As someone who grew up in Helsby as a kid and who visited Chester a fair bit, I really enjoyed watching this 😎👍🏻 Great job Johnny! Would be interesting to see if Merseyrail do indeed get the battery powered Class 777s on the Helsby to Ellesmere Port ghost line and create a North West loop line round to Warrington
I agree about the ironing board tyhpe seats the 507/508 ones were (are on South West Trains where the 4th car from the sets ended up in class 455 units).
Another great video 🤠 Been to Liverpool quite a few times and love the station! I have a soft spot for the 153s - I did my work experience with Porterbrook (who owns the 153s) so got to go in quite a few stored WMR and Northern ones! I also have fond memories of them from my many holidays in South Wales and Cardiff, lucky they're staying with them even after the South Wales metro finishes!
Another fab report, thank you, most enjoyable as always. Glad to see you were adequately fed and watered on the trip. Just had a quick read of the comments and you certainly have some very knowledgeable rail fans popping up here :)
The Daniel Adamson ('the Danny') art-deco steam tug is the vessel moored alongside the Sutton swing bridge. It has been fully restored after rotting for many years at Ellesmere Port boat museum and now does leisurely cruises along the River Weaver and/or the Manchester Ship Canal. A lovely way to spend a summer's day.
Another enjoyable and informative video. With so many train channels out there yours is one of the best commentaries and excellent editing. Cannot understand why you don’t have more followers. Thanks for all your good work.
And in return thank you for the support and the kind words. The count has been rising steadily all year and that is more than I'd hoped for a year ago. I'm just working on the premise that if if I keep making videos of reasonable quality and you keep watching them, then the rest will probably take care of itself! So thank you for doing your bit! 👍
We've yet to do the Liverpool to Chester via Runcorn route. I usually use Merseyrail, but then being a Merseyside resident I do get free bus and rail travel on my disabled pass. My other half accompanies me using the £6.00 Saveaway ticket. In the distant future when she eventually hits 60, she will get a Merseytravel senior pass.
It’s really annoying that there is a gap in the tfw timetable in the morning that doesn’t allow you to get to Liverpool before 9 without getting there silly early
@@gareththomas6714 you’d think they’d run a train at a time that would suit commuters into a major city. I’m sure there’s a valid reason but it almost seems deliberate
All of a sudden TfW have taken the early Wrexham-Chester-Liverpool off. Also this week the half 7 Wrexham-Bidston has gone this week...pretty pathetic for thpse who work in Liverpool
Where can you find the map you used at 2:21? Also rather than buying singles when you're around Liverpool, buy a Saveaway ticket instead - they cost just £6 and permit unlimited travel on all National Rail, Bus and Ferry services in Merseyside for the day :)
Map: I use Open Railway Map, which is an open source mapping solution. Obvs I have to draw the red lines on by hand on my Macbook! Saveaway: That's a great deal, and I'll definitely be using one of them if/when I return to Liverpool to discover a bit more about the city and its transport. Thank you so much for watching and for the helpful comment 👍
Yes, it's a great ticket, especially when the Merseyrail only (Northern and Wirral Lines) Daysave ticket is £5.90. The Saveaway, as you say is also valid on the ferry and buses and valid on services out of Lime Street main to destinations like Newton-le-Willows.
The Liverpool station is beautiful, especially the exterior; spectacular. A definite "wow". Another top-notch video, Mr Hoover. We haven't been to Chester...yet. It's on the ever growing "to do" list along with "must start to buy lottery tickets".
Yes, Lime Street was lovely and the light was so good with the sunshine coming through the trainshed. I've been to Chester and number of times. In the summer it is insanely busy. Once they had installed a one way system for pedestrians because it was so busy. However I went to a weekend American football event during the winter and it was much nicer and there was room to breathe (and I played pretty well too)... Thank you, as ever, for sticking with my stuff 👍
Actually really nice countryside when you were heading to Chester with TFW. Think no know I had the choice I would go on the TFW way in the older train, just for the scenery more than anything
Yes, I think I would, if travelling as a visitor. However, if I was commuting regularly to Liverpool for work, then it would definitely be Merseyrail. Also, people have said in the comments that TfW often use Class 197s on the route, so that would be another reason to pick the TfW route! Best wishes to you 👍
Yes. It's gotta be done! There's also some interesting destinations on the Wirral apart from going down to Chester. So a day mucking about on Merseyrail would be quite fun! Thanks for watching 👍
I used to live in Chester around 15 years ago so going to Liverpool with Merseyrail was one of our Saturday favourites. That time the ticket cost only 4 £ return so it was a no brainer. Only down side was that the last train back was fairly early (around 10).
On my visits to Liverpool i purchase the Merseyrail Day Saver and have no choice for my Chester journeys as the pass is not valid for Transport For Wales. But i would like to make that journey as i missed that opportunity last year after purchasing a Northwest Rover Pass but due to class 175 shortage, Liverpool to Chester was not operational via Halton Curve. Thank you for sharing the interesting video.
Many thanks - I enjoyed watching this. I just checked out the Merseyrail service on RealTime Trains, and the reversing timetable (Chester-Chester via the Liverpool loop) seems to have caught RTT's system out! For example, looking at Hooton departures, there are eight per hour to Chester - but of course four of those are via the loop ... For travellers, the Merseytravel timetable is clearest, though - as you say - most people will just turn up and wait. Unless you are travelling from Ellesmere Port, which only has a half-hourly service (no indication of that on the system map). I do hope they will upgrade that - it spoils the 'network' if you can't rely on being able to travel anywhere on it without having to check train times. You get the same problem on much of south London's suburban rail, a lot of which operates only half-hourly, and I'm sure that's why the main-line trains are used much less than the tube.
Thanks! Yes on the train themselves they say "Liverpool Central" on their destination indicator on the front of the train and I suppose somewhere in the loop it changes to "Chester". And I agree. True mass transit means never knowing the train times, except maybe the first/last train of the day and just rocking up to get the next one. That is what gets people out of their cars! Thank for watching 👍
Thank ypu for sharing the video. I am amazed how TFW Super Sprinters still on Liverpool to Chester services! Most of times is a 158 and not sure if 197s though.
Yes, someone else said the same thing. I suppose the question is whether I got lucky, or unlucky? I suspect the answer is "unlucky". Thanks for watching 👍
The TfW Halton Curve route has been two-hourly since COVID and departs from Lime Street during the odd hours of the day. But they have confirmed that they are going back to hourly from the December timetable change. They've also been operating with brand new Class 197 Civity trains for most of the past year now. So you must've been unlucky to get a 153 on the day you travelled.
I’ve done Liverpool to Chester on a Merseyrail class 507/508, as part of a wider journey to Manchester. I was supposed to do Liverpool to Manchester on Northern but then it transpired it would be a rail strike day so had to split my journey like so; the second leg was completed on a TfW Class 197.
Cool. The continuing rail strikes are really annoying. The government seems determined to not talk to the unions. Thank you for watching another video 👍
My nearest station is Earlestown. The North Wales trains come through going to Chester and beyond. But my wife has a pass that is free in Merseyside and all Mersy rail routes. So we go via Liverpool now.
I travelled to Liverpool via the Halton curve on a 175 when the service was first introduced and it was a smoother journey than rattling along on a 507 through the Wirral. With the 197 I would hope the ride will be of a similar quality even with the 'firmer' seats. I think you were unlucky with the imposition of a 153 pair. The TFW service will be extended to Llandudno when more trains are handed over from the manufacturer. It was to be from the December 2023 timetable and currently mooted for 2024...sometime.
Yes, others have said i was unlucky with the rolling stock on the TfW run. It will make much more sense as a route if it continues out through North Wales. Thanks for watching 👍
The problem with TfW is that they are not included in the off peak saveaway ticket which gives rail travel around the whole network, and buses in most places, for £6 per day (one zone £4.60). But that's unjoined up rail for you. We need locally controlled rail networks that have control over the serice providers rather than a profiteering free for all.
Yes I heard about the Saveaway from another commenter and it sounds like a great deal... especially if you are a youtuber wanting to do another video in Liverpool/Wirral 🤔
You are so right. Whilst I preferred the TfW route, you cannot deny that level boarding on Merseyrail makes life so much easier for people with access issues to go about their business without disruption. And level boarding helps everyone as it is also much safer and smoother for all. Thanks so much for watching 👍
A journey i would like to do. A good video! It shows you don't have to go somewhere exotic to find interesting subject matter. Mind! Some might find Liverpool a tad exotic!
For a Wetherspoons, that one at Lime Street is certainly spectacular! Love the huge room at the back with that tiled map and if I remember right, stuff about the Liverpool Elevated Railway?
Yes there was stuff about the elevated railway too. Say what you like about Wetherspoons, but bringing this space back to such a standard is certainly worthy of praise. Thanks for watching 👍
From what I have seen, the new trains are a lot faster than the old ones in terms of acceleration (same top service speed of 75mph, although the 777s have been clocked at 85mph). Once the old fleet has been fully retired, Merseyrail expects journey times to be reduced by up to 10 minutes, although in fairness there are very few stretches of track on the network where the trains can hit top speed. Even so, once the network is all 777, I'd expect the Chester run to be slightly quicker than the TFW option.
That's an interesting point you make. As you say, there's no way to improve the journey times with the mixed stock on the service. The real benefit of that improved acceleration will only come when all services are using the 777s. Thanks for watching 👍
Yeah. They are pretty good. But trains need a couple of years in service before we really know the score. But the level boarding is here now and is instantly a gamechanger for people. Thanks for watching another 👍
Could be interesting to do Northern vs Crosscountry between Leeds and Sheffield or heck between York and Sheffield if you wanted to do the Pontefract line
Great video. Liverpool Lime Street has to be one of my favourite stations. I hope the 777s can be used in pairs as the trains can get very busy with just a single unit.
@@JohnnyHooverTravels I'm not sure about platforms lengths on the Merseyrail network but it would be nice if the 777s could be lengthened if the platforms cannot accommodate a double 777 unit. Apart from the rock hard seats the 777s are absolutely fantastic trains and a worthy successor to the 507s and 508s.
@@JohnnyHooverTravels I've had a look at the sectional appendix (documentation of all the rail lines and stations) and most of the platforms are around 130 metres. A double 777 is also around 130 metres and the doors will have a shorter distance between them so it's quite likely that they planned so that they can double them for events and stuff
@@AlexanderBrassington Thanks for that! Very interesting indeed. as you say, especially for shifting masses of people to/from events, doubling up would be very handy indeed. Excellent point and great research 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels They have and still are extending some stations for 2×777 formations. Hunts Cross and Ainsdale for example have been done. Work at Southport is happening (slowly) to extend platforms 2&3 into the concourse a few metres, as track geometry doesn't allow extending at the Birkdale end of the station.
Bessy Braddock holds a handbag in one hand and in the other an egg, as she was the politician responsible for putting the lion standard mark on British eggs.
Ah yes - a couple of people have also remarked that was the case. Well done to her - I read about her afterwards and she was a very formidable operator for sure! Thanks for watching and for the comment 👍
Bessie Braddock was instrumental in the legislation that improved the quality and standing of eggs and why she is holding one in her sculpture next to Ken Dodd.
Ah someone else commented that it was mostly 197s now. I think on a 197, the route through Runcorn would tip the balance that way for me. Although the 15min Merseyrail service is soooo handy... Thanks for watching 👍
Hi Mr. Hoover, I recently discovered your channel amd I think you are absolutely amazing! You have the perfect content for me! May I suggest taking the London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street service or Liverpool Lime Street to Euston via Avanti West Coast? Its one of my favourite routes. I would also suggest the Belmond British Pullman from London Victoria to Broadstairs/Folkestone but it is quite expensive and I dont want you to waste your money.
I already have a London to Glasgow ride with Avanti on the channel, but that is on an un refurbished unit, so there's definitely mileage in repeating somewhat the journey by doing London-Liverpool on a refurbished unit. I will bear that in mind. Thank you for the very kind words. 👍 If you are new to the channel and have a fair bit of time then there is a playlist of all my trips in strict chronological order... so you can catch up on my travels over the last 18 months (and watch me getting better at making videos no doubt too!) th-cam.com/play/PLXk1cIVnitGYvh9laP5gL9x3kPfHZnS4x.html&si=DdczEKPt7cqbSD1a
Over the Halton Curve for the scenery. That’s my commute to work, LIV-CTR and that TFW service saved me during lockdown. The Miseryrail service is used as a necessity.
It's a shame such old DMUs are used in this way, especially on newly reinstated routes, but it can't be profitable and isn't too surprising to see TfW keep their new stock for their main routes in this context.
I'm told by other commenters that this can often be a Class 197. So maybe I could have got a different ride on a different day 🤷♂️ Thanks so much for watching 👍
Didn't realize the 777s had entered active service on the Wirral lines, thought they were still on driver training, although I did see one yesterday when changing trains. The connection allowed time for a quick pint in the Town Crier pub opposite the station. Dare I ask your route from Chester home? My experience on a return trip to Wrexham wasn't good - 150 on a Holyhead-Cardiff service after the preceding Holyhead-Birmingham service had been cancelled. My understanding is the long term plan is to extend the Liverpool-Chester service to Shrewsbury and ultimately Cardiff although there's possibly capacity issues on the single track bit to Wrexham when they built the A483 dual carriageway and only put a single track bridge in, much like your Exeter-Waterloo line it had been reduced to single track in a cost cutting exercise.
Thanks for all that extra information. My route home was Chester-Newport- Bristol- Exeter. Very much the long way round, but the ticket was good value! Had a 197 Chester-Newport, but it could have easily been a 150. TfW really do need to drop the 150s from these long routes asap! Thank you so much for watching 👍
When we lived in Dorset a few years ago we regularly used the Marches line to get to Chester or the Cambrian Coast (anything to avoid XC and New Street!), at least we had the 175s then. Totally agree the 150s and 153s should be used on the long distance routes.
I did it in 2019. From Southport via Manchester to Euston, (Manchester as it has 3 trains per hour unlike just 1 from Liverpool). Liverpool Street-Norwich, Norwich-Lime Street. At Norwich it's shown on the passenger information system as Lime Street Liverpool, to avoid confusion with services to Liverpool Street. Needless to say, one passenger did make that mistake, which was luckily rectified by a change at Ely for a Kings Cross bound service. Going by the guards reaction, this must happen on a regular basis. It is a long journey, but very interesting, with two reversals en-route. One at Ely, and again at Sheffield. I don't mind 158s, the similar SWT (at the time) 159s were my preferred transport over any GWR offering from London to Exeter.
Hello Sir, thanks for this informative video. Is travelling from Liverpool to University of Chester is recommendable and feasible option according to you? Thanks
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Definitely. More importantly toilets onboard and in my case there was a trolley but that's not the norm and the consequence of the Manchester Airport service being too full to accommodate it
It's not in detail though. For example the route I drive, The speeds are different from Up and Down road. Oakham to Melton Mowbray as an example. Plus freight max speed limits are often lower. But it's still pretty good for information
@@davee4508 if you zoom in, it does show the actual info for each road, but it most definitely isn't definitive. In other news, I grew up trainspotting at Melton!
I'm actually surprised how slow the network is on standard rails with the exception of the Great Western and East Coast Mainline. The others rarely get beyond 110mph. The West Coast - think it;s our primary artery and the busiest mainline in Europe and with non-tilt it is limited to 110mph and once Pendolino's go around 2030ish, it'll be a downgrade with little scope without new-build. The heart has sunk looking at this!@@davee4508
I think personally that if you took Transport For Wales, its cheaper, and you actually have access to a toilet, and I like Class 153 Dogboxes more than the 777s
Ah yes. I did not mention the toilet in the comparison. Could be a welcome addition if you have been supping a few beers in Liverpool 😉 Thanks for watching 👍
As Simon says, it's the video transition that makes it appear shorter. I do that so that the pace of the video is better - otherwise you'll be sat watching coaches go past with not much else happening. I hope you're ok with that. Anyway, thank you so much for watching and commenting. I really appreciate every single one 👍
@johnwebster3224 You aren't alone. I quite often count the wagons on TH-cam videos, especially the long aggregate trains from the Mendips. Still amazing to see and hear a single 59 haul 43 x 102t stone wagons solo.
Interesting contrast between the trains. Although I usually prefer the quieter electric trains for a pleasant journey, the TfW 153 ride was definitely more scenic, so here lies the problem- scenery. It has always been a pleasure to look out of train windows to watch the countryside roll by, but you can't do that if if some idiotic graphic designer has plastered your windows with advertising vinyls. I have seen this happen on trains, trams and even on a scenic observation tower. In this comparison, TfW wins hands down.
Yes, interesting point. Obviously it would seem reasonable for TfW to have its routes that go into or out of Wales and England, but this one is entirely within England. Thanks for watching 👍
Yes. It's been mentioned by others too that the 777s are very hard seats. I suppose Chester and Southport are probably the longest runs on these and so many people have much shorter journeys. Thank you so much for watching 👍
When the 508/507 class were introduced the main complaint was the hardness of the foam seats compared to the 503/502 sprung horsehair ones ... So history repeats 😉😄😄👍
@@Mitch-HendrenNo surprises there, seat comfort has been downgrading ever since trains suddenly started to be treated like planes We're no longer passengers to railways, but commodities that they need to cram as many as possible as cheaply as possible (to them not to us)
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Good to see Mersey Rail kept the guards
Thanks for watching 👍
As someone who grew up in Helsby as a kid and who visited Chester a fair bit, I really enjoyed watching this 😎👍🏻 Great job Johnny! Would be interesting to see if Merseyrail do indeed get the battery powered Class 777s on the Helsby to Ellesmere Port ghost line and create a North West loop line round to Warrington
Yes, that will be interesting to see.
Thanks for watching 👍
I agree about the ironing board tyhpe seats the 507/508 ones were (are on South West Trains where the 4th car from the sets ended up in class 455 units).
@@brianfretwell3886 Yes. They are definitely designed for heavy use and short distances.
Thanks for watching 👍
The first video I watched that was made by you
@@Northerner_Transport_Hub aw thanks ❤️
Best wishes to you 👍
Another great video 🤠
Been to Liverpool quite a few times and love the station!
I have a soft spot for the 153s - I did my work experience with Porterbrook (who owns the 153s) so got to go in quite a few stored WMR and Northern ones! I also have fond memories of them from my many holidays in South Wales and Cardiff, lucky they're staying with them even after the South Wales metro finishes!
Great memories- thanks for sharing and thanks for watching 👍
The lift from Lime Street main line down to the Wirral line is much easier particularly if one has mobility difficulties or has much luggage.
@@f0urstr1ng good point. Thanks for that. And thanks too for watching 👍
Another fab report, thank you, most enjoyable as always. Glad to see you were adequately fed and watered on the trip.
Just had a quick read of the comments and you certainly have some very knowledgeable rail fans popping up here :)
Thank you, as ever. And yes, the people watching these videos often know far more than me!
Lovely video, you will find if you use a circular polarising filter on your lens you can avoid unwanted reflections from windows.
Thanks for the kind words and for the advice. Just bought a filter, so will go out and give it a try in the future!
And thanks for watching too 👍
Interesting. I did a similar thing a while back by going to Chester by TfW and back via Merseytravel. The TfW route is obviously more scenic.
@@tonyrobertson498 Yes, that's for sure 😁
Thanks for watching 👍
The Daniel Adamson ('the Danny') art-deco steam tug is the vessel moored alongside the Sutton swing bridge. It has been fully restored after rotting for many years at Ellesmere Port boat museum and now does leisurely cruises along the River Weaver and/or the Manchester Ship Canal. A lovely way to spend a summer's day.
Thanks for that excellent piece of extra information. That really does sound like a great way to while away a summers day. 👍
Another enjoyable and informative video. With so many train channels out there yours is one of the best commentaries and excellent editing. Cannot understand why you don’t have more followers. Thanks for all your good work.
And in return thank you for the support and the kind words. The count has been rising steadily all year and that is more than I'd hoped for a year ago.
I'm just working on the premise that if if I keep making videos of reasonable quality and you keep watching them, then the rest will probably take care of itself!
So thank you for doing your bit! 👍
Brilliant video, great scenery on the tfw route. Hope all is well, take care
All is great thank you. Thanks for watching another 👍
We've yet to do the Liverpool to Chester via Runcorn route. I usually use Merseyrail, but then being a Merseyside resident I do get free bus and rail travel on my disabled pass. My other half accompanies me using the £6.00 Saveaway ticket. In the distant future when she eventually hits 60, she will get a Merseytravel senior pass.
great video
@@urcringebro4706 thank you. And thanks too for watching 👍
It’s really annoying that there is a gap in the tfw timetable in the morning that doesn’t allow you to get to Liverpool before 9 without getting there silly early
Yes, I can imagine that is really inconvenient indeed!
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels yes it really is, so I use Miseryrail instead 🤣
bloody typical of tfw
@@gareththomas6714 you’d think they’d run a train at a time that would suit commuters into a major city.
I’m sure there’s a valid reason but it almost seems deliberate
All of a sudden TfW have taken the early Wrexham-Chester-Liverpool off. Also this week the half 7 Wrexham-Bidston has gone this week...pretty pathetic for thpse who work in Liverpool
Where can you find the map you used at 2:21?
Also rather than buying singles when you're around Liverpool, buy a Saveaway ticket instead - they cost just £6 and permit unlimited travel on all National Rail, Bus and Ferry services in Merseyside for the day :)
Map: I use Open Railway Map, which is an open source mapping solution. Obvs I have to draw the red lines on by hand on my Macbook!
Saveaway: That's a great deal, and I'll definitely be using one of them if/when I return to Liverpool to discover a bit more about the city and its transport.
Thank you so much for watching and for the helpful comment 👍
Yes, it's a great ticket, especially when the Merseyrail only (Northern and Wirral Lines) Daysave ticket is £5.90. The Saveaway, as you say is also valid on the ferry and buses and valid on services out of Lime Street main to destinations like Newton-le-Willows.
Handy to know about the ticket should I need to venture up that way!
The Liverpool station is beautiful, especially the exterior; spectacular. A definite "wow". Another top-notch video, Mr Hoover. We haven't been to Chester...yet. It's on the ever growing "to do" list along with "must start to buy lottery tickets".
Yes, Lime Street was lovely and the light was so good with the sunshine coming through the trainshed.
I've been to Chester and number of times. In the summer it is insanely busy. Once they had installed a one way system for pedestrians because it was so busy. However I went to a weekend American football event during the winter and it was much nicer and there was room to breathe (and I played pretty well too)...
Thank you, as ever, for sticking with my stuff 👍
Interesting side by side comparison. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks. And, of course, thank you for watching another 👍
Really good vid, easy to watch and informative too
Thank you so much for saying so, and thank you too for watching 👍
Actually really nice countryside when you were heading to Chester with TFW. Think no know I had the choice I would go on the TFW way in the older train, just for the scenery more than anything
Yes, I think I would, if travelling as a visitor. However, if I was commuting regularly to Liverpool for work, then it would definitely be Merseyrail. Also, people have said in the comments that TfW often use Class 197s on the route, so that would be another reason to pick the TfW route!
Best wishes to you 👍
When we travel from Liverpool SP to Chester, we always get the TfW service.
Sounds like a good plan! It is a lovely run.
Thank you so much for watching and commenting 👍
A fantastic video. Thank you for this amazing video 😊
That's very nice of you to say. Thank you so much for watching 👍
A lovely watch, I really enjoy your informative narration.
Thank you. Very nice of you to say so 👍
Really enjoyed the video, both route are really nice to travel on
Thanks Simon. Love to watch your stuff too 👍
I have never been through the Mersey Rail Tunnel. But it is on my list now.
Yes. It's gotta be done! There's also some interesting destinations on the Wirral apart from going down to Chester. So a day mucking about on Merseyrail would be quite fun!
Thanks for watching 👍
I used to live in Chester around 15 years ago so going to Liverpool with Merseyrail was one of our Saturday favourites. That time the ticket cost only 4 £ return so it was a no brainer. Only down side was that the last train back was fairly early (around 10).
Nice to hear stories of the lines I travelled. Thank you so much for sharing your memories and for watching 👍
great video! i’ve just been to chester on holiday, so this was an interesting watch.
Thanks, I'm pleased you enjoyed it 👍
On my visits to Liverpool i purchase the Merseyrail Day Saver and have no choice for my Chester journeys as the pass is not valid for Transport For Wales. But i would like to make that journey as i missed that opportunity last year after purchasing a Northwest Rover Pass but due to class 175 shortage, Liverpool to Chester was not operational via Halton Curve. Thank you for sharing the interesting video.
I hope you can make the journey through Runcorn next time you are in Merseyside.
Thanks for the kind comment and thank you also for watching 👍
Many thanks - I enjoyed watching this. I just checked out the Merseyrail service on RealTime Trains, and the reversing timetable (Chester-Chester via the Liverpool loop) seems to have caught RTT's system out! For example, looking at Hooton departures, there are eight per hour to Chester - but of course four of those are via the loop ... For travellers, the Merseytravel timetable is clearest, though - as you say - most people will just turn up and wait. Unless you are travelling from Ellesmere Port, which only has a half-hourly service (no indication of that on the system map). I do hope they will upgrade that - it spoils the 'network' if you can't rely on being able to travel anywhere on it without having to check train times. You get the same problem on much of south London's suburban rail, a lot of which operates only half-hourly, and I'm sure that's why the main-line trains are used much less than the tube.
Thanks! Yes on the train themselves they say "Liverpool Central" on their destination indicator on the front of the train and I suppose somewhere in the loop it changes to "Chester".
And I agree. True mass transit means never knowing the train times, except maybe the first/last train of the day and just rocking up to get the next one. That is what gets people out of their cars!
Thank for watching 👍
Thank ypu for sharing the video. I am amazed how TFW Super Sprinters still on Liverpool to Chester services! Most of times is a 158 and not sure if 197s though.
Yes, other people have commented that it unusual to see them on that TfW service.
Thank you for the kind words and thank you for watching 👍
Great video Johnny! I didn't realise they still used 153s on this route, it's been 197s since I did it a couple of times last year
Yes indeed, other commenters have said it is usually 197s. I suppose them's the breaks!
Thanks for watching 👍
Very unusual to find 153s on that route now, its booked as a 3car 197 these days, haven't seen anything other than 197s on there in ages!
Yes, someone else said the same thing. I suppose the question is whether I got lucky, or unlucky? I suspect the answer is "unlucky".
Thanks for watching 👍
I didn't know about TFW I go to Chester every few weeks on Merseyrail I'll give TFW a go next time. I'll check the time tables.
I think it's an hourly service. So not as handy as MR, but you do get the ride over the bridge!
Let me know if you go that way.
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Yes I may go next week. I can go TFW going and do the more handy Merseyrail back. Will be different run for me.
The TfW Halton Curve route has been two-hourly since COVID and departs from Lime Street during the odd hours of the day. But they have confirmed that they are going back to hourly from the December timetable change.
They've also been operating with brand new Class 197 Civity trains for most of the past year now. So you must've been unlucky to get a 153 on the day you travelled.
I’ve done Liverpool to Chester on a Merseyrail class 507/508, as part of a wider journey to Manchester. I was supposed to do Liverpool to Manchester on Northern but then it transpired it would be a rail strike day so had to split my journey like so; the second leg was completed on a TfW Class 197.
Cool. The continuing rail strikes are really annoying. The government seems determined to not talk to the unions.
Thank you for watching another video 👍
My nearest station is Earlestown. The North Wales trains come through going to Chester and beyond. But my wife has a pass that is free in Merseyside and all Mersy rail routes. So we go via Liverpool now.
@@philltolkien5082 sounds like a damn good reason to pick Merseyrail!
Thanks for watching 👍
My one is Ellesmere Port on the Wirral Line
I travelled to Liverpool via the Halton curve on a 175 when the service was first introduced and it was a smoother journey than rattling along on a 507 through the Wirral. With the 197 I would hope the ride will be of a similar quality even with the 'firmer' seats. I think you were unlucky with the imposition of a 153 pair.
The TFW service will be extended to Llandudno when more trains are handed over from the manufacturer. It was to be from the December 2023 timetable and currently mooted for 2024...sometime.
Yes, others have said i was unlucky with the rolling stock on the TfW run. It will make much more sense as a route if it continues out through North Wales.
Thanks for watching 👍
The problem with TfW is that they are not included in the off peak saveaway ticket which gives rail travel around the whole network, and buses in most places, for £6 per day (one zone £4.60). But that's unjoined up rail for you. We need locally controlled rail networks that have control over the serice providers rather than a profiteering free for all.
Yes I heard about the Saveaway from another commenter and it sounds like a great deal... especially if you are a youtuber wanting to do another video in Liverpool/Wirral 🤔
The Class 777 Merseyrail trains are very nice and much quieter. I quite like them at lot.
Yeah, they are pretty good. Thanks for watching another 👍
😊
I swear they just have the 15 mph out of Lime Street just so you can marvel at the amazing workmanship. It truley is fantastic
Haha maybe you are right there!
Thanks for watching 👍
I like the idea of the Level boarding, must be great for wheelchair users I would normally have to ask the station master to get the ramp for us.
You are so right. Whilst I preferred the TfW route, you cannot deny that level boarding on Merseyrail makes life so much easier for people with access issues to go about their business without disruption. And level boarding helps everyone as it is also much safer and smoother for all.
Thanks so much for watching 👍
A journey i would like to do. A good video! It shows you don't have to go somewhere exotic to find interesting subject matter. Mind! Some might find Liverpool a tad exotic!
Some may indeed! I could not comment! 😉
For a Wetherspoons, that one at Lime Street is certainly spectacular! Love the huge room at the back with that tiled map and if I remember right, stuff about the Liverpool Elevated Railway?
Yes there was stuff about the elevated railway too. Say what you like about Wetherspoons, but bringing this space back to such a standard is certainly worthy of praise.
Thanks for watching 👍
The Liverpool Overhead railway was the first elevated electric railway in the world
@@adrianbenn7250 it really is an interesting line/story - I certainly went down the rabbit hole looking at some TH-cam shows about it!
From what I have seen, the new trains are a lot faster than the old ones in terms of acceleration (same top service speed of 75mph, although the 777s have been clocked at 85mph). Once the old fleet has been fully retired, Merseyrail expects journey times to be reduced by up to 10 minutes, although in fairness there are very few stretches of track on the network where the trains can hit top speed. Even so, once the network is all 777, I'd expect the Chester run to be slightly quicker than the TFW option.
That's an interesting point you make. As you say, there's no way to improve the journey times with the mixed stock on the service. The real benefit of that improved acceleration will only come when all services are using the 777s.
Thanks for watching 👍
The Class 777 Stadler Metro units are one of the best trains that Stadler have manufactured for Merseyrail to replace the Class 507 and Class 508.
Yeah. They are pretty good. But trains need a couple of years in service before we really know the score. But the level boarding is here now and is instantly a gamechanger for people.
Thanks for watching another 👍
Could be interesting to do Northern vs Crosscountry between Leeds and Sheffield or heck between York and Sheffield if you wanted to do the Pontefract line
Indeed. Good suggestions 👍
Or via Harrogate?
@@quintuscrinis8032 oh gosh that would be a bit of a detour. Unless he just does York to Leeds?
@@quintuscrinis8032 definitely fancy a day out on the Harrogate line for sure 👍
Some cracking stations and tea at Betty's 😀
I'm doing Newcastle to Holyhead and have to switch trains in Newton-Le-Willows after that will be passing Chester
Have a great trip
Great video. Liverpool Lime Street has to be one of my favourite stations. I hope the 777s can be used in pairs as the trains can get very busy with just a single unit.
Thanks for the kind comment 👍
Would a pair not be too long for some of the platforms?
@@JohnnyHooverTravels I'm not sure about platforms lengths on the Merseyrail network but it would be nice if the 777s could be lengthened if the platforms cannot accommodate a double 777 unit.
Apart from the rock hard seats the 777s are absolutely fantastic trains and a worthy successor to the 507s and 508s.
@@JohnnyHooverTravels I've had a look at the sectional appendix (documentation of all the rail lines and stations) and most of the platforms are around 130 metres. A double 777 is also around 130 metres and the doors will have a shorter distance between them so it's quite likely that they planned so that they can double them for events and stuff
@@AlexanderBrassington Thanks for that! Very interesting indeed. as you say, especially for shifting masses of people to/from events, doubling up would be very handy indeed.
Excellent point and great research 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels
They have and still are extending some stations for 2×777 formations. Hunts Cross and Ainsdale for example have been done. Work at Southport is happening (slowly) to extend platforms 2&3 into the concourse a few metres, as track geometry doesn't allow extending at the Birkdale end of the station.
Bessy Braddock holds a handbag in one hand and in the other an egg, as she was the politician responsible for putting the lion standard mark on British eggs.
Ah yes - a couple of people have also remarked that was the case. Well done to her - I read about her afterwards and she was a very formidable operator for sure!
Thanks for watching and for the comment 👍
Bessie Braddock was instrumental in the legislation that improved the quality and standing of eggs and why she is holding one in her sculpture next to Ken Dodd.
Thank you. That is very helpful extra information.
and thank you too for watching 👍
You could do it by Northern only providing you change,I think in Manchester but there might be somewhere closer,and also Advanti WC, change Crewe.
yes indeed, but I didn't have that long... but the Northern one would be an interesting run I reckon.
thanks very much for watching 👍
Via Warrington would make sense
@@Mikeb1001 assuming that you walk from Warrington Central to Bank Q.
Its strange to see the 153s back on that line, thought the 197s had replaced them completely
Ah someone else commented that it was mostly 197s now. I think on a 197, the route through Runcorn would tip the balance that way for me. Although the 15min Merseyrail service is soooo handy...
Thanks for watching 👍
Hi Mr. Hoover, I recently discovered your channel amd I think you are absolutely amazing! You have the perfect content for me! May I suggest taking the London Euston to Liverpool Lime Street service or Liverpool Lime Street to Euston via Avanti West Coast? Its one of my favourite routes. I would also suggest the Belmond British Pullman from London Victoria to Broadstairs/Folkestone but it is quite expensive and I dont want you to waste your money.
I already have a London to Glasgow ride with Avanti on the channel, but that is on an un refurbished unit, so there's definitely mileage in repeating somewhat the journey by doing London-Liverpool on a refurbished unit. I will bear that in mind.
Thank you for the very kind words. 👍
If you are new to the channel and have a fair bit of time then there is a playlist of all my trips in strict chronological order... so you can catch up on my travels over the last 18 months (and watch me getting better at making videos no doubt too!)
th-cam.com/play/PLXk1cIVnitGYvh9laP5gL9x3kPfHZnS4x.html&si=DdczEKPt7cqbSD1a
Ps. I will also look at the Pullman
Over the Halton Curve for the scenery. That’s my commute to work, LIV-CTR and that TFW service saved me during lockdown.
The Miseryrail service is used as a necessity.
ah - well a local speaks! Yes, I can well understand how the Halton Curve route is preferable
Thanks for the local viewpoint. Much appreciated👍
It's a shame such old DMUs are used in this way, especially on newly reinstated routes, but it can't be profitable and isn't too surprising to see TfW keep their new stock for their main routes in this context.
I'm told by other commenters that this can often be a Class 197. So maybe I could have got a different ride on a different day 🤷♂️
Thanks so much for watching 👍
thanks for the video! @@JohnnyHooverTravels
Didn't realize the 777s had entered active service on the Wirral lines, thought they were still on driver training, although I did see one yesterday when changing trains. The connection allowed time for a quick pint in the Town Crier pub opposite the station. Dare I ask your route from Chester home? My experience on a return trip to Wrexham wasn't good - 150 on a Holyhead-Cardiff service after the preceding Holyhead-Birmingham service had been cancelled.
My understanding is the long term plan is to extend the Liverpool-Chester service to Shrewsbury and ultimately Cardiff although there's possibly capacity issues on the single track bit to Wrexham when they built the A483 dual carriageway and only put a single track bridge in, much like your Exeter-Waterloo line it had been reduced to single track in a cost cutting exercise.
Thanks for all that extra information.
My route home was Chester-Newport- Bristol- Exeter. Very much the long way round, but the ticket was good value!
Had a 197 Chester-Newport, but it could have easily been a 150. TfW really do need to drop the 150s from these long routes asap!
Thank you so much for watching 👍
When we lived in Dorset a few years ago we regularly used the Marches line to get to Chester or the Cambrian Coast (anything to avoid XC and New Street!), at least we had the 175s then. Totally agree the 150s and 153s should be used on the long distance routes.
Would like to do Lime Street to Norwich one day
So would I. I think it would make a great trip and video.
Thanks for watching 👍
I did it in 2019.
From Southport via Manchester to Euston, (Manchester as it has 3 trains per hour unlike just 1 from Liverpool). Liverpool Street-Norwich, Norwich-Lime Street.
At Norwich it's shown on the passenger information system as Lime Street Liverpool, to avoid confusion with services to Liverpool Street. Needless to say, one passenger did make that mistake, which was luckily rectified by a change at Ely for a Kings Cross bound service. Going by the guards reaction, this must happen on a regular basis.
It is a long journey, but very interesting, with two reversals en-route. One at Ely, and again at Sheffield. I don't mind 158s, the similar SWT (at the time) 159s were my preferred transport over any GWR offering from London to Exeter.
Who liked this short 😮more Comen soon
i wonder why transport for wales has a route that doesnt even go through wales.
The plan was for it to continue along the north Wales coast in the future.
Thanks for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels youre welcome! :D
Definitely Merseyrail for me
Tried to do this today - TfW Services not running at all.
Ah. That would mess it up!
This is exactly the problem everyone here is missing. Merseyrail is more frequent and more reliable. To go via TfW is too risky
Hello Sir, thanks for this informative video.
Is travelling from Liverpool
to University of Chester is recommendable and feasible option according to you?
Thanks
Probably. But google maps is your best way to check.
Thanks 👍
Really it depends on preference, me personally would choose Merseyrail if it's not a 777 and would choose TfW if I was desperate to get to Chester
Fair choice!
Thanks for watching 👍
What is the music at the start of the video
@@londonbus_46 it is just some licence free stuff from TH-cam.
Bessie Braddock was responsible for getting the Lion mark put on eggs…
Brilliant! Thank you! Now that makes sense. Thanks for adding that information 😃
...and thanks for watching too 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels love your videos! We watch them all. We’re down on the south coast in Selsey, West Sussex
@@lynn47001 thank you! It's lovely to hear that. Best wishes from Devon 👍
Merseyrail - more stops than a church organ !
Haha! I know what you mean!
Thanks for watching 👍
Are the TFW class 153 any more comfortable than the ones that GWR operated on your local line?
Not really. Pretty much like a GWR 150, although the TfW interior is definitely brighter.
Thanks for watching 👍
Done both and personally prefer the tfw , even if it is the 153s
Yes. It is a nicer run over the bridge 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravels Definitely. More importantly toilets onboard and in my case there was a trolley but that's not the norm and the consequence of the Manchester Airport service being too full to accommodate it
@@GabrielsReviews ah yes, toilets. Never an issue until it is an issue! Very good point 👍
Both your graphics say 27 miles, 43 km. But voice-over man says one is 10 miles shorter 🤷♂️
Look again. On the second run, there is a new time/distance shown in the left.
Nevertheless, thanks so much for watching 👍
@@JohnnyHooverTravelsOh so there is, can't see for looking!
Thanks for the high quality content 👌
Where do you source the speed profiles map?!
It is the open source Open Railway Map. I like the clarity and simplicity of its style.
Best wishes and thanks for watching
It's not in detail though. For example the route I drive, The speeds are different from Up and Down road. Oakham to Melton Mowbray as an example. Plus freight max speed limits are often lower.
But it's still pretty good for information
@@davee4508 if you zoom in, it does show the actual info for each road, but it most definitely isn't definitive.
In other news, I grew up trainspotting at Melton!
I'm actually surprised how slow the network is on standard rails with the exception of the Great Western and East Coast Mainline. The others rarely get beyond 110mph. The West Coast - think it;s our primary artery and the busiest mainline in Europe and with non-tilt it is limited to 110mph and once Pendolino's go around 2030ish, it'll be a downgrade with little scope without new-build. The heart has sunk looking at this!@@davee4508
I think personally that if you took Transport For Wales, its cheaper, and you actually have access to a toilet, and I like Class 153 Dogboxes more than the 777s
Ah yes. I did not mention the toilet in the comparison. Could be a welcome addition if you have been supping a few beers in Liverpool 😉
Thanks for watching 👍
Is there level access at Chester, I couldn't quite see in the video
Yes, I believe there is.
Thanks for watching. 👍
Your 777 appeared to be a two car set - most of them are four car, so what was the reason for short-formed?
There is a video transition that appears to shorten the length of the train. hahaha
Kind Regards
777s are fixed 4-car units of an articulated design.
As Simon says, it's the video transition that makes it appear shorter. I do that so that the pace of the video is better - otherwise you'll be sat watching coaches go past with not much else happening. I hope you're ok with that.
Anyway, thank you so much for watching and commenting. I really appreciate every single one 👍
@@Simonj110 It's just that I like to count the number of coaches on any train! A throw back to my juvenile train-spotting days, now long gone!
@johnwebster3224
You aren't alone. I quite often count the wagons on TH-cam videos, especially the long aggregate trains from the Mendips. Still amazing to see and hear a single 59 haul 43 x 102t stone wagons solo.
Interesting contrast between the trains. Although I usually prefer the quieter electric trains for a pleasant journey, the TfW 153 ride was definitely more scenic, so here lies the problem- scenery.
It has always been a pleasure to look out of train windows to watch the countryside roll by, but you can't do that if if some idiotic graphic designer has plastered your windows with advertising vinyls. I have seen this happen on trains, trams and even on a scenic observation tower. In this comparison, TfW wins hands down.
Hell yes - sticking stuff all over the windows is just awful...
Thanks for watching 👍
Easier to fare dodge on Merseyrail, apparently.
I could not possibly comment...
...but thanks for watching 👍
Wtf
Exactly. Waive The Fare.
Not really. Depending on the time of day you can totally fare dodge on the TfW route. Key is to go when it's mega busy
The only sad thing about the TFW route is that you have to travel through Runcorn! 😂
Well I loved the bridge and the river there. As for the town itself, I couldn't possibly comment...
Thanks for watching 👍
what map is that (with the speed limit layers)?
It is OpenRailwayMap with the speed restriction tab selected.
where did you get the map at 2:03 from?
It is a screen grab from Open Railway Map, which is effectively open source mapping.
Thanks for watching 👍
Hi Johnny, what would be the difference in fares if you just got a day return?
TfW £6.80. MR £8.75 although other commenters have mentioned good value day rover type tickets too.
Thanks for watching 👍
Very odd how tfw operate a service outside of wales
They operate at least as far as Manchester
Yes, interesting point. Obviously it would seem reasonable for TfW to have its routes that go into or out of Wales and England, but this one is entirely within England.
Thanks for watching 👍
Long-term plan is for the route to extend to Llandudno, Shrewsbury and Cardiff.
@@revonvideo ah. Thanks for that clarification. 👍
Yet another excellent video. Shame about the tramp who kept getting in front of the camera.
Yes indeed. He claimed to be growing a beard, but we all know he just couldn't be arsed to shave...
thanks for watching 👍
Agree! I've shaved 23,000 times so far.
merseyrail needs to be seperated from the rail network and be its own system similar to London Underground.
I suppose it kind of is. It all depends where the money comes from 🤷♂️
Thanks for watching 👍
This is silly. It's connection into Wales and the wider N West England region is what gives it it's benefits.
You would have a lower carbon footprint travelling with merseyrail
Fair point that.
Thanks for watching 👍
9:27 say what you will about comfort. The seats on 507/8s are so much comfier than the ones on 777s.
Yes. It's been mentioned by others too that the 777s are very hard seats. I suppose Chester and Southport are probably the longest runs on these and so many people have much shorter journeys.
Thank you so much for watching 👍
When the 508/507 class were introduced the main complaint was the hardness of the foam seats compared to the 503/502 sprung horsehair ones ... So history repeats 😉😄😄👍
@@Mitch-HendrenNo surprises there, seat comfort has been downgrading ever since trains suddenly started to be treated like planes
We're no longer passengers to railways, but commodities that they need to cram as many as possible as cheaply as possible (to them not to us)