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Ya wizards is lazy. They need to do alot to make game more fun. And free cheap etc. This game could ve really advamced. Combat styles.. helping dms make fun against power players etc...
As a DM, use the "fog of war" and adjust dynamically. In a battle, never have a single big monster. Rather, first have smaller monsters. As the players defeat the smaller monsters, more waves of smaller monsters can appear - hold them back behind the fog of war, so the players don't know they are there. In fact, they are in a quantum state - they are both there and not there at the same time, and YOU decide if / when / how many to bring into battle as you dynamically assess how the party is doing. As the players are fighting the big-bad, do the same thing: Reinforcements arrive during the battle, the timing and count of which is determined dynamically by you. Be careful once you actually place monsters on the board: Once players see a monster, the monster should be played appropriately, don't break the immersion. Don't plan battles as something determined statically ahead of time. Always have someplace that more opponents can come from, so the players can be surprised. Your dungeons should have multiple paths, so opponents can plausibly circle back around behind the players and setup ambushes. The room where the big-bad is should always have more rooms beyond it where reinforcements could be camping. Dungeons should have multiple entrances, some of which could be discovered by players ahead of time, but others which are probably so well hidden that they can only be discovered from inside the dungeon - that gives you more options for how opponents move around. I personally do redesign portions of dungeons from week to week, in the areas where players haven't explored yet. One week the players messed up and let the kobolds (hah!) know where they were and then the players camped in the dungeon. The kobolds proceeded to sneak around during the night and to collapse the entrances to the dungeon to trap the players, and during the week-to-week period I redesigned the dungeon they hadn't explored yet to give them a way to get out even after the collapse.
BiTD: I told my players that Strahd has an Intelligence & Wisdom of 18 or higher. He's smarter then I am & I'm not gonna hold back playing him that way. That got their attention.
@@DreadPyriteBob Shad's a TH-camr who happens to be a Medieval/Fantasy enthusiast. He likes to look at Fantasy tropes and see how they could be applied in a realistic setting. Case in point, fairies aren't armed with sewing needle-sized swords - no, because, due to the Square Cube Law, those fairies would carry swords that are the size of letter openers like 6 inches long compared to the average 3 inch tall fairy, either for stabbing folks in the eyes, or something like a fixed straight razor blade to make surgical cuts to vital areas that aren't well armored. Of course, the Sidekick rules can make kobolds, and other 1/2 cr or lower monsters, NPCs and animals a potent threat for higher leveled parties.
@@aralornwolf3140 if I recall the story correctly, tucker is a war veteran, and he played the kobolds as strategic geniuses. They designed devious and deadly traps to thwart the pcs. I don't know the whole story, but basically he used tons of traps and his expansive military knowledge to create a terrifying house of horrors for the players.
@@aralornwolf3140 It was a different game in a different time, where spells had more math involved in them, and monsters had skill and feat budgets to work with. Tucker's Kobolds had small tunnels, so that spells like fireball would have their concussive blast be channeled to hit the party too. Lightning bolt would bounce between walls, frying the kobolds on the way out, the way back, then your party until it bounces off the wall behind you and hits you again. The kobolds took up formations with twin shield users in front to provide cover for the crossbow sharpshooters behind them. The kobolds would engage the party at range, fire off a volley and flee. Pursuit would lead the party into some horrible trap with absolute certainty, which the kobolds themselves would avoid by taking small hidden side passages that are sized for small creatures. Fleeing the kobolds had a high (but not complete) chance of bringing the party into a room doused with oil, where portcullis slam shut over the doors and burning debris fall from the ceiling. Basically, use the most viscous and devious part of your brain to think up the most effective traps to kill intruders. Use your head and mastery of the rules to justify giving the kobolds every chance to whittle down the player's resources while exposing themselves to the least risk of harm.
@@aralornwolf3140 Tucker's Kobolds, Dragon Magazine issue 127 by Roger E. Moore - November 1987 We get letters on occasion asking for advice on creating high-level AD&D® game adventures, and Tucker’s kobolds seem to fit the bill. Many high-level characters have little to do because they’re not challenged. They yawn at tarrasques and must be forcibly kept awake when a lich appears. The DMs involved don’t know what to do, so they stop dealing with the problem and the characters go into Character Limbo. Getting to high level is hard, but doing anything once you get there is worse. One of the key problems in adventure design lies in creating opponents who can challenge powerful characters. Singular monsters like tarrasques and liches are easy to gang up on; the party can concentrate its firepower on the target until the target falls down dead and wiggles its little feet in the air. Designing monsters more powerful than a tarrasque is self-defeating; if the group kills your super-monster, what will you do next - send in its mother? That didn’t work on Beowulf, and it probably won’t work here. Worse yet, singular supermonsters rarely have to think. They just use their trusty, predictable claw/claw/bite. This shouldn’t be the measure of a campaign. These games fall apart because there’s no challenge to them, no mental stimulation - no danger. In all the games that I’ve seen, the worst, most horrible, most awful beyond- comparison opponents ever seen were often weaker than the characters that fought them. They were simply well-armed and intelligent beings who were played by the DM to be utterly ruthless and clever. Tucker’s kobolds were like that. Tucker ran an incredibly dangerous dungeon in the days I was stationed at Ft. Bragg, N.C. This dungeon had corridors that changed all of your donkeys into huge flaming demons or dropped the whole party into acid baths, but the demons were wienies compared to the kobolds on Level One. These kobolds were just regular kobolds, with 1-4 hp and all that, but they were mean. When I say they were mean, I mean they were bad, Jim. They graduated magna cum laude from the Sauron Institute for the Criminally Vicious. When I joined the gaming group, some of the PCs had already met Tucker’s kobolds, and they were not eager to repeat the experience. The party leader went over the penciled map of the dungeon and tried to find ways to avoid the little critters, but it was not possible. The group resigned itself to making a run for it through Level One to get to the elevators, where we could go down to Level Ten and fight ‘okay’ monsters like huge flaming demons. It didn’t work. The kobolds caught us about 60’ into the dungeon and locked the door behind us and barred it. Then they set the corridor on fire, while we were still in it. ‘NOOOOOO!!!’ screamed the party leader. ‘It’s THEM! Run!!!’ Thus encouraged, our party scrambled down a side passage, only to be ambushed by more kobolds firing with light crossbows through murder holes in the walls and ceilings. Kobolds with metal armor and shields flung Molotov cocktails at us from the other sides of huge piles of flaming debris, which other kobolds pushed ahead of their formation using long metal poles like broomsticks. There was no mistake about it. These kobolds were bad. We turned to our group leader for advice. ‘AAAAAAGH!!!’ he cried, hands clasped over his face to shut out the tactical situation. We abandoned most of our carried items and donkeys to speed our flight toward the elevators, but we were cut off by kobold snipers who could split-move and fire, ducking back behind stones and corners after launching steel-tipped bolts and arrows, javelins, hand axes, and more flaming oil bottles. We ran into an unexplored section of Level One, taking damage all the time. It was then we discovered that these kobolds had honeycombed the first level with small tunnels to speed their movements. Kobold commandos were everywhere. All of our hirelings died. Most of our henchmen followed. We were next. I recall we had a 12th-level magic user with us, and we asked him to throw a spell or something. ‘Blast ‘em!’ we yelled as we ran. ‘Fireball ‘em! Get those little @#+$%*&!!’ ‘What, in these narrow corridors?’ he yelled back. ‘You want I should burn us all up instead of them?’ Our panicked flight suddenly took us to a dead-end corridor, where a giant air shaft dropped straight down into unspeakable darkness, far past Level Ten. Here we hastily pounded spikes into the floors and walls, flung ropes over the ledge, and climbed straight down into that unspeakable darkness, because anything we met down there was sure to be better than those kobolds. We escaped, met some huge flaming demons on Level Ten, and even managed to kill one after about an hour of combat and the lives of half the group. We felt pretty good - but the group leader could not be cheered up. ‘We still have to go out the way we came in,’ he said as he gloomily prepared to divide up the treasure. Tucker’s kobolds were the worst things we could imagine. They ate all our donkeys and took our treasure and did everything they could to make us miserable, but they had style and brains and tenacity and courage. We respected them and loved them, sort of, because they were never boring. If kobolds could do this to a group of PCs from 6th to 12th level, picture what a few orcs and some low-level NPCs could do to a 12th-16th level group, or a gang of mid-level NPCs and monsters to groups of up to 20th level. Then give it a try. Sometimes, it’s the little things - used well - that count.
One thing I'd like to add is that it can be really fun for players to occasionally have a super easy encounter at high levels. Let them feel epic as they just slaughter hordes of zombies. On the story progression, my players are level 16. They have gathered armies from different nations and are about to attack a vampire lord's castle. It should be fun.
Actually, the one to worry about is the one who has also read up on the Hero Vows as well. Conversely, a Villain would have to worry about a Hero who not only read the Hero Vows, but the Evil Overlord list too. Villain: I know every move you make. Hero: (Pulls out a gun and shoots.) Villain: Shield. (Bullet bounces off.) I knew you'd interrupt me by trying to shoot me before my monologue was over. Hero: That was just a distraction. How many folks do you see before you? Villain: Uh oh! Where's the rogue? (Turns around.) Hero: (Shoots again. Critical Hit!) I'm the Rogue. Villain: (Groaning in pain.) I thought that you were the Paladin! Hero: I multi-classed.
One funny thing about Tucker's Kobolds was that it was an example in Dragon Magazine on how to make the most of your monsters especially for high level characters
Level 10, my party set off to fight Warmatron Torhild atop a spiral city built into a volcano. This adventure kicked off some BIG character arcs for the entire party. Level 12, they went to Nifelheim to stop Fimbulvuntr. They fought Baba Yaga. On a rotating horizontal section of her spire. In the worst blizzard ever seen. Wind effects and slippery terrain and rotating tower threatening to send them falling to their doom. Super duper cold from the storm overpowering even Endure Elements. Baba flinging hexes and ice spells, slowing and debuffing them into last week. It was a slog to even make it to her, much less fight her. Level 14, they ventured into the deserts to the lost city of Amenti, to fight an undead god from a previous pantheon. And his Titan. Level 15, they fought Loki in the Planar Vaults below Angorok in Svartleheim. A bunch of the aforementioned character arcs managed to wrap up around here, while a few new arcs got started. Given the amount of collateral damage that was expected, the players did their best to minimize losses, and had to stick around for the funerals to see the results first hand. Level 16, they are currently in the forests of Alfheim, in a race against time to seek a major artifact that will greatly alter the course of a war before their enemies find it. In the future? It all gets bigger and better. I find in high level campaigns, you really need to have big setpiece encounters ready to go to keep them challenged. Your biggest tool to encounter design is the players character sheets themselves. I keep a cheatsheet of major stats from the PC's. I average the AC, Hit, Saves, effect DC's, etc. In a given encounter, I want the less powerful enemies to successfully hit that average 50%, and dangerous enemies to hit 75% or better. I apply the same math from the PC's perspective. To balance the damage out, average out the HP of the PC's. I aim for no enemy average damage attack to kill any player with that HP average in 4 or 5 hits or less. IE-If the player average is 50 HP, average damage should be around 10-12. This gives a lot of wiggle room for when enemies inflict a critical hit. Bosses and big dangerous things, I aim for a kill in 3 average damage hits VS average HP. Bosses and dangerous things can have attacks that break that formula as well, like powerful spells. Dangerous attackers who can kill quickly, there is usually a mitigating factor that players can take advantage of, like range or cover or disarming their powerful weapon or interrupting spell casting/concentration or counterspelling. For the number of attackers, I total up the players HP, and I compare the number of average damage attacks it would take to kill the entire party's HP. For weak enemies I use that number, if there is a boss or dangerous enemy present I reduce it by 20-50%. If a boss is potent enough that they could conceivably drop 1 or more players per round, they usually fight solo. I don't care if PC's can one-shot something if it's not a boss encounter. If it is a boss encounter, I mitigate high player damage output with battlefield control, some weak enemies, high damage output that makes them slow down to heal, supporters (people to heal the boss or mitigate damage for the boss in some way) or combo breaker type effects. A good villain bends the rules, occasionally breaks them, and sometimes makes rules of their own. But, all of this comes with a big old heaping spoon of salt. I'm running Pathfinder, not DnD 5E. My group likes to min/max characters and build for combat, my group likes tough tanky characters and glass cannon mega damage characters, with maybe 1 or 2 encounters per day before they just set up camp for the day. It's all about the sweet spot for your party.
Just the video I needed, since my party is lvl 13 and it's getting kinda hard to make something challenging nowadays, wish wotc could give dms some love lol
At Level 13 the players are famous, the NPC's should be going on quests to find the power take them on. They should get more back up, military strategy. The Players tactics are famous too. As are their friends. The Joker wasn't the best villain because he was high level.
There is definitely some quality advice in this video... But there's some real garbage too. You shouldn't negate your player's choices. If someone chooses a Paladin and that gives everyone better saves, _they deserve to save more often._ If the caster chooses fireball (especially spontaneous casters that only get a few spells known) then you had better not reduce the number of hordes. If the crossbow fighter is tripping flying enemies, don't artificially give Hover to fliers.
"the wizard scout the dungeon with arcane eye" Here Iam, my group in Rise of Tiamat had a warlock with an Imp who can turn invisible... they scout the entire dungeon and figure out the best route to reach the destination...
The big villains like a Lich or even some evil king would probably protect their most important places (office, treasury etc) against invisible creatures. They could use snakes who find their prey through body warmth or blind guards that only go after sound, you could even have vampires that smell blood and will kill anyone who doesn’t know a certain code gesture etc
@@Xelemich I wouldn’t worry about it just check in with your players whether they have fun or not and adjust accordingly. In the end as Long as everyone has fun you can change the module as much as you want, it’s up to you and you have to have fun too (you could also ask your player to not use it every time). So I guess do your thing and have fuuuuuuun 🤗
Mini rant in the middle of the video! Love it. When you started talking about the parent-child analogy, I had a mental picture of goblin minions yelling 'Stranger Danger" when the PCs try persuade them to get to the BBEG. All great points!!
A great way to use low level mobs in high level play is have a powerful creature sending dozens and dozens of kobolds/goblins etc at the party full well knowing they are going to be slaughtered. It can act as a moral element to combat because the mobs are more afraid of the high level monster than the party. It also has the effect of keeping party members distracted for a round while your more powerful monsters get into position.
The thing about CR being broken is partially why I hate the "I balanced the encounter for 4 level 8 PCs, and now that they leveled up it's ruined!" or something along those lines. That implies that the game is not only balanced, but perfectly balanced, even accounting for every variable. Which is just laughable. Even if it was, as you said, it's the DMs job to balance and customize the game for the players. P.S. 11:41 it is.
Regarding high-level CR, I recall a quote about the T-34 and Sherman tanks in World War 2: "Quantity has a quality of its own". So you could throw kobolds at your level 12 party, but you would throw a LOT more kobolds than when they were level 2. And give them terrain and/or preparation advantages
What a great video! I have been a DM for 40 years and I get so much good advice here. I would like to add to these tips with the following: The best way to gauge what will challenge your high level Player Characters is time and experience with those characters. By playing with them from level one to the higher oevels you see first hand what tricks, tactics and mannerisms they develope and you can tailor your game accordingly. This also includes character personalities. As you learn learn thier goals, hopes and dreams you can find rewards to tempt them with, as well as what tactics to use against them.
I like to throw in an easy fight as my players get more powerful. This helps to contrast how powerful they've become. Think about it: just because the players are level 14 doesn't mean that goblins ceased to exist and vanished from off the face of the earth. So, I will--OCCASSIONALLY--have them run across a tribe of goblins. Yeah, at level 2 (umpteen years ago) goblins were something of a challenge. There was real threat there. But now, the players can see visualized before them their bared power as they decimate the entire tribe in two rounds. Keep in mind that for many players, rpgs are about power fantasies--enacting their dreams of becoming a powerful warrior or wizard. If everything continues to feel difficult and grinding no matter how powerful they become, then the experience is ruined. More powerful monsters just need to be interspersed often enough that they never really know what to expect. With me, every time they open a door they have to ask themselves: will it be a clutch of gremlins? Or an ancient red dragon?
THIS. It allows to bring forward at least two very powerful motives that can be well played off. One, there is the power fantasy - "look how far have you come". An encounter that would be CRAZY hard and deadly (a whole TRIBE of goblins, whoa, that's a lot) gets swept down nearly instantly. Two, there's the force of habit and the power morality, all back to the famous Spider-man quote about power and responsibility. "Look what have you become through all the life of hardships.". That tribe of goblins was NOT a lethal threat to them. Was it really necessary to eradicate them all on spot? On this power level, it hardly passes as self-defence and self-preservation thing. Could you spare them? Could you solve the situation without eradicating a whole tribe? And would it make sense on all the levels, from the character ones to the geopolitical ones? When is ruthlessness needed, when is it valuable and when is it superfluous?
Challenging high level player characters is as easy as making very similar high level NPCs for them to fight. Players tend to think twice when they realize that the enemy is capable of doing very similar things back to them. I would also advise that creatures act according to their nature, culture and experience. An ooze will continue to eat/dissolve a fallen target with enzymes/acid without having to stop fighting. Animals that fight in packs or groups will tend to hit and fade, and pick off those that are alone. Flying monsters will not land unless they have too - making them some of the most dangerous opponents. Swimming monsters will tend to attack from below - like sharks, crocodiles, etc. Giants are possessed of a kind of strength that PCs simply cannot have when you consider how far they can throw boulders. A giant an simply pick up a PC in one hand and throw them straight up for the range of a boulder. Calculate that falling damage.... Or throw them into walls, trees, the water.... they will be dismissive for a reason. Dragons are possessive of more than just that stat block. They are massive flying creatures who are as physically strong as giants and smarter than a lot of wizards. Bombarding targets with boulders, uprooted trees, or chunks of ice is not beyond reason. Strafing with a breath weapon or setting forests alight is not beyond reason. Filling a castle with poison gas from the top down is not beyond reason. Doing so after punching a whole in the roof with a boulder is just the start. In six years, I have used all of one dragon on my players and it wrecked half a castle before they brought it down. A single chimera was nearly a TPK. Yes, I am aware of the spells and abilities of high level players. Consider that a being like a dragon, who has been alive for several hundred years, and has survived from egg to this on it's own, is also aware. That's how survival works. It will likely also have a network of spies and servants - from kobolds on up. They will be informing the dragon the entire time. Hags make for great villains too - a shapeshifting villain who can plant a Hag Eye in the right place is capable of absolute chaos. I've done so in one campaign and it lead to a great reveal around 7th level. Never shy away from homebrew monsters either. I ran an entire campaign around several homebrewed aberrations, and another campaign with three "Hunter" fiends who tracked the PCs (The Bound, Twisted Man and Scream Queen). Homebrew monsters and villains cannot be found in a resource, so even veteran players must be wary of the unknown. Even at high levels, they will tend to think twice when the target is an unknown quantity and has displayed powers unlike they have seen before.
Look If your players try the "your boss is expecting us" technique, you can always pull the "I expect you to dine" trope The bbeg IS expecting them And he loves to gloat Or he wants to meet the party face to face in order to get inside their heads
"These orcs--which are evil, by the way--" As opposed to Blurgthak, the town baker, who has done nothing wrong and really wants to know why he keeps getting jumped by low-level adventurers on his way back from the market. Also, the stranger danger rant was a joy to behold.
Thank you. Currently running a tier 4 and have been trying hard to make challenging encounters that don’t take an entire session. I appreciate your change up advice because I had to do something similar recently when my PCs were starting a boss fight with a souped up Auril on her home plane of pandemonium. Though she was insanely powerful, the start went badly for her as she was fighting alone. Got through 1 round before we had to call the session, and over the week break I ended up changing the upcoming lair action to her summoning 2 death knights to join her in battle. Seemed to help and players say they have fun.
Ineed some advice. I played years ag alot. I want to dm again small groups 3 to 4. Im still green on combat and spells and rules. I cant play alot with groups but groups want me to dm. Im creative and love the game. Should i attempt to dm ? How l9ng should i read before i start ? Should i play in groups to get basics? Shouldi use modules? I have created a campaign already 1 to 20th level with maps.. spending 40hrs on it. Need ur advice? Im soaking up alot online, Most of my group will be new players too
Btw i played 5 yrs 2.0 3,5.. i read most rules 9n 5e and pathfinder. But my cimbat rules are weak.. Like basics movement spells and all character abilities.
I'm just finishing up the heavily modified Tyranny of Dragons campaign I've been running for a couple years. Players are at level 20, currently defending Waterdeep, its Dragonward having been disabled, from an invasion force consisting of 10s of thousands of zombies, Red Wizards, cultists, Abishai, Spawn of Tiamat, Arkhan the Cruel and co., and literally every chromatic dragon within 400 miles that they haven't already killed (which, by Realms lore, includes quite a lot, including at least a dozen ancient dragons I've modified with Conner McCall's wonderful Book of Dragons for 5e) which are being summoned by an enhanced Orb of Dragonkind. They are in command of not only Waterdeep's normal defenses, but also the several armies they have personally raised and/or rallied to their cause, including hundreds of kobolds, werewolves, awakened farm animals, gladiators, eladrin, dragonborn, pirates, and metallic dragons (and maybe a tarrasque, should they get desperate enough to read that scroll). Halfway through this battle (likely this week) there will be roughly enough destruction in Tiamat's name for the cult to summon her into the world. Should my players do well enough in stopping that, they might get the chance to travel through that Gate to Avernus instead. Either way, they'll get the chance to slay a god -- and, knowing them, probably do it just fine.
Why doesn't D&D (and other RPGs) get in touch with individuals who have TH-cam channels like this who have been playing and DMing for 2 decades or more and ask "what's broke and how can we fix it?"? It would make sense, at least to me, that these companies reach out and ask for this kind of feedback and constructive criticism. I've only been playing for 5 years and am just now comfortable to try DMing myself, that's why I'm here. I love these videos. Please keep them coming.
Players get sword that does psychic damage. Suddenly surprised to be fighting constructs immune to psychic damage. I need to take this one to the discord channel. There’s so much to unpack in this video.
I agree with you! I have been DM for 26 years. I agree with you completely making alterations, changing things on the Fly, and all that stuff. Makes for good storytelling and entertaining your players. I do the same thing and all my players love it. It is not cheating it’s making a good story and making the game fun.
And this is exactly where I'm at. The group started at the FLGS with three people, boomed to 13 for awhile, then cut down to a cool 8 people that moved the game to my basement. We started in late 2016, played throughout 2017 and most of 2018 with a few hiccups along the way. I had some health issues, so we did Waterdeep (separate campaign), then I was doing better, then a player had personal issues, and we did Strahd until he came back, joined, and we came back to my big campaign. As I hadn't DMd regularly since the late 80s, and with some group drama in 2018, they leveled ENTIRELY too quickly from 5 to 8. It was a "stealth" Spelljammer campaign (much longer part of this story), and WAY earlier there was all this myth and legend about how to find "this place" where basically they'll be able to get away from where they're at. I said they should be able to get to space by like level 11 or 12ish, maybe a little later. They're level 12 right now. Lots of "plot threads" are out there that they'd have to clean up (including a Captain Planet-esque multi-part macguffin) before they can just yeet out for Toril and Faerun. I'm stalling BAD with the story. They've done points A, B, and C to clean things up, have been to D back and forth now, and I need to get them to F...but E has me blanking. Z at "end story" is another thing entirely. I just feel bad that I feel like the story is stalling for them...or feeling directionless. The "level 12" combat scenarios aren't helping. I'm going to have to do a LOT sooner than later to adjust things as the party completely cleaned the clock of two gith-ridden young red dragons, a number of neogi that landed right behind them, and even had the balls to almost TRY TO TAKE THE NEOGI SHIP. Part of me wants to give them a really great epic ending to this story, but part of me wants to just make sure it finishes to alleviate the stress.
I (and more importantly my players) are really enjoying your one shot - into the fey series of adventures. Good product. I highly recommend. Great Job.
You killed it. My PCs always end up crazy OP and I'm so glad for this advice. Thank you! And the thing abt the 4x deadly encounter thing made me feel so good haha cause that's my PCs too 😑
As a rule, if a player gets a shiny new ability that super changes the way things go (e.g. flight), here's what I try to do. 1 encounter that showcases the ability: fly up and fight those manticores in the air! 2 encounters that allow for the player to make use of the ability: a sniper on a rooftop who could normally be accessed by going in a building and using the stairs can instead be reached via flight, a nasty trap that a player could deal with can be flown over. 1 encounter that blocks the ability: you're underground and the ceilings are pretty low, not much good flight can do here, but you can still do everything else you already know how to do.
True sight is your friend against a party with a pact of the genie warlock with a pact of the chain imp (which can fly while invisible and reasonably open doors) who is a high enough level to take the whole party into their genie ring and order the imp to carry it to the boss room.
Running CoS and I know my players Strhad isn't getting much of a change just a tweak of his spells. Now he does have a few magical toys that I plan to have fun with but if they defeat him I am ready to give them to my players. They will need them when they hit lvl 20 and have a Shadow Tiamat to deal with.
I'm a new subscriber and fairly new to DMing. I've been playing homebrew as the modules seemed to be quite daunting. I've been trying to figure out exactly where I need to work on my game. And this video (among others of yours) has been so much more helpful than any others I've seen so far. I've rushed my players to higher levels and not started out small enough. I've taken a break for a while due to my daughters "terrible twos" phase and in the meantime I'm educating myself to improve my games for my players. Thank you for your immensely helpful videos and I cannot wait to put your advice to good use and get behind the screen again. Keep up the amazing work!
I've been playing in a D&D campaign for a few years now. We started at level one and are now at level 19. Our GM has informed us that he has story material already planned out all the way to level 30! He is confident we can go to level 40. We resolved the main quest (Ptolus) at level 14. Last adventure, my Mountain Dwarf Fighter (Brute) acquired The Axe of the Dwarf Lords off of a major Chaos demon.
Had a DM throw Tucker's Kobolds at us with all manner of traps, devices, and machines of mayhem. It was in an older version of D&D and it remains an event we still speak of fondly (well, more fondly than we did as they hailed down traps and damage upon us with maniacal laughter).
One thing to add, when you come up with a new ability to counter the players signature attack, don’t give it to everything, make them feel challenged not useless. Go I. The opposite direction sometimes. With the trip attack crossbow guy, maybe throw in what would be impossible for a regular party to beat at that level because there just to many dragons,but possible for them
I think it's fun to occasionally throw the types of monsters at pcs who have since leveled up, which would've been tough for them when they were lower level, to feel the power difference wiping the floor with them at higher levels. I actually forget to do this sometimes though, and make encounters challenging too often.
*Awesome video about a subject that really needs more support in the D&D community and Content .* *All your advice in this video is solid ( not all the solutions for each issue ) .* *But still all around good to great advice .* *Note : We really do need more Paragon ( 10 to 20 ) level support .* *As well as Epic ( 20 to 30 ) level content ( all kinds ) .* *~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* *At some point in the future .* *I'm most likey going to do a tier list for all the TH-cam D&D channels .* *Note : DM's lair , Dungeon Dudes , Web DM & Seth Shorkowsky ( and others. ) are high on the list .*
@@danielpayne1597 *Yes I'm aware of Taking 20 & XP to level 3 .* *An they are both good .* *But not in the same way and/or level as the ones i listed .* *XP to level 3 is more D&D entertainment .* *An taking 20 is more basic to mid level information + VTT gaming info .* *Note : just with D&D TH-camrs , I'm subscribed to close to a 100 of them .* *An have watched 1,000s of videos .* *There are easily over a half dozen basic types of D&D channel .*
For me following Tipps worked well: 1. Every Combat Encounter, has to advance the Plot. A Combat without purpose is boring. 2. Not every Combat Encounter has to be challengeing. Sometimes it feels good, to know that you (the player) is powerful.
I really like this perspective, I do remember at some points I´ve had to edit on the fly because of similar issues. As long as your players have fun there should be nothing wrong. The only event in which I´d argue you MUST prepare the material before a fight, is if said component of the fight is an ability, item or situation that would be available to players as an option (mostly because some players care a lot for the mechanics of their possible actions). Another tip I thought of with the last one you were mentioning (in regards to villains using spells such as revivify) is to make villains use magic items such as healing potions and scrolls as well.
Tier 4 is totally broken. In the climax of my recently ended camapign (the only one in almost 40 years that has actually got to 20th), the level 19 eldritch knight soloed Baphomet in less than 3 rounds. In the same battle, the wizard, who had been really looking forward to using Shapechange, was disappointed to realise they were more powerful as themselves than as an ancient red dragon. In fact, the only real threat to the PCs was their npc wizard ally who got Dominated by the cult leader and was casting Blight and Finger of Death at them. It doesn't help that high level combats also take hours to run (the one above took 1.5 5 hour sessions). In the next campaign I'm going to try to rectify it by going old skool and capping PC hit dice at 9 like 1st and 2nd ed. Othewise, the only way of solving it is having slooow level-ups and ending the campaign around 14.
I'll never forget the time my group killed the BBEG but didn't bother to do anything about his priesthood and they ended up resurrecting him and the PCs had to fight him again except he knew their tricks and was way more prepared. The look on their face when they heard his voice and laugh again followed by the immediate realization on their faces of their folly. Priceless.
Hi backroom Gaming here I've been a DM since I was 9 or 10 and am well into my 40s. From experience a level 16 to 17 group can still be threaten by a group of strigen and have a threat of dying. If there is enough the players can be over run, simple action economy. Yes that group of 4 to 6 players will win out, but the fight can be a challenge. Just as a FYI without adding anything but numbers to them. But great video so many of these rules are spot on, I commonly run 1 to 20 adventures and they can be fun and challenging, but if done right just as fun as lower level games.
Thanks for this breakdown. I've been DM'ing for about 20 years and it seems like I very rarely get to T3/T4 since most campaigns don't last that long due to typical DnD complications (scheduling, etc). Due to this, it seems like I'm stuck running T1/T2, which I'm way better doing (since I've done them over and over again), and have little experience playing or planning for the higher tier campaigns.
One of the things that help make combat encounters difficult at higher levels is making sure the enemies abilities synergize with each other, but not reliant on each other. This is the best way to "counter" PC's abilities because they too, are synergizing their abilities they got and making their previous abilities more optimized as they figure out better and better strategies
I wouldn't say:"Don't cheat." However, if you do it, try to uphold the consistency of the setting. And do it in a way that isn't last minute: like, telegraph it or give the players a warning that the boss'll do something cool on his next turn. I recommend Runehammer's D4 timers for that. They're a lot of fun to keep around and keep your players guessing!
I agree. Changing doors in half of the dungeon not explored yet is totally fine, as it is in no way cheating. The DM literally controls the entire multiverse (even in some lore, with Ao, the God of gods reporting to a figure of light or something like that) and they can do whatever they need or want to keep it fun for their players. However, a DM shouldn't change something already determined, such as putting a door where there wasnt one, trapping that arcane eye or invisible imp unfairly in two or three rooms.
WotC write these rules and suggestions, but then create no epic level modules themselves. It's like they're saying "Here all, it's super easy, we promise. It's so simple, in fact, that we can't be bothered to write the material." Sure, we have a great community which has been there to write, and help other's come up with, epic level stories. The problem is, it shouldn't HAVE TO come down to the community. If WotC would come out with just one level 15-20 module (sorry, I don't count DotMM) it could serve, at least, as a starting-off point. Anyway, thank YOU for taking the time to discuss this.
I'll still toss in large swarms against a Fireball wielder so they feel effective, but half the enemies in that battle are supposed to die in the first round, while the others are spread out & more powerful, and are my actual planned encounter.
One memorable high level fight was my friend who was a knight character covered in bulky heavy armor fighting a vampire on top of a roof of a house that was on FIRE
As a dm, I recommend testing fights with some basic calculations. Things like simulated fights or raw number fights to see how dangerous am encounter really is
I do that too but my most recent session I had a medium encounter prepared and my players tore through them by vortex warping the sharks onto shore where they suffocated.
I DM 4e. I've found high success in taking end game monsters but give them thr stats of suggested monsters at this level. It gives the players the means to survive the crazy abilities but so much can now happen, that combat becomes more RP than anything else. Players have to focus on using the environment and other creative ideas to get around what's happening. Because of this I typically start them at level 7 and rarely ever actually level.
My party’s level ten and I’m having a tough time making encounters challenging without going overboard. They literally took out a Glabrezu and a Nalfeshnee, simultaneously.
Remove death saves from your game and return to 2nd ed. -10 and yer dead. And if you get healed you're at 1 hp and you lose all spells and are as weak as a kitten. Fixes the whack a mole problem death saves cause.
This would actually be a good video for new old-school DMs using the Rules Cyclopedia or retro-clones with a similar all-in-one-book format. Someone learning to play with the old boxed sets got this implicitly from what was covered in each box -- that is less true if everything is together or else divided on in a non-level-based way.
19:53. Yes. High level PCs are unkillable. At level 14, I realized my Barbarian could literally step off a sixteen story tower, rage in mid-air, and do a superhero landing, taking negligible damage. And I went ahead and did it for effect. That was an awesome session. There’s a certain point where the PCs basically are comic book characters.
True but if isent ra after ut group the barbarian would be running loke a baby. Most level14s today are like level 28 when i played in 80s. But try to take ra on .... ac is 27... approx ..hps 700. No magic hurts him. He has powerful slaves.. he has powerful friends. Hecowns magical artifacts a boat that flies. His spellss level 9.. his rod and rays do 2 to 400 damage.. have ur dm put him on your party.. lololol Level 14s today are way powerful. So give them a tough match.. just idea and point... Level 14 monsters get creamed by levelt 14 groups i find and notice.. Have fun tell ur dm to add more powerful battles at ur characters..
@@joeharvey5556 yeah, but Ra is literally a god. The point is that by the time you're that high level, you're having tea with gods, not trying to kill them.
@@erikkennedy8725 yes but im hearing characters are too powerful..so monsters and the like must be used. I agree its a god but if ppl are walking through arch liches something is wrong. Either to much cheating or gameplay is not correct. I agree with u but u could modify and use a lesser god or ras son. Lol 5 characters at level 30.. 5e 15..could probably have fun. Just ideas .. When we played most cr monsters were anti magic so strong the party would be ripped apart. I feel dms still d9nt run hugh levels properly.. Eldrich blast wish etc are usueless against a dragon who easily could teleport away... comeback ... counterspell etc... Plus some high level monsters are immune to most basic magic. So wizards are out and hitpoints of over 450 would keep a party wailing for 4 hours not to memtion summoning etc etc.. no party should be able to walk through these monsters .. But what do i know i dont tons anymore ... I used to play alot ... I had so many low level dungeons and bad dms i quit...lol This game is fun.. hope u enjoy and make those cheaters powergamer start rolling stats in front of you. No players should have more than 1 18 up to level 12... All other rolls should be average,. There js way to much cheating ... I did a test roll for level 1 3 months ago and after 40 rolls i never had more than 4 characters with an 18... Maybe 17s... Avg roll was 5 9 14 16 12 16.. Hope u have fun. If ur dm is bad get another group Talk soon thanks for advice.
4 level 15s should be absolutely destroyed by a beholder. So thats why i commented. Cause these monsters are powerful.. so mechanics somewhere are flawed.. i will look into 8t to see why its so easy for parties. I will be honest.. matt mercer when he played critical role vecna made massive errors. Most of the spells they cast that series the liche would ha e laughed at. Maybe im wrong i will co ti ue to study. Maybe we need to talk to wozards for 6e to make new rules to keep it fun simple but hard. Talk soon
Great vid! dungeon master and the story are supreme. Regarding your comments at the 19:00 mark, didn’t Gygax himself say something like, “Roll lots of dice, often. Pay attention to them only occasionally.”
To scale up against player characters, give character levels to simple monsters. I’ve done it with the PCs fighting nothing more than goblins from level 1-20. Five goblins can wipe a 3rd level party by making one of the five a 1st level rogue. They run away after 1-2 rounds of combat, only to follow the PCs back to their camp. Their average stealth in 3e or Pathfinder 1st was +13 and most DMs don’t use that. Five goblins with three wolves can wipe a PC group of 5th level if one of the goblins is a 3rd level rogue. If you up that to five wolves, it can wipe a group of up to 7th level. This uses the trip attack of the wolf in the initial attack to seriously harm the PCs before the goblins run off to track them to attack while they recover. That’s the “one in five” rule. If one out of every five goblins has a level in some class, the PCs will have to think about their tactics. What I laid out above is just a scout party and a mounted scout party. As the PCs go up in levels, they face off against larger groups like the hunting party, the war band, the clan and the tribe. Each of those has a higher level leader, but still well below what the PCs are. Every time you move up a step, increase the number of goblins by a factor of five and increase the leader’s level by two above the four lower level leaders. For every four 3rd level rogues, there will be a fighter 2/rogue 3 leading them. The PC’s level determines how well they are known by their enemies too. The war chief of a goblin war band might come looking for them because of it to prove himself as a more capable leader than the clan chief or the tribe’s chief. And that war chief has five hunting parties of five scouting parties each under him. This can wipe a party of up to 15th level, if you use their strengths. One in five is either going to have sneak attack dice or spell casting abilities. I created the organization chart for goblins the way I did because they need that leader to keep them in line. Even in a group of five, one of them will be sneakier, more clever or more brutal than the rest. I ran an entire campaign that was just a war with a goblin tribe, nothing else.
Being somewhat experienced in high levels of play, my advice to people and DMs is this: Keep track of the save DC and to hit DC of the enemies you're using. If your party average AC is 18, and you're using enemies with a +12 to hit, meaning that there's a 70% chance the enemies will hit and only a 30% chance they miss, if those enemies hit hard, it is going to be a GRUELING encounter, the party will spend resources and will take hits. typically, if there is a 60% or more chance something will effect the party, not effect the enemy, or hit. You're getting towards the deadly zone. Once you learn to read your player's averages, be it AC, their + to attack, their damage output and their saving throws. Combats can become a lot easier to tweak. One final piece of advice, to make an enemy harder, it is always more fun to give it more HP, than more armour (unless its a removable obstacle, like an awesome shield, ioun stone or some other thing.) If you throw an enemy with an AC of 24 against a party who only has +8s to hit. The fight is going to feel grindy and unfair.
Fun fact - thanks to Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, one can use the Sidekick's section to sup up those 1/2 or lower cr monsters and npcs, and make them a threat dangerous enough to give a dragon reason to pause in surprise when a whole lot of town guards, scouts, bandits, lizardfolk, orcs, and other supposedly low-level threats show up when it attacks their town, only for this dragon to realize that these fellas, and their mounts, have been level grinding. Ancient Black Dragon: (Sees about a dozen foes, and their mounts) You're only cr 1/2 apiece you know. One breath attack, and you're all dead. Town Guard: Time to redefine that number. We're each Level 15, including the horses we rode in on. AB Dragon: (Does the calculations.) How? Orc: Sidekick training. We're almost as good as those Adventurers now. AB Dragon: What do the vampires have to say about this? Lizardfolk: They've started to stay home at night now. Especially since we now have these lovely Sun Blades and other magical weapons. AB Dragon: Um, I'm going to leave, for now. Town Guard: Wait until we hit Level 20! We'll be tougher then!
In my high level campaign the PCs killed a LT BBEG and his wife (the LT was a vampire the wife was a wizard) I knew ahead of time that the wife was going to have clone running so she'd pop back up (the party wizard even mentioned it when he got access to her spellbook). However the BBEG (their boss) is the high priest of the lord of undeath who's goal is to turn everything into undeath. So yeah right before lockdown I mentioned to the most perceptive party member that he caught a glimpse of the LT.
On players tricking minions into trusting them, my party in the Star Wars campaign I'm DMing has already done that twice 😂 First they told some B2s, "Quick, the intruders are heading to the engine room!" Sending the droids to no one in particular. Then, they tricked some droids into thinking some other droids had been reprogrammed. On the plus side, it's been fun so far
There's a fine line with combat encounters. It's true that mobs will be less effective against players with Fireball. But you still should 100% throw mobs at them so they can explode them. Still challenge them, but in fun ways.
As for the Technike of claiming to work for the Villian, my Curse of Strahd group actually has been able to get away with it because Strahd has forced them to work for him. At one point what I intendet to be a forshadowing of how strong Strahd is nearly led to a TPK when the players refused to back down. After all but two PC's where in negative hitpoints I made a cliff hanger and talked to the players. By the next session we had agreed to save the characters by having them bow to Strahd, some being turned into Werewolfs other Vampires and our Tiefling embracing his fiendish linage using the rules from the Grimmhollow Campaing guide. It made for a really interesting change in the game dynamic as Strahd ordered them to Bring Ireena to Castle Ravenloft. On the way they stoped the Druids of yesterhill from summoning winter splinter supposedly in the name of Strahd. It also allowed me to show them the consequences of their action as they backtracked and showed what happened because they left quests unfinished before. Finding Ireena and her borther imprisoned by the Burgermaster of Vallaki and Isaac or the Village of Barovia completly wiped out by a Zombie plague they could have stopped at two points in the game but moved on instead.
Our DM was doing this in game and was very obvious about it. We told him if he kept doing it, we'd simply go into another room to plan and the just surprise him. He didn't care for that idea.
The Greatest Letdown I've ever had during a session, is when the DM "cheated" and gave the Big Bad Special Abilities that didn't fit The World (one-shotted a PC [with prior consent], without a roll, and Plane Shifted away the same round). So if you're going to "cheat" to make an encounter harder mid-session... make sure to do it in a "balanced" manner...
My party of four level 10 boyos just beat a pit fiend. It was rough, but they made it out without any player deaths due to good rotation and battlefield control. APL; 10 CR; 21. And I did use the summon abilities on top of already having the "arena" ringed with crossbow laden guards. On the flip side I almost tpk'd a party of five level 1's with three orks because they only had one ranged weapon among them and decided to openly engage the orks at 300+ feet. They only lived because the orks ran out of javelins and got thoroughly bloodied before melee ensued. Honestly, really solid level 1 roleplay.
I had this undead boss that I made, 16 AC, 40 hp, zombie ability when they drop to 0hp, shriek that would make players frightend and with one hit he could do 12 dmg on average for my lvl 2 party. They were melting him so fast that on a fly i gave him regenerative ability, 2 legendary actions, multiattack and undead ranger as ally. The group was genuanly terrified of him and when they killed him, they were so happy that I didnt regret anything about buffs. So imo it is great for a general game to make things harder for the sake of fun.
If you wish to increase the challenge rate of any fight Consider giving your bad guys items The bad guys should be able to throw nets, drop caltrops and so on. You can also do the same thing for the boss give them a really cool epic artifact or item. Consider doing combo attacks Such as Entangling the party Or web or whatever else Then follow up With something like a breath attack They have disadvantage on this save Not once did I take away from any players Ability They still do what they do but the bad guys and the encounters Are getting more dangerous. These are the things I consider When cranking up the Encounters.
I've told some of my players, that as a DM, I will metagame (but not as a player). Those players complained, and I explained it to them that I do it in order to keep the game challenging (not impossible!) because I do want anyone (players and myself) to be bored.
I've had more than one DM before say stuff like "anything above level 5 is strictly for NPCs" and "D&D isn't designed for high level characters, everyone knows that, even the creators of the game" meanwhile the creators have come out with epic level stuff like "level 21 and higher for PC's" and a whole system where you play as gods.
"if pcs can come back from the dead, so can villains." Did this in my current campaign. The players are fighting the drow, and at the head of it all is their matron mother, essentially a 20th level cleric. My players have a nasty habit of not dealing with the bodies of people they kill (not that that would matter much to a 20th level cleric anyway, but I digress), so she has brought back multiple lesser villains that now the party has to fight all in the final dungeon. When they first encountered just ONE of the revived enemies, they flat out dissected her to make sure her body was unusable. They even realized that once they kill the matron mother herself, they would need to do something with her soul, otherwise another cleric would be able to just bring her back with high level magic. So they essentially decided to use a permanent Variant of the soul cage spell, with the power of a warlock patron, and the sacrifice of the warlocks freedom essentially.
I am a DM for 4 (now) level 5 players. When they were level 2 and 3, they had very high AC's of 17 and 18. I made the encounters deadly and they still won 😅
Is it reasonable to keep a number of actions and reactions detached from stat blocks on the go? They'd be tech options to add to major foes in order to have improptu adjustments available without taking up much table time. Stalling on a response will cue your players in on spontaneous adjustments. Anyways, I think the portions outside of combat are the most neglected for high-level play. PCs can fly, teleport, communicate over long distances etc. and yet most locales are comfortably accessible via foot travel, often leading to PCs greatly outmaneuvering foes. It's entirely reasonable to have heavy weather and even supernatural weather be a thing, fortresses floating in the sky or any number of exotic locales, but the issue is martial classes - the ones that get absolutely nothing to improve besides more HP and Damage and a paltry amount of skill bonuses.
14:41 I made a 3.5e illusion spell that implanted vague false memories to corroborate my lies and used it to sneak into a czar's palace. That's different than just bluffing right?
A large part of the game relies on the player's trusting the DM. I think alterations on the fly can be made - and sometimes are necessary - but they should definitely be kept MINIMAL because you risk undermining that relationship which is very important. In the doors example, I think you could add doors throughout, but you shouldn't add many. You should break the areas down into large sections with doors separating them. Let them see several rooms per section.
Maybe I'm cheesing my game, but I give flying creatures (enemy or pc) the chance to right themselves midair when hit with a trip attack. The height from the ground determines the difficult, closer to the ground is harder due to the lack of space you have to right yourself. You'll lose altitude, but you might not hit the ground.
Considering the point of "nerfing the characters" Taking 20 did a great video about it where he said how he makes the challenges way too hard but doesn't takle the weaknesses but the strenghts of the PCs. Like: your wizard can deal with hordes of Goblins. But what about 200 of them? That way you can still feel accomplishment but it is still challenging because of the scope of the battle. It feels awesome to kill whole armies and feels appropriate for the players powerlevel instead of going full Elder Scrolls "the crabs are level 50 now and got twice as big".
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Now here is a topic that needs more exploring among the d&d content creation community.
Fully agreed
Ya wizards is lazy. They need to do alot to make game more fun. And free cheap etc. This game could ve really advamced. Combat styles.. helping dms make fun against power players etc...
I referring to wizards of coast ..lol
I have a book for high level campaigns. It is a game changer but only for high level characters.
@@myrtislockett7792 What is it called?
As a DM, use the "fog of war" and adjust dynamically. In a battle, never have a single big monster. Rather, first have smaller monsters. As the players defeat the smaller monsters, more waves of smaller monsters can appear - hold them back behind the fog of war, so the players don't know they are there. In fact, they are in a quantum state - they are both there and not there at the same time, and YOU decide if / when / how many to bring into battle as you dynamically assess how the party is doing.
As the players are fighting the big-bad, do the same thing: Reinforcements arrive during the battle, the timing and count of which is determined dynamically by you.
Be careful once you actually place monsters on the board: Once players see a monster, the monster should be played appropriately, don't break the immersion.
Don't plan battles as something determined statically ahead of time. Always have someplace that more opponents can come from, so the players can be surprised. Your dungeons should have multiple paths, so opponents can plausibly circle back around behind the players and setup ambushes. The room where the big-bad is should always have more rooms beyond it where reinforcements could be camping. Dungeons should have multiple entrances, some of which could be discovered by players ahead of time, but others which are probably so well hidden that they can only be discovered from inside the dungeon - that gives you more options for how opponents move around.
I personally do redesign portions of dungeons from week to week, in the areas where players haven't explored yet. One week the players messed up and let the kobolds (hah!) know where they were and then the players camped in the dungeon. The kobolds proceeded to sneak around during the night and to collapse the entrances to the dungeon to trap the players, and during the week-to-week period I redesigned the dungeon they hadn't explored yet to give them a way to get out even after the collapse.
“The goal is to roleplay good villains, not perfect and all powerful villains”
Strahd would like to have a word
Strahd is fairly weak all told. He's also very flawed as a personality.
So would Tiamat...
BiTD: I told my players that Strahd has an Intelligence & Wisdom of 18 or higher. He's smarter then I am & I'm not gonna hold back playing him that way. That got their attention.
Acererak seconds this
Shadversity: Yes, but what about Dragons?
DMLair: Yes, but what about Kobolds?
I like Shad as well.
Shadiversity: Very Interesting.
kobolds are no challenge for MACHICOLATIONS!!!
@@stevevondoom4140 Ah, but kobolds can tunnel.
Why not both? (Just wrote an adventure for 13-15th with them and giants)
@@DreadPyriteBob Shad's a TH-camr who happens to be a Medieval/Fantasy enthusiast. He likes to look at Fantasy tropes and see how they could be applied in a realistic setting. Case in point, fairies aren't armed with sewing needle-sized swords - no, because, due to the Square Cube Law, those fairies would carry swords that are the size of letter openers like 6 inches long compared to the average 3 inch tall fairy, either for stabbing folks in the eyes, or something like a fixed straight razor blade to make surgical cuts to vital areas that aren't well armored.
Of course, the Sidekick rules can make kobolds, and other 1/2 cr or lower monsters, NPCs and animals a potent threat for higher leveled parties.
Oh no! Gary is being held hostage! Time for a vid on how to run a rogueless hiest/jailbreak scenario.
Yes, i want more Gary
Tucker's Kobolds were normal Kobolds, and that made them all the worse
Explain how Tucker did that please.
@@aralornwolf3140 if I recall the story correctly, tucker is a war veteran, and he played the kobolds as strategic geniuses. They designed devious and deadly traps to thwart the pcs. I don't know the whole story, but basically he used tons of traps and his expansive military knowledge to create a terrifying house of horrors for the players.
@@aralornwolf3140 It was a different game in a different time, where spells had more math involved in them, and monsters had skill and feat budgets to work with. Tucker's Kobolds had small tunnels, so that spells like fireball would have their concussive blast be channeled to hit the party too. Lightning bolt would bounce between walls, frying the kobolds on the way out, the way back, then your party until it bounces off the wall behind you and hits you again.
The kobolds took up formations with twin shield users in front to provide cover for the crossbow sharpshooters behind them. The kobolds would engage the party at range, fire off a volley and flee. Pursuit would lead the party into some horrible trap with absolute certainty, which the kobolds themselves would avoid by taking small hidden side passages that are sized for small creatures. Fleeing the kobolds had a high (but not complete) chance of bringing the party into a room doused with oil, where portcullis slam shut over the doors and burning debris fall from the ceiling.
Basically, use the most viscous and devious part of your brain to think up the most effective traps to kill intruders. Use your head and mastery of the rules to justify giving the kobolds every chance to whittle down the player's resources while exposing themselves to the least risk of harm.
@@GuardianTactician That sounds like a Monster Hunter video game except it's the players that are the Big Monsters.
@@aralornwolf3140 Tucker's Kobolds, Dragon Magazine issue 127 by Roger E. Moore - November 1987
We get letters on occasion asking for advice on creating high-level AD&D® game adventures, and Tucker’s kobolds seem to fit the bill.
Many high-level characters have little to do because they’re not challenged. They yawn at tarrasques and must be forcibly kept awake when a lich appears. The DMs involved don’t know what to do, so they stop dealing with the problem and the characters go into Character Limbo. Getting to high level is hard, but doing anything once you get there is worse.
One of the key problems in adventure design lies in creating opponents who can challenge powerful characters. Singular monsters like tarrasques and liches are easy to gang up on; the party can concentrate its firepower on the target until the target falls down dead and wiggles its little feet in the air. Designing monsters more powerful than a tarrasque is self-defeating; if the group kills your super-monster, what will you do next - send in its mother? That didn’t work on Beowulf, and it probably won’t work here.
Worse yet, singular supermonsters rarely have to think. They just use their trusty, predictable claw/claw/bite. This shouldn’t be the measure of a campaign. These games fall apart because there’s no challenge to them, no mental stimulation - no danger.
In all the games that I’ve seen, the worst, most horrible, most awful beyond- comparison opponents ever seen were often weaker than the characters that fought them. They were simply well-armed and intelligent beings who were played by the DM to be utterly ruthless and clever. Tucker’s kobolds were like that.
Tucker ran an incredibly dangerous dungeon in the days I was stationed at Ft. Bragg, N.C. This dungeon had corridors that changed all of your donkeys into huge flaming demons or dropped the whole party into acid baths, but the demons were wienies compared to the kobolds on Level One. These kobolds were just regular kobolds, with 1-4 hp and all that, but they were mean. When I say they were mean, I mean they were bad, Jim. They graduated magna cum laude from the Sauron Institute for the Criminally Vicious.
When I joined the gaming group, some of the PCs had already met Tucker’s kobolds, and they were not eager to repeat the experience. The party leader went over the penciled map of the dungeon and tried to find ways to avoid the little critters, but it was not possible. The group resigned itself to making a run for it through Level One to get to the elevators, where we could go down to Level Ten and fight ‘okay’ monsters like huge flaming demons.
It didn’t work. The kobolds caught us about 60’ into the dungeon and locked the door behind us and barred it. Then they set the corridor on fire, while we were still in it.
‘NOOOOOO!!!’ screamed the party leader. ‘It’s THEM! Run!!!’
Thus encouraged, our party scrambled down a side passage, only to be ambushed by more kobolds firing with light crossbows through murder holes in the walls and ceilings. Kobolds with metal armor and shields flung Molotov cocktails at us from the other sides of huge piles of flaming debris, which other kobolds pushed ahead of their formation using long metal poles like broomsticks. There was no mistake about it. These kobolds were bad.
We turned to our group leader for advice.
‘AAAAAAGH!!!’ he cried, hands clasped over his face to shut out the tactical situation.
We abandoned most of our carried items and donkeys to speed our flight toward the elevators, but we were cut off by kobold snipers who could split-move and fire, ducking back behind stones and corners after launching steel-tipped bolts and arrows, javelins, hand axes, and more flaming oil bottles. We ran into an unexplored section of Level One, taking damage all the time. It was then we discovered that these kobolds had honeycombed the first level with small tunnels to speed their movements. Kobold commandos were everywhere. All of our hirelings died. Most of our henchmen followed. We were next.
I recall we had a 12th-level magic user with us, and we asked him to throw a spell or something. ‘Blast ‘em!’ we yelled as we ran. ‘Fireball ‘em! Get those little @#+$%*&!!’
‘What, in these narrow corridors?’ he yelled back. ‘You want I should burn us all up instead of them?’
Our panicked flight suddenly took us to a dead-end corridor, where a giant air shaft dropped straight down into unspeakable darkness, far past Level Ten. Here we hastily pounded spikes into the floors and walls, flung ropes over the ledge, and climbed straight down into that unspeakable darkness, because anything we met down there was sure to be better than those kobolds.
We escaped, met some huge flaming demons on Level Ten, and even managed to kill one after about an hour of combat and the lives of half the group. We felt pretty good - but the group leader could not be cheered up.
‘We still have to go out the way we came in,’ he said as he gloomily prepared to divide up the treasure.
Tucker’s kobolds were the worst things we could imagine. They ate all our donkeys and took our treasure and did everything they could to make us miserable, but they had style and brains and tenacity and courage. We respected them and loved them, sort of, because they were never boring. If kobolds could do this to a group of PCs from 6th to 12th level, picture what a few orcs and some low-level NPCs could do to a 12th-16th level group, or a gang of mid-level NPCs and monsters to groups of up to 20th level. Then give it a try. Sometimes, it’s the little things - used well - that count.
One thing I'd like to add is that it can be really fun for players to occasionally have a super easy encounter at high levels. Let them feel epic as they just slaughter hordes of zombies.
On the story progression, my players are level 16. They have gathered armies from different nations and are about to attack a vampire lord's castle. It should be fun.
Gary the Intern was the rogue the WHOLE TIME!!!!!! I would have NEVER seen that coming (as I say in my usual sarcastic tone)
i'd hate to be the hero who has to fight that one villain who memorized the entire evil overlord list.
Lol man it’s been a looong time since I heard today that legendary tome
@@chadsmith8966 Yes, the sister tome to the Book of Vile Darkness.
Actually, the one to worry about is the one who has also read up on the Hero Vows as well. Conversely, a Villain would have to worry about a Hero who not only read the Hero Vows, but the Evil Overlord list too.
Villain: I know every move you make.
Hero: (Pulls out a gun and shoots.)
Villain: Shield. (Bullet bounces off.) I knew you'd interrupt me by trying to shoot me before my monologue was over.
Hero: That was just a distraction. How many folks do you see before you?
Villain: Uh oh! Where's the rogue? (Turns around.)
Hero: (Shoots again. Critical Hit!) I'm the Rogue.
Villain: (Groaning in pain.) I thought that you were the Paladin!
Hero: I multi-classed.
One funny thing about Tucker's Kobolds was that it was an example in Dragon Magazine on how to make the most of your monsters especially for high level characters
Level 10, my party set off to fight Warmatron Torhild atop a spiral city built into a volcano. This adventure kicked off some BIG character arcs for the entire party.
Level 12, they went to Nifelheim to stop Fimbulvuntr. They fought Baba Yaga. On a rotating horizontal section of her spire. In the worst blizzard ever seen. Wind effects and slippery terrain and rotating tower threatening to send them falling to their doom. Super duper cold from the storm overpowering even Endure Elements. Baba flinging hexes and ice spells, slowing and debuffing them into last week. It was a slog to even make it to her, much less fight her.
Level 14, they ventured into the deserts to the lost city of Amenti, to fight an undead god from a previous pantheon. And his Titan.
Level 15, they fought Loki in the Planar Vaults below Angorok in Svartleheim. A bunch of the aforementioned character arcs managed to wrap up around here, while a few new arcs got started. Given the amount of collateral damage that was expected, the players did their best to minimize losses, and had to stick around for the funerals to see the results first hand.
Level 16, they are currently in the forests of Alfheim, in a race against time to seek a major artifact that will greatly alter the course of a war before their enemies find it.
In the future? It all gets bigger and better.
I find in high level campaigns, you really need to have big setpiece encounters ready to go to keep them challenged. Your biggest tool to encounter design is the players character sheets themselves.
I keep a cheatsheet of major stats from the PC's. I average the AC, Hit, Saves, effect DC's, etc. In a given encounter, I want the less powerful enemies to successfully hit that average 50%, and dangerous enemies to hit 75% or better. I apply the same math from the PC's perspective. To balance the damage out, average out the HP of the PC's. I aim for no enemy average damage attack to kill any player with that HP average in 4 or 5 hits or less. IE-If the player average is 50 HP, average damage should be around 10-12.
This gives a lot of wiggle room for when enemies inflict a critical hit.
Bosses and big dangerous things, I aim for a kill in 3 average damage hits VS average HP. Bosses and dangerous things can have attacks that break that formula as well, like powerful spells. Dangerous attackers who can kill quickly, there is usually a mitigating factor that players can take advantage of, like range or cover or disarming their powerful weapon or interrupting spell casting/concentration or counterspelling.
For the number of attackers, I total up the players HP, and I compare the number of average damage attacks it would take to kill the entire party's HP. For weak enemies I use that number, if there is a boss or dangerous enemy present I reduce it by 20-50%. If a boss is potent enough that they could conceivably drop 1 or more players per round, they usually fight solo.
I don't care if PC's can one-shot something if it's not a boss encounter. If it is a boss encounter, I mitigate high player damage output with battlefield control, some weak enemies, high damage output that makes them slow down to heal, supporters (people to heal the boss or mitigate damage for the boss in some way) or combo breaker type effects.
A good villain bends the rules, occasionally breaks them, and sometimes makes rules of their own.
But, all of this comes with a big old heaping spoon of salt. I'm running Pathfinder, not DnD 5E. My group likes to min/max characters and build for combat, my group likes tough tanky characters and glass cannon mega damage characters, with maybe 1 or 2 encounters per day before they just set up camp for the day. It's all about the sweet spot for your party.
I'm so early traps are not even prepared yet
Just the video I needed, since my party is lvl 13 and it's getting kinda hard to make something challenging nowadays, wish wotc could give dms some love lol
Hah. Hahahahha This is hilariously accurate.
At Level 13 the players are famous, the NPC's should be going on quests to find the power take them on. They should get more back up, military strategy. The Players tactics are famous too. As are their friends.
The Joker wasn't the best villain because he was high level.
This was funnier when you said LVL 3. .-.
@@diversezebra6754 Ok, that is kinda funny.
There is definitely some quality advice in this video... But there's some real garbage too.
You shouldn't negate your player's choices.
If someone chooses a Paladin and that gives everyone better saves, _they deserve to save more often._
If the caster chooses fireball (especially spontaneous casters that only get a few spells known) then you had better not reduce the number of hordes.
If the crossbow fighter is tripping flying enemies, don't artificially give Hover to fliers.
"the wizard scout the dungeon with arcane eye"
Here Iam, my group in Rise of Tiamat had a warlock with an Imp who can turn invisible...
they scout the entire dungeon and figure out the best route to reach the destination...
I put an anti-magic field in the area where the dungeon boss is. This keeps that pesky Arcane eye in check.
The big villains like a Lich or even some evil king would probably protect their most important places (office, treasury etc) against invisible creatures. They could use snakes who find their prey through body warmth or blind guards that only go after sound, you could even have vampires that smell blood and will kill anyone who doesn’t know a certain code gesture etc
@@quastor749 you right but it was a campaign module i felt that if i modified to challenge my players it was like cheating ç_ç
@@spoonyluv19 I imagine you mean a anti-magic barrier? Because a boss fight with no magic sounds really... Specific
@@Xelemich I wouldn’t worry about it just check in with your players whether they have fun or not and adjust accordingly. In the end as Long as everyone has fun you can change the module as much as you want, it’s up to you and you have to have fun too (you could also ask your player to not use it every time). So I guess do your thing and have fuuuuuuun 🤗
Mini rant in the middle of the video! Love it. When you started talking about the parent-child analogy, I had a mental picture of goblin minions yelling 'Stranger Danger" when the PCs try persuade them to get to the BBEG. All great points!!
A great way to use low level mobs in high level play is have a powerful creature sending dozens and dozens of kobolds/goblins etc at the party full well knowing they are going to be slaughtered. It can act as a moral element to combat because the mobs are more afraid of the high level monster than the party. It also has the effect of keeping party members distracted for a round while your more powerful monsters get into position.
The thing about CR being broken is partially why I hate the "I balanced the encounter for 4 level 8 PCs, and now that they leveled up it's ruined!" or something along those lines. That implies that the game is not only balanced, but perfectly balanced, even accounting for every variable. Which is just laughable. Even if it was, as you said, it's the DMs job to balance and customize the game for the players.
P.S. 11:41 it is.
It's Elementary Alchemy:
Take CR & combine it with LEVEL then you get:
_Every child gets a precipitation trophy_
OMG, it sells so many books for WoTC.
Regarding high-level CR, I recall a quote about the T-34 and Sherman tanks in World War 2: "Quantity has a quality of its own". So you could throw kobolds at your level 12 party, but you would throw a LOT more kobolds than when they were level 2. And give them terrain and/or preparation advantages
What a great video! I have been a DM for 40 years and I get so much good advice here.
I would like to add to these tips with the following:
The best way to gauge what will challenge your high level Player Characters is time and experience with those characters. By playing with them from level one to the higher oevels you see first hand what tricks, tactics and mannerisms they develope and you can tailor your game accordingly. This also includes character personalities. As you learn learn thier goals, hopes and dreams you can find rewards to tempt them with, as well as what tactics to use against them.
I like to throw in an easy fight as my players get more powerful. This helps to contrast how powerful they've become. Think about it: just because the players are level 14 doesn't mean that goblins ceased to exist and vanished from off the face of the earth.
So, I will--OCCASSIONALLY--have them run across a tribe of goblins. Yeah, at level 2 (umpteen years ago) goblins were something of a challenge. There was real threat there. But now, the players can see visualized before them their bared power as they decimate the entire tribe in two rounds.
Keep in mind that for many players, rpgs are about power fantasies--enacting their dreams of becoming a powerful warrior or wizard. If everything continues to feel difficult and grinding no matter how powerful they become, then the experience is ruined. More powerful monsters just need to be interspersed often enough that they never really know what to expect. With me, every time they open a door they have to ask themselves: will it be a clutch of gremlins? Or an ancient red dragon?
THIS. It allows to bring forward at least two very powerful motives that can be well played off.
One, there is the power fantasy - "look how far have you come". An encounter that would be CRAZY hard and deadly (a whole TRIBE of goblins, whoa, that's a lot) gets swept down nearly instantly.
Two, there's the force of habit and the power morality, all back to the famous Spider-man quote about power and responsibility. "Look what have you become through all the life of hardships.". That tribe of goblins was NOT a lethal threat to them. Was it really necessary to eradicate them all on spot? On this power level, it hardly passes as self-defence and self-preservation thing. Could you spare them? Could you solve the situation without eradicating a whole tribe? And would it make sense on all the levels, from the character ones to the geopolitical ones? When is ruthlessness needed, when is it valuable and when is it superfluous?
Yes I’ve heard the CR is broken at higher levels.
Good video
Not only at higher levels...
There are CR 3 Monster who can wipe a level 5 party with ease... CR is a joke^^
I’ve heard it’s broken at beginner levels.
I’ve heard it’s broken at 20 years ago.
Challenging high level player characters is as easy as making very similar high level NPCs for them to fight. Players tend to think twice when they realize that the enemy is capable of doing very similar things back to them. I would also advise that creatures act according to their nature, culture and experience. An ooze will continue to eat/dissolve a fallen target with enzymes/acid without having to stop fighting. Animals that fight in packs or groups will tend to hit and fade, and pick off those that are alone. Flying monsters will not land unless they have too - making them some of the most dangerous opponents. Swimming monsters will tend to attack from below - like sharks, crocodiles, etc. Giants are possessed of a kind of strength that PCs simply cannot have when you consider how far they can throw boulders. A giant an simply pick up a PC in one hand and throw them straight up for the range of a boulder. Calculate that falling damage.... Or throw them into walls, trees, the water.... they will be dismissive for a reason.
Dragons are possessive of more than just that stat block. They are massive flying creatures who are as physically strong as giants and smarter than a lot of wizards. Bombarding targets with boulders, uprooted trees, or chunks of ice is not beyond reason. Strafing with a breath weapon or setting forests alight is not beyond reason. Filling a castle with poison gas from the top down is not beyond reason. Doing so after punching a whole in the roof with a boulder is just the start. In six years, I have used all of one dragon on my players and it wrecked half a castle before they brought it down. A single chimera was nearly a TPK.
Yes, I am aware of the spells and abilities of high level players. Consider that a being like a dragon, who has been alive for several hundred years, and has survived from egg to this on it's own, is also aware. That's how survival works. It will likely also have a network of spies and servants - from kobolds on up. They will be informing the dragon the entire time.
Hags make for great villains too - a shapeshifting villain who can plant a Hag Eye in the right place is capable of absolute chaos. I've done so in one campaign and it lead to a great reveal around 7th level.
Never shy away from homebrew monsters either. I ran an entire campaign around several homebrewed aberrations, and another campaign with three "Hunter" fiends who tracked the PCs (The Bound, Twisted Man and Scream Queen). Homebrew monsters and villains cannot be found in a resource, so even veteran players must be wary of the unknown. Even at high levels, they will tend to think twice when the target is an unknown quantity and has displayed powers unlike they have seen before.
Look
If your players try the "your boss is expecting us" technique, you can always pull the "I expect you to dine" trope
The bbeg IS expecting them
And he loves to gloat
Or he wants to meet the party face to face in order to get inside their heads
"These orcs--which are evil, by the way--"
As opposed to Blurgthak, the town baker, who has done nothing wrong and really wants to know why he keeps getting jumped by low-level adventurers on his way back from the market.
Also, the stranger danger rant was a joy to behold.
27 seconds in, I’m already thinking “Kobolds? You’re so screwed.” Anyone remember Dragon Mountain?
That's funny. I just pulled it out the other day from the attic. It's so....old.
Thank you. Currently running a tier 4 and have been trying hard to make challenging encounters that don’t take an entire session. I appreciate your change up advice because I had to do something similar recently when my PCs were starting a boss fight with a souped up Auril on her home plane of pandemonium. Though she was insanely powerful, the start went badly for her as she was fighting alone. Got through 1 round before we had to call the session, and over the week break I ended up changing the upcoming lair action to her summoning 2 death knights to join her in battle. Seemed to help and players say they have fun.
Ineed some advice. I played years ag alot. I want to dm again small groups 3 to 4. Im still green on combat and spells and rules. I cant play alot with groups but groups want me to dm. Im creative and love the game.
Should i attempt to dm ?
How l9ng should i read before i start ?
Should i play in groups to get basics?
Shouldi use modules?
I have created a campaign already 1 to 20th level with maps.. spending 40hrs on it.
Need ur advice?
Im soaking up alot online,
Most of my group will be new players too
Btw i played 5 yrs 2.0 3,5.. i read most rules 9n 5e and pathfinder. But my cimbat rules are weak..
Like basics movement spells and all character abilities.
I'm just finishing up the heavily modified Tyranny of Dragons campaign I've been running for a couple years. Players are at level 20, currently defending Waterdeep, its Dragonward having been disabled, from an invasion force consisting of 10s of thousands of zombies, Red Wizards, cultists, Abishai, Spawn of Tiamat, Arkhan the Cruel and co., and literally every chromatic dragon within 400 miles that they haven't already killed (which, by Realms lore, includes quite a lot, including at least a dozen ancient dragons I've modified with Conner McCall's wonderful Book of Dragons for 5e) which are being summoned by an enhanced Orb of Dragonkind. They are in command of not only Waterdeep's normal defenses, but also the several armies they have personally raised and/or rallied to their cause, including hundreds of kobolds, werewolves, awakened farm animals, gladiators, eladrin, dragonborn, pirates, and metallic dragons (and maybe a tarrasque, should they get desperate enough to read that scroll).
Halfway through this battle (likely this week) there will be roughly enough destruction in Tiamat's name for the cult to summon her into the world. Should my players do well enough in stopping that, they might get the chance to travel through that Gate to Avernus instead. Either way, they'll get the chance to slay a god -- and, knowing them, probably do it just fine.
Why doesn't D&D (and other RPGs) get in touch with individuals who have TH-cam channels like this who have been playing and DMing for 2 decades or more and ask "what's broke and how can we fix it?"? It would make sense, at least to me, that these companies reach out and ask for this kind of feedback and constructive criticism. I've only been playing for 5 years and am just now comfortable to try DMing myself, that's why I'm here. I love these videos. Please keep them coming.
I started preparing to write a comment. Then you mentioned a middle ground as ideal to the crafting of encounters. You win this one, sir.
Players get sword that does psychic damage. Suddenly surprised to be fighting constructs immune to psychic damage.
I need to take this one to the discord channel. There’s so much to unpack in this video.
I still remember that one time he said "these skits have no continuity"
I agree with you! I have been DM for 26 years. I agree with you completely making alterations, changing things on the Fly, and all that stuff. Makes for good storytelling and entertaining your players. I do the same thing and all my players love it. It is not cheating it’s making a good story and making the game fun.
And this is exactly where I'm at.
The group started at the FLGS with three people, boomed to 13 for awhile, then cut down to a cool 8 people that moved the game to my basement. We started in late 2016, played throughout 2017 and most of 2018 with a few hiccups along the way. I had some health issues, so we did Waterdeep (separate campaign), then I was doing better, then a player had personal issues, and we did Strahd until he came back, joined, and we came back to my big campaign.
As I hadn't DMd regularly since the late 80s, and with some group drama in 2018, they leveled ENTIRELY too quickly from 5 to 8. It was a "stealth" Spelljammer campaign (much longer part of this story), and WAY earlier there was all this myth and legend about how to find "this place" where basically they'll be able to get away from where they're at. I said they should be able to get to space by like level 11 or 12ish, maybe a little later.
They're level 12 right now.
Lots of "plot threads" are out there that they'd have to clean up (including a Captain Planet-esque multi-part macguffin) before they can just yeet out for Toril and Faerun. I'm stalling BAD with the story. They've done points A, B, and C to clean things up, have been to D back and forth now, and I need to get them to F...but E has me blanking. Z at "end story" is another thing entirely. I just feel bad that I feel like the story is stalling for them...or feeling directionless.
The "level 12" combat scenarios aren't helping. I'm going to have to do a LOT sooner than later to adjust things as the party completely cleaned the clock of two gith-ridden young red dragons, a number of neogi that landed right behind them, and even had the balls to almost TRY TO TAKE THE NEOGI SHIP.
Part of me wants to give them a really great epic ending to this story, but part of me wants to just make sure it finishes to alleviate the stress.
Always delivering the video i need just as I need it. Youre the best!
I (and more importantly my players) are really enjoying your one shot - into the fey series of adventures. Good product. I highly recommend. Great Job.
You killed it. My PCs always end up crazy OP and I'm so glad for this advice. Thank you! And the thing abt the 4x deadly encounter thing made me feel so good haha cause that's my PCs too 😑
Video starting: Kobolds
Me: Oh yes, Tucker's Kobolds
DM: No, normal kobolds
Me: * sad noises *
As a rule, if a player gets a shiny new ability that super changes the way things go (e.g. flight), here's what I try to do.
1 encounter that showcases the ability: fly up and fight those manticores in the air!
2 encounters that allow for the player to make use of the ability: a sniper on a rooftop who could normally be accessed by going in a building and using the stairs can instead be reached via flight, a nasty trap that a player could deal with can be flown over.
1 encounter that blocks the ability: you're underground and the ceilings are pretty low, not much good flight can do here, but you can still do everything else you already know how to do.
True sight is your friend against a party with a pact of the genie warlock with a pact of the chain imp (which can fly while invisible and reasonably open doors) who is a high enough level to take the whole party into their genie ring and order the imp to carry it to the boss room.
Running CoS and I know my players Strhad isn't getting much of a change just a tweak of his spells. Now he does have a few magical toys that I plan to have fun with but if they defeat him I am ready to give them to my players. They will need them when they hit lvl 20 and have a Shadow Tiamat to deal with.
I'm a new subscriber and fairly new to DMing. I've been playing homebrew as the modules seemed to be quite daunting. I've been trying to figure out exactly where I need to work on my game. And this video (among others of yours) has been so much more helpful than any others I've seen so far. I've rushed my players to higher levels and not started out small enough. I've taken a break for a while due to my daughters "terrible twos" phase and in the meantime I'm educating myself to improve my games for my players. Thank you for your immensely helpful videos and I cannot wait to put your advice to good use and get behind the screen again. Keep up the amazing work!
I've been playing in a D&D campaign for a few years now. We started at level one and are now at level 19. Our GM has informed us that he has story material already planned out all the way to level 30! He is confident we can go to level 40. We resolved the main quest (Ptolus) at level 14. Last adventure, my Mountain Dwarf Fighter (Brute) acquired The Axe of the Dwarf Lords off of a major Chaos demon.
Had a DM throw Tucker's Kobolds at us with all manner of traps, devices, and machines of mayhem. It was in an older version of D&D and it remains an event we still speak of fondly (well, more fondly than we did as they hailed down traps and damage upon us with maniacal laughter).
One thing to add, when you come up with a new ability to counter the players signature attack, don’t give it to everything, make them feel challenged not useless. Go I. The opposite direction sometimes. With the trip attack crossbow guy, maybe throw in what would be impossible for a regular party to beat at that level because there just to many dragons,but possible for them
I think it's fun to occasionally throw the types of monsters at pcs who have since leveled up, which would've been tough for them when they were lower level, to feel the power difference wiping the floor with them at higher levels. I actually forget to do this sometimes though, and make encounters challenging too often.
solid useful advice.... love the intros. been watching 3 years now. Even if I don't finish a video, I watch the skit
*Awesome video about a subject that really needs more support in the D&D community and Content .*
*All your advice in this video is solid ( not all the solutions for each issue ) .*
*But still all around good to great advice .*
*Note : We really do need more Paragon ( 10 to 20 ) level support .*
*As well as Epic ( 20 to 30 ) level content ( all kinds ) .*
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
*At some point in the future .*
*I'm most likey going to do a tier list for all the TH-cam D&D channels .*
*Note : DM's lair , Dungeon Dudes , Web DM & Seth Shorkowsky ( and others. ) are high on the list .*
DM's lair and Web DM for the win. Taking 20, XP to Lv 3 also
@@danielpayne1597
*Yes I'm aware of Taking 20 & XP to level 3 .*
*An they are both good .*
*But not in the same way and/or level as the ones i listed .*
*XP to level 3 is more D&D entertainment .*
*An taking 20 is more basic to mid level information + VTT gaming info .*
*Note : just with D&D TH-camrs , I'm subscribed to close to a 100 of them .*
*An have watched 1,000s of videos .*
*There are easily over a half dozen basic types of D&D channel .*
For me following Tipps worked well: 1. Every Combat Encounter, has to advance the Plot. A Combat without purpose is boring. 2. Not every Combat Encounter has to be challengeing. Sometimes it feels good, to know that you (the player) is powerful.
I really like this perspective, I do remember at some points I´ve had to edit on the fly because of similar issues. As long as your players have fun there should be nothing wrong. The only event in which I´d argue you MUST prepare the material before a fight, is if said component of the fight is an ability, item or situation that would be available to players as an option (mostly because some players care a lot for the mechanics of their possible actions).
Another tip I thought of with the last one you were mentioning (in regards to villains using spells such as revivify) is to make villains use magic items such as healing potions and scrolls as well.
Tier 4 is totally broken. In the climax of my recently ended camapign (the only one in almost 40 years that has actually got to 20th), the level 19 eldritch knight soloed Baphomet in less than 3 rounds. In the same battle, the wizard, who had been really looking forward to using Shapechange, was disappointed to realise they were more powerful as themselves than as an ancient red dragon. In fact, the only real threat to the PCs was their npc wizard ally who got Dominated by the cult leader and was casting Blight and Finger of Death at them.
It doesn't help that high level combats also take hours to run (the one above took 1.5 5 hour sessions).
In the next campaign I'm going to try to rectify it by going old skool and capping PC hit dice at 9 like 1st and 2nd ed. Othewise, the only way of solving it is having slooow level-ups and ending the campaign around 14.
I'll never forget the time my group killed the BBEG but didn't bother to do anything about his priesthood and they ended up resurrecting him and the PCs had to fight him again except he knew their tricks and was way more prepared. The look on their face when they heard his voice and laugh again followed by the immediate realization on their faces of their folly. Priceless.
Hi backroom Gaming here I've been a DM since I was 9 or 10 and am well into my 40s.
From experience a level 16 to 17 group can still be threaten by a group of strigen and have a threat of dying.
If there is enough the players can be over run, simple action economy. Yes that group of 4 to 6 players will win out, but the fight can be a challenge. Just as a FYI without adding anything but numbers to them.
But great video so many of these rules are spot on, I commonly run 1 to 20 adventures and they can be fun and challenging, but if done right just as fun as lower level games.
Thanks for this breakdown. I've been DM'ing for about 20 years and it seems like I very rarely get to T3/T4 since most campaigns don't last that long due to typical DnD complications (scheduling, etc). Due to this, it seems like I'm stuck running T1/T2, which I'm way better doing (since I've done them over and over again), and have little experience playing or planning for the higher tier campaigns.
One of the things that help make combat encounters difficult at higher levels is making sure the enemies abilities synergize with each other, but not reliant on each other. This is the best way to "counter" PC's abilities because they too, are synergizing their abilities they got and making their previous abilities more optimized as they figure out better and better strategies
I wouldn't say:"Don't cheat."
However, if you do it, try to uphold the consistency of the setting. And do it in a way that isn't last minute: like, telegraph it or give the players a warning that the boss'll do something cool on his next turn. I recommend Runehammer's D4 timers for that. They're a lot of fun to keep around and keep your players guessing!
I agree. Changing doors in half of the dungeon not explored yet is totally fine, as it is in no way cheating. The DM literally controls the entire multiverse (even in some lore, with Ao, the God of gods reporting to a figure of light or something like that) and they can do whatever they need or want to keep it fun for their players. However, a DM shouldn't change something already determined, such as putting a door where there wasnt one, trapping that arcane eye or invisible imp unfairly in two or three rooms.
WotC write these rules and suggestions, but then create no epic level modules themselves. It's like they're saying "Here all, it's super easy, we promise. It's so simple, in fact, that we can't be bothered to write the material." Sure, we have a great community which has been there to write, and help other's come up with, epic level stories. The problem is, it shouldn't HAVE TO come down to the community. If WotC would come out with just one level 15-20 module (sorry, I don't count DotMM) it could serve, at least, as a starting-off point. Anyway, thank YOU for taking the time to discuss this.
I'll still toss in large swarms against a Fireball wielder so they feel effective, but half the enemies in that battle are supposed to die in the first round, while the others are spread out & more powerful, and are my actual planned encounter.
Yeah. It's like the bad guys are immoral or something. They treat their weaker troops like expendable meat shields. It's like they're gosh darn evil.
One memorable high level fight was my friend who was a knight character covered in bulky heavy armor fighting a vampire on top of a roof of a house that was on FIRE
I just wanna say I love your background. I mean, a green screen is cool and all, but all the books there with nice lights look amazing
As a dm, I recommend testing fights with some basic calculations. Things like simulated fights or raw number fights to see how dangerous am encounter really is
This. As part of my prepping, I usually run mock battles myself (using the PCs) to see how it might go and adjust as needed.
I do that too but my most recent session I had a medium encounter prepared and my players tore through them by vortex warping the sharks onto shore where they suffocated.
I DM 4e. I've found high success in taking end game monsters but give them thr stats of suggested monsters at this level. It gives the players the means to survive the crazy abilities but so much can now happen, that combat becomes more RP than anything else. Players have to focus on using the environment and other creative ideas to get around what's happening. Because of this I typically start them at level 7 and rarely ever actually level.
My party’s level ten and I’m having a tough time making encounters challenging without going overboard. They literally took out a Glabrezu and a Nalfeshnee, simultaneously.
Remove death saves from your game and return to 2nd ed. -10 and yer dead. And if you get healed you're at 1 hp and you lose all spells and are as weak as a kitten. Fixes the whack a mole problem death saves cause.
Another similar solution I’ve seen is to give anyone who goes down a point of exhaustion.
I could watch these videos for the skits alone! Entertaining and informative!
8:10 A flight of evil dragons, you say? Are they like some kind of... Chroma conclave?
Love this video mate ;) Good stuff... Im a first time GM doing full homebrew. So to hear that I'm doing the right things is good news! Thanks! :D
This would actually be a good video for new old-school DMs using the Rules Cyclopedia or retro-clones with a similar all-in-one-book format. Someone learning to play with the old boxed sets got this implicitly from what was covered in each box -- that is less true if everything is together or else divided on in a non-level-based way.
17:10
You just HAD to give them the power of “opening the blinds to expose sunlight” didn’t you?
19:53. Yes. High level PCs are unkillable. At level 14, I realized my Barbarian could literally step off a sixteen story tower, rage in mid-air, and do a superhero landing, taking negligible damage.
And I went ahead and did it for effect.
That was an awesome session.
There’s a certain point where the PCs basically are comic book characters.
True but if isent ra after ut group the barbarian would be running loke a baby. Most level14s today are like level 28 when i played in 80s. But try to take ra on .... ac is 27... approx ..hps 700. No magic hurts him. He has powerful slaves.. he has powerful friends. Hecowns magical artifacts a boat that flies. His spellss level 9.. his rod and rays do 2 to 400 damage.. have ur dm put him on your party.. lololol
Level 14s today are way powerful. So give them a tough match.. just idea and point...
Level 14 monsters get creamed by levelt 14 groups i find and notice..
Have fun tell ur dm to add more powerful battles at ur characters..
@@joeharvey5556 yeah, but Ra is literally a god. The point is that by the time you're that high level, you're having tea with gods, not trying to kill them.
@@erikkennedy8725 yes but im hearing characters are too powerful..so monsters and the like must be used. I agree its a god but if ppl are walking through arch liches something is wrong. Either to much cheating or gameplay is not correct. I agree with u but u could modify and use a lesser god or ras son. Lol 5 characters at level 30.. 5e 15..could probably have fun. Just ideas ..
When we played most cr monsters were anti magic so strong the party would be ripped apart. I feel dms still d9nt run hugh levels properly..
Eldrich blast wish etc are usueless against a dragon who easily could teleport away... comeback ... counterspell etc...
Plus some high level monsters are immune to most basic magic. So wizards are out and hitpoints of over 450 would keep a party wailing for 4 hours not to memtion summoning etc etc.. no party should be able to walk through these monsters ..
But what do i know i dont tons anymore ...
I used to play alot ...
I had so many low level dungeons and bad dms i quit...lol
This game is fun.. hope u enjoy and make those cheaters powergamer start rolling stats in front of you.
No players should have more than 1 18 up to level 12...
All other rolls should be average,. There js way to much cheating ...
I did a test roll for level 1 3 months ago and after 40 rolls i never had more than 4 characters with an 18...
Maybe 17s...
Avg roll was 5 9 14 16 12 16..
Hope u have fun. If ur dm is bad get another group
Talk soon thanks for advice.
@@erikkennedy8725 if ur group is that powerful at level 14 then 5e is massviely flawed.. or there is alot of improper playing..
4 level 15s should be absolutely destroyed by a beholder.
So thats why i commented. Cause these monsters are powerful.. so mechanics somewhere are flawed.. i will look into 8t to see why its so easy for parties.
I will be honest.. matt mercer when he played critical role vecna made massive errors. Most of the spells they cast that series the liche would ha e laughed at.
Maybe im wrong i will co ti ue to study.
Maybe we need to talk to wozards for 6e to make new rules to keep it fun simple but hard.
Talk soon
Great vid! dungeon master and the story are supreme. Regarding your comments at the 19:00 mark, didn’t Gygax himself say something like, “Roll lots of dice, often. Pay attention to them only occasionally.”
No holds bars - "no holding Bards" - got it!
Correct. Most bards get more than enough physical intimacy. Ask the dragon that failed its save versus seduction.
Man, you just saved part of my campaign
To scale up against player characters, give character levels to simple monsters. I’ve done it with the PCs fighting nothing more than goblins from level 1-20.
Five goblins can wipe a 3rd level party by making one of the five a 1st level rogue. They run away after 1-2 rounds of combat, only to follow the PCs back to their camp. Their average stealth in 3e or Pathfinder 1st was +13 and most DMs don’t use that.
Five goblins with three wolves can wipe a PC group of 5th level if one of the goblins is a 3rd level rogue. If you up that to five wolves, it can wipe a group of up to 7th level. This uses the trip attack of the wolf in the initial attack to seriously harm the PCs before the goblins run off to track them to attack while they recover.
That’s the “one in five” rule. If one out of every five goblins has a level in some class, the PCs will have to think about their tactics. What I laid out above is just a scout party and a mounted scout party. As the PCs go up in levels, they face off against larger groups like the hunting party, the war band, the clan and the tribe. Each of those has a higher level leader, but still well below what the PCs are. Every time you move up a step, increase the number of goblins by a factor of five and increase the leader’s level by two above the four lower level leaders. For every four 3rd level rogues, there will be a fighter 2/rogue 3 leading them.
The PC’s level determines how well they are known by their enemies too. The war chief of a goblin war band might come looking for them because of it to prove himself as a more capable leader than the clan chief or the tribe’s chief. And that war chief has five hunting parties of five scouting parties each under him. This can wipe a party of up to 15th level, if you use their strengths. One in five is either going to have sneak attack dice or spell casting abilities.
I created the organization chart for goblins the way I did because they need that leader to keep them in line. Even in a group of five, one of them will be sneakier, more clever or more brutal than the rest. I ran an entire campaign that was just a war with a goblin tribe, nothing else.
Being somewhat experienced in high levels of play, my advice to people and DMs is this: Keep track of the save DC and to hit DC of the enemies you're using. If your party average AC is 18, and you're using enemies with a +12 to hit, meaning that there's a 70% chance the enemies will hit and only a 30% chance they miss, if those enemies hit hard, it is going to be a GRUELING encounter, the party will spend resources and will take hits. typically, if there is a 60% or more chance something will effect the party, not effect the enemy, or hit. You're getting towards the deadly zone.
Once you learn to read your player's averages, be it AC, their + to attack, their damage output and their saving throws. Combats can become a lot easier to tweak.
One final piece of advice, to make an enemy harder, it is always more fun to give it more HP, than more armour (unless its a removable obstacle, like an awesome shield, ioun stone or some other thing.) If you throw an enemy with an AC of 24 against a party who only has +8s to hit. The fight is going to feel grindy and unfair.
Fun fact - thanks to Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, one can use the Sidekick's section to sup up those 1/2 or lower cr monsters and npcs, and make them a threat dangerous enough to give a dragon reason to pause in surprise when a whole lot of town guards, scouts, bandits, lizardfolk, orcs, and other supposedly low-level threats show up when it attacks their town, only for this dragon to realize that these fellas, and their mounts, have been level grinding.
Ancient Black Dragon: (Sees about a dozen foes, and their mounts) You're only cr 1/2 apiece you know. One breath attack, and you're all dead.
Town Guard: Time to redefine that number. We're each Level 15, including the horses we rode in on.
AB Dragon: (Does the calculations.) How?
Orc: Sidekick training. We're almost as good as those Adventurers now.
AB Dragon: What do the vampires have to say about this?
Lizardfolk: They've started to stay home at night now. Especially since we now have these lovely Sun Blades and other magical weapons.
AB Dragon: Um, I'm going to leave, for now.
Town Guard: Wait until we hit Level 20! We'll be tougher then!
In my high level campaign the PCs killed a LT BBEG and his wife (the LT was a vampire the wife was a wizard) I knew ahead of time that the wife was going to have clone running so she'd pop back up (the party wizard even mentioned it when he got access to her spellbook). However the BBEG (their boss) is the high priest of the lord of undeath who's goal is to turn everything into undeath. So yeah right before lockdown I mentioned to the most perceptive party member that he caught a glimpse of the LT.
On players tricking minions into trusting them, my party in the Star Wars campaign I'm DMing has already done that twice 😂
First they told some B2s, "Quick, the intruders are heading to the engine room!" Sending the droids to no one in particular.
Then, they tricked some droids into thinking some other droids had been reprogrammed.
On the plus side, it's been fun so far
There's a fine line with combat encounters. It's true that mobs will be less effective against players with Fireball. But you still should 100% throw mobs at them so they can explode them. Still challenge them, but in fun ways.
As for the Technike of claiming to work for the Villian, my Curse of Strahd group actually has been able to get away with it because Strahd has forced them to work for him. At one point what I intendet to be a forshadowing of how strong Strahd is nearly led to a TPK when the players refused to back down. After all but two PC's where in negative hitpoints I made a cliff hanger and talked to the players. By the next session we had agreed to save the characters by having them bow to Strahd, some being turned into Werewolfs other Vampires and our Tiefling embracing his fiendish linage using the rules from the Grimmhollow Campaing guide. It made for a really interesting change in the game dynamic as Strahd ordered them to Bring Ireena to Castle Ravenloft. On the way they stoped the Druids of yesterhill from summoning winter splinter supposedly in the name of Strahd. It also allowed me to show them the consequences of their action as they backtracked and showed what happened because they left quests unfinished before. Finding Ireena and her borther imprisoned by the Burgermaster of Vallaki and Isaac or the Village of Barovia completly wiped out by a Zombie plague they could have stopped at two points in the game but moved on instead.
I knew it, I knew the Gary was really the Rouge. Also great topic today
I knew he was the Rogue, but I didn't know he was the Rouge. My screen isn't big enough to see it I guess.
Our DM was doing this in game and was very obvious about it. We told him if he kept doing it, we'd simply go into another room to plan and the just surprise him. He didn't care for that idea.
The Greatest Letdown I've ever had during a session, is when the DM "cheated" and gave the Big Bad Special Abilities that didn't fit The World (one-shotted a PC [with prior consent], without a roll, and Plane Shifted away the same round).
So if you're going to "cheat" to make an encounter harder mid-session... make sure to do it in a "balanced" manner...
My party of four level 10 boyos just beat a pit fiend. It was rough, but they made it out without any player deaths due to good rotation and battlefield control. APL; 10 CR; 21. And I did use the summon abilities on top of already having the "arena" ringed with crossbow laden guards.
On the flip side I almost tpk'd a party of five level 1's with three orks because they only had one ranged weapon among them and decided to openly engage the orks at 300+ feet. They only lived because the orks ran out of javelins and got thoroughly bloodied before melee ensued. Honestly, really solid level 1 roleplay.
Oh nice! I was looking for info on this just the other day!
I had this undead boss that I made, 16 AC, 40 hp, zombie ability when they drop to 0hp, shriek that would make players frightend and with one hit he could do 12 dmg on average for my lvl 2 party. They were melting him so fast that on a fly i gave him regenerative ability, 2 legendary actions, multiattack and undead ranger as ally. The group was genuanly terrified of him and when they killed him, they were so happy that I didnt regret anything about buffs. So imo it is great for a general game to make things harder for the sake of fun.
If you wish to increase the challenge rate of any fight Consider giving your bad guys items The bad guys should be able to throw nets, drop caltrops and so on. You can also do the same thing for the boss give them a really cool epic artifact or item. Consider doing combo attacks Such as Entangling the party Or web or whatever else Then follow up With something like a breath attack They have disadvantage on this save Not once did I take away from any players Ability They still do what they do but the bad guys and the encounters Are getting more dangerous. These are the things I consider When cranking up the Encounters.
I've told some of my players, that as a DM, I will metagame (but not as a player). Those players complained, and I explained it to them that I do it in order to keep the game challenging (not impossible!) because I do want anyone (players and myself) to be bored.
Every DM should look up the top 100 things to do as an evil overlord. That covers most of the stupid ploys like 'we work for the boss.'
I've had more than one DM before say stuff like "anything above level 5 is strictly for NPCs" and "D&D isn't designed for high level characters, everyone knows that, even the creators of the game" meanwhile the creators have come out with epic level stuff like "level 21 and higher for PC's" and a whole system where you play as gods.
"if pcs can come back from the dead, so can villains."
Did this in my current campaign. The players are fighting the drow, and at the head of it all is their matron mother, essentially a 20th level cleric. My players have a nasty habit of not dealing with the bodies of people they kill (not that that would matter much to a 20th level cleric anyway, but I digress), so she has brought back multiple lesser villains that now the party has to fight all in the final dungeon. When they first encountered just ONE of the revived enemies, they flat out dissected her to make sure her body was unusable.
They even realized that once they kill the matron mother herself, they would need to do something with her soul, otherwise another cleric would be able to just bring her back with high level magic. So they essentially decided to use a permanent Variant of the soul cage spell, with the power of a warlock patron, and the sacrifice of the warlocks freedom essentially.
Nice work on the video!
Holy cow, these skits are getting serious!
PC: I work for your boss let me in!
Minion: Ok. Here's the waiting room.
PC: Thanks!
Minion: *pulls lever*
I am a DM for 4 (now) level 5 players. When they were level 2 and 3, they had very high AC's of 17 and 18. I made the encounters deadly and they still won 😅
Is it reasonable to keep a number of actions and reactions detached from stat blocks on the go? They'd be tech options to add to major foes in order to have improptu adjustments available without taking up much table time. Stalling on a response will cue your players in on spontaneous adjustments.
Anyways, I think the portions outside of combat are the most neglected for high-level play. PCs can fly, teleport, communicate over long distances etc. and yet most locales are comfortably accessible via foot travel, often leading to PCs greatly outmaneuvering foes. It's entirely reasonable to have heavy weather and even supernatural weather be a thing, fortresses floating in the sky or any number of exotic locales, but the issue is martial classes - the ones that get absolutely nothing to improve besides more HP and Damage and a paltry amount of skill bonuses.
Thank you this video was a big help especially with the tiers of play
14:41 I made a 3.5e illusion spell that implanted vague false memories to corroborate my lies and used it to sneak into a czar's palace. That's different than just bluffing right?
A large part of the game relies on the player's trusting the DM. I think alterations on the fly can be made - and sometimes are necessary - but they should definitely be kept MINIMAL because you risk undermining that relationship which is very important.
In the doors example, I think you could add doors throughout, but you shouldn't add many. You should break the areas down into large sections with doors separating them. Let them see several rooms per section.
Maybe I'm cheesing my game, but I give flying creatures (enemy or pc) the chance to right themselves midair when hit with a trip attack. The height from the ground determines the difficult, closer to the ground is harder due to the lack of space you have to right yourself. You'll lose altitude, but you might not hit the ground.
Considering the point of "nerfing the characters" Taking 20 did a great video about it where he said how he makes the challenges way too hard but doesn't takle the weaknesses but the strenghts of the PCs. Like: your wizard can deal with hordes of Goblins. But what about 200 of them? That way you can still feel accomplishment but it is still challenging because of the scope of the battle. It feels awesome to kill whole armies and feels appropriate for the players powerlevel instead of going full Elder Scrolls "the crabs are level 50 now and got twice as big".