ST5 Pinion owner here... Couple of minor nits with the bike: 1. The on-bike console user interface hasn't changed in years. It looks dated. It's particularly bad for us old farts that need reading glasses to see small type. Simple things like adjusting the color of the "what gear an I in indicator in addition to showing the gear number" would help. 2. The "charge my stuff" port (inside the U shaped LED thing) is USB-A. You'd think they would support USB-C. 3. The cover plate for the charge port keeps breaking off (same cover as my ST2 had). The ST7 has a much better system but the didn't use that here. 4. When new, the Pinion gears made noise sometimes (it was random). After a while, this noise stopped. 5. Peak Design makes an awesome phone holder. Their motorcycle stem mount fits perfectly where the Stromer phone mount goes (on the stem -- I drilled a small hole in the plastic cover and added some washers under it to improve the looks). Wish there was a better way to wire up Peak Design's new "charge my phone" version. 6. With their handlebar design, most "mount on my handlebars" stuff won't fit. The handlebars are thicker than most and are not round. 7. You can't pair the Stromer Helmet (a.k.a. Unit 1 Helmet) and the Stromer phone app at the same time. You have to pick one. App is the clear winner here 🙂 My major complaint is that Sport Mode is essentially useless. I live at the top of a hill and going up, the motor always overheats and kicks me out of Sport Mode when I try it. They recently changed their software to explain why. Nobody said anything about this limitation pre-sale so it felt a bit of a bait-and-switch. I've also had a handful of "system errors, reset the bike and if this repeats, contact your dealer". Finally, it would be awesome if they included a dash cam. Something like a builtin version of cycliq.com
Great bike, pretty cool, thanks for the review! but wow $12k, I can pick up a Yamaha ebike, Yahama motorcycle, and decent used yamaha powered car (Celica) for $12k.
A few thoughts 1: this bike makes shares a lot of components with the Letric One, so I am really impressed with how they where able to do that at less than the 5th of the price if this. 2: this is a terrible commuter for one simple reason, it is very nice. Everything about this bike is expensive, high quality, and valuable. Locking the frame up won’t stop thieves from stealing the wheels, breaks, and drivetrain. Unless you live in Dubai, this thing we be gone in >2 weeks.
Actually, it's quite the opposite. Stromers have security features that make them basically unstealable, and thieves know it. Motor lock, integrated GPS tracking, motion sensing, and a constant cell-based connection to the Omni app operate in conjunction to make it basically impossible to steal a Stromer. You should still lock it up, of course, and put some Hexlox here and there. But Stromers really can't be stolen. And though they share some of the same components with other bikes, Stromers are in a totally different class when it comes to build quality, feature set, and performance. They only really compare with the Riese & Mullers, but they still beat them in most respects.
Seems like a really nice bike the only complain I have is for 12,000 dollars they better come up with a better cargo rack than what they have that's a pretty sorry cargo rack my 600 dollar Vivi had a better rack than that
Oooh, good point! That is on my one grievance about the Stromers; the integrated rack doesn't have a pannier bar, and you can't switch out the rack. You can, however, get a MIK carrier plate as a workaround. They should also add a cleat for bungied panniers to hang onto. But these are very, very first-world problems.
@@BoulderHikerBoy And how about the rain and especially salty roads during the winter? I haven't found any mention or hint that this 12,000 dollar gizmo has any IP rating whatsoever! Meanwhile, a bike for 1/6 that price literally can have its battery completely submerged in water and it still runs afterwards! The Velotric Discover 2 or Summit 1 holds infinitely more value than this one for their price points because of that!
@@BoulderHikerBoy Got an anti-angle grinder lock, 2 motion alarms, a bike cover and couple of trackers which still equates to being so much cheaper. If Stromer gets stolen and loaded into a van, it can still be taken apart with battery disconnected, parts butchered, etc.
@@chaxologist2024Thieves that capable don't mess with Stromers. Yes, one could Faraday cage the thing and strip it for parts. But there isn't a black market for the parts because Stromer owners get repairs through the dealer.
The Stromer ST3 was the 2nd e-bike that I test rode after test riding a Gazelle. These were the first and only e-bikes I have tested so far. I was very impressed because the Stromer handled and rode better than the Gazelle. Just barely pedaling the Stromer makes it seem like it's releasing a greater surge in power, but it doesn't jolt or suddenly jump as it increases in speed. It reminded me of the Bentley Flying Spur when I stepped on the gas pedal. It was an amazing experience. The speed increases but the car doesn't jolt forward like most cars. The Stromer ST3 felt the same. You're suddenly surprised by how fast you're going within seconds because you don't feel that the car or bike is increasing in speed. I was about to purchase the only ST5 the shop had in red. I was still researching and hoping to find something similar to the ST5 but cheaper. The ST5 seemed to satisfy my needs because I plan to sometimes travel over 35 miles to the beach but also travel further around there, which would easily be over 70 miles when you include the return trip. I'd also be riding 22 miles 3 times a week to the gym and back. I sold one car and getting rid of another one. I'm hoping to make my e-bike my primary transportation but will easily pay over $16,000 if I include the upgrades like seat suspension, suspension fork, extra battery, helmet and bags. It doesn't get really cold in this part of Southern California but when it does, you'll need something like goretex clothing when riding in that kind of weather. I'm taking my time because that will be a major change in my life and I have to be fully satisfied with my decision to purchase an ST5. I haven't found any other bike equivalent to this one. The belt drive and pinion system are the major reasons why I want an e-bike with these features. I stopped riding to the gym because the street to get to my neighborhood is very steep. It's too tiring to ride a standard bike up that street after you've worked out and swam for several hours.
Now that you’ve reviewed this can you review the ST2 Pinion❓ It’s about half the cost but more importantly has the same or similar 6 Speed Pinion setup as The One. That would put a bow tie on a threesome comparison but really the ST2 and One comparison. Is there ghost pedaling or does the 6 Speed cover the same speed vs peddling rate but in courser steps? Does the 6 speed work better on 27” or 20 inch tires? With less moving parts to the One gates setup is it a better casual bike than the ST2 requiring the gates tuning app touch up periodically versus tensioner maintenance? The ST2 will offer similar if not all of the same features leaving the One in the dust except literally while moving. I do know you generalize comparisons to the averages which is the right thing to do and this isn’t a request for a head to head comparison. I feel the ST5 is in a class by itself also but the ST2 and One are in a class by themselves which I’m inquisitive on based on the price. I think being C1.6 Gates setup pairs them more than price and features. So is the anti theft security worth three One’s if two were stolen? Does the wheel geometry make street riding noticeably different? Is one more transportable than the other? Does the ST2 adjustable stem help take pressure off your palms to be more equivalent to One’s riding position? Are 20” wheels more nimble to intricate city maneuvers than the 27” but the 27” better for a smoother ride? Never thought tires and seat post could make up for in part for a solid fork/frame but I’m liking the solid frame idea the more I look around. So many bike rear suspension’s look like long term maintenance fit for the extreme ride cases. John you did an awesome job reviewing the ST5 Pinion. Looking forward to your future even handed and honest assessments in the future. Hopefully the ST2 Pinion and One are coming soon. Keep up the great work. 👍🏼40:04
We'd love to! I can't say that we have any plans for it in the works now, but hopefully we can check it out in the future. Lots of good questions there to answer. Thanks for all your thoughts! FYI we're in the middle of our hands-on, full-length Lectric ONE review now, so stay tuned.
@@ElectricBikeReport Looking forward to that. I think I like the auto shift the most on the pinion when coming to a stop. However I’m thinking if 3 is starting gear set (by default🤷🏻) for the ride event then that only leaves 3 other gears from 8 to 28mph. Pinions smart sift allows for customization of when it shifts but if 1 & 2 can be skipped on flat surface would’ve a C1.9 help erase ghost peddling in higher assists if present. I’ll wait to hear your assessment because I’m trying to equate it to the recommendation you’ve had to go to particular ratio and additional gear ⚙️ to help on a traditional chain setup with ghost peddling. It would stand to reason for hell hole if the assist and cadence shift could be set to have a linear smoother increase of power those gears could help in those situations. Thanks John.
Just purchased an Aventon Adventure 2 and these reviews really helped me with figuring out which bike was right for me. The real world data is an amazing resource that I used for my search. Thanks a lot! PS: spending $12k on a bike for marginally better performance than a $1500-2000 bike is ridiculous😂😂😂
Very little of the difference has to do with performance. You are correct that the cheaper bike does 90% of what the expensive bike does. Same as it's been for about 150 years. Not fair to assume that 10% is wasted or irrelevant. I've had some expensive bikes that I bought used and there is a real difference in how they feel and ride. Not to mention intrinsic things like beautiful build quality ala welds and such.
The deal killer for me is there's no full suspension option from Stromer whereas I can get a full suspension from Riese & Müller Homage 4 GT Rohloff HS.
Full suspension would be nice, but for what it's worth, the suspension seatpost version felt great, and we expect that would only get better with the suspension fork option.
@@ElectricBikeReport .. I have a full suspension plus I also have that shock suspension on my seat and I'm sorry I disagree. Mine I feel like I'm on a floating carpet and now because my rear suspension is so smooth I'm looking into replacing my front fork.
@@ElectricBikeReport Only had it a year or so. Had 2 or 3 at a time trying to ride everything I was curious about. 1,000+ for sure. Felt like a tank. My current German bike (Haibike) is 9 years old, 6,000 miles and still on the original battery at 90% capacity.
Which phone holder do you use? We are signed up for a "Boat Bike Tour" in Belgium and the Netherlands, and they are set up for using the Ride with GPS phone app to navigate their pre-mapped routes. A good secure phone holder would be helpful.
I have owned stromer bicycles since 2013, so I speak from personal experience. For what you’re getting they are an excellent value. These are sturdy, fast, reliable, and durable bicycles. In the short run they seem to be a foolish extravagance; in the long run, however, you come to understand why they are priced the way they are. More, the price of this unit may seem extreme until you explore the high-end bicycle market. Some road bike frames alone are upwards of 12k. It is not out of the ordinary to pay 20k or more for some custom road bikes. The bottom line is that quality comes with a cost.
Couldn't agree more. And I'd argue that the security features of the Stromer aren't really a luxury in many places. You either have them (or the Bosch equivalent) or else you have to babysit your bike to prevent it from being stolen.
You're not cheap. Until this year I never paid more than that as well. The reason I did now was to buy a roadbike/gravelbike to get in shape and relax in my free time with some comfort and style. Not just to get from A to B with 3 mile distances, but also be able to cycle for 30+ miles. I'm currently looking into swapping my 1 hour commute with public transportation (traffic is impossible) to a 42 km/26 mile speed pedelec ride with a Stromer. Leasing it through work in Europe actually is extremely attractive with the compensation paid by some employers (40 eurocents/km). You're not actually paying anything. Would I buy this out of my savings? No effing way.
I understand. But the country where I live, we get paid to use a bicycle (electric of regular) to go to work. Our company offers a very attractive lease-contract, which makes the types of bicycles very affortable and even earn money for riding it daily. That's not the case with motorcycles and cars.
Just the thing I need for running around the compound in Kennebunkport :) It's an e-motorcycle though, has no place on bike paths or walking infrastructure. Too heavy, powerful and fast. Great to ride on the road surely.
I have an ST7 and must say the Pinion system and Gates Belt drive are a very expensive way to communicate with the torque sensor to drive the motor. I mean, 90pct of the power will come from the battery and motor, only 10% from the front pedals.
why not a test uphill throttle mode only, your test uphill depend on the rider strength and it sounded like he was out of breath peddling hard. for over 12k it heats up in sport mode, not worth it, you can buy a Aventon or wired Ebike for 2k much faster throttle only and no overheat. this bike is overpriced by 10X. If the bike belt breaks your stuck where you are as a chain motor drive with throttle you can ride without peddling if chain breaks.
I was also concerned about this at the outset, but I got the comfort package and just adjusted the handlebar position and seat position so that I'm reasonably upright. And with those adjustments, it's just right. The question of whether it's worth the money depends on whether you need the features. If you live in a place where ebikes are frequently stolen, any Stromer is worth every penny.
Not necessarily. The features of the Stromer make it a car killer, providing the range, speed, reliability, and security that one would want when going without a car. Other bikes with a similar feature set cost as much. And it really is a sensible investment when one thinks of the ebike as a car replacement. Most people don't even know Stromer or what they cost so buying one isn't a very effective way to show off.
@@DM-fp8uw Look at Riese & Mullers with motor lock, High Speed motor, Bike Trax, ABS, belt drive, and the Rohloff IGH. Roughly the same price but you still don't get the range of a Stromer, and Rohloff isn't as good as Pinion. Plus, all Stromers have the same security features and they are sufficiently distinctive in appearance that thieves just don't bother with Stromers. They might mess around with a Riese and Muller for a bit before discovering that it's one that's equipped with the latest security. But all Stromers have had that security suite since Day 1, so thieves don't mess with them.
Mine is awesome, and I think 12K is a bargain... no gas, no insurance, no registration, no maintenance, no noise, no pollution. Awesome mode of transport. A perfect compliment to my seldom used Chevy Bolt EV.
That moment of riding swiftly and silently was pure bliss. I appreciate quality and love many of the features, and this bike highlights that control systems dictate motor responsiveness, rather than where the motor is located. That being said, is it really worth $10,000 more than a bike that climbs better, stops better, has longer range, accelerates quicker, and is faster? I guess time will tell, though I have 9,000 reliable miles on it so far.
Cons: price, value, non-adjustable stem, pinion auto gears has only 6, display should be handlebar mounted for safety and braking is average. This bike is trash. EBR call it as you see it, its not always a positive takeaway.
Actually, this bike is amazing. Yes, it's expensive, but the feature set is stunning. Don't let the number of gears fool you; it's not the number of steps but the total range that matters. For Pinion that range is 600%; and, frankly, the motor on this thing is so powerful that you don't need the lower gears except when you're just getting started from a stop. Once you're going, the last two gears are all you need. Stromer used to use a Pinion with more steps but the feedback was that the motor was so powerful that the lower gears were unnecessary. Anyway, I've got an ST2, and it's f'in amazing. No problem seeing the console, and it's actually great that it's integrated into the frame because it can't be stolen.
@@BoulderHikerBoy Your right about the gears on an ebike but, don't see the merit of an expensive pinion auto transmission. If its belt driven might as well be a mid drive. Its not a bad product just priced poorly which ruins its appeal for me a regular person. Same reason I don't care for exotic/luxury cars, their nice but, not attainable and limited functional improvement. I appreciate your post.
@@jasondelarosa5457 I actually agree about the Pinion thing. My ST2 has the Sturmey Archer IGH, not the Pinion set up, and I actually really like it. The rear hub motor on the Stromer is just as smooth as a typical mid-drive motor but with a lot more pep. But it's the security features on the Stromer that really set it apart. That and the big-ass battery. I'd say the question of whether it's priced poorly depends mostly on whether you actually need the features. For me, the invincible security and gnarly battery were the things that made it worth the money. I don't go that far usually, but I often deal with insane winds and hills, when it's really nice to have watt-hours to spare.
Interesting. But not for 12K. The tech will be dated in a few years and the bike looks huge and it's way too heavy - more like a motorbike than a bike.
Actually, Stromers really can't be stolen. They have integrated GPS tracking, a constant connection to your mobile phone (to alert you if someone is messing with your bike), automatic motor locking (so the bike won't roll unless unlocked by keypad), and a motion sensing alarm. The bike will brick itself if you lock it from your phone or online account, so it can't be operated (or sold) without your authorization. The newest Bosch systems have some of these same features, but you then have to pay an annual subscription for the tracking service (that comes free for life with the Stromer). Because all of these features are standard on all Stromers (not an optional add-on), thieves know that it's not worth their time to mess with a Stromer. You should still lock your Stromer up, but you're much less dependent on the strength of that lock... which is good because any lock can be cut.
It seems most folks (who've commented, anyway) are comparing this bike to much cheaper alternatives, failing to recognize the value of the security features on all Stromers, the massive jump in range, and the reliability of IGH systems. Only Riese & Muller compares to the Stromers and, at a similar price point, still unfavorably, for a variety of reasons. Stromer is simply the best and it costs like it (because the Swiss steal all of the best engineers from Germany by paying them more). That's why Stromers have had tech since the ST2 that was just introduced by Bosch to the European market in 2023. No doubt, $12K hurts but you actually are getting what you pay for. The real question is whether you need all of what you're paying for. If you live in an area with a lot of bike theft, any Stromer is an unmistakable value. Thieves who know what they're doing don't mess with Stromers; thieves who don't know what they're doing mess with Stromers and get caught. If you're less concerned about theft, then Specialized (which is also Swiss-engineered) makes high-quality IGH, belt drive bikes for less money (but with less range). Use the money you saved to buy bike insurance and a second battery. Riese & Mullers are also excellent and can be configured to cost less... but when you add all of the features that come standard on a Stromer, they also cost an arm and a leg (and have a $60 annual fee for GPS tracking). Of course, you can buy a crappy car for $12K... and then spend $2K every year for insurance and another $1,500 or more in gas and then maybe another $1,500 per year in maintenance and repairs. In that light, a Stromer starts to make a lot of sense, if not as your sole vehicle then, at least, as a substitute for a second car. Actually, my Stromer is my primary vehicle. I still have a Subaru Outback for road trips, which I do often enough to justify ownership rather than car rental. But my Stromer is one of the best investments I've ever made. Virtually no maintenance, no concern about theft, and all of the torque and battery I need for the crazy winds and hills we have around here.
In London it wouldn't stay locked up on the street for more than 30 minutes, and they would never get caught :) Good on you for replacing most of your car with it. I've been car free for years. But you know to be realistic, for most all the people who will procure this one, it will be only for recreation on sunny days.
@@PRH123 I feel like I'm repeating myself: this bike cannot be stolen. It is continuously connected with your smartphone so any movement when the bike is locked will notify the owner immediately. If the bike is nonetheless stolen, the owner can activate theft mode from their phone. This disables the user interface aboard the bike and engages the regenerative brake unless and until the actual owner turns off theft mode. The bike's current location ascertained by constant GPS tracking is reported to both the user and Stromer. So, while it's technically possible to lift the bike and haul it away, it's unusable and unsaleable and very likely to be recovered unless the thief knows to keep it in faraday cage until the transmitter aboard the bike exhausts the bike's massive battery. I wouldn't presume to know who the actual owners of Stromers may be. Perhaps some are just recreational riders (with bank), but these bikes are actually most valuable to folks who are depending on them as a replacement for a car. The range, power, security, drivetrain, and price point all aim in that direction. That is, a recreational rider likely doesn't need much of what these bikes provide and, so, probably wouldn't want to pay for those features. But, of course, there are folks who buy Hummers to poke around their suburb, so I wouldn't deny that some folks buy a Stromer just to show off. But we shouldn't hold that against the bikes themselves.
@@BoulderforAll-wj6zu not holding it against the bike as you say, just pointing out the fact, that most of the owners are just going to do some fair weather recreational riding, it has the potential to be a great car replacement, but unfortunately very few people in this range with this bike will do it. Awesome if they do, like yourself, but won’t be many. I’ve seen the e crowd in DE and CH, mostly older retired well-heeled people riding down to a restaurant on a nice evening or over to the supermarket, around the local area. Bike thieves in London are pretty clever, they know how to deal with the gps trackers already. If you disconnect the controller from the motor there’s nothing to stop the motor from working. Even if they got frustrated and dropped it in the Thames, you still wouldn’t get it back.
@@PRH123 Competent thieves don't mess with Stromers because the GPS tracking is integrated, not an add-on that can be removed. Disconnecting the motor from the controller also disconnects it from power, leaving it locked in regenerative braking mode. If you need a generator and are willing to peddle pretty hard, I suppose the motor still has some value. So it's really just a matter of catching the incompetent thieves before they dump it in the Thames... which should be doable because you get an alert on your phone the moment someone attempts to move the locked bike. I guess I'm just not prepared to speculate about who buys and rides expensive e-bikes. Here, anyway, the old farts are mostly driving; it's the commuters and parents (of young children) who invest in expensive ebikes. I'd guess a lot depends on whether a community has the sort of safe bike infrastructure and density that makes for high rates of bike commuting.
ST5 Pinion owner here...
Couple of minor nits with the bike:
1. The on-bike console user interface hasn't changed in years. It looks dated. It's particularly bad for us old farts that need reading glasses to see small type. Simple things like adjusting the color of the "what gear an I in indicator in addition to showing the gear number" would help.
2. The "charge my stuff" port (inside the U shaped LED thing) is USB-A. You'd think they would support USB-C.
3. The cover plate for the charge port keeps breaking off (same cover as my ST2 had). The ST7 has a much better system but the didn't use that here.
4. When new, the Pinion gears made noise sometimes (it was random). After a while, this noise stopped.
5. Peak Design makes an awesome phone holder. Their motorcycle stem mount fits perfectly where the Stromer phone mount goes (on the stem -- I drilled a small hole in the plastic cover and added some washers under it to improve the looks). Wish there was a better way to wire up Peak Design's new "charge my phone" version.
6. With their handlebar design, most "mount on my handlebars" stuff won't fit. The handlebars are thicker than most and are not round.
7. You can't pair the Stromer Helmet (a.k.a. Unit 1 Helmet) and the Stromer phone app at the same time. You have to pick one. App is the clear winner here 🙂
My major complaint is that Sport Mode is essentially useless. I live at the top of a hill and going up, the motor always overheats and kicks me out of Sport Mode when I try it. They recently changed their software to explain why. Nobody said anything about this limitation pre-sale so it felt a bit of a bait-and-switch.
I've also had a handful of "system errors, reset the bike and if this repeats, contact your dealer".
Finally, it would be awesome if they included a dash cam. Something like a builtin version of cycliq.com
Great bike, pretty cool, thanks for the review! but wow $12k, I can pick up a Yamaha ebike, Yahama motorcycle, and decent used yamaha powered car (Celica) for $12k.
That's an excellent point!
A few thoughts
1: this bike makes shares a lot of components with the Letric One, so I am really impressed with how they where able to do that at less than the 5th of the price if this.
2: this is a terrible commuter for one simple reason, it is very nice. Everything about this bike is expensive, high quality, and valuable. Locking the frame up won’t stop thieves from stealing the wheels, breaks, and drivetrain. Unless you live in Dubai, this thing we be gone in >2 weeks.
Actually, it's quite the opposite. Stromers have security features that make them basically unstealable, and thieves know it. Motor lock, integrated GPS tracking, motion sensing, and a constant cell-based connection to the Omni app operate in conjunction to make it basically impossible to steal a Stromer. You should still lock it up, of course, and put some Hexlox here and there. But Stromers really can't be stolen. And though they share some of the same components with other bikes, Stromers are in a totally different class when it comes to build quality, feature set, and performance. They only really compare with the Riese & Mullers, but they still beat them in most respects.
Agreed on #1! The ONE has a 6-speed Pinion instead of a 9-speed (we're testing the ONE right now), but so far it's doing well.
@@BoulderHikerBoy They do have those but you're dreaming if you think every bike stealing idiot is sharing knowledge.
Over half the motorcycles Honda produces don't even cost that much.
This is really more comparable to a high end Ducati.
It's a little wild to think about all the different ways a person could spend $12k.
@@Roxlimn No, it's Not.
@@Roxlimn No. You need to price Ducati's.
What’s your point?
Seems like a really nice bike the only complain I have is for 12,000 dollars they better come up with a better cargo rack than what they have that's a pretty sorry cargo rack my 600 dollar Vivi had a better rack than that
Oooh, good point! That is on my one grievance about the Stromers; the integrated rack doesn't have a pannier bar, and you can't switch out the rack. You can, however, get a MIK carrier plate as a workaround. They should also add a cleat for bungied panniers to hang onto. But these are very, very first-world problems.
@@BoulderHikerBoy And how about the rain and especially salty roads during the winter?
I haven't found any mention or hint that this 12,000 dollar gizmo has any IP rating whatsoever!
Meanwhile, a bike for 1/6 that price literally can have its battery completely submerged in water and it still runs afterwards!
The Velotric Discover 2 or Summit 1 holds infinitely more value than this one for their price points because of that!
@@chaxologist2024 It’s been fine in rain and snow but I have never needed to submerge it. Velotric is fine... until it gets stolen.
@@BoulderHikerBoy Got an anti-angle grinder lock, 2 motion alarms, a bike cover and couple of trackers which still equates to being so much cheaper.
If Stromer gets stolen and loaded into a van, it can still be taken apart with battery disconnected, parts butchered, etc.
@@chaxologist2024Thieves that capable don't mess with Stromers. Yes, one could Faraday cage the thing and strip it for parts. But there isn't a black market for the parts because Stromer owners get repairs through the dealer.
The Stromer ST3 was the 2nd e-bike that I test rode after test riding a Gazelle. These were the first and only e-bikes I have tested so far. I was very impressed because the Stromer handled and rode better than the Gazelle. Just barely pedaling the Stromer makes it seem like it's releasing a greater surge in power, but it doesn't jolt or suddenly jump as it increases in speed. It reminded me of the Bentley Flying Spur when I stepped on the gas pedal. It was an amazing experience. The speed increases but the car doesn't jolt forward like most cars. The Stromer ST3 felt the same. You're suddenly surprised by how fast you're going within seconds because you don't feel that the car or bike is increasing in speed. I was about to purchase the only ST5 the shop had in red. I was still researching and hoping to find something similar to the ST5 but cheaper. The ST5 seemed to satisfy my needs because I plan to sometimes travel over 35 miles to the beach but also travel further around there, which would easily be over 70 miles when you include the return trip. I'd also be riding 22 miles 3 times a week to the gym and back. I sold one car and getting rid of another one. I'm hoping to make my e-bike my primary transportation but will easily pay over $16,000 if I include the upgrades like seat suspension, suspension fork, extra battery, helmet and bags. It doesn't get really cold in this part of Southern California but when it does, you'll need something like goretex clothing when riding in that kind of weather. I'm taking my time because that will be a major change in my life and I have to be fully satisfied with my decision to purchase an ST5. I haven't found any other bike equivalent to this one. The belt drive and pinion system are the major reasons why I want an e-bike with these features. I stopped riding to the gym because the street to get to my neighborhood is very steep. It's too tiring to ride a standard bike up that street after you've worked out and swam for several hours.
Now that you’ve reviewed this can you review the ST2 Pinion❓ It’s about half the cost but more importantly has the same or similar 6 Speed Pinion setup as The One. That would put a bow tie on a threesome comparison but really the ST2 and One comparison. Is there ghost pedaling or does the 6 Speed cover the same speed vs peddling rate but in courser steps? Does the 6 speed work better on 27” or 20 inch tires? With less moving parts to the One gates setup is it a better casual bike than the ST2 requiring the gates tuning app touch up periodically versus tensioner maintenance? The ST2 will offer similar if not all of the same features leaving the One in the dust except literally while moving. I do know you generalize comparisons to the averages which is the right thing to do and this isn’t a request for a head to head comparison. I feel the ST5 is in a class by itself also but the ST2 and One are in a class by themselves which I’m inquisitive on based on the price. I think being C1.6 Gates setup pairs them more than price and features. So is the anti theft security worth three One’s if two were stolen? Does the wheel geometry make street riding noticeably different? Is one more transportable than the other? Does the ST2 adjustable stem help take pressure off your palms to be more equivalent to One’s riding position? Are 20” wheels more nimble to intricate city maneuvers than the 27” but the 27” better for a smoother ride? Never thought tires and seat post could make up for in part for a solid fork/frame but I’m liking the solid frame idea the more I look around. So many bike rear suspension’s look like long term maintenance fit for the extreme ride cases. John you did an awesome job reviewing the ST5 Pinion. Looking forward to your future even handed and honest assessments in the future. Hopefully the ST2 Pinion and One are coming soon. Keep up the great work. 👍🏼40:04
We'd love to! I can't say that we have any plans for it in the works now, but hopefully we can check it out in the future. Lots of good questions there to answer. Thanks for all your thoughts! FYI we're in the middle of our hands-on, full-length Lectric ONE review now, so stay tuned.
@@ElectricBikeReport Looking forward to that. I think I like the auto shift the most on the pinion when coming to a stop. However I’m thinking if 3 is starting gear set (by default🤷🏻) for the ride event then that only leaves 3 other gears from 8 to 28mph. Pinions smart sift allows for customization of when it shifts but if 1 & 2 can be skipped on flat surface would’ve a C1.9 help erase ghost peddling in higher assists if present. I’ll wait to hear your assessment because I’m trying to equate it to the recommendation you’ve had to go to particular ratio and additional gear ⚙️ to help on a traditional chain setup with ghost peddling. It would stand to reason for hell hole if the assist and cadence shift could be set to have a linear smoother increase of power those gears could help in those situations. Thanks John.
The bike is worth every penny for what you’re getting. A fast, elegant, reliable,low maintenance bike that will last for years.
Some states define Class 3s without throttles. Stromer was probably trying to accommodate the more restrictive definition.
That makes sense, but a throttle could be removable to accommodate more stringent laws.
Just purchased an Aventon Adventure 2 and these reviews really helped me with figuring out which bike was right for me. The real world data is an amazing resource that I used for my search. Thanks a lot!
PS: spending $12k on a bike for marginally better performance than a $1500-2000 bike is ridiculous😂😂😂
Thanks for watching :) Glad you find the reviews helpful!
Very little of the difference has to do with performance. You are correct that the cheaper bike does 90% of what the expensive bike does. Same as it's been for about 150 years. Not fair to assume that 10% is wasted or irrelevant. I've had some expensive bikes that I bought used and there is a real difference in how they feel and ride. Not to mention intrinsic things like beautiful build quality ala welds and such.
The deal killer for me is there's no full suspension option from Stromer whereas I can get a full suspension from Riese & Müller Homage 4 GT Rohloff HS.
Full suspension would be nice, but for what it's worth, the suspension seatpost version felt great, and we expect that would only get better with the suspension fork option.
@@ElectricBikeReport .. I have a full suspension plus I also have that shock suspension on my seat and I'm sorry I disagree. Mine I feel like I'm on a floating carpet and now because my rear suspension is so smooth I'm looking into replacing my front fork.
Perfect detailed review, thank you for that. I'm looking for a replacement for my car and the ST5 and 7 are at the short list.
Thanks for watching! You definitely can't go wrong with either if you're considering the two.
Rolex of ebikes?
We'd definitely rather have the Stromer!
I had a Stromer ST1 10 years ago and it was a great bike. But for 12k it's GOTTA have suspension.
Any idea how many miles you got out of your ST1?
@@ElectricBikeReport Only had it a year or so. Had 2 or 3 at a time trying to ride everything I was curious about. 1,000+ for sure. Felt like a tank. My current German bike (Haibike) is 9 years old, 6,000 miles and still on the original battery at 90% capacity.
Which phone holder do you use? We are signed up for a "Boat Bike Tour" in Belgium and the Netherlands, and they are set up for using the Ride with GPS phone app to navigate their pre-mapped routes. A good secure phone holder would be helpful.
I'm not sure if this is the one I had on the bike in the video clip, but we really like this one: amzn.to/4bSuXPc
I have owned stromer bicycles since 2013, so I speak from personal experience. For what you’re getting they are an excellent value. These are sturdy, fast, reliable, and durable bicycles. In the short run they seem to be a foolish extravagance; in the long run, however, you come to understand why they are priced the way they are. More, the price of this unit may seem extreme until you explore the high-end bicycle market. Some road bike frames alone are upwards of 12k. It is not out of the ordinary to pay 20k or more for some custom road bikes. The bottom line is that quality comes with a cost.
Excellent points!
Couldn't agree more. And I'd argue that the security features of the Stromer aren't really a luxury in many places. You either have them (or the Bosch equivalent) or else you have to babysit your bike to prevent it from being stolen.
Will be interesting to compare to the $2000 Lectric One
Mid-review for that one currently. Stay tuned :)
I know I am cheap, but I cant picture myself paying over 500 for any bike..... $12000 I would be looking for a car, upgrades to my house, etc....
I didn't either and now I have a couple $1800 bikes. Safer than my much more expensive motorcycle.
and yet Mercedes still sells lots of cars. Go figure.
This is a car replacer. Aimed at people who use this on the daily for a commute. Cars are stupid for that.
You're not cheap. Until this year I never paid more than that as well. The reason I did now was to buy a roadbike/gravelbike to get in shape and relax in my free time with some comfort and style. Not just to get from A to B with 3 mile distances, but also be able to cycle for 30+ miles.
I'm currently looking into swapping my 1 hour commute with public transportation (traffic is impossible) to a 42 km/26 mile speed pedelec ride with a Stromer. Leasing it through work in Europe actually is extremely attractive with the compensation paid by some employers (40 eurocents/km). You're not actually paying anything.
Would I buy this out of my savings? No effing way.
I understand. But the country where I live, we get paid to use a bicycle (electric of regular) to go to work. Our company offers a very attractive lease-contract, which makes the types of bicycles very affortable and even earn money for riding it daily. That's not the case with motorcycles and cars.
Just the thing I need for running around the compound in Kennebunkport :)
It's an e-motorcycle though, has no place on bike paths or walking infrastructure. Too heavy, powerful and fast. Great to ride on the road surely.
Wow that motor is soooooo quiet 😮
Worth it.
A hub motor bike for $12k! Just a reap off. They could use the Pinion motor that combines the trans and motor.
Yeah, I'd love to see them try this approach. But their existing motor is absolutely bad-ass so they might not be super motivated to go that route.
We'd like to see that in the future too, but I'll second what @BoulderHikerBoy said, this motor is something special.
Hub is way better than mid drive. Mid drive is a joke.
I have an ST7 and must say the Pinion system and Gates Belt drive are a very expensive way to communicate with the torque sensor to drive the motor. I mean, 90pct of the power will come from the battery and motor, only 10% from the front pedals.
Nice bike but too expensive. $5K sure. I can buy 8 lower quality ebikes with close performance for the price of this one.
That hard to believe.
$12,000 for a hub drive e-bike?! No thankyou. I'll stick with a motorcycle for my commuting.
Different strokes for different folks!
why not a test uphill throttle mode only, your test uphill depend on the rider strength and it sounded like he was out of breath peddling hard. for over 12k it heats up in sport mode, not worth it, you can buy a Aventon or wired Ebike for 2k much faster throttle only and no overheat. this bike is overpriced by 10X. If the bike belt breaks your stuck where you are as a chain motor drive with throttle you can ride without peddling if chain breaks.
This bike does not include a throttle, hence the single pedal test at Hell Hole. It really had no trouble climbing!
12k no way
Comfortable you look like your leaning over to much I’d say looks uncomfortable 12k that’s laughable don’t care what gadgets it has
As I said in the Ride Quality section, the riding position felt uncomfortable on other bikes, but Stromer nailed the geometry.
I was also concerned about this at the outset, but I got the comfort package and just adjusted the handlebar position and seat position so that I'm reasonably upright. And with those adjustments, it's just right. The question of whether it's worth the money depends on whether you need the features. If you live in a place where ebikes are frequently stolen, any Stromer is worth every penny.
It's going to be a Globe Haul ST or Lectric One for me. But cool bike!
This is for people with $200,000 cars to show to their friends.
Or folks who don't want a car at all.
@@BoulderHikerBoy A $12k bike isn’t because you don’t want a car. It’s because you want to show off.
Not necessarily. The features of the Stromer make it a car killer, providing the range, speed, reliability, and security that one would want when going without a car. Other bikes with a similar feature set cost as much. And it really is a sensible investment when one thinks of the ebike as a car replacement. Most people don't even know Stromer or what they cost so buying one isn't a very effective way to show off.
@@BoulderHikerBoy What feature set is today which costs $12,000?
@@DM-fp8uw Look at Riese & Mullers with motor lock, High Speed motor, Bike Trax, ABS, belt drive, and the Rohloff IGH. Roughly the same price but you still don't get the range of a Stromer, and Rohloff isn't as good as Pinion. Plus, all Stromers have the same security features and they are sufficiently distinctive in appearance that thieves just don't bother with Stromers. They might mess around with a Riese and Muller for a bit before discovering that it's one that's equipped with the latest security. But all Stromers have had that security suite since Day 1, so thieves don't mess with them.
I have to be frank......if ANYONE....ANYONE.... pays Twelve Thousand American Freedom Eagles for a bike....they lack any measure of common sense.
"American Freedom Eagles" gave us all a chuckle. So thanks for that :)
Mine is awesome, and I think 12K is a bargain... no gas, no insurance, no registration, no maintenance, no noise, no pollution. Awesome mode of transport. A perfect compliment to my seldom used Chevy Bolt EV.
That moment of riding swiftly and silently was pure bliss.
I appreciate quality and love many of the features, and this bike highlights that control systems dictate motor responsiveness, rather than where the motor is located. That being said, is it really worth $10,000 more than a bike that climbs better, stops better, has longer range, accelerates quicker, and is faster? I guess time will tell, though I have 9,000 reliable miles on it so far.
Bliss, indeed. Thanks for watching! That's a seriously impressive number of miles.
@@ElectricBikeReport Yes, but I do need to replace my chain... something that you won't have to do on that one!
Cons: price, value, non-adjustable stem, pinion auto gears has only 6, display should be handlebar mounted for safety and braking is average.
This bike is trash. EBR call it as you see it, its not always a positive takeaway.
This channel gave a positive review on the overpriced turtle super 73
Actually, this bike is amazing. Yes, it's expensive, but the feature set is stunning. Don't let the number of gears fool you; it's not the number of steps but the total range that matters. For Pinion that range is 600%; and, frankly, the motor on this thing is so powerful that you don't need the lower gears except when you're just getting started from a stop. Once you're going, the last two gears are all you need. Stromer used to use a Pinion with more steps but the feedback was that the motor was so powerful that the lower gears were unnecessary. Anyway, I've got an ST2, and it's f'in amazing. No problem seeing the console, and it's actually great that it's integrated into the frame because it can't be stolen.
@@BoulderHikerBoy Your right about the gears on an ebike but, don't see the merit of an expensive pinion auto transmission. If its belt driven might as well be a mid drive. Its not a bad product just priced poorly which ruins its appeal for me a regular person. Same reason I don't care for exotic/luxury cars, their nice but, not attainable and limited functional improvement. I appreciate your post.
@@mikey3239 I want them to review a literal piece of crap and see them sing their praises. Its shit but I like it.
@@jasondelarosa5457 I actually agree about the Pinion thing. My ST2 has the Sturmey Archer IGH, not the Pinion set up, and I actually really like it. The rear hub motor on the Stromer is just as smooth as a typical mid-drive motor but with a lot more pep. But it's the security features on the Stromer that really set it apart. That and the big-ass battery. I'd say the question of whether it's priced poorly depends mostly on whether you actually need the features. For me, the invincible security and gnarly battery were the things that made it worth the money. I don't go that far usually, but I often deal with insane winds and hills, when it's really nice to have watt-hours to spare.
Interesting. But not for 12K. The tech will be dated in a few years and the bike looks huge and it's way too heavy - more like a motorbike than a bike.
Price is dumb. Pass
Thieves love taking these super expensive bikes, from the idiots that buy them! Easy $!
Actually, Stromers really can't be stolen. They have integrated GPS tracking, a constant connection to your mobile phone (to alert you if someone is messing with your bike), automatic motor locking (so the bike won't roll unless unlocked by keypad), and a motion sensing alarm. The bike will brick itself if you lock it from your phone or online account, so it can't be operated (or sold) without your authorization. The newest Bosch systems have some of these same features, but you then have to pay an annual subscription for the tracking service (that comes free for life with the Stromer). Because all of these features are standard on all Stromers (not an optional add-on), thieves know that it's not worth their time to mess with a Stromer. You should still lock your Stromer up, but you're much less dependent on the strength of that lock... which is good because any lock can be cut.
No. Not worth $12,000!
It seems most folks (who've commented, anyway) are comparing this bike to much cheaper alternatives, failing to recognize the value of the security features on all Stromers, the massive jump in range, and the reliability of IGH systems. Only Riese & Muller compares to the Stromers and, at a similar price point, still unfavorably, for a variety of reasons. Stromer is simply the best and it costs like it (because the Swiss steal all of the best engineers from Germany by paying them more). That's why Stromers have had tech since the ST2 that was just introduced by Bosch to the European market in 2023. No doubt, $12K hurts but you actually are getting what you pay for. The real question is whether you need all of what you're paying for. If you live in an area with a lot of bike theft, any Stromer is an unmistakable value. Thieves who know what they're doing don't mess with Stromers; thieves who don't know what they're doing mess with Stromers and get caught. If you're less concerned about theft, then Specialized (which is also Swiss-engineered) makes high-quality IGH, belt drive bikes for less money (but with less range). Use the money you saved to buy bike insurance and a second battery. Riese & Mullers are also excellent and can be configured to cost less... but when you add all of the features that come standard on a Stromer, they also cost an arm and a leg (and have a $60 annual fee for GPS tracking). Of course, you can buy a crappy car for $12K... and then spend $2K every year for insurance and another $1,500 or more in gas and then maybe another $1,500 per year in maintenance and repairs. In that light, a Stromer starts to make a lot of sense, if not as your sole vehicle then, at least, as a substitute for a second car. Actually, my Stromer is my primary vehicle. I still have a Subaru Outback for road trips, which I do often enough to justify ownership rather than car rental. But my Stromer is one of the best investments I've ever made. Virtually no maintenance, no concern about theft, and all of the torque and battery I need for the crazy winds and hills we have around here.
That all makes perfect sense. Happy to hear such positive feedback from a Stromer owner! Thanks for watching.
In London it wouldn't stay locked up on the street for more than 30 minutes, and they would never get caught :)
Good on you for replacing most of your car with it. I've been car free for years.
But you know to be realistic, for most all the people who will procure this one, it will be only for recreation on sunny days.
@@PRH123 I feel like I'm repeating myself: this bike cannot be stolen. It is continuously connected with your smartphone so any movement when the bike is locked will notify the owner immediately. If the bike is nonetheless stolen, the owner can activate theft mode from their phone. This disables the user interface aboard the bike and engages the regenerative brake unless and until the actual owner turns off theft mode. The bike's current location ascertained by constant GPS tracking is reported to both the user and Stromer. So, while it's technically possible to lift the bike and haul it away, it's unusable and unsaleable and very likely to be recovered unless the thief knows to keep it in faraday cage until the transmitter aboard the bike exhausts the bike's massive battery.
I wouldn't presume to know who the actual owners of Stromers may be. Perhaps some are just recreational riders (with bank), but these bikes are actually most valuable to folks who are depending on them as a replacement for a car. The range, power, security, drivetrain, and price point all aim in that direction. That is, a recreational rider likely doesn't need much of what these bikes provide and, so, probably wouldn't want to pay for those features. But, of course, there are folks who buy Hummers to poke around their suburb, so I wouldn't deny that some folks buy a Stromer just to show off. But we shouldn't hold that against the bikes themselves.
@@BoulderforAll-wj6zu not holding it against the bike as you say, just pointing out the fact, that most of the owners are just going to do some fair weather recreational riding, it has the potential to be a great car replacement, but unfortunately very few people in this range with this bike will do it. Awesome if they do, like yourself, but won’t be many. I’ve seen the e crowd in DE and CH, mostly older retired well-heeled people riding down to a restaurant on a nice evening or over to the supermarket, around the local area.
Bike thieves in London are pretty clever, they know how to deal with the gps trackers already. If you disconnect the controller from the motor there’s nothing to stop the motor from working. Even if they got frustrated and dropped it in the Thames, you still wouldn’t get it back.
@@PRH123 Competent thieves don't mess with Stromers because the GPS tracking is integrated, not an add-on that can be removed. Disconnecting the motor from the controller also disconnects it from power, leaving it locked in regenerative braking mode. If you need a generator and are willing to peddle pretty hard, I suppose the motor still has some value. So it's really just a matter of catching the incompetent thieves before they dump it in the Thames... which should be doable because you get an alert on your phone the moment someone attempts to move the locked bike.
I guess I'm just not prepared to speculate about who buys and rides expensive e-bikes. Here, anyway, the old farts are mostly driving; it's the commuters and parents (of young children) who invest in expensive ebikes. I'd guess a lot depends on whether a community has the sort of safe bike infrastructure and density that makes for high rates of bike commuting.
That is a much as a premium motorcycle. Just. No. Never.