Our Thoughts on Helix vs ToneMaster Pro
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ต.ค. 2023
- Full Episode Here: • TONEMASTER PRO + "Reme...
The Honey Moon is over we have been playing the Tone Master Pro extensively, as well as pairing it against the Helix. After a little more than a week this is what we think of the ToneMaster Pro vs the Helix.
Check us out: tonejunkiestore.com
I still want the Tonemaster regardless of the lack of other amps being released at launch. Its such a slick unit.
I have it and I love it. I don’t need 2000 amps. I need a few that sound really good and aren’t hard to tweak. I’m hoping fender just keeps up with updates
Gigged a Kemper for 3 years, Helix HX Stomp for 1 year. Picked up a TM Pro to try out and am impressed with these things:
1. Form factor: Not too big or too small. Fits in small area, but still has large/bright/visible scribble strips.
2. Inputs/Outputs: has all the ins and outs and can be split into two discreet paths (2 amps + 2 guitar inputs) all controlled by Midi (bluetooth).
3. Navigation and live editing is a snap with big chunky buttons, a dazzling touch screen and switches turned into encoders.
4. Basic tones are great. Do we really need 1000 amps? I end up just using 1-3 favorites all the time.
5. Out of the Box has enough good dialed up patches to run to a gig with a brand new unit (you will be fine). Song/Setlist Mode is great for tweakers.
Cons
I wish it had a few more effects ... a drop tuning effect, envelope filter, auto wah, etc.
All of these multi effect amp modelers have strengths and weaknesses.
Bottom line .. Fender has put out a very good sounding, musical product that (time will tell) appears to be pro gig worthy.
It would be sooooooo cool if you do a comparison video of the tone master fr-12 cab compared to some other fr cabs.
I’d like to see a review of the Cab. As a helix/Quad Cortex user I’ve really wanted to get a cab. Would this fender cab be a good fit helix/QC guy? Or is another cab a better option?
Three gigs in now on the TMP now. It has displaced all of my HX products for live use and is more enjoyable to use for me than the Fractal and Kemper products I've used in the past. I think Fender knocked it out of the park with this thing. But time will tell.
Agreed! I’m really digging it so far
I switched from Helix Floor to Quad Cortex. It's 100% a big improvement. The workflow is much better. The factory presets are usable. It's easier to build a good sounding patch. Helix has the edge on several fronts, and guys like John Cordy can make the HX Stomp sound just as good as any modeller. But dang the effort and knowledge to get there are extensive! I think the QC sits between the Helix and the TMP in terms of tone shaping options, with Helix having the most. I'd recommend the TMP to ANY first time modeller owners because the learning curve is the lowest, and the tones are great. But I bought the QC over TMP because Helix forced me to learn so much that QC was a breeze to adapt to! The ONLY thing that made me consider the TMP over QC is the INSTANT preset switching! That is SO COOL! Makes programming even easier!!! In QC, you have even more control of independently adjusting parameters between snapshots/scenes than the Helix. TOTAL and EASY control. But that takes more programming time than just making a preset for each sound and throwing snapshots out the window! Absolutely awesome. It's a beautiful world where you can't make a bad choice! I'll stop ranting... a little looped up on the goodies after a mild surgery this morning.
I love my Kemper, but I have been using the TMP a lot lately because it’s just a lot of fun. I have so many great Kemper profiles that I can’t decide which one to use. I just play and don’t think. I’m playing more every day because I don’t have option paralysis
Not even on the radar for me. Nope never.
not fractal level.
As a 4-year Helix user, I want to want the TMP, but I use my helix for bass 55% of the time and just don't see the bass-specific amps listed for it... Everything else looks sooo goood.
Thanks for your honest assessments, though! So many videos of this thing feel 100% like promoted content, so it's nice to hear reasonable discussions about it.
couple questions - Shure55 as a hand-held? Windscreens on dynamics INSIDE? Cables hanging off stands... I guess you ARE guitar guys, not production guys...
I love Fender amps. No surprise that they’d nail them with this unit. Also no surprise that the higher gain amps, especially, would fall short. That’s never been their strength.
I love the Line 6 Matchless amps. And the Twin models are great, too. I think it helps to accept a concept of approximation to the real thing and then move from there to create a great sound.
Have owned a Helix, own a HW 64 DLX, Friedman Small Box and have owned dozens of popular tube amps. The TMP to me, sounds very organic (via TH-cam). I have heard some reviewers make the TMP/Helix/et al sound really good and really bad, but The TMP just sounds organic, or should I say less fakey than current modelers. Lastly, I wanna gag when people complain there isn't 100 amps and 200 fx. Give me 3-5 good amps any day rather han 500 average ones.
Exactly; when you play live, you do NOT want 25 different patches. You need like 4-5, that's it. Otherwise, you will suffer from the issue of "relative volumes" of patches and be programming it all night. Ask me how I know that??
I’m looking at the TMP because it looks simple. Too many options leads to analysis paralysis and you spend more time tweaking than playing
Great content. I have been gigging exclusively with a Helix since 2018 and done many many gigs since then. I would like to point out that although I am convinced newer units like a QC, TM or FM9 have better/different amp sounds, the useability and functionality of a modeller is equally important. A far as that AND having an all-in-one package (including the expression pedal and a great desktop editor) is concerned, the Helix is a well designed product and still suits my needs best. But I must confess that conclusion is a bit disappointing, because some of these units really sound great... 😅
Also, I'm ready for someone do sign a deal with Strymon to put it in the box.
Why is this super critical view of Fender for putting this out? Just enjoy it!
Are we really being that critical.... we said we think they are among the best models anyone has released and it feels like an amp. We said it was better than the Helix in a lot of ways.
subscription model for the upper end options...yeah not for me.
If you went the route of only having Fender amps, what would you do with pedals? Only Fender Pedals? Don't think that would work out too well.
I think that is where they at least need to put the popular basics in there like MXR phaser, Tube Screamer, Boss Chorus, etc.
Then have the option to purchase in the box favorites or just use the loops have to what you already
Is there a reason why you guys cut off the dude at the end?
I wonder why some folks in the video seem "hesitant" to want to gig this unit? I mean its new so its something else to get used to... but the learning curve seems really simplified and ease of use probably couldn't be at a lower entry point for those new to modeling units. I have experience with the Helix floor and the LT and the headrush Mx5 and when I think to their product releases vs. where they are now with dozens of firmware updates I think its fair to say Fender have started off very well and if we get another firmware update before Christmas its probably a big win imo.
I would love for them to launch a Princeton Reverb II (1982) handwired by Rivera …
My biggest concern is will Ibe able to easily use it? I cannot deal with sub menus and unless the box comes preloaded with sounds in a way that I can simply adjust front panel features, I can’t use it.
I have the Strymon Iridium and the Silvertone 1484 and they are the perfect UI for me.
However, in a forthcoming gigging situation, I will need to be able to quickly change preset grouped effects from one song to another and even within a song. So what should I do?
Trust me out of all the top modelers in this price range and category this is by far the most intuitive and easiest user interface ive ever used. You'll be playing more and not fiddling with controls as much trust me.
@@stringsattached67 thank you for taking the time to help me. The nearest I have come to an all in one solution, is the Morley but it doesn’t do presets. I’m an analogue guy in a digital world :)
@@LysanderLH me too and the fender TMP sounds and most importantly to me feels analog and sounds like a actual amplifier.
@@stringsattached67 i have a Tonemaster deluxe reverb, so presumably running the pro into a front input would be okay?
The freemium thing is a really valid point. But - it's already an expensive unit, more so than the Helix, which is its direct competition. And if they go down that route while Line6 are rolling out twice-yearly free updates with serious additions, it's going to make it a hard sell.
Granted, Spark do the same thing with their Jimi models... but a Spark Go is £120, not £1600.
I don’t know, I think if Fender had made it Fender amps only. All of them. Including stuff like Fender EVH amps etc. Tgat could be a special modeler. That’s a unique product with a definite market.
If you could only have one. Would you get the Fender tone master or the helix? Ease of use, sound quality or just overall more enjoyable
Helix. Not even a debate.
TMP
If we're talking new, I'd say neither and take an FM9.
Used, you can get a Helix floor for ~$1k.
7:19 I actually think this would be the smartest thing and what they should do. Make it just Fender and make it stupid good. I still think the price should be $1299 though. But having it just be all Fender amps and make them all great is the right thing. Then you aren’t just buying another typical modeler / pedal board like all the others. It would be unique. Then maybe you could add via the store “other” amps of your choice / taste but the core is Fender and their full collection done perfectly. Other amps and pedals you could maybe purchase but with all the loops you can simple add your favorite pedals in the mix easily if you already have them. For me it’s the amp sound that is the biggest deal.
Good idea!!!
Absolutely. Fender purists / enthusiasts would totally get on board with this! And after all - it IS a Fender product.
Business idea for Fender: do what Apple did with music and the iPod. Sell me a powerful and super intuitive piece of hardware. Then set up a virtual guitar store where users can buy legit licensed models of their favorite amps from Marshall, Mesa, Friedman, Diezel, Vox, Orange, etc. Do the same for speaker cabinets and for effect pedals. Sell them at a reasonable price. Let the end user load the gear they choose and purchase (I don’t need 1000 amps and cabs). Provide modeling services and support to amp and effects manufacturers through a network of content creators like you. Everyone is happy.
...Why do that when their competition will just update and add quality amps for free? With like what 26 amps in this thing, Fender is waaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy behind the 8 ball to even consider something like that.
I keep thinking what if they make a deal with Big pedal brand. MXR is now officially licensed! Could get pricey.
I have a Helix LT and a couple Variax guitars. I want to like the ToneMaster, but the Variax + Helix is an amazing pairing that has me locked into the Helix camp. I really wish Line 6/Yamaha would come out with an updated Variax and finally market the potential.
If you already have your sounds dialed in, there's no reason to switch to the ToneMaster (other than new toys are cool). I want to try the TMP myself. I recently switched from Helix Floor to the Quad Cortex and couldn't be happier, but I don't have a Variax and am always building new presets for new learned songs. I will say that in addition to the workflow in QC is far preferable to me than Helix, the QC hasn't made me fight the Fletcher-Munson Curve. I have NO IDEA why! But the presets I make at home through reference monitors translate very well to gig-level, where the Helix I had to tune the prest at gig levels, else the high-end became deadly and the low end got muddy. Maybe it's just my honeymoon phase.... Enjoy your LT! An AWESOME device that can sound just as good and has way more (and better) effects.
Pretty much in the same boat.
JTV69, Helix LT and Powercab+ pair.
O yeah .. that would rock
I want to hear a Bassbreaker profile vs a Marshall profile on it. I mean technically it seems like they could’ve got away with all Fender and got a good swath of tones. I mean there is an ac30 sound in Bassbreaker. The 30 MKII is high gain. They coulda tossed the machete on there🤷🏻♂️.
UA did a Deluxe only pedal for $400 and an AC30 for $400. So for $1600 you get a bunch of Fender amps from Fender? I would have been fine if it didn't have anything but fender in it if it's the best out there.
You get way more than amps too. You get everything. And “sound” is so subjective
1:05 Sounds like both fender and line 6 cater well to their respective target audiences. Although I think most fender guys would rather just have the actual amp if that’s what it feels like?
But the TMP feels like the actual Fender amp turned up to a volume that many can't do on stage anymore. The TMP provides the next best thing for those that have gigged Fender amps for years.
Fingers crossed Fender releases a Machete model for the Tone Master Pro!
The BE100 in the TMP actually has some gain.
Sweeeeeeeeeet!! Mine is on the way ...
Helix compressed the amp block does not feel reel. I tried helix helix lite and recent podgo with wireless. Returned or sold them all now kemper quad and fractal on high end great valet one gp200 best bang for buck and sounds great and nux teident sounds good . I buy all my gear so I am completely non biased and cannot be sued lol going today buy fender pro
I would like a preamp and power amp block someone can do this so you can just pick different preamps and power amps can select tubes diodes bias tube or solid state
I wonder who actually makes the unit for Fender
I'm pretty sure the engineer who made the Line 6 Helix left Line 6 and went to Fender and made this unit.
@@joshtrimble5517 Can this be confirmed? Do we know the engineers name?
If I had the money I'd buy it.Otherwise, Helix is fine for me.How you can get it to fit in your sound as a whole is all that matters.Having that ability.
It's songs and ears anyway.
I also love the GT1000 Core.
The crux is Fender's history of giving up on a product.
Right out of the box this thing has far better tones in the stock presets than anything Line 6 has to offer. I played one in a music store with the FR12 and was impressed. I tend to play more on the clean side so Fender tones work well for me. $1700 for great Fender tones plus effects is a great value if they keep up with the firmware updates and truly support this thing.
I'm REALLY kinda done with all the amp modeling thing everyone's been doing for the past 20 years. Would LOVE to see a company just spend time on making quality effects, great user interface, able to plug into everything and include some TUBES in it like Digitech did with the GSP2100 Series of Processors.
Well it turns out the preamp tube is minimally impactful on the "real" feel and sound. I had a GSP2101. I have a superchamp x2 which has digital preamp and tubes for power section and that is the important part. the superchamp sounds and feels so good. the power tubes is the key. I used to run my gsp into a peavey classic 60/60 rack mount tube amp. heavy AF but sounded sweet - especially through my 4x12 boogie : )
I have both.tone master IS more organic, much easier to usefor someone who IS not familiar with modeler .few amp but killer amps .for high gain EVH 5150 IS enormous!
Do a comparison for ToneMaster Pro and the FM3. Any guitar player can do a gig with the FM3.
Tonemaster Pro has very little to offer atm really. A good UI and some good sounding fender amps. The rest no not at all. The JCM800 and Mesa are both just bad. It offers far far less for the same price as other modelers. Less features / amps / no bass amps / no capture and for touting to be the most powerful struggles and crashes when loaded up.
Fender have nailed the tone of their own amps, but their emulations of (the very few) other manufacturers truly suck. Hopefully a firmware update is coming very soon....
I totally agree.
100%
The big question to me is, is the Fender worth 2X the cost of a Helix? I don't hear it.
Bingo!
Exactly. Me either. Not for almost 2 grand.
They are both $1699.
It’s not. It has the features of an LT and no dual paths. The LT has that and then some for 1199.
@@handyc77it has scribble strips like the full model and yes does dual paths. You are incorrect.
Id rather they had no other amps but instead every single fender imaginable.
Why the didn't do some halo models is beyond me... I find it odd that they did the EVH models but didn't do what is arguably the best dirty Fender amp they've ever made (and the namesake for the entire series) the Fender Tone Master! It's not like they are avoiding the Zinky era.
Still waiting for the TM vs Kemper...
On the to-do list!
I would’ve been happy if the TMP just had the models from their existing Tone Master line. Basically, I just want the same features as the Simplifier but with the Tone Master models. (Or if they put an effects loop and headphone out on the Tone Master amps, I might actually get one of those, though I don’t want my amp model trapped in a speaker cabinet.) But when you say that it feels more like playing an amp rather than a “finished tone”, that worries me. I’ve always wanted the produced “on the record” tone rather than an “amp in a room” feel.
I agree. I would rather use the Headrush Prime. It's easy to use and the editor is cool!
Need to check out that editor
My thoughts on the unit:
I like it a lot because of the screen and ease of use. You get a picture of the gear which is cool.
I’m a fender amp guy so it is superior in that manner. It’s clean, cosmetically a thumbs up.
It has enough (main amps) for what I would need or sounds you would actually use in real world situations and as far as presets go…. They sound better than helix, etc… just my opinion
"FREEmium model"? It costs $1700 yeah?
Just now, you guys talking about a fender museum product, I would've probably bought it. But nothing yet has turned my eyes from the helix.
Best tone I’ve ever got is from the tonemaster pro. So easy to use.
Drive pedals… ehh. Put my angry Charlie in the effects loop and that problem was solved.
Hopefully they improve their drive algorithms. Modellers have an especially difficult time with Fuzz. I'm still shopping, but will defnitely be picking up a quality compact fuzz. Do you use a pedal board to mount your pedal(s) and power supply? If so, what are you using?
@@CitAllHearItAll Yeah a pedal train 1 pedal board. Pedal power power supply (although it’s just one pedal now).
Get a fm3 or 9 for that price
We are about to jump into Fractal gear big time here in a bit.
I love my Helix. Not interested in the Fender its nothing life changing.
TMP marshalls do not sound very close to real deal JCM 800 & Plexi - Fractal sounds were much closer to real deal - Leo Gibson did a very good comparison video - I like the TMP Pro though they will get the bugs and more amps & effects in time love the interface & touchscreen
I don’t understand everyone praising this thing then saying they wouldn’t use it in a live setting? They say it sounds better in some aspects then wouldn’t use it? Doesn’t make sense lol
If it’s better it’s better
Sounds vs. usability/functionality is a real thing
when you're too old for a headset yet young enough
not to use a mic stand.
I don't really understand what people are looking for? Who actually uses all of these billion amps? Just play guitar.
Wait until you hear them complain there are only 20 different types of delay and not the 35687 the helix has.
Being able to find the tone easier is huge as well. If you dread spending 30 mins getting a good sound vs dialing it in easier and quicker on a tone pro...
For the price, it is a fail. Under $500 as a backup to a Fractal FM9=Maybe. Funny part is I bought a real and glorious tube amp for $400. Add a few killer pedals and a cab and you are done....and for less money.
Fender is way too late in this game. These sounds are all capable in Helix. I totally disagree the US Deluxe Vib can nail a Fender Reverb just by cutting off high end. You can’t tell anyway unless you’re a-bing. But Helix is just as good at modeling the Fender amps. All you have to do is tweak it.
All fender amps are coming 100%. They are pros in marketing and not giving all away from the start. I don‘t get your conversation. Of course they put in other brands (amps). You never downsize your targetgroup. I thought you are pros, but this discussion goes the wrong way. Pessimistic and not on the level of your guitar knowledge….
The Helix sounds horrible since day 1, I never liked it
100% Fender is going to charge for new models. They’re too greedy to not.
You’ll be reminded it’s a Fender product when you have to pay extra for everything.
100%? You must work for Fender and know this? Wow! I'm going to return my Tone Master Pro right now thanks to your comment! Thanks for saving me the hassle of being stuck having to pay for more amp models in the future!
More likely they just abandon the product and release something else instead of bothering with updates, like they've done with every digital product they've ever released.
Exactly.
@@24avenged24 This exactly, but line 6 has sort of abandoned the variax. I've had both the JTV59 and JTV69 and they were both great guitars.
I think that as long as the gear still works, there may be no reason to update it. I mean, you don't really update your analog amps and pedals, do you?