Thanks for the great insights on co-regulation! I have a question: how is it determined with let's say two people in the room meeting, one is in a ventral vagual state (safe and social state) the other in sympatic state (mobilization, fight-flight). Who pulls whom "over"? Let's say it's not a therapeutic setting and both people are co-workers. Which state pulls the other "over"? Like: will the ventral vagual state person pull the sympathetic person into becoming ventral vagual as well? Or will it be the other way around and the sympathetic person will pull the other person out of ventral vagual state into becoming more fidgety and agitated themselves? Is this determined on who's more stable or more "stuck" in their individual state? I'm asking because I have experienced both myself already: having been pulled out of my own calm and centered state by spending a day working with someone with a strong sympathetic response going the whole time as well as during other times being able to help a sympathetic state person calm down and become more regulated through my calm state (and of course the other way around when I was in fight-flight and either pulled a calm person out of their calm state and into becoming more agitated or was able to co-regulate with a calm person).
Really good question! It would come down to the strength of the safety state. If the person in their ventral state is well-anchored and is able to allow some sympathetic energy, they won't become dysregulated. A strong anchor in safety allows for sympathetic and dorsal without dysregulation. Over time, the person in a defensive state ideally receives the co-regulative cues of safety and softens their defenses. Of course, the defensive state individual may a very weak safety state (vagal brake) and therefore have major problems with activating safety through co-regulation. Especially if connection with others has been threatening in the past.
@@JustinLMFT thank you so much for the fast reply and for enlightening about these every-day events! I feel that outside of deliberate therapeutic settings these experiences happen multiple times every day and much more unnoticed because most of the time none of the people involved has awareness of it and therefore cannot take deliberate action about it. I find that in situations when I am pretty stable in my safe state it can wear me down when in the company of an excessively fight-flight person for a whole day and it seems to "creep" into me over time and destabilize me as hours go by. With the same people I often experienced what you mentioned that even if I actively offer help to calm them down they often start to become even more agitated and to defend their intense state with arguments as "but such and such is happening how can you tell me that I could deal differently with it than fighting for my life?" and the whole situations becomes what feels like an energetic tug-of-war which I usually end by telling them that I do not want to expose myself to this kind of energy any longer and retreat. Not the ideal way to go about it, I'm sure 😔
Your courses are insanely expensive and prohibit most people from getting any help. You'd reach more people if anyone could afford it. Most deregulated and traumatised people do not have money.
Hey there. Yes, the lifetime purchase is very expensive. This is why I made the much less expensive subscription model "Total Access Membership." In it, you get ALL my courses, my private community, countless hours of exclusive content, and nonstop opportunities for Q&A with me and the community. I think my subscription is ridiculously underpriced. And I also have countless hours of free information available for all. You can find them neatly organized in Learning Hubs on my free Members Center on my site - JustinLMFT.com. If you have questions about any of this stuff, let me know! I hope you find helpful information at a price point that is approachable, including free. :)
@@Kinship1 Justin has loads of free resources here and on his website. The podcast is full of fantastic information. The paid membership can appear expensive (I feel your frustration), but it's very reasonable - especially compared with other things I've seen. From a practical perspective, it's worth thinking about it as enabling the free stuff to be created too. It costs a lot to maintain and run an online platform - hosting is surprisingly expensive, so it'll be covering that groundwork. And then to be able to create a beautifully produced weekly podcast/video freely available for everyone, the paid membership is part of that ecosystem. There is no perfect model with this kind of thing, but I'm drawn to Justin for his integrity and authenticity as someone who is giving a lot of time and energy to supporting people wherever they are at.
Thanks for the great insights on co-regulation!
I have a question: how is it determined with let's say two people in the room meeting, one is in a ventral vagual state (safe and social state) the other in sympatic state (mobilization, fight-flight). Who pulls whom "over"? Let's say it's not a therapeutic setting and both people are co-workers. Which state pulls the other "over"? Like: will the ventral vagual state person pull the sympathetic person into becoming ventral vagual as well? Or will it be the other way around and the sympathetic person will pull the other person out of ventral vagual state into becoming more fidgety and agitated themselves?
Is this determined on who's more stable or more "stuck" in their individual state?
I'm asking because I have experienced both myself already: having been pulled out of my own calm and centered state by spending a day working with someone with a strong sympathetic response going the whole time as well as during other times being able to help a sympathetic state person calm down and become more regulated through my calm state (and of course the other way around when I was in fight-flight and either pulled a calm person out of their calm state and into becoming more agitated or was able to co-regulate with a calm person).
Really good question! It would come down to the strength of the safety state. If the person in their ventral state is well-anchored and is able to allow some sympathetic energy, they won't become dysregulated. A strong anchor in safety allows for sympathetic and dorsal without dysregulation. Over time, the person in a defensive state ideally receives the co-regulative cues of safety and softens their defenses. Of course, the defensive state individual may a very weak safety state (vagal brake) and therefore have major problems with activating safety through co-regulation. Especially if connection with others has been threatening in the past.
@@JustinLMFT thank you so much for the fast reply and for enlightening about these every-day events! I feel that outside of deliberate therapeutic settings these experiences happen multiple times every day and much more unnoticed because most of the time none of the people involved has awareness of it and therefore cannot take deliberate action about it.
I find that in situations when I am pretty stable in my safe state it can wear me down when in the company of an excessively fight-flight person for a whole day and it seems to "creep" into me over time and destabilize me as hours go by.
With the same people I often experienced what you mentioned that even if I actively offer help to calm them down they often start to become even more agitated and to defend their intense state with arguments as "but such and such is happening how can you tell me that I could deal differently with it than fighting for my life?" and the whole situations becomes what feels like an energetic tug-of-war which I usually end by telling them that I do not want to expose myself to this kind of energy any longer and retreat. Not the ideal way to go about it, I'm sure 😔
Your courses are insanely expensive and prohibit most people from getting any help. You'd reach more people if anyone could afford it. Most deregulated and traumatised people do not have money.
It's the same with everyone like you - Irene Lyon for example, she's making a fortune of others suffering and doesn't care.
Hey there. Yes, the lifetime purchase is very expensive. This is why I made the much less expensive subscription model "Total Access Membership." In it, you get ALL my courses, my private community, countless hours of exclusive content, and nonstop opportunities for Q&A with me and the community. I think my subscription is ridiculously underpriced.
And I also have countless hours of free information available for all. You can find them neatly organized in Learning Hubs on my free Members Center on my site - JustinLMFT.com.
If you have questions about any of this stuff, let me know! I hope you find helpful information at a price point that is approachable, including free. :)
@@Kinship1 Justin has loads of free resources here and on his website. The podcast is full of fantastic information. The paid membership can appear expensive (I feel your frustration), but it's very reasonable - especially compared with other things I've seen. From a practical perspective, it's worth thinking about it as enabling the free stuff to be created too. It costs a lot to maintain and run an online platform - hosting is surprisingly expensive, so it'll be covering that groundwork. And then to be able to create a beautifully produced weekly podcast/video freely available for everyone, the paid membership is part of that ecosystem. There is no perfect model with this kind of thing, but I'm drawn to Justin for his integrity and authenticity as someone who is giving a lot of time and energy to supporting people wherever they are at.
@@JustinLMFT I very much appreciate your approach, Justin! Very considered and considerate!
@@Kinship1 I don’t like her vibe/energy either. I wouldn’t feel safe or comfortable working with her.