This was a cool experiment to see. I have sleeve bags in the front with a pressure based management and I noticed its very inaccurate when I select a preset.
I had sleeves on my 350z a few years ago and I always thought it was my management and that something was wrong. I also always complained how much pressure my fronts bags needed compared to my friends cars and now I know its cause I went sleeves all along. Thanks for this.
Air Lift could solve this with a firmware update to their control system pretty easily. Just have the ability to "overshoot" on the way up (Front, Back, All, etc..) by a certain PSI value while staying under the "max". Then "settling" back to preset pressure as after all, it is a pressure based system. I notice my bellow style in the rear does this as there isn't much weight back there. Then it settles on it's own. Where as the front really doesn't given the additional weight. However, they may not want to as they'd ideally like to sell the height sensor package along with this type of bag. Sure would be a neat feature though.
I wish I knew this when I got my kit installed in my Pacifica. It was driving me crazy trying to figure out why presets weren’t working. Sleeves in front and bags in the rear. I have height sensors but I need to install them yet. Awesome video 👍🏾
When i first got bags the company Vera just released their setup, in like 2017ish. Truhart air struts look just like these in the video, the management i had was pressure based with the front two lines connected to eachother and same for the rears. Eventually got 4 corners to be on individual pressure but understood then that the amount of psi had nothing to do with height. Then upgraded again with their height sensors and they look like some universal tie rods, and during heavy rain one would stop responding. Eventually i had a different shop install airlift 3H management combined with the Truhart airstruts i already had, never had any issues at all since, I wish i understood everything sooner before the install. My first bag went bad a couple months ago after 7 long years of wear and tear, its quite the effort to replace the sleeve but time and patience pays off. Not sure if you guys have a video on replacing sleeve bags, i recall having a hard time finding a clear video on demonstrating the process, if you havent it would be a nice suggestion to help anyone who doesn't have an idea in the future
Fyi, softening up your damper adjustments can potentially get you to your preset height slightly better. When stiffening up the dampers, the management's "brain" will think it has already hit its preset pressure "too soon".
are there any differences between double bellow and triple bellow airbags? i am thinking of changing to triple bellows to get my car lower when getting over obstacles.. any advice?
I have double bellow airlift struts. I would always hear a thump going from aired out to ride height. I'd imagine its the air filling into the double bellows expanding both chambers after being collapsed on it self making that thumping noise. My rears are sleeves and they don't make any sound. Im wondering if that's normal for double bellows to do or something I should be concerned for. Thanks
It's normal. I have double bellow and it does that on my rear bags. It's the bag unfolding from itself. No damage happening. Completely normal and airlift is aware of it.
I had an off topic question. Hopefully u guys can answer. I have airlift and on the manual it states that max air pressure is 120psi, but I’ve seen people on up to 135 psi are they in the wrong or technically can u have it that high ?
@bagriders This was my thinking as well..I have bellows all around my 5th gen camaro and I had to be very careful when buying wheels and tires for my car. Width, offset and tire size because they can rub against those meaty double bellows in the front.
That doesn't matter. Sleeve bags essentially ride softer than bellows. In fact, if you are RWD you'd actually want the softer bags or softer pressure settings (eveb on bellows) set up in the back for "grip". If you stiffen up the rears too much it will be too bouncy, and you'll hop/skip around corners like over-inflated tires.
My question is are Sleeves, softer, then bellows I have bellows and it's like riding on a brick at any pressure it's a static air system only on the rear it becomes bouncy at 20 psi and bodoms out the strut and at 30 psi it's stiff it's like riding on a 2×4 piece of wood it's a bc racing coilover with Double bellow conversion bags any info and help will be greatly appreciated
This is because of the conversion bags and the way they relate to the available travel of your dampers. Check this video out here: th-cam.com/video/f6MzXOzFsB4/w-d-xo.html Also - what year make and model is your car? Your best bet will be to run an off-the-shelf suspension, where an engineer chose the perfect travel range to match the bag and the weight of the vehicle.
very interesting. i've always manually overshoot aired up with the up arrow on my 3p then hit my ride height even with airlift performance double bellows. old habits die hard I guess lol.
They come stock on older Mercedes Benz’s. I had a 2003 Mercedes S class with em, smoothest ride I’ve even felt on any car I mean it was astronomical. I lowered the car on the OE bags about 20 years and 180K and they were still going strong for quite some time despite some neglect from the previous owner. The biggest issue I had besides them eventually developing leaks, was calibrating the height sensors to work when I hit the raise button in the car but man it was great when it did work
One thing to keep in mind, the OEs use a true tapered air spring with a carefully tuned lower piston. Companies like Air Lift, D2 Racing, Tru-hart (all the rest as well) use a straight rolling sleeve. They really aren't equivalent to one another. Production of a true tapered sleeve is very difficult, which is likely why so much of the aftermarket options focus on bellow-based bags,
My exact issue with my evo x . Rolling sleeve bags are used in the rear. Always have to shoot 100psi into the bag to actually lift the var beyond the point I want. Then manually dump the air to get the pressure and ride height I want. Oh well, sacrifices 😅
Dude I’m goin through the same thing on the same car 😂 I was about to buy a whole new management system because I thought something was wrong. Thanks for making me feel better.
Amazing video I am new to air suspension just installed a system on my polo all the way from south africa 🇿🇦 curious to know the difference between sleeve bags and bellow bags
@@trivolandhaver8994 Bellows air bags generally are of a greater size compared to sleeve-style air springs, resulting in higher lifting capability and load-handling capacity. The design of most double bellows air springs permits inflation to the desired firmness and deflation in a similar manner. On the other hand, the sleeve design allows for a more compact overall diameter when constructing this type of air spring, distinguishing it from bellows air springs.
I love my rolling sleeve air bags on the front of 2001 Ford F350 crew cab dually. They will lift my front end about 9" Not bad for having a 7.3 diesel.
Verry upset with 3p the purchase air compressor was hot straight out the box plugging in 2 days later bag popped turning a curb at 60 mph your kit spent 1000 extra on everything said it was designing for my 5th generation bought 2 new compressor with your hard headed company and my part number for my vehicle overnighted 2 bags for the front and they both don’t fit, very terrible experience with bag rides and airlift performance I called at 7 am you guys send the incorrect part to buy and I knew because I just ordered that one with $150 1 day shipping look up the part number of the bag for the kit dosnt even pop up 🤣what a joke call the number they told me and sent me a bag for a Mercedes 🤣i dialed 7 for costumer service said your in a team meeting yall got me so messed up all the way how simple is it to display actual pictures for the part numbers and put the vehicle
Thank you for expressing your interest in Super Low Air Suspension. We value your recommendation and will certainly take it into consideration. However, please be aware that our current commitments lie with other platforms at the moment.
This was a cool experiment to see. I have sleeve bags in the front with a pressure based management and I noticed its very inaccurate when I select a preset.
Keep in mind, it's not the pressure that is "inaccurate" - it's the variance in height. The pressure is always accurate.
I had sleeves on my 350z a few years ago and I always thought it was my management and that something was wrong. I also always complained how much pressure my fronts bags needed compared to my friends cars and now I know its cause I went sleeves all along. Thanks for this.
Air Lift could solve this with a firmware update to their control system pretty easily. Just have the ability to "overshoot" on the way up (Front, Back, All, etc..) by a certain PSI value while staying under the "max". Then "settling" back to preset pressure as after all, it is a pressure based system. I notice my bellow style in the rear does this as there isn't much weight back there. Then it settles on it's own. Where as the front really doesn't given the additional weight.
However, they may not want to as they'd ideally like to sell the height sensor package along with this type of bag. Sure would be a neat feature though.
It would use up a preset slot, but you could have one set to be higher than the other presets so you can set it to that one and then set it to another
I wish I knew this when I got my kit installed in my Pacifica. It was driving me crazy trying to figure out why presets weren’t working. Sleeves in front and bags in the rear. I have height sensors but I need to install them yet.
Awesome video 👍🏾
We are here to help! Once you install the height sensors this will solve the inaccuracies of having sleeve bags with pressure based systems.
When i first got bags the company Vera just released their setup, in like 2017ish. Truhart air struts look just like these in the video, the management i had was pressure based with the front two lines connected to eachother and same for the rears. Eventually got 4 corners to be on individual pressure but understood then that the amount of psi had nothing to do with height. Then upgraded again with their height sensors and they look like some universal tie rods, and during heavy rain one would stop responding. Eventually i had a different shop install airlift 3H management combined with the Truhart airstruts i already had, never had any issues at all since, I wish i understood everything sooner before the install. My first bag went bad a couple months ago after 7 long years of wear and tear, its quite the effort to replace the sleeve but time and patience pays off. Not sure if you guys have a video on replacing sleeve bags, i recall having a hard time finding a clear video on demonstrating the process, if you havent it would be a nice suggestion to help anyone who doesn't have an idea in the future
That's a good idea, we will make a Sleeve replacement video at some point!
awesome explanation, this explains a lot for those with sleeves
Glad it was helpful!
Fyi, softening up your damper adjustments can potentially get you to your preset height slightly better. When stiffening up the dampers, the management's "brain" will think it has already hit its preset pressure "too soon".
are there any differences between double bellow and triple bellow airbags? i am thinking of changing to triple bellows to get my car lower when getting over obstacles.. any advice?
What brand of Triple Bellow are you looking at?
I have double bellow airlift struts. I would always hear a thump going from aired out to ride height. I'd imagine its the air filling into the double bellows expanding both chambers after being collapsed on it self making that thumping noise. My rears are sleeves and they don't make any sound. Im wondering if that's normal for double bellows to do or something I should be concerned for. Thanks
I’ve heard that too. I think you’re right.
Yes it's completely normal to hear a double bellow make that thump noise when airing up!
It's normal. I have double bellow and it does that on my rear bags. It's the bag unfolding from itself. No damage happening. Completely normal and airlift is aware of it.
I had an off topic question. Hopefully u guys can answer. I have airlift and on the manual it states that max air pressure is 120psi, but I’ve seen people on up to 135 psi are they in the wrong or technically can u have it that high ?
I don't see an issue with exceeding 120 PSI. It's not a pressure you would want to have for normal use, but in a pinch it will work just fine.
To me I figured you should only use those sleeves in the rear setups for fwd cars. Just my opinion
Sleeve bags are typically used in situations where the available space is limited, preventing the use of a double bellow due to its size.
@bagriders This was my thinking as well..I have bellows all around my 5th gen camaro and I had to be very careful when buying wheels and tires for my car. Width, offset and tire size because they can rub against those meaty double bellows in the front.
@@blkeclipsel2400 Yup you are correct, that is one important factor to take into consideration.
That doesn't matter. Sleeve bags essentially ride softer than bellows. In fact, if you are RWD you'd actually want the softer bags or softer pressure settings (eveb on bellows) set up in the back for "grip". If you stiffen up the rears too much it will be too bouncy, and you'll hop/skip around corners like over-inflated tires.
My question is are Sleeves, softer, then bellows I have bellows and it's like riding on a brick at any pressure it's a static air system only on the rear it becomes bouncy at 20 psi and bodoms out the strut and at 30 psi it's stiff it's like riding on a 2×4 piece of wood it's a bc racing coilover with Double bellow conversion bags any info and help will be greatly appreciated
This is because of the conversion bags and the way they relate to the available travel of your dampers. Check this video out here: th-cam.com/video/f6MzXOzFsB4/w-d-xo.html
Also - what year make and model is your car? Your best bet will be to run an off-the-shelf suspension, where an engineer chose the perfect travel range to match the bag and the weight of the vehicle.
very interesting. i've always manually overshoot aired up with the up arrow on my 3p then hit my ride height even with airlift performance double bellows. old habits die hard I guess lol.
That's not a bad approach at all, it's pretty effective with rolling-sleeves. I've been in that habit myself.
They come stock on older Mercedes Benz’s. I had a 2003 Mercedes S class with em, smoothest ride I’ve even felt on any car I mean it was astronomical. I lowered the car on the OE bags about 20 years and 180K and they were still going strong for quite some time despite some neglect from the previous owner. The biggest issue I had besides them eventually developing leaks, was calibrating the height sensors to work when I hit the raise button in the car but man it was great when it did work
One thing to keep in mind, the OEs use a true tapered air spring with a carefully tuned lower piston. Companies like Air Lift, D2 Racing, Tru-hart (all the rest as well) use a straight rolling sleeve. They really aren't equivalent to one another. Production of a true tapered sleeve is very difficult, which is likely why so much of the aftermarket options focus on bellow-based bags,
Could you please do a video on fbss systems and how they work please I'd love to see side to side in real time and what button to push
Thanks for the interest in our channel! I can make the recommendation to our team for a future video.
My exact issue with my evo x . Rolling sleeve bags are used in the rear. Always have to shoot 100psi into the bag to actually lift the var beyond the point I want. Then manually dump the air to get the pressure and ride height I want. Oh well, sacrifices 😅
Dude I’m goin through the same thing on the same car 😂 I was about to buy a whole new management system because I thought something was wrong. Thanks for making me feel better.
Amazing video I am new to air suspension just installed a system on my polo all the way from south africa 🇿🇦 curious to know the difference between sleeve bags and bellow bags
Just to confirm are you referring to a single bellow or double bellow air bag?
@@bagriders double bellow
@@trivolandhaver8994 Bellows air bags generally are of a greater size compared to sleeve-style air springs, resulting in higher lifting capability and load-handling capacity. The design of most double bellows air springs permits inflation to the desired firmness and deflation in a similar manner. On the other hand, the sleeve design allows for a more compact overall diameter when constructing this type of air spring, distinguishing it from bellows air springs.
@@bagriders thank you
I love my rolling sleeve air bags on the front of 2001 Ford F350 crew cab dually. They will lift my front end about 9" Not bad for having a 7.3 diesel.
Can you guys do a video installing the 3h upgrade please!!
That would be a great video to share! Thank you for the recommendation.
@@bagriders thank you guys so much for everything you do I learned so much watching your videos, doing everything myself
If yall want to do a 3h video, I have the kit almost entirely put on. You could use my car
Land Rover used "ride height" for presets instead of pressure.
In fact all OEMs, Audi, Rover, Mercedes, BMW, Tesla, even ambulances, will all run a height sensor rather than rely on pressure.
Verry upset with 3p the purchase air compressor was hot straight out the box plugging in 2 days later bag popped turning a curb at 60 mph your kit spent 1000 extra on everything said it was designing for my 5th generation bought 2 new compressor with your hard headed company and my part number for my vehicle overnighted 2 bags for the front and they both don’t fit, very terrible experience with bag rides and airlift performance I called at 7 am you guys send the incorrect part to buy and I knew because I just ordered that one with $150 1 day shipping look up the part number of the bag for the kit dosnt even pop up 🤣what a joke call the number they told me and sent me a bag for a Mercedes 🤣i dialed 7 for costumer service said your in a team meeting yall got me so messed up all the way how simple is it to display actual pictures for the part numbers and put the vehicle
Please make super lows for the Lexus RCF!! 👏
Thank you for expressing your interest in Super Low Air Suspension. We value your recommendation and will certainly take it into consideration. However, please be aware that our current commitments lie with other platforms at the moment.