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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.พ. 2025
- 10 Myths about the US Airborne on DDay - June 6th 1944
With Paul Woodadge
Part of our DDay and Normandy Playlist
• DDay and the Battle of...
Also part of our Myths series
• WWII Myths - A series ...
We look at Leg Bags, Crickets, the DZs, warpaint and other aspects of the Airborne on DDay.
The Myths examined
1) The Leg Bag was crap
2) The Legend of the Cricket
Bonus - did it sound like the bolt action of a K98
3) The C47 Pilots of the Troop Carrier Command were inexperienced and performed badly
4) The gliders all crashed and lots of the occupants were killed
5) Everyone missed the DZs and was lost
6) 100s of paratroopers drowned
7) The 82nd Airborne Division was made up of combat veterans
8) John Steels got caught on the church tower in Ste Mere Eglise
9) Mohawks and War paint
10) The Airborne were ordered not to take POWs
Bonus myth - watch and find out!
The Leg Bags 10 Myths about the US Airborne on DDay - June 6th 1944
• Why Were D-Day Leg Bag...
The Cricket Book www.d-day-publ...
www.acmewhistl...
K98 Cricket Myth • Stupid Gun Myths - Epi...
Troop Carrier Cowboys? - A WWII Myths show
www.youtube.co...
Troop Carriers document
508pir.org/pdf_...
DDay in Sainte-Mère-Église - What really happened?
www.youtube.co...
The Flooded DZs • La Fière Floods - Norm...
The 82nd in Sicily • The 82nd Airborne in O...
The John Steele papers
media.library....
Was the Dirty Dozen based on a real story? A 12 Myths show
www.youtube.co...
The Secret Soldiers the US Was Afraid to Send to War (Filthy 13)
• The Secret Soldiers th...
Clip of US Paras applying war paint • Filthy Thirteen
Hague Convention for dealing with POWs
digital-common...
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Never apologize for being your own guest. You do a great job interviewing yourself and these shows are always appreciated.
This is why Proper Historians like Woody is much needed, he earnestly goes after the truth, keeping the truth in History is Paramount for there's far too many who would Love to change the past to suit their visions, and many attempts to do so.
One of Woodie’s best. He knows his Normandy and is equipped with the best facts for kiboshing myths. Wish it were longer.
Fantastic upload, I absolutely love myth-busting like this.
I love these “solo” types of videos. Nothing against any of your guests as they are all brilliant and full of so much information. I just really enjoy learning from you in particular.
Thanks very much
I really enjoy you're myth busters. It really entrances me. I could listen to them for hours. Thanks Woody.
I just caught up on this and how fantastic. Folks, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider supporting Paul, we need objective researchers to keep reviewing the "common knowledge" of the last 80 years.
Thanks Woody a brilliant myth busting presentation.With regard to the German POW’s, my only recollection is my late father, British 6th Airborne telling me two stories. The first, he was involved or possibly saw a few German soldiers captured being escorted prisoner, how many unknown the NCO in charge shot them and they rolled down a bank! Was it true was it a second hand account? Dad said he didn’t shot them and the NCO was from London and had lost many of his family in the Blitz. The second was in the Ardennes, dad said they were shown civilian men about 33 shot by the Germans ie the Bande massacre in Belgium and an officer said this is what we are fighting against I don’t expect any prisoners! I remember as a teenager ( around possibly early 1970’s ) pressing my dad on these two situations. Dad’s answer was I wasn’t involved with the German POW shooting.He wouldn’t say any more, as he was only about 24 on D- Day etc.I have often thought about this as dad was such a mild mannered person. However it was a different era and he was a young man. Like many WW2 veterans he spoke very little of the war, he came home from Palestine demobbed in 1946 having served 6 years. He never went back to France, never joined any veterans associations etc. He went back to work as a plasterer and after he died in 2000 I asked my mother did he have any problems readjusting to civilian life she said no. He was an avid WW2 history reader,his medals were still in the cardboard box they came in unpolished in a drawer! Now at the Merville battery museum, with some other items of his, this was done at mum’s request.
So good Paul. Thank you for doing it and interviewing yourself lol.
Another great show. I agree that when I was talking to 501st veterans, they were always squirreling extra ammunition away because they knew they would not be issued enough. They did not consider it as overloading but making sure you had enough to do the job. It also was used to light the damp coal in their stoves when they were tented out in Hamstead Park in Berkshire.
Sorry I can't become a regular supporter but have a beer on me. Great show
Thank you very much Douglas
Good show, thoroughly enjoyed it. The one thing I did pick up on was that the 61st TCG were one of the older more experienced Groups, and the 505th had the best drop in Normandy partly because their Troop Carriers were more experienced and partly because their pathfinders were actually on the correct zone, so the drop pattern did vary from good to not so good across the different units as a result.
Yes, I did think about going into that level of detail, but it would have been another 20 minutes, so I didn't
@@WW2TV - completely understand. 'Nuance' takes some explaining. Probably because it's 18th Century French...
I am becoming addicted to your show now Woody. Excellent stuff!
Fantastic show! Totally made my day, thanks Woody! :)
Glad to hear it!
Thanks for another great myth busting presentation!!
May i please sincerly say how much pleasure we get from these shows. We love to learn and this is the preeminent channel for ww2 learning. There's not a single other channel that excells more in creating a welcoming atmosphere of real comeraderie. Well worth the same price as a couple of coffees per week.
Well said Jim
Thank you for your support
A very interesting and enjoyable video Mr Woodage.
It appears to be a recurring theme in both the British and American Airbus sectors of men losing priceless supplies and other equipment that night.
An excellent presentation Woody
Regarding the location of a stick. If the C47 was travelling at 120 mph and their 16 men in the plane assuming a straight flight path and the men jump at a 1 second interval, the distance between the landing site of the first man and the last is approximately 800 metres
(120 mph x 1600)/ (60 minutes x 60 seconds) = 53 m the plane would travel between jumps.
I'm sure 1 second intervals were rare
Your expertise, effort, and the quality of your guests is worth every cent I humbly provide. There is a magic going on here. Thank you!
Really enjoyed this. Helped bust several myths I either assumed were true or was unsure about. Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
That was excellent Woody, thank you. Enjoy your beer!
Great presentation Woody. Really loved this myth busting presentation
Thank you kindly!
Two brilliant talks today...
Trooper Bear
Good one m8, enjoy the pint
I like these shows that you have been putting on yourself! Great job! I would still like you to get Marty in to do an in depth on Hemevez. Thanks for all your hard work on this channel!!!
As always a great show! I always learn new things when I watch your shows. I don't know how many conversations I've had with people of these same myths over the years and you did an outstanding job presenting the facts. I'm going back to Normandy again in September, and can't wait to go to other areas I haven't been to in my last couple of trips. Thanks again!
I did some low angle rope rescue work with the fire department; we had one person on a rope over a slope and three people up top could not pull them up the hill. So, I think someone pulling someone up by their parachute isn't very likely.
Fantastic video Paul!
Fantastic show Paul!!
This is amazing! Thank you Paul. As someone whom grew up watching A World at War, the Longest day and being a child when SPR came out in 98', this defenitly paints a better image and explains better the history of the paratroopers on DDay.
Seems some of the consultants/historians were storytelling or "cherry picking" certain life stories to make an interesting piece of historical media/ media (tv series, movies, documentary series) to seize the interest of the general public.
Bravo! Love the myth shows Woody! Thank you!
Great Great show Paul!!! I cant wait for the Caen one :D
Fascinating as always Woody and I learnt a great deal 👍
Superb myth busting Woody! Really enjoyed this one 👏🏻♠️🪖🦅
Another great myth-busting presentation, well done to you Woody!!! "Hollywood History" and historians with a less than rigorous agenda have given rise to a huge number of misconceptions about what happened in WW2, leading to lots of false narratives. All of which does a disservice to the servicemen who lost their lives and especially in the Normandy Invasion. Keep up the great work👍
Absolutely fantastic
A great way to encourage taking a look at the real truths behind the accepted myths. As most myths, there often is an element of truth behind them, but memories become blurred, the retelling of a story gets exaggerated, and sometimes people just want to believe them.
Great job Woody. You were on fire
Good one. Love the myth busters
Great show woody
Me again. My dad (1/507) fought in Normandy, the Bulge and Varsity. I asked him once when he thought his unit was the most effective. He said Normandy. Kind of goes along with what you are saying . No combat experience, but highly trained and perhaps more importantly, very cohesive having been together for a couple years. They lost a lot of good men and officers during Normandy - that takes a toll.
Great show. To quote one of your countrymen John Lennon "Just give me some truth" and one of mine, Sgt. Joe Friday "Just the facts, ma'me"
Great presentation
Waco (wah co) gliders were made by 14 companies, if memory serves, to include a piano company, expert in working/shaping thin woods.
"D-Day Assassins" is Woody's absolute favorite war movie it is Cinema Solid Gold
Fantastic stuff
This was a great show! I especially like the fact that you had slides and lots of data! While I’m in the middle of a love fest, I also really like the new show beginning that I saw on some shows recently. They are very professional! I can see that you are trying to improve e your brand.
On an another note relating to History Myths, I recently watched a show on the Imperial War Museum youtube channel. I was surprised that they used a lot of the age old myths on the subject. The show was called “The reason Germany failed on D-Day. The show implied that the germans only used MG42’s on June 6 and went into a long explanation about the weapon. They also mentioned Heinrich Severloh in the segment. They did say that his numbers were strongly contested, but why even bring him up? The also referred to Omaha Beach as “Bloody Omaha”, and said that Bradley was considering picking up the troops. I don’t know if he said that, but it was in the Longest Day movie, and it helped them make their point. When talking about DD tanks, they talked about the ones that sunk, but never really mentioned that most of them didn’t. Lastly they said that the airborne landings were “all over the place” and it took a day to get things sorted out. I was pulling a full Woody and ranting at my television! I always thought that the IWM was a reliable source for info, but this makes me wonder about other topics that they have on their channel. Thanks for listening to my rant!
I will have to seek that out, but it doesn't sound good
good effort Woody!!
Great show!
Another great one👍 Very interesting with “false memory”. I wonder how common that is in historical research and how many conclusions have been drawn from false memory😮
2 hrs? im sure worth every min but thats a commitment.
There isn't a gun to your head. Watch or don't watch
@@WW2TV i plan to in a few parts. my mind has turned to mush and i now have a short attention span
Great video and as a 101st Airborne re-enactor one that I found really interesting. About the DZ “A” landings where the paratroopers appear not to land in the DZ, I believe this is due to the pathfinders of the 502nd who were dropped in the wrong place and had to set up the DZ on St. Germain de Varreville. If I’m not wrong I think this village was slightly outside the DZ.
The Pathfinders for A did indeed land near the church yes
super great job former *2nd 319 trooper still keeping my clicker (it was a gift)
Great show
I think there is a HUGE difference between killing someone who is trying to surrender, and killing someone AFTER their surrender has been accepted.
Hi, Paul, I’m 80 years old so I remember the names of movie stars from The Longest Day era. Therefore my picky point. Sal Mineo’s last name was pronounced: mini-o. Always love your presentations.
Should have identified myself as American.
Another fine myth-busting show. On the topic of drowned paratroopers...thanks for putting a number on it (
My Father was in the 501st I Company stated his jump went flawless on D Day
Jumping at a few hundred feet at night under fire with all that kit.....no myths required here mate.✌️
I guess it’s Bastogne and the cool shoulder patch, but the 101st always seems to overshadow the 82nd, despite the longer WWII combat record of the 82nd.
Your myth-busting is another way you honor the men of the allied forces by bringing their stories to the light for examination. Thank you very much for all you do for the greatest generation. Montana,USA
A great presentation. I think the biggest insult to the C-47 pilots was the panicky, fat pilot with the high pitched voice in Band of Brothers.
I’m a history teacher and have a replica of a cricket. There’s a reason it’s on my desk and not at home in the hands of my six year old.
Hi Woody, I hope you enjoyed your beer as much as I enjoyed this show! Great work. Thanks a lot. Just a question about the shooting of German POW's. Do you know if the famous "What does, bitta, bitta, mean?"-scene in the Longest Day actually happened? Also in Saving Private Ryan there was this kind of similar scene.
I think it means
“Please Please”
The scene in the Longest Day film is not in the book I don't think. Possibly an addition by the screen writers?
Something I just remembered that may be how John Steele could have gotten down from the steeple. This is just my speculation I want to be clear. Last year I watched a period paratrooper training film on TH-cam. In one sequence a guy landed high up in a tree. To get down he pulled the ripcord on the reserve chute and let it fall to the ground. He then carefully got out of his harness and shimmied down to the ground. Anyway that’s my two cents. If I can find the film again I’ll share the link.
th-cam.com/video/dcomlNIBlIU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=qGRzaLyWnAEb6U7W
Fast forward to 14:30
Then why didn't he say so in the interviews?
@ True enough, which is why I just offer it as speculation.
Yep I know, thanks
A lot of authors always regurgitate the same old bollox from the previoys authers because they cant be arsed to search the real archieve records for the truth
-- Comment at ~13:20 -- Yes, 100% accent thickens in an emotional, stressful and fatigue situation!
-- Like and back to watching your program!
-- At ~26:50 it is a funny notion, that people thinking what it takes to fly aircraft, especially at night, and worst yet a cargo glider, have no slightest idea, that with poor training is impossible to survive. It takes hell-uve-a-lot training to fly in a broad day light(VFR flying), especially landing... And it takes even more training to fly at night(IFR). Night flying takes a lots of training, since you got not ground references, especially when flying over water, where you got no reference for a horizon. It is scary flying for those who don't have training. And if pilots in controls did not have training to fly instrumentals only(IFR) they only have "seconds to live" when they loose visual reference. Do the search for you only have "178 seconds to live" - it is based on scientific study of human nature of "laying 6th sense".
-- At ~28:05 the farther I watch, the more I fume about luck of pilot training myth... Just so you know!
-- At - 34:38 if glider(or any aircraft) is tail heavy, that means pilot's stick controls are too sensitive in pitch it will be apparent on take off, since glider will be what calls to be "Porpoising"(nose going up and down) in uncontrollable manner, usually due to pilots overcorrection, and that will also affect towing aircraft as well. And if its not that much of the tail heavy, pilot can as someone to move towards the nose of aircraft to balance it up. There are could be other problems with landing - like striking objects on the ground, or too heavy of wing loading, and higher landing speed, and yes, you only got once chance to land, since there are no "TO/GA"( Take Off and Go Around) on gliders, and I'm sure on any other aircraft back in those days.
At 21 out of 850 gliders remark... Gliders did better, than B-17 bombers in 1943 day time bombing. The other interesting point is a perception from pilot point of view... Some bombers pilots though it was by far more dangerous to fly single engine fighter aircraft over Germany, while fighter pilots thought its a lot more dangerous to fly bombers, that is why they need fighter aircraft to escort bombers.
-- At 46:50 great frigging points - its like watching "Band of Brothers" again.
I blame The Longest Day for the emphasis on the airborne being scattered all over and being a failure. Even as a teen I thought the portrayal of the airborne from The Longest Day was illogical - ALL of the paratroopers were scattered all over and had no idea where they were but then Sainte-Mere-Eglise was taken before dawn......
More on Crickets: have you seen this quote from the book, “Lions of Carentan, Falschirmjager regiment 6. 19443-1945?” From pg 91, quoting one of the fsj:
“The Americans were equipped with small metal frogs for their nighttime attack. The idea was that they would communicate through this clicking and be able to recognize each other. AT night, sounds carry especially far, and therefore this idea that the Americans had, to communicate in the dark with these children’s toys, wasn’t very intelligent. If they really had ribbited like a frog, no one in the swamps would have noticed it, but the sound of these metallic clickers was so clearly unnatural, that one would have had to been deaf not to notice it.”
Yes it's a good book
@@WW2TV Re the cricket Kar98 scene in BotB: given the above, I could see a trooper using his cricket a little too much, a German soldier recognizing it as man made and getting a lucky shot off at the source o fteh noise, then rumors taking over unti it ends up like in the movie.
Yes that makes sense, but you just don't read accounts of them being used much
Regarding length; Drach does 6-7 hours sometimes.
The biggest phoney in the longest day was John Wayne.
He said she said. What do we know, the mushroom song... finishing "Kept in the Dark and fed on sh1t"... Some lads start rumours for a laugh, and then you eventually hear it as fact. Rumours are a recognised problem, especially if individuals become separated from their unit, or if you have been despatched to support a Company or battalion, and when you get there, they have moved out. Once Exercises Crusader 80, Spearpoint 82 and Lionheart 84, to solve the problem at Divisional HQ they actually set up Rumour Control. I needed to use it before I even knew it existed. Our vehicle broke down, and the engine needed to be replaced 48 hours behind schedule, and we became free runners on the MSR... we reported to Div HQ, too busy for us, go to Rumour Control. They new the score, Unit Lasgered up, Officer from you unit hear awaiting orders, have a look round the car park. If he isn't there, come back. If he has his orders and has gone, I will have a copy by then. As well as "normal" things, they were their to kill rumors and false gossip.
Trooper Bear
Son, you're contradicting Hollywood who wrote the history, good luck with that! Des ex The Parachute Regiment.
We all do our best to counter the crap
RE: False memory. My father was with 507/82 and if I recall he mentioned using a cricket once, so I found your comment interesting. I get false memories (I was in law enforcement). Is it possible that the 507th had different equipment from the rest of the 82nd as they were only an "attachment?" For example, in Gavin's book he mentions the 507th covered up those officer/NCO stripes on the back of their helmets, when no one else did. of coursee Gavin also said something about 'picking it from the Pacific' (I don't have book in front of me), which makes no sense as the 507th was nowhere near the Pacific.
The 507th definitely didn't get issued with crickets, though it is possible your father acquired one at some point
@@WW2TV Likely a false memory I suppose; like you said, we all get them. I have heard, and read his story on how he ended up a Timmes' orchard many times. And only once did he mention crickets (Incidentally how he ended up with Timmes is in both Ambrose's book on DDay and Nordyke's book on the 82nd)
Ian McCullom would be a good one for gun myths...
Do you mean Gun Jesus?
@localbod who else?
@jvleasure I wasn't sure of the spelling of his surname and was just clarifying.
In my opinion Forgotten Weapons and Royal Armouries are the two best YT channels specifically about small arms.
@localbod totally agreed! Didn't mean anything rude with my reply btw.
I am afraid I suspect the killing of men trying to surrender, or already prisoners, was more common than any of us would like to believe. Nor do I think most NCOs and officers would have been too scrupulous in reporting such events with the objective of getting their men prosecuted.
Globally in WWII possibly, but I'm pretty certain it was uncommon in Normandy
@@WW2TV I've certainly heard from 2 British veterans who stated that they systemically killed POWs, albeit one was in a Reccy unit and stated this was done only when prisoners could not be processed and only after a prisoner had concealed a weapon and had killed a friend. The second veteran even got a Mention in Despatches for killing POWs when his officer lied to cover up the matter and falsely stated that one of the prisoners had fired upon them. I know the second veteran was haunted his whole life for that episode. I too would say that it is far more common that what we'd ever acknowledge, I also strongly believe that no moral judgement should be made by those, like myself, who have never been under fire on a battlefield.
Yes I agree with you that it happened, but often like you stated as a specific reaction to something like the POW having a concealed weapon that killed a friend. The fact remains that it was never "policy" by the Allies and as a result of orders
@WW2TV How do you explain the sections in "Gavin At War" where he states the 82nd were issuing crickets for the jump into Sicily? It's on page 74. If they were in use enough for the 101st to use them in Normandy, then the 82nd would have still been issuing them.
Also, all of your reports saying the C-47 pilots did a great job were from the 82nd, mostly about the 505th. 9th transport were the veteran crews that had transported the 82nd in the Mediterranean, and had trained extensively with the pathfinders there. Gavin and Ridgeway insisted they be brought to England to continue flying them. The 101st was not transported by the 9th, they had another, rookie group, which is the source of the statements regarding the failure to drop troops where they were supposed to be.
I could have used some of the reports the 101st said about the Troop Carriers too, because they are also positive. As I said in the video, was the 101st jump actually bad? DZ C and DZ D were pretty damn accurate. The units dropping the 502nd had more problems on A.
The comment about crickets in Sicily is wrong. No-one had them for Husky. Or if they did it was a tiny number of men as a personal initiative. In On to Berlin, Gavin's autobiography there is no mention of crickets
@@WW2TV It would have been good to show those as well. From my research, the 505th had the best drops due to having truly veteran transport crews. The 506 and 507 had the worst, for a variety of reasons, but does include several instances where the pilots panicked for the 506. For the 507th, I believe it was mostly due to the pathfinder teams being unable to set up their equipment according to the plan.
Because I was linking to the specific myths show about Troop Carriers with Adam Berry I did not want to spend too long on documentation. I would disagree about the 506th and their pilots panicking. Have you read Into the valley: The untold story of USAAF Troop Carrier in World War II, from North Africa through Europe by Charles Young. The very same E/506th veterans gave very different accounts for that book than when they did the BoB interviews. I have a sneaking suspicion they were asked question for the series in such a way as to poke at the pilots
@@WW2TV I'll admit my research into the pilots for the 101 is not as in depth as my knowledge for the 82nd. However, when addressing a "myth" you really should have discussed the actual sources of the myth, and provided direct references to disprove it, instead of focusing on the group that was not the source.
lol. Brings up The Hague convention. What a joke. It’s war.
What's your point? The Allies absolutely did follow the Hague convention as policy. How could they not? The Allies were fighting the cruellest forces the world has ever seen, but had to do so in a legal way
Cricket myth- made in Birmingham UK, the company still exists and makes whistles for referees, police and officers WW1 trench whistles. I have read that some British paras had them issued?
The noise of the crickets by a group of school kids is enough to drive you barmy!!!!😂
I think it's possible a few British paras had them in advance of D-Day and maybe used them on the day
In regards to no prisoners. They may not have been expressly ordered to not take prisoners but it was certainly acted out to some degree when in combat. There are cases during the war where prisoners were few and far between either due to "orders" or due to enemy ideology.
For example US Marines took very few prisoners, part of this was just Japanese ideology and fighting the the death but there are accounts of no quarter being given. E.B Sledge takes a small bit about how they view Japanese prisoners during his time on Peleliu and Okinawa.
Either way good work, it was an enjoyable video. I learned some interesting things. Keep it up.
Side note. 82nd Div is best Div lol. At least they still jump.
The PTO was a very different environment, of course, and as I said, there were incidents in Normandy. But I was debunking the often reported notion that the paras were ordered not to take POWs
@@WW2TV Of course. And I didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing with you. Just posting for discussions sake.
Just discovered your channel but I've definitely learned a few things. Keep up the good work.
No worries. Enjoy watching
In this Burma video there is great footage of gliders landing which shows just how sturdy they really are, it's at approx 39:38 in the linked video th-cam.com/video/t7UhfMLtAWA/w-d-xo.html
Everytime I hear Ambrose's name nowadays it's to debunk some bs he has spun in the past. I'm not sure I should be happy that this is all being corrected or feel bad because I get angrier and more frustrated with the man each time.
Regarding experience -- some is good, too much not so good. The lines between honed and tired and green have a little fudge factor.
Look at the 1st Marines in the Pacific: honed at Guadalcanal and Cape Gloucester, only to be bludgeoned at Peleliu, and brought back at Okinawa as a mainly green division. Unit history doesn't mean much in the mud and the muck.
As for war crimes, they happened everywhere on all sides ... less so I think in ETO than the eastern front or the PTO. Germans were shittier in France; Russians, Japanese, and USMC were in their own theaters just as shitty. It's what war does to people.
Hey Paul, you made it. I saw a LEGO figure of you today.
All myths are myths
About killing PoWs, in Wehrmacht and Waffen SS it wasnt systemic, because nazis captured so many PoWs and used it for propaganda. In Normady 1944 its was extremely LOW number of PoW killed, like 140+ and most of them Canadians who were known to be wild. Germans knew they killed some of their PoWs well. There was plenty of German PoW to be killed by allied soldiers and FFI, civilians. So many went missing and nobody investigated their disappearence at all. French were known to kill Germans at sight in the battle of France, not talking after. I am not sure about your statement that killing Germn PoW was something like unheard of, contrary to nazis. It wasn't simly like that in the West. Waffen SS knew about brutal orders in the East, so they used them fighting Banditen, FFI etc.
I have to disagree on most of that. It absolutely was systemic by the Third Reich in Normandy as elsewhere. Your numbers are way too low. We have 50-60 murders of American Paratroopers, maybe a dozen British Airborne, add a couple of hundred Resistance prisoners after June 6th, at least 300-350 Canadian and British POWs by the 12th SS. Then there are at least a dozen 29th Div POWs killed. That's just off the top of my head and we are at well over 400, not counting the French victims. Das Reich also commited some in July in Normandy, there are other cases too. Why the need to lower the figures? It suggests an amount of apologetics to me
The Generals commanding the US 82nd and 101st Airborne after they had been in action in Europe, both said this: 20% did the fighting, 60% were in rear areas away from the fighting, and the rest hid or tried to desert.
Citation needed. That's an absurd comment
Paul, you state that the majority of the US Airborne's objectives WERE taken?
Were they? I'd challenge that...
Lets have a look at each battalion of each regiment - what objectives were assigned and what were successfully taken? I'd say if we looked at each specific objective we'd find less than half were actually achieved (certainly nothing west of the Merderet) and the majority of those that were secured, were only held with a fraction of the intended strength and largely due to a distinct lack of coordinated response from the enemy (mainly due to the resistance cutting coms).
Do I have a point?
This is something that has always fascinated me. Look at the example of Timmes - why the hell did those men hold up in an orchard rather than move against Cauquigny (where he sent, what was it, Levy's 17 men to take an objective assigned to a full battalion - why do that?).
As for John Steel - did you ever speak to Bob Murphy about this? I know you only met Bob and Jack Schlegel once or twice, I had the pleasure of spending many hours with Bob, Sully and co, albeit mainly in the pub - their take on it, was a real eye-opener, especially when you get them together with the locals. The wider Ste Mere Eglise 'ormeta' is another fascinating subject in itself and actually quite a dark and disappointing thing when you get a glimpse of what has happened in the town over the years in order to keep it at the forefront of the historical narrative. As you rightly say, there are so many other aspects that deserve equal focus (Timmes for example ;-) )
As for Ken Russell - didn't he land to the east side of the church? No tthat it matters, but if you now think not, what is it that made you change your mind?
Anyway, discussion is good - too much inherent myth - as one commentator in the side-bar stated, a myth busting episode focusing on 'Monty's failure at Caen' would be interesting?
I met Bob Murphy 2 or 3 times I think, albeit one was very brief. Jack Schelgel was different, I had written back and forth to him for years before I even moved to Normandy and probably spent several days with him in total. I never know what to think about Bob Murphy these days, I loved his book, but with all the questions raised about his actual service, I just don't know what to think any more. As for Ken Russell's version, I know for the last years I was guiding I was at the east, and yes I think I started on the west. I don't recall what caused me to move. It's like the guns at Brecourt being in a line or an L. I've changed back so many times I think I have lost count. I'm think I'm in a "L shape" configuration again right now.
So with regards to the Airborne objectives being taken, my opinion has definitely changed as I have moved from being a Normandy guy to a WWII guy. Now I am much better read about Mercury, Vyazma, Ladbroke, the Dnieper etc I cut the US Airborne on DDay much more slack. When you realise that around half of all big Airborne ops in WWII (Soviet, German, DUKE, US, Japanese etc) failed to achieve their objectives, and DDay worked and worked well it changed my opinion. Like you I have/had big questions about Cauquigny, Hill 30, why the 101st split two Regiments over 2 DZs, the obsession with the Wooden Bridges etc etc. BUT at the end of the day the jumps did exactly what they were supposed to do - allow the landings on Utah to take place without much of a German response, to eliminate the majority of garrisons and guns within that area and open up routes west. It also depends whether you count the primary and secondary objectives. IIRC correctly some of the stuff west of the Merderet was secondary, although I may be wrong on this.
As for the John Steele story, as I said in the video, I just don't think it makes sense - as the version told. Its not about the witnesses, I just cannot work out how he got down. If someone could fill in that blank for me, I could be swayed back to thinking it is true. But right now, my instinct tells me it didn't happen, again not in the way presented by most people.
I will do a Caen myth busting one, but I will need to do a shit ton of research, or do a panel discussion
I wouldn't read too much into the Bob Murphy service thing if I was you. I am one of very few people still alive to be party to the full story of the witch hunt against Bob Murphy. The man who initiated that scandal has no moral compass at all - he once quoted that I had pledged to seriously physically harm him. I admittedly did say some very angry things to him but only after serious provocation - he had asked me if I had performed a sex act on Bob Murphy? Completely out of the blue, during his very first contact with me, which he initiated, he asked me what Bob Murphy's penis tasted like! On reflection I can see he did this to provoke a response so he could quote my reply - thats the measure of the man who,unknown to many, was employed through the estate of a deceased individual to discredit Bob Murphy - so as I say, don't let such a despicable character sway your opinion of a remarkable veteran whose legacy deserves nothing but respect.
We know who we are talking about of course and I agree he has zero moral compass. I've had no contact with him for years and like you, I am on his hate list. BUT, and it pains me to say this, he has nearly always been proved correct - Bob Izumi for example. But I don't let myself get bothered by that shit any more. Bon Murphy's account like any of the other veteran memoirs has a place in the historiography. His book (two copies) remains on my shelf and won't be going anywhere
@@WW2TV thats good to hear - Murph was a fine man and doesn't deserve the shit throwing against him from somebody who actually waited to the week Murphy died to commence his vendetta - another cowardly act as he knew if Bob had been around to defend himself, the person in question would have had been sued into bankruptcy - Bob was a lovely fella but you really wouldn't want to cross him - he had the temper of his Irish ancestors.
Going back to the objectives, as we know the 507 and 508's objectives were all west of the Merderet. None of those objectives were secured in strength, most were not even attempted due to a lack of boots on the ground. Those where an American presence did materialise, this was by not by anything other than a handful of men, and even then, many of them taking the initiative at locations they were not originally supposed to be (Creek at Chef du Pont comes to mind). The only reason any American presence west of the Merderet lingered was because a stand off ensued, the enemy unable or unwilling to probe the strength of the force they were facing. Despite the majority of the 507 landing within 2/3 miles of the DZ, they were unable to head to their objectives because of the lack of access through the flooded marais between Le Port de Neuville au Plian and Fresville / Le Ham. This takes two whole regiments, one third of the entire Airborne force out of the battle. I would argue this was as a direct consequence of the misdrop, not as already mentioned due to Troop Carrier, more to do with the weather conditions. Moving on to DZ A - were any objectives actually taken by the men allocated 'A' as their DZ? I know threats in that area did not materialise because allied bombardments had already silenced the batteries, I know Summers led the attack at XYZ, but putting aside objectives already taken out and other objectives downscaled and attacked again by ad-hoc very small groups at less than platoon size who only succeeded due to the enemy not fully committing, did the airborne take their objectives there?
In essence, I'd love to have a list of all primary objectives assigned to the men assigned DZs A, T and N, and actually look at each example in assessing if each objective was achieved, even attempted, and if not, why?
Thanks for the discussion, its good to keep the grey matter engaged in the off-season!
Take no prisoners was the orders given on eve june5
Which ronald speirs obeyed
To the letter!
No it wasn't an order. Did you even watch the video? Why make yourself look an idiot like this. IT ABSOLUTELY categorically was not an order
The airborne units didn't have the facilities to house surrendering germans
It was a vicious war after seeing many of their comrades
Shot while still.in their chutes
Would have angered many
And at night as well visibility
Lessened no doubt the orders
Were obeyed but maybe not.all
Did obey as my lai proved
Years later as many didn't
Shoot civilians but withheld
Their fire!
You're just showing us your lack of knowledge here. The Airborne divisions absolutely had means of dealing with POWs, there were MP units, interrogation and intelligence units and there were specific instructions given to take the POWs to areas where they could be held. I can promise you (once again) that no instructions were given to kill POWs. A few were despatched, but it was not an order. I humbly suggest you do some more reading on the subject - especially the AARs - many of which contain reports detailing how many POWs were taken and where.
Once the objectives were reached
The aggressive mood.probably
Changed and prisoners were
Taken.airborne soldiers are
Trained more aggressively
Than other.units
Hence the higher casualties
Kind of shock troops
Many drowned in the flooded
Fields not having the quick
Release chutes and weighed
Down with reserve chutes
As well
The british airborne had the
Quick release ones and no
Reserve!
You see, now I know you haven't actually watched the video. You're now repeating another myth I debunked about many men drowning. A few men drowned but no more than 60 or so