[TF2] Spy's Best Revolver
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ค. 2023
- A few years ago, I would have titled this video "Spy's Best Weapon." That was in the before times.
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Music used:
Sly Cooper and the Thevius Raccoonus OST
Berserk OST - Guts
Oahu Beach Stroll - • Oahu Beach Stroll - n... - เกม
![[TF2] Spy's Best Weapon](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jvfA553xnck/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Spy's Best Weapon](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] The Scorch Shot - Reignited](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xSYvoaTBT_k/mqdefault.jpg)
Imagine a spy revolver that gives him crits everytime he gets killed by someone.
Infinite crits
I actually think spy makes sense to have a weapon that does something after death tbh, WAY MORE than medic.
Finally, a spy revolver made for me!
It shall be called the true payback or something can you guy think of name for the weapon?.
@@bossbrozork3022hmmmmm,Phantom Vengeance?
If the Amby and the Revolver say "Spy has a gun", then the Diamond Back is screaming it.
Good lord it exists because it really makes spy feel not useless when it gets caught after stabbing someone and the whole the enemy team turns their head, at least you can kill the one chasing you reasonably fast and run the fuck away
And yes i know it's just OP but the same way Pyros won't stop using the Scorch shot because it's the best secondary objectyvely i won't stop using the Diamondback because it's objectively the only revolver that makes playing the worst class in the game not all that bad
@@bruschetta7711 Diamondback is certainly good for spy, but honestly, I really like how consistent the stock revolver is. It can 4-5 shot most of the classes and has decent falloff resistance
The le'tranger is the pea shooter
@@tvcat5096 nah, that’s the poor enforcer, the Le’tranger whispers “spy has a revolver” because it’s the sneaky one.
@@Slender_Man_186 but the enforcer does more damage than stock just slower, how is that a pea shooter?
Now we wait for the next installments of this series:
Spy’s best watch: The Dead Ringer
Spy’s best sapper: The Sapper
Spy’s best disguise kit: The Disguise kit
The dead ringer is spys worst watch 😭😭
@@randomperson7350 if you play spy like how spy should be played, then yes. if you forgo any type of stealth and just abuse the kunai, then the other watches have nothing.
@@areosmithwagon9890 yeah but that’s cringe
@@areosmithwagon9890 the kunai does well and good with literally any watch while not having the boring downside of waiting 20 seconds everytime I get hit for the cool down to wear off
@@areosmithwagon9890 tbh all this random cri- i mean high skill trickstab stuff will become completely unviable if the game only allowed backstabs if the spy was facing enemy's back for atleast 0.1 seconds.
The clip at 14:40 of nobody looking at you and you desperately slashing at backs, but not a single hit registers- is my life as spy. I get myself in the perfect position, flub 4 stabs, and die. Every time
Don't get me wrong, I'm awful at spy but I can't count how many time I see the back stab indicator (where he raises his knife) just for the opponent to turn a whole 10 degrees and I'm still facing his back but it registers as a butter knife
As a person who just got a PC for Christmas and has started playing spy, I relate to this. I miss perfect backstabs in the perfect position. But at the same time, someone will be facing me full on and I’ll somehow get behind them and kill them. Guess that’s life as a spy
1:35 totally unrelated but massive respect to the pyro who very easily could’ve used their flamethrower to catch you out but instead decides to bitch slap you repeatedly
I had to complete my Hot Hands contract somehow. I was so close to being done with all the contracts! 😩
Hot hand=Best pyro melee.
14:41 bro that clip hits on another level tho 💀
This is the average spy gameplay
I swear that's actually a clip of me playing spy
That is what happens when I play spy, every time I go to do ANYTHING as the spy shit hits the fan and light speeds for some reason. Like I hardly ever see the backstab animation because it never FUCKING SHOWS UP AND I NEVER GET BACKSTABS AND JUST FUCKING DIE... Anyways I'm pretty sure that was a clip of me playing spy.
brother didn't hit a clip
he lightly touched a crop 💀
@@jjl2844 what
I feel like the frontier justice would only be comparable to the diamondback if it also gave you crits for used dispensers and teleporters.
Since the Diamondback rewards you for just playing Spy normally, the equivalent would be if building sentries, buildings or teleporters awarded you crits.
That would be farmable/exploitable.
@@ludwigiapilosa508Gee! You think?
@@leithaziz2716playing spy normally means dying after first backstab. Spy is not a sniper, its a high risk - high reward class, it's not just a sweat cs:go player who imstalled tf2 2 days before and going into the pubstomp just because most of tf2 payload maps full of sightlines which you can't avoid
@@NibelungenwarmongersNo it isn't. Playing Spy well means either you can get a chainsaw or you can run away after a stab.
I think giving a few seconds on minicrits is a good idea. Let the ambassador be the revolver to use when you are sneaky and line up your shot to get a pick with your revolver and let the diamond back be better at going guns blazing to clean up people nearby to a player you just stabbed
That sounds very fun actually. Take 1 stab and now you are gunspy.
The problem is that changing it to mini crits gives it an extra 9 damage from stock, basically making it worthless.
Temporary viable Gunspy could be a cool idea.
@@thebushbros6626remember mini crits dont have fall off though, you get slightly more damage but you also get infinite range
Minicrits that deal a tiny amount more damage then stock, at least the diamondback is now sandman tier.
I always felt the Diamondback and the Ambassador rewarded the player for the same thing: consistency. If you can consistently get headshots with the amby, then it's really good. If you can backstab a lot, then the Diamondback is really good. Unfortunately, the skill ceiling is far taller on the Amby's part rather than the Diamondback, which can make the Diamondback feel a lot more impactful for a lot less, which makes every other option feel obsolete.
O o f.
Well said
The biggest balance misstep behind the Ambassador and the Diamondback is that the Amby was nerfed because it could snipe enemies from afar, so they tried mitigating that with damage falloff. The Diamondback's crit-shots aren't affected by falloff. So they can do the same things that made pre-nerf Amby controversial, but for far less work. Which circles back to why the Amby needed to be nerfed in the first place.
I don't like getting two-shot from across half the map, but you can already do that with the Diamondback, and without needing to land headshots.
I feel part of the issue is that the Diamondback also rewards you for sapping buildings, if they were to keep the mechanic at very least make it only counts to Sentries, not even Minies.
@@sussy3778 The Diamondback on launch only gave crits on sapped buildings. But that made it underpowered since it relied on the enemy team having an Engineer, and that made the weapon extremely situational.
You mean skill floor. A skill celing describes the limitations of how good you can get at something if you put in the time. A skill floor is how little skill you need to be effective. The skill floor on the amby is far, far higher as a player who doesn’t have good revolver aim is super unlikely to be able to use this gun at all, while that guy using the diamondback after getting a stab or sapping a random building which isn’t the most difficult against unaware teams gets to have a random chance of popping someone in the knee with 102 damage
A fun exploration of a really busted weapon, always a fun time with Professor Fische.
Its only busted because people have no idea how to turn around lmao
how did you comment this 14 hors ago if the video was posted 1 hour ago wtf?
@@kamion8298 Channel members are given early viewing, usually only about half a day.
@@numpy979 How does "turning around" help when your friendly Scout turns into an enemy Spy as you get 103 damage cleaved off your HP? You do know this is a REVOLVER video, right?
@@KyleLyre13I think he didn't watch the video and thought it was a video about the kunai or something (however,this doesn't make sense because the title and thumbnail show a revolver...)
You know how to completely solve the problem? Remove the Spy's ability to see enemy's health when the Diamondback is equipped. It completely negates the "sniping crits" aspect of the weapon, because he now cannot pick and choose his targets but has to rely on intuition or luck to get those two taps.
I like this balance change
That changes practically nothing. That doesn’t fix any of the inherent problems with giving a Spy free revolver crits at little cost to himself and no change to his playstyle. The only difference is that Spy is now incapable of *maximizing* his free crits. And let me tell ya, *maximizing* something is a drop in the bucket when the problem is how much it is being *abused.*
That’s a solid change, but not on its own. The Diamondback needs much more significant nerfs than just the loss of a passive Solemn Vow.
@@TheNorfAndOnly Nerfing it too much though would probably make it completely useless though. At least in my opinion, most weapons that have had too much of a change from their core sidegrade idea got scrapped entirely.
When you're have to scrap for meaningful downsides so hard that you go with "it's not this other gun" you know the situation is bad.
Gotta be honest, I already knew everything you were gonna say in this video before I even started watching it. Major props on the entertainment value though! Your writing is impeccable.
The Diamondback is spy main's revenge on everyone who has kill them.
The hardest part of the diamond back is the mental toll of having all this power and the 99% chance of missing every single shot due to a mix of incompetence and anxiety
Now I’m imagining the diamondback with a max of 3 stored Crits and -15% cloak.
As someone that uses the YER especially with the Diamondback, that would be atrocious
I think only 3 crits is a bit harsh. I mean the Frontier Justice's crit cap is 35.
@@mariustan9275yeah but again only 3 shots at a time, has shotgun spread so it can't be a diet sniper and only reloads one shot at a time as opposed to all 6 at a time.
But I agree that a critn cap of 3 is too harsh, 6-10 is more reasonable
@@plbsterAlso I’d say if a spy somehow manages to get 6 whole crits and not dying then they should have little problem getting more anyways
Sure just nerf the worst class in the game's primary options even more. Already lost the amby
0:25 whoever made that thumbnail is probably really cool and good looking I think haha
Yeah ikr, must be like, really good at the game too or something
Spy main here! While I do agree that this weapon is in need of a rebalance, one thing that I don't see talked about very often is the inability to sap and shoot effectively with the Diamondback. Especially on payload defense, your most important task as Spy is to take out the enemy teleporters, but this can apply to all Engineer buildings. Sapping a building and not following up with the revolver is a huge detriment as Spy, since it takes quite a while for a sapper to destroy the building by itself (6 seconds for a level 1, 7.2 for a level 2, and 8.64 for a level 3). Without shooting a building, that's a huge amount of time for the enemy Engineer to react and remove the sapper. But on top of this, sappers give buildings resistance to damage.
This coupled with the Diamondback's lower damage means that it'll often take an entire clip to destroy something such as a teleporter entrance. If you have crits stored up, suddenly you're burning all of the reward that you've earned up until that point. Also not to mention that destroying a building with a sapper attached by shooting it does not give Spy a crit when using the Diamondback. While I understand the sentiment of the weapon rewarding Spy for doing his job, I find it a bit more nuanced than upon first glance.
Great video though! I enjoy the points that you were able to make about it being a bit more niche of a pick compared to weapons such as the L'etranger and Kunai. Looking forward to your future uploads.
Eeeh not that much of an issue tbh
As spy i usually sap and shoot the revolver 3 times (or more) with or without crits, DB crits are not like Medic Ubers and are much more expandable
Anyway that technic allows the teleporter to have just enough health to die by the sapper much more quickly, and the other entry or exit if not guarded will still reward you the crit (alltho that doesn't happen always)
I mean alternatively you can just look at the top of your screen and see if anyone on the enemy team is dead and waiting to respawn, if no one is then you can simply keep sapping the entrance until it eventually destroys, even if the engie is on the exit breaking your sapper since he wont have time to heal the teleporter. Also you could try taking the teleporter because 9/10 the engie is jose.gonzales2009 who keeps his teleporter exit glued to his nest instead of an actual good position for his team to advance and then you either backstab him or telefrag him.
I know why no one pick this gun despite how OP it is, extra cloak man
Yeah, spies who even use their gun at all are rare, though thankfully GunSpy is gaining traction so I think eventually we're going to see a sea of stock revolver chads
Nah I don’t need those I enjoy spy in vanilla the most
Because revolver suuuucks, it has a fat bullet spread forcing the spy to wait a whole second between shots.
not even extra cloak, it just gets boring after using it for a bit, and the kills arnt even rewarding. there's something about sneaking behind your enemies and using something like TER and just getting some nice sneaky kills
YER*
Can I just say that those dual crit diamondbacks in the thumbnail look extremely satisfying?
1:24 That Pyro being dedicated to slapping the shit out of you really got me 😂
That was literally me lmao. I was trying to complete my last Pyroland Contract 😅
The biggest downside this thing has is the fact it's on spy
That's the thing that everyone forgets, kunai and diamondback seem like the most OP weapons in existence until you remember it's on the only class that can be countered purely through good game sense.
@@captainweekend5276 kunai can’t be countered by good game sense because no matter how smart you are Jose.Gonzalez.2012 is not turning around. Same goes for diamondback, which recently got bug fixed to give 2 crits per backstab now
@@bobertastic6541 Just because your bullshit indeserved random melee crit cant kill the spy doesnt make the amount of health busted. 210 hp is nothing when you literally stab someone and the entire team starts hunting you. There are so many moments where i die because of the -55 hp and so many moments where i live thanks to the extra hp. It counteracts itself.
"But my teammate bad", there are so many god damn weapons that benefit from the other team having bad players, but apparently thats only worth talking about when its a spy. Frontier justice, all the soldier banners, ubersaw, vitasaw, BFB, soda popper, literally every item in the game that has a meter that increases with damage or something related to other players. Or how about the entire crit ramp-up mechanic where just because you killed some people in the enemy team you deserve to kill the others without it being fair.
I mean some of these examples are also really funny. There are so many weapons in the game where theyre the "absolute best for the spot" and thus are overpowered, but only the kunai and diamondback face that issue apparently. What about the literal ubersaw? How many medics do you see not using it? None if theyre all good at the game. %25 uber because the enemy is too stupid to not realize youre there? Especially when its on the same class that has a %60 to crit because healing also counts towards ramp-up? I mean come on.
@@eurasian8492the difference is that medic doesn’t have the ability to go invisible, and is also significant more likely to get shot just because he’s a medic. The kunai completely nullifying any damage I’ve done to a spy because he back stabs someone with less brain cells that the char im sitting on is insanely frustrating, especially since it also extinguishes, making it almost jsut a better spycicle too. The kunai is a crutch for spies that can’t pick their fights properly, so instead of learning how to approach or who to approach, they pick a knife that assuming they get one stab in will safety net them away. Nice try comparing medics ubersaw to the kunai, truly French levels of cope.
@@eurasian84921. The kunai turns people into health packs so you can just face tank 2k damage as long as they keep feeding. 2. If a medic is able to hit you with his melee and live he deserves the 25% Uber.
The main issue is that the diamond back is irritating to use as a spy. Its hard to use optimally because it encourages you to backstab lone targets and sap unguarded buildings so you don't die and immediately lose your crits. It's incredibly (overly) powerful, but the upside of the stranger also powerful and way more consistent.
3:21
“Spy is a limited class, with very limited playstyle range.”
I think Jontohil2 over in spy psychology would disagree.
As someone who doesn’t really play the game as much as I find it interesting, hearing someone say “the butter knife finisher” unironically may be the funniest thing ever.
Have you tried VSH Saxton Hale mode since the summer update?
@@seronymusYeah
@@AmalekIsComing HOW DO YOU FIND AND TORMENT ME AAAAAA AAAAA T_T
@@seronymusit’s in the misc section
@@seronymus I haven’t. the shooter genre as a whole hasn’t been something that I’ve played as much as I appreciate it.
12:07 it's not even just that, as at least, at least the ambassador required skill to do that, as you needed to headshot even at those ranges. The diamond back does everything the ambassador used to do ON A BODY SHOT! EVEN BACK THEN IT WAS BETTER, THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A FEW SECONDS? PEOPLE WERE SO BUSY SUCKING OFF THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS THE WHOLE TIME, AND NOBODY NOTICED? THAT'S INSANE!
This is because of irrational anti-spy bias.
People hated being killed by spies, in any way, shape, or form... Because they knew that it's the worst class in the game, and they only have themselves to blame, if they get killed by a spy... Therein lies the source of this bias... Few people like having to blame themselves for their own failures in games... After all, adult children are the main demographic playing games like this... And they have fragile egos.
So they btch and moan, cry and whine, for nerfs to the weakest class in the game... Especially for items with a high skill ceiling, like the ambassador... Because if the worst class in the game, kills you with SKILL, then their ego's are hurt even more, because an underdog just outclassed them in every way. :P
They would rather be killed with a random crit, so they can make the excuse that dying wasn't their own fault and that the opponent isn't skilled, rather than get killed with a well-aimed shot to the head by a weakling.
EDIT: Kinda similar deal with the Dead Ringer, people suddenly couldn't easily get rid of the weakest class in the game anymore, and since they feel ENTITLED to easy kills on the weakest class in the game, they call for nerfs to the only item that allowed spy the ability to survive attempting backstabs. :P
Granted some of the nerfs were obviously warranted, but... reducing the damage from 99% down to 66% was not warranted, at all... That ruined the dead ringer, and honestly, it wouldn't have been so bad, if it wasn't for the fact that they buffed pyro's flamethrower, they quadroupled pyro's flamethrower hitboxes to make it impossible to skillfully evade in-between the hitboxes. Meaning even regular invis-watch spies are now thrice as cucked as they were before... : /
And then ontop of that they added this dogsht wall-hack effect while you're dead, and a few seconds after you spawn, to make it even worse for spies, who already had it really bad.
Spies can't catch a break, because of entitlement from low-skill fragile-ego, non-spy mains crying about the game... : /
Great video! I really like the idea for the rebalance, and think it'd be an extremely crazy combo with the Big Earner. High speed and several seconds of mini-crits on a backstab would make fights so much more intense!
I think a fair nerf would be that the crits of the diamondback has to be popped like the crikey meter, but it drains all of your cloak. With that it’ll prevent dead ringing away and decrease the odds of escape and make fighting more a commitment
Also comes with the additional bonus of forcing the spy to choose a time to use all his crits before he loses them all
The diamondback and ambassador are kinda like Spy's version of the bushwacka and the tribalman's shiv. They accomplish similar things, one just is far, far more reliable than the other.
I think the Diamondback is more analogous to Engi’s Frontier Justice
Isnt the tribalmans just objectively the worst option?
@TheMuffinman191 with minicrits it does more damage than stock. It's designed to be used alongside jarate, but... it's worse than the bushwacka at the same thing
@@FlishonyanKing Only if the bleed runs the whole 8 seconds, otherwise it does 50% less damage just straight up. Stock still out dps’s it minicrits or not simply because bleed is irrelevant.
My thought process on why they didn't give the Diamondback the amby range nerf, is because to get a crit in the first place, you'll have to be melee to either sap a building or get a backstab and at that point, you're usually near someone else to use it on anyways.
What separates Frontier Justice and Diamondback the most is that, the Spy revolver is a last resort and the Frontier Justice is the primary weapon of the entire class.
But the frontier justice is a "oh shit" weapon your sentry (engies main source of damage if they're competent) is down so you have a beefed up primary to deal with the inevitable push that comes with a dropped sentry (assuming stock wrench ofc) but the diamondback is more so "all according to kaikaku, I got a stab on a Gibbs heavy and now I will become a super soldier with a hitscan pipe launcher
@@getaround1276 Yes the sentry gun will have more kills than the primary at moves times, but the point I'm trying to make is that an Engineer uses his shotgun a lot more than the Spy uses his revolver ideally.
@@getaround1276 It's also cheesy weapon to get assists with mini-sentry and then go on offensive.
@@getaround1276No if you’re bad or on a shit team the frontier justice is an “oh shit” weapon. Competent engies know when they’re safe to destroy and rebuild their gun to snowball into the enemy team.
Really enjoyed the comparison to the FJ with this video, Fish! Great stuff
I never asked for this
I never asked for
I never asked
I never
I
I shine
I shine like
I shine like a
I shine like a diamond-back
We're beautiful like Diamondbacks in the sky
Shine on, you crazy Diamondback
you mentioned 'visual feedback' being important to balanced class weapons. I think that's why people have beef with sniper tbh.
the warnings and feedback to a sniper are really minor, so its often annoying when a sniper kills you from afar.
Always love the Sly Cooper music choice. Great video as always :)
what if...
hear me out.
The Diamond back, instead of a damage penalty, gives a cloak penalty? Like, cloak drains twice as fast while equipped.
Twice as fast??? That would make this weapon unusable spy’s cloak would be too short. Why do you think the YER is so rarely picked.
I think it's set around the gameplay, The diamond back is that one trick pony of stab then shoot and is limited by how many crits are stored which can be lost at any time.
The revolver you mentioned, I don't want to try to spell has better utility, since spy basically only uses his knife, and uses his gun when he HAS to.
Ambi spies consider themselves skilled enough to get headshots that they don't need to rely on stored crits and they can switch to gun spy whenever
As a spy main, I spare my opponent's sanity and sacrifice my own by not equipping the diamondback.
Cuckold
@2:20
> spicy takes > "the kunai is busted as hell"
...Wait, that's a *_spicy_* take? Bruh.
Also, the Diamondback should've gone back to Mini-Crits ever since it got the reward from backstabs as well; the only literal reason it was buffed to Crits in the first place was because Engi buildings weren't always available... just give it a mvm upgrade that'd turn said mini-crits into crits, the weapon is unironically the best anti-tank weapon for the Spy because of all the crits.
*Whips out Amby* "Oh, you got a gun! Let's do this!"
*Whips out D. Back* "OH SHIT, HE'S GOT A GUN!"
Diamondback also has the issue of falling into "crit-syndrome" where you manage to miss even MORE of your shots than normally.
I think the simple range falloff nerf should suit it fine.
If you did that, it'd objectively just be a crutch for folks that can't hit headshots
Where are these spies that don't just run Diamondback, DR, and Kunai? Plz share /s
In all honesty, that idea of minicrits post backstab sounds good, a damage potential boost, without having spy escape and save crits to ruin someone's day. Far too often people forget the no damage fall off from his crits makes it infinitely better than the Diamondback.
Because the Dr Kunai spies typically tend to favour the l'Etranger for it's ability to recover cloak meter for the Dead Ringer.
If the DR was buffed to... once again, reduce damage by 99% so you can survive using it at low health to actually fake your death... The kunai would fall out of meta, and the Diamondback would replace, or become equal to, the l'Etranger in the meta... People would likely run DR, Big Earner (+30% cloak meter on backstab for the DR), and Diamondback, or as i like to call that meta "Dr. BigBack"! :3
inside you there are two guns:
IT'S AMBASSADOVER
WE'RE DIAMONDBACK
Sniping medics across the map is a guilty pleasure
You are a horrible person
-A medic main
You'd think with how many busted weapons Fish says Spy has, that Spy would be an absolute menace just tearing through lobbies
The kunai and diamondback, am I missing anything else?
@@user-pj1ec5om5g Just those two, same amount of attention he's given to Sniper's busted weapons (though, one video less if you count his video on Sniper as a whole). Difference is though, mostly due to the bot crisis and people just plain cheating, Sniper *has* been tearing through lobbies
Remember, Spy is the weakest class in the game, except when its not, but even then it still is. Though it actually isnt. Yet it is.
Sniper main bias. Note everything he complains about directly counters sniper, he literally gets upset that other people get to shoot back. It's why he acts like spy is OP for dealing 102 damage on an earned crit but acts like quickscope headshots that do 150 in the blink of an eye are perfectly balanced.
Hot take: The diamondback isn’t OP it’s just spy’s other revolver’s (including stock) are a little too weak. In addition to the diamondback just being the best out of a redundant situation where it, the amby, and enforcer all go for extra ‘situational’ damage.
Exactly what I'm saying
Stock can duel most classes pretty effectively what ? It being weaker than the other classes' primaries is INTENDED, it's meant as a last-resort when all other options are exhausted (you can't escape because the enemy is too close and noticed you ir your cloak is nowhere to be seen). Imagine if the sneaky baguette man who can appears anywhere on the map, be just as effective as a Scout in term of raw firepower. The Ambassador' 102 damage at close-range is a life savior when you meet an injured enemy around the corner below that health threshold, you can just one-tap them and continue on your little tomfooleries. L'Étranger loses on that last-resort strenght with increased cloak uptime, lowering the amount of time you'll be in those "last-resort" moments at the cost of them being much less possible to get out of them.
The Diamondback is incredibly boring as it adds nothing to gameplay. The Enforcer on paper is pretty cool ; ignoring all defense buffs and dealing more damage while disguised, which encourages you to be an.... actual assassin ; betraying those who trusted in your disguise with a powered shot while they are caught off guard (hence the resistance bypass, they are not ready for it), too bad resistances are incredibly uncommon and the damage bonus being not very noticeable.
Spy being weak in most situations is fine, imagine if a class could one-shot anyone regardless of their health from anywhere on the map, clearly, that would be complete aids to fight.
@@vivelespatat2670 Nah the Revolver straight up out dps’s shotguns at mid to close range, its far from a last resort, it honestly should be the first one.
i love dealing 102 damage from any range for backstabbing the gibus engineer
Maybe lower the amounts of bullets this revolver can fire and have its firing rate raised in exchange for slowly building up partial mini-crits that slowly turn into full crits at about 30-60 seconds after the first bullet gets full mini-crits, and changes how you obtain crits from one backstab or one destroyed sapped building to four backstabs or sapping buildings (which could buff the red-tape recorder by keeping a building alive and grinding out a few crits that you can use to full crit the engineer trying to defend their buildings or knock out a Pybro) for 1 mini-crit, after four more you get 1 full crit.
Oh, and also, if you try to go for a sentry gun, then unless if you are a sentry-busting class like Dragon's Fury and/or HomeWreckor Pyros, a Soldier or Demoman that can deal damage, a Spy, or even a Heavy, you can decide to nope your way out of actually destroying it. Unlike a Diamondback Spy, which all they need is a back or a sentry busted and voila! They have crits and no one should know they have them or that they will use them. Oh, and this is on top of FishStickOnAStick's argument that the Diamondback doesn't have nearly the same drawbacks as the Frontier Justice.
How about adding a single line to fix the Diamondback?
“Cannot crit while disguised”
Average virgin Diamondbackcel vs giga chad Enforcer-pilled Spy player
billions must stab
...vs guy who runs the stock revolver because he's not going for anything flashier than a job well done
Keep coping.
I have a strange Diamondback, but I never use it. Crits give me anxiety and I miss all my shots.
I think I read somewhere that when you have crits you become 90% less accurate. Not sure if that’s true tho
Same lol, I can't use the damn thing either because of crit anxiety
We had to basically rebuild the Hot Take Spiciness Gauge when Fish made that take about Pyro being worse than spy. That one's so hot it makes the surface of the sun feel icy.
The sticky bomber launcher doing these sins but worse and getting off Scot free from criticism is wild.
Spy is funny since like, his weapons are all really well balanced... besides a single one in each slot which is immensely better then all the rest.
I know, the stock sapper is ridiculous
My balance idea for the Diamondback has been decrease either your cloak, health or both. Make it a high-risk high-reward gun. It rewards you for playing Spy normally, so why not make it harder?
Make it into a "double or nothing" type of item... Double the risk, double the reward, not a bad idea, honestly, but really i think they should just transfer some of the nerfs on the amby, to the diamondback instead... 'cus the amby needs a buff, as it's an item that rewards aiming skill, and the only appropriate nerf for that gun, is the lack of skill of it's user.
20% slower firing speed, and crit damage falloff? Makes no sense for the ambassador... But that does make sense for the diamondback as you don't need headshots to critically hit with it, so damage falloff, and slower firing speed makes sense for a gun that just needs to bodyshot! : /
The dimond back would be like scout getting a boost with his shotgun simply for moving...wait
"You need to make each shot count" *misses a point blank stationary medic*
Honestly, I think the Diamondback would be best balanced if it also received the damage fall off on crits that the Ambassador currently has.
Ambassdor is the only weapon in the entire game which has damage fall-off for crits that make it worthless.
I think the reason you don't see a lot of spies using it is a mix of the stigma and that it's kinda boring. Since it doesn't change how you play at all it just feels kinda meh to use even if it is a straight upgrade in 95% of scenarios. Compare that to the amby or the letranger which gives a mechanical skill (plus the dopamine on the lil green headshot text) and the passive cloak. As for the kunai, well that also signifcantly changes how the spy plays before and after a backstab.
I am always a fan of the Sly Cooper background music on the spy videos. Just an extra little hit of nostalgia.
The biggest reason why the Frontier justice is better designed than the Diamondback is that the Frontier justice is a shotgun and the Diamondback is a revolver, one requires being up close, the other can be fired from any range with perfect accuracy. When your bullets have 0 fall-off, one gun is inherently superior when it has crits even though the other can technically do more damage. Because to get that damage, you need to put yourself way out of your safety zone and run towards the people that could kill you in seconds, hoping to get close enough that you can one shot them. Unless they are a soldier or heavy, in which case your probably just boned if their at full health. Soldier would have hit 3 rockets by the time you got there and no one wants to be up close and personal with a revved up heavy.
Spy has to risk getting instantly sent back to spawn to even get the crits. Meanwhile Scouts will feed the Frontier Justice for free.
@@EinSilverRose Yes because teleporters don't exist, and because stab and sap doesn't exist, and because lone dispensers with no one guarding them don't exist, and because oblivious snipers don't exist, and most of all because clearly the engineer isn't losing his main method of damage in order to get those crits.
Imo the Diamondback is not as OP as people think, its just they play Spy like they can only backstab and call people that actually use their primary weapon to kill stuff a "gun spy"
"Gun spy" is just using your gun to pick off low health targets and is really strong, basically how valve intended the class to be played. Diamondback is worse at this until you actually get stabs and survive
This. People are so used to killing spies by pressing m1 even when theyre not aware that theres a spy in front of them that the idea of the spy surviving (kunai) or even killing them (diamondback) is insane to them.
These people should really use these weapons with the "rebalances" (complete nerf that makes the weapon unusable) and see how badly they do. Well, especially since they never play spy. Because its the worst class in the game. And they know it.
@@eurasian8492 the kunai is a feeder weapon that is inherently unfun to fight because it makes the spy you just noticed practically invincible as long as there is an unaware back in his way
the diamondback is the same except he just shoots you
You can do this with the diamondback too
I've done it
I main spy
@@NotFine You can, but the diamondback is objectively worse at killing people until you get stabs or saps. There is a tradeoff
@@jjjjjjjjjjjjjjo there's a trade off but it's like trading an old cup for a pound of gold
It's just not equal
Fixing the Diamondback:
Instead of Crits, stores Energy.
1 Energy = 1 Mini-Crit
2 Energy = 1 Crit.
You get 1 in place what would earn you 1 crit.
You can right click at any time to convert your current energy to a mini crits, or say you have 3 energy, 1 crit, then a mini crit.
(Every 2 energy you have is consumed, turned into a crit, if you have an odd number, you just get 1 mini crits after the crits)
You can also convert the crits back into energy, energy is lost on death.
YUCK! Nope! Leave it the way it is. Comp players are just too salty that crits are never going to be removed from the game! 😂
Kind of a terrible idea, lol.
4:04 Hey, Fish! You killed a Pyro main by the name of "Rat (real)" who I actually became friends with about a month ago with the Diamondback in the SAME game!
...AND I was confirmed that my friend was that SAME person!
People play different classes for different reasons. Usually spy mains accept the added challenge of being in a constant disadvantage when out in the open, but I'm not seeing the same attidude play out when i.e. people hog the scortch shot for pyro because it's a straight ugrade for the flare gun. You don't try to min-max easymode in a class that's made to be a challenge to run every time. The amby was a good challenge to improve your aim along with the necessary maneuvering behind enemy lines, and extremely satisfying when you pulled off those headshots, and that's party why people still use it more than the diamondback, for instance. There's no gratification for earning a kill.
I think the reason more people don’t use the diamondback is due to gratification level. You play spy for the feeling of a good back or chain stab. It gives you a good feeling that is hard to replicate with a gun. It’s how spy can be so weak as a class, and still be so popular in pubs. Sure the gun is effective, but is it really that gratifying compared to stabs? Plus, with the diamondback, you fall into that habit of constantly dying with lots of crits, which can make using the gun feel more frustrating than gratifying.
I think the Diamondback would work as a weaker weapon with explosive rounds that you can slowly upgrade by stealing metal.
It'd still have that aspect of rewarding you for kills and building destruction, but it would be suitably different from the Ambi and it would never get to the same heights as the current Diamondback.
Edit: the starting stats would fire 30% slower, deal 25% less damage, cause a small explosion on hit that deals 50% of the damage of the main shot, have a 17% smaller clip, reload 20% slower, and make you unable to cloak while it is active.
You can upgrade these stats with metal, increasing firing speed to full, damage by 10% to a max of -5%, clip size by 1 to a max of 7, and reload speed by 10% to a maximum of 10% faster.
Is this just Ster_ with a sore throat?
The voice, the attitude, the comedic timing, shooting people as spy, ect.
Am I just having flashbacks because of the spy footage?
14:41 has to be the most painful clip I’ve ever watched, I audibly let out a sigh because of it
The only thing you have to do to fix the Dimond back is to add falloff and remove it getting crits from buildings.
After that it would just be the amby for backstabs instead of headshots.
The diamond back is a interesting case where the better you are at being spy and getting backstab the better (more annoying) it becomes
Edit: just like the dumb Konai
It's actually the opposite. The diamondback is only good if you have stupid players on the enemy team.
@@Gimfigle496 yes that is true but if the spy can’t do crap then the diamond back won’t change the fact that the spy is useless (also I’m confused how thats the opposite)
@@Blazesoldier You seem to have inadvertently agreed with me. The diamondback against a smart team is worse than stock, but against a dumb team it's his best primary.
@@Gimfigle496wow almost as if 90% of spies effectiveness as a whole depends on the incomptence of the enemy team
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 wow it's almost like that's my point, smartass!
I think when you have crits on your Diamondback when you go in disguise your disguise gun will be glowing and it will have 3 or 4 Bullets in the chamber and you can fire your gun well disguised. I don't know will be right amount in the chamber 4 or 3 bullets?
At this point i think that listening to fish stick talk about spy in any form for me counts as a form of digital self harm
They could change it so the crit shot costs 2 bullets instead of 1. So you have 6 normal weaker shots or 3 guaranteed crits in the gun. Will function a lot like the frontier justice but that isn't a bad thing since its a fun weapon.
Too op, are you a spy main? This is still just the same problem the smaller clip that balanced the frontier justice is that if you don't have crits it's a straight downgrade 3 less shots is huge but with this change it changes literally nothing since 102 dmg is enough to 2 shot 8 out of 9 classes
I like the concept of the Diamondback, but would rather it be reworked to something like you only have a clip size of 4 but every backstab gives 2 mini crit shots and sap gives 3
Nope, leave it the way it is.
16:52 and then there’s me using stock revolver because it’s a strange variant
I love that Sly Cooper background music. Blast from the past.
"comparing the frontier justice to the diamondback is false equivalency" is massive cope lol
Literally how
@@randomperson7350 Class does thing it already does and gets rewarded for it with guaranteed crits at the cost of overall DPS. His argument about having to blow up the sentry is wrong in multiple regards.
I remember a few years back when weapon steryotypes was new i saw the diamondback and thought "why is the ambassador meta and not this?" The diamondback isnt overpowered it's just that it makes all the other revolvers redundant, it rewards you for doing what a good spy should do
If i would balance it i would go with something like the FJ, 4 shots instead of 6, only rewards backstabs like the kunai and maybe instead ofjust a crit it would be a damage buff until it does twice the damage of stock
I'd say make the diamondback more like the frontier justice. Bring the clip size to 4 and bring the damage penalty to 20% rather than 15% with a slight range falloff that the ambassador has, maybe to a less extent though. That way, spies will actually have to be able to aim and be at close range to make full use of this thing. And it is more punishing if you do miss your shots.
Busted stuff for spy feels so sad, like he can run in with a kunai, get a couple backstabs to get a couple crits on his diamond back then take out a soldier or demo or two in the chaos and it all takes managing to get behind the enemy team in the first place, nobody turning around despite the backstabs and shooting, and the spy hitting every stab and shot.
Meanwhile a demo just shoots a couple stickies at a choke or a soldier fires a clip of rockets at a choke or one of them just happens to get a random crit and wipes out 4 players in seconds. I honestly don't get how more people don't complain about soldier mains being the main pick of sweatlords when they wanna pub stomp and the overall ease of doing so in comparison.
I could see the Diamondback getting a treatment similar to the Frontier Justice: give up half/one-third of your clip, get slower firing speed, and make it so you can only shoot crits when undisguised.
My idea for balancing this weapon is giving a timer on the crits, or a longer timer on mini crits. Basically if you don't use the crits, you lose them, which would either force spies to play more aggressive and get themselves killed to not waste potential damage, or to use a straight downgrade. However, it would still be strong when used at the right time. The two main skills of TF2 are aim and positioning, the ambi rewards aim, so this would reward positioning and timing.
If it has to be one of them, gun is much more deserving of the critical damage falloff the ambassador got, and both of them should have the hard cap on crit/headshot range
Weapon Nerf Idea: Limit the range of crit shots. The concept is that every time you fired the Diamondback, the empowered shots would only apply their bonus damage if you hit them within close range (say, twice the range of Spy's knife as an example), as well as only if you're undisguised. Meanwhile if you hit a shot without satisfying both of these conditions, the shot will work like normal and the crit will be used up without applying any bonus damage. With these changes, the following would be achieved whilst still keeping the core concept and incentives of the Diamondback intact:
1. It allows enemy players to know more easily what they're up against and reasonably adjust how they approach the matchup (and/or be more capable of saving a teammate you target).
2. It gives a much stronger incentive to use the Ambassador, which even in its nerfed state is SUPPOSED to be the strongest revolver at long range.
3. Spy would still have a way to dump damage onto opponents but would be at greater risk when doing so.
In short, I'd like the Diamondback to work as a diet backstab instead of a busted sniping tool. With this nerf idea rather than remain able to effortlessly cheese any matchup, you would put effort into assassinating a player and then be rewarded with a SLIGHTLY easier time taking out your next target in roughly the same way.
what if we made the diamondback a melee weapon guys, i think that would fix it
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413Yeah and 90% damage penalty.
1:25 Nothing is scarier, than an Ubered Hothand Pyro, trying to slap the helll out of you😂.
2:22 why isn't "demoknight is overpowered" on the spicy side of this bar? 🤔
Because he doesn't say demoknight is OP, he says the eyelander is op, which is true.
@@vyor8837 With how often I hear him complain about the Shields (complaining about both the resistances they give and the charges cleansing most debuffs), he absolutely does not only complain about the Eyelander
@@IceColdPistol oh he complains, just doesn't say they're entirely OP.
Honestly the best nerfs I can think of increasing the damage penalty or reducing the clip size to 1
literally 0 attempt to pronounce l'etranger and just goes 'hon hon hon' fucking amazing lmaooo😂😂😂
Compression blast.
Hold on, you're telling me a shrimp fried this rice?
Air blast.
Helicopter.
Errblast.
Piece of piss!
ERRBLAST!
The diamondback sucks because it relies on you being able to rack up crits :') If you cant get crits it's just a worse revolver.
July 25 update:
> The Diamondback now gains 2 guaranteed crits upon backstab
now it's even better
That was for Versus Saxton Hale
You get crits when your equipment gets sapped and destroyed
I get crits just for doing my job
We are not the same
14:40 God DAMN, I felt that clip in my soul.
Here’s an idea for rebalance:
*Recoil: when using a crit, the spy forfeits 25 health per shot*
That may help solve the problem of diamond spies just spamming crusts without a cost
What if instead of damage it applied slowdown? So if you are gonna use those nice criteria you have, you better choose wisely and not do it in the middle of a huge fight you can't get away from. It would follow the normal idea of spies revolver as some self defense option and pick for certain targets from safety, but not something you can use to brute force youreay through an enemy team and bhopal away
@@simonbray3857 or maybe some way of ‘deactivating’ crits for either debuff? That way, the spy can still use his revolver normally, albeit at -15% damage, but still can use his crits at a price?
I'd give it a cleaner's carbine style crikey meter that fills on say 3 backstab or sapper kills that gives it mini crits for a time, Move the clip size down to 5, and maybe give it something like an increase to the time it takes to fully cloak/decloak.
Yeah I noticed the Diamonback isn't really common either. Even though Spy is my most played I actually don't think I've used it yet. I usually stick to stock or Amby.
Although I will say that I specifically don't like using the meta. I tend to use lesser used and often weaker options unless the meta is just that fun. So I don't use Diamonback, Deadringer nor the Kunai.
God it would be funny for a frontier justice to work like Diamond Back
From what I can tell, the reason why the Diamondback gets overlooked so much is because for the longest time, much like every other revolver, it was completely overshadowed by the Ambassador. If you weren't running the Ambassador with the Kunai (and maybe the Dead Ringer), you weren't a Serious Spy Main™as far as a lot of people were concerned, back in the day. Yeah, it's stupid.
Did you have an amputator video? I swear I remember watching someone saying it's not that good but I can't find it
reminds me of a popular quote
"players that do well will do even better" or something like that