It does, as do many other passages that say God loves the world, yes even sinners, and the so called unelected. And it proves the atonement of Jesus from Jesus is not limited, and that it is available to all people of the world, by grace through faith, when tney believe without exception. In short sin damns us all, not predestination, and Jesus saves us, not predestination, d6albation is available and saves all who believe by grace through faith. Even a stranger or family member or your child. Jesus is not an afterthought or second fiddle to predestination at all. With calvinism there is no need for satan or jesus, because everything was settled in a script and written before creation, and that cannot be change, and we are forcibly playing it out. Of course that is ludicrous. You can never come to calvinism with the plain reading of the bible, and the holy ghost, and common sense, and logic. It is a constructed systematic doctrine of men, by men, that attempts to limit the power of God and his image in earth, that being mankind, to its weak simplistic idea of them both, and its deterministic gnostic background. Puppets and puppeteer. By many well meaning but decieved people, who preach to the world that jesus more than likely did not die for you, and you cannot believe, simply from hearing the word, and the drawing of the holy spirit, and other means the bible lists as testimony of how to have faith and repent, instead they invent a mysterious event prior to belief that makes you born again before you believe?, contradicting the biblical order of salvation, because they believe predestination saves, not jesus, exceot in a secondary and limited, not primary unlimited manner. They limit the power of the cross to their imagined power of salvation by predestination, and then only to an elite respected persons of God group, with no way to know who they are, until the judgement. Meaning they startbto look at ones works as proof of salvation. and they actually say this, not all but many starting with the murderous john calvin himself, before you are born still in the womb as a baby, God dooms you to hell, and he makes mankind kill and rape, and abort, men can do nothing he does not determine and bring to pass, without exception, including evil, and thats a lie from satan himself.
And you are wrong. The world means all people jew and gentile whosoever every one. It means what it says and many also in other passages. Imagine that ? Jesus really loves you and offers salvation to you whoever you are by grace through faith without exception jew or gentile. Repent confess believe and fellowship and grow in the faith. You are not doomed from the womb.
salvation is offered to everyone, I agree. But show me in scripture where it says man has the ability to choose without God drawing Him first.
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@@thechorusinthechaos ok. So what you are saying is that God is a sadist Creator who offers salvation to people who are not able to accept, right? This is not the God I see in the Scriptures. Calvinism is a philosophical framework and when a calvinist reads the Bible, will always try to find a way to reconcile the text with that framework.
No man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open unto all men: neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief. John Calvin
The mere fact one has a need to explain arguably the most simplest important verse in the New Testament. Speaks volumes on the "PHILOSOPHY" of Calvinism.
that's a silly stance; the interpretation I have given is the natural reading of the text in its original context. It's moderns who have twisted it to mean something else. it was written by and directly for a first century audience.
@@thechorusinthechaos The reason I know your position is absolutely foolish is simple; scripture interprets scripture. In other words a myriad of other verses buttresses John 3:16. The epistle of Peter and Timothy bare witness off the top of my head. Probably a moot point you would just exegete er... eisegete the meaning out of those as well I would guess.
@@thechorusinthechaos 1 Tim 2:4-6. 2 Peter 3:9. I really don't mean to sound like a jerk but there is nothing to dialogue over. RE: your take in John 3:16 I have heard it before. Sometimes people try and be too smart by a half the saying goes. 1. Does God really love the world? 2. Did God give his only begotten Son? 3. Is it true that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Most plain people will get 3 out of 3. Men like Wycliff and Tyndale gave their lives to translate the Word of God (if memory serves). Then the supposed erudite says it was essential in vain (IMO) unless one really knows the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic. Rubbish! I can think of no major doctrine (soteriology, eschatology, pnuematology etc) turning on a better understanding of the English text of holy scripture. Have a blessed day brother. 2 Corinthians 11:3 NKJV - But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the "simplicity" that is in Christ.
Sir, Very good exegesis on John 3:16. I am always interested in peoples interpretation of this verse in relation to the teachings of John Calvin. The scriptures are clear that God quickens man to come to him. Blessings in Christ.
Amen, EXCELLENT job! Indeed context is key yet so many people are ignorant and posted their ignorant comments below. World means the elect from all the world (Revelation 5:9). We see in Psalm 5:5 and Psalm 11:5 that God hates the workers of iniquity and the wicked. He does not just hate their sins. He hates them just like David CLEARLY says. God loves only the elect.
That’s Hyper Calvinism. “Hate”, in the biblical context, means love less. God loves everyone, just not equally. We read that God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, which means that He loves the non-elect in some sense.
At 7:51 you seem pretty pleased with yourself coming to that Cavanist or Universalist. Sorry to burst your bubble but the "God won't force you to live with him" or "you can refuse the free gift of salvation " arguments of Armenians kinda blows that out of the water. Sorry.
when Jesus was raised up , He drew ALL men ...not that all men come...don't need the calvinist explanations of all and world ..or any explanations of what God's word says
No He did not draw all men. Jesus made the distinction of those who were drawn and those who were not. The apostle John is very clear that only those people that The Father has drawn can come to Jesus. This means that some are not drawn and cannot come to Jesus. Later John says that every man THAT HEARS AND HAS LEARNED of The Father will come to Jesus. This again means that some will not hear and will not learn thus cannot come to Jesus. Many are called. Few are chosen. Many means just that. Many. It doesn’t mean all.
The issue with saying "whoever" doesnt mean exactly that is to question literally all translations of the modern Bibles, which then in turn makes all translations questionable and convuluted to the regular lay person which then inturn makes those who are knowledge the source of truth and not the Bible anymore. To which I ask is The Holy Spirit unpurposely trying to confuse people? And if only those who are "knowledgable" can interpret scriptures correctly aren't we back again to the very thing the reformation was supposed to fight against?
the literal Greek rendering of that word is akin to "all the believing ones" - its a statement of fact that Jesus is making - all who believe will be saved.
@@thechorusinthechaos Thats your opinion though, And if so why would the translators instead use that rendering. I hope you can understand what your implying by saying "whoever" doesnt mean whoever. And like I said for the regular lay person who maybe doesnt have the capacity to look at the greek even more undertsand it the scriptures become convuluted. Thats just not my opinion thats literally an issue you run into by saying well it might mean such and such but then how about all those scholars who translated the greek. I hope you see the bigger picture.
this is why we must use scripture to determine the meaning. If you choose to interpret the "world" as every person who ever lived, why did God choose Israel and not the other nations? Why does Jesus, in John 17 say He not praying for the "world" but for those would believe in Him (John 17:9). The interpretation of the word I based on how the same word is used elsewhere in scripture. @@jlj547
@@thechorusinthechaos Your not even addressing what I am saying your just reading your systematic into the text. Address what I have brought forth if you really are honest you would not dodge my objections. And false your a false dichotomy by implying that by God choosing Israel he neglected the rest of the world. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, dont say now that I believe in universalism be honest please.
@@thechorusinthechaos And also I dont know how you dont see the issue with stating that by "understanding the scripture" if we get to your conclusion, that world doesnt mean world that makes no sense. If the word world doesnt mean world in your definition how can you can come to that conclusion by "understanding the text". That defies logic. If we as believers cannot take the plain reading of for God so loved the World as what its exactly implying, we then are just a bunch of confused people.
"The World" read plainly is the civilizations of man. You are doing gymnastics because the apostles don't agree. You even found a contradiction between Jesus and John in his own book. Have a back bone and realized the Bible is only useful when paired with the guidance of a relationship with The Holy Spirit. Even you can see that it can be twisted to mean anything without his guidance. Why can't we just admit we need Him and yes because it's personal revelation it becomes difficult to be "right".
John 18:20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing. Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. Wis 18:24 For in the long garment was the whole world, and in the four rows of the stones was the glory of the fathers graven, and thy Majesty upon the diadem of his head. 2 Esdras 6:54-59 And after these, Adam also, whom thou madest lord of all thy creatures: of him come we all, and the people also whom thou hast chosen. (55) All this have I spoken before thee, O Lord, because thou madest the world for our sakes (56) As for the other people, which also come of Adam, thou hast said that they are nothing, but be like unto spittle: and hast likened the abundance of them unto a drop that falleth from a vessel. (57) And now, O Lord, behold, these heathen, which have ever been reputed as nothing, have begun to be lords over us, and to devour us. (58) But we thy people, whom thou hast called thy firstborn, thy only begotten, and thy fervent lover, are given into their hands. (59) If the world now be made for our sakes, why do we not possess an inheritance with the world? how long shall this endure? John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Deuteronomy 32:26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men: Deuteronomy 28:48-49 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. (49) The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand; Deuteronomy 28:64-65 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone. (65) And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind: Deuteronomy 28:68 And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.(BUY IS THAT NO MAN WILL REDEEM ISRAEL BUT CHRIST ISAIAH 11:11, LUKE 1:71! Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. Jeremiah told Israel if they fight against Babylon, that they will lose their lives, but if the didn't fight back that they will be Slaves in Babylon.
if I make a dinner for my all ten friends and invite them but only one shows up and eats does it mean my dinner was limited? of course not.. God made salvation sufficient for all mankind. but hem must at least humble himself and accept the gift
The world has more than just people. The lion will lay with the lamb and eat grass like the ox. The child shall play on the asps hole, and the Cockatrice's den.
@thechorusinthechaos7186 what's that have to do with world? Trees and rivers are included. Revelation 22:1-2 KJV [1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. [2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. Revelation 21:1 KJV [1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. [5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. [24] And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. Yet God uses his animals for his glory. Numbers 22:30-31 KJV [30] And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. [31] Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face. Isaiah 11:6-12 KJV [6] The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. [7] And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. [8] And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. [9] They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. [10] And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. [11] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. [12] And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. [16] And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt. Genesis 1:26 KJV [26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. [28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. [29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. [30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. What are you going to do about all these scriptures? WORLD, n. [This seems to be a compound word, and probably is named from roundness, the vault; but this is not certain.] 1. The universe; the whole system of created globes or vast bodies of matter. 2. The earth; the terraqueous globe; sometimes called the lower world. 3. The heavens; as when we speak of the heavenly world, or upper world. 4. System of beings; or the orbs which occupy space, and all the beings which inhabit them. Hebrews 11. God--hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things; by whom also he made the worlds. Hebrews 1. There may be other worlds, where the inhabitants have never violated their allegiance to their Almighty sovereign. 5. Present state of existence; as while we are in the world. Behold, these are the ungodly who prosper in the world. Psalm 73. 6. A secular life. By the world we sometimes understand the things of this world, its pleasures and interests. A great part of mankind are more anxious to enjoy the world to than secure divine favor. 7. Public life, or society; as banished from the world. 8. Business or trouble of life. From this world-wearied flesh. 9. A great multitude or quantity; as a world of business; a world of charms. 10. Mankind; people in general; in an indefinite sense. Let the world see your fortitude. Whose disposition, all the world well knows-- 11. Course of life. He begins the world with little property, but with many friends. 12. Universal empire. This through the east just vengeance hurld, and lost poor Antony the world. 13. The customs and manners of men; the practice of life. A knowledge of the world is necessary for a man of business; it is essential to politeness. 14. All the world contains. Had I a thousand worlds, I would give them all for one year more to devote to God. 15. The principal nations or countries of the earth. Alexander conquered the world. 16. The Roman empire. 17. A large tract of country; a wide compass of things. I must descry new worlds. 18. The inhabitants of the earth; the whole human race. John 3. 19. The carnal state or corruption of the earth; as the present evil world; the course of this world. Galatians 1. Ephesians 2. 20. The ungodly part of the world. I pray not for the world, but for them that thou hast given men. John 17. 21. Time; as in the phrase, world without end. 22. A collection of wonders. [Not in use.] In the world, in possibility. [All the precaution in the world would not save him.] For all the world, 1. Exactly. [Little used.] 2. For any consideration.
@thechorusinthechaos7186 Matthew 8:32 KJV [32] And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters. How can demons possess pigs? How can Jesus comeback riding on a horse? Revelation 19:11 KJV [11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. [14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
I've been saying this for years, and not enough Calvinists make this argument. "The world" refers to all types of people - Jews and the gentiles. He is opening the minds of this Jewish crowd to his intention from long ago. Consider Abraham. The LORD promised that in Abraham all the nations of the earth would be blessed (Gen 12). Then also consider this recurring prophetic theme of the nations serving and worshipping the LORD in the Psalms (2, 72, 82, 86, et al). And then you already pointed to the Revelation passage that speaks of God calling people from every tongue, tribe, and nation. In essence, Jesus is saying that He doesn't only love the Jewish people, but he loves people all over the world. And all who believe will be saved. Thank you for this important and scripturally faithful rebuttal.
And you are wrong. The world means all people jew and gentile whosoever every one. It means what it says and in many other passages. Imagine that ? Jesus really loves you and offers salvation to you whoever you are by grace through faith without exception jew or gentile. Repent confess believe and fellowship and grow in the faith. God bless.🙏❤️
Wow the last statement is gas lighting. 1. Just because Jesus paid for all our sin doesn't mean he has to save all. 2. Your forgetting about the condition namely believing. But under Calvinism you have the same problem. If all means all and when God draws you must be saved doesn't that lead to universal salvation. JN 12:32
Where I would disagree is here: The general line of thinking is that Christ died for all sins of all men. I would reply, "Why is anyone in hell then?" The response (as you have pointed out) is disbelief. Is not disbelief a sin? How can Christ die for sins and people still be held accountable? If someone is in hell for disbelief and Christ died for their sins, how can God judge them? Is anyone in hell for whom Christ died for their sins? Was the blood of Christ not effective enough? Was it lacking?
@@thechorusinthechaoslet's look at the bible without changing definitions of words to suit a theology. 1 John 2:2 States He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. Yes Jesus died for this sins of the world. And yes unbelief is sin. That is why once we believe the atonement is applied. God loved us so much that He sent His so. To die for the whole world. He paid the price. We need to believe for it to be applied. Jn 3:18 Rom 10:9-10 This is salvation 101 for both Calvinism and traditionalism. However The concept of God must change ones heart first is not in the bible. We are called to Believe. How through the gospel. Rom 1:16 it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile. This verse is super clear. To EVERYONE who believes. And to whom. Jews first then Gentiles (the rest of the world) Need another. Eph 1:13 13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth-the gospel of your salvation-you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, So the only condition that is set out by God not man is faith. Every time the bible says to believe it assumes that one can do it. Otherwise it would mean God is being deceptive. Saying world but not meaning it. Telling us to Repent and believe but then not allowing us to. You need to read that into the text. The bible says. God loved the world. And whoever believes will be saved. Who am I to argue with how God saves and whom. God has decided to save all who believe. Unlike Calvinism where God needs to make you able believe first. Where as the rest of believe we can believe but we decide not to. This is the way God has decided to save. Who are you oh man to question God. Just ask your self this question Could an all powerful sovereign God decide to let us choose Jesus?
@@thechorusinthechaosokay I want to address it another way. If i read your response right. Your argument if God did die for the whole world it would be a waste as God could of saved all but didn't. I hope i got that right. Well there are 2 approaches that I see but they are both philosophical with no real bases in scripture. 1. God knew what choice we will make and only paid for those sins. 2. Or God decreed all that come to pass and chose some to be saved. But there is another option. What if God wants us to choose Him. Not because He can not effectively save but because He cooses to let decide. Why do i conclude this. 1. God desires all to be saved right? If God decrees all things including who will be saved then the passage that states 1 Tim 2 3-4 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth' So unless Timothy was lying. Then we see Gods heart. We also see God is drawing all men. Jn 12:32 32 And I, when I am lifted up[a] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” So here we have 2 clear verses that describe the heart of God. If determinism is true then logically God saves all. However if we take all the places where the requirement is to believe only with no apprent text to say God makes us do this. We can say God did die for all but God has decided to save all who believe. He doesn't save just because we believe but because that is what He determined to do. So no it doesn't follow that because God died for all therefore God must save all or it ineffective or ineffectual. You habe to read your theology to the rext to conclude that.
In your new intro I thought that was maybe a picture of Jesus teaching the crowds but then I thought "you guys wouldn't do that (at least 2 of you wouldn't)". Then I thought maybe it's Paul or some other biblical character. Then I wondered, am I guilty of a 2cv in your eyes if I see a picture of someone I think is supposed to be portraying Jesus? :D
The demons beleive in Jesus , Mth 8;28-34, luke 8;26-37 And so does the Devil , Mth 4;1-11 , I think John is works + faith salvation and Apostle Paul is by faith alone salvation ,. Grace of God revealed . yet Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as rightousness its why I believe we have to rightly divide the word 2 Tim 2;15 kjv
All unregenerate Lovers of Self love John 3:16. Go to any rainbow parade...they'll tell you..."I know God loves me....I love me too." Only Gods elect will be delivered from the delusion of man having an autonmous free will from their first birth. Gods grace is not merited by an unregenerates faith.
@Tigerex966 Truth is always a lie to those who don't possess it. Those "whosoever" that God loves is found just a few verses b4 John 3:16. Here 👇. John 3:5-8 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, 👉Except👈 a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, 👉Ye must be born again.👈 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, 👉but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:👈👉👉 so is every one that is born of the Spirit.👈👈
@@ManassehJones your first sentence is correct and is talking about you. John 3.16 means the world that's all sinners you and I included. We all are drawn by the holy spirit and we all have the ability to believe and have salvation by grace through faith not of ourselves or predestination of individuals to be saved. this way no one can boast. the entire bible old and new testament proves this to be true. We are elected and predestined for sanctification justification and eventual glorification after we believe not before. As eph 1.1 points out. This was decided by God before he created us. He did not decide who would be damned and saved. He decided to allow mankind to believe or reject him without him forcing their will. That way this judgement is just for all. No one can claim injustice or I am unable to believe which they can say under calvinism.. And the faith we express does not save us jesus does and he has decided to save those who have faith in him by his grace. We cannot say we saved ourselves or predestination or election or our faith saved us Jesus alone does. Jesus's salvation does not Come second place too any of them. He gets all the credit not predestination or john calvin or election. Our salvation is by Jesus not predestination and his atonement offer is not limited by john calvin or you or me or our theology. He is God... And he is not a respecter of persons which predestination salvation would make him. That is just gnosticism and divine determinism nonsense picked up and pushed by the murderous john calvin and others. The real reformers did not Come out of Europe or the catholic church. They were jesus and the apostles. We are born again after we believe not before and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. No man cometh to the father but by jesus not predestination or election. He is the way the truth and the life not election not predestination. Election and predestination calvinist style does boast it is they that bring you to the father. ...but they lie. Jesus does. Dont make the salvation from jesus Christ secondary or dependent on any of those election predestination john calvin determinism Gnosticism, because it is not. That is close to blasphemously pretending the blood of jesus cannot save certain people because of them being predestined to hell before they are born. And here's the thing you cannot know who those people are ? that how ludicrous that belief is. Everyone you and I and our enemies friends family members have the ability to be saved by the blood of jesus. That is the good news the gospel...why do you attempt to limit Gods salvation power to fit a manmade doctrine that came 1500 years later by a murderer and torturer of christians
It does, as do many other passages that say God loves the world, yes even sinners, and the so called unelected.
And it proves the atonement of Jesus from Jesus is not limited, and that it is available to all people of the world, by grace through faith, when tney believe without exception.
In short sin damns us all, not predestination, and Jesus saves us, not predestination, d6albation is available and saves all who believe by grace through faith.
Even a stranger or family member or your child.
Jesus is not an afterthought or second fiddle to predestination at all.
With calvinism there is no need for satan or jesus, because everything was settled in a script and written before creation, and that cannot be change, and we are forcibly playing it out.
Of course that is ludicrous.
You can never come to calvinism with the plain reading of the bible, and the holy ghost, and common sense, and logic.
It is a constructed systematic doctrine of men, by men, that attempts to limit the power of God and his image in earth, that being mankind, to its weak simplistic idea of them both, and its deterministic gnostic background.
Puppets and puppeteer.
By many well meaning but decieved people, who preach to the world that jesus more than likely did not die for you, and you cannot believe, simply from hearing the word, and the drawing of the holy spirit, and other means the bible lists as testimony of how to have faith and repent, instead they invent a mysterious event prior to belief that makes you born again before you believe?, contradicting the biblical order of salvation, because they believe predestination saves, not jesus, exceot in a secondary and limited, not primary unlimited manner.
They limit the power of the cross to their imagined power of salvation by predestination, and then only to an elite respected persons of God group, with no way to know who they are, until the judgement.
Meaning they startbto look at ones works as proof of salvation.
and they actually say this, not all but many starting with the murderous john calvin himself, before you are born still in the womb as a baby, God dooms you to hell, and he makes mankind kill and rape, and abort, men can do nothing he does not determine and bring to pass, without exception, including evil, and thats a lie from satan himself.
And you are wrong.
The world means all people jew and gentile whosoever every one.
It means what it says and many also in other passages.
Imagine that ?
Jesus really loves you and offers salvation to you whoever you are by grace through faith without exception jew or gentile.
Repent confess believe and fellowship and grow in the faith.
You are not doomed from the womb.
salvation is offered to everyone, I agree. But show me in scripture where it says man has the ability to choose without God drawing Him first.
@@thechorusinthechaos ok. So what you are saying is that God is a sadist Creator who offers salvation to people who are not able to accept, right? This is not the God I see in the Scriptures. Calvinism is a philosophical framework and when a calvinist reads the Bible, will always try to find a way to reconcile the text with that framework.
No man is excluded from calling upon God, the gate of salvation is set open unto all men: neither is there any other thing which keepeth us back from entering in, save only our own unbelief.
John Calvin
The mere fact one has a need to explain arguably the most simplest important verse in the New Testament. Speaks volumes on the "PHILOSOPHY" of Calvinism.
that's a silly stance; the interpretation I have given is the natural reading of the text in its original context. It's moderns who have twisted it to mean something else. it was written by and directly for a first century audience.
@@thechorusinthechaos The reason I know your position is absolutely foolish is simple; scripture interprets scripture. In other words a myriad of other verses buttresses John 3:16.
The epistle of Peter and Timothy bare witness off the top of my head.
Probably a moot point you would just exegete er... eisegete the meaning out of those as well I would guess.
@@Manofwar7 Name the verses you speak of and we can dialogue over them.
@@thechorusinthechaos 1 Tim 2:4-6. 2 Peter 3:9. I really don't mean to sound like a jerk but there is nothing to dialogue over.
RE: your take in John 3:16 I have heard it before. Sometimes people try and be too smart by a half the saying goes.
1. Does God really love the world?
2. Did God give his only begotten Son?
3. Is it true that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. Most plain people will get 3 out of 3.
Men like Wycliff and Tyndale gave their lives to translate the Word of God (if memory serves). Then the supposed erudite says it was essential in vain (IMO) unless one really knows the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic. Rubbish!
I can think of no major doctrine (soteriology, eschatology, pnuematology etc) turning on a better understanding of the English text of holy scripture.
Have a blessed day brother. 2 Corinthians 11:3 NKJV - But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the "simplicity" that is in Christ.
Sir, Very good exegesis on John 3:16. I am always interested in peoples interpretation of this verse in relation to the teachings of John Calvin. The scriptures are clear that God quickens man to come to him. Blessings in Christ.
Thank you and Amen!
Amen, EXCELLENT job! Indeed context is key yet so many people are ignorant and posted their ignorant comments below. World means the elect from all the world (Revelation 5:9). We see in Psalm 5:5 and Psalm 11:5 that God hates the workers of iniquity and the wicked. He does not just hate their sins. He hates them just like David CLEARLY says. God loves only the elect.
That’s Hyper Calvinism. “Hate”, in the biblical context, means love less. God loves everyone, just not equally. We read that God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, which means that He loves the non-elect in some sense.
@@BarryvanderMerwe No it does NOT mean love less. Hate means hate. Do not read things into the verses that are not there. How ridiculous you are.
@@alihoussney7870Reformed Calvinism is absurd ridiculous, and you ate not elected to salvation Ali! Choose better if you’re willing.
@@truthseeker5698your ignorance is what's truly truly ridiculous.
@@alihoussney7870 Jesus The Messiah or the christ of Calvinism. Choose wisely Ali.
You’ve been witnessed to.
At 7:51 you seem pretty pleased with yourself coming to that Cavanist or Universalist. Sorry to burst your bubble but the "God won't force you to live with him" or "you can refuse the free gift of salvation " arguments of Armenians kinda blows that out of the water. Sorry.
when Jesus was raised up , He drew ALL men ...not that all men come...don't need the calvinist explanations of all and world ..or any explanations of what God's word says
No He did not draw all men. Jesus made the distinction of those who were drawn and those who were not. The apostle John is very clear that only those people that The Father has drawn can come to Jesus. This means that some are not drawn and cannot come to Jesus. Later John says that every man THAT HEARS AND HAS LEARNED of The Father will come to Jesus. This again means that some will not hear and will not learn thus cannot come to Jesus.
Many are called. Few are chosen. Many means just that. Many. It doesn’t mean all.
The issue with saying "whoever" doesnt mean exactly that is to question literally all translations of the modern Bibles, which then in turn makes all translations questionable and convuluted to the regular lay person which then inturn makes those who are knowledge the source of truth and not the Bible anymore. To which I ask is The Holy Spirit unpurposely trying to confuse people? And if only those who are "knowledgable" can interpret scriptures correctly aren't we back again to the very thing the reformation was supposed to fight against?
the literal Greek rendering of that word is akin to "all the believing ones" - its a statement of fact that Jesus is making - all who believe will be saved.
@@thechorusinthechaos Thats your opinion though, And if so why would the translators instead use that rendering. I hope you can understand what your implying by saying "whoever" doesnt mean whoever. And like I said for the regular lay person who maybe doesnt have the capacity to look at the greek even more undertsand it the scriptures become convuluted. Thats just not my opinion thats literally an issue you run into by saying well it might mean such and such but then how about all those scholars who translated the greek. I hope you see the bigger picture.
this is why we must use scripture to determine the meaning. If you choose to interpret the "world" as every person who ever lived, why did God choose Israel and not the other nations? Why does Jesus, in John 17 say He not praying for the "world" but for those would believe in Him (John 17:9). The interpretation of the word I based on how the same word is used elsewhere in scripture. @@jlj547
@@thechorusinthechaos Your not even addressing what I am saying your just reading your systematic into the text. Address what I have brought forth if you really are honest you would not dodge my objections. And false your a false dichotomy by implying that by God choosing Israel he neglected the rest of the world. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world, dont say now that I believe in universalism be honest please.
@@thechorusinthechaos And also I dont know how you dont see the issue with stating that by "understanding the scripture" if we get to your conclusion, that world doesnt mean world that makes no sense. If the word world doesnt mean world in your definition how can you can come to that conclusion by "understanding the text". That defies logic. If we as believers cannot take the plain reading of for God so loved the World as what its exactly implying, we then are just a bunch of confused people.
"The World" read plainly is the civilizations of man. You are doing gymnastics because the apostles don't agree.
You even found a contradiction between Jesus and John in his own book.
Have a back bone and realized the Bible is only useful when paired with the guidance of a relationship with The Holy Spirit. Even you can see that it can be twisted to mean anything without his guidance. Why can't we just admit we need Him and yes because it's personal revelation it becomes difficult to be "right".
If everyones sins is paid for how could God judge them
Vs 18 covers that.
Because they don't believe they stand condemned.
by your logic, disbelief is not a sin.
John 18:20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.
Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Wis 18:24 For in the long garment was the whole world, and in the four rows of the stones was the glory of the fathers graven, and thy Majesty upon the diadem of his head.
2 Esdras 6:54-59 And after these, Adam also, whom thou madest lord of all thy creatures: of him come we all, and the people also whom thou hast chosen. (55) All this have I spoken before thee, O Lord, because thou madest the world for our sakes (56) As for the other people, which also come of Adam, thou hast said that they are nothing, but be like unto spittle: and hast likened the abundance of them unto a drop that falleth from a vessel. (57) And now, O Lord, behold, these heathen, which have ever been reputed as nothing, have begun to be lords over us, and to devour us. (58) But we thy people, whom thou hast called thy firstborn, thy only begotten, and thy fervent lover, are given into their hands. (59) If the world now be made for our sakes, why do we not possess an inheritance with the world? how long shall this endure?
John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Deuteronomy 32:26 I said, I would scatter them into corners, I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men:
Deuteronomy 28:48-49 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee. (49) The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Deuteronomy 28:64-65 And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone. (65) And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the LORD shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
Deuteronomy 28:68 And the LORD shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships, by the way whereof I spake unto thee, Thou shalt see it no more again: and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.(BUY IS THAT NO MAN WILL REDEEM ISRAEL BUT CHRIST ISAIAH 11:11, LUKE 1:71!
Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Jeremiah told Israel if they fight against Babylon, that they will lose their lives, but if the didn't fight back that they will be Slaves in Babylon.
if I make a dinner for my all ten friends and invite them but only one shows up and eats does it mean my dinner was limited? of course not.. God made salvation sufficient for all mankind. but hem must at least humble himself and accept the gift
The world has more than just people. The lion will lay with the lamb and eat grass like the ox. The child shall play on the asps hole, and the Cockatrice's den.
But only humans are made in God's image and have a soul.
@thechorusinthechaos7186 what's that have to do with world? Trees and rivers are included.
Revelation 22:1-2 KJV
[1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. [2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Revelation 21:1 KJV
[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
[24] And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Yet God uses his animals for his glory.
Numbers 22:30-31 KJV
[30] And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. [31] Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.
Isaiah 11:6-12 KJV
[6] The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. [7] And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. [8] And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. [9] They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. [10] And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. [11] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. [12] And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
[16] And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.
Genesis 1:26 KJV
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. [29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. [30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
What are you going to do about all these scriptures?
WORLD, n. [This seems to be a compound word, and probably is named from roundness, the vault; but this is not certain.]
1. The universe; the whole system of created globes or vast bodies of matter.
2. The earth; the terraqueous globe; sometimes called the lower world.
3. The heavens; as when we speak of the heavenly world, or upper world.
4. System of beings; or the orbs which occupy space, and all the beings which inhabit them. Hebrews 11.
God--hath in these last days spoken to us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things; by whom also he made the worlds. Hebrews 1.
There may be other worlds, where the inhabitants have never violated their allegiance to their Almighty sovereign.
5. Present state of existence; as while we are in the world.
Behold, these are the ungodly who prosper in the world. Psalm 73.
6. A secular life. By the world we sometimes understand the things of this world, its pleasures and interests. A great part of mankind are more anxious to enjoy the world to than secure divine favor.
7. Public life, or society; as banished from the world.
8. Business or trouble of life.
From this world-wearied flesh.
9. A great multitude or quantity; as a world of business; a world of charms.
10. Mankind; people in general; in an indefinite sense. Let the world see your fortitude.
Whose disposition, all the world well knows--
11. Course of life. He begins the world with little property, but with many friends.
12. Universal empire.
This through the east just vengeance hurld, and lost poor Antony the world.
13. The customs and manners of men; the practice of life. A knowledge of the world is necessary for a man of business; it is essential to politeness.
14. All the world contains.
Had I a thousand worlds, I would give them all for one year more to devote to God.
15. The principal nations or countries of the earth. Alexander conquered the world.
16. The Roman empire.
17. A large tract of country; a wide compass of things.
I must descry new worlds.
18. The inhabitants of the earth; the whole human race. John 3.
19. The carnal state or corruption of the earth; as the present evil world; the course of this world. Galatians 1. Ephesians 2.
20. The ungodly part of the world.
I pray not for the world, but for them that thou hast given men. John 17.
21. Time; as in the phrase, world without end.
22. A collection of wonders. [Not in use.]
In the world, in possibility. [All the precaution in the world would not save him.]
For all the world,
1. Exactly. [Little used.]
2. For any consideration.
@thechorusinthechaos7186 Matthew 8:32 KJV
[32] And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
How can demons possess pigs?
How can Jesus comeback riding on a horse?
Revelation 19:11 KJV
[11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
I've been saying this for years, and not enough Calvinists make this argument. "The world" refers to all types of people - Jews and the gentiles. He is opening the minds of this Jewish crowd to his intention from long ago. Consider Abraham. The LORD promised that in Abraham all the nations of the earth would be blessed (Gen 12). Then also consider this recurring prophetic theme of the nations serving and worshipping the LORD in the Psalms (2, 72, 82, 86, et al). And then you already pointed to the Revelation passage that speaks of God calling people from every tongue, tribe, and nation.
In essence, Jesus is saying that He doesn't only love the Jewish people, but he loves people all over the world. And all who believe will be saved.
Thank you for this important and scripturally faithful rebuttal.
And you are wrong.
The world means all people jew and gentile whosoever every one.
It means what it says and in many other passages.
Imagine that ?
Jesus really loves you and offers salvation to you whoever you are by grace through faith without exception jew or gentile.
Repent confess believe and fellowship and grow in the faith.
God bless.🙏❤️
Wow the last statement is gas lighting.
1. Just because Jesus paid for all our sin doesn't mean he has to save all.
2. Your forgetting about the condition namely believing.
But under Calvinism you have the same problem.
If all means all and when God draws you must be saved doesn't that lead to universal salvation. JN 12:32
Where I would disagree is here: The general line of thinking is that Christ died for all sins of all men. I would reply, "Why is anyone in hell then?" The response (as you have pointed out) is disbelief. Is not disbelief a sin? How can Christ die for sins and people still be held accountable? If someone is in hell for disbelief and Christ died for their sins, how can God judge them?
Is anyone in hell for whom Christ died for their sins? Was the blood of Christ not effective enough? Was it lacking?
@@thechorusinthechaoslet's look at the bible without changing definitions of words to suit a theology.
1 John 2:2
States
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Yes Jesus died for this sins of the world.
And yes unbelief is sin.
That is why once we believe the atonement is applied.
God loved us so much that He sent His so. To die for the whole world. He paid the price.
We need to believe for it to be applied. Jn 3:18
Rom 10:9-10
This is salvation 101 for both Calvinism and traditionalism.
However The concept of God must change ones heart first is not in the bible.
We are called to Believe.
How through the gospel.
Rom 1:16
it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.
This verse is super clear.
To EVERYONE who believes.
And to whom.
Jews first then Gentiles (the rest of the world)
Need another.
Eph 1:13
13And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth-the gospel of your salvation-you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,
So the only condition that is set out by God not man is faith.
Every time the bible says to believe it assumes that one can do it.
Otherwise it would mean God is being deceptive.
Saying world but not meaning it.
Telling us to Repent and believe but then not allowing us to.
You need to read that into the text.
The bible says.
God loved the world.
And whoever believes will be saved.
Who am I to argue with how God saves and whom.
God has decided to save all who believe.
Unlike Calvinism where God needs to make you able believe first.
Where as the rest of believe we can believe but we decide not to.
This is the way God has decided to save.
Who are you oh man to question God.
Just ask your self this question
Could an all powerful sovereign God decide to let us choose Jesus?
Check Rom 1:15. Should of started there.
@@thechorusinthechaosokay I want to address it another way.
If i read your response right.
Your argument if God did die for the whole world it would be a waste as God could of saved all but didn't.
I hope i got that right.
Well there are 2 approaches that I see but they are both philosophical with no real bases in scripture.
1. God knew what choice we will make and only paid for those sins.
2. Or God decreed all that come to pass and chose some to be saved.
But there is another option.
What if God wants us to choose Him. Not because He can not effectively save but because He cooses to let decide.
Why do i conclude this.
1. God desires all to be saved right?
If God decrees all things including who will be saved then the passage that states
1 Tim 2 3-4
This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth'
So unless Timothy was lying.
Then we see Gods heart.
We also see God is drawing all men.
Jn 12:32
32 And I, when I am lifted up[a] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
So here we have 2 clear verses that describe the heart of God.
If determinism is true then logically God saves all.
However if we take all the places where the requirement is to believe only with no apprent text to say God makes us do this.
We can say God did die for all but God has decided to save all who believe.
He doesn't save just because we believe but because that is what He determined to do.
So no it doesn't follow that because God died for all therefore God must save all or it ineffective or ineffectual.
You habe to read your theology to the rext to conclude that.
In your new intro I thought that was maybe a picture of Jesus teaching the crowds but then I thought "you guys wouldn't do that (at least 2 of you wouldn't)". Then I thought maybe it's Paul or some other biblical character. Then I wondered, am I guilty of a 2cv in your eyes if I see a picture of someone I think is supposed to be portraying Jesus? :D
That is supposed to be Paul preaching :)
The demons beleive in Jesus , Mth 8;28-34, luke 8;26-37 And so does the Devil , Mth 4;1-11 , I think John is works + faith salvation and Apostle Paul is by faith alone salvation ,. Grace of God revealed . yet Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as rightousness its why I believe we have to rightly divide the word 2 Tim 2;15 kjv
All unregenerate Lovers of Self love John 3:16. Go to any rainbow parade...they'll tell you..."I know God loves me....I love me too."
Only Gods elect will be delivered from the delusion of man having an autonmous free will from their first birth. Gods grace is not merited by an unregenerates faith.
This is a lie
@Tigerex966 Truth is always a lie to those who don't possess it. Those "whosoever" that God loves is found just a few verses b4 John 3:16. Here 👇.
John 3:5-8 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, 👉Except👈 a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, 👉Ye must be born again.👈
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, 👉but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth:👈👉👉 so is every one that is born of the Spirit.👈👈
@@ManassehJones your first sentence is correct and is talking about you.
John 3.16 means the world that's all sinners you and I included.
We all are drawn by the holy spirit and we all have the ability to believe and have salvation by grace through faith not of ourselves or predestination of individuals to be saved.
this way no one can boast.
the entire bible old and new testament proves this to be true.
We are elected and predestined for sanctification justification and eventual glorification after we believe not before.
As eph 1.1 points out.
This was decided by God before he created us.
He did not decide who would be damned and saved.
He decided to allow mankind to believe or reject him without him forcing their will.
That way this judgement is just for all.
No one can claim injustice or I am unable to believe which they can say under calvinism..
And the faith we express does not save us jesus does and he has decided to save those who have faith in him by his grace.
We cannot say we saved ourselves or predestination or election or our faith saved us Jesus alone does.
Jesus's salvation does not Come second place too any of them.
He gets all the credit not predestination or john calvin or election.
Our salvation is by Jesus not predestination and his atonement offer is not limited by john calvin or you or me or our theology.
He is God...
And he is not a respecter of persons which predestination salvation would make him.
That is just gnosticism and divine determinism nonsense picked up and pushed by the murderous john calvin and others.
The real reformers did not Come out of Europe or the catholic church.
They were jesus and the apostles.
We are born again after we believe not before and faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
No man cometh to the father but by jesus not predestination or election.
He is the way the truth and the life not election not predestination.
Election and predestination calvinist style does boast it is they that bring you to the father. ...but they lie.
Jesus does.
Dont make the salvation from jesus Christ secondary or dependent on any of those election predestination john calvin determinism Gnosticism, because it is not.
That is close to blasphemously pretending the blood of jesus cannot save certain people because of them being predestined to hell before they are born.
And here's the thing you cannot know who those people are ?
that how ludicrous that belief is.
Everyone you and I and our enemies friends family members have the ability to be saved by the blood of jesus.
That is the good news the gospel...why do you attempt to limit Gods salvation power to fit a manmade doctrine that came 1500 years later by a murderer and torturer of christians