Can you consider doing a short video on understanding slurs? How to think about them and how they apply to the playing technique of different instruments? It's something I don't really understand. I know I should be marking them in my scores but I don't know which notes should be slurred and which ones shouldn't be. How long they should be and how they should be grouped. Thanks.
OrchestrationOnline In performance, of course. I think maybe it's because the musicians I work with are used to reading modern music, that they abandoned the "one bar sets the example" convention.
0:00 OrchestrationOnline on Patreon 0:13 Title 0:27 *Should I mark all the articulations in every bar of my score and parts?* 0:44 Clear ≠ Detailed 1:26 Playback & Mockup Demos 2:09 Ignorance & Time Pressure 2:38 Mark all mixed and non-continuous articulations. 3:03 Don't disconnect the player from the music. 3:52 *sempre & norm.* 4:36 In Sibelius 5:13 *Example:* Inherent to the Character of the Music 6:09 *Example:* Inconsistency 6:48 *Example:* Sempre Ended by Rest 7:10 Anxiety about Losing Control 7:36 Outro 7:50 Patrons & Credits
Excellent discussion in regards to articulations! I never realized how deep this simple musical concept can be until now! Off topic, but NotePerformer 3 was just released for Sibelius. Have you considered giving it a shot, and possibly giving a review for the software?
Nice video. Is the "sempre" notation under a measure the same as the "simile" after the measure? Would you say that this notation after the staccatos, at the beginning of the video, is also unnecessary?
People have asked several times about this. Everyone has their own style. I see "sempre" used after expression text more often than "sim." I see "sim." used more for techniques - like changing back and forth from divisi to unison with every multiple pitch. But there's no hard and fast rule.
Do you think that it is worth it to leave out information in relation to people who might read or interpret the music hundreds of years later? It seems to me removing information is a great way to have something mis interpreted pieces later on when times change. For example what if i write a passage and you would think it continues with staccato, but it actually doesnt?
You can't worry about things like that at the expense of today's performers, Carl. All you have to do is find out what the druthers are of the people you are working with right now. That is the level of craft that makes you a professional. If a culture of performance is maintained into the distant future, then you have to assume that people will realise through context such a simple thing as maintaining an articulation style, especially when most likely the music will be practically shouting that it's needed by the very way that it's scored, markings or not.
Do you know why the excerpt at 3:35 sounds a half tone flat, but the one at 5:53 doesn't? I've noticed that many recordings of Baroque and Classical music sound a half tone lower than the score for some reason.
A = 440 Hz is a fairly recent innovation as a standard for Western music (20th century, with 435Hz fairly widely adopted in the late 19th century). A lot of Renaissance, baroque and classical music were tuned differently. The exact tuning point will depend on period and location, as it was not standardised, but A=415Hz is commonly cited for baroque-this is about a semitone lower than 440Hz. Period performances of works from these periods try to reproduce the music as it would have been heard in that period-using instruments, techniques and interpretations similar or identical to that of the period-and this includes the choice of tuning.
If you mark your scores in the most dependably professional way, then they will be appreciated by professional musicians AND amateurs/students who are learning to understand orchestral parts that are scored in the way that I recommend. You can't justify scoring things otherwise by not wanting to "restrict" yourself to "professional musicians." Amateur and semipro musicians may also find over-marking of articulations tiresome after a while. And they are very likely to understand the context of the music, as continuing an articulation style is a very basic concept for ensemble players on concert and band instruments. Don't be afraid, just score it the right way.
This is outdated already. Standard advice from music engravers is to mark each note appropriately. This is especially true for music to be recorded in the studio. You need to see the articulations in every bar in case you start there on another take; having it half a page ago risks ruining the take.
That's how some interpret it. The pendulum is starting to swing the other way, that's for sure - especially as more and more arrangers and orchestrators start relying on their notation app playback for mockups. But we aren't at the "outdated" stage yet, my friend.
@Kastchei Totally agree with you. I am a classically trained pianist, now arranging for pro orchestras. Relying on context and style for well established works would make sense, but for entirely new scores, the players most often have no idea how the music sounds like beyond their own part. Many of them don't listen to the mockups even when provided to them. I have learnt not to depend on their intuition and mark EVERYTHING meticulously. Otherwise it would just create unnecessary burden on the conductor, needing to clarify what should have been clearly notated in the first place.
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Thomas: I have always written "simile" or "sim." instead. of "sempre". Has there been a change in convention here?
i think sempre is usually used for dynamics and simile is used for articulations and pedals
Also, sempre means “always,”so logically speaking you would only use sempre until the end of the piece/movement.
Can you consider doing a short video on understanding slurs? How to think about them and how they apply to the playing technique of different instruments? It's something I don't really understand. I know I should be marking them in my scores but I don't know which notes should be slurred and which ones shouldn't be. How long they should be and how they should be grouped. Thanks.
I deliberately mark articulation for one measure only, and yes, it gets executed by the musicians for one measure only.
In notation app playback, or in performance? If the latter, then your musicians are the ones with the problem and not your score. :)
OrchestrationOnline In performance, of course. I think maybe it's because the musicians I work with are used to reading modern music, that they abandoned the "one bar sets the example" convention.
Experienced professional concert musicians should follow this universal standard.
Very useful information. Thank you so much.
0:00 OrchestrationOnline on Patreon
0:13 Title
0:27 *Should I mark all the articulations in every bar of my score and parts?*
0:44 Clear ≠ Detailed
1:26 Playback & Mockup Demos
2:09 Ignorance & Time Pressure
2:38 Mark all mixed and non-continuous articulations.
3:03 Don't disconnect the player from the music.
3:52 *sempre & norm.*
4:36 In Sibelius
5:13 *Example:* Inherent to the Character of the Music
6:09 *Example:* Inconsistency
6:48 *Example:* Sempre Ended by Rest
7:10 Anxiety about Losing Control
7:36 Outro
7:50 Patrons & Credits
Excellent discussion in regards to articulations! I never realized how deep this simple musical concept can be until now!
Off topic, but NotePerformer 3 was just released for Sibelius. Have you considered giving it a shot, and possibly giving a review for the software?
Thank you for the information! I've never even imagined that!
Two videos in one week!!!
Nice
I'll make that 3 in a couple days. 6 on Patreon.
Nice video. Is the "sempre" notation under a measure the same as the "simile" after the measure? Would you say that this notation after the staccatos, at the beginning of the video, is also unnecessary?
People have asked several times about this. Everyone has their own style. I see "sempre" used after expression text more often than "sim." I see "sim." used more for techniques - like changing back and forth from divisi to unison with every multiple pitch. But there's no hard and fast rule.
It makes sense, thanks for the answer.
Gracias profesor!
is it Really that distracting? if a player thinks the composer is being condescending, this would be the players perception and nothing more.
You'll see when you get to the pro level as a concert musician and play your 300th score like that. Yes, it is distracting and unnecessary.
Do you think that it is worth it to leave out information in relation to people who might read or interpret the music hundreds of years later? It seems to me removing information is a great way to have something mis interpreted pieces later on when times change. For example what if i write a passage and you would think it continues with staccato, but it actually doesnt?
You can't worry about things like that at the expense of today's performers, Carl. All you have to do is find out what the druthers are of the people you are working with right now. That is the level of craft that makes you a professional. If a culture of performance is maintained into the distant future, then you have to assume that people will realise through context such a simple thing as maintaining an articulation style, especially when most likely the music will be practically shouting that it's needed by the very way that it's scored, markings or not.
That is great!
whats the symphony? he said michael haydn - symphony 18, finale; but somehow i can't find it anywhere. Can someone help me. It is a beautiful piece!!
IMSLP dot org, Max.
Do you know why the excerpt at 3:35 sounds a half tone flat, but the one at 5:53 doesn't? I've noticed that many recordings of Baroque and Classical music sound a half tone lower than the score for some reason.
A = 440 Hz is a fairly recent innovation as a standard for Western music (20th century, with 435Hz fairly widely adopted in the late 19th century). A lot of Renaissance, baroque and classical music were tuned differently. The exact tuning point will depend on period and location, as it was not standardised, but A=415Hz is commonly cited for baroque-this is about a semitone lower than 440Hz.
Period performances of works from these periods try to reproduce the music as it would have been heard in that period-using instruments, techniques and interpretations similar or identical to that of the period-and this includes the choice of tuning.
what if you only want one bar to be staccato and the rest to be legato? then if you write 1 bar of staccato, then they will think it’s all staccato?
Then you mark the next bar "legato."
oh k
The most annoying thing about score software, in playback, is that dots etc are very hard to communicate in a nuanced way.
I don't want my scores to be restricted specifically to professional musicians who are also irratable
If you mark your scores in the most dependably professional way, then they will be appreciated by professional musicians AND amateurs/students who are learning to understand orchestral parts that are scored in the way that I recommend. You can't justify scoring things otherwise by not wanting to "restrict" yourself to "professional musicians." Amateur and semipro musicians may also find over-marking of articulations tiresome after a while. And they are very likely to understand the context of the music, as continuing an articulation style is a very basic concept for ensemble players on concert and band instruments. Don't be afraid, just score it the right way.
This is outdated already. Standard advice from music engravers is to mark each note appropriately. This is especially true for music to be recorded in the studio. You need to see the articulations in every bar in case you start there on another take; having it half a page ago risks ruining the take.
That's how some interpret it. The pendulum is starting to swing the other way, that's for sure - especially as more and more arrangers and orchestrators start relying on their notation app playback for mockups. But we aren't at the "outdated" stage yet, my friend.
@Kastchei Totally agree with you. I am a classically trained pianist, now arranging for pro orchestras. Relying on context and style for well established works would make sense, but for entirely new scores, the players most often have no idea how the music sounds like beyond their own part. Many of them don't listen to the mockups even when provided to them. I have learnt not to depend on their intuition and mark EVERYTHING meticulously. Otherwise it would just create unnecessary burden on the conductor, needing to clarify what should have been clearly notated in the first place.
Michael Haydn? :D
Yes, Michael (not Joseph) Haydn. He was the younger brother, and court composer in Salzburg when Mozart was a child.
OrchestrationOnline and he's pronounced like mee(c)haeil in german
Ich weiss! Verschwenden wir keine Zeit mit der Aussprache, bitte.
OrchestrationOnline hahaha gerne
:)