As a person whose in college to become a filmmaker... This videogame is going to be my addiction for the next few years I can tell already. Can't wait for the beta
As an information and communication engineer student, whos very committed in making a video game one day, this tool is going to be very helpful in creating prototypes. If it is how they say it is, this is going to be a really great tool.
I have wanted something like this to happen for sooo long and am sooo happy that they are aiming for this in the future (crys tears of joy) the team at MediaMolecule are pretty much my heroes
Thus solidifying my idea of using not a single asset from another person in my games that I create. It's going to be harder this way, but it's also going to allow my games to have one particular style across the whole thing.
You are right, it does not fit that definition of an indie game. My personal definition of indie game is an innovative game (uses new ideas, new engine or etc) and is made by a small team of developers.
And i suppose if you make something which someone uses in a game they sell you get your fair cut of the profit and MediaMolecule also deserves a cut. This way you can make money from creating anything in dreams. That is soo awesome
IMO this is a developer's Pipe Dream. Not going to happen. Too many legal and technical issues for this to ever happen with Dreams. However, a future incarnation of the game, if it proves popular, may be developed to be a game creation engine for commercial creation but I think there is zero chance that the PS4 game that is launching this year will let you make commercial games. That said, you could use Dreams as a prototype engine to make a concept which you could go on to build in Unity etc..
"That said, you could use Dreams as a prototype engine to make a concept which you could go on to build in Unity etc.. " That is EXACTLY why I'm so excited about this game. A great tool to make a prototype of a game.
isn't the entire philosophy of dreams to play create and share. The way the devs described this game was if you were a character designer but couldn't craft worlds, you could borrow assets from other players to create worlds, for example sackboy1 may have created a detailed tree model, and sackboy5 may have animated water for a river or a stream, and sackboy17 may have composed a song that fits the mood of the scene. I feel like the community would be oriented towards a mindset of not wanting to share assets and develop stricter behaviour to protect intellectual property if this were to happen. Since this is a spiritual successor to LBP, when you take into consideration the type of game lbp was, this might not be a good idea for the community. But I also understand the point of wanting to own work and not wanting to share it, if I created music, I would want to share it, but would like people to credit, I could see another music creator wanting to protect their creations. I feel like a good way to do this is to have a promotion program from MM. So what that would involve is a situation where certain levels that are published get MM picks (like LBP) and ones that are substantial enough to meet the criteria for PlayStation Network certification are then basically given a green light, and the creators are then given the opportunity to then publish the game on the PlayStation store. MM could have a sponsored dreams program that rewards skilled members of the community. Because obviously due to how certification works, not everything can just end up on the store. The PS Store isn't a medium where people can freely, independently publish games whenever they feel like it, and it's not really within the realms of MM's jurisdiction to grant players the right to do it. It would have to be an assisted program where Media Molecule perhaps publish special community created levels as DLC or independent games. MM also have to consider how it affects them as a company if they allow someone to publish something that hasn't been tested properly, or if it uses replications of assets from another game. So there would have to be strict moderation if a program like this were to exist. PlayStation store is very different to steam, it's not a simple case of developers building something in the unity or unreal engine and publishing it to steam. There is an application and certification process and a lot of legal stuff that MM would have to sort out. Not to mention this would have to be entirely dependent on the requirement that the assets being used have not been taken from another player or edited from a foundation created by another player unless collaborators were included in the cut.
Makes me wonder how payment would be split up between the different devs involved on any given project, whether you're an artist, composer, level designer, story writer, etc.
If Media Molecule has some path to getting your game onto the PS Store directly from Dreams, they could make sure the payment is distributed among the people who contributed automatically based on size of contribution.
I have been advocating that it would be beneficial to Mm, Dreams, and Sony if finished player created experiences could be brought out of the suite altogether and offered/sold directly from the Sony play store or even better yet a dedicated icon on the PS4 UI. The backend minus creation suite could be preloaded already on the console. This would be an easy access point for those that no nothing about dreams or don't think they have any interest in the creation side of things. This would also be extra revenue coming in from players that won't be buying the game right out. Learning that these little experiences where all made in Dreams through playing them without first purchasing the full suite could generate even more interest in the full suite. File sizes are pretty small as it is so that wouldn't be an issue. Each game would not need to also include the entire back end being a separate entity they launch from. The back end only needs to be downloaded and installed once.
I read about this in Edge. This is easily the most interesting thing from the article. Imagine being able to make games and publish them. We could be competing with AAA devs ourselves.
It will also create game testing jobs which is 1 of the best jobs you can get. Obviously you will need to pay a game tester to test for bugs and to make sure the game is worthy of charging money for so people will be getting paid to make or test games. Good news all around
No it wont. The community, people playing dreams will be the testers. Every game made by someone buying the game will be available on Dreams, like LBP. 99%will be shit like LBP Did LBP creators hire game testers? No. Will Dream creators hire game tester? oh hell no.
Your logic makes no sence. If the community tests the game then you won't make sales because everyone has already played it for free. And random people are not legit game testers they won't do the boring things that game testers do to find all the bugs/issues in the game. You need proper game testers to make sure your game is worthy of charging money and ready to go. Having to pay to get your game tested will be worth it even for the feedback if your game is rejected so you know what to work on and paying to get your game tested will stop people trying to get their trash games tested so game testers won't be wasting their time with BS
There are no game testers in lbp because it's completely different. You can't sell your games on lbp and their are no game testers willing to test games properly for free
Lets say you pay a game tester $100 (i'm in NZ so that will be about $70 American dollars) this buys your game 1 hour of testing. If the tester figures your game is too trash early on in testing he can stop without further testing and give you a warning. This gives you a 1 month ban from being able to get a game tested after that month is up you can get 1 game tested free of charge but you only get 1 warning. If the tester likes your game after the hour is up the rest of the game will get tested for free and since mediamolecule gets a percentage of the profit it would be well worth it for them. If the game tester likes your game but due to bugs/issues they will not let you sell your game they will give you feedback of everything that's wrong in your game and once you go fix those issues they will sell your game (no need to re-pay game tester in this scenario). So it will be cheap to get your game tested professionaly. The game testers will be well paid aswel as the developers at mediamolecule. People get good feedback. And testers won't waste time testing trash games because it costs money to get a game tested
I think you maybe can publish a demo of the game. For example if you have many game modes, only one game mode with 5 levels are available. Then people can try the game before they buy the whole game. It would be much better, because I like to try before buying. And I think many people are agreed. :)
Small games perhaps. The limits are starting to show though not cemented. I was keeping what I thought those limits might be fairly conservative but it is starting to look like those limits will be even more restrictive than I imagined. Sure there are tricks we can use to do more more even so for full games that aren't short little things count on things being as simple and basic as absolutely possible and perhaps even more watered down than even that to pull a vision off. Dreams is meant to be sketchbook for ideas a way to quickly test concepts. Keeping object resolution (looseness) as low as you can and the number of unique objects with little detail as low as possible in order to have larger areas with many things going on will be key along with tricks to load into new area like going through a tunnel or something. But the amount of data that can be transferred from one load to another is going to be quite limited as well or so it would seem. We'll be able to create very cool and interesting things and no one was expecting The Witcher III level of detail and scale Even pulling off Ocarina of time detail and scale will probably be too grand. The games we've seen with decent amounts of detail or the appearance of it are actually quite small in scale. I'm just not sure we'll be able to pull off games grand enough to stand on their own. It'll be interesting to see. Look at the house that was recently created. That one asset with no details that was essentially drafting of a structure took up nearly the entire meter. After loosening the resolution up on the whole thing as far as I would want to take it and not give a phantom like appearance to it that one asset still took up a rather significant chuck on the thermo. Again with no details. Had it all been made from just a couple of pieces repeated it would be even lower but it was super basic as it was. And constraint yourself to so few assets is going to make some super basic game world. That is a tactic in game design to do just that but it is even more significant than even I was imagining is my point. The game is designed to keep multiple games preloaded for quickly moving on to another and maintaining fast downloads. This takes away resources that could be available for each game as well.
Wow that's very interesting. I was actually thinking about that the other day. Do you think you can try to find out if implementing something like structure destruction physics in the game? If so the pssoibilities are endless. I'm also wondering if it would be possible to create an RTS game out of Dreams. Hmmm.
That’s kinda scary, LBP 1 & 2 has levels that were on par with the campaigns, but they didn’t cost money. If people are greedy, they might make game that cost too much. It’s just not my thing, not yet, I’ll have to look more into it.
bluefalcon99 you will be able to upload any MP3 into a game. But if it's a licensed track and you publish it, it will most likely get taken down and you may lose your MP3 uploading privilege's. It's what Siobhan Reddy wrote in the the edge magazine.
Swickful oh okay. Thanks for the reply! Still awesome though because my brother likes to make music on the computer and I can use his tracks if I want because they're not licensed in any way. Just need his "okay" lol
Well i already emailed them about this last year but they didn't respond, so i don't think it's happening. Too bad cause it seems like an extremely capable and intuitive engine.
In other words, you can't make money off Dreams, BUT, you can possibly design your own art within dreams for shirts which you can sell, but even that I'm not so sure.
Question for anybody who can answer this regarding this topic. Okay so. Say I make a story line game and I'm allowed to sell it in the PSN store. Does Sony have full rights to my story? Because I plan to put a story I'm working on in real life into Dreams and I plan to publish it in the future but would I even be allowed to publish it in book form?
We are ALL one dev team in dreams! Why can't people understand this kind of concept?! We are ALL one co-op and one business in society as well...but people just can't stop chasing personal cash...
I'm sorry if some of us need money to live I apologise for everyone who wants to do what they love (in this case making games) for a living instead of having a shitty job they hate and only being able to work on the games they love 2 hours a week on sunday, that's much better
Yeah you're right, then you have to learn how to model, animate, record sound, dialogue, create music, oh and code, code, code.... The learning curve is huge, and massively overwhelming for someone with no experience. To make a decent game by yourself would take hundreds of hours, if not thousands. With dreams, all the tools are there, all the coding is done, you simply create. Sure there'll be a learning curve as well, but not nearly as much as starting from scratch. This is a revolutionary game, offering possibilities to gamers that have never been offered before.
As a person whose in college to become a filmmaker... This videogame is going to be my addiction for the next few years I can tell already. Can't wait for the beta
As an information and communication engineer student, whos very committed in making a video game one day, this tool is going to be very helpful in creating prototypes. If it is how they say it is, this is going to be a really great tool.
Have you made anything so far?
I have wanted something like this to happen for sooo long and am sooo happy that they are aiming for this in the future (crys tears of joy) the team at MediaMolecule are pretty much my heroes
Mark Healey is not just an Mm developer, he is a founder and creater of the Dreams Renderer. His word is pretty high up there.
Thus solidifying my idea of using not a single asset from another person in my games that I create. It's going to be harder this way, but it's also going to allow my games to have one particular style across the whole thing.
We could make our own half life forget valve
Whoa, mind blowing indeed! I predicted that Dreams would change videogames forever. It will truly be an indie game for making indie games!
Its not an indie game, it's a long running well funded studio owned by Sony.
It's the exact opposite of an indie game.
You are right, it does not fit that definition of an indie game. My personal definition of indie game is an innovative game (uses new ideas, new engine or etc) and is made by a small team of developers.
It is a 3D platformer/creation game, just like littlebigplanet but even better
It’s also good for making shooter games and racing games and all kinds of games the only limit is your imagination
BECOMING WR you’re a liar and your lies and deceit and deception are not welcome here
And i suppose if you make something which someone uses in a game they sell you get your fair cut of the profit and MediaMolecule also deserves a cut. This way you can make money from creating anything in dreams. That is soo awesome
IMO this is a developer's Pipe Dream. Not going to happen. Too many legal and technical issues for this to ever happen with Dreams. However, a future incarnation of the game, if it proves popular, may be developed to be a game creation engine for commercial creation but I think there is zero chance that the PS4 game that is launching this year will let you make commercial games. That said, you could use Dreams as a prototype engine to make a concept which you could go on to build in Unity etc..
I agree, but personally I feel that mainly Legal issues rather than technical issues would be the problem.
"That said, you could use Dreams as a prototype engine to make a concept which you could go on to build in Unity etc.. "
That is EXACTLY why I'm so excited about this game. A great tool to make a prototype of a game.
Tech issues, yeah. Don't think any legal issues that can't be tosd out with Eula
Hey, they're doing it with RPG Maker.
I'm so hyped for this game my stomach hurts :)
This game is revolutionary, really.
It's so amazing, I cannot wait to finally play it.
isn't the entire philosophy of dreams to play create and share. The way the devs described this game was if you were a character designer but couldn't craft worlds, you could borrow assets from other players to create worlds, for example sackboy1 may have created a detailed tree model, and sackboy5 may have animated water for a river or a stream, and sackboy17 may have composed a song that fits the mood of the scene.
I feel like the community would be oriented towards a mindset of not wanting to share assets and develop stricter behaviour to protect intellectual property if this were to happen. Since this is a spiritual successor to LBP, when you take into consideration the type of game lbp was, this might not be a good idea for the community.
But I also understand the point of wanting to own work and not wanting to share it, if I created music, I would want to share it, but would like people to credit, I could see another music creator wanting to protect their creations.
I feel like a good way to do this is to have a promotion program from MM. So what that would involve is a situation where certain levels that are published get MM picks (like LBP) and ones that are substantial enough to meet the criteria for PlayStation Network certification are then basically given a green light, and the creators are then given the opportunity to then publish the game on the PlayStation store. MM could have a sponsored dreams program that rewards skilled members of the community.
Because obviously due to how certification works, not everything can just end up on the store. The PS Store isn't a medium where people can freely, independently publish games whenever they feel like it, and it's not really within the realms of MM's jurisdiction to grant players the right to do it. It would have to be an assisted program where Media Molecule perhaps publish special community created levels as DLC or independent games. MM also have to consider how it affects them as a company if they allow someone to publish something that hasn't been tested properly, or if it uses replications of assets from another game. So there would have to be strict moderation if a program like this were to exist.
PlayStation store is very different to steam, it's not a simple case of developers building something in the unity or unreal engine and publishing it to steam. There is an application and certification process and a lot of legal stuff that MM would have to sort out.
Not to mention this would have to be entirely dependent on the requirement that the assets being used have not been taken from another player or edited from a foundation created by another player unless collaborators were included in the cut.
Makes me wonder how payment would be split up between the different devs involved on any given project, whether you're an artist, composer, level designer, story writer, etc.
If Media Molecule has some path to getting your game onto the PS Store directly from Dreams, they could make sure the payment is distributed among the people who contributed automatically based on size of contribution.
I have been advocating that it would be beneficial to Mm, Dreams, and Sony if finished player created experiences could be brought out of the suite altogether and offered/sold directly from the Sony play store or even better yet a dedicated icon on the PS4 UI. The backend minus creation suite could be preloaded already on the console. This would be an easy access point for those that no nothing about dreams or don't think they have any interest in the creation side of things. This would also be extra revenue coming in from players that won't be buying the game right out. Learning that these little experiences where all made in Dreams through playing them without first purchasing the full suite could generate even more interest in the full suite. File sizes are pretty small as it is so that wouldn't be an issue. Each game would not need to also include the entire back end being a separate entity they launch from. The back end only needs to be downloaded and installed once.
This is Really AWSOME, thanks for the video and, if I ever make a Dream that good I think I'll just let it be free for all players :).
I read about this in Edge. This is easily the most interesting thing from the article. Imagine being able to make games and publish them. We could be competing with AAA devs ourselves.
sackchief I don't know, I'd say confirmed VR details in the article was more exciting for me.
It will also create game testing jobs which is 1 of the best jobs you can get. Obviously you will need to pay a game tester to test for bugs and to make sure the game is worthy of charging money for so people will be getting paid to make or test games. Good news all around
No it wont. The community, people playing dreams will be the testers. Every game made by someone buying the game will be available on Dreams, like LBP. 99%will be shit like LBP Did LBP creators hire game testers? No. Will Dream creators hire game tester? oh hell no.
Your logic makes no sence. If the community tests the game then you won't make sales because everyone has already played it for free. And random people are not legit game testers they won't do the boring things that game testers do to find all the bugs/issues in the game. You need proper game testers to make sure your game is worthy of charging money and ready to go. Having to pay to get your game tested will be worth it even for the feedback if your game is rejected so you know what to work on and paying to get your game tested will stop people trying to get their trash games tested so game testers won't be wasting their time with BS
There are no game testers in lbp because it's completely different. You can't sell your games on lbp and their are no game testers willing to test games properly for free
Lets say you pay a game tester $100 (i'm in NZ so that will be about $70 American dollars) this buys your game 1 hour of testing. If the tester figures your game is too trash early on in testing he can stop without further testing and give you a warning. This gives you a 1 month ban from being able to get a game tested after that month is up you can get 1 game tested free of charge but you only get 1 warning. If the tester likes your game after the hour is up the rest of the game will get tested for free and since mediamolecule gets a percentage of the profit it would be well worth it for them. If the game tester likes your game but due to bugs/issues they will not let you sell your game they will give you feedback of everything that's wrong in your game and once you go fix those issues they will sell your game (no need to re-pay game tester in this scenario). So it will be cheap to get your game tested professionaly. The game testers will be well paid aswel as the developers at mediamolecule. People get good feedback. And testers won't waste time testing trash games because it costs money to get a game tested
I think you maybe can publish a demo of the game. For example if you have many game modes, only one game mode with 5 levels are available. Then people can try the game before they buy the whole game. It would be much better, because I like to try before buying. And I think many people are agreed. :)
That sounds great for the guys working on "Europa" and the "Forest". I hope they can get a slice of this if they make it good as they intend.
Small games perhaps. The limits are starting to show though not cemented. I was keeping what I thought those limits might be fairly conservative but it is starting to look like those limits will be even more restrictive than I imagined. Sure there are tricks we can use to do more more even so for full games that aren't short little things count on things being as simple and basic as absolutely possible and perhaps even more watered down than even that to pull a vision off. Dreams is meant to be sketchbook for ideas a way to quickly test concepts. Keeping object resolution (looseness) as low as you can and the number of unique objects with little detail as low as possible in order to have larger areas with many things going on will be key along with tricks to load into new area like going through a tunnel or something. But the amount of data that can be transferred from one load to another is going to be quite limited as well or so it would seem. We'll be able to create very cool and interesting things and no one was expecting The Witcher III level of detail and scale Even pulling off Ocarina of time detail and scale will probably be too grand. The games we've seen with decent amounts of detail or the appearance of it are actually quite small in scale. I'm just not sure we'll be able to pull off games grand enough to stand on their own. It'll be interesting to see. Look at the house that was recently created. That one asset with no details that was essentially drafting of a structure took up nearly the entire meter. After loosening the resolution up on the whole thing as far as I would want to take it and not give a phantom like appearance to it that one asset still took up a rather significant chuck on the thermo. Again with no details. Had it all been made from just a couple of pieces repeated it would be even lower but it was super basic as it was. And constraint yourself to so few assets is going to make some super basic game world. That is a tactic in game design to do just that but it is even more significant than even I was imagining is my point. The game is designed to keep multiple games preloaded for quickly moving on to another and maintaining fast downloads. This takes away resources that could be available for each game as well.
Psh.....
We could all get together and create the biggest, best game(s) every but we have to get money involved...*sigh
I hope they let you bring in motion capture for animation, like modern games and CPi uses
Great video & an interesting topic. Every time I see more about this game, it makes me very happy. Thanks for sharing!
Well you can export the game you make in dreams to unity or unreal engine already....so this is very possible, this is big .
Wow that's very interesting. I was actually thinking about that the other day. Do you think you can try to find out if implementing something like structure destruction physics in the game? If so the pssoibilities are endless. I'm also wondering if it would be possible to create an RTS game out of Dreams. Hmmm.
This game will change everything and I'm so ready.
That’s kinda scary, LBP 1 & 2 has levels that were on par with the campaigns, but they didn’t cost money. If people are greedy, they might make game that cost too much. It’s just not my thing, not yet, I’ll have to look more into it.
Mark healy is actually the *creative director*
I know this is kind off the topic from the video but you said you can import music into your level? Like I can put any mp3 file into the game?
bluefalcon99 you will be able to upload any MP3 into a game. But if it's a licensed track and you publish it, it will most likely get taken down and you may lose your MP3 uploading privilege's. It's what Siobhan Reddy wrote in the the edge magazine.
Swickful oh okay. Thanks for the reply! Still awesome though because my brother likes to make music on the computer and I can use his tracks if I want because they're not licensed in any way. Just need his "okay" lol
Well i already emailed them about this last year but they didn't respond, so i don't think it's happening.
Too bad cause it seems like an extremely capable and intuitive engine.
Condemned Criminal Origins and Tranzit Remastered, here I come!!!
Selling stuff in game would be nice aswell, itd allow people to have more incentive to spend a lot of time on a game.
Oh whoa that’s awesome and means my hobby is now a career
I wonder if u can overlap voice recordings without it interrupting the other. Cause lbp doesn't allow to do that
are you gonna make animations on there like you do on lbp
You don't "Sell" your games on dreams. As the dev member said in a Q&A, "Its a hippie community of creativity sharing, man."
In other words, you can't make money off Dreams, BUT, you can possibly design your own art within dreams for shirts which you can sell, but even that I'm not so sure.
The only way to make money off Dreams is with Patreon.
You cant make money off a game with another game
Question for anybody who can answer this regarding this topic. Okay so. Say I make a story line game and I'm allowed to sell it in the PSN store. Does Sony have full rights to my story? Because I plan to put a story I'm working on in real life into Dreams and I plan to publish it in the future but would I even be allowed to publish it in book form?
Read the ps4dreams Reddit thread about the current TOS regarding ugc. It's pretty thorough. Highly recommended reading, hopefully it will change
You have two years left with the PS4, this isn't going to happen. Besides, there are many legal issues to be overcome as well.
The real question is, will there be a thermometer!
Haxorzilla129 yes but is pretty big. Dont get to crazy is always better to link levels ;)
I think we ALL are selling our dream
Uhhhh i don't like the idea of selling your creation from dreams. It ruins the create and share concept of the game. But thats only my opinion
We are ALL one dev team in dreams! Why can't people understand this kind of concept?!
We are ALL one co-op and one business in society as well...but people just can't stop chasing personal cash...
I'm sorry if some of us need money to live
I apologise for everyone who wants to do what they love (in this case making games) for a living instead of having a shitty job they hate and only being able to work on the games they love 2 hours a week on sunday, that's much better
Hell yea
Hmm interesting
I really hope people won't milk the Jeff the Killer levels like in LBP...
i dont mind having a a jeff the killer level on dreams but i just dont want others to keep on spamming it when its already bin done
Halix1sh0T get out of my kitchen
r322c videos I just hope people don’t spam FNAF. They ruined all of Steam’s workshops with that crap.
You realise game engines don't cost a load of money right? You can download Unreal, unity etc etc all for free and make your own games today...
True, but you need their professional subscriptions in order to publish games to something like PS4. Dreams could change that.
Yeah you're right, then you have to learn how to model, animate, record sound, dialogue, create music, oh and code, code, code....
The learning curve is huge, and massively overwhelming for someone with no experience.
To make a decent game by yourself would take hundreds of hours, if not thousands.
With dreams, all the tools are there, all the coding is done, you simply create.
Sure there'll be a learning curve as well, but not nearly as much as starting from scratch.
This is a revolutionary game, offering possibilities to gamers that have never been offered before.