking and one should expect individual sample quality begins to introduce the typical silicon lottery scenario.
At least, people can use it as a heater in winter. This CPU is extremely inefficient.
Τελειο βιντεο φιλε , συντομο και περιεκτικο. Βαση αυτων που εχω δει , μπακαλιστικα υπολογιζω οτι το failure rate μεταξυ 13 gen - 14 gen ειναι χοντρικα 10%-90% . Αν συνδυασεις τα τρελλα power spikes εγω καταλαβαινω οτι με ενα ελαφρυ undervolt για τους 13 gen και το ιδιο για τοyς 14 gen + 100-200 mhz downclock υα τρεχουν ολα απροβληματιστα. educated guess πεσ το ...
Compared to the power supply unit, how much impact does a motherboard with high-end VRMs versus one with budget VRMs have on CPU power delivery? Can a high end motherboard compensate for a cheap power supply or vice versa?
It helps but in a degree. If the VRMs get very low voltages with high ripple, it will tough to cope.
great video
I need some input, I have a refurbished msi mpg a1000g bought from scan it was missing the 12vhpwr cable for my 4080 super.
I contacted scan they said they could send me a 12vhpwr cable from a msi meg ai1300p 1300w psu, they look the same, same length braided etc.
Would this cable be fine to use?
Is there anyway to check they use the same 12vhpwr connectors
Thanks
as far as I know all 12VHPWR cable have to follow the same design, so normally it should work. To be sure it is ideal to check it with a multimeter though
@@HardwareBusters noted, thank you
@@HardwareBusters I emailed msi support. They said it was fine to use the 12vhpwr to 12vhpwr
Where can I buy a CYBENETICS t shirt? Amazon?
We need to start offering them though an eshop. So far we haven't thought of that to be frank :)
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