Thanks for the entertainment. I would say closing off the grate has caused your issues. What seems to happen is, if you can't easily move the char through the grate, the fines build up higher and higher making it very hard for the gas to pass through. It's like pulling air through dirt. That's also why you fired up the second blower. Problem is, if you can't purge the char, it becomes more and more packed the longer you run. I made a new ash grate for mine that has no sides on it so I can easily free the blockages. This worked wonders for me. Also I'm hoping the rubber you used for the clean out door can handle the heat. I just worry that if it's not high temperature rated, it will quickly break down. Saint gobains makes really great door seal material that holds up the heat very well. Overall you were definitely making good gas. The volume just wasn't there after the bell started to pack. You will figure it out. You're on the right track. Thanks again for the show. Joe
Thanks mate, yeah I'm very relieved the problem was with the grate, a relative easy fix, although trying to keep the changes to one at a time so I can see what works and what doesn't, I think the rubber seals will be fine, I did heat test them and seems fine, I'm keen to see your wood processing machine, no pressure 😄
just rambling here but #1 the new seal on the door - proper seal and previous arrangement may have let enough air through for 1 fan to be adequate... #2 the agitator - does it need to drag - metal on metal? Could it not be more elevated to basically allow smaller pieces of lit charcoal to lay flat on the bottom? Cheap test - round bbq grill mesh - cut in circle --- test that perhaps before welding solid metal permanent fixtures - anyway, I love your videos - massive fan
Grate video😂 pun intended really glad you show us all the hiccups along the way really takes us along on the journey. That test had a decent startup flare but choked itself out once the ash clogged the grate now you’ve got rid of the rotary shear it’s going to need a fixed cross bar running along the bottom of reduction zone to grate to help stir up the bottom ash around grate area. That channelled door worked very well I think overall third test was much improved on second test.
Thanks, yeah been thinking of ways to agitate the grate, now that the grate is rotating, the agitator can be stationary, I try not to change too many things at once, so I'll just try one thing at a time and observe, cheers
Without a doubt, you are making good progress here, and you are surely arriving at the right conclusions. Like you, I found the need to experiment with the grate, and the reduction assembly, in order to make it work well. Indeed, I am yet to get mine right, as I have to stoke it while the engine is running, in order to prevent the reduction tube from getting blocked. There is one thing that concerns me though, and that is the fuel port that you were looking into. At some point in time, there is going to be a "cannon blast" through that port, and it will really mess you up, if you are in it's line of fire. I found this out, the hard way, and I wood hate for you to experience it! Anywatt, keep up the wood work :) .
Thanks, at first I thought the 3rd run was worse, but then I realised it wasn't, didn't have any mechanical malfunctions, and fixing the grate will be relative simple. Over the opening there will be a fuel feed system so it'll be OK, the drizzler type gasifiers are supposedly not prone to backfires, so far so good, once I get the compactor/level switch up and running bridging should be a thing of the past, well that's the plan anyway, but very few plans survive reality, cheers
@@whathappensintheshed Agreed. Though you were discouraged in this video, you also realised that you were going in the right direction, while clearing all of those annoying hurdles. The frustration will soon be forgotten, as all of your spare wood becomes watten :) . Yeah, I'm a poet, and I know it. Blame the woodgas bug venom, I say ;) .
Hi, my friend.. You put a lot of effort so far into this thing... Even though, i think, the drive shaft should be at least 20 mm thick... And maybe the agitator would work in conjunction with round holes in the grate... I dont want to demotivate you, but a friend of mine works on developing such a gasifier for more then 30 years now.. with thousends of problems popping up everywhere... most dominant... the unwanted tar and sud, which clogs parts of the engine.... Anyway, i appreciate your work and sharing it with us guys here on youtube... Subscribed and greets from Germany..
Thanks mate, yeah I don't expect the issues all to go away any time soon, will try to change only one thing at a time to see what works and what doesn't, cheers
I try to change only one thing at a time to see what works and what doesn't, I have seen Energie und Hobby before will have a look, I sometimes search under holzgas to widen the results, cheers
great video thank you. instead of the 8 arm agitator having vertical faces that move the charcoal would it not be better to have triangle shapes which would allow all stuck pieces to ride up over them or better still make them sharp blades which would cut the charcoal pieces wedged in the grate holes so they fall through and remove the blockage
Thanks mate, I did consider several changes to the agitator, but in the end I decided to remove the problem altogether, go to rotating grate, much easier, I can go back further down the road, but now I just need to get it running, cheers
Might be too much moisture in the wood. If you put a drain trap on your condensate, you should be able to leave the valve open as long as there's water in the trap. Make sure you have a clean out. I'm concerned about your PVC caps holding the rocks melting.
The wood is usually well seasoned, eventually the condensate drain will be plumbed to the bottom of a reservoir, hopefully the stones won't get hot enough to melt the PVC caps, the reservoir will also second as water spray if needed, I haven't checked inside yet, cheers
I noticed the comment you made about the condensate to another viewer in E16 about 30 minutes after I posted my comment. I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes from here. Really like how you've built each section to join/remove easily. I love that it's just a couple steps above your skill level and you take us along on the journey to learn what you know and what we'll all learn together.
@@jasonwilfong3349 thanks for the feedback much appreciated, there are some major changes coming up soon, hopefully most (seemed like a good idea at the time) are out of the way now, cheers
Maybe try an entirely different approach to getting ashes out the grate? Rather than a wiper, how about vertical vibrations that you run intermittently...
I had the same suggestion but unlike regular downdraught gasification the reduction zone on this one is very large it has to support a lot of weight that would require heavy duty springs to hold grate with cam and shaft to shake it that’s a large design change with no guarantee it will solve the problems plus the rotary system is needed to eject ashes to a catchment area at the bottom but if you add cam to top of scraper shaft like a inverted ratchet gear style shape that the supported shaft to grate sits on It could work but it adds complexity and extra wear point
I originally went with the rotary agitator for something gentle (minimise charcoal dust) I'm hoping a rotary grate will still achieve this, if so I get away with minimal changes, cheers
Would a solution have been to change the grates from being parallel bars to being concentric rings? Then you never have the agitator at 90 degrees to the grate trying to sheer the charcoal?
Two issues with that are heat causing spiral to sag without supporting the rings and if you support rings you would require cross members bringing back the shear problem plus large unspent fuel would just endlessly circulate at the bottom with ash eventually covering it choking the system up. if he can suspend larger fuel in burn zone until small enough to efficiently pass through grate without choking system it will run much better
Your shaft has warped, you need to use at least a 1" thick shaft or the heat will warp the shaft. Another idea would be to use two interlocking shafts and agitators that work like a set of gears. Good luck
Unfortunately the shaft came to me pre warped tried to straighten it, it's OK. I don't want to make too many changes at once, see what works and what doesn't, cheers
Instead of scrapers in a star pattern would rollers like in a pellet mill work better? you can spring load them so they ride up over larger pieces while crushing the smaller pieces and eventually the larger pieces will be reduced by the rollers and fall through the grate.
Sounds a little too complex for my workshop, I'm going to persevere with the current setup, try to change only one thing at a time to see what works and what doesn't, cheers
Need to add more tube to the flare cup and you may need more fuel above your jet. 8 inches above your jet is part of the process. If fuel is this hieght above your jets this is an empty hopper and it will make weak gas.
Will grab another tin can when one comes to hand, yeah it is a bit short. My gasifier hasn't got any jets as such, it's based on the drizzler concept, if this doesn't work out I will throw in some jets like in an Imbert. Just wanna finish up with thanking you for sharing your content with us, cheers
If I was the one looking to fix that grate issue, I'd have gone with more clearance between stationary and rotating parts. I'd do the same with the ash scraper in the bottom.
Specialy with the ash scraper, have them like 1cm above the metal floor means he has a 1cm layer of fine ash on the floor if he gets any large objects they will just be plowed trough the ash layer instead of blocking the scraper.
Yeah know what you're saying, I did consider raising the agitator, but in the end went for more conventional rotating grate for now at least, as for the floor scrapers, works in progress, I try to change only one thing at a time, cheers
I did consider this, but in the end went with a more conventional rotating grate, but I can still revert back to the agitator. As for the floor scrapers not a bad idea, will continue to tweak the design, cheers
That comes later ones I'm happy with the basic running, the idea is to keep the fuel level as low as I can get away with, that way you get much cleaner gas, less moisture, virtually no tar, but the flaming char bed has to be the dominant factor, not the fuel load sitting above it. In my latest video I go into this some more, in future fuel will be feed in by screw feeder etc. I've started making major changes to the whole build, stay tuned. BTW I've watched your stuff, keep up the good work, cheers
I have often wondered about that, haven't seen anyone doing it that way, I guess negative pressure in the vessel behaves differently from positive, cheers
@@whathappensintheshed i got an idea for the agitator. why not change it into a bowl like design with a pole in the middle and make it spin, back and forth too if possible. instead of using a blade design.
@@mervynshute880 I did consider that, would also be safer etc. The blowers create negative pressure in the system because that's how it is meant to operate, once running the generator it creates the vacuum, cheers
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Thanks for the entertainment. I would say closing off the grate has caused your issues. What seems to happen is, if you can't easily move the char through the grate, the fines build up higher and higher making it very hard for the gas to pass through. It's like pulling air through dirt. That's also why you fired up the second blower. Problem is, if you can't purge the char, it becomes more and more packed the longer you run. I made a new ash grate for mine that has no sides on it so I can easily free the blockages. This worked wonders for me. Also I'm hoping the rubber you used for the clean out door can handle the heat. I just worry that if it's not high temperature rated, it will quickly break down. Saint gobains makes really great door seal material that holds up the heat very well. Overall you were definitely making good gas. The volume just wasn't there after the bell started to pack. You will figure it out. You're on the right track. Thanks again for the show. Joe
Thanks mate, yeah I'm very relieved the problem was with the grate, a relative easy fix, although trying to keep the changes to one at a time so I can see what works and what doesn't, I think the rubber seals will be fine, I did heat test them and seems fine, I'm keen to see your wood processing machine, no pressure 😄
I love your shop it's very well setup. Keep working on it I would love to see it preform. I'm thinking of building one myself 😊.
Thanks for the feedback, when you build one just don't copy any of my mistakes, cheers
just rambling here but #1 the new seal on the door - proper seal and previous arrangement may have let enough air through for 1 fan to be adequate... #2 the agitator - does it need to drag - metal on metal? Could it not be more elevated to basically allow smaller pieces of lit charcoal to lay flat on the bottom? Cheap test - round bbq grill mesh - cut in circle --- test that perhaps before welding solid metal permanent fixtures - anyway, I love your videos - massive fan
Thanks, yeah some issues to sort out, some major changes coming up, cheers
Grate video😂 pun intended really glad you show us all the hiccups along the way really takes us along on the journey.
That test had a decent startup flare but choked itself out once the ash clogged the grate now you’ve got rid of the rotary shear it’s going to need a fixed cross bar running along the bottom of reduction zone to grate to help stir up the bottom ash around grate area. That channelled door worked very well I think overall third test was much improved on second test.
Thanks, yeah been thinking of ways to agitate the grate, now that the grate is rotating, the agitator can be stationary, I try not to change too many things at once, so I'll just try one thing at a time and observe, cheers
Without a doubt, you are making good progress here, and you are surely arriving at the right conclusions.
Like you, I found the need to experiment with the grate, and the reduction assembly, in order to make it work well.
Indeed, I am yet to get mine right, as I have to stoke it while the engine is running, in order to prevent the reduction tube from getting blocked.
There is one thing that concerns me though, and that is the fuel port that you were looking into.
At some point in time, there is going to be a "cannon blast" through that port, and it will really mess you up, if you are in it's line of fire.
I found this out, the hard way, and I wood hate for you to experience it!
Anywatt, keep up the wood work :) .
Thanks, at first I thought the 3rd run was worse, but then I realised it wasn't, didn't have any mechanical malfunctions, and fixing the grate will be relative simple. Over the opening there will be a fuel feed system so it'll be OK, the drizzler type gasifiers are supposedly not prone to backfires, so far so good, once I get the compactor/level switch up and running bridging should be a thing of the past, well that's the plan anyway, but very few plans survive reality, cheers
@@whathappensintheshed
Agreed. Though you were discouraged in this video, you also realised that you were going in the right direction, while clearing all of those annoying hurdles.
The frustration will soon be forgotten, as all of your spare wood becomes watten :) .
Yeah, I'm a poet, and I know it.
Blame the woodgas bug venom, I say ;) .
Hi, my friend.. You put a lot of effort so far into this thing... Even though, i think, the drive shaft should be at least 20 mm thick... And maybe the agitator would work in conjunction with round holes in the grate... I dont want to demotivate you, but a friend of mine works on developing such a gasifier for more then 30 years now.. with thousends of problems popping up everywhere... most dominant... the unwanted tar and sud, which clogs parts of the engine.... Anyway, i appreciate your work and sharing it with us guys here on youtube... Subscribed and greets from Germany..
Thanks mate, yeah I don't expect the issues all to go away any time soon, will try to change only one thing at a time to see what works and what doesn't, cheers
You are so funny.. you mind was somewhere else.. no worries mate you got this.. :)
Thanks mate, learned a lot from my mistakes, some major changes coming up, cheers
@@whathappensintheshed do you have plans available for purchase?
I think you could get rid of the agitator problems if you use a rotating grate together with ceramic balls like "TH-cam: Energie und Hobby" does.
I try to change only one thing at a time to see what works and what doesn't, I have seen Energie und Hobby before will have a look, I sometimes search under holzgas to widen the results, cheers
ti ammiro sei un grande, ti seguo sempre!!!!!
Thankyou, much appreciated
great video thank you. instead of the 8 arm agitator having vertical faces that move the charcoal would it not be better to have triangle shapes which would allow all stuck pieces to ride up over them or better still make them sharp blades which would cut the charcoal pieces wedged in the grate holes so they fall through and remove the blockage
Thanks mate, I did consider several changes to the agitator, but in the end I decided to remove the problem altogether, go to rotating grate, much easier, I can go back further down the road, but now I just need to get it running, cheers
Might be too much moisture in the wood. If you put a drain trap on your condensate, you should be able to leave the valve open as long as there's water in the trap. Make sure you have a clean out. I'm concerned about your PVC caps holding the rocks melting.
The wood is usually well seasoned, eventually the condensate drain will be plumbed to the bottom of a reservoir, hopefully the stones won't get hot enough to melt the PVC caps, the reservoir will also second as water spray if needed, I haven't checked inside yet, cheers
I noticed the comment you made about the condensate to another viewer in E16 about 30 minutes after I posted my comment. I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes from here. Really like how you've built each section to join/remove easily. I love that it's just a couple steps above your skill level and you take us along on the journey to learn what you know and what we'll all learn together.
@@jasonwilfong3349 thanks for the feedback much appreciated, there are some major changes coming up soon, hopefully most (seemed like a good idea at the time) are out of the way now, cheers
Maybe try an entirely different approach to getting ashes out the grate? Rather than a wiper, how about vertical vibrations that you run intermittently...
I had the same suggestion but unlike regular downdraught gasification the reduction zone on this one is very large it has to support a lot of weight that would require heavy duty springs to hold grate with cam and shaft to shake it that’s a large design change with no guarantee it will solve the problems plus the rotary system is needed to eject ashes to a catchment area at the bottom but if you add cam to top of scraper shaft like a inverted ratchet gear style shape that the supported shaft to grate sits on It could work but it adds complexity and extra wear point
I originally went with the rotary agitator for something gentle (minimise charcoal dust) I'm hoping a rotary grate will still achieve this, if so I get away with minimal changes, cheers
Would a solution have been to change the grates from being parallel bars to being concentric rings? Then you never have the agitator at 90 degrees to the grate trying to sheer the charcoal?
Two issues with that are heat causing spiral to sag without supporting the rings and if you support rings you would require cross members bringing back the shear problem plus large unspent fuel would just endlessly circulate at the bottom with ash eventually covering it choking the system up. if he can suspend larger fuel in burn zone until small enough to efficiently pass through grate without choking system it will run much better
I'm currently changing the grate back to how it was, only making the gaps wider, one change at a time, see what happens, cheers
Your shaft has warped, you need to use at least a 1" thick shaft or the heat will warp the shaft. Another idea would be to use two interlocking shafts and agitators that work like a set of gears. Good luck
Unfortunately the shaft came to me pre warped tried to straighten it, it's OK. I don't want to make too many changes at once, see what works and what doesn't, cheers
Naturally, we shake the grate to get the ash out. Try vibrating the grate and not sweeping the grate
Yeah I know, just trying something different, looking for solutions, but finding problems, cheers
Instead of scrapers in a star pattern would rollers like in a pellet mill work better? you can spring load them so they ride up over larger pieces while crushing the smaller pieces and eventually the larger pieces will be reduced by the rollers and fall through the grate.
Sounds a little too complex for my workshop, I'm going to persevere with the current setup, try to change only one thing at a time to see what works and what doesn't, cheers
Need to add more tube to the flare cup and you may need more fuel above your jet. 8 inches above your jet is part of the process. If fuel is this hieght above your jets this is an empty hopper and it will make weak gas.
Will grab another tin can when one comes to hand, yeah it is a bit short. My gasifier hasn't got any jets as such, it's based on the drizzler concept, if this doesn't work out I will throw in some jets like in an Imbert. Just wanna finish up with thanking you for sharing your content with us, cheers
If I was the one looking to fix that grate issue, I'd have gone with more clearance between stationary and rotating parts. I'd do the same with the ash scraper in the bottom.
Specialy with the ash scraper, have them like 1cm above the metal floor means he has a 1cm layer of fine ash on the floor if he gets any large objects they will just be plowed trough the ash layer instead of blocking the scraper.
Yeah know what you're saying, I did consider raising the agitator, but in the end went for more conventional rotating grate for now at least, as for the floor scrapers, works in progress, I try to change only one thing at a time, cheers
I did consider this, but in the end went with a more conventional rotating grate, but I can still revert back to the agitator. As for the floor scrapers not a bad idea, will continue to tweak the design, cheers
A steep cone shape bottom wouldn't require a scraper to move the ash to the outside .
True, but it would make the unit much higher, cheers
Just my 2 pence worth. Reduce the number of veins on the crate. They are all getting stuck. With just 2 you will reduce the forces a lot
Yep I agree, doing it now, cheers
Не подскажите почему факил у Вас часто угасал?Хоть газ не чистый но он горел👍Очень интересное видео получилось. 4:06
Спасибо
give the thing a proper feed man! It cant develop its pyrolisis zone which is above the char bed.
That comes later ones I'm happy with the basic running, the idea is to keep the fuel level as low as I can get away with, that way you get much cleaner gas, less moisture, virtually no tar, but the flaming char bed has to be the dominant factor, not the fuel load sitting above it. In my latest video I go into this some more, in future fuel will be feed in by screw feeder etc. I've started making major changes to the whole build, stay tuned. BTW I've watched your stuff, keep up the good work, cheers
what if you used the blowers as an intake instead of an exhaust?
I have often wondered about that, haven't seen anyone doing it that way, I guess negative pressure in the vessel behaves differently from positive, cheers
@@whathappensintheshed i got an idea for the agitator.
why not change it into a bowl like design with a pole in the middle and make it spin, back and forth too if possible. instead of using a blade design.
@@adrianramos4400 Yeah there are a lot of options, but I'm going to keep it simple, let's see how it goes with the rotating grate, cheers
@@whathappensintheshed your blowers seem to be suckers. a blower would blow air in. Try it. could be a different game plan
@@mervynshute880 I did consider that, would also be safer etc. The blowers create negative pressure in the system because that's how it is meant to operate, once running the generator it creates the vacuum, cheers
K.I.S.S.
Wire brushes on the bottom
I'll continue tweaking the current setup, see what I can get away with, one change at a time, see what works, and what doesn't, cheers