The first presentation from the European President talking about growth and how it is needed... I'm really wondering where this Beyond Growth conference is going to go from here.
I appears that the European President interpreted 'Beyond growth' as "Growth plus". This demonstrates the challenge of changing preconceptions resulting from decades of pro-growth propaganda.
Jason Hickel said that if we use things twice as long, we will need half as much. Sadly, with the constant influx of new stuff, it doesn't work that way. We use things much less, before we throw them away, it will first be when the influx drastically degrows that we will start to use things till they are worn out.
Jason Hickel is a weird kind of guy - he'll make some good arguments/statements... but then always seems to end up making suggestions that almost completely ignore bio-physical, energy, and material limits. He doesn't seem to be aware that 1.5ºC is no longer a possible goal... and that Paris Agreement targets won't prevent 2.0ºC, at this point.
In neoliberal financialized economies, the working poor already live in degrowth mode, austerity is a political instrument to impose manufactured scarcity. How can we have a just transition within the framework of the current system? We can't.
Remarkable all of the virtue signaling around staying under 1.5 degrees. It cannot be done. It's impossible. We are already at 1.3 degrees above pre-industrial, and we have at least another 0.5 degrees already bacon with the aerosol effect. Finally, given that we are above 420 ppm CO2, historic geologic and cryosphere records show that we have already baked in a minimum of two to two-and-a-half degrees Celsius as of today. And that does not include the fact that we will continue to burn fossil fuels for at least the next 20 years. There is no carbon budget left. There is no sustainability with this level of consumption and production. The limits to growth are in deep effect on we are already insignificant planetary overshoot. How is this conference not saying these things?
The transition will never be smooth and without pain. The speakers, with all respect, had made it look like a golden opportunity and everyone will win. When, in fact, everyone one will lose, and everyone will suffer. We have to be realistic and state the facts. The challenge isn’t just the climate, it’s the scarcity of fossil fuel, despite what is being taunted as the abundance of shale oil and gas! At the same time, simple decisions can make a great difference, but not being addressed, and that is: advertising and promotion. Stop advertising and promotions, or at least rewrite the rules for this industry and the impact will be huge. The immediate impact will be to minimize the insatiable and exorbitant demands for goods and services that isn’t an immediate necessity!
38:23 I couldn’t find Ursula’s quote from the Limits to Growth report (1972). The closest I found was a reference to a “stabilized world model” (Fig. 46) which combined tech policies with growth-constraining policies “to produce an equilibrium state sustainable far Into the future.” And on the next page the authors go on to state; “Now let us go back at least in the general direction of the real world and relax *our most unrealistic assumptions-that we can suddenly and absolutely stabilize population and capital.* (p.166, emphasis added) So I’m not sure what she’s talking about tbh. During the pandemic, she wanted the EU to become “the pharmacy of the world”. Now it seems she wants us to become “the ‘green growth’ economy of the world.” TLDR: More business as usual; more BS. (at least from Ursula. The last three speakers were brilliant and down to Earth)
Is hyper (!) capitalism a tipping point in its own right? How can we empower and enforce, reward, real behavioural changes in oil companies? How to regulate overseas (by def. international) shipping? How to terraform earth? How to inspire farmers to do their part?
Scotland does not have a wellbeing economy. That is stretching things to a huge degree. The Scottish Government's official target is for GDP growth "significantly above the last decade"
Listening to these overly clinical and cold, and lofty, lectures, I thank God for the people who follow His ways. I thank God for those who are fruitful and multiply, for stay at home moms and for men who are private investors and speculators. Damn, how over-bloated bureaucracies concern me. -- For the Usurper: I will invest in the NJH process, Generation 4 Reactors, and Petroleum and FCC Technologies on my own because I can, I will never choose Solar or Wind because I find them less effective and more intrusive to the environment. Like Hell I'll let a non-elected comrade take my choices away from me.
Jason Hickel is a weird kind of guy - he'll make some good arguments/statements... but then always seems to end up making suggestions that almost completely ignore bio-physical, energy, and material limits. He doesn't seem to be aware that 1.5ºC is no longer a possible goal... and that Paris Agreement targets won't prevent 2.0ºC, at this point.
The first presentation from the European President talking about growth and how it is needed... I'm really wondering where this Beyond Growth conference is going to go from here.
Lots about growth from Roberta!
wow did they really laugh at her when she intoned growth? lol
Beyond Dope
I appears that the European President interpreted 'Beyond growth' as "Growth plus". This demonstrates the challenge of changing preconceptions resulting from decades of pro-growth propaganda.
100% !!
Why is VDL speaking about a "growth" model. What's needed is prosperity... without growth.
Adelaide is so impressive!
Jason Hickel said that if we use things twice as long, we will need half as much. Sadly, with the constant influx of new stuff, it doesn't work that way. We use things much less, before we throw them away, it will first be when the influx drastically degrows that we will start to use things till they are worn out.
Jason Hickel is a weird kind of guy - he'll make some good arguments/statements... but then always seems to end up making suggestions that almost completely ignore bio-physical, energy, and material limits.
He doesn't seem to be aware that 1.5ºC is no longer a possible goal... and that Paris Agreement targets won't prevent 2.0ºC, at this point.
In neoliberal financialized economies, the working poor already live in degrowth mode, austerity is a political instrument to impose manufactured scarcity.
How can we have a just transition within the framework of the current system? We can't.
Remarkable all of the virtue signaling around staying under 1.5 degrees. It cannot be done. It's impossible.
We are already at 1.3 degrees above pre-industrial, and we have at least another 0.5 degrees already bacon with the aerosol effect.
Finally, given that we are above 420 ppm CO2, historic geologic and cryosphere records show that we have already baked in a minimum of two to two-and-a-half degrees Celsius as of today. And that does not include the fact that we will continue to burn fossil fuels for at least the next 20 years.
There is no carbon budget left. There is no sustainability with this level of consumption and production. The limits to growth are in deep effect on we are already insignificant planetary overshoot.
How is this conference not saying these things?
22:19 Sound kicks in.
The different speeches (as from minute 31) seem more a political campaigns than actual messages or factual info
Yet again a Eurocentric conversation when the Conference is about Beyond Growth...Does this not require a more holistic perspective?
Roberta is way too anthropocentric and focused on "growth". The conference is supposed to be focused "Beyond" growth
Oh God - what a lier? She is the best example of redecule Europe.
The transition will never be smooth and without pain. The speakers, with all respect, had made it look like a golden opportunity and everyone will win. When, in fact, everyone one will lose, and everyone will suffer. We have to be realistic and state the facts. The challenge isn’t just the climate, it’s the scarcity of fossil fuel, despite what is being taunted as the abundance of shale oil and gas!
At the same time, simple decisions can make a great difference, but not being addressed, and that is: advertising and promotion. Stop advertising and promotions, or at least rewrite the rules for this industry and the impact will be huge.
The immediate impact will be to minimize the insatiable and exorbitant demands for goods and services that isn’t an immediate necessity!
38:23 I couldn’t find Ursula’s quote from the Limits to Growth report (1972). The closest I found was a reference to a “stabilized world model” (Fig. 46) which combined tech policies with growth-constraining policies “to produce an equilibrium state sustainable far Into the future.” And on the next page the authors go on to state; “Now let us go back at least in the general direction of the real world and relax *our most unrealistic assumptions-that we can suddenly and absolutely stabilize population and capital.* (p.166, emphasis added) So I’m not sure what she’s talking about tbh. During the pandemic, she wanted the EU to become “the pharmacy of the world”. Now it seems she wants us to become “the ‘green growth’ economy of the world.” TLDR: More business as usual; more BS. (at least from Ursula. The last three speakers were brilliant and down to Earth)
Completely tone deaf speech by the EU President. “Sustainable growth”?
Exactly can't have growth with a rationed-based circular economic model.
So for the UE right now, transition means energy transition, nothing else...
Is hyper (!) capitalism a tipping point in its own right? How can we empower and enforce, reward, real behavioural changes in oil companies? How to regulate overseas (by def. international) shipping? How to terraform earth? How to inspire farmers to do their part?
no sound?
Scotland does not have a wellbeing economy. That is stretching things to a huge degree. The Scottish Government's official target is for GDP growth "significantly above the last decade"
Scotland does have a "Well-being" economy.
It's a Circular Economy based on Marxist de-growth.
Luckily Greens with lose at 22 seats at the next EP election
Listening to these overly clinical and cold, and lofty, lectures, I thank God for the people who follow His ways. I thank God for those who are fruitful and multiply, for stay at home moms and for men who are private investors and speculators. Damn, how over-bloated bureaucracies concern me. -- For the Usurper: I will invest in the NJH process, Generation 4 Reactors, and Petroleum and FCC Technologies on my own because I can, I will never choose Solar or Wind because I find them less effective and more intrusive to the environment. Like Hell I'll let a non-elected comrade take my choices away from me.
Jason Hickel is a weird kind of guy - he'll make some good arguments/statements... but then always seems to end up making suggestions that almost completely ignore bio-physical, energy, and material limits.
He doesn't seem to be aware that 1.5ºC is no longer a possible goal... and that Paris Agreement targets won't prevent 2.0ºC, at this point.
gay