As a lover of isometric rpgs thank you from the bottom of my heart for keeping up this content. This genre of games isn't the most popular but they are probably my favorite.
You're welcome and thank you for the comment! I also really love cRPGs and wish they were more popular due to how amazing they are, despite the learning curve. Hopefully the console release of Wrath brings it to a much wider audience!
If you had dipped 2 levels in Paladin and 1 level in Hell Knight on your Angel Oracle, you should be able to stack the attack bonus from Smite Evil and Smite Chaos with Mark of Justice. With your 46 charisma (+18 modifier), that's an additional +36 AB against a chaotic evil enemy once per rest. (It's all a bit silly since once you hit a high enough benchmark any further AB stacking is irrelevant, but if we're trying to make the numbers go as high as possible...)
Yep, I did that for my Barbarian Build Guide here: th-cam.com/video/Y7r95JXNNew/w-d-xo.html The penalty to AC isn't really an issue unless it was for tank characters.
I just bought EE as a new player to Pathfinder-anything, and I've been absolutely gobbling up all your videos of late. I really feel like you explain the mechanics in some of the best ways I've seen. I would love to see some Legend builds here. I'm wondering if something like this would be fun to build: BFT + EK + Trickster -> Legend -> Charging Cavalier (retaining all the critical picks from Trickster, as that's apparently something that works). The idea is to be a charging crit attacking maniac that can also grant 40 BAB and 8 attacks to all party members (on top of the trickster fun stuff along the way).
Legend is certainlyt he most customizable path, with so many options! I'm planning on making a Guide for it, definitely with the Trickster synergy and also high BAB classes for that tasty 40 BAB indeed!
Love these updated wotr vids. It would be cool to see a video on building a party. I like all the build videos, but sometimes I struggling with how to actually fit them all together.
Very nice explanation especially for the different buffs. I realy hope you do a Cruomancer Lich Build in future. I realy like your Race specific builds!
Cruomancer, while a great merc for a lich, gives very little if its run as the Lich himself/herself (dhampir undeadness gets overwritten by lich, +1/2 to DC can be done with exploiter, CI doesnt give your skellybro the stats, etc).
@@nereos77 Well, not really, a undead blood wizard both cant become a lich (already undead) and it would hurt their specialty (no blood for blood-based manipulation of the arcane arts). Depends more on if you thought of the character as a lich from the start.
But are Dhampires aren't realy undead. They are living but have some attributes of undead. So they could become Liches. And they have blood like any other living creature. Maybe I didn't specify enough in my last comment with undead I meant the Cruomancer (like the spell lore)
@@nereos77 Well, all half-undead templates shared the fact that they count as undead for other template applications in 3e. Technically argument can be made PF doesnt need to follow unaddressed factors and PF dhampir isnt explicitly half-vampire or that mythic lich isnt actually the lich template... still, eh.
@@cRPGBro Trying an Eldrich Scion loremaster multi with elven curve blade and really enjoying it so far. You only get like 1 high level spell but i have true strike quicked and extended so I get a 20 insight attack bonus that last 2 rounds which is pretty darn sweet. I was trying to RP teclis from warhammer fantasy (except Aivu instead of arcane phoenix) only on core but surprised how well its doing. Not meta at all but tons of self buffs and great attack rolls (buffed ofc) and Damage (elemental barage and spells like vampiric touch do way more then I initially thought) and getting the combat secrets from loremaster is so awesome. Going full dex and getting power attack and improved cleaving finish without any other feat investment feels amazing lol
Its probably worth mentioning that microscopic proportions is a +6 size bonus to dex and reducing size category by 2, netting +5 in total, which is cleartly superior for AB to either frightful aspect of legendary proportions, which give size penalties to AB.
Can I request an early levels(Prolouge+Act 1) optimization guide from you? What classes and builds hit their stride early and aren't a dead-end choice in the long run? 🤔 Your channel and the discount when Enhanced Edition was released made me pull the trigger on purchasing this great game. But since I know so much about optimal builds and progression from your videos I decided to start on Hard. The water elemental was a rude awakening but I buffed up and save scummed and got through it somehow.
You're welcome! I have one for Stats/AC/DC buffs here: th-cam.com/video/fmO5ENUIi1g/w-d-xo.html And for how to Debuff Saves: th-cam.com/video/4GYV0y9NreY/w-d-xo.html
Supposedly also works with Brown-Fur Transmuter/Alchemist's ability to cast Transformation on allies, using the caster's levels, so 40 BAB for everyone. Never got around to trying it.
Uff... I would take some insights to play a bit on my char. So, far my record so far was +152 attack bonus (without a roll), but - True strike at a moment was off - Enforcing gaze Attack of Opportunity was off - Power Attack was on Owerall could be around +190 AB. You could add more stacming stuff as well.
That's really nice to hear! It's crazy how high the values can go when you truly stack everything. Legend will certainly have a advantage here due to potential 40 BAB before buffs are added.
@@cRPGBro I don't know, because AB could be caped as spell casting level. Have checked, it's not caped. On top, they can retain spells from merged spellbooks. So, it's cool.
I feel like there is a build using domain zealot and the travel domain to literally teleport all over the place using full attacks….using one of your angel builds…..I’ll workshop it
@@cRPGBro Yeah would probably be boring after an act, but if it is just a 2 man team, that you just bring whenever you wanna go assassin's creed, it maybe tolerable haha.
I'm planning on updating Lich Guide with Undead Companions Builds, but for Kestoglyr, you mostly want to focus on his Dual Scimitars + Fighter progression for the amazing capstone. Dual Wielding Feats + Combat Reflexes, Outflank, Focus + Dazzling Display and Shatter Defenses are all a must.
To be fair, by default they shouldn't, I believe. But ever since they nerfed Guarded Hearth from Sacred to Competence, it is stacking with Lethal Stance.
Off topic but I wanted to ask, how does lunge and size/reach weapons work with mounted pets. If you are far enough to hit with the weapon does that mean that the pet can't attack? Or if the pet is close enough, the reach weapon and lunge is kind of wasted?
It works just fine. The pet will try to move towards its range first, which tends to be lower than a character with a reach weapon. If you are having trouble with it, try to attack with the pet first (by choosing the pet's portrait) this way the pet 100% will move to where it can first attack, so at its own melee range.
The fact that you need a 20 minute fucking guide to even be able to hit the fucking enemies in this game shows how fucking broken this whole thing is. WTF owlcat?????
Why competence bonus from guargded hearth and lethal stance stack? On 6:23 I see tons of same type bonuses that aren't meant to stack, what is wring with this game?
Can we have a gold making guide? Early to mid game I often have to decide what to buy because of limited gold even with doing everything and looting all I find
I think early game, at least until Chapter 3, gold is going to be tight. However, as soon as Chapter 3, gold will stop mattering. ESPECIALLY if you have the latest DLC, The Treasure of the Midnight Isles. Otherwise, you can rush for the Blackwater Dungeon at Chapter 3. It can be a tough area if you are a first timer, however, you'll be swimming in gold after you finish it. Chapter 4+ you also drown in gold from all the enchanted loot you find on every trashmob.
Bro my attack bonus is low asf lol I had to drop difficulty to get passed a dungeon. I'm at act 3 almost at the end, I'm unsure what gear I should have at this point. I feel my gears letting me down.
@@cRPGBro double checked, triple checked - created lvl 13 paladin merc (CL 10), makes every weapon +2, regardless if it is non-magic weapon, or a +1 or +2 weapon, turned on Lich dark rites making him CL 12 - makes every weapon +3, regardless if it is non-magic weapon, or a +1/+2/+3 weapon also tried different difficulties just in case, same thing are you sure you don't have any (transmutation) CL enhancing gear/effects on? also, I am running on version 2.0.4k
U say in the vid that wepon enhansment is caped at +5 but in the weppon attack down u have it is a +2 instans and a +5 instans so it is stackning the total of stacking enhansmen competens and insight was +11
guarded harth gave a +13 so ring of inemet demise and lethalstans +2 and +6 shulde not count but they do wepon enhansment have +5 and +2 and goggles of piresing gase +1 shulde not stack whit inspiering comand but it dose
+2 extra Weapon Enhancement comes from Crusader's Edge Spell for the Bane Property, so a total of +7 Weapon Enhancement. It is true that there are multiple Competence and Insight bonuses at the same time, probably because they come from Items + different abilities, although that might be a bug!
Well, it's just that the game for some reason treats Competence from Skald Lethal Stance, Guarded Hearth and Ring of Imminent Demise as special separate sources.
It should come from the Maugla Demon at the right side of the Lost Chapel, the extra area you can access after you defeat Nulkineth, with some pretty tough demons there.
@@cRPGBro They aren't meant to stack - in the Pathfinder RPG rules, at least. Fundamentally, for any modifier type that ISN'T "other" ("untyped" in original Pathfinder rules) you only apply the highest unless the rules explicitly say the modifier stacks, and this is very, very, rare, The dodge modifier and ability score modifier from leveling up are the only examples of stacking most characters will ever have to deal with, outside feats that explicitly mention they stack. The incredibly high AB and AC possible in Owlbear's games are only possible because Owlbear for one reason or another only bothered to implement a few stacking restrictions. I'd like to believe this was done deliberately as Owlbear homebrew rules, but given how buggy their games are on release and how poorly balanced, it seems more likely to be a case of bugs or ignoring or forgetting to implement the rest. Which admittedly makes for a fun math exercise, but has rather ridiculous results when taken to extremes as you do here. If for jokes and giggles you want to try playing the game more in accordance with Pathfinder rules than Owlbear rules, try using the TableTopTweaks mods (-Core, and -Base) that fixes most of the stacking violations. (But not Incorporeal; that is still insane). You can still get very high values because this is a level 20 adventure path with mythics, but not THAT ridiculously high. (You'll also be limited to using at most 6 mythic abilities in your builds, because the "extra mythic ability, you can take this multiple times" mythic feat is Owlbear homebrew, as the Pathfinder rules only allows that mythic feat to be taken once like other feats. This mostly hurts caster builds, that tend to use a lot of mythic abilities and take them early, trivializing most of the game, whereas under the Pathfinder mythic rules the best you can do is getting a mythic ability on 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, and 9 by using that singular extra mythic ability feat at mythic 2, so the vast majority of the game is played with 4 mythic abilities or less)
120+attack on 20lvl is not a problem. The problem is to hit bosses on 1-10 levels on unfair. You would know this if you actually played the game and not just made builds with a trainer
I already have videos of almost every single story boss in the game on Unfair, including the Large Water Elemental which is the earliest and hardest battle if you're going with how early you do it, with just 4 party members and still at level 2.
![เขามัทรี - เอ็กซ์ ศุภกฤต - จอนนี่มิวสิค [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AS9ufKuQIVs/mqdefault.jpg)
As a lover of isometric rpgs thank you from the bottom of my heart for keeping up this content. This genre of games isn't the most popular but they are probably my favorite.
You're welcome and thank you for the comment!
I also really love cRPGs and wish they were more popular due to how amazing they are, despite the learning curve.
Hopefully the console release of Wrath brings it to a much wider audience!
Dude deserves more subs , keeps pumping out these guides like its nothing, dont burn yourself out bro take care and thanks
Thanks, man!
Always helps a lot to hear nice words like this in the comments 😀
If you had dipped 2 levels in Paladin and 1 level in Hell Knight on your Angel Oracle, you should be able to stack the attack bonus from Smite Evil and Smite Chaos with Mark of Justice. With your 46 charisma (+18 modifier), that's an additional +36 AB against a chaotic evil enemy once per rest. (It's all a bit silly since once you hit a high enough benchmark any further AB stacking is irrelevant, but if we're trying to make the numbers go as high as possible...)
Looking forward to more companion builds. Would love your updated take on lann and woljif
Ember and Daeran are coming up next, but the rest will soon follow 😀
Reckless stance stacks with inspire ferocity, so you could take the bonus twice at the expense of AC.
Yep, I did that for my Barbarian Build Guide here: th-cam.com/video/Y7r95JXNNew/w-d-xo.html
The penalty to AC isn't really an issue unless it was for tank characters.
I just bought EE as a new player to Pathfinder-anything, and I've been absolutely gobbling up all your videos of late. I really feel like you explain the mechanics in some of the best ways I've seen.
I would love to see some Legend builds here. I'm wondering if something like this would be fun to build:
BFT + EK + Trickster -> Legend -> Charging Cavalier (retaining all the critical picks from Trickster, as that's apparently something that works).
The idea is to be a charging crit attacking maniac that can also grant 40 BAB and 8 attacks to all party members (on top of the trickster fun stuff along the way).
Legend is certainlyt he most customizable path, with so many options!
I'm planning on making a Guide for it, definitely with the Trickster synergy and also high BAB classes for that tasty 40 BAB indeed!
Love these updated wotr vids. It would be cool to see a video on building a party. I like all the build videos, but sometimes I struggling with how to actually fit them all together.
Keep it up mate
Thanks, will do!
Very nice explanation especially for the different buffs. I realy hope you do a Cruomancer Lich Build in future. I realy like your Race specific builds!
Cruomancer, while a great merc for a lich, gives very little if its run as the Lich himself/herself (dhampir undeadness gets overwritten by lich, +1/2 to DC can be done with exploiter, CI doesnt give your skellybro the stats, etc).
True but it's like an undead wizard not going lich would be something disappointing wouldn't it?
@@nereos77 Well, not really, a undead blood wizard both cant become a lich (already undead) and it would hurt their specialty (no blood for blood-based manipulation of the arcane arts).
Depends more on if you thought of the character as a lich from the start.
But are Dhampires aren't realy undead. They are living but have some attributes of undead. So they could become Liches. And they have blood like any other living creature. Maybe I didn't specify enough in my last comment with undead I meant the Cruomancer (like the spell lore)
@@nereos77 Well, all half-undead templates shared the fact that they count as undead for other template applications in 3e.
Technically argument can be made PF doesnt need to follow unaddressed factors and PF dhampir isnt explicitly half-vampire or that mythic lich isnt actually the lich template... still, eh.
I only dont like strength builds because the size buffs just look goofy to me. its stupid I know but the buffs are literally so good
This is why I wish I could tolerate the Aeon route. I know they have a thing just for that.
I personally like the godzilla proportions, but I can understand why some wouldn't!
@@cRPGBro Trying an Eldrich Scion loremaster multi with elven curve blade and really enjoying it so far. You only get like 1 high level spell but i have true strike quicked and extended so I get a 20 insight attack bonus that last 2 rounds which is pretty darn sweet.
I was trying to RP teclis from warhammer fantasy (except Aivu instead of arcane phoenix) only on core but surprised how well its doing. Not meta at all but tons of self buffs and great attack rolls (buffed ofc) and Damage (elemental barage and spells like vampiric touch do way more then I initially thought) and getting the combat secrets from loremaster is so awesome. Going full dex and getting power attack and improved cleaving finish without any other feat investment feels amazing lol
Its probably worth mentioning that microscopic proportions is a +6 size bonus to dex and reducing size category by 2, netting +5 in total, which is cleartly superior for AB to either frightful aspect of legendary proportions, which give size penalties to AB.
Microscopic is great fun indeed!
I think it used to stack with Reduce Person before too, but that appears to have been patched out.
Great guide. Clear and well structured.
Much appreciated!
I tried covering most of the good sources as possible.
@@cRPGBro we really appreciate you buddy :)
Can I request an early levels(Prolouge+Act 1) optimization guide from you? What classes and builds hit their stride early and aren't a dead-end choice in the long run? 🤔
Your channel and the discount when Enhanced Edition was released made me pull the trigger on purchasing this great game. But since I know so much about optimal builds and progression from your videos I decided to start on Hard.
The water elemental was a rude awakening but I buffed up and save scummed and got through it somehow.
QWAR-REEEE is the pronunciation for Quarry. As mentioned MAY-LAY for Melee too.
THIS IS THE VIDEO TY SOO MUCH!!!!. NEXT ONE IS AC and also one on DC SAVES/HIGH DC Spellcasting please
You're welcome!
I have one for Stats/AC/DC buffs here: th-cam.com/video/fmO5ENUIi1g/w-d-xo.html
And for how to Debuff Saves: th-cam.com/video/4GYV0y9NreY/w-d-xo.html
Transformation on legend 👀
Supposedly also works with Brown-Fur Transmuter/Alchemist's ability to cast Transformation on allies, using the caster's levels, so 40 BAB for everyone. Never got around to trying it.
40 BAB too OP!
Strength is the Chad way!
HUGE STR HUGE MUSCLES HUGE DAMAGE HUGE WEAPON!
Uff... I would take some insights to play a bit on my char.
So, far my record so far was +152 attack bonus (without a roll), but
- True strike at a moment was off
- Enforcing gaze Attack of Opportunity was off
- Power Attack was on
Owerall could be around +190 AB.
You could add more stacming stuff as well.
That's really nice to hear!
It's crazy how high the values can go when you truly stack everything.
Legend will certainly have a advantage here due to potential 40 BAB before buffs are added.
@@cRPGBro I don't know, because AB could be caped as spell casting level.
Have checked, it's not caped. On top, they can retain spells from merged spellbooks. So, it's cool.
My life will not be complete till I have confirmation that your machine gun thrown axe Wendy build is unchanged in enhanced edition. 😂
It's back with a vengeance and now even more effective I'd say 😁: th-cam.com/video/-R9s12qkaOM/w-d-xo.html
@@cRPGBro 🤠
I feel like there is a build using domain zealot and the travel domain to literally teleport all over the place using full attacks….using one of your angel builds…..I’ll workshop it
Des-nuh
Also, on an angel oracle, if you go the full 20 oracle with battle mystery, you do get pounce if you don't have a skald
@@fogdance put your butterfly away des-nuh
Tell me all about the results later!
I think a Coup de grace party specialized build would be really interesting. Especially if it would be viable, but not necessarily OP in Unfair
I have never tried it, usually because the debuffs I prefer don't tend to allow Coup, which is often just from Sleep/Paralyze.
@@cRPGBro Yeah would probably be boring after an act, but if it is just a 2 man team, that you just bring whenever you wanna go assassin's creed, it maybe tolerable haha.
Hey - I noticed you have never done a Kestoglyr build guide. Which one of your previous builds would you recommend for him?
I'm planning on updating Lich Guide with Undead Companions Builds, but for Kestoglyr, you mostly want to focus on his Dual Scimitars + Fighter progression for the amazing capstone.
Dual Wielding Feats + Combat Reflexes, Outflank, Focus + Dazzling Display and Shatter Defenses are all a must.
@@cRPGBro Thanks. When are you hoping to push out the Lich guide? If it's soon I will wait before I restart my playthrough :)
Competence bonuses stack? Did not know that.
To be fair, by default they shouldn't, I believe.
But ever since they nerfed Guarded Hearth from Sacred to Competence, it is stacking with Lethal Stance.
Off topic but I wanted to ask, how does lunge and size/reach weapons work with mounted pets. If you are far enough to hit with the weapon does that mean that the pet can't attack? Or if the pet is close enough, the reach weapon and lunge is kind of wasted?
It works just fine.
The pet will try to move towards its range first, which tends to be lower than a character with a reach weapon.
If you are having trouble with it, try to attack with the pet first (by choosing the pet's portrait) this way the pet 100% will move to where it can first attack, so at its own melee range.
Hello!
Is there any guide for Staunton and Delamere? I really cant figure out how to properly build them for Core.
The fact that you need a 20 minute fucking guide to even be able to hit the fucking enemies in this game shows how fucking broken this whole thing is. WTF owlcat?????
Why competence bonus from guargded hearth and lethal stance stack?
On 6:23 I see tons of same type bonuses that aren't meant to stack, what is wring with this game?
For some reason, these bonuses now stack after they nerfed Guarded Hearth from Sacred to Competence.
Can we have a gold making guide? Early to mid game I often have to decide what to buy because of limited gold even with doing everything and looting all I find
I think early game, at least until Chapter 3, gold is going to be tight.
However, as soon as Chapter 3, gold will stop mattering.
ESPECIALLY if you have the latest DLC, The Treasure of the Midnight Isles.
Otherwise, you can rush for the Blackwater Dungeon at Chapter 3. It can be a tough area if you are a first timer, however, you'll be swimming in gold after you finish it.
Chapter 4+ you also drown in gold from all the enchanted loot you find on every trashmob.
Bro my attack bonus is low asf lol I had to drop difficulty to get passed a dungeon. I'm at act 3 almost at the end, I'm unsure what gear I should have at this point. I feel my gears letting me down.
💪🤨☝️
😎
Sadly, Greater magic weapon spell does not stack anymore, one needs Caster level 20 to get +5 weapons this way ...
Are you sure?
I just tried having Seelah use GMW on a +2 Weapon and she made it +5 with 17 CL.
@@cRPGBro double checked, triple checked - created lvl 13 paladin merc (CL 10), makes every weapon +2, regardless if it is non-magic weapon, or a +1 or +2 weapon, turned on Lich dark rites making him CL 12 - makes every weapon +3, regardless if it is non-magic weapon, or a +1/+2/+3 weapon
also tried different difficulties just in case, same thing
are you sure you don't have any (transmutation) CL enhancing gear/effects on?
also, I am running on version 2.0.4k
U say in the vid that wepon enhansment is caped at +5 but in the weppon attack down u have it is a +2 instans and a +5 instans so it is stackning the total of stacking enhansmen competens and insight was +11
guarded harth gave a +13 so ring of inemet demise and lethalstans +2 and +6 shulde not count but they do wepon enhansment have +5 and +2 and goggles of piresing gase +1 shulde not stack whit inspiering comand but it dose
u can se it fore exampel in 12:11
@@stefanhansen8623 mate can't understand shit of what you are trying to say
+2 extra Weapon Enhancement comes from Crusader's Edge Spell for the Bane Property, so a total of +7 Weapon Enhancement.
It is true that there are multiple Competence and Insight bonuses at the same time, probably because they come from Items + different abilities, although that might be a bug!
@@cRPGBro yes but they shulde not stack only the monst powerfull instans shulde stak it is a bug all of it but i say aslong as it is ther lets use it
why do your competence bonuses stack?
Well, it's just that the game for some reason treats Competence from Skald Lethal Stance, Guarded Hearth and Ring of Imminent Demise as special separate sources.
@@cRPGBro huh, that’s weird. Wish the game was a bit more clear on those kinda things sometimes 😅.
where do you get the big game gloves?
It should come from the Maugla Demon at the right side of the Lost Chapel, the extra area you can access after you defeat Nulkineth, with some pretty tough demons there.
@@cRPGBro hold on i have to look this up. i have been through that area many times and never seen this item.
@@cRPGBro wow, would you believe me if i said i have played 8 different mythic paths but never found this item? lol
I didnt think competence bonuses were meant to stack.
It surprised me as well.
Perhaps they will remove that in a later patch.
The Imminent Demise Ring is what truly surprised me the most!
@@cRPGBro They aren't meant to stack - in the Pathfinder RPG rules, at least. Fundamentally, for any modifier type that ISN'T "other" ("untyped" in original Pathfinder rules) you only apply the highest unless the rules explicitly say the modifier stacks, and this is very, very, rare, The dodge modifier and ability score modifier from leveling up are the only examples of stacking most characters will ever have to deal with, outside feats that explicitly mention they stack.
The incredibly high AB and AC possible in Owlbear's games are only possible because Owlbear for one reason or another only bothered to implement a few stacking restrictions. I'd like to believe this was done deliberately as Owlbear homebrew rules, but given how buggy their games are on release and how poorly balanced, it seems more likely to be a case of bugs or ignoring or forgetting to implement the rest. Which admittedly makes for a fun math exercise, but has rather ridiculous results when taken to extremes as you do here.
If for jokes and giggles you want to try playing the game more in accordance with Pathfinder rules than Owlbear rules, try using the TableTopTweaks mods (-Core, and -Base) that fixes most of the stacking violations. (But not Incorporeal; that is still insane). You can still get very high values because this is a level 20 adventure path with mythics, but not THAT ridiculously high.
(You'll also be limited to using at most 6 mythic abilities in your builds, because the "extra mythic ability, you can take this multiple times" mythic feat is Owlbear homebrew, as the Pathfinder rules only allows that mythic feat to be taken once like other feats. This mostly hurts caster builds, that tend to use a lot of mythic abilities and take them early, trivializing most of the game, whereas under the Pathfinder mythic rules the best you can do is getting a mythic ability on 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, and 9 by using that singular extra mythic ability feat at mythic 2, so the vast majority of the game is played with 4 mythic abilities or less)
120+attack on 20lvl is not a problem.
The problem is to hit bosses on 1-10 levels on unfair.
You would know this if you actually played the game and not just made builds with a trainer
Level 19 Mythic level 7, areshkagal fight still wiped me on fkn daring. Even on daring you have to have great builds else you are fkd
I already have videos of almost every single story boss in the game on Unfair, including the Large Water Elemental which is the earliest and hardest battle if you're going with how early you do it, with just 4 party members and still at level 2.