99% hate watchers but I've tried hate watching his streams live and theyre just too dull, I can't do it. I think people who hate watch may be just as dented as the dents
How are he and Kat supposed to afford Doordash for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with a measly 7 dollars in tips. Hopefully his dents step up to fill the void
For real how can people expect Dave to pay his own bills with no support? That isn’t fair everyone enjoys the life changing meaningful content and need to step up with support
>put ridiculous restrictions before you are allowed to chat >ban anyone who does make it through those restrictions >complain that you only have 4 chatters 😂
And people chilling and talking to each other is a great way to build a community. The idiot does not understand how blessed he is to have the following he does. All he needs to do is be a decent human and let them enjoy their time. Plus he doesn't enjoy the game anyway so why does he insist people only talk about the game? It'd do him some good to just talk about life with his dents. Then again, his dents probably don't have the most enjoyable life...
The terrifying thing is AAA devs think there is an entire audience of DSPs they should cater to. They literally have used his footage before in these meetings
He's so avoidant of any female interaction that BG3 "forced" him into getting married to Halsin, the male bear druid. Even the games know how deep in the closet he is.
Keep in mind that the viewer just asked "What did the game do wrong?" No insults or anything and that is how he was treated, also he was immediately banned just because of this...
My god, how much Stockholm Syndrome do his 'fans' have? He's only talking down to and outright insulting them... And he is still getting money (however small) for it!
I love when piggy looks stressed after a slow stream and starts trying to come up with excuses. He will never admit it’s him being a horrible streamer and person. Keep yelling at your dents Phil I’m sure that will get tips rolling in
Blame it on RPG overload. If his dents had money to keep tipping BG3 for months they are basically withholding money with these trash games. Funny actually, that DSP regardless of everything is being played like a fiddle by his few dents and it's hilarious!
He tries to brute force everything. "Go to a party? Okay, surely whenever i decide to showup it'll be going on." I wonder how many quests he'll fail or miss out on if he legit kept waiting around and going at the wrong time day after day. One of the hallmarks of Dragon's Dogma was that NPC's often times won't wait around for the 'hero' to showup.
1:39 I feel like Phil's been in this position before, everyone being invited to a party but when he asks for the address so he can go they give him a random address because no one wants to be around him 🤣
I think this rage comes from him sitting up at night reading comments on his videos and twitter. He then sees a collective majority call him slow, stupid, or a dunce and he gets triggered. Since he's on his own and can't "admit" he reads comments at night, he holds it in. He then waits for someone to say something slick during his live chat just to unload on them like in this video. This dude is absolutely pathetic.
Phil said he loved the first Dragons Dogma. This game plays exactly like the first yet he hates it. Maybe the reason he liked the first game is because he was still swimming in money back then and had an army of dents giving him their high level pawns to cheese the game…
I like how he keeps blaming too many RPGs when really its just Dave feeling the pressure of his dents not having as much disposable income due to the economy.
I'm not sure it's that, I think it's the opposite. If he acknowledges it's okay to do romance stuff in games it means he is saying Kat can do that too and that's what he is afraid of.
his life is entirely online and the only “people” he interacts with outside of her(if he even interacts with her) are NPCs in games, his brain has wired into thinking that exactly. that’s how much of a loser he is lmfao
I'm so sick of his rpg scapegoat. No one has ever had this mythical "RPG overload" he loves to boast about. It's all you, Phil. Nothing else. Also, not everyone plays every single game so half assed like you do. You've boxed yourself into this stupid mentality of having to play every single game release.
7:55 "No RPG gets support.." He is incapable of understanding, even after years of dwindling support...the the reason is HIM. He is the sole reason for No Support. 😈
so lemme get this straight, he thinks the industry "screwed" itself up because there's a lot of RPGs being released this year and they don't make any money for him? 😂😂😂
Even though everyone else has been using these games for a mountain of profitable content. There are several RPG dedicated TH-cam and Twitch channels, doing fine. It's gotta be another bugged mechanic in this crooked unfair life of Phil's.
"people were falling asleep." My guy you spent an hour running around in a circle trying to enter a party because the thought never occurred to you to come back the next day or talk to the doorman. It isn't the game
DSP is probably the only person on this planet who's time is absolutely worthless. Every other person's time has value cause they could improve but he can't and since he decided to only take good vibes and money out of society his time isn't worth any other way either
no tekken, no ff7, no stellar blade, no more bully. he's been consistently picking most boring playthroughs that no one asked for. I'd like to believe the dents have finally got annoyed enough with just how dismissive he is to their feedback, but I know better than to be that optimistic.
"How's the games fault? " DSP : "Because it doesn't tell you how to do it. Does it expect magically where to go, how to do it" Uh.. That's how a game is suppose to be. You figure things out on your own, you explore, discover, invest time into search for the right answers, you try and experiment. It's not an Ikea furniture, IT'S A VIDEOGAME ! LOL !
I have been playing this game a lot in the past week and played the original. I didn't know there was a sundial in the pause menu, BUT you can see the transition of the day whenever you sit and past the time. It goes Early Morning, Midday, Evening, Night. It's hilarious to me that he can never figure anything out or work through a problem if he isn't given each step to solve it. It's like he has no knowledge or insight of anything which makes him unable to figure anything out.
I don't think there is? Pretty sure there isn't one in the first one. I just replayed it before DD2 released and never noticed it. I'm assuming it was a troll.
Regardless, Brant tells you to attend at night. Logically, I went to my house and slept until night and everything worked fine for me. He must have done something weird.
not only did dave make under $100 today by a good margin, but we also got another pahsitive hard R drop, that's 3 since may 2021 but he didnt mean to dood! he was trying to say something else!
How many times has Phil told another man “f*ck you” to their face in real life??hilarious when he was talking to the sidescrollers he was so passive and even used a softer tone of voice definition of a peon
This guy DOES NOT enjoy video games, he only does this cuz of MONEY, if he actually enjoyed it he would remember things about video games he played in past... Dunce Level Mentality i guess, Glad his channel is dyin, SoOoOoOo glad...
DPS a non-gamer that doesn't learn and figure things out by playing the game, he cries at any challenge and then looks/demands chat to tell him what to do.
Phil for the thousand time you are the boss of “the business!” You have control of what you do for work. You overloaded your dents on rpgs. You yell at them more than usual. Of course there is discourse in the pigcult
Yelling at viewers, auditing, blaming the game. The robust and meaningful chill-style vibes will save the business. Oh I forgot, people don't like RPGs anymore. Yeah thats not aggressively regarded at all.
Rpgs are supposed to be played in several ways at the player's taste, yet phil plays it the most vanilla, basic ass character with 0 interesting gameplan or personality while complaining about everything, and if not he's just saying what is happening on screen
It’s you Phil, not the fact Dragons Dogma 2 is another RPG. Plenty of other people playing it on TH-cam getting lots of views. Maybe it’s because they aren’t harassing their viewers for engagement and contributions and moaning about RPG overload then picking another RPG.
IF Phil gets up to the Sphinx, 100% he's going to whinge and complain about all the riddles but he literally has the pawn required for one of them now and he won't even remember...
Love the mental gymnastics he does to justify how shitty his streams are doing "ITS THE RPGS, ITS THE RPGS FAULT" he said it like 5 or 6 times to hammer it home
If a game is not holding Phils hand it is a waste if time.. If Phil need to actually think and read and understand it is a waste of time... Very meaningful and robust...
![ร้อยพ่อพันแม่ - WanMai [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XY2pNYASEbg/mqdefault.jpg)
"Let's say you have a sandwich shop, and it's failing. And when a customer finally comes, you swear at them and call them a moron"
who tf seriously watches this guy? what a miserable stream
rpg’d out dood
99% hate watchers but I've tried hate watching his streams live and theyre just too dull, I can't do it. I think people who hate watch may be just as dented as the dents
@@veezuhlife how in the world are you here in the detractorsphere 😹
He has a miserable life. 😂
It's not him doode, it's the stupid games that are boring. He's the best streamer alive like real tawlk!
How are he and Kat supposed to afford Doordash for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with a measly 7 dollars in tips. Hopefully his dents step up to fill the void
All those doordash stories on his fake podcast along with his verbal-punishing personality explains kat's stature
Dave definitely has *Leave at door” option enabled on skip the dishes to avoid human interaction
Disability checks probably hit this week, so they will contribute like they always do.
For real how can people expect Dave to pay his own bills with no support? That isn’t fair everyone enjoys the life changing meaningful content and need to step up with support
Fr so sad, I wonder what makes people not drop a 100 dollar tip on the people's streamer, DSP😢
>put ridiculous restrictions before you are allowed to chat
>ban anyone who does make it through those restrictions
>complain that you only have 4 chatters
😂
he is so unself aware
This is why Phil has been a failure for over a decade.
And people chilling and talking to each other is a great way to build a community. The idiot does not understand how blessed he is to have the following he does. All he needs to do is be a decent human and let them enjoy their time. Plus he doesn't enjoy the game anyway so why does he insist people only talk about the game? It'd do him some good to just talk about life with his dents. Then again, his dents probably don't have the most enjoyable life...
even the dents get banned when they give him "wrong" suggestions lol
he is incredibly insecure
Game is so realistic, they invited DSP to a party and no one showed up, lol.
He's so ridiculous. If the game doesn't tell him EXACTLY what to do, its stupid. What a fucking regard.
He doesn't have critical thinking skills even to play a game. What a sad piece of a human.
He chose the wrong game to play if he wants hand holding. Though I guess he expected chat to tell him how to do everything.
DarkSydeBeggard
The terrifying thing is AAA devs think there is an entire audience of DSPs they should cater to. They literally have used his footage before in these meetings
His legacy has been nothing but a detrament to anything he touches
He literally only alternates between complaining about the game or not getting enough money, and insulting viewers. That's it. His only two moods.
This dude is SOOOOOO weird when it comes to anything that involves sex. It's genuinely embarrassing how uncomfortable he gets lol
He's so avoidant of any female interaction that BG3 "forced" him into getting married to Halsin, the male bear druid. Even the games know how deep in the closet he is.
Its especially weird when you compare it to how excited he gets talking about poop, dicks, balls and ass
He's 100% gay
At this point, the 40+ year old virgin just needs to shut up about things he doesn't understand but won't
"I don't need to get 4.000 STDs from being in here"....What? But he found a chest at the back door.....he's so transparent.
Keep in mind that the viewer just asked "What did the game do wrong?" No insults or anything and that is how he was treated, also he was immediately banned just because of this...
My god, how much Stockholm Syndrome do his 'fans' have? He's only talking down to and outright insulting them... And he is still getting money (however small) for it!
Eternal Napalm is the last of the old guard. Phil lost everyone else.
And today for this hissy fit he’s gonna get 200 bucks just watch
they have a fetish
They’re not all there mentally. Look up some of his dents sometime.
the absolute meltdown over the sundial message is insane.
ikr, a simple no would have been fine 😂
Every time sex gets hinted at, he gets awkward as hell, like a claustrophobe stuck in a box desperately trying to escape. What's wrong with this guy?
🌈 🌈 🌈 or maybe his gout ridden aunt diddled him
>Terrible gameplay
>Attacks his own chat
>Trashes the game
>”Why aren’t I getting any donations????”
the amount of entitlement he believes he has to tips is amazing
dood, its an ahbservashun
"Its not about the money, dood!" - unironically DSP
"I played video games... you owe me money!"
Bugged support mechanics dood, I've got bills to pay guys and I'm not sure I'm going to able to make it through this month!
"Why am I taking damage" he said while standing in fire.
I'm pretty convinced that he has a deep seated trauma of consistently wearing dunce caps when he was young.
I love when piggy looks stressed after a slow stream and starts trying to come up with excuses. He will never admit it’s him being a horrible streamer and person. Keep yelling at your dents Phil I’m sure that will get tips rolling in
Blame it on RPG overload. If his dents had money to keep tipping BG3 for months they are basically withholding money with these trash games. Funny actually, that DSP regardless of everything is being played like a fiddle by his few dents and it's hilarious!
No WWE Champion rolls tonight.
Hmmm, if I play fighting games no one tips. If I play RPGs no one tips...if I react, no one tips. Hmmm what on earth could the problem be?!
'go to the ball between midnight and dawn' - Game says. DSP 'the game doesnt tell you when to go there its broken~!!'
What's his pawn ID?? I have tons of rotten scrags and fish I want to get rid off
Do you have 60 skulls?
i have a bunch of counterfeit ferrystones (ferristones)
@@torkhi6349gimme
That shit
$7 dollar streams are great! Can almost get a big mac for fat horse
The door man would tell him that there were no masquerades that day if he asked and all he had to do was to rest for a day
Knew it lmfao
hilarious.
How was he supposed to know that DOOD, the game didn't tell him!
He tries to brute force everything. "Go to a party? Okay, surely whenever i decide to showup it'll be going on."
I wonder how many quests he'll fail or miss out on if he legit kept waiting around and going at the wrong time day after day. One of the hallmarks of Dragon's Dogma was that NPC's often times won't wait around for the 'hero' to showup.
I like how he thought the empty room is a party 😂
Another SCORN-style begment rant 😂😂😂
Recurring more and more frequently, lately.
1:39 I feel like Phil's been in this position before, everyone being invited to a party but when he asks for the address so he can go they give him a random address because no one wants to be around him 🤣
I think this rage comes from him sitting up at night reading comments on his videos and twitter. He then sees a collective majority call him slow, stupid, or a dunce and he gets triggered. Since he's on his own and can't "admit" he reads comments at night, he holds it in. He then waits for someone to say something slick during his live chat just to unload on them like in this video. This dude is absolutely pathetic.
Definitely - remember he manually approves every TH-cam comment so he has to read every single one
Phil said he loved the first Dragons Dogma. This game plays exactly like the first yet he hates it.
Maybe the reason he liked the first game is because he was still swimming in money back then and had an army of dents giving him their high level pawns to cheese the game…
He also grinded to make the whole playthrough mindless
Guess what, he didn't really like the first one either.
@@DoctorKarkand did you watch the playthrough?
@@hemogoblin69 I watched the TIHYP. He kept his character very heavy or overburdened and complained about dumb stuff as always.
@@DoctorKarkand imo he seemed to like it overall. Complaining is just part of any experience for him
Abuses people who tip and continually shits on the game he's playing then goes shocked Pikachu when nobody tips
I like how he keeps blaming too many RPGs when really its just Dave feeling the pressure of his dents not having as much disposable income due to the economy.
What are you talking about ? Phil told me that inflation isn't real and there's nothing wrong with the economy.
Bans anyone who dares go against what he says and then wonders why chat is dead
What you had for lunch one day in 2011 is the same exact thing as a mechanic in a 50 hour playthrough game you finished. Brilliant comparison.
That giant turd was basically DSP’s entire gaming career summed up.
This is why the god of war ragnarok devs used him as an example of needing to dumb gameplay down
Step it ups dents, don’t you want to see him put on a tie? Wouldn’t that be meaningful?
At what point does he just go to OnlyFans?
Not very meaningful if you ask me, but it is robust.
Someone's panicking about not having enough disposable income for gacha gambling
5:51 he's like worried if he has sex in the game it counts as cheating on khet or something lol..
That's exactly what it is
I'm not sure it's that, I think it's the opposite. If he acknowledges it's okay to do romance stuff in games it means he is saying Kat can do that too and that's what he is afraid of.
his life is entirely online and the only “people” he interacts with outside of her(if he even interacts with her) are NPCs in games, his brain has wired into thinking that exactly. that’s how much of a loser he is lmfao
I'm so sick of his rpg scapegoat. No one has ever had this mythical "RPG overload" he loves to boast about. It's all you, Phil. Nothing else. Also, not everyone plays every single game so half assed like you do. You've boxed yourself into this stupid mentality of having to play every single game release.
He *has* to come up with something to blame since he never does anything wrong. He’s going to blame “rpg overload” for the next year
He doesn't realize RPGs don't work because he's as interesting as a brick. Personality and interactivity carry RPGs, he's got neither.
I watched Luality do multiple playthroughs of BG3, and she always had great support. Then again, she's entertaining.
He plays so many new games because he thinks one of them will be a big hit, so he’s scared of missing out.
@@michaelofthefivesAnd the main one that was a hit for him was a game he hated with every fiber of his being. Chef kisses all around.
Use the tie as a noose.
In real life.
Yup😊
Wow, 7 bucks? Did his dents not yet receive their disability checks?
He needs his hand held children
Haha, nah, not even children would want this much help through a game; they would want to challenge themselves
it’s honestly embarrassing how uncomfortable he gets about sex. this dude is so weird. even baldur’s gate 3 predicted phil being deep in the closet
FF16 says hello. Phil can't stand Benedickta and Jill. XD
FF 16 force him to watch females,nothing he can do dood
Dont forget they are nude as well 😢 poor piggy
Just 2 days of work below 100$ and he is again in panic mode. But he runs a succesful business and is better then us right guys?
VERY profitable business 😂
About to enter a work interview but getting my dose of memeology first TWU
Just remember, you could be Phil..
Good luck
I hope it goes well. Don't ever break eye contact with the lead interviewer. Ever. Even after the interview. Walk to your car backwards if necessary.
Put Josh Saunders down as a reference
Hope it went well
7:55 "No RPG gets support.."
He is incapable of understanding, even after years of dwindling support...the the reason is HIM.
He is the sole reason for No Support. 😈
And for some reason he keeps picking up RPGs even though he has been saying that for a while now
he shits on the game while people who are fans of the game are watching him, oh gee, i wonder why he's not getting support?
$100 tie ain't happening.
I believe the tie is $150. Too hot in Snort Korea for vests, dood.
@@z9ao7vnah he said Tie would replace vest and Vest would jump to 200
DSP shows up to a party and everyone immediately leaves??
It's actually scary how realistic games are getting these days
“Why are you contradictory.” The word is contrarian Phil.
so lemme get this straight, he thinks the industry "screwed" itself up because there's a lot of RPGs being released this year and they don't make any money for him? 😂😂😂
Bingo 😂
Even though everyone else has been using these games for a mountain of profitable content. There are several RPG dedicated TH-cam and Twitch channels, doing fine.
It's gotta be another bugged mechanic in this crooked unfair life of Phil's.
Phil treats his viewers like such trash man
Do they deserve it? Yes, but that's besides the point
Pause menu time indicators are nuanced now.
How inconsiderate of the game industry to release so many RPGs without thinking of how it will affect Phil Burnell and his "job".
Just because DSP complains bitterly every single day, doesn’t mean he won’t recon yesterday to have been much better than today! Morans!
"people were falling asleep." My guy you spent an hour running around in a circle trying to enter a party because the thought never occurred to you to come back the next day or talk to the doorman. It isn't the game
He’s gets this pissed off and frustrated every day for decades and does not consider the common denominator in his life 😂
"Why don't they have watches so I can tell the time dood?"
"I walked in and everyone left." I imagine he gets that a lot.
Wrestlemania is next weekend so he needs that money for the wwe champions specials that are sure to come
When I did this quest, the game 100% told me that the masquerade happens at night (or at midnight). So Phil should have known when to go there...
it's insane that youtube allows this. straight up bullying and manipulating his viewers.
He’s so insignificant they don’t bother with his channel
He’s setting the stage for a nice permanent wage quit
DSP: I'm a mature adult
Also DSP: DOOOD! LOOK AT THAT BIG DOOKIE!
I still can't believe that DSP is a real person and not a character or anything.
DSP is probably the only person on this planet who's time is absolutely worthless. Every other person's time has value cause they could improve but he can't and since he decided to only take good vibes and money out of society his time isn't worth any other way either
no tekken, no ff7, no stellar blade, no more bully. he's been consistently picking most boring playthroughs that no one asked for. I'd like to believe the dents have finally got annoyed enough with just how dismissive he is to their feedback, but I know better than to be that optimistic.
"How's the games fault? "
DSP : "Because it doesn't tell you how to do it. Does it expect magically where to go, how to do it"
Uh.. That's how a game is suppose to be. You figure things out on your own, you explore, discover, invest time into search for the right answers, you try and experiment. It's not an Ikea furniture, IT'S A VIDEOGAME ! LOL !
Chooses to play the sh*t Battlefront port rather than Helldivers 2.
"Why am I barely getting tips and views???"
He has no friends for helldivers 2 😂
"I ran everyone off by being extremely unlikable, why won't anyone talk to me?"
0:30 WOW the devs put his content in the game!
I can’t wait to see him get Dragonsplague and lose his mind.
Hands down the best Pigroach content is when he’s not getting tips, as it radiates into his attitude, commentary, interactions, everything.
So he replaced all RPGs with RPGs to play less RPGs?
He got massively butt hurt hahaha
He should have named his character Butthurtacus.
@@biggsasha hahahahahhaha
"There's a clock on the pause screen"
"WHAT DID YOU EAT 12 YEARS AGO?!?!?"
the salt is real
The best bedtime routine, remembering I'm not phil. Time for a restful sleep.
😂
That's like going to sleep and being proud you're not a junkie. Like wow, good job man. Maybe pick up your goals a bit
@@hemogoblin69 hi derich!
For someone who's tired of talking about the fucking money, he sure does talk about the money a lot.
he wanted so badly to say " and im going to be honest i would like more people SUPPORTING the streams"
I have been playing this game a lot in the past week and played the original. I didn't know there was a sundial in the pause menu, BUT you can see the transition of the day whenever you sit and past the time. It goes Early Morning, Midday, Evening, Night. It's hilarious to me that he can never figure anything out or work through a problem if he isn't given each step to solve it. It's like he has no knowledge or insight of anything which makes him unable to figure anything out.
I don't think there is? Pretty sure there isn't one in the first one. I just replayed it before DD2 released and never noticed it. I'm assuming it was a troll.
Regardless, Brant tells you to attend at night. Logically, I went to my house and slept until night and everything worked fine for me. He must have done something weird.
I can't wait until he's forced to go back to BG3.
People are gonna get tired of it? Wow Phil it's like the world is bored with you Phil
14:38 - 14:46 is definitely a clip that Snort Hogan and Burnell are gonna use from now on. Thank you for the endless receipts Dsp
not only did dave make under $100 today by a good margin, but we also got another pahsitive hard R drop, that's 3 since may 2021 but he didnt mean to dood! he was trying to say something else!
How many times has Phil told another man “f*ck you” to their face in real life??hilarious when he was talking to the sidescrollers he was so passive and even used a softer tone of voice definition of a peon
Phil going into panic mode at the mention of possibly having sex 💀
This guy DOES NOT enjoy video games, he only does this cuz of MONEY, if he actually enjoyed it he would remember things about video games he played in past... Dunce Level Mentality i guess, Glad his channel is dyin, SoOoOoOo glad...
"Whats the sundial?"
No he cannot be serious he HAS to be making it up holy shit
DPS a non-gamer that doesn't learn and figure things out by playing the game, he cries at any challenge and then looks/demands chat to tell him what to do.
Phil for the thousand time you are the boss of “the business!” You have control of what you do for work. You overloaded your dents on rpgs. You yell at them more than usual. Of course there is discourse in the pigcult
Yelling at viewers, auditing, blaming the game. The robust and meaningful chill-style vibes will save the business.
Oh I forgot, people don't like RPGs anymore. Yeah thats not aggressively regarded at all.
Rpgs are supposed to be played in several ways at the player's taste, yet phil plays it the most vanilla, basic ass character with 0 interesting gameplan or personality while complaining about everything, and if not he's just saying what is happening on screen
Its genuinely impressive how easily triggered he gets.
He never grew up mentally.
There's literally 12 year olds more mature than he is. Its absolutely insane
Of course he's playing the big weapon class, which requires positioning and timing with charged attacks
It’s you Phil, not the fact Dragons Dogma 2 is another RPG. Plenty of other people playing it on TH-cam getting lots of views. Maybe it’s because they aren’t harassing their viewers for engagement and contributions and moaning about RPG overload then picking another RPG.
IF Phil gets up to the Sphinx, 100% he's going to whinge and complain about all the riddles but he literally has the pawn required for one of them now and he won't even remember...
If it's "RPG overload" why didn't he pick Rise of the Ronin instead?
Just like real life everyone leaves the party when Phil shows up
How many $40 doordash sandwiches can Dave afford with this terrible support? Kahmahn!
so DD2 didn't save the streams?! 😢
Best overall gamer in the country
He's buying overpriced games
Proceed to complain he has no money
Blame the viewers for not donating
Love the mental gymnastics he does to justify how shitty his streams are doing "ITS THE RPGS, ITS THE RPGS FAULT" he said it like 5 or 6 times to hammer it home
Glad the dents are punishing him for quitting FF7.
Dude didn't even make that much on alone in the dark either 😂
At 6:53 yet he remembers the taste of a sandwich from 15 years ago but can’t remember an obvious mechanic in a game.
If a game is not holding Phils hand it is a waste if time.. If Phil need to actually think and read and understand it is a waste of time... Very meaningful and robust...