Pike Place Market Must Be Pedestrianized
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- Pike Place Market is a popular tourist destination, and it would be a lot better for visitors and vendors alike if they got rid of the cars.
Sources:
Pike Place Market's Website
www.pikeplacem...
King 5 | Should Pike Place Market be 'car free'
www.king5.com/...
Seattle Times | Making Pike Place Market car-free gains traction but worries vendors
www.seattletim...
Seattle Times | Keep Pike Place Market open to traffic
www.seattletim...
Seattle Times | With thousands of pedestrians, why are vehicles allowed on Seattle’s Pike Place?
www.seattletim...
FastCompany | Why Local Businesses Shouldn't Worry About Eliminating On-Street Parking
www.fastcompan...
Bloomberg | Cyclists and Pedestrians Can End Up Spending More Each Month Than Drivers
www.bloomberg....
Strong Towns | Toronto’s Curbside Patios Made 49 Times More Money Than the Parking They Replaced
www.strongtown...
Measuring the Local Economic Impacts of Replacing On-Street Parking With Bike Lanes
www.tandfonlin...
Vancouver City News | Downtown Vancouver businesses' attitudes towards bike lanes have changed in the last 5 years
vancouver.city...
Houston Chronicle | Houston to keep part of Main Street closed for outdoor seating with hopes to expand idea citywide
www.houstonchr...
The Urbanist | City Pledges One-Block Pedestrianized Pike Street Pilot After Years of Advocacy
www.theurbanis...
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This is the most American thing ever. An 800 car parking garage and ample on street parking on other nearby streets, yet these entitled and selfish people want to park their car directly on the market.
Oh, we have the same stupid discussion in Germany. However once you have a pedestrian zone, it's the shop and especially restaurant owners in adjacent streets, who want it to be extended.
@@kailahmann1823 ohh really? That’s interesting. Guess it’s just humans or something lol.
@@Anna_Rae yes, that's always what happens when people experience such change and think to themselves: maybe this isn't so bad, and thus creating more demand, revenue and happiness.
Most American cities street parking is free after say 5-6 pm, the idea is so restaurant customers get easier parking. But there are numerous studies that show it's just employees parking out front (true for my small (130k pop) town). Stupidity rules in city planning in North America unfortunately.
Some American drivers don't know some spaces are supposed to be for pedestrians. Putting up signs would be helpful.
0:51-1:13 Even Yet Another Urbanist said some drivers get lost.
It's always wild to me that people think 'closing a street to cars' means 'lorries can't deliver their goods'. Obviously we're talking about passenger transportation here.
And not even passenger transportation (buses). Just private cars
Look at the 6:10 pickup truck. Its a literally an arms race on the road example.
People that make bad faith arguments such as that aren't concerned with the concept of such nuance
at that point you know the person reiterating such an ignorant response has literally never thought about any of this lmao/fucking sad at the same time.
@@rahmanesa7063 look at the lard favoring souls in it. lmao
Honestly, every “city center” or “top tourist street” should be closed to cars in my opinion. Then just provide a small tram service that drives up and down the center for people who have mobility issues (or who are tired after their wife drags them to the 27th Knick knacks store).
just look at most dutch cities, they're all closed off to cars and many of them created bike lanes in those pedestrian zones to make shorter routes for cyclists while cars gotta drive around the whole city center.
idk how we manage to make this system work so perfectly, it's amazing and no other country will achieve this in the next 20 to 30 years.
this is what Sydney, Australia did to their main street (george st.) and now the City of Parramatta (the secondary CBD of Sydney) is doing the same to their main street (church st.)
@@shloidain George St is definitely 1000% better without cars, but I wish they had made a little space for cyclists. Now people are cycling down the middle of the light rail tracks which is not ideal.
You are so so so so so right
@@shloidain We have Swanston St in Melbourne closed off to cars as well, and only a small section of Bourke St. There are so many areas that need to be pedestrianised, like Chinatown.
And if private cars were banned from pike place it would be easier for delivery drivers to get through
Exactly. I feel like until people get used to smaller shipments or alternative modes of delivery, pedestrian areas could be built with a buffer for delivery vehicles at certain times of the day, lower bollards and allow deliveries in while keeping out general traffic. The occasional delivery van isnt going to cause congestion or ruin the place or make it unsafe.
Oh i wrote this before I watched the video and lowering bollards was mentioned lol
I lived on Cap hill and have walked many times to Pikes Place; cars should have been banned decades ago.
I remember visiting in the 80s and 90s, and even then, I was shocked that they allowed any driver (aside from delivery vehicles) to drive and park there. Today, it’s unconscionable.
The reason that they don’t pedestrianize it isn’t because they are afraid it would fail; they are afraid it would succeed.
Welcome to Seattle!
"Bold action" doesn't happen here - Seattle process dictates that ideas must be studied for years, community input must be collected, and no idea advances unless 100% support it. Otherwise, status quo remains.
Unless, of course, Amazon or an important developer wants it to happen. In that case it can be approved immediately and without study.
It's called the democratic process.
Seattle was really the least progressive "progressive" city I have ever lived in. The NIMBYism was so toxic, and they made it so unaffordable in the process to block actual housing projects, that I left. I grew up in MN and have lived in 4 states now, and Seattle really takes the cake for the "screw you, got mine" attitude. It's unfortunate. People claim to be "liberal" there, but when it comes to housing and intelligent development like this video suggest, they very much are not.
@@OutsideSometimes Probably the only place worse than Seattle in this regard is San Francisco.
@@OutsideSometimesThere are more definitely NIMBYist cities than Seattle. And NIMBYism doesn’t apply here. In fact, it’s the opposite because they’re arguing for keeping car traffic allowed.
@@quitlife9279 What part of democracy is letting other people you didn't vote for but tangentially got selected in their position make all the decisions and also accept tens of thousands of dollars in lobbying money from massive corporations to go against the common interests of the actual people living and working in the environment?
I can’t imagine uncessary car traffic is good for the brick street either erosion wise. Also, if they really cared about accessibility to disabled, then they should limit through traffic to only disabled carrying vehicles, as that’d completely eliminate any disability concerns while still massively improving the ambience of the market.
Yes...they do this in Europe. It's not that difficult.
It's almost like the people making this argument are using the disabled as a scapegoat for their own selfish desire to drive wherever they want
Never been to the US and seen the assholes in a full size SUV or pickup, prominently displaying their handicap tag from their mirror. You'd see all of these not handicapped folks coming out if the wood work for sure.
i live in seattle! the market is often a crowded, overwhelming place, but having these cars in front of it often being driven by people who are very confused and definitely shouldn't be there make it so much worse. recovering this space for pedestrians would be so nice and could even help the congestion inside and liven up the place some more. a sign that says "no thru traffic - except deliveries" would be perfect and is such a simple solution that could be implemented immediately.
even if you don't want to pay lots for one of those fancy devices you can just have someone put up one of those barrier signs
Hope you get it, I do miss it on nice days. It's a cool place. Pike place would be so rad without cars haha.
Yeah, putting up those signs and taking it off route-finding apps would be huge! No confused tourists.
I agree, but people don't always follow signs so you have to put retractable bollards up to keep cars out.
Same thing applies for Vancouver's Granville Island. There's absolutely no reason for cars to drive in there. Pretty much all of downtown Vancouver is walkable with great transit nearby.
IME the parking is more for everyone in the exurbs who doesn't have that transit. If I'm coming in from Burnaby, or even Coquitlam these days, then sure, it's a Skytrain ride to Main Street/Science World and a bus down 2nd, or to Waterfront and then a bus down Granville St. across the bridge. But if I'm coming in from Surrey, Langley, or Maple Ridge (really anywhere east of the Port Mann Bridge), good freaking luck, it's at least twice as long to take transit, and it's really only an option near or west of each city's main transit hub, hence driving down and parking in one of the many garages or the big lot by the market. It sucks, but the way it is now the outer suburbs need to get their shit together to make transit really work, though that is slowly happening.
That being said, they didn't have to put those garages and lot in Granville Island itself, could have worked just as well on 4th right outside the entrance.
@@dominiccastsI think if they finally put in that tram in, it might actually lead to a push for pedestrianisation.
@@t4w1m94 sorry, which tram? The only one I've ever heard proposed was from Production Way station to SFU, I'm assuming this is a different proposal.
I've visited Pike Place in the past several times. It's a beautiful place. I drove out both times with my bike in the back of a rental car, and didn't drive after I got there. Pike Place looks like it is ripe for pedestrianization. There are much better routes through Seattle than through it, the bulk of people are already pedestrians and cyclists, and the density of the surrounding area lends itself well to public transit and walking/biking.
Deliveries are harder to address, but you could have a setup where the roads are only open to commercial vehicles during typical morning or night delivery hours. The least that could be done would be to replace the on-street parking on the main strip with protected bike lanes or more outdoor seating spaces.
In my city center (Alkmaar, the Netherlands) the roads are open untill 11 in the morning every day. Rest of the day they are closed. Works perfectly.
in york - my university town - the vast majority of the city centre is 'pedestrianised' but you can still drive a car down it at about five miles an hour - no-one wants to though because of how annoying it is - that's another option, narrow the roads to the point of being difficult and then put an annoying speed limit on them
please correct me if i'm wrong - i never drove in york
What about digital parking passes for deliveries? Every vendor, depending on the types of deliveries they need, gets a limited number of passes they can give to anyone else on an app. App signals those pop up posts to lower if the pass is valid. And if the pass remains stationary at the market for >1hr, parking enforcement leaves you a little love note.
Could even have something like the Good To Go passes, if the deliveries are in the same vehicles each time. Vendor would activate or deactivate the pass, and they can only activate so many passes at a time.
Probably a bit overly complicated, but there are a lot of options for this.
Happy to see new thoughts and commentary on a new city, and a much better spot than a sweltering sunbelt city!
I genuinely don't understand how anyone can look at a place that's just filled to BURSTING with pedestrians walking about, with only a handful of cars coming through, and conclude that the cars are essential to business. These cars probably don't even bring in 1% of the business that the pedestrians do! How is it not immediately obvious looking at this that pedestrians are where the business is at, and making the market more accessible for pedestrians would be by FAR the best way to help the businesses?
Got to love the "disabled people" excuse. Im disabled, have a fractured back and cant walk long distances, yet I bike everywhere.
Everyone I go to the market I just think to myself “what are we doing here?” It’s such an obvious and easy thing to do. Having cars try to push their way through crowds of people is actually offensive. It’s like if people were trying to drive through disneyworld and then make the case this is actually economically good for the theme park.
I can't believe this space isn't pedestrianized.
Have they never tried closing it for a limited period of time? It seems vendors would push back less on a one-month experiment. They could even be offered compensation if their sales do in fact drop during the experiment.
newbury st in boston pedestrianizes every sunday for the summer and i haven't really seen many complaints (other than ppl who are like waaa what if i need to drive to the hospital. first off why would u be driving to the hospital thru the busy shopping st and second there are drivable sts parallel to newbury on *either side*)
It’s so fucking cool seeing an Urbanist cover content that’s essentially in the backyard of where you live
I thought the same when I visited, it really makes zero sense to have cars drive through the masses of visitors. I'm 100% sure that the businesses would increase their sales substantially if it was fully pedestrianized (as it happens 100% of the time when other cities do it). I think you are spot on with your assessment that business owners mainly want to keep it open because they themselves like to park right in front of their businesses.
I doubt that is the case, but the shop owners "feel" their businesses depend on those parked cars somehow. They see 5 cars parked in front and think "business is booming", but fail to notice the 50 pedestrians passing by every hour, and can't envision the 500 pedestrians that would show up if the area was (nearly) car free.
@@hendman4083 In my experience shop owners are a lot more likely to arrive by car than their customers, making it hard for them to imagine how it could work any other way.
Ah! I didn't know you had moved here to Seattle! Welcome, welcome!
I actually do deliveries around the area so I am glad you touch upon the point that the marketplace should be pedestrianized while also allowing for needed vehicles to get through.
I started watching a few weeks back and I look forward to more from you.
There are so many new projects such as the Lynnwood extension for Light Rail, a new Orange Line for Swift BRT up north in Bothell-Mill Creek and Stride buses that will increase frequency of current routes. I hope you can cover those in the future!
You can tell the city is having growing pains
Every single one of their complaints could be solved with retractable bollards. I just visited Seattle last week and was appalled to see that cars were allowed in the market. I don't even understand why anyone would want to. It just seems miserable for everyone.
Edit: I wrote my comment before getting to the end of the video where you came to the exact same conclusion. Glad to see I'm not the only one with this idea.
I've accidentally driven through the market and yeah it sucks.
@@jacobskinner4443Same here - and that was 30 years ago. This isn't the olden days of quaint horse drawn lorries delivering produce and "dry goods", mixing with shoppers with high hats and parasols. Does someone have to die under a runaway car with Seattle paying out millions to the family to fix this? Delivery hours for vendors , unimpeded by other vehicles. Win, win.
If the issue is really about loading and disabled persons, then leave the street open to delivery trucks and vehicles with handicap tags and closed to all other vehicles. Let's see what happens!
You'd think it would also save time for the tourists wanting to go to Pike Place Market to force them into the parking garage, since every time I go there every single car is stuck moving at a crawl until they get off the street.
See also: Granville Island in Vancouver. Very similar situation in a very similar market
I've only been to seattle two times but there is like maybe 30 parking spots max here lmao why is that so important to keep
Well what if they move every so often then you got almost a hundred maybe, totally worth slowing down deliveries, limiting vendor space and endangering pedestrians
As an European subby - German, to be precice - I'd immediatedly pedestrianize this whole area without prior notice! The biggest issue of it all is the US-mindset of granting car accessibility to any places anywhere. IMO, cities are built for people and not for cars, and this market area in its present state is definitely not a liveable environment. However, SEA is increasingly addressing this topic, which makes me feel more optimistic about the otherwise doomed US transit future....
It’s refreshing to see some protected bike lanes instead of bike gutters.
It sounds like a long term project of educating the businesses in and around Pike Place Market on how pedestrianizing the area will actually benefit them. Sometimes people need to get out of their own way.
Every place needs to. It just takes time.
Same problem in the New Orleans French Quarter. No matter the precedent set by many European cities and some US cities of improving business by closing pedestrian tourist centers to cars, New Orleans continues to allow car traffic and parking in the French Quarter, even during festivals. Gridlock often occurs leading to repulsive car fumes and agitated drivers, risking the health of the pedestrians the French Quarter businesses rely on to stay afloat.
i remember when i visited seattle with my family and they put "pike place market" into the gps. we ended up driving through the market 4 times trying to find parking after eventually finding a lot underneath the very noisy alaskan way viaduct. it took us 20 minutes to walk from the car to the market and took 2-3 hours to exit the market by driving through it once again. overall we spent half the day trying to get to the market, with 60% of it sitting in the car.
I was in a routine where I had to drive through that multi-direction stop at the end of the market a couple times a week. Miserable. Cut out the through traffic and it's fine. Also, it's easier to park below Pike Place anyway... Deliveries can park on the streets that run up to it no problem, I've had far longer delivery dropoffs at restaurants I've worked. Just make the internal brick road area pedestrian only and it's basically just better for everybody
"We need to allow cars everywhere so that people in wheelchairs can get stuck outside the shops with a eight inch step at the door."
I just had some back and forth with my town council about how removing on street parking in favor of pedestrianizing the street would actually INCREASE business, thank you so much for all the awesome sources I can follow up with them on!
How is this real? Even in Australia this would be insane
Same issue with Granville Island here in Vancouver... And we even had a tram going to it at one point.... I was just there last summer and the whole place was completely backed up by an endless line of cars clogging up all of the available space and making it difficult to traverse. Even my car dependent dad who was with me at the time (I made him take transit with me) made a comment that the cars were completely ruining the place. It baffles me... utterly baffles me how people can't see this issue.
In Europe, there are tons of places that are only open for 'loading and unloading' - that is, only commercial traffic, and no parking. Any car or truck that is not explicitly in the act of loading or unloading, gets fined. I'm just confused, because it seems, at the very least, banning on-street parking is just such a no-brainer. It benefits literally everyone from businesses to customers. Could a vendor really be so short-sighted they would hurt their own business just so they have a little shorter walk each day?
My limited mobility mother visited recently and we just used the parking garage, no problem. Even when people want to deny the known benefits banning cars has on places like this, I don't know how they deny the fact that there's an ample parking garage with elevators. I mean, you could even take a Lyft and get dropped off on the corner if you insist on using a car.
I worked at pike place for about a year not long ago and pedestrianizing it would only benefit the area, just like you say. It already feels like a spot meant for pedestrians primarily (see all the people walking in the street when it's safe to do so) and delivery or emergency vehicles are the only ones that *need* to be there. For accessibility, they could dedicate some nearby parking spaces on 1st or up Pike for disability only parking. If more people are walking about in the cobblestone street, that will also free up the smoother sidewalk for wheelchairs. It could even allow more venders to move in, and I know many of the businesses across from the covered area would really benefit from outdoor seating options.
The same flawed arguments about access for elderly and disabled people were weaponized by a right-wing municipal government in Vancouver to remove a popular protected cycle lane and reopen a lane for automobiles in Stanley Park, the largest city park and a major tourist destination. Predictably, traffic congestion has worsened and cyclists and other mobility users are often crammed into an overly crowded path on the Seawall.
This car-brained nonsense must be fought at every turn. Restricting or even banning private automobiles at popular destinations is more equitable and allows more people to visit, since walking and cycling are cheaper and more space-efficient. The businesses will actually have more visitors when cars are removed.
What is the counter against that argument? Folks have to come with one as opposed to dismissing it out of hand, even if those making the argument are being disingenuous about it. If there is no counter, the argument has a high likelihood of winning.
@@Geotpf i think the way forward for accessibility for those with mobility issues is using small mobility scooters which can share paths with bikes and pedestrians, not using cars, some of which can be massive. But the issue i imagine is that as long as cars dominate mobility scooters aren't going to be popular just like biking or walking.
@@quitlife9279 I think that framing bike lanes as "mobility lanes" can be helpful, since they can be used by people on micromobility devices like scooters, as well as bikes. And of course disabled people can also use the lanes in wheelchairs, mobility scooters, etc. This changes the framing that these lanes are only for cyclists (or worse, "roadies") and helps to build support until you have a critical mass of users who support the protected lanes.
I'm on this soap box with you. 😊 I go to Pike on a regular basis, on either transit or by bike. Every time I'm there i think all the things you said in the video. It's completely stupid.
Preach! I’ve never understood why Pike Place is open to cars
I agree with everything on this video, but what the Puget Sound area needs is more transit. The existing light rail and sounder lines are ok, but there need to be stops east, north and south then of what the expansion has planned. What should happen for future expansions is have the sounder trains run from Olympia to Everett, having more sounder to link rail connected stations, the planned Kirkland to Issaquah to expand to Snoqualmie/North Bend, and for all of them to have a stop in Downtown Seattle.
There's a place like this in Sydney Australia: Kensington St which runs adjacent to Spice Alley, a popular restaurant area. Like Pike Place it's an important access street for deliveries but I facepalm every time I see a private vehicle crawl through a sea of pedestrians to access one of the tiny number of parking bays.
Ive driven there in off peak times. It isn't bad when its quiet. But when it's busy its terrible driving. It should have off limit times, in the morning open for deliveries, then close it off during the afternoon, and in the evening depending on circumstances. It could be used for evening festivals
I live in Seattle and go to the market about every 2 weeks. I'm on a cane (I take the bus there)... having to walk out into the street by walking off a curb and then back on to go around the folks in lines on the sidewalk (or gawking tourists... which is fine, we need the tourists and it IS beautiful there)... it's such a hassle and a danger. If there wasn't much traffic (limited to deliveries, ADA access, and even a spot for food driver pickup) then so much more space could be devoted to pedestrians and it would be better for everyone. As a local I really don't spend much time there in the summer because of the crowding situation. Also, having more ped space would allow for more seating (either specific to a shop or just general). I feel like I need to rush in and out most of the time.
When I went there a couple of years ago as a tourist we took an Uber from our hotel which would leave us one block over and we would walk into pike place market. That was way faster than them trying to enter the area.
Towns are places of ambience where people congregate to relax, to entertain, exchange ideas, sell or buy. The public space like town squares and parks are the stages and catalyst for these activities. Towns can be read like books - the streets, walkways, parks, gathering places, interesting architecture of beautiful buildings, buzzing squares of economic activities and oasis of tranquility, the walkability for seniors that create a high quality of life, a joy for visitors and the residents who live, work and play. This is the grammar of a town, they fill the town with life. A town can be friendly to people or it can be friendly to cars, but they can not co-exist.
I wonder if theres some way to allow deliveries to get through, and stop amy others traffic. Ideally there wojld be bollards preventing any large vehicles getting thru.. there has to be a way to balance that
Leave the bollards down from 10:00 am to 06:00 or 09:00 pm or so, and allow deliveries in outside those hours. Problem solved.
Outdoor dining on a pedestrianized street is a goldmine for restaurants. For examples, see Market Square in Knoxville or the Downtown Mall in Charlottesville, VA.
Pike Place Market is a wonderful place that I have enjoyed every time I've gone to Seattle. It's already a wonderful place to walk around, not to mention the whole area is very easy to traverse on foot. And I would fully support removing cars. Frankly, it's just plain incompatible with car traffic. It's not a pleasant, fast, or easy place to drive through. Anyone smart would drive and park somewhere else. Having it open to cars doesn't even serve drivers, so I think there's very little value to keeping it as is. Limiting vehicle traffic would make it more pleasant as a pedestrian, and keep drivers from having a very unpleasant experience driving through it.
Plus, since it's such a prominent and famous spot, a successful pedestrianization could make for good press to encourage other places to do the same.
Always weird when you see yourself in a video holy crap! Live in the area and it was awesome to see you out recording! Thanks for your work man!
It's really weird that there's so much resistance to pedestrianize pike place when there are already some very successful fully pedestrianized streets around Seattle.
I always parked in a parking garage when visiting and walked over. Getting rid of tourist drivers and having ride shares drop people off a block away would be so nice. It would make it easier for delivery drivers to get in and out.
Americans are scared of leaving their cars. I've seen cases of people using cars to drive their kids to school, despite that for decades before they used to walk the same place, regardless of distance. It's become ingrained, if not brainwashed, into the modern mindset and culture for various reasons. Some people don't want to be inconvenienced, they assume they will be and even fear not being able to drive or having to take public transit or another way. Additionally, a lot of these people also want to turn every aspect of their outdoor urban experience into malls instead of real towns with abundant alternative transit.
Seeing those cars clog up those streets while providing many more negatives than positives is baffling.
omg I am so excited that you're in Seattle making content. soso excited. 🙌
Love that you moved to Seattle and just went right for the Pike Place Predicament lol
I love his voice. Could listen to him talk all day
A year later and it’s still the same situation. There is some intractable decision paralysis and strong feelings on both sides that might keep this from ever happening. I bet most of the confused tourists who turn and start driving into the market immediately realize they’re made a mistake too. It might be a kindness to prevent them from having that ordeal.
I remember when Westlake Center was closed off to cars, and how much better that was. Then they opened it up to cars again, and it sucks!
It seems obvious on a map. Keep Western Ave open for access to the garage, close pike place from pike St to Virginia St, using pike, pine, and Stewart streets as Culs-de-Sac for delivery trucks
Start charging parking fees. No such thing as free parking
I was just visiting Seattle last week and when we went to the Pike Place Market we had planned to spend a few hours checking out the shops and hanging out. We got so annoyed by the cars driving through and the fact all the people were squeezed on to a 3 foot wide sidewalk with absolutely no space to move that we ended up staying for about 30 minutes and then we went to another part of town. Probably only went to 10 vendors and ended up skipping out on where we had planned to eat lunch and shopping that the district lost around $200 that day just from 2 people. These vendors are loosing soooo much money just so a few cars can drive through the street.
Wow, you sound so much happier now that you've moved to Seattle.
Replace all the parking spots in in pikes Place Market area with handicap parking, permit only parking for deliveries, and short-term parking for food pick up and food delivery such as doordash. I used to do doordash so I know about the importance of having short-term parking.
It would be great if towns and cities had the willpower to make drastic changes like this
if only people could realize just how ridiculous it is to have cars welcome absolutely everywhere no matter how much sense it actually makes. A lifetime of this blinds you to how stupid it is. Cars are not extensions of our bodies.
I say doing something like in Europe, where technically cars and trucks can drive through but it's heavily restricted.
I’m so excited for your videos. Seattle needs the pressure put on them. It has so much potential
Permanent closure isnt neccesary. Peak demand closures on summer weekends as were common in the past ( ie "summer sundays" from stewart to virginia) was incredibly popular with vendors. Keeping a section open from pine to stewart for handicapped pick up, shuttles, ubers and taxis, and access to deliveries throughout would help alleviate a huge complaint about the market, ( crowding, no place to sit) which has erupted in vehicular violence and road rage many many times.
A sign at every street entrance that warns drivers of a slow pedestrian zone ( caution, 5 mph, SLOW traffic heavy pedestrian use etc) would warn drivers that it is not a typical throughfare.
In the winter, closure is not neccesary, and would seem truly deserted and hamper business. At peak demand it makes sense to close the street or at least a portion of it.
I think there likely are a good amount of people that use that access point to deliver goods or to make a quick trip to buy goods during the non-tourist periods. But I think they should at least do a half measure and close it to cars during peak tourist periods like summer when it’s not raining or Christmas when there’s a Ton of people visiting Seattle, which normally gets very dressed up for Christmas.
Don't forget the many chaotic streets seen in many third world countries like India have the same problem as Pike Place Market, that can get similar solutions. Even in Pyongyang where the Dear Leader is currently rapidly pedantizing many of Pyongyang Streets while Seattle USA.... makes Seattle's Pike Place continue to look like a third world dump.
I expect a video on the Burke Gilman and Samamish river trail sometime. It’s lovely.
Glad to see you’re still hitting hard in Seattle.
When I go to Pike Place, my first thought is why would non business people subject themselves to driving through it 😂 (probably tourists) only to get stuck in pedestrian traffic.
Make all parking spots delivery only, reverse the flow so you can only enter from Virginia and exit to 1st via Pike St, put in retractable bollards at Virginia and Pike pl that are only activated by "Good to Go" passes, make the fee $20, make the fees refundable if charged to private companies (LLCs).
Born and raised in Utrecht, when the center was to be pedestrianized, we had all the same arguments. Now, businesses on nearby streets are petitioning to please get pedestrianized too
We can't have our precious car occupants parking a full BLOCK from their destination!!!
Parked cars block storefronts. Can't see an enticing merch display, pastry case, or sidewalk sign if some giant suv is blocking 80% of the view.
You’d have to be mad to willingly drive down that street 😅
walking and biking make you hungry too :)
hungry people = busy restaurants
I never thought about this for some reason, but it is a good idea
That's true, we should get rid of the traffic in the Public Market. A little walking won't hurt any body.
Shouldn't pedestrianize the space if the vendors are not in agreement, they are the locals and it does put their business at risk. The solution is to create a new, pedestrianized market and demonstrate how successful it is within that region (especially if you can do it in an area of downtown that needs a revitalization). If the Pike Place vendors start losing business to another market watch how fast they beg to be pedestrianized.
New pedestrianized street that WSDOT is creating along Railroad Way between Lumen Field and the waterfront might be the place to do this. :)
Why don't they turn this into a true American place? Drive trough market, passing the stalls in your car and buy what you need through the car side window. Just like any other normal bank or restaurant.
😆
Disabled people like to explore around too and not just by car. You are only dropped off once.
It’s better for their mobility when the pedestrian space is larger.
It's been like that since I was a young child..... congested...I'm 60
First Seattle vid, nice! 😎
Great to see your new stuff in Seattle, excellent as always.
"More people were shopping because they could access the business by bike" YES!. Exactly.
Thanks for shining a light on this.
When I was walking around a campgrounds while there, it always pissed me off when someone would come driving their car down the internal pathways.
(And it was always those shitty gas guzzling pedestrian magnets... WHERE'S THE HONDA ACCORDS!?!?)
This is ridiculous this is not yet a pedestrian only space
Absolutely close this space to all but local deliveries, as someone who lived in Seattle for almost a decade, this sucked a ton about Pike Place. It screwed up traffic around the market, and it made me not want to go down there. There's already other places to park lol. Pike place would be so much better without cars. I drove down there many times but, never parked or drove through the market. Eff that. People have no idea how badly this is hamstringing the market lol.
Seattle needs to work on making their parking garages cheaper, no one will ever want to park somewhere that costs 15 dollars when curbside is like 2 bucks, both curbise needs to get more expensive to not give an incentive and parking garages need to be made cheaper or outright free if someone buys from the businesses near them
Automated bollards seem to take as much maintenance as just employing a person to manually deploy them as needed
Honestly, the cars driving through don't bother me. I purposely walk down the middle of the street and I get a good laugh at the drivers forced to wait for everyone. The parked cars on the otherhand bother me because they do get in the way.
All of this video: 100% YES! Retractable bollards, delivery periods, every bit of it. It should have been pedestrianized years ago, but the lack of imagination of the vendors is holding it ransom. There are, what, 40, maybe 50 spaces on that street? I've never actually witnessed anybody actually pulling in to one of those spaces. They're always occupied. The entire area would be much safer and so much more pleasant without the dang cars there.
God I hate cars on that road. It’s insane.
I vote for all of Seattle to be pedestrianized and demolish every car in city limits tbh