I must have watched this video a dozen times over the years.....but i keep coming back for the information every time I need to cast for a specific Velocity. Although I definitely would recommend the Lee hardness tester. Just to know the hardness of the alloys we are mixing as a baseline...its spot on all the time with the alloy Calculator. I pray this video never gets removed...🙏 ps. With the right BHN & PowderCoating i have NEVER had any leading...Amazing.
@@talonsd7131depends what you want the bullet to do. Are you using it for plinking paper or hunting? The powder coat will prevent leading even if the bullet is softer, but it will perform differently in animal tissue with different hardness. Lead casting books talk about this matter.
Mickey Mac - Thanks for the good word…Not really trying to teach, though, because all of you out there either need a starting point, or some additional data to add to what you already have, or you might just like to see how others do the things you do (there certainly is room for a lot of personal preference and style in bullet casting) -- It's all OK and we grow together… Best Regards FC45LC
Wheel weight was very good for magnum cast loads. Veral Smith of lead bullet technology in moyie springs Idaho is a great reference. Great information Cookie
First and foremost let me say thank you. I ordered lead from rotometals and used the ratio you posted of 6 to 1 for my range scrap. All of my bullets came with in a half to 3/4 of a grain of each other from my lee 2 cavity molds. My wife and I remelted all of our bullets and started fresh today. It was fun and very rewarding. Our previous weights of our bullets was all over the place. Knowledge is key. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
Green Kool Aid Reloader - And please let me say that a husband / wife casting team is a wondrous thing...May the two of you take care of each other for the duration... At some time, you might wish to powder coat your bullets - and that will open up even more fun, challenges, experiences and satisfaction. Thanks for your neat comment... FC
Wow! That was excellent! Thank you very much for taking the time to answer all of my questions. You are a wealth of knowledge. Great vid. Thanks again!
voodoo304-And Thank You for your great questions - it gave me a chance to put it down in video form. And the topic isn't as glamorous as actual shooting, but other viewers are finding it interesting. Best Regards
goodwater2020 - And top of the day to ya, goodwater2020..!! Safely done, making and shooting cast bullets really opens up the world of handgun, lever action rifle and single shot rifle shooting... Best Regards, FC
Thanks! I just purchased a Lee hardness tester. Nice little unit. However, with my old eyes and shaky hands, the microscope scale is hard to hold still enough to read (76 yrs old). HAW! Your thumbnail scratch test is still the best for me!
Thank you sir, your videos have been very helpful. You just answered my question of casting standard velocity 9mm and 45 acp bullets , from lead ingots made from solely melted range scrap.
@@FortuneCookie45LC And what about lead from wheel wheights?. For standard 9x19 mm? Thanks in advance, your video helped so much. I am new to reloading, need all the help i can get 😊🙃
Great informational video. Young fellow here just harvested some various wheel weights from my local dealership just to hell them clean up. Figuring out the different leads is what I was interested in and this helped a ton. Thanks 🙏
Thanks for the shout out, a friend told me they seen this video and said you mentioned me. Sorry I missed it when you put this out. Great info as always, I've learned a lot from your video's.
Thank you very much for responding. I will feel a little more comfortable reloading the 460 S&W magnum. Once again thank you for all the educational videos you have on TH-cam
punchrolo 2 - If loaded to full magnum performance, the 460 needs Lyman #2 alloy or pure linotype. Water quenching out of the mold would be a good idea. (Lyman #2 + GCs for hollow point bullets) Good reloadin' to ya, FC Steve
Hello FCLC45, today's session using the 99% pure lead with 1% tin content worked really well in reference to casting and swaging! The first time I cast and swaged with this 99%/1%...was the first time I ever cast and swaged, so the results were not that good at all. I've come to realize that the more I cast and swage, the better the results are.:-) For me, its nice to know that developing a skill to produce a better end result is required for this kit I'm using, as it would be to boring if it was just a matter of banging away at something to get the best results each and every time! Thanks again for all of your help! My plan is to cast and swage around 500-rounds tomorrow, grab a handful to apply the 45-45-10 to and then go do some shooting! Respectfully, agw.
Great informative video once again. You do such a great job of helping us to understand some of the nuances of reloading and bullet casting. Thanks for the great video!!!
I've been casting for about 3 years, probably around 20K rounds, and have used almost exclusively range scrap with great results. I just now finally ordered some Super Hard Alloy and tin from Rotomtals. Plan to start working on some magnum loadings.
Hans S. Always great to hear from ya, Hans!! That SuperHard alloy is really a joy to use and at 30% antimony, don't need much of it (eyeball 1 pound SH to 4 1/2 - 5 pounds of range scrap + water quench + 2 week age to get magnum hardness BHN 18). And the tendency is to use too much tin as that is easy to do. Our range scrap even contains some tin (probably around 1% already) you only need about 2% to get the best flow into our details. Best to mix final alloy right there in the bullet pot as the fewer times we melt our lead, the better. Making ingots from our range scrap is essential to do. Mixing our alloy right there may seem logical, but it requires another melting in our bullet pot. Every melting can change our composition. Good castin' to ya
FortuneCookie45LC Thanks for the tips! Like I said, this will be the first time I've really dealt with mixing alloys and those pointers will be very useful. I have tinkered with adding WW to my range scrap for higher velocities in 9mm's, but nothing specific. In your opinion, if I reach a BHN of 18-20, are gas checks necessary for .357/.44 mag velocities of around 1,100-1,200?
Hans S. Hans, no bullets need gas checks at 1100-1200fps (that's 22LR velocity - and flash copper plating doesn't even count as a gas check or jacket). Plain base lead bullets are all that's needed up to 1600 fps. Gas checks cost about 5 - 6 cents each... save the money. For rifle shooting, 1600 fps and up gas checks are especially needed. Good shootin' to ya...
FortuneCookie45LC Great! I regularly hear guys talk about applying gas checks for loads well below 1,200. Lots of misinformation out there I assume. Good to know. Thanks you.
Hans S. Hans, let me give you more details on this issue. The shooters who like to put gas checks on their bullets at lower velocities believe that the gas checks provide more uniform bases for better accuracy (and they will quote limited non-statistical studies that compare accuracy being better with gas checks). This was a spin off of bullet molds that casted the bullets inverted so that the sprues were on the bullet noses providing more uniform bases. Certainly, any shooter who has determined for himself or herself that that is what they get - then by all means, the extra expense is warranted (they can spend their money any way they want). We all just need to bear in mind that much long range competition has been done with black powder rifles shooting plain base cast bullets - some of that with paper patch bullets (and how uniform is the folded paper over the base?). And NRA Bullseye competition (perhaps the most demanding contest in all the world of shooting) was done for many years with hollow base wadcutters (definitely no gas checks there). The variables affecting accuracy in handguns are so many that it is a question on how much we want to pursue. My best advice to you is if you want to do gas checks, you might as well pursue accuracy and power at the same time. If you want to do low or standard power accuracy, just shoot wadcutters (no one puts gas checks on wadcutters). Hope this will settle this for you...
Hey Cookie, have you done or could you do a video on all the different bullet shapes for 45 LC. Looking to start casting but don't know what dies to get since there are so many shapes and sizes.
Hey Steve I cast and shoot full power .44 magnum at about 1350 fps with 2400 powder at BHN around 11-12 with no leading what so ever. I think bullet fit is more important than hardness but maybe not it just seems that's what I have noticed over the years.
That's been my experience as well. I use Lyman #2 alloy, which as far as I know is about 15 to 16 Brinnell, and have never seen the need for anything harder.
So I have to ask, what does powder coating do to the hardness equation on a practical level? Does it increase the ability of the bullet to withstand deformity or disintegration and if so to what degree and how does that translate to real world , ie, hunting situations?? Pehaps an entire video on that subject would be interesting.
I will get a 9mm aea air rifle and i want to know will it damage the barrel if i harden the lead? Will it group better or its better to just stick to cast lead slugs
I'm about to pick up about 500lbs of ingot lead I purchased. It is mostly soft plumbers lead for lead and oakum joints for cast iron. There are also ingots of 50/50 solder. I want to cast for 38/357, 44 mag & 30 cal. rifle using GC & HF PC @2,000fps as well. I have a limited resource of about 5gal pail WW. I need recipes to alloy the soft lead into something usable. Something along the line of Super hard + soft lead + 50/50 & 95/5 or pewter. I love watching your video's!
What about shotgun slugs from rifled choke? The slugs accelerate in the smooth part of the barrel and then they suddenly rotate. What hardness is needed for this application?
I believe I’ve found over a hundred pounds of Linotype (in printing bar form). I’ve only purchased twenty pounds so far and would like to know for sure that it’s the real deal before I buy any more. It is for the most part thin bars 4”-5” in length and most are about 1/8” thick. Some are only 1/8” thick at the top part (where the letters are) and the bottom part tapers down thinner with ribs spaced approx 1” apart. I melted some of it down this evening and it starts to melt at 450*, but is still a little sludgy. It is pretty well completely melted at 525*. I melted a few pounds of it to further verify it’s Linotype. Here’s the part I’m unsure of. If a 1/8” bar of pure lead were bent/flexed it would do so without breaking or snapping in half. The bars that I brought home yesterday(with writing on them and some that still have ink on them) will snap if you try to bend them at all. They are very hard and pretty much will not flex or bend like pure lead. The fact that they are almost brittle is what has me wondering. Understandably, they wouldn’t be as soft as pure lead, but should they snap in half when trying to bend them? Does that sound like how the Linotype you have had your hands on would react to bending? Just so you know, I’ve been casting for low velocity pistol loads (45acp, 38special, 9mm) for about two years now, but with none of my lead exceeding the hardness of wheel weights. I had never even seen a piece of Linotype in person before yesterday, if in fact that is what I’ve found. I also used my lead pencil set and could not put a scratch in the bars I melted down until I worked my way down to an “H” pencil, which according to the chart should put it at 20-22 bhn. So, would you believe this is Linotype or is there any possibility of thin bars with writing on them being anything else? Thank you in advance for your help
This video was exactly what I was looking for. Alright, I plan on getting a 454 Casull lever action rifle and have it set up to run heavy (400+ grains if I can get the c.o.a.l / seating to work) subsonic loads at about 1,000 fps. If the goal was to have the most terminal performance, how would that be best achieved? Ideally, the round would mushroom some and dump all of it's energy quickly instead of over penetrating. You said 15-16 hardness was acceptable for around 900 fps, but how well would that deform at those speeds? Not sure if pure lead could be powder coated or maybe something like 30-1 or 40-1 with a coating. Or would too soft of a bullet just splatter upon impact? Or is it having a hollow point more or a factor than the type lead used? Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Good stuff as usual FC45LC. The thumbnail don't lie... My range scrap runs a little closer to pure lead than yours because most of it comes from jacketed bullets. I typically run it 50-50 with clip on wheel weight lead plus a small amount of tin for most of my pistol shooting. Rotometals is a great resource for us casters when we need to harden things up a bit.
jima28080 - Thanks for making that point - we get all kinds of lead fired at our range including lots of cast bullets so there's where the tin and antimony comes from in my particular source of range scrap...Have a great day...
Fortune Cookie . thanks for all you teach us. years ago I thought I read in LYMAN lead book that every time you heat up your lead and scrap off the gross you are making it softer because you scrap off the tin. do you think this is true. I have a lot of wheel weight lead to hard for 44 cal pistol bullets. I was going to try this 3 or 4 times then test the hardness with finger nail.
Yes it is true to a point. The antimony will dross out easier and it is the hardest, looks kinda like oatmeal when you dross it. I find tin alloys pretty good with lead. Adding soft lead from stick on weights is the easiest. Anyone getting WW should have the sticky tape on weights, these are close to pure lead & some are.
Thank you for these! Love watching your vids, just started reloading a couple weeks ago. Already certain I want to cast for 50AE, I just need to get a better idea of where to start and be familiar enough with the terms and methods used that I don't screw up a thousand rounds and 2 guns in one sitting.
Thanks for this finger nail test. I use wheel weighs Thai I melt the metal clips and impurities out .then pour into ingot's. Then I mix 9 pounds of w.w lead with one pound of pure tin .flux the melt with pine sawdust and water drop my cast bullets. That's just what works good for me. 38/357 30/30.
killer 65 - Wheel weights all by themselves are great for up to light magnum pistol. With the extra tin, you should be good for magnum pistol, plus gain the added flow from the tin to fill out your bullets... Continued good castin' to ya, FC
lawgiver1-AHA!! That's the $64,000 question that has no answer…We are 1) not supposed to shoot reloads in our Glock factory barrels and 2) not supposed to shoot lead bullets thru our Glock factory barrels. That having been said, the answer is BHN 16 (18 is not needed as Glocks feed very reliably - however, use a good auto pistol bullet like the Lee TL 230 RN with the little shoulder; use the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die with the barest little crimp possible) and medium speed powder like Unique or AA5 or Universal. Best Regards
lawgiver1 There was a gunwriter years ago that used 5 grains of Bullseye/230 bullet. I forgot who it was, but he called the 5 grains "…a stiff tot of Bullseye". Have a great day...
Just a tip. Buy a lee reloading manual, it goes into great detail on this subject plus I think they make the best molds and etc. At the best prices. Can't go wrong on this.
45 LC!!!! I need your help. I am a little confused about the difference’s in antimony, super hard and linotype. I have about 30 pounds of pure lead. I am not sure how and what to mix with it.
I've got a question, I recently started casting and coating 9mm. They are 147 grains and the speed should be 900fps, haven't chronod because I had allot of tumblers. Then I noticed my bullets were sized by my brass. I ruled out seating and crimping since I seated without crimp and the same issue remains. My barrel is slugged .355, I tried .356 and .357 bullets. But they all size down do around .352-.353 in my case. BHN is 18 with the pencil test. I still have old lubed bullets and some coated that I once bought. Their hardness is 26-28 and even higher then H2 pencil. I've got 30 year old lee carbide sizing die's. They size my case to .374 outside diameter. When I pull the harder bullets they are not deformed anything. Though I noticed my .356 plated bullets deform slightly to .355. Do you have any possible tips? Do I need to increase lead hardness by adding tin and antimony? Edit: OAL is 28.87mm
I still love this video however I’m really struggling to mix antimony with clean premelted ingots of wheel weight lead (10bhn) to make 24 bhn but can't seem to get above 15. The antimony seems to oxidise before it melts into the lead. I am using candle-wax as a flux and have tried submerging the antimony in the melted lead in a LEE melting pot for 30+ minutes at 350 degrees Celsius (650 Fahrenheit) but it still just leaves a grainy substance on the surface like it’s not actually melted / dissolved properly. I've also tried a direct flame into a cast iron pot but that only melts the lead and oxidises the antimony. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. A video showing your process of creating 20+ bhn would be even better because I can't seem to find any on TH-cam.
Pure Antimony melts at something like 1100° F, it's very difficult to alloy together with lead unless you have a _very_ hot pot. Ideally, you want to melt it together under an inert gas like argon in a furnace or kiln to reduce oxidation and get up to higher temps. It is much easier to just buy pre-alloyed lead from something like Rotometals or ebay, I actually just bought 20 pounds of 30/70 from Rotometals, 20lbs is enough to harden about 300 pounds of pure lead with the addition of a couple pounds of zinc. Once it is alloyed the melting temperature is much lower, which is why the vast majority of casters buy pre-alloyed bars, the equipment needed to alloy pure Antimony isn't worth the cost unless you're producing it commercially.
great video. ill have to do the maths on your mixes to see if i can work out the percentages going from pure lead with a purchasable hard alloy. some of us cant get range scrap and pure lead is the only way to start.
Thank you. Now that I have a bunch of lead from varying sources, I need to get bit scientific in my mixes. Setting up dies and measuring, etc have never intimidated me even when a beginner, but this does.
derekec - if you know what your lead is, you can use the free download Lead Hardness Calculator from the Cast Boolits website to set your mixes. e.g. linotype is 84% lead, 12% antimony, 4% tin. Hardball alloy is 92% lead, 6% antimony, 2% tin. Lyman #2 is 90% lead, 5% antimony, 5% tin. Roofing lead is as good as pure lead. Scuba weights are pure lead. Range scrap is 96% lead, 1% tin, 3% antimony. These are plugged into the LHC in pounds and the final BHN of the alloy pops up. You can plug in the BHN you want and the calculator will give you the weights of component alloys to get you there. Good castin’ to ya.. FCSteve
+Mike Harrison - That's the Lee 452 252 SWC - available in 2 cavity molds only (although they will make a 6 for you on special order). It is a good bullet that casts for me at 262 grains. Good shootin' to ya, FC
Thanks for the info. My Lyman cast bullet handbook says alloys with a BHN between 10 and 15 are suitable for speeds of 1000 to 1800fps. {pg 73 4th ed}. Have been on the fence as to what BHN to order using Titegroup 4.5gr in a 357mag. Lee manual says 1028fps for this load with a 158gr lead bullet. Would I be better off using a BHN of 18 or 12 with this load in a Henry lever action? Going to use MBC bullets since I do not cast my own bullets. Any info would be appreciated. Enjoy your videos. Would like to see you do a video on using the Lewis Lead Remover system to clean a rifle. thanks
larry munninghoff - When it comes to all those hardness issues, our best policy is to use proper fitting bullets as the first priority...that will really be the factor that will keep us smiling shooting cast bullets. The hardness is really a ballpark thing and using BHN 18 in your Henry is a very good idea...your longer barrel will warrant the harder alloy Missouri Bullets gives you a good reliable bullet and BHN 18 will serve you well - even if you stoke your loads, you've got hardness to spare...and unless you are shooting cowboy action the BHN 18 has the lattitude to handle it (if shooting BHN 22 bullets - too hard and could lead barrel shooting light loads)...If you do cowboy action, Missouri BHN 12 is it. Have a great day, FC
When it comes to lead for older/lighter load guns, like say the 455 webley, do you want to go softer or harder? It seems that this falls sort of into the cowboy action territory? Also, what about the relationship between the cylinder chambers, forcing cone, and barrel? My buddy has one and he's going on about how he keeps measuring and he's only coming out to 450-452, but he's measuring improperly (in my opinion) with calipers. I told him to slug it, but he seems apprehensive. He loaded up some 262 gr over I believe 3.9gr Bullseye, but he's worried that the 455 bullet size (with 15 BHN) may cause pressure spikes and damage the gun? It is an unshaved standard cylinder mark 6 webley.
Fortune Cookie45- Very many thanks for your erudite reply. As you say there is a great deal of confusion over the BHN of pure lead, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that we, as shooters, are really only looking for a testable hardness so that we can repeat an alloy that we find to shoot well, the actual true hardness in scientific value really means very little, now that most serious reloaders have a means of testing lead hardness with their own testers I am sure they can see the reason for some "off loads" due to the batch of alloy used, my problem has been in getting the BHN above 7.7 ! I have even alloyed in Solder (Lead, Antimony, Tin), without getting a very high reading on my Lee tester, which got a very good write up on the Los Angeles Silhouette Club review, I have even considered mixing in some hard Babbit, but have not yet tried that. This is all part of the very enjoyable pursuit of reloading ones own ammunition.
Englishman French - I have found RotoMetals Superhard alloy 30% Sb, to be the slam-dunk route to bullet alloy hardness. I know shipping complicates the cost, but at the last word, orders over $199 get free shipping. The word is out now on lead alloys anywhere including solder - it's all getting costly. The good thing is that we can be very happy shooting standard loadings with softer lead supplies…There was a day long ago in a galaxy far, far away where I bought 18" little 3/4" diameter bars of 50/50 lead/tin solder for 25 cents a bar (a gallon of gasoline was 49 cents as I recall). My wife tells me to stop lamenting, and just move forward… Best to ya...
What is the correct BNH if your shooting 45acp out of a 1911. We are talking about around 700-850+. What is the proper mix and can you help me with this please.
I have heard that water quenching only hardens the bullets temporarily, but I have never put much stock in that. Obviously once they are melted it is reversed but do you think they stay harder until they are melted? What is your opinion?
I'm new to casting, in fact I actually haven't cashed anything yet, i'm still doing research and trying to decide if that's the route I want to go. With that said my biggest concern is the right ratio to use, the two calibers I would be casting is 9mm and .223. My question is if I was using wheels weights and then powder coated them, will I still need to add tin and antimony?
Jason Krohn - Plain wheel weights is good to be used straight up for our pistol shooting up to light magnums. In the past, the famous gun writers like Skeeter Skelton did all their pistol shooting with wheel weights. But one thing, the most current lead wheel weights are a bit softer than the wheel weights of the past...if you powder coat the bullets, the difference should not matter. If no PC, than you might need to add some linotype if you intend to shoot cast in your magnum handguns. Probably a 4 WW to 1 Lino mix. Please come back for other questions...otherwise, my playlist on Cast Bullets should give you lots of information. Happy Thanksgiving, FC
Great video! I had a lot of the same questions. I was using my Lyman 49th edition to load 44 Mag with 200 grain cast bullets and it said to use Linotype bullets. Hodgden load data wasn't specific about the hardness just loaded on the conservative side and didn't have anything above 1,039fps depending on the powder. Which makes me ask, why does the powder make a difference? We are well under max pressures so is a faster burning powder better for cast bullets or a slower burning powder.
velocity550- All powders running to appropriate SAAMI pressure levels work well with cast bullets. It's all nitrocellulose, nitroglycerine, nitroguanine with retardants, detergents and stabilizers in flakes, spheres, donuts, rods --- Best Regards
What would 20 to 1 lead to tin be? A 45/70 match shooter says it perfect and he lets it cool in a dry pan. Also would this mushroom? Do you have different standards for a hunting bullets? Thanks
Once again I learn something from your videos! My dilemma right now is I cast up 100 Lee .452 swc that are supposed to weigh 252 grains. Yet they average at 260 gr. What gives? The lead is soft. I can dent/scratch it with my thumbnail. I am wanting to shoot this out of my pietta 1858 Remington with a conversion cylinder and I’m having a hard time finding load data for such.
mark perez what powder are you using I have a 1858 re with a conversion and I use 200 gr rnfp and use trailboss and drive them around 900fps no leading and shoots good
Ok I’m new at this so if you powder coat your bullets and their still a soft lead will they still expand for the rifling to work? Any help appreciated.
Dear FortuneCookie45LC; I started casting 9mm 125 grain Round Nose. I am using %50 Linotype and %50 Pure Lead and water quenching. Is this a good hardness or shall i make it softer? Ty for advice again, u are saint.
Ruhsuz When you mix 50-50 lino and pure, you get an alloy called HardBall. It is very similar to Lyman #2 in performance and suitable for all heavy revolver and auto pistol bullets...With your water quenching, you are good to go...Good reloadin' to ya
What should be added is Black Powder velocity, Hornady lead balls are B-5 and those velocities can be into the 800-1100 fps. The question is why can those be so soft?
How do I make cast bullets from known hardness lead. U said tin is needed to make casting flow. How much tin? I have range at 12 bhn. I bought super hard and tin from rotometals. How much of each to make 15 bhn and 18 bhn?
Good info. I don't cast but its nice to know what cast bullets to buy and use. When do you need to use a gas check on a cast bullet? Thanks! BTW some of your text boxes in the video are popping up with nothing in them.
toy collector - Thanks for the heads up...we can't even use the text boxes now, as when we do the cards and end screens, annotations cannot be used. GCs on cast bullets for rifle shooting makes sense. For handguns, GCs are not necessary - but if a shooter wants to use them for whatever reason deemed fit, they can be applied. Some cast bullet designs are gas check designs giving shooters the option to use them or not. Very few of my handgun bullet designs include gas checks. Have a great day, FC
Yet another excellent and informative video from your site. However there is one flaw, and that is lead is 5 BHN, not 8.6 BHN, this would make quite a bit difference to the calculations.
Englishman French - There is some confusion over that. I've wrestled with this one for a while, and no one has brought it up until now. So thank you for bringing it up. Rotometals is a major supplier of bullet casting alloys and materials for over 75 years, and I have referred casting and lead questions to them on occasion - they always answer. RM has a formula for the calculation of BHN based on the mix of the alloy beginning with pure lead at 8.6. BHN = 8.6 + .26(%Tin) + .92(%Sb). I've been using their formula to excellent effect for 15+ years. Yes, I do know that Wikipedia says BHN 5, and some other posters use that. My take on that is everyone is cool as the RM formula may be shorting on the .26 or the .92 so all the numbers on final BHNs balance out. Also, because I water quench and age harden my castings I'm adding somewhere less than 2 BHN from that. The end result, we're probably all at the same place. You notice that I did not bother to present the formula in the video (thought about it, but gets too technical - like some of the forums - puts some viewers to sleep-they will fly away with that) and also can confuse esp. with the 8.6. RM has great connections with all those forums and the LASC boosts RM as well. I'm going to go with an expert in the field over what Wikipedia says (maybe Wik is using a different BHN scale - doesn't matter - my lead is good and it's not worth pursuing that). Best Regards to you, and sorry this was so long - it is a record length reply for me...
+Englishman French - Yes, it does make a big difference. No doubt what saves me is that Elmer Keith used pretty soft bullets in his magnum development work and he never leaded his barrels - he had good bullet fit to his guns. I realize the disparity from 5 to 8. I just use the 8 from the formula on the RotoMetals home page (bottom) they call pure lead 8 and the formula worked for me without fail, so I'm not about to change my operations...I do realize that controversy though. Since RM has been supplying caster alloys for 75 years, I figure I can go with their formula OK... Best to ya, lFC
FCLC45, as you already know, I'll be casting with 99% pure lead, 1% tin (.22/17-grain air-gun ammo), but if I wanted to make my lead a little harder, yet keep the melting point below 1000-f., what alloy/s do you recommend I mix with my 99% pure lead? Does tin actually make lead harder or does it just make lead shinier and flow better when molten? If you could recommend which item would be best for me to order from RotoMetals in order to make my 99% pure lead a little harder, what would it be? Thank you in advance very much, agw.
AirGunWarriors - Yes, tin is responsible for making our alloys flow and cast well. Antimony is the best hardener. The traditional alloy used to harden our softer lead is linotype (4% tin, 12% antimony). But RMs has created something even better - Superhard alloy (30% antimony). And, RM has a formula that will help you calculate how much to mix to get the hardness you want...Best Regards
I have always been told that the proper gauges to use is pressure instead of feet per second. The reason being that pressure allows what if any leading is going to happen with each individual load and using the same weight bullet for. Each test.
John Smith - You are absolutely right. Pressure is the better consideration for bullet hardness optimization. But since we don't have pressure equipment, the relationship between pressure and fps is relational enough for us to go with it...and those that tell you that bullet casting is a precision activity so that bullet hardness should be in tenths of BHN or weigh the components to make the alloy and control the temp to the degree are missing the point. A good bullet that fits the gun is the name of the game. Buffalo hunters made their bullets from buffalo chip fires the night before the shoot, and they nearly extinguished the entire species from the North American continent. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
Hey FC, I'm using right now pure lead ( roofing lead from a scrap yard ) for my 125 gr bullets for cowboy loads. Would quenching them in water add enough hardness to get buy or do I need to PC my bullets.
+Nick J -- I know you have heard that you can get spectacular hardness by quenching, but I haven't found that to be the case. You cannot rely on quenching to harden more than 1 or 2 BHN - that is still worth getting of course. People use their fancy lead testers, but if two users use the same lead tester, they wind up with different readings. Lead hardness is not the primary factor in clean accurate shooting bullets anyway - the bullet fit to the gun is the most important factor for cast bullet success. (note: jacketed bullets of caliber do not have the same requirements - they are good to go most of the time - just drive them fast enough to obturate and they will shoot even if they don't start off fitting the gun - if cast bullets do not obturate by their fit before they are shot, they will lead the gun - and then they won't shoot well and will only increase the leading build up) Back to your question, at the low cowboy velocities, you can shoot your 125 pure lead bullets - I recommend you start with .358 - .359" bullets with 45/45/10 easy lube. Marlin micro groove barrels will need at least .360". And yes, you can definitely PC the bullets - we have already discussed the OK legality of PC in cowboy action... Success to you, FC
For 300 BO pistol bullets, what BH would you recommend and how does powder-coating affect BH??? I saw elvis ammo shooting some Lee 223 powder-coated bullets @ 2500fps.
Match the velocity...FPS to BHN & you will have great success. Bhn 12. 850fps max. Bhn 15/16 1000fps max Bhn 17/18. 1700fps max Bhn 20/21. 2100fps max. Power coatings help give you some leeway on the hardness or softness of your alloys by a point or 2 but don't get carried away. P/C only can do so much. Also this BHN vs FPS is an excellent estimate. For example I cast a bhn 16 air cooled , 240gr 44 cal keith bullet that I Power coat in eastwood ford lite blue that I consistently push to 1400fps & NEVER get ANY trace of leading. So experiment & have fun.
SomeGuyInSandy - Note that 80% or more of our shooting can be done with just plain good old Range Scrap - no need to add expensive Linotype or Superhard (I haven't checked the RotoMetals prices recently) unless we are stokin' 'em... :) Best Regards
What got me was how you described the leading process, and how bullets that are harder than they need to be act if they don't seal the barrel. Great explanation, and easy to visualize. I always learn something new on your channel!
***** Appreciate the good word - Springtime in the Great American NorthWest !! Best Regards ... Good old Google, always trying to mess with our replies...
Wish I had seen this a few years ago as it would have given me a starting point. After much trial and error and much learning, I came to the conclusion that my Shiloh Sharps 45-110 running right around 1400 ish fps works best at BHN 13 and NO LEADING at all. Any faster than that results in hours of lead removal. BTW, NO ONE needs to buy an expensive hardness tester or use the somewhat ambiguous "thumbnail test" ( no offence) but a good set of staedtler pencil works great. Do a bit of research on how the pencil helps determine hardness and put a written reference scale inside the pencil set cover for reference and it will work very well at low cost. This allows you to get a reasonably accurate assessment of hardness at low cost.
I have two places that I get my cast bullets and one says there are BN 20 and the other say that theres are 21. So there not that much difference in the two bullets, correct?
mike mull - Your suspicions are well regarded. There is no significant difference between 20-21 for us. Fit of bullet to the gun is the critical issue. 1 BHN can be had just by letting bullets sit for 2 weeks...Best to ya...
I am just starting to get interested in casting. I plan on casting plinking loads for a 44-40, 38-40, 38-55, 30-30, and maybe 45-70. Is there an alloy that will work well with all of these calibers so that I can buy in bulk so to speak?
gnomehater63 - If you are going to buy alloy, RotoMetals has Lyman #2 alloy - it is industry standard for cast bullet alloy and will do well for all the calibers you list. Since you are beginning, that is a great way to start for uniform results. Later, you will be mixing your own alloys - easy with more experience. Please come back to let us know how you are progressing. Best Regards, FC
Thanks FC. I have a mismatch of scrap lead from fishing weights, other projects, etc but I want to get it right the first time with a proper alloy as these rounds will be going through original winchesters and sharps that I inherited. Thanks for the awesome videos, they are a huge help.
gnomehater63 - Wow!! Congrats on inheriting those old historical guns...you might check them out though - might have dark bores from shooting black powder, and if so, they may function well but may require that you shoot black powder rounds through them because of the strength of the steels...Best to ya, FC
Last year I shot a .22 hornet with water dropped wheel weight lead for my bullets and it worked perfectly. I was going to use the same lead in my .38 special at under 900fps, but I didn't realize a bullet that is too hard is bad. Question for you: Should I try to harden some pure lead I have or soften the wheel weight lead?
Todd ster - Sorry for the delay in this reply - Whenever Google does not post a comment in my inbox, I won't see it for months...perhaps never... Great question, too... Wheel Weights can be used with good effect for all handgun shooting straight up. I used to buy wheel weights 300 pounds at a time as well as get all the wheel weights I could from tire shops and car dealerships. Used it for everything including all out 44 mags with excellent results. But then wheel weights were taken out of circulation by edict. Now, I'm using free range scrap and hardening with linotype or SupreHard alloy as needed - and loving it!! My bullet metal cost is hardly worth including in computations. The too hard does not apply until you get higher than BHN 18. Harder than BHN 18 can be problematic unless the bullets start out at the right diameter (+.001-.002 bigger than revolver cylinder throats or .001-.002 bigger than groove diamter rifles and pistols), if small, the harder alloy will have a harder time obturating and barrel leading will result. Best to ya, FC
Hello I need some advice on mixing linotype with wheel weights the linotype I got from eBay is dirty when I add it to the ww it stays floating on top of the pot is there a method to get them to mix I tried wax to Flux didn't help this is my first experience with linotype and need some advice
+Francisco Maestas - You have some bad alloy there. Linotype mixes readily and cleanly with any lead alloy. If you had clean and added that linotype and got no mix / float on top, the problem is with the alloy you are adding. If what is floating is separate from the alloy, it is dirt or slag and can be skimmed off easily. leaving a clean alloy after fluxing. This is good as any tin or antimony in your add will give you harder alloy than when you started - that was the whole idea of adding linotype after all. If it is curdly and is merged with your lead, it might be zinc contamination and you have a real hard time trying to skim it clean, you might have to throw out the whole mix. Your experience using linotype should be a good, easy one. I've never gotten any bad linotype in 40 years of casting. Good castin' to ya - FC
I just bought 500 Hi-Tek 200 gr bullets from Missouri Bullet Company to load for my 10mm. They say there bullets are BHN of 18. I asked them if I could load my bullets to 1200 FPS, and they said absolutely, no problem. I also asked if O can load their 180 gr bullets to 1300 FPS, and they assured me I would be completely fine doing that. Would you agree with loading Brinell 18 bullets to full 10mm power, at these velocities?
I must have watched this video a dozen times over the years.....but i keep coming back for the information every time I need to cast for a specific Velocity. Although I definitely would recommend the Lee hardness tester. Just to know the hardness of the alloys we are mixing as a baseline...its spot on all the time with the alloy Calculator. I pray this video never gets removed...🙏 ps. With the right BHN & PowderCoating i have NEVER had any leading...Amazing.
Thats actually a question Ive had, Is it even particularly critical how hard the bullets are, if you powder coat?
@@talonsd7131depends what you want the bullet to do. Are you using it for plinking paper or hunting? The powder coat will prevent leading even if the bullet is softer, but it will perform differently in animal tissue with different hardness. Lead casting books talk about this matter.
I really appreciate all you give us with your years of experience casting and shooting !
You are a great teacher Fortune Cookie.
Please keep it going!!
Mickey Mac - Thanks for the good word…Not really trying to teach, though, because all of you out there either need a starting point, or some additional data to add to what you already have, or you might just like to see how others do the things you do (there certainly is room for a lot of personal preference and style in bullet casting) -- It's all OK and we grow together… Best Regards FC45LC
Seems like something useful I could use. Glad to see you passing this along where we can find it.
Wheel weight was very good for magnum cast loads. Veral Smith of lead bullet technology in moyie springs Idaho is a great reference. Great information Cookie
First and foremost let me say thank you. I ordered lead from rotometals and used the ratio you posted of 6 to 1 for my range scrap. All of my bullets came with in a half to 3/4 of a grain of each other from my lee 2 cavity molds. My wife and I remelted all of our bullets and started fresh today. It was fun and very rewarding. Our previous weights of our bullets was all over the place. Knowledge is key. Thank you for sharing your wisdom.
Green Kool Aid Reloader - And please let me say that a husband / wife casting team is a wondrous thing...May the two of you take care of each other for the duration... At some time, you might wish to powder coat your bullets - and that will open up even more fun, challenges, experiences and satisfaction. Thanks for your neat comment... FC
Wow! That was excellent! Thank you very much for taking the time to answer all of my questions. You are a wealth of knowledge. Great vid. Thanks again!
voodoo304-And Thank You for your great questions - it gave me a chance to put it down in video form. And the topic isn't as glamorous as actual shooting, but other viewers are finding it interesting. Best Regards
Thanks for the breakdown. Ur videos on lead are by far my favorite ones. U are clearly spoken n break it down for beginners like me. Thanks
goodwater2020 - And top of the day to ya, goodwater2020..!! Safely done, making and shooting cast bullets really opens up the world of handgun, lever action rifle and single shot rifle shooting... Best Regards, FC
Another great video. Thank you. You are a wealth of knowledge to a new caster.
James Helton - Appreciate the good word and for you taking the time to post it…Best Regards
Thanks! I just purchased a Lee hardness tester. Nice little unit. However, with my old eyes and shaky hands, the microscope scale is hard to hold still enough to read (76 yrs old). HAW! Your thumbnail scratch test is still the best for me!
Very informative I appreciate your teachings on bullet casting and hardness testing
Thank you sir, your videos have been very helpful. You just answered my question of casting standard velocity 9mm and 45 acp bullets , from lead ingots made from solely melted range scrap.
@@FortuneCookie45LC And what about lead from wheel wheights?. For standard 9x19 mm?
Thanks in advance, your video helped so much. I am new to reloading, need all the help i can get 😊🙃
Great informational video. Young fellow here just harvested some various wheel weights from my local dealership just to hell them clean up. Figuring out the different leads is what I was interested in and this helped a ton. Thanks 🙏
Thanks for the shout out, a friend told me they seen this video and said you mentioned me. Sorry I missed it when you put this out. Great info as always, I've learned a lot from your video's.
***** That was a fun video to do, and your questions helped get that going...so thanks to you for that... Best Regards
Thank you very much for responding. I will feel a little more comfortable reloading the 460 S&W magnum. Once again thank you for all the educational videos you have on TH-cam
punchrolo 2 - If loaded to full magnum performance, the 460 needs Lyman #2 alloy or pure linotype. Water quenching out of the mold would be a good idea. (Lyman #2 + GCs for hollow point bullets) Good reloadin' to ya, FC Steve
Great and informative video. Your data is exactly what I read in a casting book I am reading right now. Thank you
Hello FCLC45, today's session using the 99% pure lead with 1% tin content worked really well in reference to casting and swaging! The first time I cast and swaged with this 99%/1%...was the first time I ever cast and swaged, so the results were not that good at all. I've come to realize that the more I cast and swage, the better the results are.:-) For me, its nice to know that developing a skill to produce a better end result is required for this kit I'm using, as it would be to boring if it was just a matter of banging away at something to get the best results each and every time! Thanks again for all of your help! My plan is to cast and swage around 500-rounds tomorrow, grab a handful to apply the 45-45-10 to and then go do some shooting! Respectfully, agw.
😮great video once lead is mixed is there a way to get it back to pure lead state
Appreciate your time and effort to teach and inform.
Joseph Koziol - And thanks to you for being a friend of shooting, reloading and casting...Have a great day
Great informative video once again. You do such a great job of helping us to understand some of the nuances of reloading and bullet casting.
Thanks for the great video!!!
mcdsdaddy- Thanks for the good word...cast bullets are fun all the way around...Best to ya...
Thank you fro taking the time to make this video. Great information!
tuberaider - And thank you for taking the time to post comment...Have a great day, FC
thanks very much for posting this ,it will save a lot of time getting to do things right...God bless...doug
Thank you boss. You are about to help me get back to the range.
Great video. So when would I recognize that I might need to add tin into the pot?
I've been casting for about 3 years, probably around 20K rounds, and have used almost exclusively range scrap with great results. I just now finally ordered some Super Hard Alloy and tin from Rotomtals. Plan to start working on some magnum loadings.
Hans S. Always great to hear from ya, Hans!! That SuperHard alloy is really a joy to use and at 30% antimony, don't need much of it (eyeball 1 pound SH to 4 1/2 - 5 pounds of range scrap + water quench + 2 week age to get magnum hardness BHN 18). And the tendency is to use too much tin as that is easy to do. Our range scrap even contains some tin (probably around 1% already) you only need about 2% to get the best flow into our details. Best to mix final alloy right there in the bullet pot as the fewer times we melt our lead, the better. Making ingots from our range scrap is essential to do. Mixing our alloy right there may seem logical, but it requires another melting in our bullet pot. Every melting can change our composition. Good castin' to ya
FortuneCookie45LC Thanks for the tips! Like I said, this will be the first time I've really dealt with mixing alloys and those pointers will be very useful. I have tinkered with adding WW to my range scrap for higher velocities in 9mm's, but nothing specific. In your opinion, if I reach a BHN of 18-20, are gas checks necessary for .357/.44 mag velocities of around 1,100-1,200?
Hans S. Hans, no bullets need gas checks at 1100-1200fps (that's 22LR velocity - and flash copper plating doesn't even count as a gas check or jacket). Plain base lead bullets are all that's needed up to 1600 fps. Gas checks cost about 5 - 6 cents each... save the money. For rifle shooting, 1600 fps and up gas checks are especially needed. Good shootin' to ya...
FortuneCookie45LC Great! I regularly hear guys talk about applying gas checks for loads well below 1,200. Lots of misinformation out there I assume. Good to know. Thanks you.
Hans S. Hans, let me give you more details on this issue. The shooters who like to put gas checks on their bullets at lower velocities believe that the gas checks provide more uniform bases for better accuracy (and they will quote limited non-statistical studies that compare accuracy being better with gas checks). This was a spin off of bullet molds that casted the bullets inverted so that the sprues were on the bullet noses providing more uniform bases. Certainly, any shooter who has determined for himself or herself that that is what they get - then by all means, the extra expense is warranted (they can spend their money any way they want). We all just need to bear in mind that much long range competition has been done with black powder rifles shooting plain base cast bullets - some of that with paper patch bullets (and how uniform is the folded paper over the base?). And NRA Bullseye competition (perhaps the most demanding contest in all the world of shooting) was done for many years with hollow base wadcutters (definitely no gas checks there). The variables affecting accuracy in handguns are so many that it is a question on how much we want to pursue. My best advice to you is if you want to do gas checks, you might as well pursue accuracy and power at the same time. If you want to do low or standard power accuracy, just shoot wadcutters (no one puts gas checks on wadcutters). Hope this will settle this for you...
master, do you has a sort kind of table of dos and donts? would you share with us?
Hey Cookie, have you done or could you do a video on all the different bullet shapes for 45 LC. Looking to start casting but don't know what dies to get since there are so many shapes and sizes.
Spencer Horrell - OK - sounds like a good idea for a video...Have a great day...
Thanks man, awesome videos.
Hey Steve I cast and shoot full power .44 magnum at about 1350 fps with 2400 powder at BHN around 11-12 with no leading what so ever. I think bullet fit is more important than hardness but maybe not it just seems that's what I have noticed over the years.
That's been my experience as well. I use Lyman #2 alloy, which as far as I know is about 15 to 16 Brinnell, and have never seen the need for anything harder.
So I have to ask, what does powder coating do to the hardness equation on a practical level? Does it increase the ability of the bullet to withstand deformity or disintegration and if so to what degree and how does that translate to real world , ie, hunting situations?? Pehaps an entire video on that subject would be interesting.
I will get a 9mm aea air rifle and i want to know will it damage the barrel if i harden the lead? Will it group better or its better to just stick to cast lead slugs
Lots of good information, Cookie man, thanks!
+Steve Shooter - And thank you for taking the time to post -- Good shootin' to ya, Shooter!! FC
I'm about to pick up about 500lbs of ingot lead I purchased. It is
mostly soft plumbers lead for lead and oakum joints for cast iron. There
are also ingots of 50/50 solder. I want to cast for 38/357, 44 mag
& 30 cal. rifle using GC & HF PC @2,000fps as well. I have a limited
resource of about 5gal pail WW. I need recipes to alloy the soft lead
into something usable. Something along the line of Super hard + soft
lead + 50/50 & 95/5 or pewter. I love watching your video's!
+NYfirefighter357 --- Replied on your other msessage... Good castin' to ya, FC
What about shotgun slugs from rifled choke? The slugs accelerate in the smooth part of the barrel and then they suddenly rotate. What hardness is needed for this application?
How many years of experience before I calibrate my fingernail like yours?
Love your videos, I always learn so much.
I believe I’ve found over a hundred pounds of Linotype (in printing bar form). I’ve only purchased twenty pounds so far and would like to know for sure that it’s the real deal before I buy any more. It is for the most part thin bars 4”-5” in length and most are about 1/8” thick. Some are only 1/8” thick at the top part (where the letters are) and the bottom part tapers down thinner with ribs spaced approx 1” apart. I melted some of it down this evening and it starts to melt at 450*, but is still a little sludgy. It is pretty well completely melted at 525*. I melted a few pounds of it to further verify it’s Linotype. Here’s the part I’m unsure of. If a 1/8” bar of pure lead were bent/flexed it would do so without breaking or snapping in half. The bars that I brought home yesterday(with writing on them and some that still have ink on them) will snap if you try to bend them at all. They are very hard and pretty much will not flex or bend like pure lead. The fact that they are almost brittle is what has me wondering. Understandably, they wouldn’t be as soft as pure lead, but should they snap in half when trying to bend them? Does that sound like how the Linotype you have had your hands on would react to bending? Just so you know, I’ve been casting for low velocity pistol loads (45acp, 38special, 9mm) for about two years now, but with none of my lead exceeding the hardness of wheel weights. I had never even seen a piece of Linotype in person before yesterday, if in fact that is what I’ve found. I also used my lead pencil set and could not put a scratch in the bars I melted down until I worked my way down to an “H” pencil, which according to the chart should put it at 20-22 bhn. So, would you believe this is Linotype or is there any possibility of thin bars with writing on them being anything else? Thank you in advance for your help
This video was exactly what I was looking for.
Alright, I plan on getting a 454 Casull lever action rifle and have it set up to run heavy (400+ grains if I can get the c.o.a.l / seating to work) subsonic loads at about 1,000 fps. If the goal was to have the most terminal performance, how would that be best achieved? Ideally, the round would mushroom some and dump all of it's energy quickly instead of over penetrating.
You said 15-16 hardness was acceptable for around 900 fps, but how well would that deform at those speeds?
Not sure if pure lead could be powder coated or maybe something like 30-1 or 40-1 with a coating. Or would too soft of a bullet just splatter upon impact? Or is it having a hollow point more or a factor than the type lead used?
Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Excellent video..very informative.
Thanks for posting..
Good stuff as usual FC45LC. The thumbnail don't lie...
My range scrap runs a little closer to pure lead than yours because most of it comes from jacketed bullets. I typically run it 50-50 with clip on wheel weight lead plus a small amount of tin for most of my pistol shooting. Rotometals is a great resource for us casters when we need to harden things up a bit.
jima28080 - Thanks for making that point - we get all kinds of lead fired at our range including lots of cast bullets so there's where the tin and antimony comes from in my particular source of range scrap...Have a great day...
So do you cut those bars or can you melt a section of it into the pot
Great video, going to save it for future reference
Hey Steve, is the third bullet to the right a 45ACP SWC?
Fortune Cookie . thanks for all you teach us. years ago I thought I read in LYMAN lead book that every time you heat up your lead and scrap off the gross you are making it softer because you scrap off the tin. do you think this is true. I have a lot of wheel weight lead to hard for 44 cal pistol bullets. I was going to try this 3 or 4 times then test the hardness with finger nail.
KNIFE MAKER Did you ever test this theory?
Yes it is true to a point. The antimony will dross out easier and it is the hardest, looks kinda like oatmeal when you dross it. I find tin alloys pretty good with lead. Adding soft lead from stick on weights is the easiest. Anyone getting WW should have the sticky tape on weights, these are close to pure lead & some are.
Thank you for these! Love watching your vids, just started reloading a couple weeks ago. Already certain I want to cast for 50AE, I just need to get a better idea of where to start and be familiar enough with the terms and methods used that I don't screw up a thousand rounds and 2 guns in one sitting.
where did you find molds for the 50 AE?
I had my first successful cast for 9 and 38 I hit a bn of 14.9. What bn do I use for 223 and 308?
I found the Bhn formula on Missouri Bullets site
Should I use gas checks on all my lead reloads or is there a certain time too use them?
Thanks for this finger nail test. I use wheel weighs Thai I melt the metal clips and impurities out .then pour into ingot's. Then I mix 9 pounds of w.w lead with one pound of pure tin .flux the melt with pine sawdust and water drop my cast bullets. That's just what works good for me. 38/357 30/30.
killer 65 - Wheel weights all by themselves are great for up to light magnum pistol. With the extra tin, you should be good for magnum pistol, plus gain the added flow from the tin to fill out your bullets... Continued good castin' to ya, FC
Goo 411, Thank you.. BUT how hard should the lead be for shooting out of a Glock .45 using their factory Poly barrel?
Thank you
lawgiver1-AHA!! That's the $64,000 question that has no answer…We are 1) not supposed to shoot reloads in our Glock factory barrels and 2) not supposed to shoot lead bullets thru our Glock factory barrels. That having been said, the answer is BHN 16 (18 is not needed as Glocks feed very reliably - however, use a good auto pistol bullet like the Lee TL 230 RN with the little shoulder; use the Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die with the barest little crimp possible) and medium speed powder like Unique or AA5 or Universal. Best Regards
FortuneCookie45LC
Thank you for the fast answer. I use the same bullet and die you listed, however I use 5 gr. of bullseye.
lawgiver1 There was a gunwriter years ago that used 5 grains of Bullseye/230 bullet. I forgot who it was, but he called the 5 grains "…a stiff tot of Bullseye". Have a great day...
Just a tip. Buy a lee reloading manual, it goes into great detail on this subject plus I think they make the best molds and etc. At the best prices. Can't go wrong on this.
45 LC!!!! I need your help. I am a little confused about the difference’s in antimony, super hard and linotype. I have about 30 pounds of pure lead. I am not sure how and what to mix with it.
Very interesting. Thank you for the information.
Lead drafting pencils can also be used to test lead hardness.
Where did you get this information from: Is there a reloading book with this information?
Thank you for your teachings.
What hardness do you recommend for a 30/30 gallery load in a 336 marlin please
I've got a question, I recently started casting and coating 9mm. They are 147 grains and the speed should be 900fps, haven't chronod because I had allot of tumblers. Then I noticed my bullets were sized by my brass. I ruled out seating and crimping since I seated without crimp and the same issue remains. My barrel is slugged .355, I tried .356 and .357 bullets. But they all size down do around .352-.353 in my case. BHN is 18 with the pencil test. I still have old lubed bullets and some coated that I once bought. Their hardness is 26-28 and even higher then H2 pencil.
I've got 30 year old lee carbide sizing die's. They size my case to .374 outside diameter. When I pull the harder bullets they are not deformed anything. Though I noticed my .356 plated bullets deform slightly to .355. Do you have any possible tips? Do I need to increase lead hardness by adding tin and antimony?
Edit: OAL is 28.87mm
I still love this video however I’m really struggling to mix antimony with clean premelted ingots of wheel weight lead (10bhn) to make 24 bhn but can't seem to get above 15. The antimony seems to oxidise before it melts into the lead. I am using candle-wax as a flux and have tried submerging the antimony in the melted lead in a LEE melting pot for 30+ minutes at 350 degrees Celsius (650 Fahrenheit) but it still just leaves a grainy substance on the surface like it’s not actually melted / dissolved properly. I've also tried a direct flame into a cast iron pot but that only melts the lead and oxidises the antimony. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. A video showing your process of creating 20+ bhn would be even better because I can't seem to find any on TH-cam.
Pure Antimony melts at something like 1100° F, it's very difficult to alloy together with lead unless you have a _very_ hot pot. Ideally, you want to melt it together under an inert gas like argon in a furnace or kiln to reduce oxidation and get up to higher temps. It is much easier to just buy pre-alloyed lead from something like Rotometals or ebay, I actually just bought 20 pounds of 30/70 from Rotometals, 20lbs is enough to harden about 300 pounds of pure lead with the addition of a couple pounds of zinc. Once it is alloyed the melting temperature is much lower, which is why the vast majority of casters buy pre-alloyed bars, the equipment needed to alloy pure Antimony isn't worth the cost unless you're producing it commercially.
I’m starting out from pure lead. Do you have a formula for that?
great video. ill have to do the maths on your mixes to see if i can work out the percentages going from pure lead with a purchasable hard alloy. some of us cant get range scrap and pure lead is the only way to start.
Thank you. Now that I have a bunch of lead from varying sources, I need to get bit scientific in my mixes. Setting up dies and measuring, etc have never intimidated me even when a beginner, but this does.
derekec - if you know what your lead is, you can use the free download Lead Hardness Calculator from the Cast Boolits website to set your mixes. e.g. linotype is 84% lead, 12% antimony, 4% tin. Hardball alloy is 92% lead, 6% antimony, 2% tin. Lyman #2 is 90% lead, 5% antimony, 5% tin. Roofing lead is as good as pure lead. Scuba weights are pure lead. Range scrap is 96% lead, 1% tin, 3% antimony. These are plugged into the LHC in pounds and the final BHN of the alloy pops up. You can plug in the BHN you want and the calculator will give you the weights of component alloys to get you there. Good castin’ to ya.. FCSteve
Hey great video.Where do you get the wide meplat mold for what looks like a 45 lc?I have looked for one and can't find it.Thanks
+Mike Harrison - That's the Lee 452 252 SWC - available in 2 cavity molds only (although they will make a 6 for you on special order). It is a good bullet that casts for me at 262 grains. Good shootin' to ya, FC
Spot on and thank you for this very informative video.
craig hemken - And thanks to you for taking the time to post...
Thanks for the info. My Lyman cast bullet handbook says alloys with a BHN between 10 and 15 are suitable for speeds of 1000 to 1800fps. {pg 73 4th ed}. Have been on the fence as to what BHN to order using Titegroup 4.5gr in a 357mag. Lee manual says 1028fps for this load with a 158gr lead bullet. Would I be better off using a BHN of 18 or 12 with this load in a Henry lever action? Going to use MBC bullets since I do not cast my own bullets. Any info would be appreciated. Enjoy your videos. Would like to see you do a video on using the Lewis Lead Remover system to clean a rifle. thanks
larry munninghoff - When it comes to all those hardness issues, our best policy is to use proper fitting bullets as the first priority...that will really be the factor that will keep us smiling shooting cast bullets. The hardness is really a ballpark thing and using BHN 18 in your Henry is a very good idea...your longer barrel will warrant the harder alloy Missouri Bullets gives you a good reliable bullet and BHN 18 will serve you well - even if you stoke your loads, you've got hardness to spare...and unless you are shooting cowboy action the BHN 18 has the lattitude to handle it (if shooting BHN 22 bullets - too hard and could lead barrel shooting light loads)...If you do cowboy action, Missouri BHN 12 is it. Have a great day, FC
Wouldn’t powder coating eliminate the lead issue altogether?
When it comes to lead for older/lighter load guns, like say the 455 webley, do you want to go softer or harder? It seems that this falls sort of into the cowboy action territory?
Also, what about the relationship between the cylinder chambers, forcing cone, and barrel? My buddy has one and he's going on about how he keeps measuring and he's only coming out to 450-452, but he's measuring improperly (in my opinion) with calipers. I told him to slug it, but he seems apprehensive. He loaded up some 262 gr over I believe 3.9gr Bullseye, but he's worried that the 455 bullet size (with 15 BHN) may cause pressure spikes and damage the gun? It is an unshaved standard cylinder mark 6 webley.
Fortune Cookie45- Very many thanks for your erudite reply. As you say there is a great deal of confusion over the BHN of pure lead, I think the most important thing to keep in mind is that we, as shooters, are really only looking for a testable hardness so that we can repeat an alloy that we find to shoot well, the actual true hardness in scientific value really means very little, now that most serious reloaders have a means of testing lead hardness with their own testers I am sure they can see the reason for some "off loads" due to the batch of alloy used, my problem has been in getting the BHN above 7.7 ! I have even alloyed in Solder (Lead, Antimony, Tin), without getting a very high reading on my Lee tester, which got a very good write up on the Los Angeles Silhouette Club review, I have even considered mixing in some hard Babbit, but have not yet tried that. This is all part of the very enjoyable pursuit of reloading ones own ammunition.
Englishman French - I have found RotoMetals Superhard alloy 30% Sb, to be the slam-dunk route to bullet alloy hardness. I know shipping complicates the cost, but at the last word, orders over $199 get free shipping. The word is out now on lead alloys anywhere including solder - it's all getting costly. The good thing is that we can be very happy shooting standard loadings with softer lead supplies…There was a day long ago in a galaxy far, far away where I bought 18" little 3/4" diameter bars of 50/50 lead/tin solder for 25 cents a bar (a gallon of gasoline was 49 cents as I recall). My wife tells me to stop lamenting, and just move forward… Best to ya...
What is the correct BNH if your shooting 45acp out of a 1911. We are talking about around 700-850+. What is the proper mix and can you help me with this please.
I have heard that water quenching only hardens the bullets temporarily, but I have never put much stock in that. Obviously once they are melted it is reversed but do you think they stay harder until they are melted? What is your opinion?
I'm new to casting, in fact I actually haven't cashed anything yet, i'm still doing research and trying to decide if that's the route I want to go. With that said my biggest concern is the right ratio to use, the two calibers I would be casting is 9mm and .223. My question is if I was using wheels weights and then powder coated them, will I still need to add tin and antimony?
Jason Krohn - Plain wheel weights is good to be used straight up for our pistol shooting up to light magnums. In the past, the famous gun writers like Skeeter Skelton did all their pistol shooting with wheel weights. But one thing, the most current lead wheel weights are a bit softer than the wheel weights of the past...if you powder coat the bullets, the difference should not matter. If no PC, than you might need to add some linotype if you intend to shoot cast in your magnum handguns. Probably a 4 WW to 1 Lino mix. Please come back for other questions...otherwise, my playlist on Cast Bullets should give you lots of information. Happy Thanksgiving, FC
Great video! I had a lot of the same questions. I was using my Lyman 49th edition to load 44 Mag with 200 grain cast bullets and it said to use Linotype bullets. Hodgden load data wasn't specific about the hardness just loaded on the conservative side and didn't have anything above 1,039fps depending on the powder. Which makes me ask, why does the powder make a difference? We are well under max pressures so is a faster burning powder better for cast bullets or a slower burning powder.
velocity550- All powders running to appropriate SAAMI pressure levels work well with cast bullets. It's all nitrocellulose, nitroglycerine, nitroguanine with retardants, detergents and stabilizers in flakes, spheres, donuts, rods --- Best Regards
where do I buy this alloy for mixing?
What would 20 to 1 lead to tin be? A 45/70 match shooter says it perfect and he lets it cool in a dry pan. Also would this mushroom? Do you have different standards for a hunting bullets? Thanks
Does bullet hardness have anything to do with bullet weight?
Thank you you’re the best 👍👍
Very informative about what bhn is 25-1 lead to tin? I shoot mostly low velocity big bore revolvers for plinking.
taylorman1949 - If you water quench that and age it for a week - BHN should be around 11 perfect for your plinking rounds.
Once again I learn something from your videos! My dilemma right now is I cast up 100 Lee .452 swc that are supposed to weigh 252 grains. Yet they average at 260 gr. What gives? The lead is soft. I can dent/scratch it with my thumbnail. I am wanting to shoot this out of my pietta 1858 Remington with a conversion cylinder and I’m having a hard time finding load data for such.
mark perez what powder are you using I have a 1858 re with a conversion and I use 200 gr rnfp and use trailboss and drive them around 900fps no leading and shoots good
Does powder coating change any of these bhn numbers?
Ok I’m new at this so if you powder coat your bullets and their still a soft lead will they still expand for the rifling to work? Any help appreciated.
Dear FortuneCookie45LC; I started casting 9mm 125 grain Round Nose. I am using %50 Linotype and %50 Pure Lead and water quenching. Is this a good hardness or shall i make it softer? Ty for advice again, u are saint.
Ruhsuz When you mix 50-50 lino and pure, you get an alloy called HardBall. It is very similar to Lyman #2 in performance and suitable for all heavy revolver and auto pistol bullets...With your water quenching, you are good to go...Good reloadin' to ya
What a great video
What should be added is Black Powder velocity, Hornady lead balls are B-5 and those velocities can be into the 800-1100 fps. The question is why can those be so soft?
Our range is mostly .22LR, soft lead. And High Antimony and Tin must be added, btw An-timm-money isn't cheap, so I add magnum shot.
Thank you for that info I will miss your videos they have so much info on them
Many Thanks !
How do I make cast bullets from known hardness lead. U said tin is needed to make casting flow. How much tin? I have range at 12 bhn. I bought super hard and tin from rotometals. How much of each to make 15 bhn and 18 bhn?
Good info. I don't cast but its nice to know what cast bullets to buy and use. When do you need to use a gas check on a cast bullet? Thanks! BTW some of your text boxes in the video are popping up with nothing in them.
toy collector - Thanks for the heads up...we can't even use the text boxes now, as when we do the cards and end screens, annotations cannot be used. GCs on cast bullets for rifle shooting makes sense. For handguns, GCs are not necessary - but if a shooter wants to use them for whatever reason deemed fit, they can be applied. Some cast bullet designs are gas check designs giving shooters the option to use them or not. Very few of my handgun bullet designs include gas checks. Have a great day, FC
Yet another excellent and informative video from your site. However there is one flaw, and that is lead is 5 BHN, not 8.6 BHN, this would make quite a bit difference to the calculations.
Englishman French - There is some confusion over that. I've wrestled with this one for a while, and no one has brought it up until now. So thank you for bringing it up. Rotometals is a major supplier of bullet casting alloys and materials for over 75 years, and I have referred casting and lead questions to them on occasion - they always answer. RM has a formula for the calculation of BHN based on the mix of the alloy beginning with pure lead at 8.6. BHN = 8.6 + .26(%Tin) + .92(%Sb). I've been using their formula to excellent effect for 15+ years. Yes, I do know that Wikipedia says BHN 5, and some other posters use that. My take on that is everyone is cool as the RM formula may be shorting on the .26 or the .92 so all the numbers on final BHNs balance out. Also, because I water quench and age harden my castings I'm adding somewhere less than 2 BHN from that. The end result, we're probably all at the same place. You notice that I did not bother to present the formula in the video (thought about it, but gets too technical - like some of the forums - puts some viewers to sleep-they will fly away with that) and also can confuse esp. with the 8.6. RM has great connections with all those forums and the LASC boosts RM as well. I'm going to go with an expert in the field over what Wikipedia says (maybe Wik is using a different BHN scale - doesn't matter - my lead is good and it's not worth pursuing that). Best Regards to you, and sorry this was so long - it is a record length reply for me...
+Englishman French - Yes, it does make a big difference. No doubt what saves me is that Elmer Keith used pretty soft bullets in his magnum development work and he never leaded his barrels - he had good bullet fit to his guns. I realize the disparity from 5 to 8. I just use the 8 from the formula on the RotoMetals home page (bottom) they call pure lead 8 and the formula worked for me without fail, so I'm not about to change my operations...I do realize that controversy though. Since RM has been supplying caster alloys for 75 years, I figure I can go with their formula OK... Best to ya, lFC
Heya Brother, very nice video, great info, Thanks
Robbie Fortner-And a good day to you, sir…thanks for the good word...
FCLC45, as you already know, I'll be casting with 99% pure lead, 1% tin (.22/17-grain air-gun ammo), but if I wanted to make my lead a little harder, yet keep the melting point below 1000-f., what alloy/s do you recommend I mix with my 99% pure lead? Does tin actually make lead harder or does it just make lead shinier and flow better when molten? If you could recommend which item would be best for me to order from RotoMetals in order to make my 99% pure lead a little harder, what would it be? Thank you in advance very much, agw.
AirGunWarriors - Yes, tin is responsible for making our alloys flow and cast well. Antimony is the best hardener. The traditional alloy used to harden our softer lead is linotype (4% tin, 12% antimony). But RMs has created something even better - Superhard alloy (30% antimony). And, RM has a formula that will help you calculate how much to mix to get the hardness you want...Best Regards
I have always been told that the proper gauges to use is pressure instead of feet per second. The reason being that pressure allows what if any leading is going to happen with each individual load and using the same weight bullet for. Each test.
John Smith - You are absolutely right. Pressure is the better consideration for bullet hardness optimization. But since we don't have pressure equipment, the relationship between pressure and fps is relational enough for us to go with it...and those that tell you that bullet casting is a precision activity so that bullet hardness should be in tenths of BHN or weigh the components to make the alloy and control the temp to the degree are missing the point. A good bullet that fits the gun is the name of the game. Buffalo hunters made their bullets from buffalo chip fires the night before the shoot, and they nearly extinguished the entire species from the North American continent. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
Hey FC, I'm using right now pure lead ( roofing lead from a scrap yard ) for my 125 gr bullets for cowboy loads. Would quenching them in water add enough hardness to get buy or do I need to PC my bullets.
+Nick J -- I know you have heard that you can get spectacular hardness by quenching, but I haven't found that to be the case. You cannot rely on quenching to harden more than 1 or 2 BHN - that is still worth getting of course. People use their fancy lead testers, but if two users use the same lead tester, they wind up with different readings. Lead hardness is not the primary factor in clean accurate shooting bullets anyway - the bullet fit to the gun is the most important factor for cast bullet success. (note: jacketed bullets of caliber do not have the same requirements - they are good to go most of the time - just drive them fast enough to obturate and they will shoot even if they don't start off fitting the gun - if cast bullets do not obturate by their fit before they are shot, they will lead the gun - and then they won't shoot well and will only increase the leading build up) Back to your question, at the low cowboy velocities, you can shoot your 125 pure lead bullets - I recommend you start with .358 - .359" bullets with 45/45/10 easy lube. Marlin micro groove barrels will need at least .360". And yes, you can definitely PC the bullets - we have already discussed the OK legality of PC in cowboy action... Success to you, FC
No bullets have to have arsenic in the material to take a temper. Pure lead has none.
For 300 BO pistol bullets, what BH would you recommend and how does powder-coating affect BH??? I saw elvis ammo shooting some Lee 223 powder-coated bullets @ 2500fps.
Match the velocity...FPS to BHN & you will have great success.
Bhn 12. 850fps max.
Bhn 15/16 1000fps max
Bhn 17/18. 1700fps max
Bhn 20/21. 2100fps max.
Power coatings help give you some leeway on the hardness or softness of your alloys by a point or 2 but don't get carried away. P/C only can do so much. Also this BHN vs FPS is an excellent estimate. For example I cast a bhn 16 air cooled , 240gr 44 cal keith bullet that I Power coat in eastwood ford lite blue that I consistently push to 1400fps & NEVER get ANY trace of leading. So experiment & have fun.
How do mix pure lead for lead#18 can u tell what do i need to buy please
Awesome reference video FC45LC! Thank you for sharing your casting formulas!
SomeGuyInSandy - Note that 80% or more of our shooting can be done with just plain good old Range Scrap - no need to add expensive Linotype or Superhard (I haven't checked the RotoMetals prices recently) unless we are stokin' 'em... :) Best Regards
What got me was how you described the leading process, and how bullets that are harder than they need to be act if they don't seal the barrel. Great explanation, and easy to visualize. I always learn something new on your channel!
***** Appreciate the good word - Springtime in the Great American NorthWest !! Best Regards
***** Appreciate the good word - Springtime in the Great American NorthWest !! Best Regards ... Good old Google, always trying to mess with our replies...
Wish I had seen this a few years ago as it would have given me a starting point. After much trial and error and much learning, I came to the conclusion that my Shiloh Sharps 45-110 running right around 1400 ish fps works best at BHN 13 and NO LEADING at all. Any faster than that results in hours of lead removal.
BTW, NO ONE needs to buy an expensive hardness tester or use the somewhat ambiguous "thumbnail test" ( no offence) but a good set of staedtler pencil works great. Do a bit of research on how the pencil helps determine hardness and put a written reference scale inside the pencil set cover for reference and it will work very well at low cost. This allows you to get a reasonably accurate assessment of hardness at low cost.
I have two places that I get my cast bullets and one says there are BN 20 and the other say that theres are 21. So there not that much difference in the two bullets, correct?
mike mull - Your suspicions are well regarded. There is no significant difference between 20-21 for us. Fit of bullet to the gun is the critical issue. 1 BHN can be had just by letting bullets sit for 2 weeks...Best to ya...
When you get up into the 20's for Brinell hardness, you're pretty much running Linotype alloy.
I am just starting to get interested in casting. I plan on casting plinking loads for a 44-40, 38-40, 38-55, 30-30, and maybe 45-70. Is there an alloy that will work well with all of these calibers so that I can buy in bulk so to speak?
gnomehater63 - If you are going to buy alloy, RotoMetals has Lyman #2 alloy - it is industry standard for cast bullet alloy and will do well for all the calibers you list. Since you are beginning, that is a great way to start for uniform results. Later, you will be mixing your own alloys - easy with more experience. Please come back to let us know how you are progressing. Best Regards, FC
Thanks FC. I have a mismatch of scrap lead from fishing weights, other projects, etc but I want to get it right the first time with a proper alloy as these rounds will be going through original winchesters and sharps that I inherited. Thanks for the awesome videos, they are a huge help.
gnomehater63 - Wow!! Congrats on inheriting those old historical guns...you might check them out though - might have dark bores from shooting black powder, and if so, they may function well but may require that you shoot black powder rounds through them because of the strength of the steels...Best to ya, FC
A very clean and very clear explanation !!
Tx
joao afonso Marreiros- Thanks for the good word and for taking the time to post it… Have a great Lone Star day!!
Last year I shot a .22 hornet with water dropped wheel weight lead for my bullets and it worked perfectly. I was going to use the same lead in my .38 special at under 900fps, but I didn't realize a bullet that is too hard is bad. Question for you: Should I try to harden some pure lead I have or soften the wheel weight lead?
Todd ster - Sorry for the delay in this reply - Whenever Google does not post a comment in my inbox, I won't see it for months...perhaps never... Great question, too... Wheel Weights can be used with good effect for all handgun shooting straight up. I used to buy wheel weights 300 pounds at a time as well as get all the wheel weights I could from tire shops and car dealerships. Used it for everything including all out 44 mags with excellent results. But then wheel weights were taken out of circulation by edict. Now, I'm using free range scrap and hardening with linotype or SupreHard alloy as needed - and loving it!! My bullet metal cost is hardly worth including in computations. The too hard does not apply until you get higher than BHN 18. Harder than BHN 18 can be problematic unless the bullets start out at the right diameter (+.001-.002 bigger than revolver cylinder throats or .001-.002 bigger than groove diamter rifles and pistols), if small, the harder alloy will have a harder time obturating and barrel leading will result. Best to ya, FC
Hello I need some advice on mixing linotype with wheel weights the linotype I got from eBay is dirty when I add it to the ww it stays floating on top of the pot is there a method to get them to mix I tried wax to Flux didn't help this is my first experience with linotype and need some advice
+Francisco Maestas - You have some bad alloy there. Linotype mixes readily and cleanly with any lead alloy. If you had clean and added that linotype and got no mix / float on top, the problem is with the alloy you are adding. If what is floating is separate from the alloy, it is dirt or slag and can be skimmed off easily. leaving a clean alloy after fluxing. This is good as any tin or antimony in your add will give you harder alloy than when you started - that was the whole idea of adding linotype after all. If it is curdly and is merged with your lead, it might be zinc contamination and you have a real hard time trying to skim it clean, you might have to throw out the whole mix. Your experience using linotype should be a good, easy one. I've never gotten any bad linotype in 40 years of casting. Good castin' to ya - FC
I just bought 500 Hi-Tek 200 gr bullets from Missouri Bullet Company to load for my 10mm. They say there bullets are BHN of 18. I asked them if I could load my bullets to 1200 FPS, and they said absolutely, no problem. I also asked if O can load their 180 gr bullets to 1300 FPS, and they assured me I would be completely fine doing that. Would you agree with loading Brinell 18 bullets to full 10mm power, at these velocities?