WTF is CP? - Secret Stats Warhammer 2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
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A well kept secret of Warhammer 2... Good old CP. How it works, how it effects your battles, and how it can be... controlled for ultimate POWA!
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Good luck getting this video monetized lol
I had three mobile game ads pop up. It's monetized alright. 😂
Edit: Four. The last one was from some stocks app.
Why shouldn't this be monetised, I feel like I'm missing something
@@thesuperginge1348 there's a very different meaning for cp in general real world terms
Nörttiliiga I must be oblivious then
aSneakyChicken Continue to be.
So this is the reason why when you see LegendofTotalwar force the AI to waste their ammo that the Balance of Power shifts. CP is the stat that is causing the game to do that.
Yeah Legend calls it balance of power
@@SteveSimi I mean, a man's gotta make bread. Balance of power is a lot more descript and doesn't get one in trouble.
@@SteveSimi and the Balance of Power is the CP calculation, so he's right.
Balance of Power is the bar at the top of the screen on any difficulty except Legendary. CP is the calculation that forms the values for that bar
And it's why you get "Close Victory" even though you only lost 40 compared to the enemy's 700.
So what do we learn: Make sure you always use up all your ammo, so the killing keeps going on for longer. Blood for the blood god!
Wow, I have over 500 hours in this game, but it's mind blowing to learn things the game never tells you
They're not important because you cannot use them to your advantage! The AI cheats a lot when you start to get strong and they begin to attack you with huge elite units out of nowhere just as soon as you begin to create big armies and take over many settlements!
@@johnclayton4946 noob
I love that he uses "elves killed" as a measurment unit
foolish Mon-keigh
Bob Bifford would be proud
Ah, another grude settled.
With this much CP don’t call your army, call the FBI
Am I the only one that immediately thought about Command Points ?
The Emperor protects.
I had casualty points. Like how you use to check who won in 8th edition Fantasy
I thought combat power.
I was getting all smug, then he said Combat Potential ;_;
I thought either Command or Control
So this is why Undead factions can fight so effectively with their lord and some chaff left - a fully juiced-up Vampire Lord or Tomb King is worth well over the 22% by itself, between toughness and healing are very hard to drop below the minimum 22%, and takes a lot of army to measure up to 2.6 times that force.
That's why I just have a few hero's to smoke the enemy lords.
So I'm seeing that I should never conserve my ammo so I can kill more high elves?
The question is does healing and summons increase the CP? Also what about Winds of magic?
Imagine if TWW40K comes out and Zerkovich has to publish another "What is CP?" video.
TWWH40K? Doubtfull
@@pancytryna9378 Yeah, I doubt there'll be that many of them
@@thephoenician9597 you made me exhale sharply.
A Wh40K or a Star Wars one would be awesome!
never ever. We will get TWWTOW instead
So this is why if units are damaged at all the auto resolve can get wacky. Great video!
Ratling Gunner in Ikit Claw's campaign army: "What is this 'using up your ammo' thing you talk-speak of, man-thing?"
more like "what is ammo man-thing? I just pull trigger and it go brrrrrrr."
Imagine having ammo problems as Ikit claw
Legend of Total War refers to this as Balance of Power contributions, but it's nice to see this explicitly explained in a more technical way. And also why missiles are so powerful in part: they have all their combat power at a distance and ammo counts for it and thus contributes to balance of power, so effective ammo use is vital.
Also is why single entities are so powerful while they may lose health no models can be lost so combat potential always remains the same excluding fatigue. I remember playing a Eltharion campaign using only the ranged Mistwalker units in his army and every battle was 95% auto resolve cake walk.
He doesnt cheese in sieges and empties the units ammo before using another , I wonder if it would affect my sieges.
@@Lopsinho winds of magic are not counted.
@@cinder8926 untrue. Check his feral Carnosaur example. Half health = half combat potential. It uses health points, not model numbers.
@@sjonnieplayfull5859 If you take a group of 120 archers they will fire off 120 arrows. If you then killed 60 archers now only 60 arrows can come your way halfing the damage they can do in a volley, and so half combat potential. If you take a Carnosaur and lets say it can kill 5 soldiers per attack. If you then half its health it will still be able to kill 5 soldiers when it attacks. It can do that at full health and half health or at 1hp. The only thing that negates its damage output is fatigues debuffs. If you gave a Carnosaur perfect vigor it would always be able to do the same amount of damage no matter its remaining health. While its survivability may be lower it can always deal max damage. This is something no other unit type can do. Hence why single entities are so good.
I always thought the "army losses" was based on the balance bar, but I think we can use the whole 45% ammo thing to get really quick wins especially if you cheese sieges.
This is this moment when you realize that "cheese" tactics LegOfTW is realy high rank general tactics.
No... I will never acknowledge that for him. 😛
drinking game:
take a shot every time he says CP.
what's the prize if you're still conscious by the end of the video? :-P
Does the amount of magic points left affect a caster's CP and similar question about items / abilities (e.g. potions / breath weapons) with limited uses - does using them drop CP?
afaik winds of magic also contribute to cp
Conserving ammo to make your enemies run away faster flips the fundamental mindset of 99% of players. It's usually "I need to use up all their ammo to get my money's worth," now we're learning it's really "I need to use up half their ammo and then sit back and let the game win for me." CA pls
One year later because it took me this long to realise it:
Making an enemy run away instead of killing them isn't that good in campaign. Sure, you've won the battle, but that doesn't mean much if the enemy army is still intact. You notice this especially when palying as the Dwarfs, as the greenskins love to run super early, making you need a follow-up attack to wipe the army out.
@@kubaGR8 4 months later because it took me this long to realise it:
you're right
@@trixon2118 6 hours later
@@kubaGR8 But if You have enough move to get them down, then it's better. Second time they will wiped out. And You will have again full ammo + full mana to crush them fast. Just not fun when they will escape a far far away. The strategy has been choosen after looks on the worldmap wider.
@@Crochu89 Big "if"
Ikit claw replenishing ammo units be like BRRRRTT and 0 loss of Cp xD
Wow Warhammer 2 sure has a lot of CP in it.
@BANGLA BOY or Netflix
@BANGLA BOY wait theres cp on Twitter? I hope they don't take after Tumblr and nuke nsfw stuff from orbit. Though knowing how most people on Twitter can't tell a drawing isn't real I wouldn't be surprised if they nuked it like Tumblr
15:55 that´s the problem with the CP, single entity units when the are damage they still can put the same damage outpout, I have seen a lot of time when the CP is just drunk because yeah those archers can do decent in mele, but they can´t penetrate armor, so i have to fight that battle manuallu.
Of course I´m refering to singleplayer against the AI because it is when you actually have to think of it.
That's not entirely wrong in multiplayer either, I lost count of the number of battles I've seen turned because of a half-dead carnosaur of thanks to a hydra who obstinately refused to die.
The game treats single large monsters the same as melee units, yet their dps doesn't go down with their HP : a 20% HP carnosaur still dish out as much damage as a 100% one.
@@RoulicisThe and wordt with life mages or if they can regenerate, at the end of a battle you can't damage then, that's why archers are so popular, to target monster
And also why in Troy héroes are hated, they are human, so you can't focus your projectiles against them like you woyld against kholek for example, they just don't shoot cause of friendly fire
Fantastic video, informative and well explained. I think I already knew pretty much all of those things affected army losses, but knowing the SPECIFICS and HOW MUCH is something else entirely. Great resource, thankyou!
19:00 I demand Iron Harvest army guides now Zerkyboi >:)
"so here you go, the magical world of CP" 😂
i wish the game would just tell you this stuff
I suppose it would only be more encouragement to head straight for doomstacks of elite units, rather than a fluffy (lore-related), balanced army.
I didnt know that last part about it stacking and that is what is causing my troops to whine about stronger units. You are goblins! There is nothing stronger around.. wait.
CP stands for cerebral palsy
That testing shows that ammo is pretty unbalanced. The whole point of this system is that CP should roughly equal a units offensive/defensive/support/whatever potential. If conserving ammo means you save more CP than the amount of damage you deal in enemy CP lost, that would imply that that last 50% ammo is overcosted in CP. That being said there are probably other good reasons for the ammo curve you showed, so it's probably an unfortunate consequence of playing around a mechanic which is normally kept behind the scenes.
i recon the reason is that in MOST battles where you bring equal force your ranged unity rarely ever use up all their ammunition and stay just as dangerous. In single player at least. I don't see this making sense in multiplayer in any way.
That because "CP" means combat POTENTIAL.
Basically, it's not about how much damage/value the unit deliver, it's a theorical value of what it's supposed to be able to do at this very moment.
A melee unit's CP goes down accordingly to it's HP because the more damaged the unit is, the less damage it's supposed to be able to dish out before dying.
For ranged units it's the same thing, but tied to the ammo : as it's all about POTENTIAL, if the unit still has a load of ammo remaining, that means it could POTENTIALLY do a lot of damage. But if said unit spends this ammo, the "potential" damage is being spent over time, thus decreasing the unit's value, as a ranged or artillery unit becomes pretty much useless without ammo.
@@RoulicisThe if you listen to your explanation of POTENTIAL, one might assume the POTENTIAL would POTENTIALLY have a linear correlation to a units ammunition or health. You talking about POTENTIAL, in no way or form explains why the POTENTIAL for ranged unit stays the same at around until 50% and then significantly drops. The problem was about this very exact nature. Not that CP means combat POTENTIAL. So take your POTENTIAL, and chill tf out.
@@TrveBlackMetal1 The reason why it stays basically the same bove 50% ammunition is because, due to how missile units are balanced in this game, 50% ammo, for most range unit is enough for them to get their theorical value.
You take a high elf archer and shoot at a high elf spearman, the archer will wipe the spearman with more than 50% of it's ammo remaining (unless shot from the front, cause the shield will waste a bit of ammo).
Thus, when it drops below 50%, the damage POTENTIAL of the missile unit drops from "acceptable" to "dangerously low" pretty fast, cause under 50% ammo, spent ammo becomes more and more critical.
The first 50% ammo can be considered a "safe" margin for the missile unit.
Oh, and by the way, if you watched the video "CP" is litteraly abreviation for "Combat Potential" as he explains so himself at the start, so you can shove your condescency up your ass and sit on it :P
@@RoulicisThe The only one thats condescending is you. Hence i pointed out how stupidly you used the wort POTENTIAL. Everyone watched the video. Everyone got the point. Everyone understood the abbreviation. This in no way shape or form explains the "curve" the devs used for the CP of missle units.
I literally made a similar point, that in most single player battles where you bring equal forces missle units almost never lose their actual potential because they basically never even get to shoot all their ammunition.
The same doesnt hold for multiplayer though as the playstyle there is quite different and a lot of matches come down to the last couple of man still standing. This kind of balancing is non-sensical. Especially if you additionally consider units like single entities, that lose health, thus CP, but are still able to dish out the same amount of damage. A topic that's been brought up by the community time and again, and with mods like SFO trying to balance this.
The whole point of OPs comment was that CP isnt balanced. And he is right. It isnt. So go home.
FBI OPEN UP!!!
This is some good CP
Ammo CP needs to be linear. It's not like the last 50% of ammo does more damage than the first 50% of ammo. Relative to the remaining army size, perhaps, but then again the proportion of CP lost will already be higher due to the lower CP towards the later part of the battle. It's kind of broken logic that you can stop firing and win easier.
The first 50% should do relatively more damage though since you're hitting dudes before they get to you. That's why I like 'good at melee' ranged units. I can use ~50% of ammo as the enemy army is closing in, and then switch them into melee combat to conserve the balance of power.
I just realise that Skinks with Javalins are super bad when it comes to these CP points since they only got 3javalins ammo.
well they still have decent melee CP. bit similar to shades like zerk also showed
@@artje90 but the score is based on total CP % loss, so once you shoot its gone regardless of their melee CP. Don't mean to diss them since I always love skinks with javs in the early game (especially against those fast routing rat cowards).
@@Emperor_Atlantis jav skinks have 400 cp
300 melee and 100 ranged
skins without javs are 300
jav skinks are identical except they also have javs
javs worth +100 gold = only 100 cp
@@Emperor_Atlantis with 3 ammo they can not do much damage, so it does not count for much combat power
I didn't think this would be that important of a video, but now so much more makes sense. I think a real big strategy to take from this, both campaign and multiplayer, is to use your missiles effectively, while doing your best to get rid of the enemy's as fast as possible. I can fully see the strategy now, ranged infantry to combat most of the enemy army, but dedicated artillery/monsters/cav ready to scare away and destroy the enemies ranged. Without their fire support, your own units can use half their ammo to decimate their intended targets, and then just sit on their ass/chase routing enemies in melee to keep them away. Bam, absolutely destroy their CP, while keeping yours way up.
Anyway, thank you for making these videos, even as a goon with thousands of hours in this game, I always learn something new with these. Good job!
Use ranged units in the back of your fighting units to give the enemy the 'stronger and faster units nearby' debuff, or keep them close to the enemy rear for the 'threatened flank' debuff. Doing a rear charge only when they are about to break and go down in a few sec, but remember : loosing a model also means loosing all its ammo.
Edit: also use ranged units on close combat to chase routing enemy units off the field, freeing your melee units.
So what I'm seeing for campaign is that those +ammunition skills and abilities are much more useful than I had ever thought. Not so much because I'll use it, but because by having more to use before this magical 50% I've been helping myself win battle quicker.
I have no idea what CP could possibly mean and I'm very confused about all these comments.
On a more serious note, this explains why I have to exterminate the enemy to a last man in sieges. I spend all ammo on my ranged units.
the fbi comments are because cp also stands for child porn
@@LachNetSoDumm thank U sir I was so confused
@@LachNetSoDumm damn, that never occurred to me. Why is that the first thing on all these people's minds?!
@@thesuperginge1348 cause thats the more common use and definition online
i personally think people have there minds where gutter runners normally hang out but hey its the internet so what do you expect
It stands for Cheese Pizza ;)
I'm glad this CP is not the kind Bill Clinton likes.
This is such a dumb system for campaign, because
1) balance goes out the window when one army is even a good bit cheaper than the other as it will start the battle on its backfoot.
This leads to
2) The inability to beat a much more expensive army with a cheaper army due to starting off with a major handicap and no way to pick up the slack due to worse stats, but this should be a possibility in any strategy game to minimize your own resource losses and maximize those of your opponent. Even if you manage to hold your ground and inflict heavy damage, the enemy will easily count as 2.6× stronger with its expensive units, making your units rout off prematurely despite them being in good health. This is especially true for monster and single entity units who never really lose CP during the course of a battle as long as they don't take major damage. Any sturdy expensive monster unit can thus easily overwhelm a faction that doesn't get monsters or has no way of easily dealing with them.
Not only does this system lock you out of winning a battle with basic units and good tactics, but it also makes high leadership and most leadership buffs entirety redundant if your enemy has more higher tier units than you do.
Zerk: what is CP?
Me, a former 4chan degenerate: erm... well I think I know what it is, but I don't think you think it's what I think it is.
Ok, make lothern sea guard go into stabby mode after a few shots, got it.
Zerkovich the wise. Does all the digging into these things so I don't have to xD xD Thank you though, seriously
I wouldn't want my Greatswords or Princes to have CP fucking lol
CP is what you shouldn't have on your computer, unless you want the FBI to show up on your doorstep.
So nice, you never stop learning about warhammer total war
Do think that the CP lowered just goes down at 50% is kinda dumb. inda think the % of ranged cp should be equel to % ammo left of max. another reason why the ordertide are a pain to balance in campaign
Ranged units are squisy, and a liability anyway. Once they start shooting it is hard enough to keep them safe, but loosing points because they shoot would be too much. So you can start firing away with no problem. Halfway you should have won, and are penalized for trying to kite the enemy and not being more agressive.
@@sjonnieplayfull5859 yet ranged units especially low tier dont really have the penalty that melee units have with actually hitting the target. they dont have to go trough MA vs MD check...
@@artje90 they have accuracy, meaning they hit elite units just as bad as meatshields 😁. So no, they have the same problems. Plus units that change course might dodge a lot, especialy fast lords. Oh, and friendly fire. Monster attacks see friendly troops fly all over the screen, but none are harmed. Friendly arrows however...
@@sjonnieplayfull5859 I don't agree with accuracy being a problem. Even the cheap ranged units like peasant bowman are accuracy enough to deal a lot of damage. Of course small flying lords are a problem, but mostly for the AI because it doesn't recognize when it's worth to shoot something.
Oh, that ammo cp explains a lot
After setteling a village, I sometimes loose cause they all route,
even if I shot up most of their army ...
I did not click on this video because I saw CP. I clicked on this video because I was scientifically curious.
FBI should be knocking on his door any minute now
So, extra ammo for missile units allows them to maintain their CP longer. An army, with a majority of missile units, could break even though their units were still pretty healthy if they used up all their ammo and dropped the army CP strength to get the leadership penalty. Not too manny missile units in an army and as much ammo as you can get for the missile units you have would be wise methinks. Wasting missiles on fleeing units would be a dangerous waste of CP in a close fight and could cost you the battle.
Can you do a video explaining auto resolve?
That one is easy : when you engage an ennemi army you will have 3 buttons, "fight", "auto-resolve" and "retreat", if you hit on that "auto-resolve" button the game do some magic and f*c* *p your army, because it's fuel is players tears and a new chaos god is growing in the warp : Saltanis, The One Who Bring Despair.
@@orthiaclamedesang1797 I believe it
and that's another reason why vampire coast is op : ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Gotta love how absurdly favourable the game is for armies consisting of mostly ranged units LMAO
Cp is where your would-be glorious heroic or decisive victory with only a couple losses and a devestated enemy army ends as a close victory.
it will matter only in multiplayer, but in campaign you always want to deal as much damage as possible no matter how long will it take.
Uses in campaign: preserve ammo against Tomb Kings, Vampires and Vampire coast to make them crumble faster. Also usefull against an army caught in march stance, since it is destroyed once it looses, as well as siege battles and minor settlement battles.
Dodging artillery and ranged units with a mounted lord to get the enemy combat potential down before the real battle starts when it will be a hard battle.
Waste as much ammo on skaven and goblins to keep them in the fight longer and you can bleed them more, before they run away without any units lost and come back with friends.
Snipe a few Tomb Kings and princes and watch hundreds of skeletons crumble.
somehow it makes no sense that a single monster loses 50% CP when lost 50% health, since the dmg output of it is still the same
So much CP it might as well be DP to my sense of EP
I feel like he made this video without even thinking about other meanings for cp. Lol
Capture Points?
Child Parties 🌚
@@solareclipse9379 close. Do not think too far, when you realise the truth you might throw up
Thank you very much for the video! Are there any meaningful changes in CP calculation in Total War: Warhammer III in comparison with Warhammer II?
Me watching this video: Really intersting.
Me watching the comments: Eeeeehm? dafuq?
HAH those Demigryphs got the short end from the auto-resolve gods.
I actually see chicken porn before I sleep, so I thought CP was a reference to it.
take shot for every time he says CP
That autoresolve though...
While this mechanic does make sense to some extend I also feel like it's one of the biggest flaws the battles have.
agree
So, a correction in Warhammer 3:
Army loses happen when your relative CP(your CP/your CP at the start of the battle) is 2.6 times higher than your opponent relative CP, not when your absolute CP is 2.6 times higher.
Not sure how it was in warhammer 2, but you can make tests in Warhammer 3.
Take a really high value army against a weak one and make 80% of them flee, army loses will trigger.
What about CP for single entity units that get damaged? How much CP does a half healthed stegadon have compared to a full health one? Does it behave the same as melee infantry? How much damage potential is lost for a half healthed stegadon?
Playing Warhammer fantasy, we used the name "Combat points". This is used to determine the army rooster. ie if you were playning a 2000 point match you were allowed a lord and both teams could field a 2000 point army.
Great video thx! Great info for campaign. dwarf engineers will replenish at less than 50% and will value ammo buffs way more. first ttime ive seen faster and stronger explained too
What remains of a troll unit CP after 2 routs I wonder... 🤔
Not much, that’s certain lol
Thx for infos, always useful to know. 👍
18:06 My Boiii jumping STRAIGHT into a SPEAR and shrugging it off like it didn`t even happen
Something doesn't make sense with the results. He says conserving your ammo saves your CP and this can be better than just shooting for kills. This makes some degree of sense, particularly if the target has shields which means you won't get that many kills anyways. But then he shows his conserving ammo resulted in fewer kills. If you inflict the army losses penalty sooner, shouldn't you get more kills since you get to run down the enemy? If I win with 3 units of infantry and 1 unit of badly beaten cavalry, I won't be able to run down many units but if the other side gets an early army loses and I have most of my units, i'd imagine I should get lots of kills running them down.
Thank you very much, you basically answered all the questions that were left from the last video regarding this topic.
Were CA drunk when they made the ammo CP? That scaling is completely counterintuitive.
Not for my skill level- if i do manage to win, it's because i had to bring everything into melee, even the likes of skavenslave slingers and bretonnia knifey archers.
ish you had discussed a little bit about summon units and their effect on the balance of power.
Sometimes if you have no balance of power you get army losses with a tickle from the enemy. Sometimes routing before combat.
Someone seeing this in 2022? Preparing for the new Total War Warhammer III that comes tomorrow!!!
Maybe i'm very late here, but is there a possibility to see these numbers somewhere? Can't find a useful answer per google.
thanks
19:22 yeah I think an army of like 5000 goblins would actually be worse than a giant lmao
Why the fuck 20 mins to explain something so simple, for the love of god.
Dude this is amazing. I kept wondering what the hell was going on when I had more guys than them. Now I know why.
So in other words increasing ammo capacity and replenishing ammunition is pretty huge.
Does vigour influence the CP, furthermore, do different units have different values of vigour?For example, does an empire spearman unit have the same initial vigour as a high elf spearman? Id honestly be interested in such stats
I believe all vigour is a universal number, so same for everyone. The only exception is units which don't suffer vigour loss. Like Grail Knights. But not 100%.
@@Zerkovich Hmmm, ok, but then the whole squad gets tired if any member of it is fighting right? Which would make vigour more "efficient" per say in lower count units that can actually all engage at once, which would also punish (in a way) vertical formations,its just seems oddly implemented.
Appreciate the answer cheers
RIP monetized video
Great as always
Cornholio is triggered that you don't have TP for him... XD
so that's why enemies stay a lot longer if i play ranged heavy armies: my ammo is worth as much as their lives. that's stupid
So this is the mechanic that causes older total war purist to get the butt pains. I honestly like it, stops fights from dragging out like in Medieval 2 where you'd just have 1 or 2 units trying to hold out against 4 to 5 times there numbers.
interesting but I think for most engagements you want to maximize army losses of the enemy so that they can't come back for a second try
pls do a video on auto resolve, you're killing it mate!
strange I also thought about combat potential
After he said it
elf archers have ungodly potential and cost 475
@zerkovich How do expendable units play into CP? Do they still lower the total amount of CP you had if they die?
I believe they do, but expendable units don't give the 'friends routing' leadership penalty to nearby units when they break.
*FBI has entered the chat* lmao oh, fucking dorks *FBI has left the chat*
hey does anyone would like to share from where can we find these data? i'd like to have a check of those rules of wh3 and 3k
so does that mean you could have an all ranged army use up all the ammo and get army losses without taking any casualties?
So the game does punish you for ranged spam. Nice.
You know you fucked up the moneys when there is no yellow dots on the video bar.
Lol youtube subtitle turns feral carnosour into feral connoisseur
now we know why ar favours missile units so fucking much