People on internet are weird if a character has a dark past and is rough around the edges they complain and say "their just a stereotypical edgelords" But If a character is kind and caring they complain and say "their boring and uninteresting"
Ok believe it or fucking not, but Shadow the Hedgehog is actually written really well in Sonic 06. I mean it. Team Dark's stort in that game is actually some of the best storytelling in a mainline sonic game. He's grown a lot more since the events of SA2 & Shadow the Hedgehog & he's not a "taking candy from a baby, which is fine by me!" character anymore. He also has one of the most unironically badass lines I've heard in his final cutscene
I've seen a few comments saying that. Honestly you never see his stuff in 06 talked about, and most discussions about 06 are about it being bad, so I guess that's a sign of quality?
Sonic 06's plot works better as Shadow the hedgehog 2 lol. He gets all the cool moments and goes head to head with the true main villain. It may be named after him but Sonic got screwed in 06. The most impactful things he did were die and that one infamous moment we don't talk about.
The writing with Kai Leng made me realize something about the well-written edgelords besides the desire for happiness. It's commitment to their identity. The difference between someone like Kai Leng and someone like Monsoon is like someone who is posting on 4Chan ironically and someone who's posting unironically. Good edgelords commit to their views and back them with some sort of passion, effort, or reasoning. Like for Monsoon, his unironic belief in his ideals of survival of the fittest make him more interesting as a character than someone like Kai Leng and even believes his ideals all the way up to his death where he accepts that Raiden is going to kill him. It even makes me respect Monsoon to a degree that he'd keep his ideals so close to him, even in death.
@@pikmonwolf Exactly, while every character written with even a speck of thought has a goal, I feel it doesn't quite feel attached to the character. Kai Leng's edginess feels like he's just some whiney trend-follower who thought edge is the new cool and complains when even a speck of dust doesn't go his way. Monsoon is edgy because of his ideals and goals while Kai Leng is edgy because the writers wanted something to try to be cool.
I think this is the big difference between the shit edgelords and the decent or great ones. Even Shadow falls into this since he's actually sincerely into his goal of finding his past/purpose even if the plot is fucking nonsensical until the final ending. Notim Portant and Kai Leng are all style no substance
I think its important to mention that how hard you beat Monsoon will impact what he says at the end of the fight. If you beat him without EMP's and hard enough with skill, he will actually beg for his life in his final moments, as if Jack was so terrifying it brought something out of him that he otherwise didn't see.
"Monsoon isn't a very good character" I'd call bs but his story nonexistent to players that don't look into the lore and the calls. Monsoon was born in Cambodia in the late 60s and was a kid during the Cambodian genocide (1975-1979) He witnessed some horrific stuff including the execution fields. These were places where people where beaten to death with pickaxes so the people killing them wouldn't waste bullets. After that Monsoon was completely broken mentally. He stopped believing in free will and religion because from his point of view they were nonexistent nonsense. His speech about memes shows his nihilistic beliefs because to him a person acts the way they do because of the environment they grew up in. "Expose someone to anger long enough and they will learn to hate" That's what happened to him. After the Cambodian genocide, Monsoon joined the Cambodian mafia and his violent acts put a bounty on his head higher than the ones of his bosses. After a brutal shootout, Monsoon is wounded and is about to die. For the first time in his life he opposes his nihilistic views on the world and clings to life. Soon after that he becomes a cyborg. His design shows how much he doesn't care about his body. Now that he is a cyborg he is almost impossible to kill. His way of dodging attacks shows that too, he doesn't bother to move his whole body to dodge, he just uses his powers to move the pieces away from Raiden's sword. If you use too many EMPs he will believe that he was meant to lose so he would taunt Raiden. But if you manage to overwhelm Monsoon with pure skill, he starts panicking. As the fight progresses he tries to overwhelm Raiden with sheer quantity as shown when when throws helicopters, burning piles of armored vehicles and that monument. The only difference is that when you overwhelm him, he break character and begs for mercy, while if you play bad he taunts you. That doesn't matter because in the end he seems at peace, showing how little he cares about life and not even death being able to scare him for a long time. In the end he accepts death and returns to the earth, wind blows, rain falls, the strong prey on the weak, all as it should be. Also his theme shows more of his character and explains that Monsoon has completely given up on changing.
You do make a very good point about how his design shows a lack of self care which I really like. And I agree his background is great. However I still think what you see in the game isn't anything too special from it's presentation. I actually love the whole philosophy on memes and don't just see it has "hah funny guy said meme" but well, I just feel like "The strongest will survive characters who aren't too mad about getting killed" is a bit been there done that. Maybe it was more original when Revengeance came out but I don't really think so. His panicked lines are a full on secret and one I simply missed.
This is a great post. I've always felt like Stains of Time sounding more chaotic or "metal" (along with the lyrics themselves) emphasizes the characterization you explain here.
The funny part is that Shadow and Felix are among the most popular characters in their respective franchises despite everything potentially wrong with both of them lmao. Being games for children actually benefits them than if they were actual full on M rated games. From how you sound, the edgelords from the "adult" games are mostly one-note boring characters who don't leave much of an impact. But in a children's game? That shit slaps because of course children would be attracted to the character who gives the impression of being "adult" but still being kid friendly themselves, it's a fun juxtaposition. Yea, Shadow takes himself super fucking seriously but at the end of the day, he's still a 3ft cartoon hedgehog in a series where the main villain is an egg shaped mad scientist, so he can never be taken completely seriously no matter how much he frowns. And it helps that his backstory is legitimately sad, so you at least know why he's so brooding. Its the same with Felix; no matter how much he broods and talks...he's still a teenager at the end of the day who doesn't really get the bigger picture. Some characters indulge him, while others don't take him seriously at all. And Felix himself is still a good kid at the end of the day, even if he'll never admit it. And like Shadow, you at least know why he's like that and he mellows out somewhat after the time skip. Its ironic...a character designed to be "adult" only works in a medium designed for children.
@@pikmonwolf as shadow is my favorite character in all of fiction, you only pulling from his worst interpretation in the franchise is saddening. SA2 sonic 06, some of the comics, etc, show just how good a character shadow actually is when written by people who actually understand the character, or are at least slightly competent writers, which we have lacked since sonic unleashed up till sonic frontiers, can actually be.
I love edgy characters. Even if they don't have an "edgy" personality perse. If they're, like, stoic and calm. They have a badass design and cool dark powers etc. It just appeals to me.
Edgelords can have 4 meanings 1) ACTUAL TRYHARDS (Infinite) 2) The bad boy of your friend group (eg. Shadow and Dark Pit) 3) They don't like being told what to do 4) Someone who has a serious expression on their face and is extremely quiet barely interacting with others not because they're sad or are mad at you but they simply don't want to be bothered (they want to be left alone) Edgelords are still cool in my book!
Would you consider broken birds (characters with such a tragic backstory you’re supposed to want to protect them) a type of edgelord, or something else?
There's a quote I always defer to that sorta goes like: "Childhood is making yourself think Shadow is cringe, adulthood is realizing Shadow the Hedgehog is really fucking cool"
The word "edge" has been thrown around and lost all meaning. Now, you can't have a dark character without people calling you an edgelord. Especially characters who are *_suppose_* to be psychopaths and warmongers, like in MGR.
Well But Moonsoon really is a Nihilist Edgelord, from his design down to his personality and theme song, but the character is so unapolagetically edgy that it's freaking awesome. And all of the characters in MGR are pretty damn unapolageticallly over the top and batshit insane.
I think one of the biggest things about Shadow's character that's been forgotten about is his soul. It was made to replicate Maria's. He was originally pretty easygoing and the reason why he is so brooding is because he thinks humanity hates him and they killed the scientists and Maria.
Humanity never hated Shadow he was created to be the perfect being?? Gun just ruined everything by killing Maria and causing his amnesia.. it’s literally all Guns fault which is why it pisses me off he went back to go work for them in 06??
@@reallyhimongod The point of the Shadow game was that Shadow had amnesia and was trying to figure out who he is. After exploring 10 different possibilities, we get the true ending where Shadow decides to let go of the past and be his own person. Post Shadow 05, Shadow wanders the earth helping people. He only worked for GUN because Rouge worked there and she's 1 of the 2 people in the world, closest to Shadow. He's more like a freelancer for GUN. Only working for them if their interests align. He doesn't owe them anything. Plus there was an extra scene in Shadow 05, the GUN commander makes amends with Shadow (since they were both victims on the ark) and asks Shadow if he could possibly work for them, promising him that GUN will do better.
The sad thing about Shadow is that there IS more than him being an edgelord There's alot of videos out there describing it better than me, but Shadow's story is tragic, he was supposed to be one of those characters that didn't allow himself to be happy because he wanted to grant what he thought was Maria's wish And then he died, came back with amnesia, and the writers decided to butch what his character was supposed to be by making him a full-on edgelord Atleast he's a LITTLE better in the comics but goddamn
oh trust me, what they did to him in shadow the hedgehog was a step back on character growth after heroes and made him fully grown as a character in sonic06(even though the game genuinely sucked cuz of rush development). but im afraid after sonic06 his character went downhill and became the sasuke of sonic! edgelord characters can work if they are well written!
To be fair he wasnt really that bad until sonic boom happened. And every depiction since has flanderized his edgy traits and made him more of a narcissistic bully than just an aloof loner.
@@sasaki999pro And that's just sad, cuz All the Sonic Boom depictions of each characters were made to be silly and not be taken seriously. A somewhat decent cartoon unintentionally made most parodied characters the standard of their design since then, or even before that point if we're not just talking about Shadow, Knuckles being the best example of this. He was basically a dumbass during a big part of the 2010s even though he was just gullible back then.
I played the Black Eagles in my first run and I didn't want to make any of my students a dancer. So I recruited Felix to be my dancer since he was the only one I could recruit in time for the dance contest with my stats at the time lol
If you're doing black Eagles I guess you don't want to pick Flayn who is normally a 'free good dancer' essentially. Honestly the mental image of Felix joining the super strong professor's class, eager for great training and then being told his first job is dance lessons, is hilarious.
That is EXACTLY how I pictured it, yes. "Yes, Professor! I am honored that you would choose me to join your forces! My blade is yours to command. Now and always." "Wonderful! Put this on."
@@pikmonwolf I think Felix and Dimitri are the two most objectively hilarious dancer options bc you have Felix who is...Felix and then first half of post timeskip Dimitri who's out here doing the Macarena before going "my soul is damned. I will see you in the eternal fiery bowels of hell."
@@pikmonwolf To be fair with the fact that getting the dancer class gives you access to the sword avoid+20 skill and the sword dance combat art means learning how to dance is unironically really useful for his sword training.
I really felt it when the first thing you did when talking about the "so edgy it's funny" point was literally showing the ENTIRE Shadow the Hedgehog intro lmao
To save everyone time: No If they were, we wouldn't have got Metal Gear Rising Revengance (among other games with any edgy characters in them) nor any characters who are so bad with their edgyness they loop back to being funny (which depending on whom you ask, is even better than just having a regular funny character)
@@godricktheminecrafted3113 honestly Monsoon isn't even really a character, do we know his motivations? His ideals? He's just hatred incarnate, and he's suddenly introduced at a time where Raiden also has to face his past demons, hence why the song's name "The Stains of Time" suggesting the misfortunes of the past and the "soothing rain" that washes them away during the fight with Monsoon. Bottom line, Monsoon was just a destressor for Raiden and a means to accept his past self. He is one of the most important and memorable characters, without even being much of a character to begin with. He's the screw that keeps the whole building in place.
@@pantommy he’s a survivor of the Cambodian genocide and is extremely nihilist as a result, nothing in life is worth anything unless he can use it for tactical advantage This is reflected in his design, with his gimmick being the least grounded to humanity compared to all the others Monsoon’s rôle when confronting raiden is to represent the loss of humanity raiden exhibits every time he goes sicko mode
I take umbrage over the fact you called Monsoon "not a very good character". Monsoon is AMAZING, and almost outshines everyone else in that bananas game. But, context is key. There's a fun little mechanic in the fight that not only tells you how well you're doing, but also unveils a little bit about Monsoon as a character. If you play poor, he will cointnue to spout one-liners about being a maniac, about his "utopia of death", and other such edgelord stuff, taunting you the whole way, capping it off with "Do your worst" at the end before you chop him into confetti. If you do well, he begins to stutter, question his own point of view on the world and his own philisophical nature, and caps it all off by begging for his life. I could sit here and write a bloody essay about this memelord, but I'm not gonna bore you with details you can honestly find in his Wiki page or the game itself.
Hey that's fair. I don't generally look to the wiki for ideas, only to confirm what I've already said so that way I'm not just copying their work. I never knew about that Monsoon tidbit. It's gotta be tough to see since I S-ranked him and still got the normal dialogue.
@@pikmonwolf Considering the footage, it's probably because you spammed his weakness (EMP Granades), which IS there for use and WOULD help net an S-Rank, but that counts as copping out of the fight and playing into his mindset (do whatever it takes to survive). But, yeah, look up the wiki, listen to some Codec Convos about him, and pay attention to what he says in and out of the fight. There's quite a bit more going on than the surface, bombastic edginess.
Wholeheartedly agree. And it is clear that Monsoon does have a purpose for being so edgy. His backstory (Which isn't too clear, I will admit) tells of a man that has been beaten down to the point of losing purpose in life, deciding that he would rather give up his past life and embrace nature, ie his complaints about society's memes and his talk of predator vs prey. Edit: This can even be inferred a bit through the lyrics of his theme: "Wash away the sorrow, all the stains of time. But there's no memory, it's only dry inside"' The wiki on it definitely sums it up well metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/The_Stains_of_Time
I'm always saying that being an edgelord is all about keeping a delicate balance. People want to be the dark brooding in the corner loner, or be the crazy smiles while he cleaves you apart with no effort guy, but never with anything to balance it out. Ignoring the Shadow game and thinking about him in adventure 2 where he was introduced, he's a guy who comes out of nowhere, fights Sonic, leaves on a "draw" twice, and talks about how he's the ultimate life form, with the plan to destroy humanity. But throughout the game he also, saves Rouge when he doesn't have to, acknowledges Sonic as a worthy rival to be respected, and fights to save humanity on Amy Rose's wishes when she reminds him of Maria, going so far as to sacrifice himself in the process. Shadow the hedgehog as he was initially written is an edgelord, balanced out by how Maria affected him. That first one I mentioned, the brooding loner despite being in a group? That's an old character named Hiei, classic stuff, has black fire, starts as a villain, uses power beyond their actual control for the classic holding your arm with overwhelming power inside it, is straight up a demon, has the highest body count on screen with a nearly 100% kill rate in the tournament arc. He's also secretly protecting his little sister who went on a journey to find him while not telling her who he is, and his initial ploy to use a magic sword to turn all of humanity into zombie slaves was to find her when he stopped being able to find her with his magic eye ability. Edgelord, balanced out by the rest of the main cast and his main goal actually being to protect his cinnamon roll sister. And the second one, the op guy with the slasher smile? It's just Kenpachi, I probly don't even gotta explain who he is to you. Balanced out by Yachiru being latched onto him all the time, an actual bubbly pink child that most people designing a character while thinking about how cool they thought Kenpachi was would probly have their character kill happily. I like to call this state of being where you've reached an understanding of balance in your edge with both the other characters and the setting you are in, "Elder Edgelord" Also lmao Felix has conversations with another character named Ashe who reads their equivalent of internet light novels and fawns over Felix like a Sasuke fanboy
You're very right about balance. In Shadow the Hedgehog they try to use Maria in that same way, but the complete nonsense way the story is told prevents anything more complicated from actually working. Also some people say Ashe is dull, and I disagree, a big part of that is he has a lot of good supports.
The Shadow the hedgehog really didn't do Shadow’s character justice unlike sonic games like SA2, heros, and 06 where he actually has great moments and development.
Everyone forgets he had amnesia in that game so he wasn't acting as himself. That being said the game is a mess continuity wise too and the true ending ends with him coming to the exact same conclusion he did in heroes, just with several dozen extra steps, anyway. To leave the past in the past and move forward.
I think a huge problem with "edgy" characters is because of games like StH, there's this idea that edgy is meant to be cool and badass and in my opinion that's not what an edgy character should be. An edgy character shouldn't be someone you want to emulate, characters that are edgy are usually that way because of an event in their lives that led to them adopting those mannerisms, it's not their entire personality, they aren't edgy to be cool, I think of Dante and Vergil from DMC for this. Both characters are edgy in their own ways, Vergil being cold, stoic and obsessed with his own personal strength while Dante is wacky, happy go lucky and doesn't take anything including himself seriously. They're on both sides of the edgy spectrum but they've both got reason for being like that, they're using the edginess as coping mechanisms for traumatic events from their childhood. Same for pretty much the entirety of MGR's main cast, they're all edgy to the point of absurdity but except for maybe Sundowner they're all edgy for reasons stemming from personal trauma Raiden being a child soldier Mistral being in the height of the France-Algeria civil war Monsoon being born in the midst of the Khmer Rouge regime Sam losing what he felt was his purpose in life at Armstrong's hands. All these characters are edgy because they're traumatized, deeply troubled individuals that are coping with life in these ways, another one I think of is Goro Majima from Yakuza. His Mad Dog persona is a take no prisoners, do or die, live life on the edge type of person. He's insane and everyone in a room will know that in the first minute of seeing him. But as the games go on you learn more and more that "The Mad Dog" is just a front for who Majima really is. He hides a lot of personal trauma under the guise of being this lunatic that lives in the moment every day. Edgy was never meant to be cool to me, edgy is meant to be used as a front to hide who the character really is, an extreme way to cope with harsh lives, it's not meant to be something you want to be, but rather something you want to avoid being.
Just wanna say one quick thing about Shadow: Yes, in his own game, Shadow is, in fact, an edge lord. In SA2, Heroes, and 06, Shadow has MUCH better writing, and isn't an edge lord. Post 06, Shadow has been turned into an edge lord.
He's DEFINITELY an edgelord in Heroes, 06, and and Adventure 2-he's just well written. Post 06-other than rivals and chronicles though he's just cringe (even rivals makes him sort of cringe).
If you can imagine a character being like food, Then edginess is kinda like salt It doesn't fit everything, is disgusting when it's the only thing you eat (not to mention unhealthy), and it is used as seasoning, not a dish, seasoning
@@antonioscendrategattico2302 good point, but I could only think of salt because at the time me had small brain, NOW........ I still have small brain, but atleast I learned something right?
In Shadow’s case (the character himself), Shadow was actually written well and is interesting in Sonic Adventure 2 (his debut game), Sonic Heroes, Sonic Battle, and even in Sonic ‘06. Shadow’s actual character lies more in those games than in Shadow ‘05 which is the game that causes the misconception of Shadow just being an edgy tryhard child and nothing more, which couldn’t be more further from the truth and to judge his entire character solely based on Shadow ‘05 is completely misunderstanding his actual character at best and flat out ignorant at worst. You’re taking and looking at one piece of the picture and then judging the entire picture based on that piece alone. That’s not how judging a character with more than one appearances in titles work, dude. That kind of unfair judgement is exactly what causes characters like Shadow to become misunderstood and misinterpreted entirely. Even some of the Sonic products in the 2010’s made this mistake. Honestly the only reason to call Shadow an edge lord is because it’s the cool and funny thing to do so and nothing more. It isn’t looking at the entire character in all of their appearances in the series itself, it’s only looking at one piece of him then proceeding to judge his entire character as being that one piece. It’s ignorant and rather biased. A bad judgement of character that happens both for fictional characters/game/movie/tv show/franchise/comics/manga/anime etc. and in real life for people and animals. Shadow The Hedgehog is a good character when you are not solely viewing him through Shadow ‘05 and nothing more. Either some or a good majority of people don’t get that, which causes misconceptions to be spread around and taken as the truth. That’s my one issue with this video and how people view Shadow in general these days, but I guess I can’t entirely hold it against you when you had spent a lot of time beating Shadow ‘05 ten times just to get the true ending, which is a stupid and unnecessary fault of the game itself. There’s always room for corrections for future videos after all. No hard feelings. (Edit: When I meant by judging a character in more than one appearance of theirs, I should’ve specified it as judging all of their *canonical* appearances in the series, not really their *non-canon* appearances. That would make more sense. Another thing is I’m liking the conversation in the replies here, I’m welcome to people sharing their views on Shadow’s portrayals and how well their written with me.)
I don't mean to burst your bubble but Shadow was an edge lord back in his debut game as well. In Sonic Adventure 2, he's barely a character, the whole reason he seeks revenge is because he misinterpreted Maria's wish. It does that annoying thing where the flashback cuts off before the important part. If he really knew Maria as well as he did, why would he jump to revenge as her wish? And before someone says that it was because he was only a week old before the raid, you would have to read the wiki on Shadow to know this, it isn't explained in the game. Third party information is not allowed as an excuse for poor writing, a movie/game/tv show should stand on it's own without you having to turn it off to read a book or wiki entry to understand what is going on in the story. The scene where he goes to save Rouge could have been good if it weren't framed as though Maria told him to save her. This doesn't change him much by the way, he's still excited to watch Eggman use the Eclipse Cannon. Then we get to his redemption ark, all that basically happened is that Amy said something similar to what Maria says which triggers the rest of Shadow's memory of her dying wish which feels very contrived. While we are on that note, why is Amy so invested in Shadow's redemption? The reason she helped reform Gamma was because he let her out and helped her escape. All she knows about Shadow is that he framed her boyfriend and enabled her worst enemy to have more power than he's had in years. It is to Maria that the credit for Shadow's redemption goes to, not Amy, as if one conversation with her is enough to change Shadow's hard set perspective on humanity. The only reason that the rest of the flashback doesn't play when we first see it is because if did, then Shadow wouldn't go through with Gerald's plan and the story would be over. I know people say that Gerald reprogramed Shadow to make him more willing to go through with this plan because he says that he designed Shadow's mind to be perfect and pure. But they misinterpreted the context of that scene, Gerald is referring to when he first created Shadow, not something he did after he escaped G.U.N. All Shadow has as motivation is Maria's death which is very weak, he should know that by virtue of Maria and Gerald existing that, not all humans are evil. This is why his decision to go along with Gerald's plan is going to extremes. Sonic Heroes did Shadow a little better because he is not focused on revenge and he wants to regain his memory. There is the scene where he helps Rouge attack Team Sonic, with ego being the limp justification for the fight, but pretty much all the rival battles in Heroes are poorly written. This is because they had already put them in the story mode before they even figured out what the story was. The Shadow game is already spoken for but the cliffhanger at the end of Team Dark's story is almost completely dropped. It is limited to two non-cannon endings and concluded on the side with some dialogue from Eggman that might play if you let the final boss fight drag on for 8 minutes. The fact that none of the 10 endings could connect to the final story segment eliminates any sense of character progression, so Shadow just randomly decides to put his past behind him without it being something he learned. That is why in 06, he almost feels like a completely different character. I will admit that he is a better character than what came before but the way he got here makes no sense. You are correct that Shadow is actually better written than he was in the last game but that isn't saying much. His character in 06 amounts to "I want to make a team to stop Mephiles, being heroes is good" which is no different than the Snyderverse Batman in Justice League. As a matter of fact, Shadow has a lot in common with that Batman who also changed his perspective because of a ridiculously contrived piece of information involving a dead girl whose name begins with M.
@@georgesummitt1980 I’m not going to pretend that the Sonic Franchise has the best writing in terms of story and characters especially when compared to other media. At the very least, I can claim that the Project Shadow Lore is one of the more well-written stories *specifically* in the Sonic Franchise. Even if Shadow’s story arc isn’t perfect, it still managed to interest fans a ton and Shadow still managed to be loved by fans to a breakout character level (I don’t intend to use the popularity of something to excuse the overall quality of that thing). Even if he isn’t the best written character, he still means a lot to myself and many other fans throughout the years regardless.
@@Probably_JENOVA I do agree that the writing, post 2010 for Sonic in general is even worse than the games from 1998 to 2009. I just wish that people consider the realty of the story's quality. I also think that 2010 to present Shadow is worse than past Shadow because instead of improving on his existing backstory, SEGA doubled down on the criticism of Shadow and made him a one dimensional bully with no redeeming qualities. For all the criticism I just flung at Shadow, I would never call him one dimensional like 2010 Shadow.
The Sonic Franchise has a huge flanderization problem. Almost every character's gotten it at some point even Sonic himself. Especially in the newer games. Then again I guess that's what happens when you hire writers who knew nothing about the games before starting and just read a Wikipedia article.
I kinda wish Shadow's portrayal in Sonic Adventure 2 was brought up in the video. It doesn't fit the point super well to be honest, but it does also very clearly displays how to write a good and likeable edgelord.
@@pikmonwolf Why would you make a video essay about edgy characters and go on tangents on "Shadow the Hedgehog-esque" characters if you only have a surface level understanding of his motives and personality?
@@pikmonwolf Why are you making an entire video dissecting Shadow the Hedgehog and the very concept of his character when you don't even know who Shadow the Hedgehog actually is beyond the one single piece of the franchise that potrayed his character in the worst way possible? You're judging Shadow based on Shadow's game, which is the worst depiction of his character and not even his introduction. Shadow was introduced in Sonic Adventure 2, where he was written completely differently. If you don't know who Shadow actually is, don't make a video making fun of and laughing at him. Playing "Shadow the Hedgehog (2005)" 10 times to get the true ending is not, at all, going to inform you on Shadow the Hedgehog as an actual character in the way he was originally designed, portrayed and intended to be. There's far more to Shadow than "middle school kid going through an emo phase".
Because I'm explicitly talking about his game and his game alone which is what fuels the perception of his character. And since that's what I was discussing I made sure to do my due diligence and get the true ending on my own (which was a big pain) just so that way I get a proper look at his character in it in the intended way it's supposed to be presented. I probably should've used less general language tbh, but you can't deny this game forever shaped how people view the character and that's a big thing I'm talking about.
@@pikmonwolf You spent the good half of 4 minutes explaining the intricacy of a character from the Dragon Age game that people make fun of the most for being objectively lesser then the others in its saga. Despite that you clearly have some love for the character and the game, you aren't talking about it in negative connotations, you've spent a good amount of time reflecting on the character and did your homework on who they are as a character. Your "generalist" point of view regarding Shadow doesn't seem to be holding up super well when half of the comments are saying "Yeah STH was a bad game, but I really loved him in SA2". Normies aren't going to watch this video and don't even directly interact with most mediums outside of Marvel consumption to fit in. The topic isn't for them. Doing anything less then understanding your topic makes for an annoying experience, you have a very clearly skewed vision of these characters and should have looked into it better if you were going to sit down and make something like this. I would argue the only difference between Fenris and Shadow is when he reaches the finale of his arc, he doesn't have a grazing period where he gets to make Jennifer Hepler esque banter between his friends, cause he dies doing the right thing (SA2). Shadow never wanted to be who he is, he watched the military gun down a child and it warped him forever. Next time I would advise you not to make an essay video half-measured.
Ayyy the video came out! And Monsoon got included! Thanks for using my suggestion Another interesting note about him: in the dlc and side logs, Monsoon is revealed to be a survivor of the Cambodian Genocide, and is far more nihilistic in his views than his base-game cutscenes let on. The game manages to give his edginess meaning without making it come off as cringe or pitiful
Indeed, great suggestion that ended up getting me to replay MGR. I ended up not doing the 'idea contribution' thing in the corner just because I talked about him for awhile and kinda merged it with Raiden. So I had no idea when to have it and for how long without being disruptive, etc... I can add a little note to the description if you like.
I salute you for playing Shadow the Hedgehog 10 times just for a 20 minute video, you’re a trooper🫡 To expand on your point, I think the idea of an edgy character wanting happiness bleeds into the rule of major characters needing a flaw. The flaw for these characters is simply that they are unhappy, and they have to deal with that in whatever way the story presents. I don’t see edginess itself as a flaw because it typically only affects the character in a minor way negatively, like people liking them less. Shadow, Kai Lang, and Edgelord McGee from Hatred are all unlikable, but don’t have any major flaws in the story and are just emotionless one-man armies. Characters need a flaw that ties directly to their personality, or else they end up having about as much depth as a kiddie pool. Edginess without flaws or a desire to change only works if you specifically don’t want a character to get any emotional investment from the player (Monsoon, Doomguy, etc.).
Honestly I'd argue that Monsoon isn't a great character and it's just his character design that's cool. Other than that, he's just an average nihilist.
@@pikmonwolf The funny part about this is that fans of Shadow are super fucking pissed off how the series kind of takes the piss out of him being an edgelord nowadays as opposed to playing him completely straight like before.
Shadow is only a bad character when you are solely viewing through Shadow ‘05 alone. If you want a good form of Shadow, then look at Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Battle, and even Sonic ‘06 for his campaign alone where he is a developed character that puts the past behind him and determines his own fate for himself. You’re only viewing one piece of the picture and then proceeding to judge it as being the entire picture instead of looking at all of the other pieces of the picture. That’s part of the problem with misconceptions and a bad judgement of character.
@@pikmonwolf I was talking about the mod, but yeah. Now that I know audio balancing I could make him tolerable all on my own! At least in the videos. 😂
The only thing i like about Kai leng is pretty much the laughing stock he became in the mass effect community God if i love those "Good. You opened this message." Memes
Watching Varric's charm wear down cynical, disaffected characters is truly one of the delights of the DA series. His interactions with Fenris are amazing, his philosophical debates with Solas are beautiful, and his arguments with Cassandra are...just...perfection. He has less success with man-boy edge lord Carver, but Carver is still a great character, also written to be ridiculous, slightly annoying, and to have a character arc that bends toward happiness.
Varric is a character who only works because his writing is so clean. He's genuinely charming enough that it's believable he gets through to all these people.
Since FE Thre Houses was mentioned I'd like to put in Dimitri as an edgy character done right imo. He's dark and mysterious early on, goes wacky mid game, and redeems himself during the end
I really do love Dimitri's arc but it has a couple blunders. IMO the entire gronder field chapter is a dumpster fire mess of good ideas executed awfully. Which is a shame since it's home to his most iconic line.
I think it's VERY fair to say that below Shadow's thick red and black blanket of edginess, there is a lot of depth and a huge character arc, even in his own game to be found, i'd argue it's not very far away from what happens to Fenris.
alot of people have said this i think, but shadow is DEFINETLY not an edgelord. it's just the later games that make him bad and edgy, in sa2 and heroes and 06, he's just introverted and isnt good at expressing emotions thats all.
@@esukgfjyijlgul5335 well the definition goes like this "a person who affects a provocative or extreme persona, especially online (typically used of a man)."
What makes a good "Edgelord" is if a character has earned such a title. whether its a Characters Past, Like Genuine Mental Trauma. Their Façade, or the way they show their "edgy-ness" But most important of all, if they can deviate from their character if they experience something new, like an offer from someone else to help or discovering something they thought they would never see. If their snide contempt is explainable and reasonable.
shadow the hedgehog in SA2 was actually much better written back then. cause the point was a story of someone learning to trust and bond with peoples, and chosing his own path instead of why he would be created. shadow the edgelord game is a huge dunk on the character. and onward except a few scenes of shadow being more his SA2 self.
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 well, I remember being a true ending when he sacrifice himself no? (it's being a while since i've watch a playthrought of it) when he go super shadow, and embrace his own path, and trying to do the right thing ect. he was edgy, but he was a good version because he still had some grow, and in the end, the desire to do things in his own term, that being helping those he care about, being a hero ect.
Come to think of it, the Shadow the Hedgehog game wrote copied the homework. Shadow is on a quest to find out his past, who he is, and is supposed to be. Believes gathering the chaos emeralds will reveal that to him, and you get to choose for him, ranging from hero to villain. But in the final chapter, when he has all the emeralds and is confronted with all the puzzles pieces, he chooses his own path, comes to terms with his past and starts to focus on the future instead. You can choose his journeys, but not his conclusion. Edgy.
Yeah as a Shadow fan I try to forget Shadow the Hedgehog lol, honestly Adventure 2,Heroes,and 06 had some really good writing for Shadow, Adventure 2 introduced him in way where he starts with wanting revenge and seeks to destroy the world, only for Amy to make him remember what Maria wanted. Heroes had him have amnesia, but at the end of his story he throws it all away and comes to the conclusion it doesn't matter who he is. And 06 had him come to terms with the fact that someday humanity will betray him but he refuses give up on them and closes to fight like he always has. I like to refer to Shadow in 2 different ways, Adventure Shadow which includes Heroes and 06 Shadow, and Colors Shadow (which would include him in Shadow the Hedgehog) were hes a 1 note edgy asshole
It's not Shadow the Hedgehog the game that you should forget, it's the horrible Mistranslations in that game that you should forget. And replay the entire game with the OG Japanese.
I don't think edgelord's are bad. I never understood how people started the trend of "edgelord = bad" despite the fact that some are actually well written. But regardless what people also need to understand is Shadow *_IS NOT_* an edgelord NOR is he an edgy character. At least that's not what the REAL Shadow is. Current Shadow in Sonic's trash tier writing? Maybe. But as he was in his prime in Adventure 2 through 06 (minus Shadow's game in the era)? No. He didn't even check the first tick on an edgelord checklist (that being the most important) monologuing about his dark tragic past and talking about how no one understood him. You only got glimpses of his past and promised Maria revenge. That was it. He never actually cursed outside of Shadow, anyone ever noticed that? In Shadow's game he was as generically edgy as you could get. But that whole gun wielding, swearing, all that garbage acquitted to edgy characters were never present with him. Wearing black, folding your arms, saying "hmph" and wanting to be a loner of the group doesn't mean you're edgy. You're just anti-social with your own mental walls. I'm sick of people classifying Shadow as an Edgelord and it's time to stop. Put Shadow the Hedgehog's Shadow in the edgelord category if you wish, hell put Modern Shadow/BOOM Shadow into the edgelord category. But don't, don't, *_DON'T_* put Adventure 2, Sonic 06, OR Sonic Heroes Shadow into that category. He doesn't fit, he doesn't belong there, you're wrong so knock that shit off.
"He never actually cursed outside of Shadow, anyone ever noticed that?" Everyone noticed that. It's kind of that game's thing, and it kind of wouldn't be if the others did it too.
Talking about shadow as if he's nothing more than a character to be laughed at actually hurt me. I really empathize with the character due to the other titles, and i don't find the overt edginess of his title game to even be funny. I think it's completely normal for cartoon characters to have guns and swear, and i honestly don't understand why other people find it funny while I myself don't. I get that it's how both the edginess of everything contrasts with the inherently light hearted nature of cartoon characters, but i just... Don't feel that it's funny, and i am able to take it completely seriously. Is there something wrong with me? I am genuinely asking, why am I not laughing at Shadow the hedgehog even though I should be laughing at him considering that everyone else does? In fact, i feel rather offended by the thought of people laughing at it, because i myself don't understand why I am not finding it funny. Why am I not laughing at the “damn chaos emeralds” meme? I just watch the cutscene and don't feel a thing, i take it seriously because i don't see a cartoon character saying “damn” as bad, but the mere fact that people make fun of it makes me wonder if I have a mental problem or something.
It seems you just easily connect to the game's world, really. You see past the artstyle and just immerse yourself, there's not really anything wrong with you. I myself am in the middle, or rather, I can pick whichever "mood" to take media with. I can immerse myself completely, or I can look from a more relaxed POV and laugh.
I should've clarified that I was mainly talking about Shadow in his game and the public perception of him. The writing of his game is pretty much nonsense when I've seen plenty of people discussing much better writing in the other games. And even if I wasn't, you're never wrong for liking a character who you resonate with. Writing quality is about general rules and what tells a good story, but every person is an individual and is allowed to enjoy what speaks to them.
It’s not that cartoo characters can’t have guns. It’s just the the complete change up from the norm in the sonic series. Shadows near light speed powerful near god like being. Why the hell does he need guns. He never needed it before. It was just a clear thing to make him seem more cool and give him a gun. The motorcycle too. Why does he need it 😂
Cool video, but the thing with Shadow, real fans don't like his portrayal in the 2005 game, moderm fans that like that "self-aware" thing modern Sonic does genuienly enjoy Shadow in an ironic way (Boom and the IDW Comics) which breaks my heart because i was a 2000's kid, me and everyone i knew loved Shadow because he was a tragic hero, his arc started with him as the villain but it was a Revenge story turned into one of forgiveness and redention Sonic Adventure 2 it's one of my favorite stories Shadow in Heroes was the man on the mission but also THE cool guy In 06 he was the straight man that got the job done and even when the freacking devil told him the world will betray him he sticks to his promise he made to Maria that he will protect life on the planet, since Shadow was created for the purpose of serving he's on his own way searching hapiness by keeping his promise On Black Knight and Forces he's just cool and straight to the point And in Battle the gigachad even says "No one deserves to suffer my pain" I love this character but it's a shame that the first thing people will ever known about Shadow is his own game and that parody of his in Sonic Boom
I’ve always loved edgelords when done properly. Like you said monsoon in mg rising. I think a good version of edgy shadow is in sonic boom where he’s made so for comedy unlike shadow the hedgehog where it was trying to be cool. I’m not sure if she counts but I feel like raven is a good example of and edgelord.
Honestly after playing Shadow The Hedgehog, it's hard to see any direction they could've taken besides making him a parody. The games just that much of a mess lol
@@pikmonwolf Another key feature I've noticed of a bad edgelord vs a good edgelord is their complete lack of empathy for others who would be in a similar situation. People who've actually been through trauma will absolutely have trust issues and seclude themselves, and will absolutely show only disdain or hate for people who remind them of those who wronged them, but should refuse to let others go through what they did. The difference between a good edgelord and a bad edgelord to me is whether they help people who are also in a bad situation or whether they kick people while they're down to "prove they're the most powerful".
I strongly disagree. Depicting an edgy character as a parody trying to be cool is just as overplayed and basic as a character being given too much edge. Since its trying and failing to be meta by referring to the edgy traits that we as audience members hate. In my opinion I think the best way to create a good edgy character is to simply balance out their edgy character traits with non edgy character traits. Don't have their core character be defined by only one singular thing (or be mostly defined by one thing)
I don't really fault Boom (the show anyway, haven't played the games) for making him the over the top edgelord character. Pretty much all of them have parts of their character exaggerated for the sake of comedy, so it fits. It only bothers me in stories that are meant to be taken more seriously.
In Shadow’s case it was never about being an edgelord until his self-titled spinoff game, which wasn’t even written by the same person who wrote his story arcs in Adventure 2, Heroes, and 06. Those games portrayed him as a character who went from being misunderstood and lost to becoming a hero who would do anything to save the world and keep his promise even if it meant dying. And that’s because his character arc was always meant to be a redemption arc where he could grow as a person at the end of his story and in future games. Instead they took the one game where his personality sucked (the Shadow spin-off game) and ran with that edgelord persona for every game he appeared in during the 2010’s. Hopefully they can fix his character in future games because nobody likes shadow when he’s written as someone who doesn’t have friends and hates everything. That’s not how shadow was ever supposed to be and it’s embarrassing for sega to do that to him
Post 2010 Sega: Shadow doesn't have friends and hates everything. Me: (Laughs in Rouge and Omega). Seriously though, this has been a problem for a lot of post 2010 Sonic characters. It took the second Sonic movie for Knuckles to through off the weird "dumb braggart jock who exists to be humiliated" persona he picked up during this period and become something closer to the wise warrior-monk he was originally. Hopefully the movies can also fix Shadow as well.
Guys, Japanese! That is always the dub to go by when playing every Sonic game (except Frontiers). Shadow 05 had the worst translation errors in any of the games.
My favorite edge lord is guts from berserk. He was fueled by hate and revenge, and for good reason; but throughout the story he is redeemed, going from a threat to anyone in his path to a hero that wants to help people
I like Hubert a lot, so I'm biased but while Felix is the best Edgeboy of 3h I honestly thought Hubert's works well too. In part perhaps, because the cast is large enough that it's interesting to see similar character traits handled in different manners. Hubert's edge is characterized as Edelgard needs a path from A to B and he cuts the cleanest line, regardless of what that costs, he's a good example of 'ruthless' to me, it's not cruelty for its own sake, merely for practicalities sake. Also, he's my favorite example of how the game writes different characters and their dialog with an in-house Byleth verses out, he changes very little, but clearly keeps things closer to his chest. and is every so slightly more helpful and accommodating to BL Byleth. the ludo narrative dissonance of him being so willing to flee is annoying, especially because it could have easily been lessened by him just being deployed less, or having Edelgard give some line about him prioritizing his life, like they give Claude with Hilda or something. but great video!
I think it's fair enough to like Hubert, that's why I didn't really dive into him too much. To me one of the biggest things that annoys me is how in his support with Dorothea he's like "You fucking idiot, you absolute cretin, you sniveling piece of filth, no I don't love Edelgard, people can care about people for other reasons you ingrate." (paraphrasing slightly) Then in his A support with Edelgard he's like "Hey I'm actually in love with you, big shock right?" and his hypocrisy/rudeness is just not acknowledged. I feel like as a whole he's just very hypocritical and his motivation of "be a jerk while helping Edelgard" never changed form start to end.
@@pikmonwolf he does change a lot less than other characters, and I can see that as a fault. and yeah his A support with Edelgard is probably the worst support in the whole game imo. Especially compared to his parallel character Dedue, who is allowed to be undyingly to the definition of fault, to Dimitri, for complex and nuanced, entirely platonic, reasons, but like apparently a dude can't be loyal to a girl unless he's in love her. and they don't even respect, the potential for nuance interpretation by only making it romantic in the epilogue cards like so many others do. bleck
@@bunk-o2495 Yeah I think Dedue is a great comparison for an undying loyal retainer. He's done just so much better with a much more complex relationship between him and Dimitri. And both of them only get half the screen time of Hilda in Part 2 lol.
In my opinion the best kinds of edgy characters are not just ones who want to be happy but also ones who relish in their edginess and make fun villains. You already mentioned Monsoon, but my pick is Terumi from Blazblue. The main character in these games is edgy too but he's surrounded by a world of people that call him out on it, the villain on the other hand that being Terumi is terrifying in his edge. He's responsible for all the bad things that happen in half the casts life, and he has a LOT of fun doing what he does. Yeah he also has a tragic backstory but that doesn't erase everything that he's done. if Kai Leng's problem if that he's edgy with nothing to show for it, then where Terumi excellence is he's not just edgy but he's got a lot to show for it.
A good confirmation of this was the perception of Infinite before Sonic Forces was relased and after. When all we knew was his design and his theme song, the character was fun, and was poking fun in a way that was reveling in its own edge. So he was fun, and even looped back to being cool because it was having fun with it. And lets be real, being edgy is a cheap, fun power fantasy. After the game, it was revealed he was a paper-thin character with none of the confidence of the song, nor was he enjoying his own power fantasy. So, we don't either, and as such, he's just a nothing character you can't even hate because that suggests he can produce a strong emotion.
@@kidprime6863 In My Hero Academia, the mangaka initially made Bakugo come off as too toxic, which he would later regret. Don’t get me wrong, the writing for him has improved since then, but bullying someone to the point of telling them to commit suicide is less “brooding anti-hero” and more “repressed psychopath.”
Edgy characters will always have a place in my heart. They always make any story more fun when used correctly. Characters like Dark Pit, Shiki Nanaya and Terumi never fail to spice things up whenever they are on screen.
I enjoy this video, but I feel it speaks of what makes a good character too authoritatively. A character who doesn't want to be happy can still be compelling and interesting, in my opinion.
The Hubert bit was unexpected as hell and hit me like a truck. Good job! I'd ask for an episode, but that would only be 2 minutes long, with how little about him there is worth talking about :v
Shadow actually really wasn't that edgy in SA2 and Heroes, he's just "an older Sonic if he lost his best friend" type of character. We see him get along with team Dark really well and he's the first and I think only character in Sonic's animal cast that we actually see crying in any game (during his final conversation with Amy). It all started in his own spinoff game and 06 was left to pick up the pieces and salvage what Shadow The Hedgehog broke. Unfortunately since 06 was shit people mostly didn't care and the edgelord identity stuck.
So I wanna say I mostly agree with what u've said here but I feel u REALLY limit what can constitute as a "good" edgelord since like wit anythin it's down to opinion & u never truly know what will resonate with the most amount of ppl possible but I don't disagree wit the ones u brought up, but I ain't a writer so I wouldn't know those other ones or put them to words despite me feelin they do exist. I know this ain't relevant to the main topic of the vid BUT on another note as a SONIC fan I wanna add that the English dub/ver./localization of Shadow the Hedgehog 2005 is an INCREDIBLY BUTCHERED version of the original Japanese Script of the game makin it MASSIVELY misrepresentative of the story and Shadow as a character. The game actually has a really good story with MUCH less swearing & makes 100x more sense instead of bein the OVERLY-EDGY/CONFUSIN swear fest of a game the western localization made the game out to be. idk who thought it was a good idea to do that but here we are with the game cus of it(tho when it comes to to translatin japanese things like scripts to english the 90s-2000s were def a rough time & from the first game the Sonic franchise was no diff lol). So blame the localization team not the writer(s). Shadows actual character in both this and SA2 def falls more within the "edgy cus of a dark past but wants to be happy" section of your vid. Shadow since he was made in sonics image both in game lore & in outside concept is def "edgy" but not in the way u described him here. Jus wanted to get rid of the misconception sry for the long paragraph/rant
for me the most important part of an edgelord or an edgy peice of media is that it knows its edgy and doesnt care. MGR is an edgy game and it knows it, but it really doest care what you think of it, it revels in that edgy atmosphere and honestly I cant fault it for that, because its just fun.
@@ikagura not so much self awarness. "self aware" Edge can come off as self mocking and therefore Boring, like yeah, we get it, hes edgy, what else you got. What I am talking is *post* self aware edgy, where the writters know its edgy but are not being tongue in cheak with it. its sincerity I think.
I have the perfect way to test if a character is edgy or not. If you can play metal/grunge on while looking at the character talk, move, fight without it being akward it's an edgy character.
Yeah edge lords arent always bad they are often my favorite characters wen done right vergil for exemple is my favorite video game character ever along with dante and jin kazama
Monsoon goes even deeper than that scene too! If you pay attention and find out his backstory, you find out he's a scared hypocrite hiding behind a shell of nihilism because he's been wrecked by war. But yeah, i love this video, i love edgy characters even edgelords, they do certainly have a bad rap but.... "that's because i'm misunderstood."
Me personally edgelords are ok if done right. Also Shadow was never originally supposed to be an edgelord, it's mainly due to the writers falling for misconceptions about the character that he became an edgelord which is why people don't like it.
it’s a slap in the face to shadow the hedgehog fans when people say he’s an edge lord, he’s one of the most misunderstood characters ever because he wasn’t supposed to be edgy when he was first introduced in sonic adventure 2
@@pikmonwolf Trust me shadows story in 06 is peak shadow arc and in the end even becomes less edgy and isnt the over bearing prick from his title game There actually is a point. its worth it. Tbh aside from a few lore contradictions 06 story overall is pretty fair and alright its just minor issues that everyone value as the bigger issues that give the game a bad rep Also the fact that the game is buggy and cracked as hell
This is actually a good analysis video. Very true, edgy characters almost find one's humanity to be some they want/desire but fear if it would make them weak.
@@fortymcmeme3846 Cuase its mental gear. Memes in those games have always had different meaning to them. Since their introduction earlier on in the series. Just look it up
Kinda annoying you only talked about Shadow’s game to represent him instead of Sonic Adventure 2, Heroes, and Sonic 06. Even Sonic fans hate how terrible the destroyed Shadow’s character in that game. That game does not represent Shadow at all
@@pikmonwolf yeah, i'm aware of that haha, but i'll get by might show you something when it's done if you want, although it's of course not my primary focus rn
Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) is the absolute worst example and a terrible characterization of who Shadow is as a character. The writer for Shadow was a different person from the writer of SA2, Heroes, and 06, and fundamentally misunderstood the character. Shadow is not meant to be an emotionless edge lord jackass who swears all the time and just does whatever he wants for shits and giggles, and I don't know why you didn't bring up his other far better games when you talked about his character.
It's your opinion The fact is... Sonic never followed "Canon Rules of Gaming" So every game is, in a way, considerable This one specifically, considering it's the ONLY to follow past games's stories
@@alexziggy1508 what about Heroes, where Shadow is alive, tries to remember who he is, and ultimately accepting his new self? Look, I agree that this game's story is bad But I can't just look away at how it added to SA2 Black Doom (a really powerful ancient alien being) giving his blood to Prof. Gerald to create the ultimate life form AFTER the failure of the Biolizard in SA2 It's just well connected (About Gerald's failure and something beyond human capacity, I mean) But then we have G.U.N Commander He's just bad/horrible
No of course not necessarily. Whether you are a edgelord does not matter at all. It just matters if your being honest and true about who you are to the best of your ability. A trait that humans struggle with unfortunately because being part of a large group often kills any free thought an individual has. One day hopefully we will let everyone be who they really are(unless they violate the law through violence or stealing). But also able to stand together when we must. The best of both worlds.
Shadow the Hedgehog may not be the perfect edgy character but he’s a fun edgy character. Like in previous games, Shadow isn’t really “mood and Darkness” like most edgy character are, (except for that game you just shown) he’s just puts up a tough guy act. Plus he has been shown to get along with many Sonic characters, most notably Omega and Rouge. I guess you can say he’s a furry version of Vegata (Dragon Ball Z).
I think that bit about good edgy characters needing to want to be happy but not letting themselves be happy is exactly why Vergil from Devil May Cry works so well. He's a half demon, half human who tries as hard as he can to supress his humanity because he views it as nothing but a vulnerability. But we see throughout the 3rd and 5th game that he can't do this, no matter how hard he tries or how much he tells himself that he doesn't have any humanity left. He's still attached to his half of his mother's amulet in DMC3, the only memento left from his human mother, and we see at the end of the game Vergil drops the amulet along with his demonic father's sword, and he chooses to reach out for the amulet first. It shows us that Vergil isn't willing to give up the happy memories of his childhood for the sake of power, no matter how he presents himself. There's also the fact that Vergil very much has a personality outside of his pursuit for power. We see in his interactions with his brother Dante that he still plays into his brother's cocky personality, replying with his own cocky remarks. And of course when he temporarily works with Dante to take out the secondary antagonist, he genuinely seems to enjoy fighting alongside Dante. I think his theme song from DMC5, Bury the Light accentuates this very well. The lyrics "Bury the light deep within, cast aside there's no coming home" perfectly highlights Vergil's struggles. He doesn't believe there's a place for himself in the world, and that he can never be safe and secure, so he has to bury his humanity and act cold and ruthless in order to hide his vulnerabilities and never be hurt by other people. There's also the fact Vergil is unironically cool as shit and very charismatic so that's also a factor in making him a good edgy character
in Shadow's defense: he was done so much better in his debut in Sonic Adventure 2, and has kinda lost all semblance of character over time he went from "I swore vengence on humanity because GUN took away my best friend/sister, but as i regain my memories i realize she wanted me to save them all no matter what, so time for the hypest speedrun of a redemption arc ever" to "CAN YOU SEE ALL OF ME, CAPTURE YOU OR SET YOU FREE, I AM ALL- I AM ALL OF ME" to.... Vegeta, but dumber i blame his modern characterization on the fact SEGA has retconned away basically everything from the 2000s era, as well as the fact they placed down the cursed nails that are their mandates on how characters must be written ( _that_ one i blame on Kenders) but i could talk about this red and black gun-toting dipshit [affectionate] for hours on my own time
Man I got into the series Berserk because Guts was initially portrayed as an edgy character that tortured his enemies (who were demons). I thought that was hella cool and started watching Berserk but afterwards the series shows you WHY he went from a traumatized kid to a well adjusted man to a super edgyboi and it humanizes him to a great degree. While the series begins with him being an edgelord it later shows you his past and explain why he is the person he is.
Comparing Monsoon and Shadow the Hedgehog was the last thing I expected to see but it's actually pretty great!
I feel like they'd get along great lmao
@@pikmonwolf yes, especially if you add Komaeda and N from Pokémon into the mix
@@Yan_Alkovic Why N?
@@turaychu probably because N would be the type of person argue about philosophy right before fighting someone.
@@pikmonwolf besides not like he can kill monsoon
People on internet are weird if a character has a dark past and is rough around the edges they complain and say "their just a stereotypical edgelords"
But If a character is kind and caring they complain and say "their boring and uninteresting"
What if you got a character who has a dark past and is rough around the edges, but is also kind and caring?
You'll find that people don't really know what they want more often than not.
No matter what you do, someone will complain
I blame cartoons for the second part.
@@Drax69420 look at raiden from mgr, then you'll know
Ok believe it or fucking not, but Shadow the Hedgehog is actually written really well in Sonic 06. I mean it. Team Dark's stort in that game is actually some of the best storytelling in a mainline sonic game. He's grown a lot more since the events of SA2 & Shadow the Hedgehog & he's not a "taking candy from a baby, which is fine by me!" character anymore. He also has one of the most unironically badass lines I've heard in his final cutscene
I've seen a few comments saying that. Honestly you never see his stuff in 06 talked about, and most discussions about 06 are about it being bad, so I guess that's a sign of quality?
@@pikmonwolf It’s literally the number 1 thing brought up in any online comment section talking about Shadow thou lol.
Sonic 06's plot works better as Shadow the hedgehog 2 lol. He gets all the cool moments and goes head to head with the true main villain.
It may be named after him but Sonic got screwed in 06. The most impactful things he did were die and that one infamous moment we don't talk about.
@@Superluigi881 Are you talking about that one scene where Sonic awkwardly yells out "Elise" after she dies on the egg carrier?
@@piranhalettuce No, the kiss.
The writing with Kai Leng made me realize something about the well-written edgelords besides the desire for happiness. It's commitment to their identity. The difference between someone like Kai Leng and someone like Monsoon is like someone who is posting on 4Chan ironically and someone who's posting unironically. Good edgelords commit to their views and back them with some sort of passion, effort, or reasoning. Like for Monsoon, his unironic belief in his ideals of survival of the fittest make him more interesting as a character than someone like Kai Leng and even believes his ideals all the way up to his death where he accepts that Raiden is going to kill him. It even makes me respect Monsoon to a degree that he'd keep his ideals so close to him, even in death.
If you look at Not Important, he's only got one goal but he certainly doesn't seem to passionate about it. All he does is whine lol.
@@pikmonwolf Exactly, while every character written with even a speck of thought has a goal, I feel it doesn't quite feel attached to the character. Kai Leng's edginess feels like he's just some whiney trend-follower who thought edge is the new cool and complains when even a speck of dust doesn't go his way. Monsoon is edgy because of his ideals and goals while Kai Leng is edgy because the writers wanted something to try to be cool.
I think this is the big difference between the shit edgelords and the decent or great ones. Even Shadow falls into this since he's actually sincerely into his goal of finding his past/purpose even if the plot is fucking nonsensical until the final ending. Notim Portant and Kai Leng are all style no substance
I think its important to mention that how hard you beat Monsoon will impact what he says at the end of the fight. If you beat him without EMP's and hard enough with skill, he will actually beg for his life in his final moments, as if Jack was so terrifying it brought something out of him that he otherwise didn't see.
@A fucking Go Pro I don't think EMPs actually matter. I think was just matters if you defeat him without getting hit
"Monsoon isn't a very good character"
I'd call bs but his story nonexistent to players that don't look into the lore and the calls.
Monsoon was born in Cambodia in the late 60s and was a kid during the Cambodian genocide (1975-1979)
He witnessed some horrific stuff including the execution fields. These were places where people where beaten to death with pickaxes so the people killing them wouldn't waste bullets.
After that Monsoon was completely broken mentally. He stopped believing in free will and religion because from his point of view they were nonexistent nonsense. His speech about memes shows his nihilistic beliefs because to him a person acts the way they do because of the environment they grew up in. "Expose someone to anger long enough and they will learn to hate"
That's what happened to him.
After the Cambodian genocide, Monsoon joined the Cambodian mafia and his violent acts put a bounty on his head higher than the ones of his bosses.
After a brutal shootout, Monsoon is wounded and is about to die. For the first time in his life he opposes his nihilistic views on the world and clings to life. Soon after that he becomes a cyborg.
His design shows how much he doesn't care about his body. Now that he is a cyborg he is almost impossible to kill.
His way of dodging attacks shows that too, he doesn't bother to move his whole body to dodge, he just uses his powers to move the pieces away from Raiden's sword.
If you use too many EMPs he will believe that he was meant to lose so he would taunt Raiden. But if you manage to overwhelm Monsoon with pure skill, he starts panicking. As the fight progresses he tries to overwhelm Raiden with sheer quantity as shown when when throws helicopters, burning piles of armored vehicles and that monument. The only difference is that when you overwhelm him, he break character and begs for mercy, while if you play bad he taunts you. That doesn't matter because in the end he seems at peace, showing how little he cares about life and not even death being able to scare him for a long time. In the end he accepts death and returns to the earth, wind blows, rain falls, the strong prey on the weak, all as it should be.
Also his theme shows more of his character and explains that Monsoon has completely given up on changing.
Yea hes got good lore
You do make a very good point about how his design shows a lack of self care which I really like. And I agree his background is great.
However I still think what you see in the game isn't anything too special from it's presentation. I actually love the whole philosophy on memes and don't just see it has "hah funny guy said meme" but well, I just feel like "The strongest will survive characters who aren't too mad about getting killed" is a bit been there done that. Maybe it was more original when Revengeance came out but I don't really think so.
His panicked lines are a full on secret and one I simply missed.
Jesus Christ
Always remember that every single metal gear character has a whole textbook of lore
This is a great post. I've always felt like Stains of Time sounding more chaotic or "metal" (along with the lyrics themselves) emphasizes the characterization you explain here.
@@pikmonwolf
i mean, play well enough and you hear the panicked lines so i guess you used too many EMP’s?
The funny part is that Shadow and Felix are among the most popular characters in their respective franchises despite everything potentially wrong with both of them lmao. Being games for children actually benefits them than if they were actual full on M rated games. From how you sound, the edgelords from the "adult" games are mostly one-note boring characters who don't leave much of an impact.
But in a children's game? That shit slaps because of course children would be attracted to the character who gives the impression of being "adult" but still being kid friendly themselves, it's a fun juxtaposition. Yea, Shadow takes himself super fucking seriously but at the end of the day, he's still a 3ft cartoon hedgehog in a series where the main villain is an egg shaped mad scientist, so he can never be taken completely seriously no matter how much he frowns. And it helps that his backstory is legitimately sad, so you at least know why he's so brooding.
Its the same with Felix; no matter how much he broods and talks...he's still a teenager at the end of the day who doesn't really get the bigger picture. Some characters indulge him, while others don't take him seriously at all. And Felix himself is still a good kid at the end of the day, even if he'll never admit it. And like Shadow, you at least know why he's like that and he mellows out somewhat after the time skip.
Its ironic...a character designed to be "adult" only works in a medium designed for children.
*Pumps machine gun menacingly*
It's the restraints that help them. Having to fit into an E-T game means they can't just go with lazy 4chan edginess.
@@pikmonwolf as shadow is my favorite character in all of fiction, you only pulling from his worst interpretation in the franchise is saddening. SA2 sonic 06, some of the comics, etc, show just how good a character shadow actually is when written by people who actually understand the character, or are at least slightly competent writers, which we have lacked since sonic unleashed up till sonic frontiers, can actually be.
I love edgy characters. Even if they don't have an "edgy" personality perse. If they're, like, stoic and calm. They have a badass design and cool dark powers etc. It just appeals to me.
Edgelords can have 4 meanings
1) ACTUAL TRYHARDS (Infinite)
2) The bad boy of your friend group (eg. Shadow and Dark Pit)
3) They don't like being told what to do
4) Someone who has a serious expression on their face and is extremely quiet barely interacting with others not because they're sad or are mad at you but they simply don't want to be bothered
(they want to be left alone)
Edgelords are still cool in my book!
I heard a bit about Infinite, but I was only gonna make myself play one subpar Sonic game for this series and Shadow is way more infamous lol.
@@pikmonwolf I suffered through Forces, and Infinite reeks of edge, even more so than Shadow (outside of Shadow's game)
Would you consider broken birds (characters with such a tragic backstory you’re supposed to want to protect them) a type of edgelord, or something else?
@@Densoro that isn't really what makes an edgelord. It's their attitude to said backstory that determines if they are.
That last one basically describes an introvert lol
There's a quote I always defer to that sorta goes like:
"Childhood is making yourself think Shadow is cringe, adulthood is realizing Shadow the Hedgehog is really fucking cool"
Jokes on you. He has always been fucking cool to me
@@_Sin_ same
Kind of the opposite in reality.
@@fightingmedialounge519Not at all
@@toasterwaffleowen4709 very much so in grand scheme of things.
The word "edge" has been thrown around and lost all meaning. Now, you can't have a dark character without people calling you an edgelord. Especially characters who are *_suppose_* to be psychopaths and warmongers, like in MGR.
Well But Moonsoon really is a Nihilist Edgelord, from his design down to his personality and theme song, but the character is so unapolagetically edgy that it's freaking awesome. And all of the characters in MGR are pretty damn unapolageticallly over the top and batshit insane.
Red Sun intensifies
I think one of the biggest things about Shadow's character that's been forgotten about is his soul. It was made to replicate Maria's. He was originally pretty easygoing and the reason why he is so brooding is because he thinks humanity hates him and they killed the scientists and Maria.
Humanity never hated Shadow he was created to be the perfect being?? Gun just ruined everything by killing Maria and causing his amnesia.. it’s literally all Guns fault which is why it pisses me off he went back to go work for them in 06??
@@reallyhimongod hence "he *THINKS* humanity hates him."
@@reallyhimongod The person is talking in Shadow’s perspective through the story.
@@reallyhimongod The point of the Shadow game was that Shadow had amnesia and was trying to figure out who he is. After exploring 10 different possibilities, we get the true ending where Shadow decides to let go of the past and be his own person. Post Shadow 05, Shadow wanders the earth helping people. He only worked for GUN because Rouge worked there and she's 1 of the 2 people in the world, closest to Shadow. He's more like a freelancer for GUN. Only working for them if their interests align. He doesn't owe them anything. Plus there was an extra scene in Shadow 05, the GUN commander makes amends with Shadow (since they were both victims on the ark) and asks Shadow if he could possibly work for them, promising him that GUN will do better.
Im so glad the new shadow anime is gonna be fixing that
The sad thing about Shadow is that there IS more than him being an edgelord
There's alot of videos out there describing it better than me, but Shadow's story is tragic, he was supposed to be one of those characters that didn't allow himself to be happy because he wanted to grant what he thought was Maria's wish
And then he died, came back with amnesia, and the writers decided to butch what his character was supposed to be by making him a full-on edgelord
Atleast he's a LITTLE better in the comics but goddamn
oh trust me, what they did to him in shadow the hedgehog was a step back on character growth after heroes and made him fully grown as a character in sonic06(even though the game genuinely sucked cuz of rush development). but im afraid after sonic06 his character went downhill and became the sasuke of sonic! edgelord characters can work if they are well written!
To be fair he wasnt really that bad until sonic boom happened. And every depiction since has flanderized his edgy traits and made him more of a narcissistic bully than just an aloof loner.
That's very fair, I was talking mostly about his game and the perception of the character it created.
@@sasaki999pro And that's just sad, cuz All the Sonic Boom depictions of each characters were made to be silly and not be taken seriously. A somewhat decent cartoon unintentionally made most parodied characters the standard of their design since then, or even before that point if we're not just talking about Shadow, Knuckles being the best example of this. He was basically a dumbass during a big part of the 2010s even though he was just gullible back then.
Comic shadow is springy worse snesy.
I played the Black Eagles in my first run and I didn't want to make any of my students a dancer. So I recruited Felix to be my dancer since he was the only one I could recruit in time for the dance contest with my stats at the time lol
If you're doing black Eagles I guess you don't want to pick Flayn who is normally a 'free good dancer' essentially.
Honestly the mental image of Felix joining the super strong professor's class, eager for great training and then being told his first job is dance lessons, is hilarious.
That is EXACTLY how I pictured it, yes.
"Yes, Professor! I am honored that you would choose me to join your forces! My blade is yours to command. Now and always."
"Wonderful! Put this on."
@@macthemeh lmao that reminds me of that meme in which goku tells you to put on a maid outfit
@@pikmonwolf I think Felix and Dimitri are the two most objectively hilarious dancer options bc you have Felix who is...Felix and then first half of post timeskip Dimitri who's out here doing the Macarena before going "my soul is damned. I will see you in the eternal fiery bowels of hell."
@@pikmonwolf To be fair with the fact that getting the dancer class gives you access to the sword avoid+20 skill and the sword dance combat art means learning how to dance is unironically really useful for his sword training.
I really felt it when the first thing you did when talking about the "so edgy it's funny" point was literally showing the ENTIRE Shadow the Hedgehog intro lmao
I know when a game makes my point better than I could lol.
Fun fact: it was horrible mistranslation that ruined Shadow, not his own game.
i never realised Kai Leng was an Edgelord, i pretty much zooned out when he was on screen
I mean, best way to experience the game lol
jesus, your brain unwrinkled itself just to cope with exposure to critical amounts of kai leng.
To save everyone time: No
If they were, we wouldn't have got Metal Gear Rising Revengance (among other games with any edgy characters in them) nor any characters who are so bad with their edgyness they loop back to being funny (which depending on whom you ask, is even better than just having a regular funny character)
Shhhhhhhh, I want everyone to watch the full video
Monsoon is so over the top edgy that he integer overflows into being not edgy
Thanks bro, to much hassle seeing that long ass video
@@godricktheminecrafted3113 honestly Monsoon isn't even really a character, do we know his motivations? His ideals? He's just hatred incarnate, and he's suddenly introduced at a time where Raiden also has to face his past demons, hence why the song's name "The Stains of Time" suggesting the misfortunes of the past and the "soothing rain" that washes them away during the fight with Monsoon.
Bottom line, Monsoon was just a destressor for Raiden and a means to accept his past self. He is one of the most important and memorable characters, without even being much of a character to begin with. He's the screw that keeps the whole building in place.
@@pantommy he’s a survivor of the Cambodian genocide and is extremely nihilist as a result, nothing in life is worth anything unless he can use it for tactical advantage
This is reflected in his design, with his gimmick being the least grounded to humanity compared to all the others
Monsoon’s rôle when confronting raiden is to represent the loss of humanity raiden exhibits every time he goes sicko mode
I take umbrage over the fact you called Monsoon "not a very good character". Monsoon is AMAZING, and almost outshines everyone else in that bananas game. But, context is key.
There's a fun little mechanic in the fight that not only tells you how well you're doing, but also unveils a little bit about Monsoon as a character. If you play poor, he will cointnue to spout one-liners about being a maniac, about his "utopia of death", and other such edgelord stuff, taunting you the whole way, capping it off with "Do your worst" at the end before you chop him into confetti. If you do well, he begins to stutter, question his own point of view on the world and his own philisophical nature, and caps it all off by begging for his life.
I could sit here and write a bloody essay about this memelord, but I'm not gonna bore you with details you can honestly find in his Wiki page or the game itself.
Hey that's fair. I don't generally look to the wiki for ideas, only to confirm what I've already said so that way I'm not just copying their work.
I never knew about that Monsoon tidbit. It's gotta be tough to see since I S-ranked him and still got the normal dialogue.
@@pikmonwolf Considering the footage, it's probably because you spammed his weakness (EMP Granades), which IS there for use and WOULD help net an S-Rank, but that counts as copping out of the fight and playing into his mindset (do whatever it takes to survive).
But, yeah, look up the wiki, listen to some Codec Convos about him, and pay attention to what he says in and out of the fight. There's quite a bit more going on than the surface, bombastic edginess.
Wholeheartedly agree. And it is clear that Monsoon does have a purpose for being so edgy. His backstory (Which isn't too clear, I will admit) tells of a man that has been beaten down to the point of losing purpose in life, deciding that he would rather give up his past life and embrace nature, ie his complaints about society's memes and his talk of predator vs prey.
Edit: This can even be inferred a bit through the lyrics of his theme:
"Wash away the sorrow, all the stains of time.
But there's no memory, it's only dry inside"'
The wiki on it definitely sums it up well metalgear.fandom.com/wiki/The_Stains_of_Time
@@pikmonwolf It has nothing to do with how well you play. It’s RNG
@@littlemoth4956 I'm pretty sure you have to beat the fight fast, and not use EMP Grenades
I'm always saying that being an edgelord is all about keeping a delicate balance. People want to be the dark brooding in the corner loner, or be the crazy smiles while he cleaves you apart with no effort guy, but never with anything to balance it out.
Ignoring the Shadow game and thinking about him in adventure 2 where he was introduced, he's a guy who comes out of nowhere, fights Sonic, leaves on a "draw" twice, and talks about how he's the ultimate life form, with the plan to destroy humanity. But throughout the game he also, saves Rouge when he doesn't have to, acknowledges Sonic as a worthy rival to be respected, and fights to save humanity on Amy Rose's wishes when she reminds him of Maria, going so far as to sacrifice himself in the process. Shadow the hedgehog as he was initially written is an edgelord, balanced out by how Maria affected him.
That first one I mentioned, the brooding loner despite being in a group? That's an old character named Hiei, classic stuff, has black fire, starts as a villain, uses power beyond their actual control for the classic holding your arm with overwhelming power inside it, is straight up a demon, has the highest body count on screen with a nearly 100% kill rate in the tournament arc. He's also secretly protecting his little sister who went on a journey to find him while not telling her who he is, and his initial ploy to use a magic sword to turn all of humanity into zombie slaves was to find her when he stopped being able to find her with his magic eye ability. Edgelord, balanced out by the rest of the main cast and his main goal actually being to protect his cinnamon roll sister.
And the second one, the op guy with the slasher smile? It's just Kenpachi, I probly don't even gotta explain who he is to you. Balanced out by Yachiru being latched onto him all the time, an actual bubbly pink child that most people designing a character while thinking about how cool they thought Kenpachi was would probly have their character kill happily.
I like to call this state of being where you've reached an understanding of balance in your edge with both the other characters and the setting you are in, "Elder Edgelord"
Also lmao Felix has conversations with another character named Ashe who reads their equivalent of internet light novels and fawns over Felix like a Sasuke fanboy
You're very right about balance. In Shadow the Hedgehog they try to use Maria in that same way, but the complete nonsense way the story is told prevents anything more complicated from actually working.
Also some people say Ashe is dull, and I disagree, a big part of that is he has a lot of good supports.
I can’t believe they made sasuke hiei 2
@@pikmonwolf
Yeah. Sonic Adventure 2 did Shadow’s story better than his own game’s story
Based YYH enjoyer
Being fair on Hiei, he was originally meant to be a one-off villain who was popular enough to get added to the main cast, developing more from there.
The Shadow the hedgehog really didn't do Shadow’s character justice unlike sonic games like SA2, heros, and 06 where he actually has great moments and development.
Fair, the game Shadow the Hedgehog from a writing perspective is full on nonsense.
Ya I don't consider his game to be a good representation of him. An there for no shadow the hedgehog
Everyone forgets he had amnesia in that game so he wasn't acting as himself. That being said the game is a mess continuity wise too and the true ending ends with him coming to the exact same conclusion he did in heroes, just with several dozen extra steps, anyway. To leave the past in the past and move forward.
@@Superluigi881 Exactly
@@Superluigi881 He had amnesia in Heroes too and he acted far better than he did in Shadow
I think a huge problem with "edgy" characters is because of games like StH, there's this idea that edgy is meant to be cool and badass and in my opinion that's not what an edgy character should be.
An edgy character shouldn't be someone you want to emulate, characters that are edgy are usually that way because of an event in their lives that led to them adopting those mannerisms, it's not their entire personality, they aren't edgy to be cool, I think of Dante and Vergil from DMC for this. Both characters are edgy in their own ways, Vergil being cold, stoic and obsessed with his own personal strength while Dante is wacky, happy go lucky and doesn't take anything including himself seriously. They're on both sides of the edgy spectrum but they've both got reason for being like that, they're using the edginess as coping mechanisms for traumatic events from their childhood. Same for pretty much the entirety of MGR's main cast, they're all edgy to the point of absurdity but except for maybe Sundowner they're all edgy for reasons stemming from personal trauma
Raiden being a child soldier
Mistral being in the height of the France-Algeria civil war
Monsoon being born in the midst of the Khmer Rouge regime
Sam losing what he felt was his purpose in life at Armstrong's hands.
All these characters are edgy because they're traumatized, deeply troubled individuals that are coping with life in these ways, another one I think of is Goro Majima from Yakuza. His Mad Dog persona is a take no prisoners, do or die, live life on the edge type of person. He's insane and everyone in a room will know that in the first minute of seeing him. But as the games go on you learn more and more that "The Mad Dog" is just a front for who Majima really is. He hides a lot of personal trauma under the guise of being this lunatic that lives in the moment every day.
Edgy was never meant to be cool to me, edgy is meant to be used as a front to hide who the character really is, an extreme way to cope with harsh lives, it's not meant to be something you want to be, but rather something you want to avoid being.
Just wanna say one quick thing about Shadow: Yes, in his own game, Shadow is, in fact, an edge lord. In SA2, Heroes, and 06, Shadow has MUCH better writing, and isn't an edge lord. Post 06, Shadow has been turned into an edge lord.
That's what I've heard, this was less of a full character analysis and more about his perception and how his game shaped it.
He's DEFINITELY an edgelord in Heroes, 06, and and Adventure 2-he's just well written. Post 06-other than rivals and chronicles though he's just cringe (even rivals makes him sort of cringe).
Even in the IDW Sonic comics they ruined his character again by making an edge lord ten times and more of a jerk to Sonic
If you can imagine a character being like food,
Then edginess is kinda like salt
It doesn't fit everything, is disgusting when it's the only thing you eat (not to mention unhealthy), and it is used as seasoning, not a dish, seasoning
Honestly you're not wrong. Does that make most of Earth's surface edgy water?
@@pikmonwolf by that logic yes 😂
@@phobia_master-lord_of_early I'd say chili is a better metaphor because its applicability is more narrow in scope.
@@antonioscendrategattico2302 good point, but I could only think of salt because at the time me had small brain,
NOW........ I still have small brain, but atleast I learned something right?
@@pikmonwolf it the monsters that live in the deep of the ocean? No fucking doubt
In Shadow’s case (the character himself), Shadow was actually written well and is interesting in Sonic Adventure 2 (his debut game), Sonic Heroes, Sonic Battle, and even in Sonic ‘06. Shadow’s actual character lies more in those games than in Shadow ‘05 which is the game that causes the misconception of Shadow just being an edgy tryhard child and nothing more, which couldn’t be more further from the truth and to judge his entire character solely based on Shadow ‘05 is completely misunderstanding his actual character at best and flat out ignorant at worst. You’re taking and looking at one piece of the picture and then judging the entire picture based on that piece alone. That’s not how judging a character with more than one appearances in titles work, dude. That kind of unfair judgement is exactly what causes characters like Shadow to become misunderstood and misinterpreted entirely. Even some of the Sonic products in the 2010’s made this mistake.
Honestly the only reason to call Shadow an edge lord is because it’s the cool and funny thing to do so and nothing more. It isn’t looking at the entire character in all of their appearances in the series itself, it’s only looking at one piece of him then proceeding to judge his entire character as being that one piece. It’s ignorant and rather biased. A bad judgement of character that happens both for fictional characters/game/movie/tv show/franchise/comics/manga/anime etc. and in real life for people and animals.
Shadow The Hedgehog is a good character when you are not solely viewing him through Shadow ‘05 and nothing more. Either some or a good majority of people don’t get that, which causes misconceptions to be spread around and taken as the truth. That’s my one issue with this video and how people view Shadow in general these days, but I guess I can’t entirely hold it against you when you had spent a lot of time beating Shadow ‘05 ten times just to get the true ending, which is a stupid and unnecessary fault of the game itself. There’s always room for corrections for future videos after all. No hard feelings.
(Edit: When I meant by judging a character in more than one appearance of theirs, I should’ve specified it as judging all of their *canonical* appearances in the series, not really their *non-canon* appearances. That would make more sense. Another thing is I’m liking the conversation in the replies here, I’m welcome to people sharing their views on Shadow’s portrayals and how well their written with me.)
I don't mean to burst your bubble but Shadow was an edge lord back in his debut game as well. In Sonic Adventure 2, he's barely a character, the whole reason he seeks revenge is because he misinterpreted Maria's wish. It does that annoying thing where the flashback cuts off before the important part. If he really knew Maria as well as he did, why would he jump to revenge as her wish? And before someone says that it was because he was only a week old before the raid, you would have to read the wiki on Shadow to know this, it isn't explained in the game. Third party information is not allowed as an excuse for poor writing, a movie/game/tv show should stand on it's own without you having to turn it off to read a book or wiki entry to understand what is going on in the story. The scene where he goes to save Rouge could have been good if it weren't framed as though Maria told him to save her. This doesn't change him much by the way, he's still excited to watch Eggman use the Eclipse Cannon. Then we get to his redemption ark, all that basically happened is that Amy said something similar to what Maria says which triggers the rest of Shadow's memory of her dying wish which feels very contrived. While we are on that note, why is Amy so invested in Shadow's redemption? The reason she helped reform Gamma was because he let her out and helped her escape. All she knows about Shadow is that he framed her boyfriend and enabled her worst enemy to have more power than he's had in years. It is to Maria that the credit for Shadow's redemption goes to, not Amy, as if one conversation with her is enough to change Shadow's hard set perspective on humanity. The only reason that the rest of the flashback doesn't play when we first see it is because if did, then Shadow wouldn't go through with Gerald's plan and the story would be over. I know people say that Gerald reprogramed Shadow to make him more willing to go through with this plan because he says that he designed Shadow's mind to be perfect and pure. But they misinterpreted the context of that scene, Gerald is referring to when he first created Shadow, not something he did after he escaped G.U.N. All Shadow has as motivation is Maria's death which is very weak, he should know that by virtue of Maria and Gerald existing that, not all humans are evil. This is why his decision to go along with Gerald's plan is going to extremes.
Sonic Heroes did Shadow a little better because he is not focused on revenge and he wants to regain his memory. There is the scene where he helps Rouge attack Team Sonic, with ego being the limp justification for the fight, but pretty much all the rival battles in Heroes are poorly written. This is because they had already put them in the story mode before they even figured out what the story was.
The Shadow game is already spoken for but the cliffhanger at the end of Team Dark's story is almost completely dropped. It is limited to two non-cannon endings and concluded on the side with some dialogue from Eggman that might play if you let the final boss fight drag on for 8 minutes. The fact that none of the 10 endings could connect to the final story segment eliminates any sense of character progression, so Shadow just randomly decides to put his past behind him without it being something he learned.
That is why in 06, he almost feels like a completely different character. I will admit that he is a better character than what came before but the way he got here makes no sense. You are correct that Shadow is actually better written than he was in the last game but that isn't saying much. His character in 06 amounts to "I want to make a team to stop Mephiles, being heroes is good" which is no different than the Snyderverse Batman in Justice League. As a matter of fact, Shadow has a lot in common with that Batman who also changed his perspective because of a ridiculously contrived piece of information involving a dead girl whose name begins with M.
@@georgesummitt1980 I’m not going to pretend that the Sonic Franchise has the best writing in terms of story and characters especially when compared to other media. At the very least, I can claim that the Project Shadow Lore is one of the more well-written stories *specifically* in the Sonic Franchise. Even if Shadow’s story arc isn’t perfect, it still managed to interest fans a ton and Shadow still managed to be loved by fans to a breakout character level (I don’t intend to use the popularity of something to excuse the overall quality of that thing). Even if he isn’t the best written character, he still means a lot to myself and many other fans throughout the years regardless.
@@Probably_JENOVA I do agree that the writing, post 2010 for Sonic in general is even worse than the games from 1998 to 2009. I just wish that people consider the realty of the story's quality. I also think that 2010 to present Shadow is worse than past Shadow because instead of improving on his existing backstory, SEGA doubled down on the criticism of Shadow and made him a one dimensional bully with no redeeming qualities. For all the criticism I just flung at Shadow, I would never call him one dimensional like 2010 Shadow.
The Sonic Franchise has a huge flanderization problem. Almost every character's gotten it at some point even Sonic himself. Especially in the newer games. Then again I guess that's what happens when you hire writers who knew nothing about the games before starting and just read a Wikipedia article.
@@Superluigi881 Exactly.
I kinda wish Shadow's portrayal in Sonic Adventure 2 was brought up in the video. It doesn't fit the point super well to be honest, but it does also very clearly displays how to write a good and likeable edgelord.
I never played it, personally. Heard it's solid but didn't age great.
@@pikmonwolf Why would you make a video essay about edgy characters and go on tangents on "Shadow the Hedgehog-esque" characters if you only have a surface level understanding of his motives and personality?
@@pikmonwolf Why are you making an entire video dissecting Shadow the Hedgehog and the very concept of his character when you don't even know who Shadow the Hedgehog actually is beyond the one single piece of the franchise that potrayed his character in the worst way possible?
You're judging Shadow based on Shadow's game, which is the worst depiction of his character and not even his introduction. Shadow was introduced in Sonic Adventure 2, where he was written completely differently. If you don't know who Shadow actually is, don't make a video making fun of and laughing at him.
Playing "Shadow the Hedgehog (2005)" 10 times to get the true ending is not, at all, going to inform you on Shadow the Hedgehog as an actual character in the way he was originally designed, portrayed and intended to be. There's far more to Shadow than "middle school kid going through an emo phase".
Because I'm explicitly talking about his game and his game alone which is what fuels the perception of his character. And since that's what I was discussing I made sure to do my due diligence and get the true ending on my own (which was a big pain) just so that way I get a proper look at his character in it in the intended way it's supposed to be presented.
I probably should've used less general language tbh, but you can't deny this game forever shaped how people view the character and that's a big thing I'm talking about.
@@pikmonwolf You spent the good half of 4 minutes explaining the intricacy of a character from the Dragon Age game that people make fun of the most for being objectively lesser then the others in its saga. Despite that you clearly have some love for the character and the game, you aren't talking about it in negative connotations, you've spent a good amount of time reflecting on the character and did your homework on who they are as a character. Your "generalist" point of view regarding Shadow doesn't seem to be holding up super well when half of the comments are saying "Yeah STH was a bad game, but I really loved him in SA2". Normies aren't going to watch this video and don't even directly interact with most mediums outside of Marvel consumption to fit in. The topic isn't for them.
Doing anything less then understanding your topic makes for an annoying experience, you have a very clearly skewed vision of these characters and should have looked into it better if you were going to sit down and make something like this. I would argue the only difference between Fenris and Shadow is when he reaches the finale of his arc, he doesn't have a grazing period where he gets to make Jennifer Hepler esque banter between his friends, cause he dies doing the right thing (SA2). Shadow never wanted to be who he is, he watched the military gun down a child and it warped him forever. Next time I would advise you not to make an essay video half-measured.
Ayyy the video came out! And Monsoon got included! Thanks for using my suggestion
Another interesting note about him: in the dlc and side logs, Monsoon is revealed to be a survivor of the Cambodian Genocide, and is far more nihilistic in his views than his base-game cutscenes let on. The game manages to give his edginess meaning without making it come off as cringe or pitiful
Indeed, great suggestion that ended up getting me to replay MGR.
I ended up not doing the 'idea contribution' thing in the corner just because I talked about him for awhile and kinda merged it with Raiden. So I had no idea when to have it and for how long without being disruptive, etc...
I can add a little note to the description if you like.
@@pikmonwolf that would be lovely, cheers :D
I salute you for playing Shadow the Hedgehog 10 times just for a 20 minute video, you’re a trooper🫡
To expand on your point, I think the idea of an edgy character wanting happiness bleeds into the rule of major characters needing a flaw. The flaw for these characters is simply that they are unhappy, and they have to deal with that in whatever way the story presents. I don’t see edginess itself as a flaw because it typically only affects the character in a minor way negatively, like people liking them less. Shadow, Kai Lang, and Edgelord McGee from Hatred are all unlikable, but don’t have any major flaws in the story and are just emotionless one-man armies.
Characters need a flaw that ties directly to their personality, or else they end up having about as much depth as a kiddie pool. Edginess without flaws or a desire to change only works if you specifically don’t want a character to get any emotional investment from the player (Monsoon, Doomguy, etc.).
Well said, I feel like writers who think edgy=cool are also more likely to think a lack of flaws makes a character cooler as well.
Honestly I'd argue that Monsoon isn't a great character and it's just his character design that's cool. Other than that, he's just an average nihilist.
@@pikmonwolf The funny part about this is that fans of Shadow are super fucking pissed off how the series kind of takes the piss out of him being an edgelord nowadays as opposed to playing him completely straight like before.
@@sonic5993 the comics exist tho why are they complaining
Shadow is only a bad character when you are solely viewing through Shadow ‘05 alone. If you want a good form of Shadow, then look at Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic Battle, and even Sonic ‘06 for his campaign alone where he is a developed character that puts the past behind him and determines his own fate for himself.
You’re only viewing one piece of the picture and then proceeding to judge it as being the entire picture instead of looking at all of the other pieces of the picture. That’s part of the problem with misconceptions and a bad judgement of character.
Ah, good ol' Kai Leng. He's so much better when he's vewwy, vewwy, quiet.
kai leng is basically an offbrand raiden
@@bruhgod123 more like if you ordered jetstream sam from wish.
Hah, guess it's a shame I finally got the hang of audio balancing.
@@pikmonwolf I was talking about the mod, but yeah. Now that I know audio balancing I could make him tolerable all on my own! At least in the videos. 😂
That mod saved my last playthrough. I am never playing without it again. Who knew the best way to fix ME3 was just to shut Kai Leng up?
The only thing i like about Kai leng is pretty much the laughing stock he became in the mass effect community
God if i love those "Good. You opened this message." Memes
Those memes are indeed hilarious.
For me the best edgelord is Vergil from Devil May Cry. Well written, tragic, badass, over the top and unwittingly funny at some moments.
The whole of Devil May Cry bleeds edginess in different forms, but does it in such an endearing way.
Watching Varric's charm wear down cynical, disaffected characters is truly one of the delights of the DA series. His interactions with Fenris are amazing, his philosophical debates with Solas are beautiful, and his arguments with Cassandra are...just...perfection. He has less success with man-boy edge lord Carver, but Carver is still a great character, also written to be ridiculous, slightly annoying, and to have a character arc that bends toward happiness.
Varric is a character who only works because his writing is so clean. He's genuinely charming enough that it's believable he gets through to all these people.
To be honest, when I hear someone use the term "edgelord" these days, all it means is "character I don't like." It's lost all meaning from overuse.
Since FE Thre Houses was mentioned I'd like to put in Dimitri as an edgy character done right imo. He's dark and mysterious early on, goes wacky mid game, and redeems himself during the end
I really do love Dimitri's arc but it has a couple blunders. IMO the entire gronder field chapter is a dumpster fire mess of good ideas executed awfully. Which is a shame since it's home to his most iconic line.
That Shadow the Hedgehog opening is Still Fire though
It's so cheesy but I would watch it basically every time I booted the game, which puts it on par with Persona game intros lmao.
I think it's VERY fair to say that below Shadow's thick red and black blanket of edginess, there is a lot of depth and a huge character arc, even in his own game to be found, i'd argue it's not very far away from what happens to Fenris.
alot of people have said this i think, but shadow is DEFINETLY not an edgelord.
it's just the later games that make him bad and edgy, in sa2 and heroes and 06, he's just introverted and isnt good at expressing emotions
thats all.
@@esukgfjyijlgul5335 well the definition goes like this "a person who affects a provocative or extreme persona, especially online (typically used of a man)."
@@esukgfjyijlgul5335 "edgelords act like contrarians in the hope that everyone will admire them as rebels"
@@esukgfjyijlgul5335 he is like that in shadow the hedgehog but not when his character was made in the earlier games
(Don't mind him he's just baiting you)
@@esukgfjyijlgul5335 Shut up
That Kai Leng thing was fucking perfect. Busted out laughing.
I almost cut that because I was worried it just looked like an editing mistake, glad it lands lol.
@@pikmonwolf It was glorious.
I hate Gary Stu edgelords
What makes a good "Edgelord" is if a character has earned such a title.
whether its a Characters Past, Like Genuine Mental Trauma.
Their Façade, or the way they show their "edgy-ness"
But most important of all, if they can deviate from their character if they experience something new, like an offer from someone else to help or discovering something they thought they would never see. If their snide contempt is explainable and reasonable.
shadow the hedgehog in SA2 was actually much better written back then.
cause the point was a story of someone learning to trust and bond with peoples, and chosing his own path instead of why he would be created.
shadow the edgelord game is a huge dunk on the character. and onward except a few scenes of shadow being more his SA2 self.
Because you control Shadow? It makes sense why some paths would be edgy and others are not.
@@urdeadnotbigsuprise7439 well, I remember being a true ending when he sacrifice himself no? (it's being a while since i've watch a playthrought of it)
when he go super shadow, and embrace his own path, and trying to do the right thing ect.
he was edgy, but he was a good version because he still had some grow, and in the end, the desire to do things in his own term, that being helping those he care about, being a hero ect.
@@croissant2434 think of it like Undertale.
Come to think of it, the Shadow the Hedgehog game wrote copied the homework.
Shadow is on a quest to find out his past, who he is, and is supposed to be. Believes gathering the chaos emeralds will reveal that to him, and you get to choose for him, ranging from hero to villain.
But in the final chapter, when he has all the emeralds and is confronted with all the puzzles pieces, he chooses his own path, comes to terms with his past and starts to focus on the future instead. You can choose his journeys, but not his conclusion.
Edgy.
@@apieceoftoast768 that totally it!
Yeah as a Shadow fan I try to forget Shadow the Hedgehog lol, honestly Adventure 2,Heroes,and 06 had some really good writing for Shadow, Adventure 2 introduced him in way where he starts with wanting revenge and seeks to destroy the world, only for Amy to make him remember what Maria wanted. Heroes had him have amnesia, but at the end of his story he throws it all away and comes to the conclusion it doesn't matter who he is. And 06 had him come to terms with the fact that someday humanity will betray him but he refuses give up on them and closes to fight like he always has. I like to refer to Shadow in 2 different ways, Adventure Shadow which includes Heroes and 06 Shadow, and Colors Shadow (which would include him in Shadow the Hedgehog) were hes a 1 note edgy asshole
It's not Shadow the Hedgehog the game that you should forget, it's the horrible Mistranslations in that game that you should forget. And replay the entire game with the OG Japanese.
I don't think edgelord's are bad. I never understood how people started the trend of "edgelord = bad" despite the fact that some are actually well written. But regardless what people also need to understand is Shadow *_IS NOT_* an edgelord NOR is he an edgy character. At least that's not what the REAL Shadow is. Current Shadow in Sonic's trash tier writing? Maybe. But as he was in his prime in Adventure 2 through 06 (minus Shadow's game in the era)? No. He didn't even check the first tick on an edgelord checklist (that being the most important) monologuing about his dark tragic past and talking about how no one understood him. You only got glimpses of his past and promised Maria revenge. That was it. He never actually cursed outside of Shadow, anyone ever noticed that? In Shadow's game he was as generically edgy as you could get. But that whole gun wielding, swearing, all that garbage acquitted to edgy characters were never present with him. Wearing black, folding your arms, saying "hmph" and wanting to be a loner of the group doesn't mean you're edgy. You're just anti-social with your own mental walls.
I'm sick of people classifying Shadow as an Edgelord and it's time to stop. Put Shadow the Hedgehog's Shadow in the edgelord category if you wish, hell put Modern Shadow/BOOM Shadow into the edgelord category. But don't, don't, *_DON'T_* put Adventure 2, Sonic 06, OR Sonic Heroes Shadow into that category. He doesn't fit, he doesn't belong there, you're wrong so knock that shit off.
it's because edgelords tend to be mad corny
"He never actually cursed outside of Shadow, anyone ever noticed that?"
Everyone noticed that.
It's kind of that game's thing, and it kind of wouldn't be if the others did it too.
Talking about shadow as if he's nothing more than a character to be laughed at actually hurt me. I really empathize with the character due to the other titles, and i don't find the overt edginess of his title game to even be funny. I think it's completely normal for cartoon characters to have guns and swear, and i honestly don't understand why other people find it funny while I myself don't.
I get that it's how both the edginess of everything contrasts with the inherently light hearted nature of cartoon characters, but i just... Don't feel that it's funny, and i am able to take it completely seriously.
Is there something wrong with me? I am genuinely asking, why am I not laughing at Shadow the hedgehog even though I should be laughing at him considering that everyone else does?
In fact, i feel rather offended by the thought of people laughing at it, because i myself don't understand why I am not finding it funny. Why am I not laughing at the “damn chaos emeralds” meme? I just watch the cutscene and don't feel a thing, i take it seriously because i don't see a cartoon character saying “damn” as bad, but the mere fact that people make fun of it makes me wonder if I have a mental problem or something.
It seems you just easily connect to the game's world, really. You see past the artstyle and just immerse yourself, there's not really anything wrong with you. I myself am in the middle, or rather, I can pick whichever "mood" to take media with. I can immerse myself completely, or I can look from a more relaxed POV and laugh.
I should've clarified that I was mainly talking about Shadow in his game and the public perception of him. The writing of his game is pretty much nonsense when I've seen plenty of people discussing much better writing in the other games.
And even if I wasn't, you're never wrong for liking a character who you resonate with. Writing quality is about general rules and what tells a good story, but every person is an individual and is allowed to enjoy what speaks to them.
It’s not that cartoo characters can’t have guns. It’s just the the complete change up from the norm in the sonic series. Shadows near light speed powerful near god like being. Why the hell does he need guns. He never needed it before. It was just a clear thing to make him seem more cool and give him a gun. The motorcycle too. Why does he need it 😂
Cool video, but the thing with Shadow, real fans don't like his portrayal in the 2005 game, moderm fans that like that "self-aware" thing modern Sonic does genuienly enjoy Shadow in an ironic way (Boom and the IDW Comics) which breaks my heart because i was a 2000's kid, me and everyone i knew loved Shadow because he was a tragic hero, his arc started with him as the villain but it was a Revenge story turned into one of forgiveness and redention
Sonic Adventure 2 it's one of my favorite stories
Shadow in Heroes was the man on the mission but also THE cool guy
In 06 he was the straight man that got the job done and even when the freacking devil told him the world will betray him he sticks to his promise he made to Maria that he will protect life on the planet, since Shadow was created for the purpose of serving he's on his own way searching hapiness by keeping his promise
On Black Knight and Forces he's just cool and straight to the point
And in Battle the gigachad even says "No one deserves to suffer my pain"
I love this character but it's a shame that the first thing people will ever known about Shadow is his own game and that parody of his in Sonic Boom
I’ve always loved edgelords when done properly. Like you said monsoon in mg rising. I think a good version of edgy shadow is in sonic boom where he’s made so for comedy unlike shadow the hedgehog where it was trying to be cool. I’m not sure if she counts but I feel like raven is a good example of and edgelord.
Honestly after playing Shadow The Hedgehog, it's hard to see any direction they could've taken besides making him a parody. The games just that much of a mess lol
@@pikmonwolf Another key feature I've noticed of a bad edgelord vs a good edgelord is their complete lack of empathy for others who would be in a similar situation. People who've actually been through trauma will absolutely have trust issues and seclude themselves, and will absolutely show only disdain or hate for people who remind them of those who wronged them, but should refuse to let others go through what they did. The difference between a good edgelord and a bad edgelord to me is whether they help people who are also in a bad situation or whether they kick people while they're down to "prove they're the most powerful".
@@hakasek4052 It's a crime this has so few likes. This is such a good and accurate point.
I strongly disagree. Depicting an edgy character as a parody trying to be cool is just as overplayed and basic as a character being given too much edge. Since its trying and failing to be meta by referring to the edgy traits that we as audience members hate. In my opinion I think the best way to create a good edgy character is to simply balance out their edgy character traits with non edgy character traits. Don't have their core character be defined by only one singular thing (or be mostly defined by one thing)
I don't really fault Boom (the show anyway, haven't played the games) for making him the over the top edgelord character. Pretty much all of them have parts of their character exaggerated for the sake of comedy, so it fits. It only bothers me in stories that are meant to be taken more seriously.
In Shadow’s case it was never about being an edgelord until his self-titled spinoff game, which wasn’t even written by the same person who wrote his story arcs in Adventure 2, Heroes, and 06. Those games portrayed him as a character who went from being misunderstood and lost to becoming a hero who would do anything to save the world and keep his promise even if it meant dying. And that’s because his character arc was always meant to be a redemption arc where he could grow as a person at the end of his story and in future games. Instead they took the one game where his personality sucked (the Shadow spin-off game) and ran with that edgelord persona for every game he appeared in during the 2010’s. Hopefully they can fix his character in future games because nobody likes shadow when he’s written as someone who doesn’t have friends and hates everything. That’s not how shadow was ever supposed to be and it’s embarrassing for sega to do that to him
Post 2010 Sega: Shadow doesn't have friends and hates everything.
Me: (Laughs in Rouge and Omega).
Seriously though, this has been a problem for a lot of post 2010 Sonic characters. It took the second Sonic movie for Knuckles to through off the weird "dumb braggart jock who exists to be humiliated" persona he picked up during this period and become something closer to the wise warrior-monk he was originally. Hopefully the movies can also fix Shadow as well.
@@metaltornado3457 Yeah, here's hoping Sonic 3 can finally re-rail his character.
Guys, Japanese! That is always the dub to go by when playing every Sonic game (except Frontiers). Shadow 05 had the worst translation errors in any of the games.
Fenris legit sounds like a character I'd make. Nice to know I'm on the right track with my own "edgy" characters.
My favorite edge lord is guts from berserk. He was fueled by hate and revenge, and for good reason; but throughout the story he is redeemed, going from a threat to anyone in his path to a hero that wants to help people
Monsoon is actually less edgy than Raiden in their encounter, I think that kind of robs him of the "edgelord" monikor
*"i think it's time for jack to let her rip" intensifies*
Good presentation graphics, good points and good audio quality.
Thank fuck the audio quality is good, it has taken me a long time to master that lmao
I like Hubert a lot, so I'm biased but while Felix is the best Edgeboy of 3h I honestly thought Hubert's works well too. In part perhaps, because the cast is large enough that it's interesting to see similar character traits handled in different manners.
Hubert's edge is characterized as Edelgard needs a path from A to B and he cuts the cleanest line, regardless of what that costs, he's a good example of 'ruthless' to me, it's not cruelty for its own sake, merely for practicalities sake.
Also, he's my favorite example of how the game writes different characters and their dialog with an in-house Byleth verses out, he changes very little, but clearly keeps things closer to his chest. and is every so slightly more helpful and accommodating to BL Byleth.
the ludo narrative dissonance of him being so willing to flee is annoying, especially because it could have easily been lessened by him just being deployed less, or having Edelgard give some line about him prioritizing his life, like they give Claude with Hilda or something.
but great video!
I think it's fair enough to like Hubert, that's why I didn't really dive into him too much. To me one of the biggest things that annoys me is how in his support with Dorothea he's like "You fucking idiot, you absolute cretin, you sniveling piece of filth, no I don't love Edelgard, people can care about people for other reasons you ingrate." (paraphrasing slightly)
Then in his A support with Edelgard he's like "Hey I'm actually in love with you, big shock right?" and his hypocrisy/rudeness is just not acknowledged.
I feel like as a whole he's just very hypocritical and his motivation of "be a jerk while helping Edelgard" never changed form start to end.
@@pikmonwolf he does change a lot less than other characters, and I can see that as a fault.
and yeah his A support with Edelgard is probably the worst support in the whole game imo.
Especially compared to his parallel character Dedue, who is allowed to be undyingly to the definition of fault, to Dimitri, for complex and nuanced, entirely platonic, reasons, but like apparently a dude can't be loyal to a girl unless he's in love her. and they don't even respect, the potential for nuance interpretation by only making it romantic in the epilogue cards like so many others do. bleck
@@bunk-o2495 Yeah I think Dedue is a great comparison for an undying loyal retainer. He's done just so much better with a much more complex relationship between him and Dimitri. And both of them only get half the screen time of Hilda in Part 2 lol.
In my opinion the best kinds of edgy characters are not just ones who want to be happy but also ones who relish in their edginess and make fun villains. You already mentioned Monsoon, but my pick is Terumi from Blazblue. The main character in these games is edgy too but he's surrounded by a world of people that call him out on it, the villain on the other hand that being Terumi is terrifying in his edge. He's responsible for all the bad things that happen in half the casts life, and he has a LOT of fun doing what he does. Yeah he also has a tragic backstory but that doesn't erase everything that he's done. if Kai Leng's problem if that he's edgy with nothing to show for it, then where Terumi excellence is he's not just edgy but he's got a lot to show for it.
A good confirmation of this was the perception of Infinite before Sonic Forces was relased and after. When all we knew was his design and his theme song, the character was fun, and was poking fun in a way that was reveling in its own edge. So he was fun, and even looped back to being cool because it was having fun with it. And lets be real, being edgy is a cheap, fun power fantasy. After the game, it was revealed he was a paper-thin character with none of the confidence of the song, nor was he enjoying his own power fantasy. So, we don't either, and as such, he's just a nothing character you can't even hate because that suggests he can produce a strong emotion.
I agree that when an edgy character has fun it can easily capture that classiv Disney billain charm
I guess he can produce a strong emotion loz M considering plenty of people do hate him.
Monsoon might not have much screentime, but when he appears then he appears with a bang.
Ive never seen monsoon as edgy, just obsessed with memes
I think the problem with a lot of ‘edgy’ characters is poor writing.
Give me an example
@@kidprime6863 There was Superboy Prime and his whole “I’ll kill you to death” bit.
@@knightofarkronia9968 Any more?
@@kidprime6863 In My Hero Academia, the mangaka initially made Bakugo come off as too toxic, which he would later regret. Don’t get me wrong, the writing for him has improved since then, but bullying someone to the point of telling them to commit suicide is less “brooding anti-hero” and more “repressed psychopath.”
@@knightofarkronia9968 More
Edgy characters will always have a place in my heart. They always make any story more fun when used correctly.
Characters like Dark Pit, Shiki Nanaya and Terumi never fail to spice things up whenever they are on screen.
The bad boy/girl of your friend group that takes time for him/her to open up to you but is very supportive regardless! (Kuudere maybe?)
idk why but i always enjoyed edgy charaters as long as they arent way overboard
I enjoy this video, but I feel it speaks of what makes a good character too authoritatively. A character who doesn't want to be happy can still be compelling and interesting, in my opinion.
It can be done but the author needs to understand that that mindset is effectively alien and must be handled accordingly.
Do you have any examples bark, or are you just being hypothetical.
@@fightingmedialounge519 pretty much hypothetical
Honestly I personally don’t even see Shadow as an edgelord. I feel like that’s just what SEGA wants him to be nowadays
The Hubert bit was unexpected as hell and hit me like a truck. Good job!
I'd ask for an episode, but that would only be 2 minutes long, with how little about him there is worth talking about
:v
I think they actually kinda developed Monsoon in the DLCs
I never got around to playing the Blade Wolf DLC which I don't think he's in??? But I did like his presence in the Jetstream Sam DLC.
Nature is neither beautiful or ugly, it simply exists
Shadow actually really wasn't that edgy in SA2 and Heroes, he's just "an older Sonic if he lost his best friend" type of character. We see him get along with team Dark really well and he's the first and I think only character in Sonic's animal cast that we actually see crying in any game (during his final conversation with Amy).
It all started in his own spinoff game and 06 was left to pick up the pieces and salvage what Shadow The Hedgehog broke. Unfortunately since 06 was shit people mostly didn't care and the edgelord identity stuck.
No, it was the horrible Mistranslations of his spin off game, not the game itself. th-cam.com/video/XMJgieQUkOs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VO6LCVXq1ZuvKCKB
Edgy characters are almost always the best in whatever story they’re a part of. I don’t feel sorry for believing that lol.
*Applause* Wonderful video! Glad to see Shadow remains the Edgelord King!
So I wanna say I mostly agree with what u've said here but I feel u REALLY limit what can constitute as a "good" edgelord since like wit anythin it's down to opinion & u never truly know what will resonate with the most amount of ppl possible but I don't disagree wit the ones u brought up, but I ain't a writer so I wouldn't know those other ones or put them to words despite me feelin they do exist.
I know this ain't relevant to the main topic of the vid BUT on another note as a SONIC fan I wanna add that the English dub/ver./localization of Shadow the Hedgehog 2005 is an INCREDIBLY BUTCHERED version of the original Japanese Script of the game makin it MASSIVELY misrepresentative of the story and Shadow as a character. The game actually has a really good story with MUCH less swearing & makes 100x more sense instead of bein the OVERLY-EDGY/CONFUSIN swear fest of a game the western localization made the game out to be. idk who thought it was a good idea to do that but here we are with the game cus of it(tho when it comes to to translatin japanese things like scripts to english the 90s-2000s were def a rough time & from the first game the Sonic franchise was no diff lol). So blame the localization team not the writer(s). Shadows actual character in both this and SA2 def falls more within the "edgy cus of a dark past but wants to be happy" section of your vid. Shadow since he was made in sonics image both in game lore & in outside concept is def "edgy" but not in the way u described him here. Jus wanted to get rid of the misconception sry for the long paragraph/rant
monsoon's appearance maybe be short, but his legacy is well known by many, the philosophy and MEMES!!! xD
for me the most important part of an edgelord or an edgy peice of media is that it knows its edgy and doesnt care. MGR is an edgy game and it knows it, but it really doest care what you think of it, it revels in that edgy atmosphere and honestly I cant fault it for that, because its just fun.
Self-awarenes edginess is better yeah.
@@ikagura not so much self awarness. "self aware" Edge can come off as self mocking and therefore Boring, like yeah, we get it, hes edgy, what else you got. What I am talking is *post* self aware edgy, where the writters know its edgy but are not being tongue in cheak with it. its sincerity I think.
I have the perfect way to test if a character is edgy or not. If you can play metal/grunge on while looking at the character talk, move, fight without it being akward it's an edgy character.
Yeah edge lords arent always bad they are often my favorite characters wen done right vergil for exemple is my favorite video game character ever along with dante and jin kazama
Fenris is legit my favorite character from DA2 and I am so happy you brought him up. He is such a marvelous well developed character. :,3
Edgelords never really attracted me in writing, I always thought they were funny at best, but this reminds us that their tropes can still be useful
Exactly. I definitely understand why plenty of people dislike the archetype.
Monsoon goes even deeper than that scene too! If you pay attention and find out his backstory, you find out he's a scared hypocrite hiding behind a shell of nihilism because he's been wrecked by war. But yeah, i love this video, i love edgy characters even edgelords, they do certainly have a bad rap but.... "that's because i'm misunderstood."
Me personally edgelords are ok if done right. Also Shadow was never originally supposed to be an edgelord, it's mainly due to the writers falling for misconceptions about the character that he became an edgelord which is why people don't like it.
it’s a slap in the face to shadow the hedgehog fans when people say he’s an edge lord, he’s one of the most misunderstood characters ever because he wasn’t supposed to be edgy when he was first introduced in sonic adventure 2
Awesome video about time
But i do day you forgot to mention how shadow was done right in Sonic 06
I'd have to play Sonic 06 to say that for sure and I think I suffered enough making this video lol
@@pikmonwolf Trust me shadows story in 06 is peak shadow arc and in the end even becomes less edgy and isnt the over bearing prick from his title game
There actually is a point. its worth it. Tbh aside from a few lore contradictions 06 story overall is pretty fair and alright its just minor issues that everyone value as the bigger issues that give the game a bad rep
Also the fact that the game is buggy and cracked as hell
@@inyalgaico1563 eh
This is actually a good analysis video. Very true, edgy characters almost find one's humanity to be some they want/desire but fear if it would make them weak.
how to make good edgy character:
1. make edgy
2. make them go on a rant about memes
Monsoon said in a philosophy sense, not in internet memely way though
@@t.k7five084 how do you know?
@@fortymcmeme3846 Cuase its mental gear. Memes in those games have always had different meaning to them. Since their introduction earlier on in the series. Just look it up
This channel deserves way more than just 4.42k subscribers
Good news, it's at 4.44k now :P
@@pikmonwolf :D
No one cares about not important because he’s . . . Not important
5:56 My 1st thought was Vergil, from DMC.
But I forgot, he isn't a twink.
Kinda annoying you only talked about Shadow’s game to represent him instead of Sonic Adventure 2, Heroes, and Sonic 06. Even Sonic fans hate how terrible the destroyed Shadow’s character in that game. That game does not represent Shadow at all
Yo, for real. When I was 11, Shadow was my favorite. Perfect target market
monsoon isn't edgy.
he's just spent five minutes on the internet.
I've watched monsoon and raiden section about four times,cause I keep just vibing to the music instead of hearing your words.
Monsoon is the embodiment of the memes.
How about full of shit, is that a meme?
@@pikmonwolf Yes.
nice to see you again man, good vid
Haha thanks man, give it a shot! But it's definitely more work than it looks 😅
@@pikmonwolf yeah, i'm aware of that haha, but i'll get by
might show you something when it's done if you want, although it's of course not my primary focus rn
Good video, but I still don't understand how people play MGR and still say "Rayden"
I've got a little bit of a Maine accent so if I say it properly it can come out more like "rahden." "Rayden" flows more easily for me.
@@pikmonwolf I might have preferred that anyway but it's just a nitpick, not too important.
@@majickman Fair enough lol. To rub salt in the wound, I pronounce the G in Gif like in Giraffe.
This was a great video. Very well-written and exemplary of how to critique a story. Be proud of yourself.
Shadow the Hedgehog (the game) is the absolute worst example and a terrible characterization of who Shadow is as a character. The writer for Shadow was a different person from the writer of SA2, Heroes, and 06, and fundamentally misunderstood the character. Shadow is not meant to be an emotionless edge lord jackass who swears all the time and just does whatever he wants for shits and giggles, and I don't know why you didn't bring up his other far better games when you talked about his character.
As a wise man once said, “Monsoon knows he’s 3 edges away from a sonic oc, and you know what? I fing dig it.”
Shadow the Hedgehog is the definition of "It's so cringe that it loops around and becomes based again"
It's the English dub of the game that's so cringe, not the game itself.
th-cam.com/video/XMJgieQUkOs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=VO6LCVXq1ZuvKCKB
A video game esayist with a backlog of videos? Hype! It's going to be a fun weekend
Shadow the Hedgehog is not canon, and you cannot change my mind on this. Skip straight to 06 for an proper story arc.
It's your opinion
The fact is... Sonic never followed "Canon Rules of Gaming"
So every game is, in a way, considerable
This one specifically, considering it's the ONLY to follow past games's stories
@@JeeJ0LeeL It's bad. It's full of weird plot threads. Jumping from SA2 to 06 is the way Shadow's story should go
@@alexziggy1508 what about Heroes, where Shadow is alive, tries to remember who he is, and ultimately accepting his new self?
Look, I agree that this game's story is bad
But I can't just look away at how it added to SA2
Black Doom (a really powerful ancient alien being) giving his blood to Prof. Gerald to create the ultimate life form
AFTER the failure of the Biolizard in SA2
It's just well connected (About Gerald's failure and something beyond human capacity, I mean)
But then we have G.U.N Commander
He's just bad/horrible
@@JeeJ0LeeL Heroes is fine? Heroes can lead into 06 without the need of StH. Hell, you can have Battle fit in the middle for the same effect
@@alexziggy1508 I mentioned Heroes because you said "SA2 to 06" like you skipped Shadow AND Heroes
I've watch 4 or 5 of your videos now and I gotta say you're putting out some good stuff. Subbed. Eager to see what you put out next.
No of course not necessarily. Whether you are a edgelord does not matter at all. It just matters if your being honest and true about who you are to the best of your ability. A trait that humans struggle with unfortunately because being part of a large group often kills any free thought an individual has. One day hopefully we will let everyone be who they really are(unless they violate the law through violence or stealing). But also able to stand together when we must. The best of both worlds.
1:10 that cut off tho
Shadow the Hedgehog may not be the perfect edgy character but he’s a fun edgy character. Like in previous games, Shadow isn’t really “mood and Darkness” like most edgy character are, (except for that game you just shown) he’s just puts up a tough guy act. Plus he has been shown to get along with many Sonic characters, most notably Omega and Rouge. I guess you can say he’s a furry version of Vegata (Dragon Ball Z).
I think that bit about good edgy characters needing to want to be happy but not letting themselves be happy is exactly why Vergil from Devil May Cry works so well.
He's a half demon, half human who tries as hard as he can to supress his humanity because he views it as nothing but a vulnerability. But we see throughout the 3rd and 5th game that he can't do this, no matter how hard he tries or how much he tells himself that he doesn't have any humanity left. He's still attached to his half of his mother's amulet in DMC3, the only memento left from his human mother, and we see at the end of the game Vergil drops the amulet along with his demonic father's sword, and he chooses to reach out for the amulet first. It shows us that Vergil isn't willing to give up the happy memories of his childhood for the sake of power, no matter how he presents himself. There's also the fact that Vergil very much has a personality outside of his pursuit for power. We see in his interactions with his brother Dante that he still plays into his brother's cocky personality, replying with his own cocky remarks. And of course when he temporarily works with Dante to take out the secondary antagonist, he genuinely seems to enjoy fighting alongside Dante.
I think his theme song from DMC5, Bury the Light accentuates this very well. The lyrics "Bury the light deep within, cast aside there's no coming home" perfectly highlights Vergil's struggles. He doesn't believe there's a place for himself in the world, and that he can never be safe and secure, so he has to bury his humanity and act cold and ruthless in order to hide his vulnerabilities and never be hurt by other people.
There's also the fact Vergil is unironically cool as shit and very charismatic so that's also a factor in making him a good edgy character
in Shadow's defense: he was done so much better in his debut in Sonic Adventure 2, and has kinda lost all semblance of character over time
he went from "I swore vengence on humanity because GUN took away my best friend/sister, but as i regain my memories i realize she wanted me to save them all no matter what, so time for the hypest speedrun of a redemption arc ever" to "CAN YOU SEE ALL OF ME, CAPTURE YOU OR SET YOU FREE, I AM ALL- I AM ALL OF ME" to.... Vegeta, but dumber
i blame his modern characterization on the fact SEGA has retconned away basically everything from the 2000s era, as well as the fact they placed down the cursed nails that are their mandates on how characters must be written ( _that_ one i blame on Kenders) but i could talk about this red and black gun-toting dipshit [affectionate] for hours on my own time
Time to check out the Shadow soundtrack to see which songs I should add to my playlist.
Even as a kid the more serious character always interested me because they didn't seem watered down and fake.
Man I got into the series Berserk because Guts was initially portrayed as an edgy character that tortured his enemies (who were demons).
I thought that was hella cool and started watching Berserk but afterwards the series shows you WHY he went from a traumatized kid to a well adjusted man to a super edgyboi and it humanizes him to a great degree.
While the series begins with him being an edgelord it later shows you his past and explain why he is the person he is.