I really do like how KH3's combat ended up with all the new combo modifiers, but earlier this week I started my first replay of KH2 in nearly 6 years and the more grounded feel of it can honestly just never be topped for me.
I always felt weird about how BBS and DDD played, especially cause I play a lot of other action games. so your video really helped highlight my frustrations even if it wasn't perfect. the fighting game comparison works in my mind for a lot of aspects but I get its an easy spot for people to argue over nonsense. player expression, risk vs reward, easy control of the character, enemy attacks that reward counterplay/game knowledge, mistakes or damage taken is usually player error. Pretty sure Devil May Cry has a lot of fighting game DNA in it considering its developed by Capcom and those games are one of the core pillars of action combat.
Pretty much any action game and most ARPGs draw from fighting games, can tell based on the purpose of moves within a characters kit. Pretty common to see a action character have launchers, dash attack/burst option, combo extenders, and combo finishers in their kits
It's kinda crazy how one video managed to define KH Combat discourse for like 5+ years lmao. But yeah on the Floaty Combat, its not as big of a issue now thanks to more generous cancel ability and aerial guard, but still not to my personal liking. In general, prefer games that are faster and more fluid, why I prefer Zero Mission over Super Metroid. Honestly though with Remind, Osaka has shown they can make good combo modifers. Now I want to see them in KH4 make a good kit for Sora. Unlike Kh1 and 2, it felt like way to many options in 3 were some variation of Large AOE Screen Nuke. Also if they could toy around with delay combos or direction inputs like DMC that would be great
It's still a pretty big issue. Remind has better combat but a level 1 Sora can still remain in the air for an hour by mashing the attack button, regardless whether Combo Master is on or off Aerial combos in KH3 feel both braindead and unsatisfying compared to the previous numbered titles
@@odd-eyes6363 My problem with KH 3 aerial combat is the lack of slightly bobbing up and down like in 1 and 2, in those games you'd slightly bounce upwards, then fall before your next attack pops you up slightly (Recoded and Days do this too!) It's functionally the same, but the *feeling* of slightly bouncing in the air makes your hits feel so much more impactful than just staying at the same elevation the whole time, although thankfully, Osaka does seem to know how to do that, as some of Kairi's attacks have that bobbing feeling during her brief playable segment in Remind! That's probably why I personally think like Kairi's combat feels better than Sora's despite Sora having more options, simply not stiffly staying in the same elevation as you attack genuinely does wonders for how the attack itself feels
@@reddodeado301I agree with you, I really enjoyed KH3's combat and it feels really nice, especially using stuff like airstep. But the other games areal combat did have more oomph than KH3'S. So I am hoping they do that bobbing thing I. Future games.
the reason it feels like all of your options are boiled down to AOE screen nukes is because thats exactly how the game was designed. They are your strongest, easiest, and safest options every single time without fail. if you remove all of your screen nuke options you're left with basic attacks and normal magic and thats it lol. no attractions, no form change finishers, no grand magic, no summons, and no focus attacks (i know some of them arent big aoe attacks but im counting them since a good portion of them are and you're always invincible during the attack animation)
as someone who likes fighting games and action games/ARPGs I really do appreciate the comparison. I could see how it could alienate people unfamiliar with FG’s but the comparison is made well enough that should bridge that gap
My dumbass thought this video was Nomura or one of the other developers commenting on your video and I was like "Wow, what an honor to have one of the game directors review your vid!"
At the end of the day, KH3's fixes just don't feel _organic._ Like yes, you have more options in midair, which makes its inherent floatiness less annoying or problematic for the player. But KH2 limiting your options in the air wasn't a _flaw;_ it was an intentional limitation imposed on your actions (1) as part of the overall balance of its combat and (2) as part of its cohesive understanding of physics. It makes _sense_ that Sora can't guard in the air-because, without both feet on the ground, there's nothing for him to brace himself with as he takes the attack. It makes all the more sense, then, that whenever Sora guards an attack on the ground the animation shows him leaning back, clearly struggling to steady himself. Viewed altogether, Sora's movements are bound together by a clear cohesive intent and make organic _sense._ This makes them _feel real_ (even if they are not necessarily realistic). I would argue that this is one of the secret factors that makes KH2 feel particularly "responsive," actually. So then, two parallel points about KH3: (1) With respect to gameplay, KH3's solution to its floatiness just feels like it's taking the easy road of simply allowing the player to do anything and everything wherever, with seemingly no trade-offs among your various options. (2) With respect to physics, it doesn't feel like all of Sora's different actions were designed with a cohesive intent or understanding of how movement is supposed to work in this world. The movement doesn't feel unified, on a stylistic level. It just feels like they tacked on each movement or defensive ability separately to make things easier on the player, without considering their sum, i.e. how they would visually and stylistically synergize to create a continuous overall impression or representation of action.
I want to add to this by making a note of how the "sprinting" seems to work even when you're on the ground. There's a slight jump in your speed when you exit the walk animation and enter the run animation, and it's a small thing to nitpick but it feels representative of this broader disconnect with how the physics are supposed to _feel_ in this world. The game is so impatiently insistent that you move fast that it doesn't take the moment to build up your momentum and appreciate that sometimes you should be going slowly, methodically, carefully, and that idea extends to the responsiveness in the transitions between ground and air combat. Taking the easy road (which, more likely, is the "we don't have the budget or goodwill to take another 2 years and $100 million" road) shows in more places than just the combat, as we could talk about the level design and how it incorporates with the movement and combat, but those are each their own essays.
They even misunderstood what type of floaty BB meant. in RE:MIND they just made the combos quicker. Its even quicker than KH2 but they dont feel "snappy" just quick. And when you're free falling from a 2 meter height it still feels like 10 seconds when it should be half a second. The real solution to make it snappy is just from the animations side really. Personally last charge has no reason to be too fast while magic flash has no reason to be too slow.
If I had a problem with the Air dash, it's not about getting into the ground, it's about how linear and how much it stops any momentum. It feels clumsy
KH3's combat is so damn weird. The system in a vacuum is fine, but it just crumbles to dust when fighting large groups and big/flying enemies. Like, the Data Org fights are awesome, but Demon Tide and Sköll are just absolutely miserable
In general I say most action games have a lot of issues with giant bosses or flying enemies(seriously stuff the Mephisto & Faust, Fallen Angels in DMC are so annoying). Giant bosses in action games tend to fall under: gimmick, button mash, player vs camera or weird hitboxes. Going forward Osaka should work on designing good giant heartless bosses.
I like kh3 a lot man but sometimes it feels like you're fighting it to feel responsive. Like why do I have to use an item cancel to quick swap keyblades? Why do I have to keyblade swap to quickly glide? Why does it feel so ass with double flight?? The long animations of forms are often times fake as hell because you can literally just cancel anything with air step if you know what you're doing but it feels like I'm doing an exploit rather than engaging with the game as it's presented to me. The game wants me to use the cool flashy combos of the keyblade forms, but I want to use blizzard blades as sliding dash.
its funny how in this video and the previous one despite the main theme being "i was wrong about somethings and if i were to make the video today i would have used better examples or some of my arguments were flawed and i wouldnt have used them" but yet a lot of what was said still holds true and somehow looking at the footage BB found even more egregious shit in the clips used, especially in this video
As somebody who watches both Yachi Nanase (KH2) & Maka Chop (KH3), I feel like these games are both the best combat systems in the series for different reasons
Yeah cause KH3 sort of fix the "floaty issue" by allowing to basically cancel your combo at any point with a Guard (which you can use in the air) or a Dodge, making Aerial Combat much more fluid and fun.
@@nesoukkefka1741 That & the fact you can do basically anything in the air, it creates a unique combat system bc I don’t know many combat games that allow you to have defensive options mid air. KH2 is great for having 95% of your options be at your disposal at basically any given moment, KH3 is great for having abt 2x as many moves & multiple inputs to execute. Both have drawbacks like 2’s lack of options in mid air & combos getting samey, 3’s focus on AOEs & not having access to everything all the time, but either way I think KH1 is probably third in terms of combat system.
Honestly I would say post Remind the issues with Kh3 combat are lack of diversity in options(way to many AOE Screen nukes, Magic feels to samey), and Siutation commands yanking control away from the player(Let me decide on my own terms when to use a Limit or Formchange).
@@theimpersonator7086 I agree with not having access to everything at once, but I kinda disagree with the whole lack of diversity thing. There is tech with each keyblade transformation & you can essentially style through the whole game with proper resource management, on top of that flowmotion moves (including air step which is another layer in itself) out of blizzard & aero casts can lead to some interesting options as it also forces you to use your environment, shotlocks, multiple combo finishers (better ones post Re:mind) I think KH3 is the most diverse system in the franchise due to it being very freeflow both in air & on the ground, the issue is accessing most of the “cool” options are based around situation commands, as we got used to KH2 which had a very free “select any option you want at any moment” kinda system
@@nesoukkefka1741peoole not bringing up magic actually being a viable part of your combos now, since sora isnt stapling his nuts to the ground to cast a fireball.
Honestly, the problem never was the floaty combat in my opinion, the problem is that a lot of bosses in bbs, ddd, 0.2 and base kh3 had super armor all the time, which makes "floaty" combat feel horrible, since you're left open for longer periods of time against an enemy that can attack you any second due to not being staggered In kh3 remind a lot of the bosses felt good to fight despite the floaty combat due to them having proper stagger states, combo openings and revenge values, the remind bosses almost felt like a dance, you take your turn dodging and then you take your turn attacking, rinse and repeat.... just like kh2
all this revisitings of this discussions are actually reviving my dreams of there ever being a less rpg more hack and slash action kh game (doesn't need to be a dmc/bayo/ng/gow - like but i certainly wouldn't complain if it went in that direction lmao) it could also be a ven game where he actually becomes a character with his own problems related with all the shit Ux setted up that 3 didn't even try to delve into! :D
BB you're wrong Floaty combat is bad in all games, you did a very good job illustrating the issue. It's just that the issues you showed in your video for osaka team's games werent the ones you addressed. It wasn't just floaty combat that was bad. Drive form (spellweaver) gets parried. No I-frames on block. And other shit like boss casts doom a lot more if you have potions/heal (or whatever) in specific slots, and has a 'fuck you >800% damage combo that you best have Once More as an ability or you're just dead lmao' combo attack Your argument would have been better for your video if you would reference Startup/Recovery frames like you did with the one move where Sora hits 3x times but you can cancel the 3rd hit (and it's beneficial to do both cases for some fights) more often You had a good idea, but working with 'feel' isn't a good way to frame your argument. You had a fundamentally good argument. Some sentences could have used some rewording, but you did a great job.
Yeah you can notice this in how he ends up agreeing a lot with what he said in the past still. His arguments were never wrong, just not conveyed in the best way, and that's fine.
The wording was just bad. “Floaty” makes it sound like the problem with the newer games is the fact you spend a lot of time in the air, but the real problem is how unresponsive and slow they often are. “Laggy” probably would have been a much better term to use.
Love that you're active again! But I gotta say, I'm at minute 17 rn and this is the first time you've actually put into words in what way you disagree specifically. Before that, you just said what you do and don't disagree with. I understand and respect if you don't have the time anymore to do scripted vids (or don't feel like it), but still, you could definitely improve the structure of your argument so it's easier to follow. Like lay out the key differences of your opinion near the beginning or something.
This was never meant to be a seriously structured, just a way to reflect on what I said in years past and what I'd say differently all these years later.
KH3 only having air slide and not a momentum-filled evade like Aerial Dodge in KH2 that gets you away from the enemy and near-fastfalls you to the ground really made feeling being in the air such a vulnerability and making one mistaken air slide lead to death.
How the hell can you think KH3's Air Slide makes you vulnerable especially in comparison to uh....KH3's version of Aerial Dodge, when KH3 Air Slide practically has ya rocket away from an attack
Its okay. Everybody makes mistakes Bloody. Acknowledge it and try to something different next time is always better. I guess the better title could have been "The Consequences of Poorly Defined Combat tool".
Never before have I watched a video that put into words every complaint I had about BBS, DDD, and KH3's combat, and I'm not even that good. I always felt frustrated, but I couldnt' figure out why.
I do wonder how come the video wasn’t the consequences of floaty combat and how to fix it. I think with kh3 and fragmentary passage, I think the reason it might have been floaty is because of maybe all the all new moves that sora did. I guess they did this because of how many years have passed, they might have been inspired, and did the two teams combine in a way to make kh3.
Funny how KH3 still gives more control to player. Often times one issue with KH2 no one brings up is how you are always forced to move forward during attacks or how bad the camera is in that game as well not to mention how after kh1 with Kh2 bosses could just stun lock you to death and there was no learning from mistakes organically anymore. Kh2 is also only more responsive and fun with FM version which also has its own issues like Kh3 and some issues with combat being the same unfortunately. Sometimes using a reaction command could get you killed in 2. Its a matter of what you enjoy more honestly but i still find Kh3 much more fun than 2 its just a shame on console its framerate is not great and it has inherent input delay also hope those mods throwing slurs in the video have been banned now if they weren't before this reaction vid cause that behavior should not be tolerated.
@@TheAnimatedGamer Nah thats 2. Not to mention having to grind forms just to have basic good feeling combat and movements. Not to mention kH2 introduced a worse system for taking damage than KH1's amazing one. Not to mention Kh3 you can cancel out of combos anytime even finishers. Kh3 is not that. Get outta here with your boldface lies. KH3 didn't put a form to punish players for having fun and wanting sora not to control like garbage. You are forced to spam drive forms a lot in 2 and get punished when doing so. KH3 fixes a majority if not all of the mistakes KH2 did. If you struggled with hordefights sorry you didn't use aero magic or understand the formchange system. Big bosses had stagger endurance and did not have super armor and could be combo'd. you can airstep to zip around. You can roll in the air out of airslide. You can literally block almost all attacks in the game. KH3 has issues but control and freedom is not one of them. And most are inherited from 2 like the worse taking damage system from 1's. 3 is also a proper RPG compared to 2's garbage action focus.
@@dave9515The amount of control that KH3 gives you is simply due to the amount of chaotic design that the game has you are still going to be susceptible to be attacked in the air without any way to get to the ground quickly which can make for a tough situation especially in data boss fights. Which could be applied to a lot of The gameplay elements in KH3 which is the ultimate problem. You say that Kh 2 has garbage action game design but the biggest thing that Kh 3 misses in terms of an action game design is pure uniqueness in utility. Action games are not all about combo canceling it's also about how you make every single thing in your toolkit unique and play differently. A lot of the forms and summons and situation commands are simply designed around crowd control thus making the game entirely repetitive including your base combos which are basically mostly the same both on the ground in the air there's not even a sense of depth with controlling spacing because everything that you do can basically instantly fly towards the opponent. However, in KH2 most of your tool kit has a specific amount of utility. Drive forms have some limitations Yes, but that's because they are incredibly powerful in the game. Well some keyblade transformations are really cool and there are some really interesting ones in terms of utility, however a lot of their movesets really just feel the same cuz like I said most of them have AOE crowd control attacks. Even down to the magic where in KH 3 is just range magic The utility is all the same however in 2 to you have thunder which is a launcher fire that's an AOE blizzard that's a pierce attack. Even with limits I can have the choice to use team limits with the use of the MP bar I don't have to wait for a random situation command triangle attack for it to appear That's not what an action game does. like I get The criticism of the lack of Dodge canceling but KH2 is not a super chaotic game where everything is coming at you. The game wants you to be mindful about spacing as the player like an action game, it's about what utility of moves you use that's viable given the situation.
yeah, i can definitely see how bringing up KH1 and KH2 a bunch in these videos muddied the point you were trying to make. and sf5 i guess. i think it'd have made a lot more sense and have been received (marginally) better if you had done a separate video talking about how KH2 feels good and how KH1's story was well constructed.
I do want to say that I appreciate you taking responsibility and acknowledging your contribution and impact in the KH community. I don't think you're like The Reason why floaty discourse happened, but you contributed to it undeniably. There are examples of other people who contributed to a community who go on to deny and resent it, namely STAR_ with the TF2 community (just an example from the community I'm personally in). He and Jerma were the origins of a lot of trends and discourse in the TF2 community, or at least contributed, and later when he quit youtube due to burnout he'd lash out at anyone he saw mentioning him and something he contributed to the community, negative or positive.
They did muddy his points a bit, but I don't think he should have felt wrong for bringing them up since they're the natural frame of reference people go to when discussing what works and what didn't with the games.
Dude, it's over, they won't fix it. Osaka team will derive mechanics from KHIII. So it will be the same combat system, but probably worse. Time to save your money. Think about it. We wouldn't even be discussing these issues if they didn't exist to make the game worse. They will do the same thing with KHIV. I'm 100% sure that you probably are like me and don't give a damn about Missing Link either.
why do you have one of your twitch moderators calling another the r slur in the chat at 11:29 ? not reprimanded (even making it to the final cut of the video) that's shit you're cool with your moderators saying and letting slide in your chatroom? most people have moved past tolerating that kind of disgusting language and treatment of others; even in jest. The kind of hate speech that gets people banned.
missed opportunity to call this video "the consequences of 'the consequences of floaty combat'"
That would have been perfect
I love how the first Director's commentary was like "I am wiser but I was cooking" and the second one is "burn it down!"
The floaty discourse was a canon event
I really do like how KH3's combat ended up with all the new combo modifiers, but earlier this week I started my first replay of KH2 in nearly 6 years and the more grounded feel of it can honestly just never be topped for me.
genuinely. and i don’t think kh will ever find their way back to that ever again
Id like to point out KH3 puts you in a state of "flying" mechanically speaking, which is why its so floaty. You literally are flying during attacks.
I always felt weird about how BBS and DDD played, especially cause I play a lot of other action games. so your video really helped highlight my frustrations even if it wasn't perfect. the fighting game comparison works in my mind for a lot of aspects but I get its an easy spot for people to argue over nonsense. player expression, risk vs reward, easy control of the character, enemy attacks that reward counterplay/game knowledge, mistakes or damage taken is usually player error.
Pretty sure Devil May Cry has a lot of fighting game DNA in it considering its developed by Capcom and those games are one of the core pillars of action combat.
Pretty much any action game and most ARPGs draw from fighting games, can tell based on the purpose of moves within a characters kit. Pretty common to see a action character have launchers, dash attack/burst option, combo extenders, and combo finishers in their kits
It's kinda crazy how one video managed to define KH Combat discourse for like 5+ years lmao. But yeah on the Floaty Combat, its not as big of a issue now thanks to more generous cancel ability and aerial guard, but still not to my personal liking. In general, prefer games that are faster and more fluid, why I prefer Zero Mission over Super Metroid.
Honestly though with Remind, Osaka has shown they can make good combo modifers. Now I want to see them in KH4 make a good kit for Sora. Unlike Kh1 and 2, it felt like way to many options in 3 were some variation of Large AOE Screen Nuke. Also if they could toy around with delay combos or direction inputs like DMC that would be great
It's still a pretty big issue. Remind has better combat but a level 1 Sora can still remain in the air for an hour by mashing the attack button, regardless whether Combo Master is on or off
Aerial combos in KH3 feel both braindead and unsatisfying compared to the previous numbered titles
@@odd-eyes6363
My problem with KH 3 aerial combat is the lack of slightly bobbing up and down like in 1 and 2, in those games you'd slightly bounce upwards, then fall before your next attack pops you up slightly (Recoded and Days do this too!)
It's functionally the same, but the *feeling* of slightly bouncing in the air makes your hits feel so much more impactful than just staying at the same elevation the whole time, although thankfully, Osaka does seem to know how to do that, as some of Kairi's attacks have that bobbing feeling during her brief playable segment in Remind!
That's probably why I personally think like Kairi's combat feels better than Sora's despite Sora having more options, simply not stiffly staying in the same elevation as you attack genuinely does wonders for how the attack itself feels
@@reddodeado301I agree with you, I really enjoyed KH3's combat and it feels really nice, especially using stuff like airstep. But the other games areal combat did have more oomph than KH3'S. So I am hoping they do that bobbing thing I. Future games.
the reason it feels like all of your options are boiled down to AOE screen nukes is because thats exactly how the game was designed. They are your strongest, easiest, and safest options every single time without fail. if you remove all of your screen nuke options you're left with basic attacks and normal magic and thats it lol. no attractions, no form change finishers, no grand magic, no summons, and no focus attacks (i know some of them arent big aoe attacks but im counting them since a good portion of them are and you're always invincible during the attack animation)
@@Maxshark999 Well aware. The large world design is at fault for this, in Kh1 and 2 there was better diversity as the worlds and room were not huge.
as someone who likes fighting games and action games/ARPGs I really do appreciate the comparison. I could see how it could alienate people unfamiliar with FG’s but the comparison is made well enough that should bridge that gap
My dumbass thought this video was Nomura or one of the other developers commenting on your video and I was like "Wow, what an honor to have one of the game directors review your vid!"
Mom wake up, new Bl00dybizkitz video just dropped
At the end of the day, KH3's fixes just don't feel _organic._ Like yes, you have more options in midair, which makes its inherent floatiness less annoying or problematic for the player. But KH2 limiting your options in the air wasn't a _flaw;_ it was an intentional limitation imposed on your actions (1) as part of the overall balance of its combat and (2) as part of its cohesive understanding of physics. It makes _sense_ that Sora can't guard in the air-because, without both feet on the ground, there's nothing for him to brace himself with as he takes the attack. It makes all the more sense, then, that whenever Sora guards an attack on the ground the animation shows him leaning back, clearly struggling to steady himself. Viewed altogether, Sora's movements are bound together by a clear cohesive intent and make organic _sense._ This makes them _feel real_ (even if they are not necessarily realistic). I would argue that this is one of the secret factors that makes KH2 feel particularly "responsive," actually.
So then, two parallel points about KH3: (1) With respect to gameplay, KH3's solution to its floatiness just feels like it's taking the easy road of simply allowing the player to do anything and everything wherever, with seemingly no trade-offs among your various options. (2) With respect to physics, it doesn't feel like all of Sora's different actions were designed with a cohesive intent or understanding of how movement is supposed to work in this world. The movement doesn't feel unified, on a stylistic level. It just feels like they tacked on each movement or defensive ability separately to make things easier on the player, without considering their sum, i.e. how they would visually and stylistically synergize to create a continuous overall impression or representation of action.
I want to add to this by making a note of how the "sprinting" seems to work even when you're on the ground. There's a slight jump in your speed when you exit the walk animation and enter the run animation, and it's a small thing to nitpick but it feels representative of this broader disconnect with how the physics are supposed to _feel_ in this world. The game is so impatiently insistent that you move fast that it doesn't take the moment to build up your momentum and appreciate that sometimes you should be going slowly, methodically, carefully, and that idea extends to the responsiveness in the transitions between ground and air combat. Taking the easy road (which, more likely, is the "we don't have the budget or goodwill to take another 2 years and $100 million" road) shows in more places than just the combat, as we could talk about the level design and how it incorporates with the movement and combat, but those are each their own essays.
They even misunderstood what type of floaty BB meant.
in RE:MIND they just made the combos quicker. Its even quicker than KH2 but they dont feel "snappy" just quick. And when you're free falling from a 2 meter height it still feels like 10 seconds when it should be half a second. The real solution to make it snappy is just from the animations side really. Personally last charge has no reason to be too fast while magic flash has no reason to be too slow.
If I had a problem with the Air dash, it's not about getting into the ground, it's about how linear and how much it stops any momentum. It feels clumsy
KH3's combat is so damn weird. The system in a vacuum is fine, but it just crumbles to dust when fighting large groups and big/flying enemies. Like, the Data Org fights are awesome, but Demon Tide and Sköll are just absolutely miserable
In general I say most action games have a lot of issues with giant bosses or flying enemies(seriously stuff the Mephisto & Faust, Fallen Angels in DMC are so annoying). Giant bosses in action games tend to fall under: gimmick, button mash, player vs camera or weird hitboxes. Going forward Osaka should work on designing good giant heartless bosses.
Glad to see you back man. Hope youre doing well.
I like kh3 a lot man but sometimes it feels like you're fighting it to feel responsive. Like why do I have to use an item cancel to quick swap keyblades? Why do I have to keyblade swap to quickly glide? Why does it feel so ass with double flight?? The long animations of forms are often times fake as hell because you can literally just cancel anything with air step if you know what you're doing but it feels like I'm doing an exploit rather than engaging with the game as it's presented to me. The game wants me to use the cool flashy combos of the keyblade forms, but I want to use blizzard blades as sliding dash.
BB must be feeling like Oppenheimer for normalizing the term "floaty combat"
BB will go crazy once FFVII mod drops
I missed you a lot, i'm so Happy you are creating content for TH-cam again
The issue was never the floating imo the issue is the lack of snappy options and defensive capabilities in the air which KH3 added more in remind.
its funny how in this video and the previous one despite the main theme being "i was wrong about somethings and if i were to make the video today i would have used better examples or some of my arguments were flawed and i wouldnt have used them" but yet a lot of what was said still holds true and somehow looking at the footage BB found even more egregious shit in the clips used, especially in this video
Why are the mods calling me a pedophile @2:29
Been waiting for another upload for a while how ya been
Ahh your back.
the consequences of floaty combat is they are cooking kh4 for way too long.
As somebody who watches both Yachi Nanase (KH2) & Maka Chop (KH3), I feel like these games are both the best combat systems in the series for different reasons
Yeah cause KH3 sort of fix the "floaty issue" by allowing to basically cancel your combo at any point with a Guard (which you can use in the air) or a Dodge, making Aerial Combat much more fluid and fun.
@@nesoukkefka1741 That & the fact you can do basically anything in the air, it creates a unique combat system bc I don’t know many combat games that allow you to have defensive options mid air. KH2 is great for having 95% of your options be at your disposal at basically any given moment, KH3 is great for having abt 2x as many moves & multiple inputs to execute. Both have drawbacks like 2’s lack of options in mid air & combos getting samey, 3’s focus on AOEs & not having access to everything all the time, but either way I think KH1 is probably third in terms of combat system.
Honestly I would say post Remind the issues with Kh3 combat are lack of diversity in options(way to many AOE Screen nukes, Magic feels to samey), and Siutation commands yanking control away from the player(Let me decide on my own terms when to use a Limit or Formchange).
@@theimpersonator7086 I agree with not having access to everything at once, but I kinda disagree with the whole lack of diversity thing. There is tech with each keyblade transformation & you can essentially style through the whole game with proper resource management, on top of that flowmotion moves (including air step which is another layer in itself) out of blizzard & aero casts can lead to some interesting options as it also forces you to use your environment, shotlocks, multiple combo finishers (better ones post Re:mind) I think KH3 is the most diverse system in the franchise due to it being very freeflow both in air & on the ground, the issue is accessing most of the “cool” options are based around situation commands, as we got used to KH2 which had a very free “select any option you want at any moment” kinda system
@@nesoukkefka1741peoole not bringing up magic actually being a viable part of your combos now, since sora isnt stapling his nuts to the ground to cast a fireball.
Sad I missed the “The Turning Point” commentary stream, but hopefully you end up posting it here or archiving it as a twitch VOD!
Take a shot every time BB says "Osaka"
You were gone for so long, thank goodness we got you twice in this video
Honestly, the problem never was the floaty combat in my opinion, the problem is that a lot of bosses in bbs, ddd, 0.2 and base kh3 had super armor all the time, which makes "floaty" combat feel horrible, since you're left open for longer periods of time against an enemy that can attack you any second due to not being staggered
In kh3 remind a lot of the bosses felt good to fight despite the floaty combat due to them having proper stagger states, combo openings and revenge values, the remind bosses almost felt like a dance, you take your turn dodging and then you take your turn attacking, rinse and repeat.... just like kh2
Based
>he doesn’t know about KH3 Stagger Endurance
Would love to see more reactions to old videos or at least more KHTalks because I miss hearing your based opinions about Kingdom Hearts man! 🙌😁
I long for the days of rumbling rose finisher spam lol
all this revisitings of this discussions are actually reviving my dreams of there ever being a less rpg more hack and slash action kh game (doesn't need to be a dmc/bayo/ng/gow - like but i certainly wouldn't complain if it went in that direction lmao)
it could also be a ven game where he actually becomes a character with his own problems related with all the shit Ux setted up that 3 didn't even try to delve into! :D
BB you're wrong
Floaty combat is bad in all games, you did a very good job illustrating the issue.
It's just that the issues you showed in your video for osaka team's games werent the ones you addressed. It wasn't just floaty combat that was bad.
Drive form (spellweaver) gets parried.
No I-frames on block.
And other shit like
boss casts doom a lot more if you have potions/heal (or whatever) in specific slots, and has a 'fuck you >800% damage combo that you best have Once More as an ability or you're just dead lmao' combo attack
Your argument would have been better for your video if you would reference Startup/Recovery frames like you did with the one move where Sora hits 3x times but you can cancel the 3rd hit (and it's beneficial to do both cases for some fights) more often
You had a good idea, but working with 'feel' isn't a good way to frame your argument.
You had a fundamentally good argument. Some sentences could have used some rewording, but you did a great job.
Yeah you can notice this in how he ends up agreeing a lot with what he said in the past still. His arguments were never wrong, just not conveyed in the best way, and that's fine.
The wording was just bad. “Floaty” makes it sound like the problem with the newer games is the fact you spend a lot of time in the air, but the real problem is how unresponsive and slow they often are. “Laggy” probably would have been a much better term to use.
Love that you're active again! But I gotta say, I'm at minute 17 rn and this is the first time you've actually put into words in what way you disagree specifically. Before that, you just said what you do and don't disagree with.
I understand and respect if you don't have the time anymore to do scripted vids (or don't feel like it), but still, you could definitely improve the structure of your argument so it's easier to follow. Like lay out the key differences of your opinion near the beginning or something.
This was never meant to be a seriously structured, just a way to reflect on what I said in years past and what I'd say differently all these years later.
KH3 only having air slide and not a momentum-filled evade like Aerial Dodge in KH2 that gets you away from the enemy and near-fastfalls you to the ground really made feeling being in the air such a vulnerability and making one mistaken air slide lead to death.
air slide basically teleports you to the other side of the map with i-frames dude it's your go-to get out of jail free card
How the hell can you think KH3's Air Slide makes you vulnerable especially in comparison to uh....KH3's version of Aerial Dodge, when KH3 Air Slide practically has ya rocket away from an attack
Its okay. Everybody makes mistakes Bloody. Acknowledge it and try to something different next time is always better.
I guess the better title could have been "The Consequences of Poorly Defined Combat tool".
Never before have I watched a video that put into words every complaint I had about BBS, DDD, and KH3's combat, and I'm not even that good. I always felt frustrated, but I couldnt' figure out why.
Thanks god we live in a post Re:Mind world
I do wonder how come the video wasn’t the consequences of floaty combat and how to fix it. I think with kh3 and fragmentary passage, I think the reason it might have been floaty is because of maybe all the all new moves that sora did. I guess they did this because of how many years have passed, they might have been inspired, and did the two teams combine in a way to make kh3.
Momentum.
Also Yen Sid spin off game agenda.
ayyy now Ive been in TWO BB videos lolll
Its our fault for poorly regurgitating this video instead of just saying "yeah bbs feels less snappy than like 1 and 2"
Funny how KH3 still gives more control to player. Often times one issue with KH2 no one brings up is how you are always forced to move forward during attacks or how bad the camera is in that game as well not to mention how after kh1 with Kh2 bosses could just stun lock you to death and there was no learning from mistakes organically anymore. Kh2 is also only more responsive and fun with FM version which also has its own issues like Kh3 and some issues with combat being the same unfortunately. Sometimes using a reaction command could get you killed in 2. Its a matter of what you enjoy more honestly but i still find Kh3 much more fun than 2 its just a shame on console its framerate is not great and it has inherent input delay also hope those mods throwing slurs in the video have been banned now if they weren't before this reaction vid cause that behavior should not be tolerated.
KH3 has just about most of those negatives you mentioned
@@TheAnimatedGamer Nah thats 2. Not to mention having to grind forms just to have basic good feeling combat and movements. Not to mention kH2 introduced a worse system for taking damage than KH1's amazing one. Not to mention Kh3 you can cancel out of combos anytime even finishers. Kh3 is not that. Get outta here with your boldface lies. KH3 didn't put a form to punish players for having fun and wanting sora not to control like garbage. You are forced to spam drive forms a lot in 2 and get punished when doing so. KH3 fixes a majority if not all of the mistakes KH2 did. If you struggled with hordefights sorry you didn't use aero magic or understand the formchange system. Big bosses had stagger endurance and did not have super armor and could be combo'd. you can airstep to zip around. You can roll in the air out of airslide. You can literally block almost all attacks in the game. KH3 has issues but control and freedom is not one of them. And most are inherited from 2 like the worse taking damage system from 1's. 3 is also a proper RPG compared to 2's garbage action focus.
@@dave9515The amount of control that KH3 gives you is simply due to the amount of chaotic design that the game has you are still going to be susceptible to be attacked in the air without any way to get to the ground quickly which can make for a tough situation especially in data boss fights. Which could be applied to a lot of The gameplay elements in KH3 which is the ultimate problem. You say that Kh 2 has garbage action game design but the biggest thing that Kh 3 misses in terms of an action game design is pure uniqueness in utility. Action games are not all about combo canceling it's also about how you make every single thing in your toolkit unique and play differently. A lot of the forms and summons and situation commands are simply designed around crowd control thus making the game entirely repetitive including your base combos which are basically mostly the same both on the ground in the air there's not even a sense of depth with controlling spacing because everything that you do can basically instantly fly towards the opponent. However, in KH2 most of your tool kit has a specific amount of utility. Drive forms have some limitations Yes, but that's because they are incredibly powerful in the game. Well some keyblade transformations are really cool and there are some really interesting ones in terms of utility, however a lot of their movesets really just feel the same cuz like I said most of them have AOE crowd control attacks. Even down to the magic where in KH 3 is just range magic The utility is all the same however in 2 to you have thunder which is a launcher fire that's an AOE blizzard that's a pierce attack. Even with limits I can have the choice to use team limits with the use of the MP bar I don't have to wait for a random situation command triangle attack for it to appear That's not what an action game does. like I get The criticism of the lack of Dodge canceling but KH2 is not a super chaotic game where everything is coming at you. The game wants you to be mindful about spacing as the player like an action game, it's about what utility of moves you use that's viable given the situation.
AH Yes the day you inadvertadly drop a nuke on the KH community XD
who else thought the video started halfway through
🔥🔥🔥❤❤❤
to be fair to past BB, you only said the word "floaty" once or twice.
The lord of the rings the return of the king
Even replaying kh3 the floaty still annoys me there's times I enjoy the gameplay others time I get taken out cause of it
cant wait for kh4 to be floaty
Im joking please dont take this seriously
I will say i dont think you invented the term floaty. I remember a video during that kh3 even were they talked about how floating kh3 was in the demo
yeah, i can definitely see how bringing up KH1 and KH2 a bunch in these videos muddied the point you were trying to make. and sf5 i guess.
i think it'd have made a lot more sense and have been received (marginally) better if you had done a separate video talking about how KH2 feels good and how KH1's story was well constructed.
I do want to say that I appreciate you taking responsibility and acknowledging your contribution and impact in the KH community. I don't think you're like The Reason why floaty discourse happened, but you contributed to it undeniably.
There are examples of other people who contributed to a community who go on to deny and resent it, namely STAR_ with the TF2 community (just an example from the community I'm personally in). He and Jerma were the origins of a lot of trends and discourse in the TF2 community, or at least contributed, and later when he quit youtube due to burnout he'd lash out at anyone he saw mentioning him and something he contributed to the community, negative or positive.
They did muddy his points a bit, but I don't think he should have felt wrong for bringing them up since they're the natural frame of reference people go to when discussing what works and what didn't with the games.
Gravity
2:34 🤣🤣🤣
17:36 😂😂😂
Are you Brazilian?
Dude, it's over, they won't fix it. Osaka team will derive mechanics from KHIII. So it will be the same combat system, but probably worse. Time to save your money.
Think about it. We wouldn't even be discussing these issues if they didn't exist to make the game worse. They will do the same thing with KHIV. I'm 100% sure that you probably are like me and don't give a damn about Missing Link either.
*Mumkey Jones discusses Kingdom Hearts with the past image of Bizkit047's brother *
The F word
why do you have one of your twitch moderators calling another the r slur in the chat at 11:29 ? not reprimanded (even making it to the final cut of the video) that's shit you're cool with your moderators saying and letting slide in your chatroom? most people have moved past tolerating that kind of disgusting language and treatment of others; even in jest. The kind of hate speech that gets people banned.
I havent. And youre retarded for thinking that. Grow up and get some perspective.
Retard