"We do not discuss it with outsiders." Definitely in the top 10 lines in all of Trek. Maybe 2nd to another Word line, "We killed our gods. They were more trouble than they were worth."
But then why were Kor, Kang and Koloth smooth in TOS episodes but then had the ridges in the DS9 episodes that they were in? Did they undergo more genetic therapy in the intervening years to correct the augmentations?
@@ArgonTheAware in one of the Enterprise episodes dealing with this I believe it mentioned that cosmetic surgery could be used to correct the appearance.
@@ChaoticOrcPaladin According to Memory Alpha: "A cure was eventually created by Phlox which halted the virus in the first stage, retaining the changes in appearance but with no enhanced strength, speed, or endurance. This left millions of Klingons without their ridges, an alteration that was even passed on to their children, though it was hoped that one day gene therapy would be developed to reverse the effects." So that would explain that Kor, Kang and Koloth were children of Augments and took the gene therapy when it became available
@Noel Pizarro Also as a Top 10 Line. Q: Q the miserable, Q the desperate! What must I do to convince you people? Lieutenant Worf: Die. Q: Oh, very clever, Worf. Eat any good books lately?
Knowing Geordi's character, I think it's far more likely that after an investigation proved his visor was how the Duras sisters found out the shield frequency, he chose to get the implants out of a sense of guilt and not because Starfleet ordered him to as punishment or as an ultimatum.
that's a good point. it was his job keeping that ship safe and in one piece, and poured himself into that, and because of his visor he 'failed spectacularly', or at least, he could have seen it that way from his perspective. may have even seen it as he 'betrayed' the ship itself, and perhaps blamed the visor _itself_ so he got rid of it out of guilt. interesting.
The problem with that is that he didn't do that the first time when his VISOR was used as a way to spy and reprogram his brain. That said, there is an explanation. What he had said to Pulaski was that optical implants were actually inferior. He wouldn't be able to see as much with normal eyes. But, by First Contact, we see that his eyes are not normal. So maybe the first time, the tech wasn't good enough, and he justified it as just a one time thing. Maybe he even did something to help prevent it from happening again. But, when it happened again, he decided it wasn't worth it, and looked into artificial eyes, and found a set he liked. Heck, maybe it was even still experimental, but he was able to convince Starfleet that he needed them because of what happened in Generations.
I mean in the real world we have laser surgery and implantable contact lenses and yet most people prefer to wear glasses. But with the technology improving more and more people are getting eye surgery that used to be reluctant in the past. So makes sense to me.
The way Enterprise explained the smooth Klink origin was a masterstroke in my humble opinion. It fit so well with the OG lore and explained by Worf during the time travel ep that redeems the Archer era and firmly establishes it as CANON despite how some diehard fanatic Trek fans saying that the Archer era was a "soft reboot" or reset/retcon and not at all canon. Some may hate Enterprise, but a few of us loved that series - too bad they ended it in the worst way possible that even I would agree to disavow that last episode with a passion.
And the really frigged up looking Klingons in Discovery can be explained as failed attempts at reversing the effects of the Augment Virus. And just for laughs throw in Zora of Tiburon. She was that hot looker with the sexy eyebrows from the TOS episode Savage Curtain. She was known for doing genetic tinkering on her less than eager fellow Tiburons. So I could see the Klingons enlisting her help to restore themselves. Unfortunately that resulted in some really messed up looking Klingons.
@Lisa Philpot I feel like the new trek destroys what trek really is. DS9 was so awesome because for most of the series they actually had continuity and that continuity carried through to the movies abs Voyager. The new trek does not ever have continuity. They also don’t respect the ships or stations as quasi characters. I am scared they will ruin DS9.
@@SJDevenney1 Could not have said it better myself. Current trek doesn’t seem to respect all the hard work that came in that 18 year span before it. Logic, distance, space and time all mean nothing in this current take, relax real heart and good stories and most importantly it lacks the spirit of Star Trek that was with all the other series, continuity flowed perfectly from all the other series until 2017 when Star Trek became an unrecognizable IP. Enjoy what you like but there is a HUGE disconnect from what was made before in that 18 year span and what is now being made under secret hideout, real shame. RIP Star Trek.
In DS9 Thomas Riker (Will Riker's clone) was imprisoned. Cisco made a deal with Ducat that Thomas would surrender only if he was not executed. So, he was cryo-suspended. He wasn't killed, but he wasn't alive either. Post DS9, when Kira gave up Odo, she wanted him still but eventually she got over him. She then got news of what had happened to Thomas and she remembers her promise that she would find a way to get him out. She launches covert rescue and gets Thomas back. Her attraction for him when first met was clear. And his feeling being same as shown end of that same episode starts a new chapter for Thomas and Kira after rescue. Oh, Thomas after entering the run-about while full mouth kiss is "I've always had a thing for older women." Kira, retorts, "who did you just call old". Thomas, "well it has been 8 years." Kira: well you were still having birthdays while you were suspended and when we get back to DS9, we gone celebrate all of them.
The other reason it'd be asinine for DS9 to be a dream-apart from the major continuity problems-is it'd undo the main message of that episode. The reason why that final scene of Benny looking at Sisko's reflection is so powerful is it shows that many years after this unknown black writer struggled to attain even baseline respect, here is a black man who is massively respected as a high ranking commander of an entire space station. Metaphorically, it was like decades of progress were hanging between their eyes as they looked at each other. To cast aside Sisko as 'just a dream' essentially unwrites all of the progress the episode aimed to show. Sisko HAS to be real. It's the only thing that makes sense. In fact, Benny's line about, "I created it!" works even better under that interpretation! On top of the literal interpretation of the line (that Benny, in his time, invented a character in a fiction novel), there is the metaphorical Benny who imagined living in a better world one day. The unnamed, unknown Bennys of the past who fought to be accepted and recognised are the ones who 'created' these paths for these REAL Siskos of our future.
I was perfectly happy accepting Klingons from TOS as a meta concession of the evolution of the franchise. But I liked the tie in with the eugenics wars from Enterprise.
"It's was all a dream" is the most pitiful, lazy, hackneyed movie device ever. SO glad DS9 didn't ultimately go with that route. It would have trashed the entire series. The prophets were so poorly fleshed out, that to write everything off as just their mental machinations would have been an appalling devaluation of all the events in the series.
Agreed. It makes a mockery of everything they wrote before and shows they have little respect for their audience. "It was all just a dream" was already disappointing when they did in "The Wizard of Oz" back in 1939.
I dunno. The ending doesn't necessarily make it a dream of Benny. Considering he is part prophet, there are all sorts of timeywimey things that could be going on. It could be a vision or a future echo, he could be one of several Sisko's the prophets created, an alternate future incarnation of the same Sisko, Benny and Sisko could both be one of multiple Avatars or manifestations of the same higher dimensional being, living in parallel from its point of view, the options are endless. It could even be a schizoid embolism for Sisko.
Unfortunately in Star Trek lore, not a single solitary book is considered canon, only what’s appeared on screen. Which invalidates most of this list, which is a shame, I loved the Q squared book.
Hahaha...Yeah, that’s even against what Roddenberry himself stated. That, my friend, was the declaration of a guy who came after that didn’t want you to notice his mistakes which were often on screen anyway. Everything goes in public domain eventually for scholars and those who love it can sort it out. Why not just create it now out of what works for you in the meantime?
Trelane actually had parents, but in Voyager, Q said they didn't reproduce that way before he suggested Janeway have his child. Also, Trelane's parents were unfamiliar with humans and how vulnerable they are, unlike the all-knowing Q.
IQ was a damned good read. It was stupid and exaggerated but as it was narrated by Q I enjoyed it. The emotional moment was a tad shaded as it was a copy of kirk meeting the lady in the past and had to die but overall it was fun.
@@randystegemann9990 The parent thing is a decent point. The Q not having kids thing not so much. Time isn't a barrier to the Q for all we know. He could've been born centuries after VOY. Then just decided or was forced to live in the TOS timeframe.
For so long I have been looking to a reboot of Quantum Leap where an older special operations commando goes through time looking for his long-lost older brother. This time the military guy is blipping through time, with a scientist/historian trying to keep him "up to date" with where/when he is.
My mom was a fan of Quantum Leap and thought that if they did a continuation they could have it where Sam and his wife had a child from the one episode where he did return home and that child would leap in time to look for him Scott Bakula pitched this idea him self now that NCIS is ending
I kinda like the "Ferengi play dumb" theory. I couldn't say what episode exactly, but it was one of the few times Quark is on the Defiant. He talks about how he likes dealing the Federation. He can act dumb, charge more, and the Federation just pays him, or something to that effect. He doesn't have to be a shrewd and cunning business man, like he has to be with everyone else.
I like the “Ferengi play dumb” theory, too, because it always bothered me that if Ferengi were that low-IQ, then how the heck were they a warp capable species?
@@dff19707 No ... Bad theory. Why would they *play* dumb. What profit motive? Better theory is they were escapees of a rehabilitation colony and mentally ill even by ferengi standards. Also Ferengi did not develop warp. They bought technology from another species trading worthless crystals in exchange. Only much later to find that crystals were dilithium. The whole history of feregie has to based on profit and the rules of aquisition, written by the greatest feregie of them all and the first grand negus: negus (who is quark)! That makes no sense -- oh yes it does. Quark falls in time after end of DS9.
@@joeboxter3635 They would play dumb to acquire dangerous technology. Think about it, when you wanna get rid of something and there’s this very stupid person, you would think “he’s too dumb to even figure out how to activate it”, and he would be the perfect person to give dangerous devices, that way the Ferengi would acquire weapons they could trade with other species, maximizing their profit.
In Season 7 ep 2 "Shadows and Symbols" The prophets speak to Sisko through the image of Sarah. Saying that "The Kosst Amojan (Pah-Wraiths) tried to trick you with a false vision, but you did not waiver. " Meaning Benny Russel was just an attempt by the Pah-wraiths to distract and fool Sisko to follow the Prophets.
@@DavidEdwards9801 Fans of Quantum Leap were outraged the last episode stated Dr. Beckett "was never seen again..." This was finally solved! He started the Temporal Cold War.
It seems to me that only one of these theories, the source of the smooth Klingons (great two parter for Enterprise by the way) is the only one that truly became "fact," ie. canon. Most of these entries are either Beta canon (kind of like Legends continuity in Star Wars, ie. not canon) or the fan fiction of the crew of these series. Some of it really pretty good. Alexander Siddig and Andrew Robinson's vodcasts were a pleasant surprise during the pandemic (by the way, both Cirroc Lofton and Nana Visitor reprised their roles for the vodcasts). I also subscribe to the theory of Tralane being Q Jr. and that the implications mean that the Q order of Star Trek episodes are contrary to running order in vastly wild ways (one even has two temporal placements). However, non of these (except for the Klingon thoery) are in fact canon. If we were to accept these as fact, then one of the Ferengi from the Last Outpost (ie. their introduction) would immediately leave his crew and open a bar on a giant Cardassian bicycle wheel. Why? Because Armin Shimmerman has always felt that both Ferengi characters he played were Quark. Also, T'Pol in Enterprise was originally going to be T'Pau. However, much like the case of Tom Paris vs. Nick Laccarno, it came down to paying royalties to a witter. Geez, Star Trek does not like paying its writers.
This might not fall under the fan theory umbrella (although it still squarely counts as “Star Trek doesn’t reward its writers”), but there are things established in the novels that were later shown on screen. I’ve been reading Diane Duane’s “Rihannsu” series and there’s clearly so much worldbuilding she did for the Romulans that was adopted into Trek canon. For example, the idea that Romulans have four names and the last is a secret name only revealed to their spouse/partner was integrated into Picard in a scene between Narek and Soji (one of the very few things I actually liked about that show…). The structure of government is quite similar too, although not exactly the same. I seem to recall Spock’s learning disability being a fan theory as well, and that was covered in Discovery season 2 with Vulcan dyslexia/l’tak terai. I remember reading an interview with a woman who was a fan writer back in the 70s and she said that when The Animated Series was being made, the writers regularly consulted the body of fan works to see what had already been written about it. Like in the episode “Yesteryear”, the design of the sehlat was directly inspired by art published in fanzines or sent in to the studio by fans. Back in the day when copyright was less intense.
@@kevinshumaker3753 Agreed, however, if I remember correctly, the series ending of Newhart was to take a shot at Dallas for writing off an entire season and at St. Elsewhere for turning the entire series into just the imagination of an autistic child. The Newhart ending was pure genius, an absolute surprise, and wonderfully hilarious.
That would have been the most depressing ending for Sisko. The whole show was the fever dream of an oppressed man living in the 40s? Chiiiild I'm so glad Ira was overruled on that. Whew!
@@medexamtoolscom As a gay guy, I’d usually agree, but the subtext was within the show itself before the writers put a pin in it, and even the actors agree. It’s fair game 🤷♂️
@@lewiskazinsky7334 So.... does this mean that Faith Salie's wanting her character to return and David Mack's "did she come back, or is a Certain Numbered Agency playing matchmaker?" storyline in the DS9 Relaunch novels will just end up sharing the same fate as Ashley Judd's bid to be in Nemesis?
Smooth headed "Augment" Klingons are also more devious and subtle than their predecessors as their brains are more human in shape. Still doesn't explain why the Romulans stopped having a strong sense of honour and became the sneaky ones though.
That's actually easy, politics. My thoery is that, after the Tal Shiar screwed up Imperial expansion plans by losing control of Vulcan and the failure of the drone ships, they were on outs with those in power, especially after their actions led to a war that didn't get the Empire much beyond a hard border which definitely didn't mesh with expansion. The more honorable military would step up, making sure they were in charge of major projects, even sneaky ones like the cloaking device tests. This is probably why they were able to swing an alliance with the Klingons, despite most future interactions outside of the Duras family has them expressing nothing but contempt. The Tomed incident probably changed things, allowing the Tal Shiar to regain power, and this time they made sure to keep a tight hold on it. (Note this is just my personal theory, taken from on screen evidence as well as a few beta canon sources, like the Starfleet Command game, where the two competing Romulan elite organizations were the Tal Shiar, and the Tal Praex, aka the Imperial Guard.)
factionalism exists in all power structures, in large ones it results in 'parties' forming, some of these parties would have favoured the klingons over the feds, others the feds over the klingons, and others laying low and trying to make both fight and weaken each other. when parties like this fight, they have to rely on underhanded-deviousness (politics!). so some would have been deceitful, other more honourable, and the nature of their system did encourage deviousness by all parties...
@@jarradscarborough7915 True, the real problem comes when idealists of whatever stripe take power. Then you have such BRILLIANT decisions as Chancellor K'Mpec's order to disband Klingon Intelligence because it is "dishonourable"
Interesting list, but it's mis-named. Long-standing Star Trek policy is that novels are never considered canon. And certainly if the writers for the show had an idea that never made it onto the screen, it shouldn't count as canon.
Kind of splitting hairs there. I think it's more accurate to say the writers consider some pars of the movies (and by extension a lot of other parts of the franchise.) to be like "soft" beta canon. Really because it would take much convoluted writing than they have the time, budget or energy to pull it all together. YATI: Yet Another Trek Inconstancy, is a term from the early days of TNG, and it fits. We would debate them, come up with "What If?" situations NEVER dismiss it as Non Trek or Not "Real Canon. It is IMHOdisrespectful to the people who worked on it and who like it flaws and all. Broadly saying the movies just aren't canon doesn't work. Same goes for the animated series and a lot of Enterprise. Specific inconstancies may never get mentioned ever unless someone wants to take the time to work it into a story they want to tell/
Yeah it all being a dream would have been really silly for the series as a whole. I also think it diminishes Sisko being awesome since it would not be "real" but just the hope of someone
I keep going back and forth between thinking it'd be a dreadful idea and a damn powerful piece of television. Think about it; if it was all a dream, it meant Benny Russel imagined the people he knew in his life as scientists, engineers, doctors... and as courageous heroes. The jerk cops that beat him get to be the enemy, eventually vanquished by the valiant heroes once and for all. But also it'd cheapen the entirety of the franchise.
@@AndrewD8Red I’m a genuine fan as well, but I think the ending already cheapened the franchise, specifically with what happens to Sisko. I’m not angry about it, but I’m not thrilled with Sisko just jumping into a fire pit.
Bollocks. They did go there with Jadzia and her gay encounters. Nothing to do with the Network. This was the 90s, not the 60s. Garak wasn't queer, he was just a refined English cardie gentleman.
Definitely glad the "all a dream" ending didn't happen. Can you imagine how badly that would've gone over on the only Trek show at the time with a black lead?
As theories go, my own one has also been an attempt to nip in the bud the very dramatic appearance change for Klingons, in Discovery. And it’s a very simple theory, which also helps explain how they appear in Star Trek : Into Darkness - a different timeline, but still one where the same reason would make sense. And that reason being: In the 23rd century, as mutations which had altered Klingon foreheads were just starting to leave their gene pool, the entire Klingon culture went through a widespread phase that made them appear so different from in the 22nd century. It was a phase where Klingons of any gender, and mostly adults (from what we can tell) became fond of body modification. I’ve worked into this theory an idea, that an ancient DNA sample had been found early in this era (late 22nd century, you could say), which led major influencers in Klingon culture at the time to believe that they had found the “original appearance” of Kahless - when actually this was just an extrapolation from very degraded DNA, which they couldn’t even be sure was pure Klingon. If you want to go really deep and off-canon with it, and take a cue from Star Trek Online (which I did not originally when thinking this up), you could even say that the actual DNA sample was likely from a Fek’Lhiri. But the whole point is, these influencers then made popular this idea that the “true, most honourable, and most Kahless-like” appearance for a Klingon to bare, was like this. And so many Klingons then appeared hairless for a time, much more scary than previously, with massive crests on the back of their heads, and many had a grey tint to their skin - I can’t explain that fully, but I think part of it was that lighter skin colours started becoming a target of prejudice, owing to this cultural revolution. Because yes, even Klingons can be colourist! We saw that with Voq being viewed as an outcast originally, due to being unable to change his skin pigment through modifications at all, *because* he was an albino - at least, that’s what I’m going with, in order to make this theory work. Part of that body-modding would of course have included more piercings - which you do see on some Discovery Klingons, but you also see it with those Klingons we see on Qo’Nos in “Into Darkness” - again, their culture went through a body-modding phase, just not as profoundly - or possibly just as profoundly, but then it turned back sooner, due to a butterfly effect from the Narada incursion. In Discovery’s timeline, post-season 1, L’Rel as Chancellor would have been one of the first to begin influencing this change back to a more “natural” look for Klingons - and this explains why we see her, and other Klingons, with hair and a slightly different appearance in Discovery season 2. Of course, I have absolutely over-thought this. But that’s just who I am! 😆
I just can’t imagine how it “all being a dream” would be satisfying in any way. I mean, that would have implications for ST:V, as that is how Paris and Kim first met. And that is just one example. The largest implication would probably be the war with the Dominion. I just think that as talented as Moore is, this is one time he was dead wrong and needed to be reigned in.
Was there ever an in universe reason why Koloth, Kang, and the other classic Klingon on DS9 got their ridges back? I guess you could assume they found some kind of cure to the augment virus, but I don’t remember them saying anything about it.
Not onscreen I think. It's really too bad that none of the novels were ever filmed. "Excelsior: Forged in Fire" would have made a great miniseries imo. It ties up a bajillion loose ends, including how Kang, Kor and Koloth got their ridges, in a wonderful way. I won't spoil any more, just encourage everyone to read it.
No, but I believe there was offhand talk about how some infected people might get plastic surgery. But that could just be a fan theory I'm misremembering as canon.
Didn't Phlox have a line mentioning that it'd take the Klingons about a century to completely cure the augment virus? To me, that would explain Koloth, Kor and Kang's updated appearance: the Empire developed a treatment, and administered it sometime between Kirk's five-year mission and the V'ger incident.
"It was all a dream" would have turned into the St. Elsewhere Problem, and bring into question the canonicity of everything connected to the Star Trek Universe.
I remember back in the early 90s on a Star Trek BBS there was a guy who advanced the Klingon-Human hybrid theory to explain TOS Klingon appearance and he was very widely reviled for this. When it turned out to be true I thought it was hillarious.
The Klingons appearance evolved; the early make-up was much faster and cheaper to apply and was far less a shock to the audience. Once the premise was tested, they could risk the more elaborate make-up. Funny to think the entire enterprise began with the portrayal so well done by Barbara Eden's husband where they were doomed to fight forever on the original Enterprise.
@@BigJeremyBeyer “beta canon” is a misleading term. For something to be considered canon, it is accepted as genuine within the universe and, though beta may follow its own continuity, it’s not genuine in the true universe, if that makes sense. Fan fiction under any other name is still fan fiction. (I’m not arguing with you or at you; I’m just ranting about the terminology.)
I think you missed some of what was cool about the Klingon question. The two most popular fan theories at the time were incorporated into the DS9 episode when O'Brien and Bashir ask Worf, which is when he give the iconic line about not discussing it with outsiders. And then, in Enterprise, we find out that both are true. It was both due to genetic engineering and a viral mutation. It stated as the former, but then unintentionally spread as the latter.
I still like the explanation of the Radiation from the Klingons unsecured Reactors in interaction with the Cloaks caused a Mutation which has been become a Sybol of Strenght in the Klingon Empire as only the "Warriors" serving on Ships were originally affected. But, the Mutation were dominant, so their Children were born with "the Mark of the Warrior" as well and thus in 100 Years the whole Appearance had changed.
As far as the future person who spoke to Sillick, I feel that was a Romulan trying to change the past. I don't think it Archer. We see Romulans appearing in season 4, but that gets stopped because the series was cancelled.
Using the Klingon type of the Original Series for the 1979 film (and beyond) assuredly would have been very problematic; the earlier, smooth-headed ones arguably bore a bit too strong a resemblance to the Mongolians, or Uzbecks, or Kazahks, or...
There is NO theory that Garak was interested sexually in Bashir. Bashir had very good friendships, and it was never going away from there. Bashir was too busy trying to get into Dax's pants.
i always interpreted that as garek being bored and decided a naive you doctor would be a fun plaything, and started playing his mindgames for entertainment, which would involve bashir being off-balance and uncomfortable, and make him wonder "is he or isn't he???". but later after helping with the implant, and perhaps letting him in further than he planned due to his loneliness, and also perhaps noticing through his own advanced perception (due to O O training) that bashir was... different, garek may have decided to advance his friendship and stop with the games, and become more of a mentor figure, which was likely more satisfying as his personality shifted due to living with 'federation-types'.
Interesting to hear about the Preservers. The Shatnerverse novels go so far as to link the obelisk creators from TOS with the progenitor race from TNG.
STO added the Iconians to that link. Which would also mean the Solanae (clicking aliens from "Schisms"), the neural parasites from "Conspiracy" and the Elachi are also linked to the Preservers.
I wonder why Garrick was thrown out of the Cardassian military, now I know why. However the actor who played Doctor Bashir was actually married to the actress who played Major Kira, and she wore the tightest spandex in the Quadrant. Who would desert that babe? Garrick did not have the hips nor the upper chest structure to compete. As for the Benny episode, it was not about "A Dream". It was about "Racism". Avery Brooks was too serious an Actor and a Black American to have it any other way. If it turned out to be "A Dream", it would have destroyed the Star Trek series faster than a thousand Quantum Torpedoes.
My I point out just because some fans see it as their own "head cannon" dones not make it cannon, even if the actors are on board it still doesn't make it cannon.
I love all these theories, but for some reason. The one about Garak being gay would actually have been perfect. Y'see the Cardassian people are quite family oriented. Episodes of DS9 and books "The Never Ending Sacrifice" ( both in show and the really good real one about Rugal) really demonstrate the importance of family in the culture. I think that homosexuality in the Cardassian Union would have been outlawed to a degree that it would be extremely RARE for a Cardassian to be gay. Completely unheard of on the Homeworld. His activity in the obsidian order exposed him to other cultures where it wasn't. Possibly he needed to interact with a gay person as part of a spy mission and he started out faking it, either with medical or technological help. Secretly he liked it. And he got caught, probably even by Tain, who would just expel him for it, keeping the homosexuality secret because it would have ruined his standing too. It would really have given the character more depth while also being a bigger story talking about tolerance AND more insight into Cardassia. It would probably not have been done mainly because in a lot of human cultures in the recent past and up to today, it's punishable by death, totally illegal, or just really frowned on. Islamic countries executed them at one time and up until the 1960s, outlawed in Great Britain. In 1993 only barely accepted in many places in the US. It would have hit too close to home then. It would make a super good fan film today, but ONLY if you can cast a young Garak. Andrew Robinson could win an award or two playing old ass Garak. Former Castellan of the Cardassian Republic, signer of the Federation Membership Accords. Sitting in a chair telling the real story about how he went from the child of the head of an espionage organization to refugee to one of the liberators from The Dominion to leader and petitioner for Federation Membership. Heck, make it look like a documentary from the future and make Rilic the Cardassian/Bajoran/Human President a descendant. And make Cardassians an offshoot ( and the Skkrrea as well) of the Bajoran people. Anyone want to write that? Because I'd watch it. I'll act in it and consult creatively too.
Cosmetic surgery. Overcompensating. They turn agents into other species, forehead correction should be easy. The Enterprise episode's Klingon Dr. mentions he might go into cosmetic surgery.
Exactly what have we learned from Mo’C Cambridge Cambridge Galaxy survey? I’m too nervous to even concentrate at all. It’s also great. I think it’s a good idea to process whatever came out during that time. When he did his galaxy survey this afternoon mixed with the aquaria bridge. Whaddaya Tink?
I just saw the Bashir-Garek affair recently on Alexander’s channel. It is good. I recommend that y’all check it out. Alex Siddig puts out good stuff. 🖖🏻
The Bashir-Garak post DS9 clip is from a different story than described. The man bashir fell in loved with was no just some random guy. (Not to spoiler but you might guess). Love both stories.
It seems unlikely the klingon mutation spreaded throughout the whole klingon empire. It's way more likely, the mutated klingons bekame outcasts and lost their honor in the eyes of the unmutated klingons. That would also explain their unhonorable behaviour in TOS.
Love this list, I love the light-hearted low stakes episodes. Data's day is my favorite thing episode and take me out to the holidek is my favorite ds9.
Regarding the last point, about the different Klingons - Oh well, in the Klingon Empire there can be various races of Klingons on various planets, and even on the same planets.
Okay, I'm gonna be that guy: I'm always a bit cautious when it is claimed that a novel proves a theory, such as the "Trelane is a Q" one. I know that some current tie-in novels related to Discovery and Picard are considered canon, but as far as I know, most of the hundreds of novels from the past aren't official canon. I do stand corrected if someone officially in charge of the franchise have confirmed that Trelane is a Q according to that novel, though.
I agree with you. I have read that book and many others but it seems almost arbitrary ( or convenient) which books they choose to consider canon. There is another book trio series that was mentioned on a different video with three Q books, and it is an excellent series. Now I'm wondering if that is canon too?
@@LKLifestyles All research I've done so far indicates that the Discovery tie-ins and Picard tie-ins are basically the only canon books, apparently except from "Mosaic" and "Pathways" which tie in with Star Trek: Voyager, and "Countdown" which ties in with the JJ Abrams movies.
When I first saw the new Klingon look in a TOS-era movie, I automatically assumed it was a redressing of the makeup with a larger budget and accepted that as a matter of fact. Later, I learned that countless people were heavily offended by the change and they were only appeased when the writers came up with the unnecessary explanation of the augments.
I was well-connected in Sid’s fan network back in the day. Sid and Andy knew that the fans were on board with the G/B ship and would flirt outragously at con when it was brought up. We also heard a lot of rumors around the later 2nd season that Berman was not happy and all f a sudden Garek gets a young female potential interest. There’s *a lot* more story here and with Trek queerness in general that comes down to “Rick Berman and his lackeys suck.” But hey, love wins.
Imagine if Bashir and Garek did hook up. You could combine their names to Sandy; well the actor's names at least. The characters would be Barak, wait that exists.
@@pauljackson3491 Sid does dramatic reading of fluffy, PG rated G/B as a old arried couple with kids fic on his TH-cam channel. Also Ao3 is your friend. Enjoy.
@Gray Arcadian to be fair, Berman may not have had an issue with it; but well written gay characters were not considered an acceptable by mainstream America. They were accepted as camp or comedy characters. Ellen DeGeneres came out in 1997 and her show took a huge hit audience wise, sponsor wise and was canceled. The DS9 episode “Rejoined” which aired in 1995, which had Dax meeting a past life same sex spouse, was considered controversial. And ratings took a minor hit that episode.
@@Lukecash2 My sympathy is nil. This is Trek. If you don't have the courage to do the right thing, then you shouldn't sign on. Also, they have always had queer cast and crew, so this topic was not some abstract concept. DS9's revamp for the straight, white, and young demographic tells me everything I need to know about Bergman's fortitude. A lot of the stories from the actresses, Andy, and Sid back that assertion.
I wonder how painful it would have been for Kang, Koloth, and Kor to go from Smooth Klingons to Ridged Klingons. And when/how did this happen for them? They were smooth in TOS and Ridged in DS9.
Garak and Bashir were NEVER romantically attracted to one another. Garak was suspicious of romance full stop. I mean, his confusion over Ziyal is a good example. Bashir and O'Brien on the other hand? I'd ship them every day of the week.
Plot twist Garak was a Tsundere and actually in love with Gul Dukat this explains all the back and forth between them and in the episode where the Klingons attack DS9 he was actually protecting Dukat
I wish that was true but Tom's story to Captain Janeway during the pilot episode was too different to even pretend the same thing happened that got him kicked out of Starfleet. For one thing, he was already a commissioned officer on a real mission and got multiple people killed or injured on that mission and not just one cadet like Nick did. If royalties for the writer wasn't really an issue, they should've explained away his name change which would've been easy enough and then called him the same person as in the TNG episode "The First Duty". I would've loved it that way.
Talking generations. Not a theory, but often misunderstood part of the plot. Soran isn't a weapons genius. In fact he is conning the klingons. Stole the trilithium from the romulans and then got geordie to teach him the rest. He had some knowledge from Armagosa but geordie filled the gaps to appease the klingons " tell me everything you know about trilithium."
It's a nebulous point no pun intended, because he already had a working prototype at Armagosa. Before he had geordie and the film is kinda janky in its logic, but the clear idea was Soran was a listener, a conman intelligent and knew how to play people like a cold reader mentalist. He hadn't planned on kidnapping geordie but its was good fortune he did it accelerated his plans because he could get some knowledge. Again he already had the torpedoes on the planet ready etc etc.
The Archer theory - I would be quite cool, if the man responsible for founding of the Federation would be plucked out of the time to help rebuild it once again.
Here's a fan theory from the boardgame Starfleet Battles (which flourished in the idle years between Old G. and the first movie): Klingons were slavers and their starship crews had a high number of slave races. I contend that the NG Worf-like Klingons overthrew and exterminated their masters (the Old G. Mandarin-looking Klingons) and expunged them from history because they don't like to be reminded that a) they were slaves and b) all their technology was taken from their former masters.
12:10 ... dammit. For a sec I thought they said BRUCE Campbell. That would be epic. If Woody Harrelson gets to be in Star Wars lore, then why not Bruce Campbell? Sadly, it hasn't happened... yet.
#7 - The Ancient Ones bear a very strong resemblance to the Founders from DS9 - a way to eventually create more tools for them to use. Or the Ancient Ones evolved into the Founders.
The Deep Space 9 "Dream" was probably shot down just for the fact of what happened on "Dallas" with Bobby's death and the whole season being a dream. Fans were pissed off.
I don't recall, how were the Klingons able to decode the signal from Geordi's VISOR? The Enterprise once used a direct feed from the VISOR, but it was mostly gibberish that only Geordi could understand after having used it for so long. But in the movie, it just shows up as a video signal, which is not how Geordi sees the world; it's not a camera, it's a sensor array...
"We do not discuss it with outsiders." Definitely in the top 10 lines in all of Trek. Maybe 2nd to another Word line, "We killed our gods. They were more trouble than they were worth."
But then why were Kor, Kang and Koloth smooth in TOS episodes but then had the ridges in the DS9 episodes that they were in? Did they undergo more genetic therapy in the intervening years to correct the augmentations?
@@ArgonTheAware in one of the Enterprise episodes dealing with this I believe it mentioned that cosmetic surgery could be used to correct the appearance.
@@ChaoticOrcPaladin According to Memory Alpha: "A cure was eventually created by Phlox which halted the virus in the first stage, retaining the changes in appearance but with no enhanced strength, speed, or endurance. This left millions of Klingons without their ridges, an alteration that was even passed on to their children, though it was hoped that one day gene therapy would be developed to reverse the effects." So that would explain that Kor, Kang and Koloth were children of Augments and took the gene therapy when it became available
@Noel Pizarro damn good line too
@Noel Pizarro
Also as a Top 10 Line. Q: Q the miserable, Q the desperate! What must I do to convince you people?
Lieutenant Worf: Die.
Q: Oh, very clever, Worf. Eat any good books lately?
Knowing Geordi's character, I think it's far more likely that after an investigation proved his visor was how the Duras sisters found out the shield frequency, he chose to get the implants out of a sense of guilt and not because Starfleet ordered him to as punishment or as an ultimatum.
that's a good point. it was his job keeping that ship safe and in one piece, and poured himself into that, and because of his visor he 'failed spectacularly', or at least, he could have seen it that way from his perspective. may have even seen it as he 'betrayed' the ship itself, and perhaps blamed the visor _itself_ so he got rid of it out of guilt. interesting.
The problem with that is that he didn't do that the first time when his VISOR was used as a way to spy and reprogram his brain.
That said, there is an explanation. What he had said to Pulaski was that optical implants were actually inferior. He wouldn't be able to see as much with normal eyes. But, by First Contact, we see that his eyes are not normal.
So maybe the first time, the tech wasn't good enough, and he justified it as just a one time thing. Maybe he even did something to help prevent it from happening again. But, when it happened again, he decided it wasn't worth it, and looked into artificial eyes, and found a set he liked.
Heck, maybe it was even still experimental, but he was able to convince Starfleet that he needed them because of what happened in Generations.
I mean in the real world we have laser surgery and implantable contact lenses and yet most people prefer to wear glasses. But with the technology improving more and more people are getting eye surgery that used to be reluctant in the past. So makes sense to me.
@@sebastiang7394 You also forgot to mention that laser surgery is incredibly expensive.
The way Enterprise explained the smooth Klink origin was a masterstroke in my humble opinion. It fit so well with the OG lore and explained by Worf during the time travel ep that redeems the Archer era and firmly establishes it as CANON despite how some diehard fanatic Trek fans saying that the Archer era was a "soft reboot" or reset/retcon and not at all canon. Some may hate Enterprise, but a few of us loved that series - too bad they ended it in the worst way possible that even I would agree to disavow that last episode with a passion.
And the really frigged up looking Klingons in Discovery can be explained as failed attempts at reversing the effects of the Augment Virus. And just for laughs throw in Zora of Tiburon. She was that hot looker with the sexy eyebrows from the TOS episode Savage Curtain. She was known for doing genetic tinkering on her less than eager fellow Tiburons. So I could see the Klingons enlisting her help to restore themselves. Unfortunately that resulted in some really messed up looking Klingons.
Fun Fact (8:18) -- Trelaine's parents were voiced by James Doohan and Nichelle Nichols!
you mean Barbara Babcock
@@NS6677 Which one was it?
The female voice. That wasn't Nichelle. She was in multiple roles in TOS.
Making DS9 all a dream would have been absolutely asinine!!!!!!
No. It's Ass-Ten!
@Lisa Philpot I feel like the new trek destroys what trek really is. DS9 was so awesome because for most of the series they actually had continuity and that continuity carried through to the movies abs Voyager. The new trek does not ever have continuity. They also don’t respect the ships or stations as quasi characters. I am scared they will ruin DS9.
@@SJDevenney1 Could not have said it better myself. Current trek doesn’t seem to respect all the hard work that came in that 18 year span before it.
Logic, distance, space and time all mean nothing in this current take, relax real heart and good stories and most importantly it lacks the spirit of Star Trek that was with all the other series, continuity flowed perfectly from all the other series until 2017 when Star Trek became an unrecognizable IP.
Enjoy what you like but there is a HUGE disconnect from what was made before in that 18 year span and what is now being made under secret hideout, real shame.
RIP Star Trek.
In DS9 Thomas Riker (Will Riker's clone) was imprisoned. Cisco made a deal with Ducat that Thomas would surrender only if he was not executed. So, he was cryo-suspended. He wasn't killed, but he wasn't alive either.
Post DS9, when Kira gave up Odo, she wanted him still but eventually she got over him. She then got news of what had happened to Thomas and she remembers her promise that she would find a way to get him out.
She launches covert rescue and gets Thomas back. Her attraction for him when first met was clear. And his feeling being same as shown end of that same episode starts a new chapter for Thomas and Kira after rescue.
Oh, Thomas after entering the run-about while full mouth kiss is "I've always had a thing for older women."
Kira, retorts, "who did you just call old". Thomas, "well it has been 8 years."
Kira: well you were still having birthdays while you were suspended and when we get back to DS9, we gone celebrate all of them.
@@joeboxter3635 I like it.
The other reason it'd be asinine for DS9 to be a dream-apart from the major continuity problems-is it'd undo the main message of that episode.
The reason why that final scene of Benny looking at Sisko's reflection is so powerful is it shows that many years after this unknown black writer struggled to attain even baseline respect, here is a black man who is massively respected as a high ranking commander of an entire space station. Metaphorically, it was like decades of progress were hanging between their eyes as they looked at each other.
To cast aside Sisko as 'just a dream' essentially unwrites all of the progress the episode aimed to show. Sisko HAS to be real. It's the only thing that makes sense.
In fact, Benny's line about, "I created it!" works even better under that interpretation! On top of the literal interpretation of the line (that Benny, in his time, invented a character in a fiction novel), there is the metaphorical Benny who imagined living in a better world one day. The unnamed, unknown Bennys of the past who fought to be accepted and recognised are the ones who 'created' these paths for these REAL Siskos of our future.
I was perfectly happy accepting Klingons from TOS as a meta concession of the evolution of the franchise. But I liked the tie in with the eugenics wars from Enterprise.
"It's was all a dream" is the most pitiful, lazy, hackneyed movie device ever. SO glad DS9 didn't ultimately go with that route. It would have trashed the entire series. The prophets were so poorly fleshed out, that to write everything off as just their mental machinations would have been an appalling devaluation of all the events in the series.
Yeah.... it would have been such a kick in the teeth to every star trek fan out there. I hate the idea.
Agreed. It makes a mockery of everything they wrote before and shows they have little respect for their audience.
"It was all just a dream" was already disappointing when they did in "The Wizard of Oz" back in 1939.
I dunno. The ending doesn't necessarily make it a dream of Benny.
Considering he is part prophet, there are all sorts of timeywimey things that could be going on.
It could be a vision or a future echo, he could be one of several Sisko's the prophets created, an alternate future incarnation of the same Sisko, Benny and Sisko could both be one of multiple Avatars or manifestations of the same higher dimensional being, living in parallel from its point of view, the options are endless.
It could even be a schizoid embolism for Sisko.
If they had gone that route, to me it would've felt like the holographic ending to Enterprise except worse
@@BodyMusicification Yeah, and that ending was bad. Other TV shows have tried that trick and it's never worked out well.
Unfortunately in Star Trek lore, not a single solitary book is considered canon, only what’s appeared on screen. Which invalidates most of this list, which is a shame, I loved the Q squared book.
Hahaha...Yeah, that’s even against what Roddenberry himself stated. That, my friend, was the declaration of a guy who came after that didn’t want you to notice his mistakes which were often on screen anyway.
Everything goes in public domain eventually for scholars and those who love it can sort it out. Why not just create it now out of what works for you in the meantime?
True enough, but as long as they don't address these explanations onscreen, we can call the books canon.
Trelane actually had parents, but in Voyager, Q said they didn't reproduce that way before he suggested Janeway have his child. Also, Trelane's parents were unfamiliar with humans and how vulnerable they are, unlike the all-knowing Q.
IQ was a damned good read. It was stupid and exaggerated but as it was narrated by Q I enjoyed it. The emotional moment was a tad shaded as it was a copy of kirk meeting the lady in the past and had to die but overall it was fun.
@@randystegemann9990 The parent thing is a decent point. The Q not having kids thing not so much. Time isn't a barrier to the Q for all we know. He could've been born centuries after VOY. Then just decided or was forced to live in the TOS timeframe.
If that WAS archer and he was tinkering with the time line, you've just linked him to Sam Becket.
For so long I have been looking to a reboot of Quantum Leap where an older special operations commando goes through time looking for his long-lost older brother.
This time the military guy is blipping through time, with a scientist/historian trying to keep him "up to date" with where/when he is.
So you want Scott Bakula to come back as a time traveler? Does he have Al and Ziggy?
Yes
My mom was a fan of Quantum Leap and thought that if they did a continuation they could have it where Sam and his wife had a child from the one episode where he did return home and that child would leap in time to look for him Scott Bakula pitched this idea him self now that NCIS is ending
Enterprise ended as a holodeck history lesson , so Deep space nine ending as a dream would have been dumb.
"Oh boy..."
I would love that.
I kinda like the "Ferengi play dumb" theory.
I couldn't say what episode exactly, but it was one of the few times Quark is on the Defiant. He talks about how he likes dealing the Federation. He can act dumb, charge more, and the Federation just pays him, or something to that effect. He doesn't have to be a shrewd and cunning business man, like he has to be with everyone else.
I like the “Ferengi play dumb” theory, too, because it always bothered me that if Ferengi were that low-IQ, then how the heck were they a warp capable species?
Check out his soliloquy on Root Beer with Garak! Brilliant!
@@nathanieldaiken1064 Really? I've literally always been in the bathroom taking a shit when that comes on. I don't know how I could've missed it.
@@dff19707
No ... Bad theory. Why would they *play* dumb. What profit motive?
Better theory is they were escapees of a rehabilitation colony and mentally ill even by ferengi standards.
Also Ferengi did not develop warp. They bought technology from another species trading worthless crystals in exchange. Only much later to find that crystals were dilithium.
The whole history of feregie has to based on profit and the rules of aquisition, written by the greatest feregie of them all and the first grand negus: negus (who is quark)!
That makes no sense -- oh yes it does. Quark falls in time after end of DS9.
@@joeboxter3635 They would play dumb to acquire dangerous technology. Think about it, when you wanna get rid of something and there’s this very stupid person, you would think “he’s too dumb to even figure out how to activate it”, and he would be the perfect person to give dangerous devices, that way the Ferengi would acquire weapons they could trade with other species, maximizing their profit.
In Season 7 ep 2 "Shadows and Symbols" The prophets speak to Sisko through the image of Sarah. Saying that "The Kosst Amojan (Pah-Wraiths) tried to trick you with a false vision, but you did not waiver. " Meaning Benny Russel was just an attempt by the Pah-wraiths to distract and fool Sisko to follow the Prophets.
Quantum Leap, NCIS: New Orleans and Enterprise are one extended timeline.
OMG he had to solve enough cases, he finally moved on to captain Archer, I LOVE IT
@@DavidEdwards9801 Fans of Quantum Leap were outraged the last episode stated Dr. Beckett "was never seen again..." This was finally solved! He started the Temporal Cold War.
@@aqdrobert That was Brannon Braga's take on events, though the Department of Temporal Investigations novels took a different tack.
I love this idea
He was stuck as Archer and never returned home, there are too many problems for a starship captain in the far-flung "perfect" future.
It seems to me that only one of these theories, the source of the smooth Klingons (great two parter for Enterprise by the way) is the only one that truly became "fact," ie. canon. Most of these entries are either Beta canon (kind of like Legends continuity in Star Wars, ie. not canon) or the fan fiction of the crew of these series. Some of it really pretty good. Alexander Siddig and Andrew Robinson's vodcasts were a pleasant surprise during the pandemic (by the way, both Cirroc Lofton and Nana Visitor reprised their roles for the vodcasts). I also subscribe to the theory of Tralane being Q Jr. and that the implications mean that the Q order of Star Trek episodes are contrary to running order in vastly wild ways (one even has two temporal placements). However, non of these (except for the Klingon thoery) are in fact canon. If we were to accept these as fact, then one of the Ferengi from the Last Outpost (ie. their introduction) would immediately leave his crew and open a bar on a giant Cardassian bicycle wheel. Why? Because Armin Shimmerman has always felt that both Ferengi characters he played were Quark. Also, T'Pol in Enterprise was originally going to be T'Pau. However, much like the case of Tom Paris vs. Nick Laccarno, it came down to paying royalties to a witter. Geez, Star Trek does not like paying its writers.
This might not fall under the fan theory umbrella (although it still squarely counts as “Star Trek doesn’t reward its writers”), but there are things established in the novels that were later shown on screen. I’ve been reading Diane Duane’s “Rihannsu” series and there’s clearly so much worldbuilding she did for the Romulans that was adopted into Trek canon.
For example, the idea that Romulans have four names and the last is a secret name only revealed to their spouse/partner was integrated into Picard in a scene between Narek and Soji (one of the very few things I actually liked about that show…). The structure of government is quite similar too, although not exactly the same. I seem to recall Spock’s learning disability being a fan theory as well, and that was covered in Discovery season 2 with Vulcan dyslexia/l’tak terai.
I remember reading an interview with a woman who was a fan writer back in the 70s and she said that when The Animated Series was being made, the writers regularly consulted the body of fan works to see what had already been written about it. Like in the episode “Yesteryear”, the design of the sehlat was directly inspired by art published in fanzines or sent in to the studio by fans. Back in the day when copyright was less intense.
Came here to say just that! If it's not shown on screen it is nothing more than wishful thinking.
My head canon is that both of Robert McNeal's characters were the same person. I deliberately forgot his name from the TNG episode to support this.
Having a whole story be someone's dream at the end is hack writing.... Not "a perfect ending for Sisko."
Yeah. The original "Dallas" was a good example...
@@kevinshumaker3753 Agreed, however, if I remember correctly, the series ending of Newhart was to take a shot at Dallas for writing off an entire season and at St. Elsewhere for turning the entire series into just the imagination of an autistic child. The Newhart ending was pure genius, an absolute surprise, and wonderfully hilarious.
@@dff19707 Forgot that one !!!
Newhart? but I agree Star Trek and Newhart are little different types of shows
I agree!!!
Lord, I love Star Trek so much that a video about fan theories makes me giddy...
That would have been the most depressing ending for Sisko. The whole show was the fever dream of an oppressed man living in the 40s? Chiiiild I'm so glad Ira was overruled on that. Whew!
I'm a simple woman. I see Garashir, I click.
Making the ladies click
Freakin' yaoi fangirls ruining everything.
@@medexamtoolscom As a gay guy, I’d usually agree, but the subtext was within the show itself before the writers put a pin in it, and even the actors agree. It’s fair game 🤷♂️
we are, indeed! ♥
@@lewiskazinsky7334 So.... does this mean that Faith Salie's wanting her character to return and David Mack's "did she come back, or is a Certain Numbered Agency playing matchmaker?" storyline in the DS9 Relaunch novels will just end up sharing the same fate as Ashley Judd's bid to be in Nemesis?
Smooth headed "Augment" Klingons are also more devious and subtle than their predecessors as their brains are more human in shape. Still doesn't explain why the Romulans stopped having a strong sense of honour and became the sneaky ones though.
That's actually easy, politics. My thoery is that, after the Tal Shiar screwed up Imperial expansion plans by losing control of Vulcan and the failure of the drone ships, they were on outs with those in power, especially after their actions led to a war that didn't get the Empire much beyond a hard border which definitely didn't mesh with expansion.
The more honorable military would step up, making sure they were in charge of major projects, even sneaky ones like the cloaking device tests. This is probably why they were able to swing an alliance with the Klingons, despite most future interactions outside of the Duras family has them expressing nothing but contempt.
The Tomed incident probably changed things, allowing the Tal Shiar to regain power, and this time they made sure to keep a tight hold on it.
(Note this is just my personal theory, taken from on screen evidence as well as a few beta canon sources, like the Starfleet Command game, where the two competing Romulan elite organizations were the Tal Shiar, and the Tal Praex, aka the Imperial Guard.)
factionalism exists in all power structures, in large ones it results in 'parties' forming, some of these parties would have favoured the klingons over the feds, others the feds over the klingons, and others laying low and trying to make both fight and weaken each other. when parties like this fight, they have to rely on underhanded-deviousness (politics!). so some would have been deceitful, other more honourable, and the nature of their system did encourage deviousness by all parties...
@@jarradscarborough7915 True, the real problem comes when idealists of whatever stripe take power. Then you have such BRILLIANT decisions as Chancellor K'Mpec's order to disband Klingon Intelligence because it is "dishonourable"
I saw the thumbnail and immediately thought of what Andrew Robinson said about what Garak was thinking when he first met Bashir in What we left Behind
Interesting list, but it's mis-named. Long-standing Star Trek policy is that novels are never considered canon. And certainly if the writers for the show had an idea that never made it onto the screen, it shouldn't count as canon.
Yeah, it's beta content
Kind of splitting hairs there. I think it's more accurate to say the writers consider some pars of the movies (and by extension a lot of other parts of the franchise.) to be like "soft" beta canon. Really because it would take much convoluted writing than they have the time, budget or energy to pull it all together.
YATI: Yet Another Trek Inconstancy, is a term from the early days of TNG, and it fits. We would debate them, come up with "What If?" situations NEVER dismiss it as Non Trek or Not "Real Canon. It is IMHOdisrespectful to the people who worked on it and who like it flaws and all.
Broadly saying the movies just aren't canon doesn't work. Same goes for the animated series and a lot of Enterprise. Specific inconstancies may never get mentioned ever unless someone wants to take the time to work it into a story they want to tell/
@@OldJerzyDevil I didn't say anything about movies.
@@bazzokzwattom2655 Sorry, my mistake.
exactle
Yeah it all being a dream would have been really silly for the series as a whole.
I also think it diminishes Sisko being awesome since it would not be "real" but just the hope of someone
I keep going back and forth between thinking it'd be a dreadful idea and a damn powerful piece of television.
Think about it; if it was all a dream, it meant Benny Russel imagined the people he knew in his life as scientists, engineers, doctors... and as courageous heroes. The jerk cops that beat him get to be the enemy, eventually vanquished by the valiant heroes once and for all.
But also it'd cheapen the entirety of the franchise.
@@AndrewD8Red I’m a genuine fan as well, but I think the ending already cheapened the franchise, specifically with what happens to Sisko. I’m not angry about it, but I’m not thrilled with Sisko just jumping into a fire pit.
Andrew Robinson always played Garak as sexually ambiguous, since the writers really could not go there without the network getting upset.
He was also a spy, so would need to be at times.
Amazing how far storytelling has come since then. They were onto something back then with DS9
Iits kind of funny to me. Beyond the first meeting that thread is non existent and even has garak with dukats daughter. Its just virtue signaling imo
@@GonzoDonzo I think she was crushing on him, but he was wary because of the age difference and the fact that her dad wanted him dead.
Bollocks. They did go there with Jadzia and her gay encounters.
Nothing to do with the Network. This was the 90s, not the 60s.
Garak wasn't queer, he was just a refined English cardie gentleman.
Making it all a dream would have been St. Elsewhere: The Next Generation.
I loved Q Squared! Such a brilliant book!
It's one of my favorite Star Trek novels.
An old sock can be very intimidating...
ending ds9 as a dream would have kinda ruined it, the lore the mood the view of star trek.
I must be super innocent…I always saw Garrik’s first meeting with Bashir as sinister not flirting
Definitely glad the "all a dream" ending didn't happen. Can you imagine how badly that would've gone over on the only Trek show at the time with a black lead?
Q-squared is one of my absolute favorite books. Especially the part where Trelane ups the tempo
The Klingon theory was one of my favorite theories I love that one it was perfectly written
Ezri Dax died - when did that happen?
FACT: there are more photos of Bigfoot than of William Shatner without a wig...
I’m pretty sure Shatner without a wig is Bigfoot and have been tracking this for years. New revelations coming shortly
@@thecanadianborderguard5215 The truth is out there...or without hair.
@@thecanadianborderguard5215 Well.. it is true that they've never been seen together.
9:33 his desk lamp even looks like a starfleet starbase...
Squire Of Gothos is one of my Top 3 TOS Trek Episodes Ever!!
Man, gotta do something about that ending transition. You talked about the best part of the episode in a corner of the screen!
As theories go, my own one has also been an attempt to nip in the bud the very dramatic appearance change for Klingons, in Discovery. And it’s a very simple theory, which also helps explain how they appear in Star Trek : Into Darkness - a different timeline, but still one where the same reason would make sense.
And that reason being:
In the 23rd century, as mutations which had altered Klingon foreheads were just starting to leave their gene pool, the entire Klingon culture went through a widespread phase that made them appear so different from in the 22nd century.
It was a phase where Klingons of any gender, and mostly adults (from what we can tell) became fond of body modification.
I’ve worked into this theory an idea, that an ancient DNA sample had been found early in this era (late 22nd century, you could say), which led major influencers in Klingon culture at the time to believe that they had found the “original appearance” of Kahless - when actually this was just an extrapolation from very degraded DNA, which they couldn’t even be sure was pure Klingon. If you want to go really deep and off-canon with it, and take a cue from Star Trek Online (which I did not originally when thinking this up), you could even say that the actual DNA sample was likely from a Fek’Lhiri. But the whole point is, these influencers then made popular this idea that the “true, most honourable, and most Kahless-like” appearance for a Klingon to bare, was like this. And so many Klingons then appeared hairless for a time, much more scary than previously, with massive crests on the back of their heads, and many had a grey tint to their skin - I can’t explain that fully, but I think part of it was that lighter skin colours started becoming a target of prejudice, owing to this cultural revolution. Because yes, even Klingons can be colourist! We saw that with Voq being viewed as an outcast originally, due to being unable to change his skin pigment through modifications at all, *because* he was an albino - at least, that’s what I’m going with, in order to make this theory work.
Part of that body-modding would of course have included more piercings - which you do see on some Discovery Klingons, but you also see it with those Klingons we see on Qo’Nos in “Into Darkness” - again, their culture went through a body-modding phase, just not as profoundly - or possibly just as profoundly, but then it turned back sooner, due to a butterfly effect from the Narada incursion.
In Discovery’s timeline, post-season 1, L’Rel as Chancellor would have been one of the first to begin influencing this change back to a more “natural” look for Klingons - and this explains why we see her, and other Klingons, with hair and a slightly different appearance in Discovery season 2.
Of course, I have absolutely over-thought this. But that’s just who I am! 😆
I just can’t imagine how it “all being a dream” would be satisfying in any way. I mean, that would have implications for ST:V, as that is how Paris and Kim first met. And that is just one example. The largest implication would probably be the war with the Dominion. I just think that as talented as Moore is, this is one time he was dead wrong and needed to be reigned in.
After larer revelations, I've always just thought The Last Outpost Ferengi were a ship full of Maurader Mo fans.
Just out on a Galactic LARP. Enterprise should've checked to see if a Mo-Con was being held nearby.
And now I want a "Marauder Mo" television series; it would be the Ferengi equivalent of "Vikings," maybe with Travis Fimmel as Mo.
Well, we know the Nick Locarno one isn’t true now since lower decks made sure that Locarno and Paris were two different characters.
In ds9 the smoothies got their ridges back in Blood oath.
@David_Leaghty plastic surgery.
The vanity that comes with midlife crisis
Was there ever an in universe reason why Koloth, Kang, and the other classic Klingon on DS9 got their ridges back? I guess you could assume they found some kind of cure to the augment virus, but I don’t remember them saying anything about it.
Koloth, Kang, and Kor.
These are the three Klingons from TOS who tangled with Captain Kirk.
Not onscreen I think. It's really too bad that none of the novels were ever filmed. "Excelsior: Forged in Fire" would have made a great miniseries imo. It ties up a bajillion loose ends, including how Kang, Kor and Koloth got their ridges, in a wonderful way. I won't spoil any more, just encourage everyone to read it.
Of course we didn't hear about it. They do not discuss it with outsiders.
No, but I believe there was offhand talk about how some infected people might get plastic surgery. But that could just be a fan theory I'm misremembering as canon.
Didn't Phlox have a line mentioning that it'd take the Klingons about a century to completely cure the augment virus? To me, that would explain Koloth, Kor and Kang's updated appearance: the Empire developed a treatment, and administered it sometime between Kirk's five-year mission and the V'ger incident.
I really hate it was all just a dream endings, it feels like a cheat, like an apology for the story.
"It was all a dream" would have turned into the St. Elsewhere Problem, and bring into question the canonicity of everything connected to the Star Trek Universe.
I remember back in the early 90s on a Star Trek BBS there was a guy who advanced the Klingon-Human hybrid theory to explain TOS Klingon appearance and he was very widely reviled for this. When it turned out to be true I thought it was hillarious.
The Klingons appearance evolved; the early make-up was much faster and cheaper to apply and was far less a shock to the audience. Once the premise was tested, they could risk the more elaborate make-up. Funny to think the entire enterprise began with the portrayal so well done by Barbara Eden's husband where they were doomed to fight forever on the original Enterprise.
Does it count as fact when it’s something in a novel? Those aren’t canon. Most of these entries aren’t actually fact in canon
I call them semi-canon.
I believe the proper term is "B Canon".
@@BigJeremyBeyer “beta canon” is a misleading term. For something to be considered canon, it is accepted as genuine within the universe and, though beta may follow its own continuity, it’s not genuine in the true universe, if that makes sense. Fan fiction under any other name is still fan fiction. (I’m not arguing with you or at you; I’m just ranting about the terminology.)
@@ShatnerLover I agree with you, just saying what people call it.
Well, it has at least been approved by someone, so it is one step closer to canon than fanfic.
Honestly, i always thought the Ancients were the Founders before they evolved to become changelings, because of how similar the makeup job is.
I think you missed some of what was cool about the Klingon question. The two most popular fan theories at the time were incorporated into the DS9 episode when O'Brien and Bashir ask Worf, which is when he give the iconic line about not discussing it with outsiders.
And then, in Enterprise, we find out that both are true. It was both due to genetic engineering and a viral mutation. It stated as the former, but then unintentionally spread as the latter.
I still like the explanation of the Radiation from the Klingons unsecured Reactors in interaction with the Cloaks caused a Mutation which has been become a Sybol of Strenght in the Klingon Empire as only the "Warriors" serving on Ships were originally affected. But, the Mutation were dominant, so their Children were born with "the Mark of the Warrior" as well and thus in 100 Years the whole Appearance had changed.
Spock has s sister named Sybol?
As far as the future person who spoke to Sillick, I feel that was a Romulan trying to change the past. I don't think it Archer. We see Romulans appearing in season 4, but that gets stopped because the series was cancelled.
Or maybe a Krenim with a grudge.
Using the Klingon type of the Original Series for the 1979 film (and beyond) assuredly would have been very problematic; the earlier, smooth-headed ones arguably bore a bit too strong a resemblance to the Mongolians, or Uzbecks, or Kazahks, or...
Q Squared is one of my favorite books, its so cool seeing them tie things together
There is NO theory that Garak was interested sexually in Bashir. Bashir had very good friendships, and it was never going away from there. Bashir was too busy trying to get into Dax's pants.
i always interpreted that as garek being bored and decided a naive you doctor would be a fun plaything, and started playing his mindgames for entertainment, which would involve bashir being off-balance and uncomfortable, and make him wonder "is he or isn't he???". but later after helping with the implant, and perhaps letting him in further than he planned due to his loneliness, and also perhaps noticing through his own advanced perception (due to O O training) that bashir was... different, garek may have decided to advance his friendship and stop with the games, and become more of a mentor figure, which was likely more satisfying as his personality shifted due to living with 'federation-types'.
And now we have to see how discovery explains the blue Klingon design
So about the appearance of Klingons... how do you explain how Klingons look in Discovery???
Simple. Discovery is not canon. Nor is it good.
STAR TREK TRAVEL!!!!!👽 Marvel's Endgame Reference.
Interesting to hear about the Preservers. The Shatnerverse novels go so far as to link the obelisk creators from TOS with the progenitor race from TNG.
STO added the Iconians to that link. Which would also mean the Solanae (clicking aliens from "Schisms"), the neural parasites from "Conspiracy" and the Elachi are also linked to the Preservers.
I wonder why Garrick was thrown out of the Cardassian military, now I know why.
However the actor who played Doctor Bashir was actually married to the actress who played Major Kira, and she wore the tightest spandex in the Quadrant. Who would desert that babe? Garrick did not have the hips nor the upper chest structure to compete.
As for the Benny episode, it was not about "A Dream". It was about "Racism". Avery Brooks was too serious an Actor and a Black American to have it any other way.
If it turned out to be "A Dream", it would have destroyed the Star Trek series faster than a thousand Quantum Torpedoes.
Lower Decks made #2 really age like milk lol
Geordi's Visor was also used by the villains in the TNG episode The Mind's Eye.
I thought that was where the Duras sisters got the idea to use Geordi's visor from.
My I point out just because some fans see it as their own "head cannon" dones not make it cannon, even if the actors are on board it still doesn't make it cannon.
The ancient ones from TNG being the Preservers in The Paradise Syndrome is actually covered in Star Trek Online as part of the Iconian War arc
That has to be one of the best in universe explaination of the dropping of the VISOR that Laforge used.
I love all these theories, but for some reason. The one about Garak being gay would actually have been perfect. Y'see the Cardassian people are quite family oriented. Episodes of DS9 and books "The Never Ending Sacrifice" ( both in show and the really good real one about Rugal) really demonstrate the importance of family in the culture. I think that homosexuality in the Cardassian Union would have been outlawed to a degree that it would be extremely RARE for a Cardassian to be gay. Completely unheard of on the Homeworld. His activity in the obsidian order exposed him to other cultures where it wasn't. Possibly he needed to interact with a gay person as part of a spy mission and he started out faking it, either with medical or technological help. Secretly he liked it. And he got caught, probably even by Tain, who would just expel him for it, keeping the homosexuality secret because it would have ruined his standing too.
It would really have given the character more depth while also being a bigger story talking about tolerance AND more insight into Cardassia. It would probably not have been done mainly because in a lot of human cultures in the recent past and up to today, it's punishable by death, totally illegal, or just really frowned on.
Islamic countries executed them at one time and up until the 1960s, outlawed in Great Britain. In 1993 only barely accepted in many places in the US. It would have hit too close to home then.
It would make a super good fan film today, but ONLY if you can cast a young Garak. Andrew Robinson could win an award or two playing old ass Garak. Former Castellan of the Cardassian Republic, signer of the Federation Membership Accords. Sitting in a chair telling the real story about how he went from the child of the head of an espionage organization to refugee to one of the liberators from The Dominion to leader and petitioner for Federation Membership. Heck, make it look like a documentary from the future and make Rilic the Cardassian/Bajoran/Human President a descendant. And make Cardassians an offshoot ( and the Skkrrea as well) of the Bajoran people. Anyone want to write that? Because I'd watch it. I'll act in it and consult creatively too.
Future Guy is very obvious considering he saves Enterprise.
So about the Klingon explanation... how do you explain the Klingons in Discovery???
Cosmetic surgery. Overcompensating.
They turn agents into other species, forehead correction should be easy.
The Enterprise episode's Klingon Dr. mentions he might go into cosmetic surgery.
That point 3, about DS9 having just been a dream, reminds me to an extent of the ending of 'Enterprise'.
Exactly what have we learned from Mo’C Cambridge Cambridge Galaxy survey? I’m too nervous to even concentrate at all. It’s also great. I think it’s a good idea to process whatever came out during that time. When he did his galaxy survey this afternoon mixed with the aquaria bridge. Whaddaya Tink?
Trelane is a Q. Yup I believe you, he acts just like the Q. Is the Road from TNG his parents?
What about the fermale Q who found out she is a Q and her parents got killed by a Tornado
Strange to see an episode without Adam.
Thank god they didnt do the 'its all a dream' ending for DS9. It's never the way.
I just saw the Bashir-Garek affair recently on Alexander’s channel. It is good. I recommend that y’all check it out. Alex Siddig puts out good stuff. 🖖🏻
The Bashir-Garak post DS9 clip is from a different story than described. The man bashir fell in loved with was no just some random guy. (Not to spoiler but you might guess). Love both stories.
It seems unlikely the klingon mutation spreaded throughout the whole klingon empire. It's way more likely, the mutated klingons bekame outcasts and lost their honor in the eyes of the unmutated klingons. That would also explain their unhonorable behaviour in TOS.
Did you say Broken Bow like the ship part instead of the stringed weapon?
Yup, he did pardner. We's a got a mite bit of a problem with that. Find us some rope and a tall tree , boys.
I always assumed the title referred to the part of a ship until I learned it was the name of a place.
The original US commercials for the VHS release also called it Broken (ship's) Bow.
Even though the episode itself calls it Broken Bow (string.)
Love this list, I love the light-hearted low stakes episodes. Data's day is my favorite thing episode and take me out to the holidek is my favorite ds9.
Regarding the last point, about the different Klingons - Oh well, in the Klingon Empire there can be various races of Klingons on various planets, and even on the same planets.
Broken Bow - BROE-ken BOE - like what an archer hates to shoot with
Okay, I'm gonna be that guy: I'm always a bit cautious when it is claimed that a novel proves a theory, such as the "Trelane is a Q" one. I know that some current tie-in novels related to Discovery and Picard are considered canon, but as far as I know, most of the hundreds of novels from the past aren't official canon. I do stand corrected if someone officially in charge of the franchise have confirmed that Trelane is a Q according to that novel, though.
I agree with you. I have read that book and many others but it seems almost arbitrary ( or convenient) which books they choose to consider canon. There is another book trio series that was mentioned on a different video with three Q books, and it is an excellent series. Now I'm wondering if that is canon too?
@@LKLifestyles All research I've done so far indicates that the Discovery tie-ins and Picard tie-ins are basically the only canon books, apparently except from "Mosaic" and "Pathways" which tie in with Star Trek: Voyager, and "Countdown" which ties in with the JJ Abrams movies.
@@ojtheviking Where have you seen that those novels are canon?
@@bazzokzwattom2655 Several articles online when I searched which novels are canon
@@ojtheviking I was just wondering what you've seen about the studio policy that those novels are canon. Can you tell me about that?
When I first saw the new Klingon look in a TOS-era movie, I automatically assumed it was a redressing of the makeup with a larger budget and accepted that as a matter of fact. Later, I learned that countless people were heavily offended by the change and they were only appeased when the writers came up with the unnecessary explanation of the augments.
#10 Garak and Bashir ship
fans: yes and?
I was well-connected in Sid’s fan network back in the day. Sid and Andy knew that the fans were on board with the G/B ship and would flirt outragously at con when it was brought up. We also heard a lot of rumors around the later 2nd season that Berman was not happy and all f a sudden Garek gets a young female potential interest. There’s *a lot* more story here and with Trek queerness in general that comes down to “Rick Berman and his lackeys suck.” But hey, love wins.
Imagine if Bashir and Garek did hook up.
You could combine their names to Sandy; well the actor's names at least.
The characters would be Barak, wait that exists.
@@pauljackson3491 Sid does dramatic reading of fluffy, PG rated G/B as a old arried couple with kids fic on his TH-cam channel. Also Ao3 is your friend. Enjoy.
@Gray Arcadian to be fair, Berman may not have had an issue with it; but well written gay characters were not considered an acceptable by mainstream America. They were accepted as camp or comedy characters.
Ellen DeGeneres came out in 1997 and her show took a huge hit audience wise, sponsor wise and was canceled.
The DS9 episode “Rejoined” which aired in 1995, which had Dax meeting a past life same sex spouse, was considered controversial. And ratings took a minor hit that episode.
@@Lukecash2 My sympathy is nil. This is Trek. If you don't have the courage to do the right thing, then you shouldn't sign on. Also, they have always had queer cast and crew, so this topic was not some abstract concept. DS9's revamp for the straight, white, and young demographic tells me everything I need to know about Bergman's fortitude. A lot of the stories from the actresses, Andy, and Sid back that assertion.
I wonder how painful it would have been for Kang, Koloth, and Kor to go from Smooth Klingons to Ridged Klingons. And when/how did this happen for them? They were smooth in TOS and Ridged in DS9.
Garak and Bashir were NEVER romantically attracted to one another. Garak was suspicious of romance full stop. I mean, his confusion over Ziyal is a good example.
Bashir and O'Brien on the other hand? I'd ship them every day of the week.
mmmkay, then "sexually attracted"? Or "Trying to keep the honey pot skills fresh"?
@@varanasiwalks1451 Why not both?
Someone doth protest too much
Another great Trek romance that nobody acknowledged: Tom Paris and Harry Kim.
Plot twist Garak was a Tsundere and actually in love with Gul Dukat this explains all the back and forth between them and in the episode where the Klingons attack DS9 he was actually protecting Dukat
Geordi's visor is a costume piece NOT a prop.
Well then how does the klingon forehead thing explain why klingons like Kor were once smooth, but by DS9, were back to 'normal'?
The Enterprise episodes deal with it. The Klingon Dr. mentions he might go into cosmetic surgery.
There is no "Nick Locarno"! He was always Tom Paris.
I wish that was true but Tom's story to Captain Janeway during the pilot episode was too different to even pretend the same thing happened that got him kicked out of Starfleet. For one thing, he was already a commissioned officer on a real mission and got multiple people killed or injured on that mission and not just one cadet like Nick did. If royalties for the writer wasn't really an issue, they should've explained away his name change which would've been easy enough and then called him the same person as in the TNG episode "The First Duty". I would've loved it that way.
Trelane being a Q child is probably my favourite theory. It's such an interesting concept XD
Talking generations. Not a theory, but often misunderstood part of the plot. Soran isn't a weapons genius. In fact he is conning the klingons. Stole the trilithium from the romulans and then got geordie to teach him the rest. He had some knowledge from Armagosa but geordie filled the gaps to appease the klingons " tell me everything you know about trilithium."
It's a nebulous point no pun intended, because he already had a working prototype at Armagosa. Before he had geordie and the film is kinda janky in its logic, but the clear idea was Soran was a listener, a conman intelligent and knew how to play people like a cold reader mentalist. He hadn't planned on kidnapping geordie but its was good fortune he did it accelerated his plans because he could get some knowledge. Again he already had the torpedoes on the planet ready etc etc.
The Archer theory - I would be quite cool, if the man responsible for founding of the Federation would be plucked out of the time to help rebuild it once again.
Number 5.
Looked like a founder from DS9.
It's the same actress that plays the female changeling in DS9.
Here's a fan theory from the boardgame Starfleet Battles (which flourished in the idle years between Old G. and the first movie): Klingons were slavers and their starship crews had a high number of slave races. I contend that the NG Worf-like Klingons overthrew and exterminated their masters (the Old G. Mandarin-looking Klingons) and expunged them from history because they don't like to be reminded that a) they were slaves and b) all their technology was taken from their former masters.
12:10 ... dammit. For a sec I thought they said BRUCE Campbell. That would be epic. If Woody Harrelson gets to be in Star Wars lore, then why not Bruce Campbell? Sadly, it hasn't happened... yet.
The formulas. I’m sure some people are just saying incredible videos aren’t you? Congratulations on receiving these babies
#7 - The Ancient Ones bear a very strong resemblance to the Founders from DS9 - a way to eventually create more tools for them to use. Or the Ancient Ones evolved into the Founders.
Please do a second episode of this.
The Deep Space 9 "Dream" was probably shot down just for the fact of what happened on "Dallas" with Bobby's death and the whole season being a dream. Fans were pissed off.
I don't recall, how were the Klingons able to decode the signal from Geordi's VISOR? The Enterprise once used a direct feed from the VISOR, but it was mostly gibberish that only Geordi could understand after having used it for so long. But in the movie, it just shows up as a video signal, which is not how Geordi sees the world; it's not a camera, it's a sensor array...