i think one slash and cast build not mentioned (because it isn't techinically spellcasting - but kinda mimics the aesthetic) is Thaumaturge with the wand implement. They can do great damage as the wand is essentially a cantrip that can do D6's and once you reach level 7 the implement power increases to add more damage and extra abilities like making enemies flatfooted which makes your attacks more likely to hit and is one of the rare ways to make enemies flatfooted to ranged attacks. I think comboing wand with a weapon attack (ranged or melee both work) can output pretty darn good damage. The issue is with the action economy so I would suggest a possible ranged weapon like air repeater or repeating hand crossbow and a wand in your hand so you don't have to chase down enemies. This build can actually put out darn good damage - but would need professor Crunch McDabbles level of crunching to get to the nitty gritty to confirm that .
Currently playing a combat grab fighter in a certain undead-centric adventure, I picked up primal sorcerer dedication for electric arc and disrupt undead. The amount of times that disrupt undead has saved me from becoming irrelevant is insane. Shadows in particular would basically render me impotent without it.
One thing you could add to these builds are Spellhearts. They give you an additional cantrip and extra damage to your Strike after you used the Spellheart cantrip until the end of your NEXT turn.
Tempest Surge is such a fantastic focus spell. It would be a great one to use before your strike since it can leave the target Clumsy 2, setting you up for a soft AC.
Ohh, for a Barbarian slash-and-cast, I’m surprised you didn’t suggest this combo: Barbarian + Summoner Dedication (Fey eidolon). The eidolon can perform the casting for the Barbarian without needing the Barbarian to use Moment of Clarity. Only downside, you don’t get spellcasting proficiency until lvl. 6 when you grab the basic bounded spellcasting feat. And you get eidolon spellcasting at 4, which will be Untrained proficiency unless you grab an ancestry/heritage feat granting you innate spellcasting. BUT, once you get all these things, the Barbarian can cast Electric Arc and smash at the same time! And other eidolon options offer some useful utility cantrips the Barbarian can use (such as Forbidding Ward the barbarian since they can’t use the shield spell or shields if they’re 2-handed, or using Guidance as a 3rd action when normally it would be 2-actions with Moment of Clarity).
I used a bit of that on my first Character, a hobgoblin Aberation Sorceress with a golem grafter dedication. First hit 'em with your "Accursed Clay Fist" with reach to debuff the enemy against curses, then curse them into vegetables. Next round use "bespell weapons" and do it again with the next target, while your Barbarian facerolls through your last victim.
But lord crunch, champion can take deity domain to get a built in focus spell at level 1. Also thamaturge with scroll thamaturgy uses his class dc for the scroll he uses. This will work well with innate spells even I they do not go above trained. I get the feeling weapon storm will grant weakness and implements impowerment damage. Also spiritual weapon let's the caster make a spell attack at range. After initial cast, one attack for a sustain action.
Small caveat that maybe find a different moniker for casters? Cause low level optimal caster builds are ones where you can easily spam a reload 0 ranged attack on top of your electric arc, like having bow proficiency or getting an air repeater (if you have simple weapon proficiency)
I don't believe innate spells will scale, even with a spellcasting class feature. I.E. A cleric getting electric arc from a background or heritage will still be casting that spell as trained, and still uses charisma for the modifier. A feat that implies/proves this point is the psychic feat that allows these innate spells to scale as a normal psychic modifier and expertise. Just a clarification as you cover this later in the video. Also love the alchemists recommendation. Looks like a cool build!
They do scale if they're of the same tradition. I think the psychic feat just lets you treat them as occult spells rather than whatever they are normally.
Both of the above comments are incorrect - your innate spells do, in fact, scale with your spellcasting class feature, even if they're of a different tradition. Per page 302 of the Core Rulebook: "You're always trained in spell attack rolls and spell DCs for your innate spells, even if you aren't otherwise trained in spell attack rolls or spell DCs. If your proficiency in spell attack rolls or spell DCs is expert or better, apply that proficiency to your innate spells, too. You use your Charisma modifier as your spellcasting ability modifier for innate spells unless otherwise specified."
That damage is a little misleading because it doesn't take into account the paladin's retributive strike reaction which is going to basically double the weapon's average damage amount on rounds when you can get it to go off. So in that sense, taking ranged reprisals so you are even more likely to use it is going to increase your damage output. For me, with a paladin, I'd just grab a two hand weapon and call it good. Maybe archetyping into a ranger and taking twin takedown gives you a nice single action with two strikes, but you are still spending an action setting your hunt prey to set the attack up AND your retributive strikes are then made with a one handed weapon and less effective (damage wise). Maybe spend that free archetype feat on better spellcasting like a sorcerer dedication and go angelic bloodline or even better, psychic and take that free focus point and use it to cast lay on hands a second time.
Paladin with sorcerer's archetype seems like good idea thanks. Psychic dedication I don't really want at least for now, cause my other party member going to be Psychic. Maybe later I can learn smth from him. What about Cleric with Paladin archetype? It will get champion reaction only at 6th, but it's still isn't that late. I can even be Cloistered one, cause paladin will give me armor soon enough. I'd get domain initiate then, and can get Weapon Surge, like yours Champion of Ragathiel build. And then on 2nd get blessed one dedication for two focus points and lay on hands and I'm kinda already Paladin while being cleric? I'll have channel smite later, and even haste thanks to Ragathiel spells.
I will say that the "strike + cantrip" plan falls off at higher levels, just because cantrip damage scales poorly. It's always nice to have access to wands and scrolls, though.
I'm a simple man. I see Crunch McDabbles in my feed, I click play!
We are hungry and chef crunch is delivering.
^^^>>> passes out toothpicks
Ooh that's a good combo for the Alchemist, and a pretty decent way to exploit the Splash damage too.
"Oh Hi crunch mcdabbles" meme
i think one slash and cast build not mentioned (because it isn't techinically spellcasting - but kinda mimics the aesthetic) is Thaumaturge with the wand implement. They can do great damage as the wand is essentially a cantrip that can do D6's and once you reach level 7 the implement power increases to add more damage and extra abilities like making enemies flatfooted which makes your attacks more likely to hit and is one of the rare ways to make enemies flatfooted to ranged attacks. I think comboing wand with a weapon attack (ranged or melee both work) can output pretty darn good damage. The issue is with the action economy so I would suggest a possible ranged weapon like air repeater or repeating hand crossbow and a wand in your hand so you don't have to chase down enemies. This build can actually put out darn good damage - but would need professor Crunch McDabbles level of crunching to get to the nitty gritty to confirm that .
Currently playing a combat grab fighter in a certain undead-centric adventure, I picked up primal sorcerer dedication for electric arc and disrupt undead. The amount of times that disrupt undead has saved me from becoming irrelevant is insane. Shadows in particular would basically render me impotent without it.
One thing you could add to these builds are Spellhearts. They give you an additional cantrip and extra damage to your Strike after you used the Spellheart cantrip until the end of your NEXT turn.
HEY! Welcome back!!!! I'm thrilled to see another video from you! :)
Tempest Surge is such a fantastic focus spell. It would be a great one to use before your strike since it can leave the target Clumsy 2, setting you up for a soft AC.
Ohh, for a Barbarian slash-and-cast, I’m surprised you didn’t suggest this combo:
Barbarian + Summoner Dedication (Fey eidolon).
The eidolon can perform the casting for the Barbarian without needing the Barbarian to use Moment of Clarity.
Only downside, you don’t get spellcasting proficiency until lvl. 6 when you grab the basic bounded spellcasting feat. And you get eidolon spellcasting at 4, which will be Untrained proficiency unless you grab an ancestry/heritage feat granting you innate spellcasting.
BUT, once you get all these things, the Barbarian can cast Electric Arc and smash at the same time!
And other eidolon options offer some useful utility cantrips the Barbarian can use (such as Forbidding Ward the barbarian since they can’t use the shield spell or shields if they’re 2-handed, or using Guidance as a 3rd action when normally it would be 2-actions with Moment of Clarity).
that is genius!
Thanks for the upload. I've been playing since playtest and I'm always surprised how this channel keeps teaching me new things.
I used a bit of that on my first Character, a hobgoblin Aberation Sorceress with a golem grafter dedication. First hit 'em with your "Accursed Clay Fist" with reach to debuff the enemy against curses, then curse them into vegetables. Next round use "bespell weapons" and do it again with the next target, while your Barbarian facerolls through your last victim.
Comment for the algorithm. Love your content Crunch
That Alchemist/Witch/Oracle build is really on fire!
BEST PF2e TH-cam content, bar none.
Excellent video, very informative!
Wonderful video!
A melee character using a longsword has _a pretty sharp decline_
I see what you did there!
But lord crunch, champion can take deity domain to get a built in focus spell at level 1.
Also thamaturge with scroll thamaturgy uses his class dc for the scroll he uses. This will work well with innate spells even I they do not go above trained. I get the feeling weapon storm will grant weakness and implements impowerment damage.
Also spiritual weapon let's the caster make a spell attack at range. After initial cast, one attack for a sustain action.
I would love to see more details about that tempest barbarian build 0_0
I'm a simple man. I see Crunch and I McDabbles. Wait...
Love me some Crunch McD!
McDabbles…… where is the ULTIMATE wizard build video?
Haha, yea I play an ancient elf universalist wizard plus fighter and I love hurling my maul at people's faces
A truly stupendous video! But what’s the final build’s average damage compared to the others? Did I miss it?
Small caveat that maybe find a different moniker for casters? Cause low level optimal caster builds are ones where you can easily spam a reload 0 ranged attack on top of your electric arc, like having bow proficiency or getting an air repeater (if you have simple weapon proficiency)
I don't believe innate spells will scale, even with a spellcasting class feature. I.E. A cleric getting electric arc from a background or heritage will still be casting that spell as trained, and still uses charisma for the modifier. A feat that implies/proves this point is the psychic feat that allows these innate spells to scale as a normal psychic modifier and expertise.
Just a clarification as you cover this later in the video. Also love the alchemists recommendation. Looks like a cool build!
They do scale if they're of the same tradition. I think the psychic feat just lets you treat them as occult spells rather than whatever they are normally.
Both of the above comments are incorrect - your innate spells do, in fact, scale with your spellcasting class feature, even if they're of a different tradition.
Per page 302 of the Core Rulebook: "You're always trained in spell attack rolls and spell DCs for your innate spells, even if you aren't otherwise trained in spell attack rolls or spell DCs. If your proficiency in spell attack rolls or spell DCs is expert or better, apply that proficiency to your innate spells, too. You use your Charisma modifier as your spellcasting ability modifier for innate spells unless otherwise specified."
Cant we make paladin a bit better damage wise? If our tabpe uses free archetype rule?
That damage is a little misleading because it doesn't take into account the paladin's retributive strike reaction which is going to basically double the weapon's average damage amount on rounds when you can get it to go off. So in that sense, taking ranged reprisals so you are even more likely to use it is going to increase your damage output. For me, with a paladin, I'd just grab a two hand weapon and call it good. Maybe archetyping into a ranger and taking twin takedown gives you a nice single action with two strikes, but you are still spending an action setting your hunt prey to set the attack up AND your retributive strikes are then made with a one handed weapon and less effective (damage wise). Maybe spend that free archetype feat on better spellcasting like a sorcerer dedication and go angelic bloodline or even better, psychic and take that free focus point and use it to cast lay on hands a second time.
Paladin with sorcerer's archetype seems like good idea thanks. Psychic dedication I don't really want at least for now, cause my other party member going to be Psychic. Maybe later I can learn smth from him.
What about Cleric with Paladin archetype? It will get champion reaction only at 6th, but it's still isn't that late. I can even be Cloistered one, cause paladin will give me armor soon enough. I'd get domain initiate then, and can get Weapon Surge, like yours Champion of Ragathiel build. And then on 2nd get blessed one dedication for two focus points and lay on hands and I'm kinda already Paladin while being cleric? I'll have channel smite later, and even haste thanks to Ragathiel spells.
I will say that the "strike + cantrip" plan falls off at higher levels, just because cantrip damage scales poorly. It's always nice to have access to wands and scrolls, though.
That's definitely where the Summoner & Magus come in. They built for this