"Factory settings are no fun" LOL I can't help myself either man I like tinkering with things... That's the only way I can wrap my mind around whats going on... I have a feeling I would completely trash a bunch of brass with this thing. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
There's a simple diagram included in the instructions that shows the proper orientation of the inside and outside cutters. I admire your initial instincts to take the whole assembly apart and understand how it works, but this is one piece of equipment where the instructions make things a lot more straightforward.
I have four of these RCBS three-way cutters. They require about ten minutes to set up. I recommend reading the instructions before use. Mine all work perfectly and do a beautiful job. I would suggest holding down on the release lever while the pilot centers the case . Thanks for making these videos.
I have two of the heads, one set up for 30 cal, and one set for 22 cal. Once set (you discovered how finicky it can be) I have never needed to adjust for the last 20 years. I have even taken my cordless 1/2" chuck drill, removed the turn handle, and chuck that baby up. You will be amazed at how quickly you can get through 500 pieces of brass that way. Sure saves the multi step process of trimming then de-burring. Great content as always, and many thanks 👍
Man, I wish I could reload. I miss it so much. I'm down to about 500 primers, which I'm saving for emergencies and loading hunting rounds. I haven't seen primers on the shelves since before covid. I live in a small town in Idaho and there's maybe 5 gun stores within two hours of me, and no primers to be found. I'm debating taking a weekend trip to Salt Lake City (4 hours away) just to shop around the greater SLC region for primers. Thanks for the content Johnny. Your videos keep me going during these hard times. Also your second channel has been super fun even though I don't have much interest chickens or pigs lol.
@@johnwadsworth4916 I'm a college student. I can't buy 5k at time for 600 bucks, thats like 6 weeks of groceries for me. But thanks for the suggesting. I have to buy 1k or 2k at a time.
Honestly, it’s not worth the gas to go to SLC just to shop for primers. Keep an eye on KSL classifieds in northern Utah and see if you can catch someone in Cache valley or Box elder area that isn’t asking crazy prices.
I bought two of these, one for .22 caliber and another for .30 caliber, and I have to say once they're adjusted as they should be, you'll wonder how you ever got along trimming brass without them. One thing you Redding trimmer owners will be happy to know is that this cutter fits the Redding 1400 and 2400 trimmers with no problem at all. I burned through well over 100 .30-06 cases with this on my Redding 2400 so easily that it actually made the otherwise tedious job of trimming a bit fun.
"We can make anything complicated." Pretty much sums up reloading overall, I think. Entertaining video, and I'm glad it turned out well in the end. I was getting frustrated watching it not work right; I can imagine how you felt. Thanks for the honest video.
Thanks for doing this video! Trimming has always been *the worst* part of my reloading experience, and when I started to get into .223, I looked at all sorts of options to try to eliminate time doing that as much as possible. I took a serious look at this product because I wanted the consistency and the time saving - the only thing that really made me hesitate was the use of the pilot. (I don't like things touching the inside of my case necks after resizing.) The Lee Quick Trim Dies are okay, too, but they leave your press with brass chips, and sometimes you have to do some QC on your case neck mouths because the die will sometimes have some leavings in there. I had forgotten that RCBS still makes their X-dies, where you basically trim once, and, as long as you use the X-die afterwards, you never have to trim the brass again. So, now, I use my LE Wilson Case Trimmer to do my prep after fire-forming and I call it good after that.
This is why i went with a forster 3-in-1 trim/chamfer/debur bit, so i didn't have to deal with tuning in any settings. Granted, you get locked into a single caliber and need a new $70 3-in1 for every other caliber; however, it appears that at the end of the day, after all of that adjustment, you're planning to leave that setup dedicated to 223. I hated---HATED---how long i had to spend preparing brass when i needed to trim and i really like how these 3-in-1 trimmers cut down on prep time by 2/3's. I think it also adds considerable consistency compared to my manual chamfer and debur. Thanks for letting us laugh and learn along with you as you set this up!
Forster is better for sure but it also has interchangeable pilots or you can make your own if you have the lathe and yes it takes time to setup but if you watch Gavin video he shows a clever way to setup inside chamfer using feeler gages and the outer one is easier to setup.
@@DimaProk Funny both of you mention this. I just bought the RCBS trimmer and the Tri-Way as shown in this video. If I can put it bluntly, the product and the tri-way from RCBS sucked; the products have not been great to use. I have a friend that has one, and it works for him. If you enjoy a lot of tinkering I'm imagining you can get it setup right, but the whole point in buying this is saving time, not spending hours turning tiny frustrating locking screws. Furthermore, I don't like RCBS locking mechanism for cases that's supposedly "universal". Things don't align well, and it just seems inferior to Forster. Put bluntly again, I hate the trimmer too. I've also never been a major RCBS fan just in general with two exceptions, their calipers and their electronic powder dispensers seem like great products from my experience. Beyond that, I'm not a general fan of their products in general. I'm sending the RCBS one back to Midway and I just ordered a Forster cutter with their 3 way trimmers for .224 and .30 caliber. Since .223 and .30 calibers is MOST of what I shoot, it should cover .308, 30-06, etc. They are expensive but they appear to be worth it with their carbide blades, and generally not a need to adjust much. On top of that, their case trimmer seems worlds above what RCBS has here. If I'm doing off calibers or feeling the need to trim things like .45-70 Gov to get even crimping, I can still use the conventional trimmer head and pilots because I also bought there bench mounted normal chamfer/deburr tool. A few turns with that and you'll still quickly process cases for calibers that I'm not going to shoot as much. All in all, Forster seems like a far superior product and seems great for only being somewhat more expensive, but not prohibitively more expensive. Your thoughts on what I've said?
@@SkepticTalk The setup is not extremely difficult but it sure does take time and it's not fun, frankly setting up Forster is even more difficult because there is no stop screw, once you loosen the blade you lose all previous settings and you pretty much have to feel it and as I mentioned the inner blade is harder to set up than outer blade. With the inner blade I used a paper clip and try to push it out and I had it resting just under a pilot, after several trials and errors it was PERFECT! No excessive cutting like you saw in the video where it looks like a funnel, just enough to take off the sharp edge so you're not scrapping bullets and that's perfect for me. Seating die actually plays a lot more important role than deep chamfering. There are several different dies that keep the bullet aligned straight and especially important with lead bullets. I also bought 2 RCBS trimmers to avoid changing settings. If you shop around you can find Forster for around 60 bucks and free shipping, that's what I paid so it's really not that more expensive than RCBS. I actually adapted to my Hornady trimmer, you see RCBS works perfectly with Hornady, you just unscrew the original cutter and screw in RCBS and you're good to go but with Forster I had to machine a whole new shaft which was actually piece of cake, in fact, my new one had zero play whereas original was pretty sloppy. The way Forster attaches it just slips on and held by a set screw, very simple! I was still getting marks from the pilot inside the brass with Forster head and I was getting annoyed, I could actually see quite a bit of runout with naked eye as the pilot moved up and down. I decided to test concentricity and chucked it in the lathe and put my dial indicator on it, and yes it had more runout than liked. Depending on where clamped it, at best it was 3.5 to 4 thousands and at worst .008". I actually end up ordering another one which had a lot smaller runout between 1 and 2 thousands when I clamp it with the set screw in the same marked spot. What I discovered as the real source of my problems where I could feel the pilot binding as I rotated the cutter was Hornady's brass holding design. The lever is very convinient to lock the brass and that's what I liked it however it turned out to be a bad design. I took the whole shaft out of the cutter frame and chucked it in the lathe to see how concentric it runs and my jaw just dropped! The brass was wobbling like crazy and I am not talking about just up and down because that can be adjusted but the neck of the brass was doing a "lasso" spin. Would have never known since that part doesn't spin, it only holds the brass but it's tilting the brass and that was causing binding and score marks inside the necks. For comparison, I've tried Lee cheapy holders and it wasn't like that! I actually had Forster with the new shaft in the chuck and Lee holder in the tailstock drill chuck, trimmed some 30-30 brass, perfect chamfer inside and outside! It used to be that I would have oval chamfering and now I am thinking maybe my RCBS trimmers were not as bad as I blamed them. I need a better system, I am going to try Forster collet holding system, it doesn't look as easy and convenient as Hornady.
Love the 3 way cutters. Right now only have for 22cal. I really want to get the 30 call to add to my set up. I use it on my Hornady Cam-Lock Case Trimmer. It works great.
I have and do like the Forster 3-n-1 cutter head. I had to modified it a little to fit onto my Lyman universal trimmer. It is the best thing I ever did to my trimmer. Time saver!
A few years ago you were doing case prep. with a Lee case trimmer in a cordless drill and I was using a RCBS case trimmer like yours only length trimming and deburr /chamfer by hand. We both did a 180. I'm using the Lee trimmer with a Lyman deburring/ chamfer tool to clean up the mouth. Lately I did get a case prep center all of my stuff fits , the only thing I had to buy was the trimmer head to fit the prep center.
If I had to do 3 way brass trimming, I'd go for the Forster trimmer head. It's preadjusted so there is no fiddling around setting it up. I've got the RCBS 3 way head, and it's a pain. I bought it because I thought it would save me time on trimming large quantities of cases, but it doesn't do that. The pilot the case fits over has to be just the right size. If it's loose, or not centered you get a lopsided cut. If the pilot is to tight, then you have trouble getting the case on and off of the pilot, slowing you down. That's not much of a problem if you're doing zero to 300 cases, but you get over that and it gets old real quick. What I do no now is trim all the .223 cases with a regular straight cutterhead and don't do any deburring, inside or outside at all. I just wet tumble the brass with stainless pins and that takes care of the outside deburring, leaving just a little rim, which doesn't seem to make a difference, chamber fit or group wise. Instead of the inside chamfering I use a Lee universal neck expander to just open the case mouth a touch, and after seating I use the Lee factory crimp die to close the case mouth again.
Hello, you might try just running the set screw out just enough to let it slide and it should stop the binding on the adjustment screw, it won't tilt and catch the knurling. Hope this helps. Happy New Year 2023
I have one for 223. ABSOLOUTELY FANTASTIC! My plan is to get a 30cal full head and set it up. then I will just have to adjust to trim length when swapping heads. Also they make drill adapter for the the RCBS trim pro. makes quick work of batches of brass.
I bought a Trim Pro 2 recently, but I've been eyeing these cutters for a while. You confirmed my suspicion that it was a real pain to set up. I agree with you that it might be worthwhile to have one for each caliber. Cost aside, my only concern is using this after sizing brass w/o the the expander ball followed by an expander mandrel die. With the standard pilot, I just chucked it in a drill and and sanded a few thou off. These pilots don't look like that's possible.
Maybe try the outside adjustment with the set screw run in far enough that the cutter rides against it to help keep it aligned. I think with the set screw backed all the way out it allows the cutter get in a bind. Dunno, just a thought.
I have one of those for my trim pro there is a self feeding part for the trimmer also and yes getting everything set up is a pain and I knew exactly what you where hanging up on before you said anything
I have on in 30 cal and 22. I use it on the Hornady trimmer. The 22 cal works better but still the fact that it scores the brass inside the neck with the pilot I don't use it anymore. Another thing I found is that after tumbling the brass its almost as if the brass neck shrinks and I have a hard time getting the pilot in, I have to run the brass through the expander first - it's such a chore I don't even bother to use it anymore, just trim with a regular trimmer and deburr and chamfer by hand, I even took the pilot to the belt sander to round the front edge thinking that might stop the scoring - nope. Another thing you don't notice right away is damn thing goes dull pretty quickly because it's only hardened steel. This is why I like Forster better, it uses carbide blades, and adjusts are different but at least you don't have two cutters fighting for space. I bought the Forster 30 cal version and it's very nice but I noticed the pilot wobbles. Not really a problem with long 30-30 cases but it's a problem with short 6mm ARC. (Yes, I made a 6mm pilot on the lathe and it works great.) I put a dial indicator and the pilot is not co-centric to the cutter body, it's .006" off center. The problem is not the pilot but the cutter head has the pilot hole drilled off center. So I am waiting to replace it but it works so much better in general, this is what really expensive Henderson trimmers use so I figured it has to be good and it is. They started making their own cutter heads now and when you watch Gavin's video there is zero wobble.
Great video. Great product. I have 4 of the and leave them set for each cartridge, then easy to swap out. Tedious to adjust. Wish they would thread the outside deburring and set screw it. Works good as is though.
21:00 - The reason why the chamfer cutter got bound up was because of brass particles in its channel. It would have moved freely again if you had blasted it out with compressed air to clear out the particles.
I've bought and tried these and they're good for target cases, but I prefer the Little Crow trimmer on a drill press followed by the Lyman case prep station is the fastest way to get trim and prep done on a thousand or more cases at a time. This includes the primer pocket prep and military crimp removal on the Lyman..
I use the Little Crow WFT for .223 also. Push the case in, when you feel it's done trimming, rotate it backwards 1/4 turn and done. No case prep center necessary.
I finally just decided to prep the years & years worth of range pickups I'd been collecting. Almost 10,000 cases lol! And that setup you use is EXACTLY how I trimmed/chamfer/deburred my 223 cases I've slowly been working on all year! Finally all done this week! Prepped and ready to load this week!
I have been using the RCBS 3-way trimmers for years now... and I wouldn't change for the world! Doing the set up the first time is a giant PITA.. but after you do it a couple of times it gets a whole lot easier. Watching you adjusting it was like reliving a nightmare...LOL. I was yelling at the screen for you not to do that... just like watching your favorite team on TV do stuff that was sooooo very wrong. If you got the $$$ having one for each caliber is the easiest way to go.
LOL... I was literally yelling at the computer also. The whole video was agonizing. I wished I could jump through the screen and helped him out. I could feel his frustration building along with mine.
I’ve had a giruad, rcbs 3 way and a Henderson trimmer. Sold the giruad and Henderson because the cost/ease of use with the rcbs are huge comparatively speaking. I’d like to say I won’t be straying from the 3 way again but you never know. Thanks for the video and time to make it!
I heard this trimmer head will fit in the Hornady Cam Lock case trimmer, any idea if that's true? Great video, trimming is the most disliked part of reloading. I have trashed a bunch of cases.
Greener reloader here Johnny! Love your channel. Now, I know that knife edge = bad, but can the edge be fixed via wet tumble with the southern shine media/pins? Normally after re-sizing I'd wet tumble to rid the cases of sizing lube. Recently, I've purposefully delayed wet tumble immediately after sizing & have gone straight to trimming, chamfering & debur so that I could use the benefits of the media in the wet tumble to smooth out any burrs or knife edges I may have missed. I haven't used my bore scope to verify if this actually happens or not. What do you think of my theory Johnny? Not sure if the tumble is doing that or not. Got me thinking now! Thanks for the upload man! Been looking at this gadget. Love my WFT a lot!
I find build up on the pilot from the inside of the case mouths has ruined one pilot for me and damaged inside of my case mouths . I polished a brand new one and haven't had a issue. Also after I started annealing I've noticed the brass gets transferred to the pilot so much it wouldn't fit in case mouth any more. Softer brass.... anyways after polished the spinning surface I haven't had a issue. U should see if there is a difference in inside case neck vs polished
A possible easy fix to this is to remove one cutter off the pilot. Since it's rotational, realistically only one cutter would be a requirement. So the removal of one and leaving three on would still do the job efficiently and leave plenty of room on an empty space to adjust the outside deburring blade. Just a thought.
An out of the box trim would have given a baseline to compare to your preferred settings. I have the ,223 and .30 heads a Forstner Lock-n-Load trimmer with a power adapter (ala Dima Prok).
How to go about it the hard way. When all else fails read the directions. The pilot is designed to give a light inside chamfer installed from the factory. Also use a case that is trimmed and deburred and make light contact with the outside cutter.
I have found chamfer and deburr manually then adjust the 3 way cuter to those cuts. In hand no need to put it on and take it off. You can get pretty close and fine tune from there.
Giraud triway trimmer all day every day. I tried these with a powered trim pro 2. It destroyed the inside of my brasses necks because the pilot was too big. Also, neither of the Trim pro 2s i went through cut flush because the pocket for the shell holders on the base was machines crooked on both units. They all got returned. They're also insanely slow cutting even if they did work.
All due respects , When you disassembled it that was you downfall. they are already kind of close. I have two ..one 6.5mm and one .223 REM. set up should have been a lot faster. I seen your issue and have been down that road once. I have a drill adapter on both my Trim Pro's and shaving catchers. Brass prep is not so tedious anymore . I use case gauges to see if the case has stretched enough to even be trimmed in the trim pro...I get a few I just hit by hand. Watch Ebay for used trim pro's. the older models with the shell holders line up the case better than the new universal. I payed $70 for my last Trim Pro.
Overall, I don't think it's a bad design but it could use some needed improvements especially around the outside chamfer. A D shape hole to orient and guide the cutter plus a deeper thru slot in the cutter body would make a world of difference. I realize it would has a little cost but keep in mind most of these operations are CNC so the cost would be low. Awesome review!
I have this and about 6 different sizes. I have had no need to make adjustments except on the outside case cutter. I just throw a different pilot in it and it cuts to the same debth.
Would like to bring your attention to the Giraud Tri-Way Trimmer. Works really well and is far superior to the Frankford Arsenal system that also works with a drill.
It's a nice system but like everything else you need to make a decision about what system you want to go for but as we all know you end up with many different systems too do the same job, I have the redding and rcbs and hornady system but I keep coming back to the Lee system and I use the lyman brass center and I have the Lee in it
I wonder if the threads in the rcbs trimmer are the same as the Lyman trimmer. I am fairly certain the pilots are different shank size but unsure on the tool head thread. I don’t have a carbide cutter but I do need one. My regular one is about worn out.
I like RCBS. They make some great tools and have really good customer service, but as far as this tool is concerned, they can keep it. I’ll continue to use my L.E. Wilson case trimmer and chamfer and de-burr on my Lyman Case Prep Center. It’s a lot faster. I think RCBS is trying emulate what the Henderson Precision Case Trimmer does, but on the cheap. The Henderson unit is about $800 and motorized and is meant for professional shooters who shoot in volume.
Thanks for showing what's available Johnny. I do have a question for you. Have you ever had reloading data that stipulated barrel twist rate? I ask because I recently loaded up some Grendal, the recipe showed the test barrel had a 1:10 twist. Fortunately I didn't blow my face off. My barrel has a 1:8 twist and I didn't notice the difference until after the range session. The handloads were running about 150 fps faster than projected in the load data. Fortunately because I've watched a lot of your videos I knew what to look for on pressure signs. Thanks for all you've taught a lot of us. Edit to add: there were pressure signs from the first load to the last load I shot.
Some barrels are just faster then others, as long as you didn't have pressure signs I wouldn't worry. Twist shouldn't matter unless your shooting at the very top end of pressure, more then is safe in an AR anyway, think like guys loading for bolt guns pushing to the limit of the brass.
@@williambell7763 that's just it, I did have pressure signs from these loads. To date, my hand loads are usually slower than published data with no pressure signs. These are the first loads I've had pressure signs with. All loads were below max charge, the starting charge was about 150 fps faster than published and had ejector smear with primer cratering. Thank you for your response.
@@GB-zi6qr if it has pressure signs I'd be willing to bet the powder lot was hotter or something like that. Lots of things could have caused it. Good on catching it, and not blowing your face off
The fastest way to set them up is prep one case by hand then shove it the cutter and adjust all the blades so that they touch the already chamfered and debured case
The outside adjustment is binding because your loosened the set screw too much. Just loosen it enough that it’s no locking the cutter and it makes it way more smooth coming out……
Observations: 1) May be some OCD at work here 😅. 2) I use the 5-station Lyman case prep center; it fer sure has a learning curve too, as how long & how hard you press (holding each case by hand) effects the trim ALOT (less is better). 3) I expect the VLD inside cutter to produce better (much better) results with the RCBS tool based on using the Lyman VLD cutter on their case prep station. To me, the inside bevel produced by the standard RCBS cutter is far too shallow. Flat base _and_ boat-tail bullets center & seat easier (and likely with less runout) in the steeper chamfer the VLD cutter creates. 4) Ima bet the steeper inside cut makes it easier to adjust cos smaller adjustments should have a more visible change. I straight up wouldn't use the standard inside RCBS cutter. Too finicky and far too little bevel to guide any shape of bullet heel into the case. 5) FLITZ IS YOUR FRIEND. I use the green, kinda thick liquid version (in a bottle rather than the tube) to polish the inside of sizing dies, decapping stems / sizing buttons on both full length & neck sizing dies & the collet surfaces of Lee FCD dies. The increase in smoothness of operation, reduced marking of case bodies and straightness of necks after sizing are significant. With the RCBS trimmer, I'd chuck the pilot stem in a drill and polish the transition between the angled front portion that guides the case onto the pilot and the straight portion supporting the neck when the mouth has reached the cutter. Should be possible to smooth the straight portion just enough that it doesn't mark or scuff the inside of the case neck - making it easier to see the bottom edge of the chamfer & judge when it's 'enough.' And maybe to cause fewer scratches on bullets (from burrs / scuffs inside case necks) during seating. Thanks for showing us how difficult to adjust are these 3-way trimmers. After watching the vid it's easy to see how having one for each caliber size is better.
I use this all the time on my RCBS power trimmer . I have to hold the brass case or it just rips the brass out and destroys it . I still end up chamfering on the prep center anyway so I can't say it's worth all the trouble . It also seems RCBS quality has gone down hill over the last 10 years , I've flat quit using their dies , Their customer service kinda sucky too .
I have been looking at one of those for a while now and I'm glad I didn't get one. It looks like more work than it's worth. Trimming is bad enough as it is.
"Factory settings are no fun" LOL I can't help myself either man I like tinkering with things... That's the only way I can wrap my mind around whats going on... I have a feeling I would completely trash a bunch of brass with this thing. Great video as always keepem coming brother!!!
There's a simple diagram included in the instructions that shows the proper orientation of the inside and outside cutters. I admire your initial instincts to take the whole assembly apart and understand how it works, but this is one piece of equipment where the instructions make things a lot more straightforward.
I have four of these RCBS three-way cutters. They require about ten minutes to set up. I recommend reading the instructions before use. Mine all work perfectly and do a beautiful job. I would suggest holding down on the release lever while the pilot centers the case . Thanks for making these videos.
I have two of the heads, one set up for 30 cal, and one set for 22 cal. Once set (you discovered how finicky it can be) I have never needed to adjust for the last 20 years. I have even taken my cordless 1/2" chuck drill, removed the turn handle, and chuck that baby up. You will be amazed at how quickly you can get through 500 pieces of brass that way. Sure saves the multi step process of trimming then de-burring. Great content as always, and many thanks 👍
That's your slogan right there. "We can make anything seem complicated" JRB 2022
Man, I wish I could reload. I miss it so much. I'm down to about 500 primers, which I'm saving for emergencies and loading hunting rounds. I haven't seen primers on the shelves since before covid. I live in a small town in Idaho and there's maybe 5 gun stores within two hours of me, and no primers to be found. I'm debating taking a weekend trip to Salt Lake City (4 hours away) just to shop around the greater SLC region for primers. Thanks for the content Johnny. Your videos keep me going during these hard times. Also your second channel has been super fun even though I don't have much interest chickens or pigs lol.
Go to target sports
It's on line in ct
@@johnwadsworth4916 I'm a college student. I can't buy 5k at time for 600 bucks, thats like 6 weeks of groceries for me. But thanks for the suggesting. I have to buy 1k or 2k at a time.
Sorry that's to bad I will look around lesser numbers
Honestly, it’s not worth the gas to go to SLC just to shop for primers. Keep an eye on KSL classifieds in northern Utah and see if you can catch someone in Cache valley or Box elder area that isn’t asking crazy prices.
I bought two of these, one for .22 caliber and another for .30 caliber, and I have to say once they're adjusted as they should be, you'll wonder how you ever got along trimming brass without them.
One thing you Redding trimmer owners will be happy to know is that this cutter fits the Redding 1400 and 2400 trimmers with no problem at all.
I burned through well over 100 .30-06 cases with this on my Redding 2400 so easily that it actually made the otherwise tedious job of trimming a bit fun.
"We can make anything complicated." Pretty much sums up reloading overall, I think. Entertaining video, and I'm glad it turned out well in the end. I was getting frustrated watching it not work right; I can imagine how you felt. Thanks for the honest video.
I run the lee quick trim pro system and love it. Cheap, works well, and you dont have to clean up the cases any further afterward.
Same here. Very happy with it, especially the powered version.
Same here too, with the occasional use of a simple handheld Lyman deburring tool.
Thanks for doing this video!
Trimming has always been *the worst* part of my reloading experience, and when I started to get into .223, I looked at all sorts of options to try to eliminate time doing that as much as possible. I took a serious look at this product because I wanted the consistency and the time saving - the only thing that really made me hesitate was the use of the pilot. (I don't like things touching the inside of my case necks after resizing.) The Lee Quick Trim Dies are okay, too, but they leave your press with brass chips, and sometimes you have to do some QC on your case neck mouths because the die will sometimes have some leavings in there.
I had forgotten that RCBS still makes their X-dies, where you basically trim once, and, as long as you use the X-die afterwards, you never have to trim the brass again. So, now, I use my LE Wilson Case Trimmer to do my prep after fire-forming and I call it good after that.
Somewhere in Oroville, an RCBS employee is pouring whiskey into their coffee.
This is why i went with a forster 3-in-1 trim/chamfer/debur bit, so i didn't have to deal with tuning in any settings. Granted, you get locked into a single caliber and need a new $70 3-in1 for every other caliber; however, it appears that at the end of the day, after all of that adjustment, you're planning to leave that setup dedicated to 223.
I hated---HATED---how long i had to spend preparing brass when i needed to trim and i really like how these 3-in-1 trimmers cut down on prep time by 2/3's. I think it also adds considerable consistency compared to my manual chamfer and debur.
Thanks for letting us laugh and learn along with you as you set this up!
Forster is better for sure but it also has interchangeable pilots or you can make your own if you have the lathe and yes it takes time to setup but if you watch Gavin video he shows a clever way to setup inside chamfer using feeler gages and the outer one is easier to setup.
@@DimaProk Funny both of you mention this. I just bought the RCBS trimmer and the Tri-Way as shown in this video. If I can put it bluntly, the product and the tri-way from RCBS sucked; the products have not been great to use. I have a friend that has one, and it works for him. If you enjoy a lot of tinkering I'm imagining you can get it setup right, but the whole point in buying this is saving time, not spending hours turning tiny frustrating locking screws.
Furthermore, I don't like RCBS locking mechanism for cases that's supposedly "universal". Things don't align well, and it just seems inferior to Forster. Put bluntly again, I hate the trimmer too. I've also never been a major RCBS fan just in general with two exceptions, their calipers and their electronic powder dispensers seem like great products from my experience. Beyond that, I'm not a general fan of their products in general.
I'm sending the RCBS one back to Midway and I just ordered a Forster cutter with their 3 way trimmers for .224 and .30 caliber. Since .223 and .30 calibers is MOST of what I shoot, it should cover .308, 30-06, etc. They are expensive but they appear to be worth it with their carbide blades, and generally not a need to adjust much.
On top of that, their case trimmer seems worlds above what RCBS has here. If I'm doing off calibers or feeling the need to trim things like .45-70 Gov to get even crimping, I can still use the conventional trimmer head and pilots because I also bought there bench mounted normal chamfer/deburr tool. A few turns with that and you'll still quickly process cases for calibers that I'm not going to shoot as much.
All in all, Forster seems like a far superior product and seems great for only being somewhat more expensive, but not prohibitively more expensive. Your thoughts on what I've said?
@@SkepticTalk The setup is not extremely difficult but it sure does take time and it's not fun, frankly setting up Forster is even more difficult because there is no stop screw, once you loosen the blade you lose all previous settings and you pretty much have to feel it and as I mentioned the inner blade is harder to set up than outer blade. With the inner blade I used a paper clip and try to push it out and I had it resting just under a pilot, after several trials and errors it was PERFECT! No excessive cutting like you saw in the video where it looks like a funnel, just enough to take off the sharp edge so you're not scrapping bullets and that's perfect for me. Seating die actually plays a lot more important role than deep chamfering. There are several different dies that keep the bullet aligned straight and especially important with lead bullets.
I also bought 2 RCBS trimmers to avoid changing settings. If you shop around you can find Forster for around 60 bucks and free shipping, that's what I paid so it's really not that more expensive than RCBS. I actually adapted to my Hornady trimmer, you see RCBS works perfectly with Hornady, you just unscrew the original cutter and screw in RCBS and you're good to go but with Forster I had to machine a whole new shaft which was actually piece of cake, in fact, my new one had zero play whereas original was pretty sloppy. The way Forster attaches it just slips on and held by a set screw, very simple!
I was still getting marks from the pilot inside the brass with Forster head and I was getting annoyed, I could actually see quite a bit of runout with naked eye as the pilot moved up and down. I decided to test concentricity and chucked it in the lathe and put my dial indicator on it, and yes it had more runout than liked. Depending on where clamped it, at best it was 3.5 to 4 thousands and at worst .008". I actually end up ordering another one which had a lot smaller runout between 1 and 2 thousands when I clamp it with the set screw in the same marked spot.
What I discovered as the real source of my problems where I could feel the pilot binding as I rotated the cutter was Hornady's brass holding design. The lever is very convinient to lock the brass and that's what I liked it however it turned out to be a bad design. I took the whole shaft out of the cutter frame and chucked it in the lathe to see how concentric it runs and my jaw just dropped! The brass was wobbling like crazy and I am not talking about just up and down because that can be adjusted but the neck of the brass was doing a "lasso" spin. Would have never known since that part doesn't spin, it only holds the brass but it's tilting the brass and that was causing binding and score marks inside the necks. For comparison, I've tried Lee cheapy holders and it wasn't like that! I actually had Forster with the new shaft in the chuck and Lee holder in the tailstock drill chuck, trimmed some 30-30 brass, perfect chamfer inside and outside! It used to be that I would have oval chamfering and now I am thinking maybe my RCBS trimmers were not as bad as I blamed them. I need a better system, I am going to try Forster collet holding system, it doesn't look as easy and convenient as Hornady.
Love the 3 way cutters. Right now only have for 22cal. I really want to get the 30 call to add to my set up. I use it on my Hornady Cam-Lock Case Trimmer. It works great.
Holy ish thank you so dam much Shannon for doing this video. I am eternally thankful there is zero information about this on the internet
I have and do like the Forster 3-n-1 cutter head. I had to modified it a little to fit onto my Lyman universal trimmer. It is the best thing I ever did to my trimmer. Time saver!
You literally made a video of me drinkin beer with a new toy without me actually spending money. Thank you
A few years ago you were doing case prep. with a Lee case trimmer in a cordless drill and I was using a RCBS case trimmer like yours only length trimming and deburr /chamfer by hand. We both did a 180. I'm using the Lee trimmer with a Lyman deburring/ chamfer tool to clean up the mouth. Lately I did get a case prep center all of my stuff fits , the only thing I had to buy was the trimmer head to fit the prep center.
I've owned several 3 way cutters, for various calibers for several years.
Never a issue hold up great 👍
If I had to do 3 way brass trimming, I'd go for the Forster trimmer head. It's preadjusted so there is no fiddling around setting it up.
I've got the RCBS 3 way head, and it's a pain. I bought it because I thought it would save me time on trimming large quantities of cases, but it doesn't do that. The pilot the case fits over has to be just the right size. If it's loose, or not centered you get a lopsided cut. If the pilot is to tight, then you have trouble getting the case on and off of the pilot, slowing you down. That's not much of a problem if you're doing zero to 300 cases, but you get over that and it gets old real quick.
What I do no now is trim all the .223 cases with a regular straight cutterhead and don't do any deburring, inside or outside at all. I just wet tumble the brass with stainless pins and that takes care of the outside deburring, leaving just a little rim, which doesn't seem to make a difference, chamber fit or group wise. Instead of the inside chamfering I use a Lee universal neck expander to just open the case mouth a touch, and after seating I use the Lee factory crimp die to close the case mouth again.
Haven't watched in a while, but I'm glad to be back on board.
Hello, you might try just running the set screw out just enough to let it slide and it should stop the binding on the adjustment screw, it won't tilt and catch the knurling. Hope this helps. Happy New Year 2023
Got one and this video is a perfect illustration of why I retired it to the parts drawer. Way to finicky to adjust.
I have one for 223. ABSOLOUTELY FANTASTIC! My plan is to get a 30cal full head and set it up. then I will just have to adjust to trim length when swapping heads. Also they make drill adapter for the the RCBS trim pro. makes quick work of batches of brass.
I bought a Trim Pro 2 recently, but I've been eyeing these cutters for a while. You confirmed my suspicion that it was a real pain to set up. I agree with you that it might be worthwhile to have one for each caliber.
Cost aside, my only concern is using this after sizing brass w/o the the expander ball followed by an expander mandrel die. With the standard pilot, I just chucked it in a drill and and sanded a few thou off. These pilots don't look like that's possible.
I love my 3-way cutter. I never bothered to adjust the inside cutter. And, yes, its way easier than trying to set the thing up every time.
you may not believe this , in Canada those three way cutters are as much as $108.00 Canadian
very cool device ,
thank you for the video
Glad you finally got it working in the end!
Maybe try the outside adjustment with the set screw run in far enough that the cutter rides against it to help keep it aligned. I think with the set screw backed all the way out it allows the cutter get in a bind. Dunno, just a thought.
That is what I was going to suggest!
Watching this reminds me of me when I used to try to rebuild a carburetor. Pass the beer
I have been waiting for a video on this product forever!!!!!! Thank you.
I want to see a "How It's Made" on this thing. So many operations! Looks like more trouble than it is worth.
This video reminded me to pick one up. Totally forgot until this popped up
I have one of those for my trim pro there is a self feeding part for the trimmer also and yes getting everything set up is a pain and I knew exactly what you where hanging up on before you said anything
Walter Bunning did an excellent how to set up on this cutter
He sure did.
Walter seems like an unusually knowledgeable reloader.
His video made adjusting my own 3-way cutter way easier.
Dang man. Now I feel like I need to go buy one of these. I've wanted one for a while, but with Covid Supply Chain BS it's been tough. Thank you sir.
I have on in 30 cal and 22. I use it on the Hornady trimmer. The 22 cal works better but still the fact that it scores the brass inside the neck with the pilot I don't use it anymore. Another thing I found is that after tumbling the brass its almost as if the brass neck shrinks and I have a hard time getting the pilot in, I have to run the brass through the expander first - it's such a chore I don't even bother to use it anymore, just trim with a regular trimmer and deburr and chamfer by hand, I even took the pilot to the belt sander to round the front edge thinking that might stop the scoring - nope.
Another thing you don't notice right away is damn thing goes dull pretty quickly because it's only hardened steel. This is why I like Forster better, it uses carbide blades, and adjusts are different but at least you don't have two cutters fighting for space. I bought the Forster 30 cal version and it's very nice but I noticed the pilot wobbles. Not really a problem with long 30-30 cases but it's a problem with short 6mm ARC. (Yes, I made a 6mm pilot on the lathe and it works great.) I put a dial indicator and the pilot is not co-centric to the cutter body, it's .006" off center. The problem is not the pilot but the cutter head has the pilot hole drilled off center. So I am waiting to replace it but it works so much better in general, this is what really expensive Henderson trimmers use so I figured it has to be good and it is. They started making their own cutter heads now and when you watch Gavin's video there is zero wobble.
Good luck finding just the carbide cutter begin with I've been looking for one for almost 8 months
Great video. Great product. I have 4 of the and leave them set for each cartridge, then easy to swap out. Tedious to adjust. Wish they would thread the outside deburring and set screw it. Works good as is though.
21:00 - The reason why the chamfer cutter got bound up was because of brass particles in its channel.
It would have moved freely again if you had blasted it out with compressed air to clear out the particles.
I've bought and tried these and they're good for target cases, but I prefer the Little Crow trimmer on a drill press followed by the Lyman case prep station is the fastest way to get trim and prep done on a thousand or more cases at a time. This includes the primer pocket prep and military crimp removal on the Lyman..
I use the Little Crow WFT for .223 also. Push the case in, when you feel it's done trimming, rotate it backwards 1/4 turn and done. No case prep center necessary.
I finally just decided to prep the years & years worth of range pickups I'd been collecting. Almost 10,000 cases lol! And that setup you use is EXACTLY how I trimmed/chamfer/deburred my 223 cases I've slowly been working on all year! Finally all done this week! Prepped and ready to load this week!
I’ve been using this trimmer for 20 years , using the same type of brass will keep the process uniform
Have wondered these for a long time. Very informative.
I have been using the RCBS 3-way trimmers for years now... and I wouldn't change for the world! Doing the set up the first time is a giant PITA.. but after you do it a couple of times it gets a whole lot easier.
Watching you adjusting it was like reliving a nightmare...LOL. I was yelling at the screen for you not to do that... just like watching your favorite team on TV do stuff that was sooooo very wrong.
If you got the $$$ having one for each caliber is the easiest way to go.
LOL... I was literally yelling at the computer also. The whole video was agonizing. I wished I could jump through the screen and helped him out. I could feel his frustration building along with mine.
I’ve had a giruad, rcbs 3 way and a Henderson trimmer. Sold the giruad and Henderson because the cost/ease of use with the rcbs are huge comparatively speaking. I’d like to say I won’t be straying from the 3 way again but you never know. Thanks for the video and time to make it!
What is the fastest trimmer for 200-400 at a time? I like to prep large batches. Been looking at the Henderson.
@@jturner5227 I too trim in high volumes and still prefer the rcbs 3 way.
@@jturner5227 Little Crow Gunworks World's Finest Trimmer.
@@nt_wicked_bunch2717 thanks
@@luvtahandload7692 the little crows are nice but they don’t chamfer and debur last I checked
This is a must buy for me. It will save me a ton of time.
I heard this trimmer head will fit in the Hornady Cam Lock case trimmer, any idea if that's true?
Great video, trimming is the most disliked part of reloading. I have trashed a bunch of cases.
It’s takes a little to get set up but when you do it’s a blast to use
LOL... thanks for the video. I now know something I DON'T need in my life :D
Do you have any recommendations on a camera for a beginner for streaming. That's good great quality
Greener reloader here Johnny! Love your channel.
Now, I know that knife edge = bad, but can the edge be fixed via wet tumble with the southern shine media/pins? Normally after re-sizing I'd wet tumble to rid the cases of sizing lube. Recently, I've purposefully delayed wet tumble immediately after sizing & have gone straight to trimming, chamfering & debur so that I could use the benefits of the media in the wet tumble to smooth out any burrs or knife edges I may have missed. I haven't used my bore scope to verify if this actually happens or not. What do you think of my theory Johnny? Not sure if the tumble is doing that or not. Got me thinking now!
Thanks for the upload man! Been looking at this gadget. Love my WFT a lot!
I find build up on the pilot from the inside of the case mouths has ruined one pilot for me and damaged inside of my case mouths . I polished a brand new one and haven't had a issue. Also after I started annealing I've noticed the brass gets transferred to the pilot so much it wouldn't fit in case mouth any more. Softer brass.... anyways after polished the spinning surface I haven't had a issue. U should see if there is a difference in inside case neck vs polished
A possible easy fix to this is to remove one cutter off the pilot. Since it's rotational, realistically only one cutter would be a requirement. So the removal of one and leaving three on would still do the job efficiently and leave plenty of room on an empty space to adjust the outside deburring blade. Just a thought.
An out of the box trim would have given a baseline to compare to your preferred settings.
I have the ,223 and .30 heads a Forstner Lock-n-Load trimmer with a power adapter (ala Dima Prok).
How to go about it the hard way. When all else fails read the directions. The pilot is designed to give a light inside chamfer installed from the factory. Also use a case that is trimmed and deburred and make light contact with the outside cutter.
Love the 36 grain in 223. 3500fps at 3400 ft elevation. Great prairie dog rounds.
Is this not how we learn? Lol At least you got it tuned in!
Johnny I think it makes sense to get a 30 and a 223 one it’s not hard but touchy which is worse. I got one that I got but haven’t used yet
I think an accurate depth measurement of the extension of the shaft on the side cutter would probably get extremely close for first try.
I have found chamfer and deburr manually then adjust the 3 way cuter to those cuts. In hand no need to put it on and take it off. You can get pretty close and fine tune from there.
Giraud triway trimmer all day every day.
I tried these with a powered trim pro 2. It destroyed the inside of my brasses necks because the pilot was too big.
Also, neither of the Trim pro 2s i went through cut flush because the pocket for the shell holders on the base was machines crooked on both units. They all got returned. They're also insanely slow cutting even if they did work.
All due respects , When you disassembled it that was you downfall. they are already kind of close. I have two ..one 6.5mm and one .223 REM. set up should have been a lot faster. I seen your issue and have been down that road once. I have a drill adapter on both my Trim Pro's and shaving catchers. Brass prep is not so tedious anymore . I use case gauges to see if the case has stretched enough to even be trimmed in the trim pro...I get a few I just hit by hand. Watch Ebay for used trim pro's. the older models with the shell holders line up the case better than the new universal. I payed $70 for my last Trim Pro.
Overall, I don't think it's a bad design but it could use some needed improvements especially around the outside chamfer. A D shape hole to orient and guide the cutter plus a deeper thru slot in the cutter body would make a world of difference. I realize it would has a little cost but keep in mind most of these operations are CNC so the cost would be low.
Awesome review!
This seems like a lot more work than getting that new one from Lee that is electric for $500.
I have had one for years
It’s not to bad to do adjustments
With that being said I would buy
For the calibers that you trim a lot
What’s the link for Johnny’s homestead channel?
I have this and about 6 different sizes. I have had no need to make adjustments except on the outside case cutter. I just throw a different pilot in it and it cuts to the same debth.
Would like to bring your attention to the Giraud Tri-Way Trimmer. Works really well and is far superior to the Frankford Arsenal system that also works with a drill.
It's a nice system but like everything else you need to make a decision about what system you want to go for but as we all know you end up with many different systems too do the same job, I have the redding and rcbs and hornady system but I keep coming back to the Lee system and I use the lyman brass center and I have the Lee in it
I wonder if the threads in the rcbs trimmer are the same as the Lyman trimmer. I am fairly certain the pilots are different shank size but unsure on the tool head thread. I don’t have a carbide cutter but I do need one. My regular one is about worn out.
I like RCBS. They make some great tools and have really good customer service, but as far as this tool is concerned, they can keep it. I’ll continue to use my L.E. Wilson case trimmer and chamfer and de-burr on my Lyman Case Prep Center. It’s a lot faster. I think RCBS is trying emulate what the Henderson Precision Case Trimmer does, but on the cheap. The Henderson unit is about $800 and motorized and is meant for professional shooters who shoot in volume.
Yep, LE Wilson trimmer is the most precise trimmer I’ve used this far and one of the only ones that cuts truly square.
Good idea, but setup seems to be a pain. Seems to be a good reason to own a case prep center instead.
I have one for a 22 and 30 I’m happy with them make case press faster.
Are you going to mess with 8.6 blk soon?
You can use calipers to measure small moves on the ID champher.
That looks like a pain in the butt compared to the Lee deluxe power trim.
Looks intresting but i been using worlds finest trimmer with rcbs deburing station. Easy fast and consistent.
Thanks for showing what's available Johnny. I do have a question for you. Have you ever had reloading data that stipulated barrel twist rate?
I ask because I recently loaded up some Grendal, the recipe showed the test barrel had a 1:10 twist. Fortunately I didn't blow my face off. My barrel has a 1:8 twist and I didn't notice the difference until after the range session. The handloads were running about 150 fps faster than projected in the load data. Fortunately because I've watched a lot of your videos I knew what to look for on pressure signs. Thanks for all you've taught a lot of us.
Edit to add: there were pressure signs from the first load to the last load I shot.
Some barrels are just faster then others, as long as you didn't have pressure signs I wouldn't worry. Twist shouldn't matter unless your shooting at the very top end of pressure, more then is safe in an AR anyway, think like guys loading for bolt guns pushing to the limit of the brass.
@@williambell7763 that's just it, I did have pressure signs from these loads. To date, my hand loads are usually slower than published data with no pressure signs. These are the first loads I've had pressure signs with. All loads were below max charge, the starting charge was about 150 fps faster than published and had ejector smear with primer cratering. Thank you for your response.
@@GB-zi6qr if it has pressure signs I'd be willing to bet the powder lot was hotter or something like that. Lots of things could have caused it. Good on catching it, and not blowing your face off
I use the LE Wilson trimmer and it works great. Thanks for this (and all your) video(s).
Why don't you use the wft? I used to use the same ribs but switched to the wft except wildcats.
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I keep 5 different ones on the shelf all setup, so all I have to do is unscrew one and replace it set the Depth all works...
The fastest way to set them up is prep one case by hand then shove it the cutter and adjust all the blades so that they touch the already chamfered and debured case
baaaa-phoooooie.....too much work.....
The outside adjustment is binding because your loosened the set screw too much. Just loosen it enough that it’s no locking the cutter and it makes it way more smooth coming out……
Just spent 30 minutes watching a video about a product I will never buy. But super funny.
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Brilliant, thank you.
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I just checked and that is the international code, sorry to be so dumb.
“I should have just stopped and looked a little bit harder.
Said many mechanic, machinists, reloaders and fabricators.
Still one of the tried and true cutters.
Observations: 1) May be some OCD at work here 😅. 2) I use the 5-station Lyman case prep center; it fer sure has a learning curve too, as how long & how hard you press (holding each case by hand) effects the trim ALOT (less is better). 3) I expect the VLD inside cutter to produce better (much better) results with the RCBS tool based on using the Lyman VLD cutter on their case prep station. To me, the inside bevel produced by the standard RCBS cutter is far too shallow. Flat base _and_ boat-tail bullets center & seat easier (and likely with less runout) in the steeper chamfer the VLD cutter creates. 4) Ima bet the steeper inside cut makes it easier to adjust cos smaller adjustments should have a more visible change. I straight up wouldn't use the standard inside RCBS cutter. Too finicky and far too little bevel to guide any shape of bullet heel into the case.
5) FLITZ IS YOUR FRIEND. I use the green, kinda thick liquid version (in a bottle rather than the tube) to polish the inside of sizing dies, decapping stems / sizing buttons on both full length & neck sizing dies & the collet surfaces of Lee FCD dies. The increase in smoothness of operation, reduced marking of case bodies and straightness of necks after sizing are significant.
With the RCBS trimmer, I'd chuck the pilot stem in a drill and polish the transition between the angled front portion that guides the case onto the pilot and the straight portion supporting the neck when the mouth has reached the cutter. Should be possible to smooth the straight portion just enough that it doesn't mark or scuff the inside of the case neck - making it easier to see the bottom edge of the chamfer & judge when it's 'enough.' And maybe to cause fewer scratches on bullets (from burrs / scuffs inside case necks) during seating.
Thanks for showing us how difficult to adjust are these 3-way trimmers. After watching the vid it's easy to see how having one for each caliber size is better.
Add a long loop of paracord to the lever as a foot pedal to keep both hands free
Thanks, Shannon 😁
Reloading manufacturers need to send you these new tools before they release them to market!
Any ideas on where 6mm ARC brass is? its impossable on line.
*impossible*
I built a 6 ARC just in time for the last piece of brass to be sold to someone else. I haven't seen it anywhere.
I use this all the time on my RCBS power trimmer . I have to hold the brass case or it just rips the brass out and destroys it . I still end up chamfering on the prep center anyway so I can't say it's worth all the trouble . It also seems RCBS quality has gone down hill over the last 10 years , I've flat quit using their dies , Their customer service kinda sucky too .
I use the lyman set the depths and let it rip
To be honest, my rifles and reloads can out shoot me a lot of the time. I think I will work on my shooting.
Still enjoyed the video 👍
Excellent!!
so give us the Answer Up Front?? After suffering thrpugh all this, I am sure you have the process figured out> BEst Practices please???
If only they would have set it at the factory!
I think I'm just going to stay doing it it by hand.
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I have been looking at one of those for a while now and I'm glad I didn't get one. It looks like more work than it's worth. Trimming is bad enough as it is.
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