Let me make my stance clear: I would say alot cards are on the ban list for reasons the format is out grown Do they need to come off? No, especially if they WOTC doesn't believe there's a way to monetize them Are there worse cards legal in the format tho? 100%
These cards were banned for their shenanigans at the Time? Imagine having all the tools. Yah of course there would be powerful decks. However if you have access to all… just imagine the brews that would come about to counter those decks. Just saying 😊
I think that bringing back "banned as a commander" could be okay for Braids Cabal Minion, Griselbrand, and maybe even Nadu Winged Wisdom. I've also thought about adding "banned as companion" for Lutri the Spellchaser but I don't think it would make it okay since there are plenty of ways to bounce back creatures and reuse its effect repeatedly in blue, but I do think it's worth a serious conversation weighing the pros and cons of that if they would ever bring back "banned as" in commander.
I played when it was legal along side prime time. I do believe they got banned at the same time. The game revolved around them in a negative way. It's much fairer now but still does exactly what you want in, ramp while while removing perms. wouldn't be an issue at all if it couldn't hit lands
Coalition Victory has more upside now with Leyline of the Guildpact, but it is 8 mana as you say. And with the Thasa's Oracle and all it stuff legal is absurd.
Do not unbanned Coalition Victory let’s just let wizard print a 7 mana enchantment, that said whenever you draw a card except one in your draw set draw a addition cards, when draw 7 or more cards in one turn you win the game
Yeah the leyline helps but you have to have it in your opening hand, otherwise it's honestly better to use prismatic omen or ramp for the actual lands. And 8 mana......that's an arm and a leg, and have to a 5 color creature, and then SORCERY SPEED, if this was unbanned and you lose to this, I will laugh at you.... and I will not apologize, that is entirely you and your pods fault
Do not unbanned Coalition Victory let’s just let wizard print a 7 mana enchantment, that said whenever you draw a card except one in your draw set draw a addition cards, when draw 7 or more cards in one turn you win the game
Braids is banned for being miserable to play against when you get her out turn 1-2 because you're forcing everyone to sacrifice (or not play) their only land each turn It's a pretty slow and miserable game when a player Dark Rituals out a Braids turn 1.
Hot take: Your average commander player can't handle anything beyond monogreen pauper: anything beyond that will sooner or later result in salty crying so I don't think it's useful to waste time on unbanning when considering edh player, just qualify this as 'These should go directly to Tier4/CEDH bracket' so they have some reassurance they won't touch their precious casual tables.
To answer your question, I think the most likely unban is prophet of kruphix. Yes it is a strong card, no it wouldnt enter top 100 strongest cards in edh if it were unbanned today. There are 10s of cards that untap your things on everyones turns and 100s of them that allow flash speed on your spells (might be slight exaggeration, but still a lot) the card isnt doing anything new and assembling a 2 card combo that does the same thing isnt that difficult. Im already on the belief that it wasnt banned because of its sheer power, it was banned because its too boring to play against since prophet player does a lot of playing. On that argument, why not ban winter orb, static orb, armageddon, etc. These cards also make it so that that player plays a lot more than other players? And if it is based on raw power, I can list a bunch of cards like necropotence, sol ring, ad nauseam, demonic tutor, etc here but instead I will just say thassas oracle and will not elaborate. People should play more interaction instead of not playing interaction than losing to a card and crying witch. Prophet of kruphix is a fine card for the format. Strong, but fine
As someone who plays the unbanned black braids. Getting to draw 3+ cards per turn from turn one is arguably more powerful but also more socially acceptable
I remember the time before the primordial ban, it gets so fun with deadeye and dual type lands, and then flickering it 3-4 times to remove 9-12 lands from your opponents And the prophet of kruphix meta was basically everyone plays at least green and blue, and then stack their decks with clones so everyone has a prophet and the only time you're not casting stuff is your own turn
I've been saying to my friends that Coalition Victory should be unbanned. If they can successulfully resolve the win the game effect, they deserve the win.
"Dies to removal" is a bad argument to unban a card. Especially Prophet of Crufix which is in blue so players can use all the counter spells in the game, they can hardcast the expensive ones if they wanted. From there, they just monopolize 3/4ths of the gametime taking actions on everyone elses turn. It needs to stay banned.
People are fear mongering old cards like they are that good in commander now. 🙄. You are clearly right and I think the community needs to stop taking the "It was banned for a reason" argument, and actually test out and see how these cards play out unbanned.
Prophet of kruphix does it all in one card and simic players are there to play creatures, ramp, and draw cards and this card lets you take a turn... EVERY TURN. I'ts time equity. One player hogging too much time on the table adding to the game length by constantly saying "before your turn ends" or "in response" after every action/end phase etc. Just like prime time everyone wants a copy or control of it. It warps the game. At least with Orrery you need additional cards and/or generally have limited resources.
The issue with sylvan primordial is that there are a million ways to get it onto the battlefield before turn 7 as well as being able to copy, recur or flicker it. Although I don’t know how much other cards there are like it that are unbanned still. Also sundering titan being artifact suffers from the same thing. One that comes to mind is Mithras tamer of mak fawa which gives artifacts unearth for three so you get two activations of sundering Titian super early depending on mana rocks and ramp.
The problem with unbannings is that there are a massive number of casuals who refuse to acknowledge that they're anecdotal experiences with these cards from 2010-2016 hold basically no meaning in the fire design era. Its objective fact that a good portion of the edh banlist is just unplayable garbage in comparison to modern examples, but that doesn't align with theyre feelings. There is 0 reason nyksbloom ancient a card that triples all your mana production should be legal but prime time and sylvan primordial should not be. Its incongruent but because people like shivam had a bad experience with the card 9 years ago they think it should be perma banned.
ive been Primortial blink cloned before and it sucks, but to be fair there are a lot more permanents you control gain hexproof cards now then back then
Sundering Titan is fine to unban since so many lands don't have land types now. Cards like Ruination are probably far more destructive and they are perfectly fine.
Was at a 6 player game.. player a managed to get sylvan primodial out on turn 4, player b clones it. Player c cast another clone.. the last 3 player basically have to scope, after losing 3 lands.. worst card to unban. You lose just because u lose dice roll.. # true story
Right off the bat i already strongly disagree. Sylvan Primordial warps the game around it in the same way Prime Time does. It becomes "The Best" thing to be doing if you're in green. If i could only hit nonbasic lands, then sure. But you can go full degenerate with this thing by blink or reanimating it, and 7 mana is chump change in monogreen.
I think the only argument against Coalition Victory isn't power but ubiquity. Any WUBRG deck can easily fetch up all 5 basic land types with green ramp to meet the land requirement and meet the creature requirement with their commander -- so any WUBRG deck can run it as a wincon without building around it. I don't think it should be banned because of this reason and it should be unbanned, but there is a reason it can stay on the ban list.
But the same could be said about Bolas Citadel and Sensei‘s Diving Top and aetherflux reservoir as a „i win the game“ combo that fits in every black deck. But it doesn‘t go in every Bx Deck because its a boring play pattern.
A lot of these are banned because they're miserable to play against. Even Coalition Victory was mostly banned for the sake of it being fairly easy to cheat out and winning the game out of nowhere. I feel like this is vastly underestimating how easy it is to have every basic land type and creature colour covered before you play Fist of Suns with Pact of Negation in hand.
At first I thought that silly to just said kill Braids!? Then I realize as Sheoldred player, your oppor see your plan miles aways. So yeah I agree Braid ahould be unban lol
i agree primordial needs to be unbanned but saying its underwhelming is absolutley insane. Their are so many way to abuse it. You can flicker it so many times and just end the game
Give me Sundering Titan or give me death. There's alot of good dual lands now that don't have basic land types, and I wanna blow up basics, Shocks, Triomes, and Surveil lands. Punish people for jamming fetches and good typed land (including me).
here me out. prime ti is the best card to unban, but not for casual... it will benefit cedh a lot. if not prime ti sylvan primordial did get punished for the sins of prime titan. so if we keep cards ban for casual i would agree that we shouldn't unban prime ti, however, we have lion's eye, mox diamond, mox opal, and so many others broken af cards. we should use rule zero for prime ti
unban everything but ante/silver/ and the recent bans. put the problem cards in the top bracket or in a banned in tedh bracket. free sahahrazad and chaos orb
Your explanation of CV is exactly why it should be banned. A card that can literally ONLY win the game or literally do nothing is terrible gameplay and design and either outcome feels crappy for the people involved
Paradox Engine for me, and I'd be ok with Tolarian Academy too. Braids (the Black one) I think would still be too oppressive though and feel that should be remain banned (until someone can show me a fun way they've built it like I will with Paradox Engine)
Unpopular opinion here, coalition victory should stay banned, because it can be a lot better than it seems. Like its an instant win card and all you require is 8 mana, 5 land types (fetches, shocks and triomes makes this trivial because it doesnt say 5 seperate lands or 5 basic lands) and a 5 color creature (again, doesnt say 5 seperate creatures and there are very few 5 color commanders that arent actually 5 colors so only your commander fulfills this most of the time). This is, as demonstrated, a lot easier to do than might initially seem. I mean yes if you kill the 5 color creature in response it doesnt do anything, and Im not against coalition victory being played. Im against coalition victory being played in a game where only blue gets spell interaction (and a teeny tiny bit blue but cmon)
Do not unbanned Coalition Victory let’s just let wizard print a 7 mana enchantment, that said whenever you draw a card except one in your draw set draw a addition cards, when draw 7 or more cards in one turn you win the game
![อิสราเอลโดนอิหร่านถล่มหนักกว่าที่คุย : [คุยผ่าโลก worldtalk]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/R8gIN-MQhWw/mqdefault.jpg)
Let me make my stance clear:
I would say alot cards are on the ban list for reasons the format is out grown
Do they need to come off? No, especially if they WOTC doesn't believe there's a way to monetize them
Are there worse cards legal in the format tho? 100%
These cards were banned for their shenanigans at the Time? Imagine having all the tools. Yah of course there would be powerful decks. However if you have access to all… just imagine the brews that would come about to counter those decks. Just saying 😊
I think you just made a good case to ban more cards, not unban more, or stick all of these in bracket 4.
I think that bringing back "banned as a commander" could be okay for Braids Cabal Minion, Griselbrand, and maybe even Nadu Winged Wisdom. I've also thought about adding "banned as companion" for Lutri the Spellchaser but I don't think it would make it okay since there are plenty of ways to bounce back creatures and reuse its effect repeatedly in blue, but I do think it's worth a serious conversation weighing the pros and cons of that if they would ever bring back "banned as" in commander.
Assuming that people aren’t gonna cheat out sylvan primordial and are gonna full cost in commander is kinda wild.
Assuming it’s going be one per player too when blink exists
@@Dark-Pikachu1 Assuming that other creatures aren't a problem when blink exists...
You can already cheat out things like Blightsteel Colossus or Worldgorger Dragon.
@@UpgradeBob if there game plan is to cheat out Sylvan Primordial, they were already cooked lol
I played when it was legal along side prime time. I do believe they got banned at the same time. The game revolved around them in a negative way. It's much fairer now but still does exactly what you want in, ramp while while removing perms. wouldn't be an issue at all if it couldn't hit lands
Coalition Victory has more upside now with Leyline of the Guildpact, but it is 8 mana as you say. And with the Thasa's Oracle and all it stuff legal is absurd.
Do not unbanned Coalition Victory let’s just let wizard print a 7 mana enchantment, that said whenever you draw a card except one in your draw set draw a addition cards, when draw 7 or more cards in one turn you win the game
Yeah the leyline helps but you have to have it in your opening hand, otherwise it's honestly better to use prismatic omen or ramp for the actual lands. And 8 mana......that's an arm and a leg, and have to a 5 color creature, and then SORCERY SPEED, if this was unbanned and you lose to this, I will laugh at you.... and I will not apologize, that is entirely you and your pods fault
Craterhoof behemoth is an 8 mana, sorcery speed that many people consider an "i win" card and it's fine. Unban coalition victory.
yeah! and ban thoracle! lol
Do not unbanned Coalition Victory let’s just let wizard print a 7 mana enchantment, that said whenever you draw a card except one in your draw set draw a addition cards, when draw 7 or more cards in one turn you win the game
Braids is banned for being miserable to play against when you get her out turn 1-2 because you're forcing everyone to sacrifice (or not play) their only land each turn It's a pretty slow and miserable game when a player Dark Rituals out a Braids turn 1.
was just about to say this. he has clearly never played against a braids deck and it shows. now i say we unban leovold! FREE LEOVOLD lol
@@sir_quirkus7206 Why is the illusion of choice okay with Leovold but braids an is the problem?
I'd be okay with bringing back "banned as a commander/companion" and allowing Braids, Griselbrand, Lutri, and (potentially, but not convinced) Nadu.
Hot take: Your average commander player can't handle anything beyond monogreen pauper: anything beyond that will sooner or later result in salty crying so I don't think it's useful to waste time on unbanning when considering edh player, just qualify this as 'These should go directly to Tier4/CEDH bracket' so they have some reassurance they won't touch their precious casual tables.
Griselbrand 😈
Cancel this man right now, he's getting full mad, deranged... utterly unhinged
To answer your question, I think the most likely unban is prophet of kruphix. Yes it is a strong card, no it wouldnt enter top 100 strongest cards in edh if it were unbanned today. There are 10s of cards that untap your things on everyones turns and 100s of them that allow flash speed on your spells (might be slight exaggeration, but still a lot) the card isnt doing anything new and assembling a 2 card combo that does the same thing isnt that difficult. Im already on the belief that it wasnt banned because of its sheer power, it was banned because its too boring to play against since prophet player does a lot of playing. On that argument, why not ban winter orb, static orb, armageddon, etc. These cards also make it so that that player plays a lot more than other players? And if it is based on raw power, I can list a bunch of cards like necropotence, sol ring, ad nauseam, demonic tutor, etc here but instead I will just say thassas oracle and will not elaborate. People should play more interaction instead of not playing interaction than losing to a card and crying witch. Prophet of kruphix is a fine card for the format. Strong, but fine
Definitely prime time and golos and possibly sylvan primordial
As someone who plays the unbanned black braids. Getting to draw 3+ cards per turn from turn one is arguably more powerful but also more socially acceptable
I also really badly want to cast an angel's grace when someone casts a coalition victory
Rumor has it that braids is banned because Sheldon got put in a braids bitterblossom lock
I just want braids back so i can put her in my braids deck
I remember the time before the primordial ban, it gets so fun with deadeye and dual type lands, and then flickering it 3-4 times to remove 9-12 lands from your opponents
And the prophet of kruphix meta was basically everyone plays at least green and blue, and then stack their decks with clones so everyone has a prophet and the only time you're not casting stuff is your own turn
Without Flash in the format, 1 & 2 are pretty safe. Hell if that brings back Bribery in the format I'm all for it.
I've been saying to my friends that Coalition Victory should be unbanned. If they can successulfully resolve the win the game effect, they deserve the win.
"Dies to removal" is a bad argument to unban a card. Especially Prophet of Crufix which is in blue so players can use all the counter spells in the game, they can hardcast the expensive ones if they wanted.
From there, they just monopolize 3/4ths of the gametime taking actions on everyone elses turn. It needs to stay banned.
Unban Sylvan primordial... can't take you seriously.
Keeping Prime Time banned and saying Sylvan and Prophet be unbanned is crazy haha
@@crisgon9552prime titans deserve it too blink isn’t what everyone thinks about it and I don’t get it acting like these cards won’t ETB more then once
People are fear mongering old cards like they are that good in commander now. 🙄. You are clearly right and I think the community needs to stop taking the "It was banned for a reason" argument, and actually test out and see how these cards play out unbanned.
Prophet of kruphix does it all in one card and simic players are there to play creatures, ramp, and draw cards and this card lets you take a turn... EVERY TURN. I'ts time equity. One player hogging too much time on the table adding to the game length by constantly saying "before your turn ends" or "in response" after every action/end phase etc. Just like prime time everyone wants a copy or control of it. It warps the game. At least with Orrery you need additional cards and/or generally have limited resources.
Yarok players salivating at the thought of Sylvan Primordial being Unbanned.
"Simic players are doing enough busted stuff already"
So why unban Prophet and give them another busted thing to do?
I seen tables top standard no
Just no
The issue with sylvan primordial is that there are a million ways to get it onto the battlefield before turn 7 as well as being able to copy, recur or flicker it. Although I don’t know how much other cards there are like it that are unbanned still. Also sundering titan being artifact suffers from the same thing. One that comes to mind is Mithras tamer of mak fawa which gives artifacts unearth for three so you get two activations of sundering Titian super early depending on mana rocks and ramp.
The problem with unbannings is that there are a massive number of casuals who refuse to acknowledge that they're anecdotal experiences with these cards from 2010-2016 hold basically no meaning in the fire design era. Its objective fact that a good portion of the edh banlist is just unplayable garbage in comparison to modern examples, but that doesn't align with theyre feelings. There is 0 reason nyksbloom ancient a card that triples all your mana production should be legal but prime time and sylvan primordial should not be. Its incongruent but because people like shivam had a bad experience with the card 9 years ago they think it should be perma banned.
ive been Primortial blink cloned before and it sucks, but to be fair there are a lot more permanents you control gain hexproof cards now then back then
For coalition victory the hard part is getting the creature check requirment.
Sundering Titan is fine to unban since so many lands don't have land types now. Cards like Ruination are probably far more destructive and they are perfectly fine.
titan is fine in 1v1 because you might hit your own lands. in multiplayer it's basically one sided
5:08 You can grab dual lands! 🤩
"It won't be played if unbanned" ... thats so inherintly wrong it literally goes from 0 to something lol
Was at a 6 player game.. player a managed to get sylvan primodial out on turn 4, player b clones it. Player c cast another clone.. the last 3 player basically have to scope, after losing 3 lands.. worst card to unban. You lose just because u lose dice roll..
# true story
Okay Boomer, when was that? 2007?
i've seen similar games, you don't need the second clone to be op
Right off the bat i already strongly disagree. Sylvan Primordial warps the game around it in the same way Prime Time does. It becomes "The Best" thing to be doing if you're in green. If i could only hit nonbasic lands, then sure. But you can go full degenerate with this thing by blink or reanimating it, and 7 mana is chump change in monogreen.
I think the only argument against Coalition Victory isn't power but ubiquity. Any WUBRG deck can easily fetch up all 5 basic land types with green ramp to meet the land requirement and meet the creature requirement with their commander -- so any WUBRG deck can run it as a wincon without building around it. I don't think it should be banned because of this reason and it should be unbanned, but there is a reason it can stay on the ban list.
But the same could be said about Bolas Citadel and Sensei‘s Diving Top and aetherflux reservoir as a „i win the game“ combo that fits in every black deck. But it doesn‘t go in every Bx Deck because its a boring play pattern.
That’s a 3 card combo, coalition victory essentially wins by itself
Braids in the command zone is disgusting. Turn 1-2 most games with fast mana and rituals. Let her stay banned
wish banned as a commander was still a thing
A lot of these are banned because they're miserable to play against. Even Coalition Victory was mostly banned for the sake of it being fairly easy to cheat out and winning the game out of nowhere. I feel like this is vastly underestimating how easy it is to have every basic land type and creature colour covered before you play Fist of Suns with Pact of Negation in hand.
At first I thought that silly to just said kill Braids!?
Then I realize as Sheoldred player, your oppor see your plan miles aways. So yeah I agree Braid ahould be unban lol
i agree primordial needs to be unbanned but saying its underwhelming is absolutley insane. Their are so many way to abuse it. You can flicker it so many times and just end the game
I honestly don't want to see Primordial, Primeval, or Titan unbanned as long as Dead Eye is in for format. Simic doesn't need them back.
Until people get to be fine with lands blowing up, prime time gets to stay jailed.
Before the video: Sway of the Stars.
Give me Sundering Titan or give me death. There's alot of good dual lands now that don't have basic land types, and I wanna blow up basics, Shocks, Triomes, and Surveil lands. Punish people for jamming fetches and good typed land (including me).
Lutri should be allowed to be a commander
here me out. prime ti is the best card to unban, but not for casual... it will benefit cedh a lot. if not prime ti sylvan primordial did get punished for the sins of prime titan.
so if we keep cards ban for casual i would agree that we shouldn't unban prime ti, however, we have lion's eye, mox diamond, mox opal, and so many others broken af cards. we should use rule zero for prime ti
unban everything but ante/silver/ and the recent bans. put the problem cards in the top bracket or in a banned in tedh bracket. free sahahrazad and chaos orb
I think braids stays on the list becasue you can turn 0 her and sac a land.
12:01 ok but die removal is kinda lame are telling me 10/10 someone going have it when I see it first creature was one that gave everything hexproof
8:08 I will play titan because it isn’t MLD we need some land hate in EDH
i want recurring nightmare
It's not even the second best reanimator spell and we have tons of grave hate in all colors now
Your explanation of CV is exactly why it should be banned. A card that can literally ONLY win the game or literally do nothing is terrible gameplay and design and either outcome feels crappy for the people involved
Unban Lutri, just don't allow companion
Urbog hello 👋 you guys have zero lands 😆 9:14
Unban all of the silver cards
Hard Disagree on Braids, cabal Minion
This is outta pocket
Let me have my otter!
Unban Black Lotus, the Moxes, Ancestral Recall, Library of Alexandria, and Karakas.
Library, ok. What do the rest of them do for the format?
I agree, except Karakas.
@@VulcanGray It's just wild to see them played!
karakas no but yes to sahahrazad and chaos orb
Unban lutri. My boy did nothing wrong
This person like ETB are once lamo you know it’s going ETB 4 times
Ain't no way, every card you included on here is for click bait can't fool me lmao
All valid
Paradox Engine for me, and I'd be ok with Tolarian Academy too.
Braids (the Black one) I think would still be too oppressive though and feel that should be remain banned (until someone can show me a fun way they've built it like I will with Paradox Engine)
Give me PrimeTime!
I'd rather not.
Unpopular opinion here, coalition victory should stay banned, because it can be a lot better than it seems. Like its an instant win card and all you require is 8 mana, 5 land types (fetches, shocks and triomes makes this trivial because it doesnt say 5 seperate lands or 5 basic lands) and a 5 color creature (again, doesnt say 5 seperate creatures and there are very few 5 color commanders that arent actually 5 colors so only your commander fulfills this most of the time). This is, as demonstrated, a lot easier to do than might initially seem. I mean yes if you kill the 5 color creature in response it doesnt do anything, and Im not against coalition victory being played. Im against coalition victory being played in a game where only blue gets spell interaction (and a teeny tiny bit blue but cmon)
Yeah but you just names like 3 check boxes to pull it off
1 card and 2 mana says no
Bans are fine, still 1000s of other cards to choose from.
Griselbrand😈
@@perkcg free the homie G-grizzy
Give me back my 15 mana win the game eldrazi commander
Do not unbanned Coalition Victory let’s just let wizard print a 7 mana enchantment, that said whenever you draw a card except one in your draw set draw a addition cards, when draw 7 or more cards in one turn you win the game
Lutri.
Ban as companion!
@@DylanHunter64 Full Unban. It is time.
@@ReyaadawnMTG Oh God, no. Never lol never happening, never should
@@ReyaadawnMTG Izzit colors don’t need a free 101st card.
3:35 ok blink exist it’s never going be just one permanent for each player lamo
Green doesn't need such good removal
I dont play commander much but it seems like he’s cooking