The New York Dolls gave us so much more than simply a band. They belong in the R&R Hall of Fame because of their music and their incredible countless influences
I met Johnny at Max's in Aug'79,a month later i walked into a gig at Clarke Uni in Worcester,Mass. with Johnny and Joe Strummer at my sides,wow I was a happy man at that moment.
Hi all. My name is Anders from Sweden. I am 57 yrs and I was listening to the dolls as a young guy. Years went and I moved to Stockholm. I was much in to music and played guitar, I went to most music events and one day in the early 80´s I was a regular guest at the "GARAGE" Ther I meet Billy Rat we had a fab night together, he was the baseplayer in Johnny Thunders Band. We started to hang out together and billy got together with a friend of mine ROSA KÖRBERG .... Tommy Körbergs sister. And I went on small Swedish tours with them just as a friend and for the party. And Johnny was a smashing gay on or off the drugs......he was a very very talanted musicman. He lived the life of a true rock´n roll musician. He tryed to get out of the drugs when he meet his Swedish girlfriend and his music died off a bit.....and as soon he was back on the drugs again his music started to come back to life again. But he died of CANCER not an overdose. His music will live for ever even that he is gone. Now his good friend Billy is gone aswell. I feel lucky to have been friends of these two ICONS in the world of music. REST IN PEACE YOU TWO.
Nice comment, Anders. Maybe you can edit this and change where you put "smashing gay" to "smashing guy." As it should've been written. We all know Johnny was no gay.
@@rollinstoned9816 So? Who cares? I only commented to say Johnny Thunders was not ghey. None of the NY Dolls were ghey. Billy Rath was not ghey, just a junkie, like Johnny.
He was in pain and self medicated to function plus methadone isnt a drug of choice and he was prescribed it. I feel sorry for him and he was a gentle vulnerable shy soul who certainly was a sweet guy who had a rough deal with the media vultures. Some of us are shy vulnerable suffer depression and dont fit in and struggle to be successful and have some hard knocks. Many cant understand or relate to that. We all have different views and goals and make up. I left school young didnt know what to do for a job and was vulnerable and not good at being a success and am a survivor. I had my share of ups and downs and got out of the uk to get away from my demons for a good while in india nepal and pakistan and lived in australia for over a year and switzerland over 6 years. Im still here at 57 and can relate totally to johnny.He was a hero to many of us who didnt fit in or were different and seemed very real cool and not full of shit like some musicians like elvis costello who a friend who was a guitarist told me was a judgemental prat stuck up his own arse.
Yeah I knew Johnny too. If anyone wants to hear stories about my good friend Johnny.... My address is 432 Grandview Ave Piscataway NJ. I take cash, checks or money orders.
The dolls didn't make it in the states cuz they weren't commercially viable, just awesome and innovative. If they had sucked like bieber they would've been huge
@@JESCO58 there was no heroin in the beginning and lots of rehearsing contrary to popular myth. the dolls really weren’t the drug band that their myth made them out to be. what went wrong is peoples homophobia and the record companies lack of support among other things. they sold out stadiums and sold hundreds of thousands of albums they did have commercial viability.
No one comes close to the electricity, excitement and pure joy Johnny brought to crowds throughout the 70s till his death. NYC club scene died with Johnny. Love you till the day I die.
I know this is a fucking insane idea,but I would have maybe liked to have seen some footage of Johnny Thunders,in the Johnny Thunders story.I don't understand people that consider two people pontificating on a subject to be compelling.
Look to the right on your monitor,and you'll find all the rare footage of lost Johnny you will ever need...God forbid people having a conversation for a few minutes.
@The170460you're so wrong! I challenge any guitar player to try and play "Pipeline" the way Johnny did. It can't be done! There's not a Jimmy Page, Al Dimeola, or Steve Vai out there who'd be able to do it.
Dee Dee got a random person calling his place, he picked up the phone and said hello. The person who rang asked hey is dee dee home? How hard is that to understand ?
The guy calling Dee Dee is Jerry Nolan, cause Jerry used to call Dee Dee all the time to go score, not exactly a secret. Dee dee let Jerry bring the song to the Heartbreakers cuz Johnny Ramone didn’t like it
Loved Johnny and many of his songs in their simplistic, heartfelt approach. And, loved his guitar playing- even wrecked. There was a lot of the spectacle/will he OD onstage stuff in his appeal. Many of his audience went to see if he would nod up there. But, if you're talking about vocal ability, song craft, hooks and overall band chops, Aerosmith is on a whole other level.
I actually know The Heartbreakers bassist, Billy Rath. Theres only him and one other guy alive who know everything. Somebody should be interviewing him.
I wrote "considered" & not by votes but by how influential an author is &/or becomes. If you consider that Burroughs invented the cut up system, coined neologisms like Heavy Metal or Interzone, that many famous musicians named themselves after terms he invented (from The Soft Machine to Steely Dan), was a sort of father-figure to Kerouac, Ginsberg, Corso, etc.. & also Lou Reed, Patti Smith, Richard Hell, etc.., wrote of things that have only just been invented, etc.. I'd say he fares pretty well
ok, she was the first person to write the original JT fanzine, she wrote the only biographies on JT, the new York dolls and the heartbreakers, shes traveled to the states was in the Arthur Kane movie helped with the Morrissey meltdown and was very close friends with Mr thunders from the early 80s, you should do your research shes a legend never seen any Americans do that much work about the man..shes published all over the world.. you should look her up before judging anything...
Hahahah! Well, let's say he was one of them. One of the others was Nabokov, and he wasn't even American. Their greatest works were considered borderline porn. Leave it to the good ol' USA to produce artists like this.
@TheRalphus666 .start talking. I listen. Turns out the bathroom water guy is Johnny Thunders. I mean I saw him in concert not 2 years ago at the old Ritz but up close? And kinda hanging with me?!! But I am not easily star struck. Johnny hung around The Pyramid for the next 3 weeks.Soon after he turns up dead. sad story. He was even telling Lazar to have the baby; all children need is love. He'd know; he said had 3 kids. I miss him sometimes.. I only knew him in NYC. Y r u asking aboutNewOrleans?
I may also add, its a comment page, it does not state anywhere it is a page for grammatical literal sentences. And I realized you meant the book, what the hell did you think..?
The Heartbreakers were so fuckin 'good.U know the Story : Smack kill ' em. Just like the Dolls.The problem was Thunder, but he was a genius too, same shit for Jerry Nolan 💖♠
I wish the New Orleans police released more details on this guy's death. Were there drugs still found in his room when the police got there? Because if the methadone supply (and any other drugs) he supposedly had was still there, then he wasn't robbed, as some say. Because no robbers leave behind drugs. They would have taken everything. Did he really have leukemia? The autopsy would have solid details on that other supposed cause of his death. Personally, I don't believe the wild conspiracies because the easiest theory to believe was that he simply overdosed. There's just no reason to go beyond that, to some wild murder conspiracy. But I wish more details were known and released by the New Orleans police, and local medical examiner that performed Johnny's autopsy.
I realize this was written a year ago, but I had to comment because, there is more to the story, & you can't blame friends or family for wanting to know what happened, especially if there are issues with his death. There were other things missing such as his passport & around $20,000. Why would they have taken the drugs when they had the money to get literally, anything they wanted. Especially if what was left behind, was something they may not have had interest in taking. My uncle was a friend to Johnny & a roadie for The Dolls, I grew up with their music. Not to mention, I had a cousin who kinda died in the same manner. There are & will always be questions unanswered in situations such as this. -Cheryl
"Hello welcome to Cherry Red Television, i am an untight supply teacher, do not try any funny business while i am here today as i will not put up with it, i also will not turn to the other camera when that light on the top of it tells me to"
seemed to keep you quiet? i hope i changed your mind, i was also going to add that JT had a much larger following in london at that time, an english manager too! oh and was signed to an english label.
My experiences with Heroïn were devastating. The drug that has both heaven and hell in its package. For me was it impossible to use H. every now & then. It's always and everyday. Even when you're on methadon.
and you have every right to be so precious over him,i just cant stand people shouting of when they clearly know dont know anything, he was a great artist and is very much missed over the water to, you have no need to apologise for your dipshits my god we have them in abundance as well,(we have david f'#;/'. beckham as a national treasure!) the world is full of them, i was just proud that jt shared his time with us and thanks to miss antonia hes more recognised to this day as well xx
Heroin addicts don't regulate themselves. The desire for the effect of the drug is the most powerful thing in their lives. Some people can live with it better than others and still function to some degree. Musicians on drugs don't play well. Johnny was no exception to this. This is my issue with most of the punk rock scene. It seems to mostly be a junkie genre.
with all due respect to Nina and her opinions, KISS were anything but safe. They (Peter Criss, Ace Frehley) had every bit the danger and probably more so than that of the Dolls....they were just a wee bit pre occupied and perhaps more street savvy. Remember, the code of the streets is to survive or be eaten by the wild. I hung around with Thunders when I was kid out here in Hollywood, Without doubt, the darkness was real and there was no denying that a very thick ora of desolation surrounded his presence...at that point in my young life it was almost contagious. KISS was and remains too overwhelming for the general population.
I dunno man I’d say Kiss were easier to digest for the masses than the dolls were simply because Kiss wore costumes yet the Dolls went onstage with the clothes they wore 24/7. Same with Aerosmith .
Tyler Mod maybe. But could you call him redundant when he still influences artists today especialy if you in this instance, compare him to Johnny Thunders?
@BobTheRecordGuy My point wasn't about being cool through drugs or rockstars' personas, only about the uselessness of the "war on drugs", the fact that people took them since the beginning of time, that all kinds of smart people used them (Marcus Aurelius & Otto Von Bismarck were addicts & they kept whole nations going, or Wilberforce, the English politician responsible for the end of the slave trade) & that it's possible to use opiates & have a productive life at the same time
Rightio, Talulah. Good taste is the main thing, and Cherry Red have that inabundance. Those vulgarians at MTV are very complicit in destroying pop music in the USA.
@kidcalabria : If someone has to do drugs to be cool then they aren't & never will be cool. "Johnny Thunders" -yeah, look at the video of him trying to teach little kids to sing the chorus of his song, chewing the inside of his cheeks out and scaring the hell out of them. Look for the interviews where JT told the truth- he wasn't one to preach but he let it be known that he didn't respect the people that tried to live the junkie life vicariously through his misery.
Wrong...backstage after a gig in SF, DJ told me (after learning of my Detroit heritage) the MC5 set the bar for the Dolls. No need to re-write history son.
She makes up way too many excuses for him. The idea that thunders achieved his potential is ludicrous. He admitted this himself. A musician of his calibre would have had a far richer legacy had he not become a huge heroin addict for most of his adult life. Everything in his life, sadly, took a back seat to his addiction. To suggest that he was in control of his life and that his artistic integrity wasn't greatly reduced by heroin is just not true. His best song being written at 19... just before his life spiralled out of control... is not a coincidence. He has left behind some cool music but we'll never know the true extent of his artistic prowess
The only great song he wrote before 19, which you are obviously referring too, is “You Can’t Put Your Arms Around A Memory”, his showpiece ballad. He wrote many of his greatest rock and roll songs later on in his early to mid-twenties like “Pirate Love”, “Born to Lose”, “Let Go”, and “I Wanna Be Loved”. “So Alone” on live at max is another fantastic ballad that is nearly as good as memory. And well into his late twenties he penned songs as good as anything he ever wrote like “In Cold Blood” and “Sad Vacation”. The problem wasn’t a lack of great songs, it was a falling out with major record labels. He didn’t have much of a reason to continue writing (though he still did occasionally like with “sad society” another great blues ballad) because major record labels no longer would give him much of a chance even though he sold much more than any indie artist that were his peers on the indie labels he was on after 1977. Indie labels after a big advance would rip him off and would never pay him royalties which he was trying to get at the time. And he did live up to his potential for the most part. Look at Guns N’ Roses, Jane’s addiction, Soundgarden, and Alice In Chains. How many great albums did they have? None of them had more than 2 or 3. Johnny thunders had 3 great albums (New York Dolls, LAMF, So Alone) and 2 good albums (Live at Max v.1&2, In Cold Blood double EP) worth of material. That’s about as much as many great rock artists that are more famous than him. It’s very rare that musicians are more prolific, Beatles and stones were exceptions.
@@smkxodnwbwkdns8369 yes I'm sure that's all correct. Like I said he left behind some cool music but that's in spite of his heroin addiction not because of it. Everything takes a back seat to heroin when you're an addict. As good as you think he was, he would have been alot better without heroin. He admits this himself in interviews
@@edwilliamson956 Where does he say he would of been “better” without heroin? I’m not familiar with him ever saying that and in fact even denying that. I think he said once in a documentary that he would of been rich and more successful without drugs, which is definitely true. After about 73” it’s clear that he didn’t do anything without shooting up. Walter Lure describes where being in the Heartbreakers, before band meetings/rehearsals/songwriting sessions/photo shoots/etc. they would shoot up first. Everything you do and are comes out in the music (and any art) when creating music. If he hadn’t done heroin, who knows if he would of wrote the same songs? Maybe they would of been the same just sound a little different. He might of wrote more songs but again, would they have been any good? They certainly wouldn’t of sounded the same as by LAMF and So Alone (including his performance of “You Can’t Out Your Arms Around a Memory”) heroin was a part of his performance and like any drug albums like “Dirt” by Alice In Chains and “Rocks” by Aerosmith, it adds a certain languid edge to it as well as greater emphasis on angst among other things. People tend to exaggerate how much music was made on heroin, though there are some, and if you play them successively there definitely is some aesthetic and sonic qualities in common that I believe is attributed to heroin. But for every Dirt there’s a million awful songs everyone forgets that were made on heroin. I don’t think drugs had much effect on his artistic output; Perhaps later. Sober he might of felt compelled to improve and expand as a guitarist instead of playing the same punk chuck berry licks. He did become a better singer late in life.
@@edwilliamson956 what about Sylvian sylvian, the other doll rhythm guitarist? He was never a junkie yet after writing a few interesting originals his best being “Trash” he would go on to write a lot of crap and then not so much at all. However hard to compare because it was evident that Johnny was so much more talented. And there’s many artists who have one good album and then do nothing that comes close to it. Johnny had 6 quality, good to great, albums in a row. That’s a lot of music for anyone sober or not.
I don't jive with downplaying Aerosmith's importance at all. They were a no bullshit rock band that worked their asses off. What the fuck is wrong with that? Not fashionable for ya?
I am intoxicated by this lagy - Don't know why, except her intelligence is so well hidden...or not filled with "obvious Bravado " as were an AWFUL lot of rock writers.
Sylvian said he noticed Johnny always having a bunch of girls around him when he hardly had any. So R&R is sex drugs and r&r, well Sylvain wanted some more choices, more is better when your that age. He asked Johnny into the band, Johnny didn't want to , he said, maybe in a few weeks. Few weeks gone, Syvain said Johnny what about the Band thing, Johnny said , answer me this How many strings on a bass Sylvain says 4, Johnny said how many strings on a guitar, Sylvain said 6, Johnny said, settled, 4 strings are better. Because he hadn't even played with them yet, although he had the fundamentals down. So Johnny started his R&R schooling on Bass. So Johnny the good kid finally found a mate and had 4 good kids himself, uh with a wife before he died at 38.
@kidcalabria Drugs suck, and people who think drugs are 'cool' suck. People that think drugs are 'cool' are what killed JT. William Burroughs was a waste. he wrote some books that critics like ans he spent most of his time doing NOTHING.. like every junkie, he was waiting...waiting...waiting... That's all junkies do, they rarely DO anything, and once they're into their addiction for real they do nothing positive. Sorry, been there, done that. Not necessary to do any drug to be real R&R.
Just because you turned into a procrastinating wreck who couldn't do anything don't start trying to put it out there that everyone was like you. If you got fucked up and did nothing that';s because that is who you are. Many heroin addicts are prolific in their art, not at all like the sad shit you say you became. X
drugs *are * cool. believing that didn't kill johnny; smack addiction did. most great artists of the last century used one drug or another, whether it was heroin, LSD, weed and/or alcohol. that's not necessarily a coincidence. music and drugs have had synergy for generations of music culture.
And whats so un-constructed about it may I ask, he who still failed to realize a huge spelling mistake in an authors name and who still cant pin point the mistakes mentioned, all I did was ponder it? No idiocy there just curiosity, I wasnt rude either.
I hope Nina's point about musicians as dandies will be heard by the legion of baggy pants/whiskers/woolly hat alt-rock dross. They're neither witty nor ornamental. They need help more than Johnny, for they have never lived.
It was in a different package not in line with expectations. Like a Warhol painting. They formed a sound not in a typical rock sense. It is always the outcasts that blaze a differing path that become the Pilgrims to a new land, the first to conquer then others see the merit, they fit, they follow. The Dolls and Johnny, they had no fans, they have fanatics.
miss did get there name from the dolls kiss was highly influenced by them especially thunders look at Paul if he didn't have the makeup everything else is pure thunders they kiss even dressed like them at first but they felt they was ripping them off so the did there kiss makeup the way we no n luv today
I luv JT-he is the best ever. Nina loves to portray JT as some super sensitive guy which really was not true. His autopsy report was always disputed but why is it so hard to believe that he just OD'd and then was robbed when he hit the floor? Especially with it being his first nite in New Orleans. I could see him walking around looking for dope. He was not shy or sensitive about asking for that. The pics were the best part of her first book, its a beautiful book.
well at least she can spell peoples names correctly! and all her info was from the horses mouth so to speak so i do wonder about these apparent mistakes??
@TheRalphus666 Yes, I hung out with him. I was 20 years old, working as a bartender at The Pyramid. The afternoon shifts were very very slow. One day this guy walks in and asks for water. just water. I give it to him. He disappears into the bathroom for a bit. i think nothing of it. Then my friend Lazar & her BF come in and sit down. She's drinking and crying that she has to have another abortion..that makes 6! She's upset. The bathroom guy comes back & he & Lazar and her BF
Music needs to be more human again, which, Blues depth, feeling of life put in artistic expression ..same as painting ..poetry.. which the modern person has lost ..therefore became a zombie. dead within.
Hate Aerosmith much? Sorry, but aerosmiths songs are much stronger. The dolls had clever and cool songs but there is a reason why they didn't go as far
We must remember Todd Rundgren formulated and designed the sound directives on the first album as producer. Also a one off the cuff isn't smart. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I don't think aerosmith were simple or 'less complex' at all ...they were better musicians than the Dolls No Doubt...and wrote better songs. Certainly did as many drugs. C ' Mon.. Areosmith????
You may state that the dolls were more sophisticated in concept but in musical sophistication, aerosmith were miles ahead of them and that could be an understatement.
It’s an insane shame....Thunders was great. Jetboy? C’mon.... it’s one of the best train wreck riffs ever. The truth is though is that JT was not a proficient guitar player. He looked cool, he played what he knew with gusto. I could play any Thunders riff within’ a year or two of playing, it was his ramshackle that rumbled it. Hahahaha hell his choice of guitar (les Paul T.V.) was because he’s was know as Johnny Blunders and it had one volume knob. It’s a shame I think when tragic folks like JT get poeticized and romanticized though. They led tragic lives. He was only really at about 30/50% after So Alone. He needed Nolan, he was demolished because he wasn’t to see his kids, he burned almost every bridge he had..... Smack doesn’t play. When he would be on methadone and off junk he acted like he was so people paid attention. That’s what’s sad. There’s nothing more sad than having to live up to an image, real or not. I always felt bad about that. He was a person and deserves to be seen as who he was...... a cool musician who payed in some awesome bands and a desperately sick man struggling for air in the face of public expectation. Poor guy ends of with leukemia and dying in a shitty hotel shaped like a horseshoe. That’s reality and that sucks. RIP Johnny Genzale. Be easy bro
Jetboy, yeah baby, but my fav. is Frankenstein. geesh, this song has stuck with me and I'll never dislike it from over play. If I need energy or am needing motivated, FRANKENSTEIN. JOHNNY WAS A TORMENTED PERSON, he had so much pain from his situations he fomented. He was the destructive force unto himself. Being so bombed he'd let his mouth just fly sometimes, he did not care. Confrontational, racial, it did not matter. So if there was someone involved with him dying it was him being ripped off but I bet his mouth didn't help. Being in ill health and bombed his mouth was stronger than his ability to fight his way through as he was no athlete.
Poor johnny got judged for being on heroin raather than his art. Its not right that people get judged and stereotyped. . If id been him I would have slaughtered those wankers in the press . They hounded Keith Richards too but h was brilliant and already the top rock and roll guitarist in the world. Keith and johnny were real icons and true stars that werent up their own arse.
“David Bowie is redundant now & Johnny Thunders is an Icon” ... haha oh my , what a silly girl ... Johnny Thunders was a tragic drug addict , a few good songs even more mediocre ... a glorified fantasy , more lame than great
@Tyler Mod love the first Dolls album 100% there are more great songs from The Dolls on their the last 3 albums by far just not a big fan of The Heartbreakers - Link Wray The Sonics The Stooges Pink Fairies Hawkwind Alex Harvey there’s a lot of Punk before Punk
Ms. Antonia, Mr. Bristow...concerning the late/great Johnny Thunders: what a classy, intelligent, hopeful interview you both did give. Kudos both.
I've actually had the chance to exchange words with Nina while doing research for my own writing, she's an absolute sweetheart.
The New York Dolls gave us so much more than simply a band.
They belong in the R&R Hall of Fame because of their music and their incredible countless influences
I met Johnny at Max's in Aug'79,a month later i walked into a gig at Clarke Uni in Worcester,Mass. with Johnny and Joe Strummer at my sides,wow I was a happy man at that moment.
I caught many of those 979 Max's shows....some were fantastic, some not so great, always entertaining and a great night out...
I'm from Worcester.
As a child I used to get travel sick on long car journey's, but I grew out of it...
Great job--thank you both! The Dolls are one of my favorite bands and their love for Johnny is really there in every show that they do now.
Hi all. My name is Anders from Sweden. I am 57 yrs and I was listening to the dolls as a young guy. Years went and I moved to Stockholm. I was much in to music and played guitar, I went to most music events and one day in the early 80´s I was a regular guest at the "GARAGE" Ther I meet Billy Rat we had a fab night together, he was the baseplayer in Johnny Thunders Band. We started to hang out together and billy got together with a friend of mine ROSA KÖRBERG .... Tommy Körbergs sister. And I went on small Swedish tours with them just as a friend and for the party. And Johnny was a smashing gay on or off the drugs......he was a very very talanted musicman. He lived the life of a true rock´n roll musician. He tryed to get out of the drugs when he meet his Swedish girlfriend and his music died off a bit.....and as soon he was back on the drugs again his music started to come back to life again. But he died of CANCER not an overdose. His music will live for ever even that he is gone. Now his good friend Billy is gone aswell. I feel lucky to have been friends of these two ICONS in the world of music.
REST IN PEACE YOU TWO.
Nice comment, Anders. Maybe you can edit this and change where you put "smashing gay" to "smashing guy." As it should've been written. We all know Johnny was no gay.
@@klausrain111 and the "baseplayer"...
@@rollinstoned9816 Whut?
@@klausrain111 he write baseplayer. Its bassplayer.
@@rollinstoned9816 So? Who cares? I only commented to say Johnny Thunders was not ghey. None of the NY Dolls were ghey. Billy Rath was not ghey, just a junkie, like Johnny.
Great interview for a great book, Nice one Nina and Matt
I met Johnny when he toured in Sydney Australia in the mid 80s with Glen Matlock whom I had met both of them Cool Guys Rip Johnny Thunders 👍👍💜💜🤘🤘
I saw that tour in Perth, Barry Jones on guitar, working hard..
He was in pain and self medicated to function plus methadone isnt a drug of choice and he was prescribed it. I feel sorry for him and he was a gentle vulnerable shy soul who certainly was a sweet guy who had a rough deal with the media vultures. Some of us are shy vulnerable suffer depression and dont fit in and struggle to be successful and have some hard knocks. Many cant understand or relate to that. We all have different views and goals and make up. I left school young didnt know what to do for a job and was vulnerable and not good at being a success and am a survivor. I had my share of ups and downs and got out of the uk to get away from my demons for a good while in india nepal and pakistan and lived in australia for over a year and switzerland over 6 years. Im still here at 57 and can relate totally to johnny.He was a hero to many of us who didnt fit in or were different and seemed very real cool and not full of shit like some musicians like elvis costello who a friend who was a guitarist told me was a judgemental prat stuck up his own arse.
Agree -Cheryl
Didn't know that about Elvis Costello. He was my hero as a teenager
You obviously know very little about him and even less about addiction. What a load of detritus...
Methadone is prescribed for heroin addiction. Ive been on it for 20 years. I believe Johnny was on it when he died.
Paul Stanley thought of the name KISS after hearing Peter Criss' previous bands name, which was called Lips.
such a serious interviewer...like a cold case interview at the station.
I knew Johnny and was one of the last people he talked to a week before his death. Contact me if you want any info on my Good Friend, Johnny.
Yeah I knew Johnny too. If anyone wants to hear stories about my good friend Johnny.... My address is 432 Grandview Ave Piscataway NJ. I take cash, checks or money orders.
Did U know him in New Orleans?
That last one was 4 Marie.
I’m going to be doing a TH-cam video on his life so could you send me as much information as possible please 🙏🏼 many thanks 😊 peace ☮️
Lol.
The dolls didn't make it in the states cuz they weren't commercially viable, just awesome and innovative. If they had sucked like bieber they would've been huge
Too much heroin, not enough practicing. By order of comparison, Johansen went on to learn how to sing and arguably has a successful career.
Hopeless junkies too unfortunately or iconically
@@jonb7934 Ironically
@@JESCO58 there was no heroin in the beginning and lots of rehearsing contrary to popular myth. the dolls really weren’t the drug band that their myth made them out to be. what went wrong is peoples homophobia and the record companies lack of support among other things. they sold out stadiums and sold hundreds of thousands of albums they did have commercial viability.
No way man the dolls...........were......where it was man,,,where was you??? Jive ass Turkey can't speak no jive nohow no ireee
Nina knows .. her books are worth it 100 % , just in case she isnt under your radar ..
No one comes close to the electricity, excitement and pure joy Johnny brought to crowds throughout the 70s till his death. NYC club scene died with Johnny. Love you till the day I die.
I know this is a fucking insane idea,but I would have maybe liked to have seen some footage of Johnny Thunders,in the Johnny Thunders story.I don't understand people that consider two people pontificating on a subject to be compelling.
Hear hear
Look to the right on your monitor,and you'll find all the rare footage of lost Johnny you will ever need...God forbid people having a conversation for a few minutes.
God forbid people having an opinion about it on their own own page
Elaine Shandro Good Point!
@@shanelevene4864 and a fucking pick in his arm.
"how bout a song johnny?"
Excellent
Thank you for this, brings back memories ...
@The170460you're so wrong! I challenge any guitar player to try and play "Pipeline" the way Johnny did. It can't be done! There's not a Jimmy Page, Al Dimeola, or Steve Vai out there who'd be able to do it.
dolls were well ahead of their time, they were so brave in their image and music they changed music
Johnny didn't write Chinese Rocks, Dee Dee did.
Half of New York wrote it! There are about 337 versions all with different verses. Why would Dee Dee write a verse about phoning himself?
Dee Dee got a random person calling his place, he picked up the phone and said hello. The person who rang asked hey is dee dee home? How hard is that to understand ?
The guy calling Dee Dee is Jerry Nolan, cause Jerry used to call Dee Dee all the time to go score, not exactly a secret. Dee dee let Jerry bring the song to the Heartbreakers cuz Johnny Ramone didn’t like it
They both wrote the first version together in a a skag drenched apartment
@@shanelevene4864
"Somebody called me on the phone
They said hey, is Dee Dee home"
Loved Johnny and many of his songs in their simplistic, heartfelt approach. And, loved his guitar playing- even wrecked. There was a lot of the spectacle/will he OD onstage stuff in his appeal. Many of his audience went to see if he would nod up there. But, if you're talking about vocal ability, song craft, hooks and overall band chops, Aerosmith is on a whole other level.
Aeroshmith is last of great ones.
I actually know The Heartbreakers bassist, Billy Rath. Theres only him and one other guy alive who know everything. Somebody should be interviewing him.
I wrote "considered" & not by votes but by how influential an author is &/or becomes. If you consider that Burroughs invented the cut up system, coined neologisms like Heavy Metal or Interzone, that many famous musicians named themselves after terms he invented (from The Soft Machine to Steely Dan), was a sort of father-figure to Kerouac, Ginsberg, Corso, etc.. & also Lou Reed, Patti Smith, Richard Hell, etc.., wrote of things that have only just been invented, etc.. I'd say he fares pretty well
She really finishes JT's bio with her book about Peter Perret. Read them both...
thank you so much!! x
I Love ErrorSmith! Joking. She has a beautiful accent and that is a great beret
ok, she was the first person to write the original JT fanzine, she wrote the only biographies on JT, the new York dolls and the heartbreakers, shes traveled to the states was in the Arthur Kane movie helped with the Morrissey meltdown and was very close friends with Mr thunders from the early 80s, you should do your research shes a legend never seen any Americans do that much work about the man..shes published all over the world.. you should look her up before judging anything...
I respect Nina. Her whole life has been dedicated to Johnny
Burroughs, greatest novelist of the second half of the 20th century?
Did I miss the vote?
Hahahah! Well, let's say he was one of them. One of the others was Nabokov, and he wasn't even American. Their greatest works were considered borderline porn. Leave it to the good ol' USA to produce artists like this.
yes he did and the gig, which was a collection of different bands headed by the dollies was called the morrisy meltdown!
Saw that documentary too
AH HELLO......Correct me if Im wrong WHEN DID AEROSMITH SING ABOUT THE VIETNAM WAR???¿
Shes talking about the Dolls there, mentioning alienation etc.
@TheRalphus666 .start talking. I listen. Turns out the bathroom water guy is Johnny Thunders. I mean I saw him in concert not 2 years ago at the old Ritz but up close? And kinda hanging with me?!! But I am not easily star struck. Johnny hung around The Pyramid for the next 3 weeks.Soon after he turns up dead. sad story. He was even telling Lazar to have the baby; all children need is love. He'd know; he said had 3 kids. I miss him sometimes.. I only knew him in NYC. Y r u asking aboutNewOrleans?
I may also add, its a comment page, it does not state anywhere it is a page for grammatical literal sentences. And I realized you meant the book, what the hell did you think..?
The Heartbreakers were so fuckin 'good.U know the Story : Smack kill ' em. Just like the Dolls.The problem was Thunder, but he was a genius too, same shit for Jerry Nolan 💖♠
Johnny Thunders is a fucking icon.
I wish the New Orleans police released more details on this guy's death. Were there drugs still found in his room when the police got there? Because if the methadone supply (and any other drugs) he supposedly had was still there, then he wasn't robbed, as some say. Because no robbers leave behind drugs. They would have taken everything. Did he really have leukemia? The autopsy would have solid details on that other supposed cause of his death. Personally, I don't believe the wild conspiracies because the easiest theory to believe was that he simply overdosed. There's just no reason to go beyond that, to some wild murder conspiracy. But I wish more details were known and released by the New Orleans police, and local medical examiner that performed Johnny's autopsy.
I realize this was written a year ago, but I had to comment because, there is more to the story, & you can't blame friends or family for wanting to know what happened, especially if there are issues with his death. There were other things missing such as his passport & around $20,000. Why would they have taken the drugs when they had the money to get literally, anything they wanted. Especially if what was left behind, was something they may not have had interest in taking. My uncle was a friend to Johnny & a roadie for The Dolls, I grew up with their music. Not to mention, I had a cousin who kinda died in the same manner. There are & will always be questions unanswered in situations such as this. -Cheryl
Late to the party here but the Autopsy findings are in the video Looking For Johnny (2014), towards the end.
Moz meltdown? didnt he have a hand in getting a reunion going??
@rnbsnemtp i know??? may i ask why that was my answer? it was almost a year ago i responded..
@NYDoll9 In New Orleans you talked to him??
She's cool.
"Hello welcome to Cherry Red Television, i am an untight supply teacher, do not try any funny business while i am here today as i will not put up with it, i also will not turn to the other camera when that light on the top of it tells me to"
seemed to keep you quiet? i hope i changed your mind, i was also going to add that JT had a much larger following in london at that time, an english manager too! oh and was signed to an english label.
I'm not. I am just happy to be here and do what ever I can for the team. 110% if god wills.
she never once glossed over, read her books and you'll find out before judging so harshly.
My experiences with Heroïn were devastating. The drug that has both heaven and hell in its package. For me was it impossible to use H. every now & then. It's always and everyday. Even when you're on methadon.
Johnny Thunders was the Dolls , shame they never got the " big break " they had some great songs .
Cherry Red is a record label and ditributor , before you was here..
Adidas boy talking about The Dolls 🤔
made up,kiss called themselves kiss after looking for a kiss,wrong.kiss were playing around the same time and even played on same show nights.
paul evans not t9 mention Kiss started in the 60s 😂
Jay S who mention kiss started in 60s?
paul evans my mistake, 73
Dolls started in 71
and you have every right to be so precious over him,i just cant stand people shouting of when they clearly know dont know anything, he was a great artist and is very much missed over the water to, you have no need to apologise for your dipshits my god we have them in abundance as well,(we have david f'#;/'. beckham as a national treasure!) the world is full of them, i was just proud that jt shared his time with us and thanks to miss antonia hes more recognised to this day as well xx
Heroin addicts don't regulate themselves. The desire for the effect of the drug is the most powerful thing in their lives. Some people can live with it better than others and still function to some degree. Musicians on drugs don't play well. Johnny was no exception to this. This is my issue with most of the punk rock scene. It seems to mostly be a junkie genre.
There's no need for comments on this interview.
with all due respect to Nina and her opinions, KISS were anything but safe. They (Peter Criss, Ace Frehley) had every bit the danger and probably more so than that of the Dolls....they were just a wee bit pre occupied and perhaps more street savvy. Remember, the code of the streets is to survive or be eaten by the wild. I hung around with Thunders when I was kid out here in Hollywood, Without doubt, the darkness was real and there was no denying that a very thick ora of desolation surrounded his presence...at that point in my young life it was almost contagious. KISS was and remains too overwhelming for the general population.
lol
I dunno man I’d say Kiss were easier to digest for the masses than the dolls were simply because Kiss wore costumes yet the Dolls went onstage with the clothes they wore 24/7. Same with Aerosmith .
YEAH all those great bands like, um... KISS and Motley Crue and uh... never mind.
Granny takes a trip.. was the place to get ya threads in nyc...
David Bowie redundant? Wanna think about that one again?
Tyler Mod maybe. But could you call him redundant when he still influences artists today especialy if you in this instance, compare him to Johnny Thunders?
@BobTheRecordGuy My point wasn't about being cool through drugs or rockstars' personas, only about the uselessness of the "war on drugs", the fact that people took them since the beginning of time, that all kinds of smart people used them (Marcus Aurelius & Otto Von Bismarck were addicts & they kept whole nations going, or Wilberforce, the English politician responsible for the end of the slave trade) & that it's possible to use opiates & have a productive life at the same time
Rightio, Talulah. Good taste is the main thing, and Cherry Red have that inabundance. Those vulgarians at MTV are very complicit in destroying pop music in the USA.
Kick out the jams :)
Wrong band.
@@rollinstoned9816 Johnny was a big MC5 fan.
@kidcalabria : If someone has to do drugs to be cool then they aren't & never will be cool. "Johnny Thunders" -yeah, look at the video of him trying to teach little kids to sing the chorus of his song, chewing the inside of his cheeks out and scaring the hell out of them. Look for the interviews where JT told the truth- he wasn't one to preach but he let it be known that he didn't respect the people that tried to live the junkie life vicariously through his misery.
I don't think he was doing it to be cool, tho he wasn't going to be apologetic about it.
@Babyhowdy233 I agree. Love her writing. JT forever.
Wrong...backstage after a gig in SF, DJ told me (after learning of my Detroit heritage) the MC5 set the bar for the Dolls. No need to re-write history son.
hurley tim MC5 is the spark
I interviewed Billy Rath about four months ago in SoundCheck Magazine...go check it out bitches!
Anyone with a clue and a paasion for The Real Heartbrearkers.knows tnat was VERY FUCKING SPECIAIL time. " it was a VERY SPECIAL TIME.
She makes up way too many excuses for him. The idea that thunders achieved his potential is ludicrous. He admitted this himself. A musician of his calibre would have had a far richer legacy had he not become a huge heroin addict for most of his adult life. Everything in his life, sadly, took a back seat to his addiction. To suggest that he was in control of his life and that his artistic integrity wasn't greatly reduced by heroin is just not true. His best song being written at 19... just before his life spiralled out of control... is not a coincidence. He has left behind some cool music but we'll never know the true extent of his artistic prowess
The only great song he wrote before 19, which you are obviously referring too, is “You Can’t Put Your Arms Around A Memory”, his showpiece ballad. He wrote many of his greatest rock and roll songs later on in his early to mid-twenties like “Pirate Love”, “Born to Lose”, “Let Go”, and “I Wanna Be Loved”. “So Alone” on live at max is another fantastic ballad that is nearly as good as memory. And well into his late twenties he penned songs as good as anything he ever wrote like “In Cold Blood” and “Sad Vacation”. The problem wasn’t a lack of great songs, it was a falling out with major record labels. He didn’t have much of a reason to continue writing (though he still did occasionally like with “sad society” another great blues ballad) because major record labels no longer would give him much of a chance even though he sold much more than any indie artist that were his peers on the indie labels he was on after 1977. Indie labels after a big advance would rip him off and would never pay him royalties which he was trying to get at the time.
And he did live up to his potential for the most part. Look at Guns N’ Roses, Jane’s addiction, Soundgarden, and Alice In Chains. How many great albums did they have? None of them had more than 2 or 3. Johnny thunders had 3 great albums (New York Dolls, LAMF, So Alone) and 2 good albums (Live at Max v.1&2, In Cold Blood double EP) worth of material. That’s about as much as many great rock artists that are more famous than him. It’s very rare that musicians are more prolific, Beatles and stones were exceptions.
@@smkxodnwbwkdns8369 yes I'm sure that's all correct. Like I said he left behind some cool music but that's in spite of his heroin addiction not because of it. Everything takes a back seat to heroin when you're an addict. As good as you think he was, he would have been alot better without heroin. He admits this himself in interviews
@@edwilliamson956 Where does he say he would of been “better” without heroin? I’m not familiar with him ever saying that and in fact even denying that. I think he said once in a documentary that he would of been rich and more successful without drugs, which is definitely true.
After about 73” it’s clear that he didn’t do anything without shooting up. Walter Lure describes where being in the Heartbreakers, before band meetings/rehearsals/songwriting sessions/photo shoots/etc. they would shoot up first.
Everything you do and are comes out in the music (and any art) when creating music. If he hadn’t done heroin, who knows if he would of wrote the same songs? Maybe they would of been the same just sound a little different. He might of wrote more songs but again, would they have been any good? They certainly wouldn’t of sounded the same as by LAMF and So Alone (including his performance of “You Can’t Out Your Arms Around a Memory”) heroin was a part of his performance and like any drug albums like “Dirt” by Alice In Chains and “Rocks” by Aerosmith, it adds a certain languid edge to it as well as greater emphasis on angst among other things. People tend to exaggerate how much music was made on heroin, though there are some, and if you play them successively there definitely is some aesthetic and sonic qualities in common that I believe is attributed to heroin. But for every Dirt there’s a million awful songs everyone forgets that were made on heroin.
I don’t think drugs had much effect on his artistic output; Perhaps later. Sober he might of felt compelled to improve and expand as a guitarist instead of playing the same punk chuck berry licks. He did become a better singer late in life.
@@smkxodnwbwkdns8369 " I dont think drugs had much effect on his artistic output " ..... okay
@@edwilliamson956 what about Sylvian sylvian, the other doll rhythm guitarist? He was never a junkie yet after writing a few interesting originals his best being “Trash” he would go on to write a lot of crap and then not so much at all. However hard to compare because it was evident that Johnny was so much more talented. And there’s many artists who have one good album and then do nothing that comes close to it. Johnny had 6 quality, good to great, albums in a row. That’s a lot of music for anyone sober or not.
noel fielding 28:10
I don't jive with downplaying Aerosmith's importance at all.
They were a no bullshit rock band that worked their asses off.
What the fuck is wrong with that? Not fashionable for ya?
I am intoxicated by this lagy - Don't know why, except her intelligence is so well hidden...or not filled with "obvious Bravado " as were an AWFUL lot of rock writers.
the original guitarist of the dolls in its infancy was lou rone and john played bass!...they were good kids
Sylvian said he noticed Johnny always having a bunch of girls around him when he hardly had any. So R&R is sex drugs and r&r, well Sylvain wanted some more choices, more is better when your that age. He asked Johnny into the band, Johnny didn't want to , he said, maybe in a few weeks. Few weeks gone, Syvain said Johnny what about the Band thing, Johnny said , answer me this How many strings on a bass Sylvain says 4, Johnny said how many strings on a guitar, Sylvain said 6, Johnny said, settled, 4 strings are better. Because he hadn't even played with them yet, although he had the fundamentals down. So Johnny started his R&R schooling on Bass. So Johnny the good kid finally found a mate and had 4 good kids himself, uh with a wife before he died at 38.
@kidcalabria Drugs suck, and people who think drugs are 'cool' suck. People that think drugs are 'cool' are what killed JT. William Burroughs was a waste. he wrote some books that critics like ans he spent most of his time doing NOTHING.. like every junkie, he was waiting...waiting...waiting... That's all junkies do, they rarely DO anything, and once they're into their addiction for real they do nothing positive. Sorry, been there, done that. Not necessary to do any drug to be real R&R.
Just because you turned into a procrastinating wreck who couldn't do anything don't start trying to put it out there that everyone was like you. If you got fucked up and did nothing that';s because that is who you are. Many heroin addicts are prolific in their art, not at all like the sad shit you say you became. X
drugs *are * cool.
believing that didn't kill johnny; smack addiction did.
most great artists of the last century used one drug or another, whether it was heroin, LSD, weed and/or alcohol.
that's not necessarily a coincidence. music and drugs have had synergy for generations of music culture.
@@mj.l
I dont think JT''s junk habit had anything to do with his death . Leukemia probably killed him.
He reminds me of Ali G, lol. Apart from that it was a Interesting interview.
well she's a ray of sunshine....
defensive and made every question a debate...,,
she should've stayed her ass in bed ,,,
You never seen an interview of a writer before?
he is still a legend tho
And whats so un-constructed about it may I ask, he who still failed to realize a huge spelling mistake in an authors name and who still cant pin point the mistakes mentioned, all I did was ponder it? No idiocy there just curiosity, I wasnt rude either.
She KNOWS who, and whow shit when down. .
Marc Bolan is the king of glam rock, not the dolls or bowie!!! that is a fact
Mickey Kravitz Yes,Facts are Based on Truth,Bias,and One's Personal Opinions!
TRex #1
The Spiders of Mars
the interview is not the host...forget about the host...just enjoy knowing more about Johnny and rock at that time.
I hope Nina's point about musicians as dandies will be heard by the legion of
baggy pants/whiskers/woolly hat alt-rock dross. They're neither witty nor ornamental. They need help more than Johnny, for they have never lived.
Dolls music is NOT more sophisticated, the lyrics might be, but its all about the music. Lyrics are secondary. Cobain thought so as well
Alan Lloyd Brilliant observation porkwaxer.
Alan Lloyd Ive always been the other way around, its the combination that always gets me. Like Cradle of Filth brilliant lyrics powerful music
Fucking dreadful then you know
It was in a different package not in line with expectations. Like a Warhol painting. They formed a sound not in a typical rock sense. It is always the outcasts that blaze a differing path that become the Pilgrims to a new land, the first to conquer then others see the merit, they fit, they follow. The Dolls and Johnny, they had no fans, they have fanatics.
miss did get there name from the dolls kiss was highly influenced by them especially thunders look at Paul if he didn't have the makeup everything else is pure thunders they kiss even dressed like them at first but they felt they was ripping them off so the did there kiss makeup the way we no n luv today
I luv JT-he is the best ever. Nina loves to portray JT as some super sensitive guy which really was not true. His autopsy report was always disputed but why is it so hard to believe that he just OD'd and then was robbed when he hit the floor? Especially with it being his first nite in New Orleans. I could see him walking around looking for dope. He was not shy or sensitive about asking for that. The pics were the best part of her first book, its a beautiful book.
mark so he was set up and murdered
Nobody is just one dimensional- Thunders could be both shy and quiet and then obnoxious other times .
well at least she can spell peoples names correctly! and all her info was from the horses mouth so to speak so i do wonder about these apparent mistakes??
@TheRalphus666
Yes, I hung out with him. I was 20 years old, working as a bartender at The Pyramid. The afternoon shifts were very very slow. One day this guy walks in and asks for water. just water. I give it to him. He disappears into the bathroom for a bit. i think nothing of it. Then my friend Lazar & her BF come in and sit down. She's drinking and crying that she has to have another abortion..that makes 6! She's upset. The bathroom guy comes back & he & Lazar and her BF
The water was to cook up a fix. We do that or draw it straight out the cistern.
Music needs to be more human again, which, Blues depth, feeling of life put in artistic expression ..same as painting ..poetry.. which the modern person has lost ..therefore became a zombie. dead within.
Hate Aerosmith much? Sorry, but aerosmiths songs are much stronger. The dolls had clever and cool songs but there is a reason why they didn't go as far
Alan Lloyd WRONG!!!
Aerosmith was more talented
honestly, The Dolls built their set predominately from cover tunes.
fuck off, aerosmith are shit
We must remember Todd Rundgren formulated and designed the sound directives on the first album as producer. Also a one off the cuff isn't smart. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I don't think aerosmith were simple or 'less complex' at all ...they were better musicians than the Dolls No Doubt...and wrote better songs. Certainly did as many drugs. C ' Mon.. Areosmith????
You may state that the dolls were more sophisticated in concept but in musical sophistication, aerosmith were miles ahead of them and that could be an understatement.
Don't kid yourself, booster.
Aerosmith would not have become who they are if not for the New York Dolls. You can say that about countless bands
Oh dear, this could have been so much better… what a squandered opportunity 🙄
He wrote a few good songs but he wasn’t as great as this author makes him out to be. Unfortunately he was a junkie and that was his downfall.
Thunders murdered by a vicious gang in New Orleans U.S.A.
It’s an insane shame....Thunders was great. Jetboy? C’mon.... it’s one of the best train wreck riffs ever. The truth is though is that JT was not a proficient guitar player. He looked cool, he played what he knew with gusto. I could play any Thunders riff within’ a year or two of playing, it was his ramshackle that rumbled it. Hahahaha hell his choice of guitar (les Paul T.V.) was because he’s was know as Johnny Blunders and it had one volume knob. It’s a shame I think when tragic folks like JT get poeticized and romanticized though. They led tragic lives. He was only really at about 30/50% after So Alone. He needed Nolan, he was demolished because he wasn’t to see his kids, he burned almost every bridge he had..... Smack doesn’t play. When he would be on methadone and off junk he acted like he was so people paid attention. That’s what’s sad. There’s nothing more sad than having to live up to an image, real or not. I always felt bad about that. He was a person and deserves to be seen as who he was...... a cool musician who payed in some awesome bands and a desperately sick man struggling for air in the face of public expectation. Poor guy ends of with leukemia and dying in a shitty hotel shaped like a horseshoe. That’s reality and that sucks. RIP Johnny Genzale. Be easy bro
maybe u can play the same riffs as him but you will never sound like him.
Jetboy, yeah baby, but my fav. is Frankenstein. geesh, this song has stuck with me and I'll never dislike it from over play. If I need energy or am needing motivated, FRANKENSTEIN.
JOHNNY WAS A TORMENTED PERSON, he had so much pain from his situations he fomented. He was the destructive force unto himself. Being so bombed he'd let his mouth just fly sometimes, he did not care. Confrontational, racial, it did not matter. So if there was someone involved with him dying it was him being ripped off but I bet his mouth didn't help. Being in ill health and bombed his mouth was stronger than his ability to fight his way through as he was no athlete.
Poor johnny got judged for being on heroin raather than his art. Its not right that people get judged and stereotyped. . If id been him I would have slaughtered those wankers in the press . They hounded Keith Richards too but h was brilliant and already the top rock and roll guitarist in the world. Keith and johnny were real icons and true stars that werent up their own arse.
Agree -Cheryl
This is the most awkward thing ever
This has the feel of a deposition
@@AlmostReady504 And all the excitement of one too. 😀
late in life? by the time JT was 25 his 'job' was staying high
This is far too boring to watch.
Just an aging fangirl. Nothing to do with seriously balanced and researched rock history. Laughable.
The Dolls had a strong image but weak songs.
+Glowing Red Brain I have their first album. Unfortunately their music never clicked with me.
listen closely to the tone of the guitar....it will click....there is nothing now that compares to the raw tone of those guitars
u got that right
“David Bowie is redundant now & Johnny Thunders is an Icon” ... haha oh my , what a silly girl ... Johnny Thunders was a tragic drug addict , a few good songs even more mediocre ... a glorified fantasy , more lame than great
@Tyler Mod love the first Dolls album 100% there are more great songs from The Dolls on their the last 3 albums by far just not a big fan of The Heartbreakers - Link Wray The Sonics The Stooges Pink Fairies Hawkwind Alex Harvey there’s a lot of Punk before Punk
@Tyler Mod you’re an idiot
@@daevidharvey7113 If you are not a fan of the heartbreakers u are an ass, and what u doing here?