Star Trek II - The Wrath of Khan - theatrical version vs. ABC TV cut 1/2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- This video compares two versions of the classic movie Star Trek 2 - The Wrath of Khan. On the left side you can see the famous ABC TV cut, on the right side you can see a transfer of a pan & scan version of the theatrical cut.
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I grew up watching a version of this movie that we taped off of abc. This was probably in 1987 or 1988. It had all of the additions and alternate takes listed here, but it also had most of if not all of the deleted material intact. It is possible it had a couple of shots of the Ceti eel entry cut out. But other than that, I am sure most of the rest was there. I can distinctly hear in my head the way “It is very cold in space” was cut abruptly short by the commercial break, for example.
Same here. I distinctly remember watching a copy taped from TV from around 88 my parents made and it was definitely the ABC cut. It was the first time I had seen Wrath of Khan so I grew up with knowing about Peter being Scotty's nephew and all and was surprised none of that was in the theatrical version. Thank God the Directors Cut years later kept that intact.
According to Nicholas Meyer, the TV version was his director’s cut. One of the biggest losses was the proper introduction to Scotty’s nephew in the engine room, which ruins the payoff later when he’s killed. The novelization of the script kept this info intact, and also indicated Saavik was half Vulcan, half Romulan.
The ABC cut doesn't have Saavik pushing the button to hold the elevator. When I was a kid that was the only version I had so Bones' line never made sense.
13:14 I like it when Scotty has an emotional feeling. Rest in peace James Doohan a brilliant actor
So Saavik was a lot more flirty with Kirk in the TV version of the turbo-lift scene.
They also only included the stuff on the recruit being Scotty's nephew for the TV version.
Interesting stuff.
Thanks, glad you like it
I wish there was a Blu-Ray of the ABC-TV version. It's my favorite version by far.
It's pretty much the Director's Cut, except the scene in the turbolift, which is taken from the theatrical cut. Everything else in the TV cut was in the Director's Cut which you can get on DVD and now on Blu-ray.
Yeah I think I prefer the theatrical/director's cut of the turbolift scene. I know Kirk already had quite the reputation as a ladies' man, but Saavik being a bit flirty kind of feels inappropriate. Plus she doesn't push the button to hold the turbolift in the ABC version. So why does Kirk push the button for the turbolift to resume when neither of them put it on hold in the first place. (Other than so Bones can ask "Who's been holding up the damn elevator?!" that is. lol)
@@AndrewChapman You're right. The turbolift scene feels way too intimate when shot in close ups.
Great job synching the two feeds so well.
The only difference that I can think of that was missed here was during the Kobayashi Maru scenario. When Saavik asks for data, the audio for the ABC print also includes the registration number as part of the readout.
Hm, I have to check it, I might have missed it.
Ya you better
'Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan' premiered on ABC in 1985
+TrekkieChannel +Travis Ford I can confirm that; I remember watching it
in my off-campus apartment during the spring semester of my first year in grad school which was 1984-85, date me as it may.
It's interesting how many alternative takes (apparently specifically for television) were made. Slightly snappier editing eg in the scene with the Regula One crew debating what to do about Reliant. I've heard rumors the studio may have mandated these just in case they decided to release it as a TV movie instead of straight to theaters.
OMG, There are a few clips here I've never seen before, genuinely surprised!
They are pretty much all in the Directors Cut - well worth owning on Blu-Ray!
My dad recorded this off of HBO in the early 80's, looks pretty much like the laserdisc version you have here and it also has that crude looking subtitles for the Saavik and Spock Vulcan translation.
Later, I recorded the off-air ABC broadcast in the late 80's, I guess around 1989 and it's pretty similar to this. A few years later, our local ABC affiliate broadcasted it again in the early 90's, and I recorded over the nationally broadcasted 1989 one. It seems the same but it looks like a newer film transfer. It's much brighter and cleaner too, and has the extra scenes. I always wonder where that transfer came from.
Also, I believe there's an extra line of dialog in the training part at the beginning, the computer telling about the Kobyashi Maru's registration, right before Saavik says "...damn."
If you purchase the Director's cut, it leaves in everything from the original and the extended scenes.
It truly is the best of both worlds. One of the better Director's Cuts IMO next to the one for Star Trek the Motion Picture as well which is an improved film over it's theatrical cut.
Wow, nice job taking the time to do this. Very cool!
+Wills AndTheWays Glad you like it.
The ABC cut was the first time I'd seen the film, and the turbo-lift shot is what I miss most on every viewing since. The head-shots of Saavik and Kirk add so much, it's such a COLOSSAL waste that it's not in any of the DVD, blu ray or streaming versions.
I bet the guy who cut it for ABC thought he was being very clever in cutting off Khan mid sentence at 4:28 ... he wasn't, and it was an unnecessary edit. Thank god the days of the 4:3 ratio and Pan & Scan are over.
I have the ABC cut and it's not edited out.
That was great. But there is another scene on the Bridge where Spock explains to Savik about the human ego when Khan decides to follow Enterprise into the nebula.
These videos only show the differences between versions
@@TrekkieChannel I'm pretty sure the exterior of Ceti-Alpha V when they meet Khan's people outside is a little longer and clearer; closer to images from the poster. But that wasn't in the other video between regular and director's cut.
My favourite Star Trek movie. Original version or director's cut is fine by me. This films needs, as the one, out ways, the needs of the many! It has been, and always shall be, my favourite! 🖖
Not surprised ABC cut the close up shot of the eel entering Chekov's ear. That's still creepy as hell.
I think they figured the G rating of Star Trek: The Motion Picture reduced its box office, so they needed to have something a little more grownup to get a PG and be taken seriously. As to the ear worms, Khan's people were pretty stupid if they slept outside with their ears to the ground, and lost more than 1 person; they weren't the Aliens from Sigourney Weaver's movies.
In the ABC version, when the bridge got hit by that torpedo during Khan's first attack, a crewman can be heard screaming.
Kirstie Allie was one gorgeous woman
Still is
Yeah I realised that after I posted the comment and also doing some image searches on the Goog
If I hadn't read Vonda McIntyre's novelization, none of these deleted scenes would make any sense in the framework of the finished film. It's a damn shame that they could not have been included in the final Director's Cut, because they fill in a whole lot of blanks.
Why was dialogue at 3:06 and Khan saying "James Kirk" at 4:29 edited from the ABC cut?
Hmm, I don't care much for the alternate take of the turbolift scene. I think I prefer it as one long shot as it seems more creative.
I have the ABC cut and it's not edited out.
5:35 - I knew he spoke to him, but it's not on the Amazon Prime version. Bastards!!
To this day I still don't understand why the part of Peter Preston being Scotty's nephew was cut from the video release? It added depth to the story.
He had an even much bigger role in the novelization, I don't know if the scenes were filmed or not
@@TrekkieChannel They weren't. That was all stuff the author expanded on for the book. Same with the scenes involving the Regula 1 scientists and staff when the Reliant arrives. That stuff alone would have made the film close to R-rated the way it's described in the book.
@@alucard624 I remember reading the TMP and TWOK novelizations a year or two ago and I feel that if the directors had the time available, already great movies could have been even more incredible.
that said, the problem is that you can only make a movie so long until it becomes bloated. this, imo, is a problem with the motion picture as a format.
if you were to do a straight adaptation of the books, you'd probably get a half hour to an hour of runtime. a 3 or a 4 hour program can be made to work as a TV film/miniseries.
the problem there becomes budget. it might be different today, but back in the day, the budget for a movie was greater than that of miniseries, and I simply can't see anyone having the budget for this outside of a movie studio.
There’s one scene I distinctly remember that I saw on the (I believe) the HBO premiere showing of ST II of Khan making mention that the Sand Killers “carried their young on their backs...” but never saw it again. I’m pretty sure I saw it cause it clicked with my memory of Khan pulling out the young from the back of the mother.
Don't remember such a version (which does not mean it doesn't exist), dorry
@@TrekkieChannelI vaguely recall, during the Ceti eel scene on Ceti Alpha V, Khan saying something like “these are only the babies”. I don’t remember if it was on the TV broadcast version or in the theater.
1:44 "2283 ..." yeah, well it takes this stuff a while to ferment .... but this is set in 2285. I guess 2 years is a long time for an ale, but it always seemed to be a really strong liquor. Always confused me.
I think Kirk was saying 2283 pointing out how new it was and McCoy was being sarcastic when he said it takes time to ferment
It's almost like Myer used different "takes" for the ABC version.
He did, but he insisted that the alternate takes ABC used were never meant to be used. The ABC version was not done with Meyer's approval, just as their extended version of the first film was done without the late Robert Wise's input. They had a habit of doing that in the 80's; the worst instances were the first two "Superman" movies.
@@cubdukat You're are correct about TMP and Wise said in an interview that if he had his way, neither the Special Longer Version, nor the theatrical release would exist. However, Meyer in his own words has stated that he produced what's called the ABC-TV version...
"I put that together" Meyer told Cinefantastique Magazine in 1992. "It's ironic as a director of a feature I may not have final cut, but as a director of the television version, no one cares. Places were I was overruled, rightly or wrongly, I get to have the last word. It's very dangerous just to put things back for the sake of putting them back. I am not persuaded that artists are the best judges of their own work."
At the 3:42 mark, and on the ABC side of this shot, there is a close up of Judson Scott pushing Terrel's helmet in Khan's direction for the Ceti Eel. That's the first time I can remember seeing the cropped (Pan & Scan) television version like that. Not sure if that is an indication that they used a different setup, but it was curious.
@@cubdukat Wise would definitely never have approved of the infamous Kirk in the space suit scenes being put back into TMP considering they were obviously never finished. Still blows my mind that ABC just put those scenes in there knowing you can clearly see the soundstage with Shatner in the suit he wore for the original Memory Wall sequence that was cut due to numerous issues.
ABC cut was the Director's Edition?
There is another part in the beginning where Spock mentions Saavik being half Romulan.
No, that scene is only in the NATO trailer, it wasn't added to any version of the film. Just like the scene in the end on the bridge when Kirk's son meets Saavik.
TrekkieChannel I remember both scenes only being in the book; of course this was over 36 years ago, so memory may fail me...
There's a scene towards the end of Search for Spock that's only in the book, where a young girl comes up to Spock and says something to him on Mount Seleya. Oddly, she's listed in the credits at the end of the film...
ABC TV cut had AMBER TAU CETI during KM test.
The dvd has the same missing pieces as the abc cut
What version is it that has a completely different discussion between Saavik and Spock in the torpedo bay?
Related fact:- Saavik was meant to be a he, but they couldn't find a suitable actor to play the part, so they choose the actress who eventually played Saavik. Unfortunately, they (the script writer's) couldn't/wouldn't/didn't change the for whatever reason.
Change the what??
If you mean the dialogue, i.e. Mister Saavik, I always assumed that's just adhering to old naval regulations where everyone's referred to as mister? Is that not a thing?
The director's cut fixes a lot of this. It's been such a long time since I'd seen the director's cut that I couldn't tell the changes
So what happened to the diologue between Kirk and Sulu as they are approaching the docking bay and Sulu says "that any chance to be back aboard the Ent" and it's traditionally cut, but Sulu goes on to say "erprise is just fine with me".... What happened to that???
Not sure, it's missing on the copy of the ABC cut I have. But it's a weird cut, it almost feels like a technical misstake
That bothered me for over 30 years, but there's actual audio of the Sulu's full speech in the scene. Here it is: th-cam.com/video/_rrjzF9yAr0/w-d-xo.html
They showed the creepy bug working it's way up into the ear in both ? I think that was pretty nasty to show on regular TV.
Yeah, but the TV version of the scene is edited. Back in the early or mid 2000s I seen the Director's Cut on TV (the first time I seen that version), and for the most part it was uncut, however, the scenes with the bugs were still trimmed.
What he said for Admiral James T. Kirk at 00:06:35???
Do you have the ABC Premiere of The Motion Picture?
Yes
@@TrekkieChannel Would you consider a trade?
ych1964@gmail.com
The Directors Cut seems to have turned out a perfect combination of the 2 versions. Are there are major differences not in the DC?
The main difference which I remember between the director's cut and the ABC cut is that the scene between Saavik and Kirk in the turbolift. The DC DVD uses the same version of the scene as the theatrical cut, the ABC version uses the alternate close-ups
The Directors Edition is an almost perfect presentation of the ABC TV cut. The only thing that spoils it slightly is the omission of the flirty Saavik/Kirk elevator scene. That aside, its basically the TV cut without the censorship edits.
@@Ashworth6 Using the close-up takes for TV was smart because the theatrical two-shot doesn't fit in the 4:3 aspect ratio. A problem with using the closeups is Saavik didn't push the turbolift stop button in that take but Kirk pushes the resume button in all of his.
@@MagicAl5F4781 also it's a little odd for a Vulcan to be flirting with her commander, even if she is supposedly half Romulan (though the audience doesn't know this in the movie). The closeup coverage was a good way of keeping costs down when re-editng for TV, but the performances of both actors are legitimately not as good. The "canon" version has her restrained but with a hint of emotion and Kirk's demeanor is more captainly.
Can you upload the “data on kobyashi Maru” audio from the beginning of the movie please? The abc version. There’s a technical bit that differs from the theatrical and directors cuts.
I'll try to upload it in the next few days
@@TrekkieChannel thank you so much!🖖
@@TrekkieChannel Were you able to find the bit I mentioned?
hi Sophie :D
Do ABC vs direct cut
Maybe one day, sure, why not?
I dunno, is it really worth it? Apart from the alternate take of the turbolift scene, a few trimmed shots and the obvious pan and scan 4:3 presentation, the ABC cut is more or less the same as the director's cut.
Ok
@@AndrewChapman And them cutting out Spock's "Fascinating" after Kirk tell him that David is his son.
Though JJ Abrams did an excellent job, beyond expectations, in bringing Khan back, it's still no match for The Wrath of Khan.
+Potrimpo The JJ Abrams version doesn't even come close to compare. Into Darkness is about as good as Terminator: Genisys compared to the original Terminator.
Michael Anderson
Another low brow.
***** Just stating an opinion. And my opinion is equally valid to those who enjoy the JJ flicks. I do not. Simple as that.
Michael Anderson
Yet you approached with your opinion as if it were the only valid one. If you had stated "In my opinion" or "I have to disagree", then it's a documented fact that what you had stated was an opinion.
Despite the fact that you did not use any terms that indicated an attack, such as "YOU FOOL!!!", the approach itself can be deemed hostile.
It seems as though that when I countered with my statement of "another lowbrow", an error I made because the term is one word, not two, you backed off with hopes that this will not escalate.
That being said, though in my opinion that when someone uses the term "Let's agree to disagree," to me it's a term that says an unwillingness to admit that the person who said that is in error. However I am willing to accept that your retort was the accepted definition of "Agree to disagree", and we shall leave it at that.
I think he did a terrible job, but that's me.
As with Mel Brook's High Anxiety and the Superman films every movie should have an ABC cut.
This version isn't even as good as the Director's Edition.
Agreed.
I like the Director’s Edition