Honda Transmission FAIL at 100k miles??
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ม.ค. 2023
- I have a feeling something is really BROKEN on this 2016 Honda Pilot at only 104k miles...
Customer complaint is that it's shifting really HARD out of 1st gear on the first key cycle, and then seems to drive "OK".
Let's verify the customer complaint and follow the factory service procedure to diagnose this transmission issue. Don't get your hopes up...some MAJOR parts may be required xD
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Enjoy!
Ivan - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Hey guys! I am the one helping the owner of this Pilot and a long time subscriber of Ivan and Eric O.
Below is the problem history of this car:
- @39K miles, we replaced all 6 injectors and fuel rails. The injector #4 is leaking. At the time, Honda said it is out of warranty and asking $1900 to fix. Honda had an updated part# for the injector kit. Paid about $600++ for OEM parts. They recently published a TSB on this and the owner asked for reimbursement from American Honda but was denied.
- @47K miles, we replaced the push start switch. It would consistently take about 10-15 tries before it will start or stop. Paid about $60 for OEM parts. I believe Honda has a TSB for this but we did not bother reimbursing anymore.
- @104K miles, this transmission issue happened. Paid $600++ for the reman valve body and new is backordered for almost a year now.
As far as A/T maintenance:
- ATF is replaced every 30K miles with Honda DW-1 fluid. They buy them by the case.
- In-line transmission filter was replaced at 60K miles.
- this car has not been used for towing.
- all maintrnance done on this car is as recommended by Honda. (OCI, ATF, rear diff fluid, Brake Fluid, Timing belt, spark plugs, etc.)
If you guys search TH-cam or Google, this also happens to a lot of Honda/Acura models equipped with their 6 speed transmission. Even their newer 9 speed ZF transmissions have issues. Not sure about their 10 speed. I think Honda knows they have an issue and just not owing up to it.
As far as not doing a test drive, the owner complained of the shift shock right after the first gear and said it's perfectly fine after. Also, if you are familiar with NE Philly, the streets are 100 yard squares so it is a bit difficult to drive your car to shift past 4th as you would not have a street long enough without a light or a stop sign. You would have to drive for 20 mins to get to a road that you can get your car to shift past 4th gear. We just stop road testing after the first shift shock. Nevertheless, it was my fault that I did not drive this car on a highway. I just assumed that the owner knows about his car as he always drives along Roosevelt Ave. (Rt. 1). I also failed to look at the gear ratio PID which Ivan did here. I was with the owner during test drives and I was just looking at the CPCA, CPCB, CPCC, engine speed and the line pressure PIDs. I suggested to bring it to Ivan since the CPCA is responsible for the 1st-2nd shift and also 4th-5th shift. I was really hoping and praying for the owner that the issue is only somewhere in the valve body and not the transmission.
At the very least, from it being a beached whale, replacing the valve body with a reman enabled the owner to at least drive the car - albeit only a 4 speed.
Thanks so much for the detailed history of the Pilot, Ernie! So even with METICULOUS MAINTENANCE the transmission failed at 104k miles. So much for Honda reliability haha :)
Wow, what a lemon of a car... I hope my mom's passport is more reliable than that (it has the 9 speed, 28k miles, I'm going to change the trans fluid when spring is here).
If the owner lives in a dense city and doesn't drive much on the highway I'd honestly tell him to just keep driving it until he either gets the money for a trans, or it stops moving. Just tell him to go easy on the throttle since it's slipping the heck out of the torque converter when stuck in 3rd or 4th and generating heat when almoving at slow speeds.
That was my 1st thought, lavk of maintenance. This was not the case. . I'm shopping for a used honda ridgeline 2006 to 2010. I know about the transmission cooler issues, but know worried about th
Other tranny issues
As far as the transmission maintenances goes, reads like the owner did the right things. Combined with injectors so early, lemon descriptor seems appropriate.
It's not just cars, Ivan. Refrigerators, washing machines, and clothes dryers used to last for decades with few, generally inexpensive repairs needed, not anymore. Repairmen tell people to hang onto their older machines as long as possible. Who needs a washing machine with scores of electronic parts and computer chips in it? It is going to wash clothes, not land on Mars.
100%!!
I see you left gas stoves out. There's a chance that Biden will force everyone to electric stoves. Whoa be you if you have gas, need a stove and don't have a 3 prong heavy duty plug. BTW, Jill Biden cooks with gas. The elites are a different species.
Refrigerators are at the top of the list. I had a salesman in the business for a long time say the durability of the new models runs about ten years. He is very frustrated and shared the same as mentioned here.
The electric company will urge you to buy a new energy efficient model that will last ten years so what has the consumer gained? Maytag was the iron horse of washers with the strongest transmission but....
@@larrybe2900 Maytag and Whirlpool and Frigidaire were indestructible in the previous century. My parents still have all their original appliances from the 80s!
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics After 33 years I got to meet the Maytag Repairman recently. He replaced the rollers on the drum in my 1989 Dryer. He told me not to get rid of those appliances; you can't buy those anymore.
ETCG also talked about seeing more Honda broken stuff in the 201x decade than he ever saw in his earlier years as a mechanic.
To bad he doesn't seem that active last months.
Love his channel also
@@antonoudenhoven7573 I think he retired or something
I noticed quality control lacking too. I think it's been an issue for even longer than most people think. Back in the early 2000's, I worked for a dealership that said certain transmissions were "lubed for life" for certain models. Well, that's because they consider 100k the useable life of the transmission. They don't tell the buyer that though, go figure.
You hit the nail on the head with your observation about cars getting more bells and whistles but losing basic quality control. It's an issue that you can see a far back as the mid-2000 european vehicles, korean makes, and everything Chrysler. As you said, in the early to mid 2010s, it started to bleed over to the remaining American and Japanese cars. They all seemed to share the engineering used by european makers and everyone knows how unreliable used eurotrash vehicles are.
As a concerted intent, planned obsolescence began with light bulbs with the Phoebus Cartel in 1925. Other industries started picking up on the idea until things progressed to where they are now. Within the automotive world, Sears Die Hard batteries were the first products I can recall that advertised themselves as being, "maintenance free." Not long after zerk fittings started to disappear and u-joints and ball joints started to become "maintenance free." Then came lifetime warranties (for the original owner), then extended warranties, costing a considerable percentage of the original purchase price. Excessive features and user conveniences started their rise to prominence followed by vastly increased complexity and shifting from mechanical to electronic controls. Along the way, durability and reliability started changing places with disposability and we started hearing warnings about our landfills overflowing. Meanwhile, my 1948 Ford 8N tractor just keeps on running. It's a little older than I am and less than overly comfortable, but it will surely outlast me. Ivan's observation about quality control is spot on, but the root of the problem date back 100 years.
IIRC, I believe that the Delco Freedom battery came first, but I'm not willing to bet on it. Transmission reliability has actually increased, but when they do fail the cost is exponentially more.
But back in the day, decades ago, didn't cars need huge tuneups every 50 or 100k miles? But not on modern engines
@@zzoinks7-10k. Old wrench here
Further to my previous comment just want to add the following which may be helpful to the owner of this car. I bought a 2005 Honda Jazz (Fit) from new. Manual transmission, gearbox failed after 80,000 miles. Was just out of warranty. Dealer I bought it from was not interested and said I would have to pay for replacement gearbox. Not to be deterred I called Honda UK. They called me back within an hour and said, Mr Flynn, call your dealership again, they will install a new gearbox at no cost to yourself, they were very apologetic. Not sure if this Pilot owner could call Honda USA and plead his case, nothing ventured......
My dad has 130k on his 07 Honda Fit 5 speed. only unplanned maintenance so far was 4 ignition coils lol
Manual transmission failed
cheap fix
Ivan, I bought a dodge ($400.00) that stopped shifting into third gear (final gear) when we entered the winter months. Drove it to work throughout the winter and then in the Spring it started shifting into 3rd again. Loved that car. Took out two deer with it. Finally threw a rod one fine summer evening. Ah, the good old days! Thanks for Sharing!
Ivan I know it's painful to you when an expensive diagnosis has occurred. You strive to repair and make customers totally happy. It is sad car manufacturers have sunk to quantity over quality. Good thing, if any, your job is more secure than ever
Diagnostic and repair people do have job security now for sure. Problem is all this new junk is clogging up their schedules, and making it hard for everyone to keep their cars in good shape.
Every car I see on fb market place needs a new engine from 60k absolutely nuts,keep up the great content 👍
Ram pickup trucks have a very similar issue with the 68RFE transmission. The backing plate for the accumulator pistons will either bend or break completely. This causes a leak in the valve body, which then reduces the line pressure greatly for the clutch packs engaging. The clutches then slip to the point of failure due to the reduced line pressure, and even if you remedy the valve body issue, no amount of line pressure will help you because the clutches have been smoked. Usually the first sign of a problem is a slipping transmission and an input shaft output shaft speed correlation code. At that point irreversible damage has been done, and a rebuild or new transmission is needed.
I hope there is an external port on the case for the line pressure to be measured with a pressure gauge while you drive. Then compare the value with the expected range
I took a '65 Mustang to a local transmission shop. He said he could fix the problem for about $600, but it would only be a matter of time before another seal failed and the problem came back; he could do a full rebuild for $1100, and loved working on 60's transmissions because they're so simple and easy to work on. Ok, do it. When I went to pick it up, he was talking to a young couple about a much more modern car - probably early 2010's, maybe a Chevy, I don't remember - and telling them that he could fix the problem for $2200, but it would only be a matter of time before another component failed, might be a year, might be two weeks, and he could do a full rebuild for $4000. 😢
@CJRock I'm sure that's a HUGE part of the price difference. I sincerely wish our prices had been reversed - my Mustang is a toy, and if it needed a $4000 repair, I'd have sold it (with the written estimate from the transmission guy) and never looked back. The Chevy or whatever was their daily driver and I believe their only vehicle, and it wasn't in great shape, so I can only assume $4000 was pretty much catastrophic for them, but they had little choice. 😢
That’s the reason I drive a manual here in the UK, automatic transmissions costs thousands to repair when they need repairs.
I'm sure a lot of that is the number of gears. My '67 Chevy was 2-speed. My '89 was 3-speed with torque converter lockup. My '13 is a 6 speed. That's a lot more complexity, fiddly parts/seals/gaskets.
Ivan, some car history here. I helped my Dad work on my Moms 1960 Ford Station Wagon with a slant 6. Dad had a '61-ish Ford F150. Of course, I wasn't turning wrenches, but I was getting them out of the toolbox to help my Dad. But my point in saying this is that I can remember brand new off the show room floors that couldn't get 10K miles without some major issue. 20K miles for engine failures, trans problems, wheel bearings, differential issues. If there was a car that got 20K without some big issue, it was considered Cherry. A car owned by "Average Joe Family Man" with 100K was pretty mush ready for the scrap pile and time to get a new one. The car manufactures had planned adolescents built into cars. It was raging rampant, and the quality was cheap, cheap, cheap. It wasn't until the Japanese introduced "Foreign Cars" to the US market that the American manufacturers took note and started building much, much better cars to compete with the Japanese. Thats what set the US car market on fire. Today, cars have so many technological advancements and each one of those technologies needs at least one part that can fail. If a car has .1%-part failure rate, a car with a lot of parts will be more prone to failures than a simple car with less parts. Just a fact of physics.
You are so right about newer cars and trucks, too many electronic to mechanical that can fail after many heat cycles.
Hi Ivan, my 2000 Grand Cher 4 litres keeps looking better. Thanks again. Have a great 2023 Cheers 😊
I have owned 6 Honda Accords from 1980 to 2000 model years about half of them were automatics. Never had any transmission failures and over 170k miles on the 2000 but plenty of ATF changes were done. I would agree the newer models of all makes with more complex transmissions are more prone to problems.
Thats why I bought an extended warranty on our 2019 Jeep and plan to trade it when it runs out.
Complexity is the enemy of reliability
Enter VW and related brands .
Yes. My moms Ford escape has a fancy transmission that can send power to the front wheels, rear wheels, or all wheels. Then the trans went out at 110k miles
Thank Ivan .I am diagnosing the same code on Honda Accord 2006.
If you go on the Piloteers talk forum you will learn that the cylinder deactivation causes overheating of transmission and fluid causing torque converter shudder and all manner of premature wear. Many pilot owners add a device to keep cylinder deactivation from engaging. Frequent fluid changes or switching to synthetic transmission fluid are what a lot of Pilot owners are doing.
Former Honda tech here. Honda actually used a Chrysler transmission in the 16-17 Pilot. The huge failure point we experienced on those during my time was the transmission warmer failing, leaking coolant into the transmission. Early symptoms included a chirp from the either 2-3 or 3-4 upshift. We had to replace the entire transmission, warmer along with flushing the coolant system.
Very interesting!
I've had a few Pilots, but I thought most of the problems were with the 9 speed? I wouldn't touch a 16 or 17 Pilot I know they were hit or miss. I have a 2020 Passport with the 9 speed and so far has been good.
Juuuuunk
Great info, thanks bro!
Do Honda 2018 pilot have similar transmission issues? or is it safe to acquire one?
I have a 2004 Accord 6 Speed manual Coupe. Pretty rare care. The transmission on my car has 524,636 kms. And she is going strong still. With no signs of failing yet. But I also very regularly change the transmission fluid. About every 30,000-40,000km or so. So that could contribute to why it's lasting. Two years ago I rebuilt the engine, because my timing belt snapped and bents 5 valves. Shop told me it wasn't worth it. So I drove the car home and rebuilt it myself. Learning everything I could from TH-cam on the JSeries. Even with five bent valves the car still ran hahahaha. Albeit rough. But since the motor rebuild she runs like an absolute dream. No check engine lights since. Knew absolutely nothing about mechanics. But successfully redid the motor
Wow this was very insightful.... I wonder how vehicle products made 2020 and on will be in terms of reliability? Only time will tell. I have learned from your channel to always do research prior to purchase. Carcomplaints is a good source as well and this particular model year had a biggest spike of all Pilots!!
Have cracks been repaired in the valve bodies? Is a bore becoming distorted during this process?
Great video Ivan...keep them coming!
I have a 73 Pontiac 400 with a TH400 trans. It's in a 70 Monte Carlo. Trans was rebuilt in 1987 after 130k miles in original car. This trans has been thoroughly beat on for many years now as the engine well above stock form. No leaks and shifts as smoothly as when new. But, only 3 speeds without locking converter makes for lots of gas stops. Never have to worry about a MIL!
Sounds like you have the same problem as my '77 Chevy C20 3/4 ton 350. My alignment must be bad since it swerves toward a gas station every time I go by. Just a slight hyperbole. I am so glad not to have a catalytic converter on it.
I used to love Honda but in the last while they've had some major issues with transmissions and turbo engines. The transmission issues started about 20 years ago and they don't seem to have really nailed it, with a lot of hit and miss quality. I mean, yeah, they're better than most brands - looking at you VW and Hyundai, but the pressure to add gears without adding size or weight seems to have taken away reliability.
@Fahrvergnugen Honda has some issues with turbo engines and excessive oil use. They’ve had on and off transmission issues going all the way back to 2000 when they had a run of terrible five speed autos and while things are better now, they still have goofs with respect to these complex units.
Makes me want to keep my 2012 CRV and when/if there are engine/tranny issues, just have a shop put in a good rebuilt one.
Guaranteed diagnosis!! Too bad more mechanics don’t have that mantra.
I don't know or was it my imagination than Honda's stick shift gearboxes were fault free but the automatics were very problematic on the euro side. That's been out there for ages. Scotty was right about changing trans fluid more often. 100k replacement is a very painful experience, pocket wise. These newer cars are succumbing to destructive tendencies at a much lower mileage. Diagnosis was on target and the result was inevitable.
Honda has been known to make some of the worst automatic transmission for like 20 years.
David Long, the Car Wizard commented on this when discussing transmissions and gear boxes that required no maintenance for the life of the car; the most obvious question is how the car manufacturers define the "life of the car". The obvious conclusion is about 100,000 miles. So if you want your vehicle to last longer you will need to exceed the recommended maintenance (10,000 miles between oil changes is simply a recipe for early engine failure regardless of the stability of synthetic oils, especially when one considers the oil dilution inherit with GDI) and do fluid exchanges on sealed components that are literally designed to make maintenance difficult if not impossible; such as those that lack a transmission adipstick (with a filter that is not replaceable unless you remove the transmission and crack the case) and gear boxes that lack drain plugs. Another mechanic also explained that manufacturers are churning out newer models at a faster pace than is prudent due to EV mandates that will supposedly make ICE obsolete in 15 years, so whatever technology that has been planned they are being jammed into new car models before they are use tested before the ICE becomes obsolete.
I looked up some videos on rebuilding this transmission, and on the 2014 Honda 6 speed (which look identical to this) -- the pro transmission guy said that a new secondary solenoid block is less than $300, so I don't know why this guy was fooling around with referbished/ reman's.. There's a video on here called "What you need to know about the Honda 6 Speed Solenoid Assembly." -- who said the diagnostics of the solenoid block is not straight forward, so different codes can be triggered by several different reasons. Also when installing them, there are several little tubes that all have screens in them, and 2 o-rings -- which can leak, and the screens can clog -- so if his "buddy" who installed them didn't know what he was doing, he could have easily botched the job. Granted, it's hard to mess something up 3x in a row, (being that it's the 3rd solenoid block); there is also a 36 min 'webinar" about rebuilding this transmission, and he discusses the valve body a bit too (video is called "Honda 6 Speed Rebuild Webinar - 1/13/15" )... IDK, with that low miles, it's just hard for me to commit to believing that the internals are broken somehow. It really just seems like it's still a secondary solenoid block problem.. Cheers..
(then again, you said the first one was cracked, and with this guy driving this thing to you in limp mode in 4th gear and thinking "everything is running fine" --- there's no telling how long he drove it before with the cracked valve body, and maybe slipping clutches, and burning them up-- too many variables: I can see why you pulled the ejection cord on this one; I'm just thinking in terms of it being my own car, I would still be digging for the answers.. stubbornly . lol).
I've been a Honda/Acura tech since the late '80s. The V6 automatic transmissions have always been an issue. I advise people all the time, "don't buy a V6 automatic Honda or Acura". If you have one, sell it before it hits 100K. Even with regular servicing they are on borrowed time after 100K. If the vehicle is more than a few years old, the transmission replacement will cost more than the car is worth. From my experience, the "rebuilt" units never last as long as the original ones did.
I agree. I had a 2003 Acura TL and learned the hard way that their transmissions did not last. Acura paid out over $400 million more than they had to in order to satisfy customers with new transmissions just beyond the warranty period. The preceding 4-speed was just fine, something got pushed too hard when they added the 5th speed.
My mother's '04 accord V6 trans started slipping and banging gears around 100k on the dot. Petitioned honda for a new one ended up paying just the labor which was still a huge chunk. Sold it around 160k just to be safe. I can't imagine what most people have to deal with.
210k on my 08 tl shifts fine
What is the weak link with the extra power?
@@larrybe2900 Two things. The main 2nd gear is far too narrow and overheats at high power levels. And the shifts are too slow and smooth with the original transmission software. The clutches overheat if you floor it. They added an oil cooling pipe and changed the transmission software to help with those problems.
I would scope the shift solenoids responsible for 1-2 shift while driving and I'll be looking for clean pull to ground at the TCM. I've seen 150 millivolts at control pin to cause similar problems. The problem was the transistor in the computer.
I wouldn't rule out the transmission until I know that all the outputs give enough current to pull the solenoids properly and that there aren't any wonky ground issue.
My experience is that electronics sometimes fails in odd ways so it gives enough current to make a click but not actually pull valves properly.
We had the same problem with our Honda Pilot. Same year at 80k in Texas. The dealer replaced the trans after several complaining visits. No charge. Drove it a few months and traded it for a Toyota Tacoma.
I am a former Honda certified and ASE certified master technician who worked at my local Honda dealer. I left that place for various different internal reasons. But whenever I’m considering a Honda when car shopping I only look at Hondas with a manual transmission.
Honda has really been messing up on their automatic transmissions lately. Don’t even mention CVT transmissions, those things are a disposable joke.
If you still want a Honda, I recommend one with a true manual transmission.
Most Honda engines have been pretty reliable, but if you want a truly bullet proof drivetrain, I’d look for a V6 3.5 liter engine paired with a manual transmission. Those will run forever with regular maintenance.
Otherwise go with Toyota, but I would still avoid CVT.
What about the 2.4L NA engine?
@@JohnS-il1dr Best engine
@Fahrvergnugen As a former tech of 8+ shops it doesn’t seem like you stick around long enough to really get to know any of the makes. Any internal combustion engine will have some oil consumption due to the fact that no cylinder is truly 100% sealed. I only saw a hand full of the V6’s with EXCESSIVE oil consumption issues. All of those were either modified to output more power, or they were not maintained as they should have been, or both. Otherwise, no issues with the V6 engines.
As for CVT transmissions, just about all manufacturers CVT transmissions are for the most part horrendous. Including Hondas, and especially Nissan. If I ever had to, the only make I would buy with a CVT is a Subaru as they have been using CVT transmissions in their cars since the 80’s and for the most part have made them reliable now. If you spent any time at a Honda dealership as a tech then you would know that they have been having issues with their automatic transmissions and now CVTs for a while now. Slipping issues, overheating issues, pressure issues, many before even making it to 50 or 60k.
@@JohnS-il1dr those are really reliable. They do tend to leak oil out of the valve cover gasket and some other minor leaks that can be fixed fairly easily. Mechanically it is a sound engine
I had a 2006 Accord with the 3.5 Liter, had issues at 32k miles. The 4 cyl is gar better and doesn’t require timing belt changes.
Most people can't tell there's something wrong with their car until the engine gives up or the wheels fall off.
That’s why I have gauges to monitor my car. Dynamic advanced multiplier, intake temps, coolant temps, oil temps, oil pressure, feedback knock, fine knock learn, air fuel ratio. Check my oil and other fluids ever other week.
I suspect low line pressure due to clogged main filter .. The main filter is inside the tranny. You have to pull the tranny, and open it up to replace the main filter. At that point, you might as well rebuild (clutches, torque converter, bearings, seals, etc), as the clutches are probably shot.😮 BTW, the engine is due for a new timing belt, and several other items, per the service schedule.
10:59 Agree Ivan, I've a '99 Toyota Camry 2.2 and they'll have to pry the keys from my cold dead hand. So simple and reliable! Up there with wood burning stoves and old Singer sewing machines. ☺️
Drivetrains in the older Toyotas are as bomb-proof as you can get with regular oil changes :)
Don't forget to keep it oiled , keep that subframe and lines in good shape, krown rust control t40 , rustcheck, fluid film , wool wax usa , corrosion free rustcure formula 3000 . Are your best friends..should you live in a salty environment.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics That's true even like you said in the other video the ones made in the 90s and early notes were very good as well.
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics My New Tacoma with its 12 Fuel injectors is a step backwards in IMHO , Would buy a USED anything before ELECTRIC or Hybrid SCAM trash
Absolutely the truth. I have 2 1998 Toyota Camry 4cyl & both never failed to start & preform plus they absolutely ask for nothing at all but gas and oil. I wish I had $ and property because I would by 15 1997 Camrys and use them for the rest of my life...
My '13 HCH junked a speed sensor. The alldata specifically said the code could not be caused by a mechanical failure in the transmission. Turned out one of the main CVT gear support bearings suffered a cage failure and the gear could move just enough to smack the sensor and ruin it. Tore it apart, replaced the bearings and back in business. (Though I don't think it was quality control on my civic. It had 226k on it when I bought it as a brick from IAAI and I don't think the trans had ever had a fluid change.)
Aha I have a 2002 Toyota Camry. 300,000 k's. Had minor coolant leaks when I got it. Not head gasket. Sorted - no coolant usage. Radiator was dirty also - replaced. Flushed cooling system. Added trans fluid radiator in front of aircon cooler. Plugged radiator trans fluid cooler. Uses less that a litre of oil in 5000 k's. Have spare trans with 64,000 k's on it.
Transmission perfect no leaks or driveshaft clickage. Slight bearing noise on one driveshaft replaced easy peasy. Engine mounts click a bit will replace rear. Too many bells and whistles on these modern cars. Not a drop of oil leaks. Replaced the timing belt as you do and replaced water pump. Replaced a seal or 2 as well. Aircon is awesome 4.5 c at the vent.
Very hot here in Aus today after 5 mins very comfortable. I totally concur that not enuff development in too much of a hurry. Car has central locking and excellent electronic ignition
with 2 coils for 4 cylinders. Replaced HT leads 5 years ago and not a misfire or spark leakage noise ever.
The motor is so quiet that I forget it is on when waiting for the other half to come. Aircon clutch a little whisper or 2 that is it. I will keep this car and not upgrade as the body has no signs of any rust from living in country Victoria. So reliable - could drive to Queensland tomorrow without a care in the world. That is the kind of transport I want. Cheers big ears no insult intended.😎
Honda has had transmission problems for years. I owned a 2000 Honda Accord. Those years were plagued with transmission issues.
Quality control has definitely hit rock bottom I would've expected more from honda considering they are like what the 2 most reliable vehicles on the road today but at least you are spreading awareness to this situation and we thank you for that
Honda Automatic Transmission are their weak point, you must change ATF fluid and only use the Honda Fluid every 30K, and it will last longer. The Manual Transmissions are solid.
I won't be buying a Honda automobile. Thanks for the analysis.
@@jeffryblackmon4846 it's any modern vehicle honestly nissan has been bad about it for years with their cvt's
Like Scotty Kilmer has said Honda was first a motorcycle company they are not good at making automatic transmissions for heavier vehicles like the Honda Odyssey Honda Pilot but they're good at smaller vehicles they're Transmissions hold up and their manual transmissions also
everything is trash now its sad
More complication inherently means more possible failures. However even uncomplicated automatic transmissions fail, mainly due to lack of maintenance. Ever notice how many transmission shops are around? I suspect a couple of fluid changes along the way might have prevented this failure and many others. A lot of manufacturers have made transmission maintenance difficult if not impossible, old and new. Even synthetic fluids don't last forever, spill and fills should be done regularly. Expensive lesson to learn.
Interestingly I have a 2008 Ford Focus auto that does the same thing, first key cycle will rev up real high before shifting HARD into 2nd and then will shift fine the rest of the drive until I park it and let the trans get cold again.
What about the fluid type being used in the refurbished transmission. Could it be the wrong type?
How hard is it to replace the clutches? Do you think both swapped transmissions have bad clutches?
Similar to my 2017 Ridgeline at 138k miles, the engine would rev but speed didn't really correlate. Also when I swapped to VML so I ended up going back to DW1.
I think the DW1 ATF and Honda 6speed auto design wasn't ment for large larger vehicles. There are some recent videos on the Lubrication experts regarding Zinc (ZDDP) in ATF. Knock on wood my AT is fine but I have the VCM disabled and I thinks
the VCM along with DW1 over many thousands of mile creates a feedback loop of slipping after high mileage as the TQ and gears get worn
I saw a stat somewhere -- 90% of all transmission failures are caused by overheating. The fluid burns up and then the transmission follows. Nobody ever does their fluid changes on time.
Yeah, we are seeing more transmission failures lately than every before. Also having HUGE problems with rebuilders, compounding the problems further.
From what they are saying, supply chain issues, quality control and a general lack of effort from staff is the main factor. Not sure when it will get better?
Honestly it seems cars can really be a financial nightmare, especially lemons. And I don't think any of the companies, Hyundai, Toyota, Volvo, Honda, Ford, etc. really care about their customers. There's just too many horror stories because they try to wiggle out of recalling defects and things like that.
HI IVAN,another good video.This brings up the issue of PROFIT ! How does a car maker increase profit for stockholders and still compete in the market place for BUYERS>>> give buyers MORE FOR LESS that's how!!! More features such as seat warmers, lane detection,No grease-able ball joints,ABS brakes,steering wheels with cell phone controls , radio and speed control,ETC. You get the idea.The weight reduction of cars to keep gas mileage higher= plastic parts,like intakes,oil pans,cooling system parts,fenders and bumpers.Consumers WANT FANCY !!! and they want it CHEAP !!! I'm just saying it's not all their fault,WE as a society have become THE throw away KINGS ,just look at the sidewalks,in your towns and city's. WHEN I drive around I see 40-50" TV'S every day,microwaves,couches,washers and dryers.YES in a way it's sad.The decline of civilization usually is.The question is can WE change OUR STARS? I hope so,thanks for your insight IVAN.
A valve can move but that doesn't mean the seals are holding pressure. Lots of valves have O-rings and backup rings that can be damaged during assembly and slowly leak until the oil pressure cuts through
depending on the layout of the hydraulics one may be able to remove the valve body and put shop air to the individual clutches. a leaky one can be heard through the vent or dipstick if it has one. if its a master slave configuration this wont help.
Ivan,
I used to like Subarus but it’s a CVT, how do you feel about the newer 2018-2020 Mazda CX5 4 cylinder, NORMAL 6 speed automatic, and no turbo. My only issue is it does shut down unnecessary cylinders, then once you need then it turns them on, I’ve heard good things though. I like the Subaru Forester because it’s bigger but a CVT, do you have any experience with the newer CX5? Made in Japan so is the Forester but the CVT, well……
I have replaced a few pilot/ Ridgeline transmissions with that code, the code usually comes at highways speed when the lock up clutch is used
I have a 2005 Mercedes e320 that had a similar problem changed the valve body conductor plate the problem stayed the same not shifting gears I was not even considering to replace transmission but I have a snap on bi directional scanner went into trans data and there were several trans programs I just picked one and the car has been ok since then it’s been about 3 years still ok
I don't understand why you ruled out the solenoid as the issue, I mean there is a code for it and it's pretty critical to the control of shifting.
Also the actuation test looked like it was starting when you pressed it (the current reading dropped to 200ma) but these things take time to run. Would have been good to give the scan tool a chance
My dad has a 2020 Ridgeline RTL-E with the 9 speed and the transmission can't make up its mind. I hate these ZF 9 speed transmissions and I'm not surprised this one has failed so soon.
Another great diagnostic.
When you change the valve body assembly don't you have to do a transmission adapter shift relearn?
I agree. I dont think cars are designed to last more than 100k. I wish I still had my 62 Ford Falcon. As for Honda, the Accord I bought in the early 90's was a lemon.
Bummer! That's why I like stick shift - no such expensive problems. By coincidence, yesterday I watched a 2 months old video from Automotive Diagnostics & Programming, using the Pico and a pressure transducer to diagnose a torque converter problem in a Jeep. I found that very interesting.
Thanks for the heads up.
SuperArabidopsis; Unfortunately manual shift transmissions are not necessarily more reliable than automatic transmissions. I bought a Pontiac Vibe (sister car to the Toyota Matrix) new in late 2002 and got a manual transmission on that theory. Besides, I prefer them and you have many more options in case of some types of malfunctions. You can't push start an automatic for example. My Vibe uses a Toyota 1ZZ-FE engine and a C59 manual transmission and has been completely trouble free for 20 years - until 2 weeks ago. It is a known defect that Toyota C59 transmission will fail at about 100 - 110K miles due to the poor quality bearings that Toyota used. Many people who drive a lot had them fail in a few years and of course these were repaired under warranty at no cost. Those of us who only have to drive 5K miles a year have them fail at the same mileage - it just takes 20 years. Because a transmission failure can unexpectedly lock up the drive train at highway speed this can result in loss of vehicle control and is thus a safety issue yet Toyota (and the governmental safety agencies) have completely failed to deal with it as such. Toyota should be ashamed of themselves...
In my case, because of widespread knowledge of this defect, I was carefully monitoring the transmission for unusual noises and when it started making them I took the car off the road immediately in order to not damage the major parts of the transmission. $3500 later the car is back on the road. The trans guy said the transmission was absolutely mint inside except for the defective/bad bearings. Thanks Toyota! I don't think I'll be buying any more cars from you in the future. I've had 3 and that is enough...
@@Vincent_Sullivan I agree, but generally, there are less parts to fail and it's less expensive to repair a manual transmission, because it's within reach of most car mechanics (doesn't require a specialized shop like www.youtube.com/@PrecisionTransmission), as it's much simpler to dismantle and reassemble. Of course, this is an European point-of-view, where most cars are manual.
I was starting to wonder if the drive to the solinoids was snappy enough.
Maybe a high current slam follwed by a holding current is needed to make them work.
Yes i do talk rubbish, but it may give you a laugh lol.
Wiring relays up as current boosters would be fun 😀
Not only AT's. Bought a brand new 2005 Honda Jazz (Fit) from new when I lived in the UK. Had a manual transmission, gearbox failed after 80,000 miles.
The owner of this Pilot must have been getting pretty horrendous gas mileage.
It would have been nice to see the original fluid for sure. Did you check the extra valve body if the spool valve inside was stuck? I’m wondering if there are floaties in the fluid that could get the spool valve stuck? If that design uses spool valves. I have never taken a Honda transmission apart.
THe Honda autos from 1990's are like their earlier two & three speed autos, they use motorcycle-like clutchpacks to transmit torque.
My only question would be how this customer maintained their transmission. Did they ever change the fluid? Although I would say, specially being in the industry, that cars now are more throw away than ever. I would also say that makes maintenance that much more important. Often times people simply don't do any maintenance and expect it to last. That's just not possible. But yes......the implementation of plastics. CVT transmissions. Tighter engine bearing tolerances to gain efficiency. Etc. Etc. All contribute to cars that just fail more often.
That was my question as well. While modern transmissions often do not even have a dipstick anymore, the manufacturers still recommend a fluid change at 60k or 80k miles. I would bet that many people having their cars serviced at independent shops end up not getting that done. I am not knocking independent shops because they may not be aware of a particular manufacturer's recommendation for a particular model unless they spend the time to look it up. Even if they do look it up and recommend it to the customer, I bet a lot of customers decline the service.
A customer stop by. He asked if I could read his CODES? I said yes.. I asked is the check engine light ON? He said yes.
Then he said... My dash says Maintenance required?? What does that mean.?
I ran the scanner.. No codes
I asked him again. You said the check engine light was on?
He said O... I meant the maintenance required..
But what does that mean ??😄😄
I told him. At certain intervals. Your car is designed to alert you need to perform the basic maintence functions.
He looked puzzled.???
I continued..basic maintenance is changing oil. Changing tires. Changing the transmission fluids or filter if it can be changed.
Changing fluids on the axles front or back as required.
He replied O
@T.J. Kong BMW is famous for this.
@T.J. Kong actually all of Hondas tranny fluid is recommended to be changed every 30k miles. I believe Toyota has the lifetime fluid
Honda AT's have been weak since about 2005. In any case, does that have a clutch pack relearn procedure via scan tool like Chryslers have? That procedure adjusts for wear after a fluid change, or valve body repair.. Just thinking out loud..
This is why I test drove a Mazda today. NO CVT! My 6th gen Accord lasted almost 300,000 miles. I miss it everyday.
I could still see it being a valve body. I'd be interested to see the condition of the fluid. I have had awful success with reman car parts
Thanks Ivan!
Honda always had weak transmissions that can't handle high torque V6 engines. There have been V6 transmission issues going back to their 4 speeds, 5 speeds for decades. It seems their transmissions were made for I4. At least in the later Pilots, they switched over to the ZF 9 speeds. Those ZF's, also in a lot of Chrysler products, aren't the greatest, but are less likely to have catastrophic failures.
Kind of ironic that the odometer on my 1986 Ford Crown Vic doesn't have a dial for the 100,000 mile digits and yet the car is now over 300K with the original engine and transmission and very minimal problems.
It would be nice to know the pressure on the clutch line it is like there is no pressure at all even when the clutch is worn out it often sti can transmit some power this is behaving like it is gone completely.
If the cars weren't so intergrated we could maybe make a controller that just skips the bad clutch.
Or custom software in the tcm hopfully in future we will be allowed to custom shift patterns.
My 95 toyota trans is still happy
governer with tv cable only thing i noticed with it is when line pressure is low ake just touching throttle in parking lot 2nd is slow to engage.
bur fine if rpm above 1300rpm.
So does the second gen pilot have an undersized size transmission oil cooler that the second gen Ridgeline has? I kept looking in this video to see if you check the temperature of the transmission fluid but I couldn't find it. Lots of owners reporting transmission fluid hitting over a 215 C and quickly degrading, like within 10 to 15 K
It could be that the little screens and filters are blocked due to clogs from bad filter or debris floatin around. Mine had that and I just changed the filters, took out the solenoids, cleaned out al the screens, and changed all the fluid. And it fixed the problem. Hondas are famous for that.
Had a similar problem with a Mitsubishi Montero - wound up replacing all solenoids which solved the problem.... But I also sold the car a year later. Not saying it would fix it with this car and, at least for the Montero, the solenoids were unavailable. I searched worldwide for months before finding some in Australia....
2019 crv touring transmission failed at 12,334 bought new they had for month three separate times before they finally replaced it. No charge and no problems since in high forties now but had my fill of bs when it all went down.
What a video and coincidence; I have ‘17 Accord, I4 engine and right now it has that “transmission system problem” at its display and it goes out anytime I turn off the car. It’s very sporadic and goes off out of nowhere. My car has 68, 000 miles on it. It’s been like this in past 10 days, it does shift and it drives but the only thing that hesitates is between 2-3 shift, I’m letting it to shift on its own in higher gear but it takes time. So what I’m doing I simply tap the gas pedal and it shift immediately after it. I can drive 80mph no problem. I took it to the dealer one day about a week ago and they scanned it for P0741 code and I was advised to replace the transmission altogether. I was quoted for nearly $7000 to replace it at a local Honda place. I was devastated. I’m still driving it diligently from home to work and back of course;
As is situation it can give up tomorrow but at the same time another 200k miles as is, who knows; I’m baby the car from the day one and I’m second owned; I put nearly 50k miles on it while in my possession;
My 16 CRV also has the same transmission and it has 105k no CVT issues yet, knock on the wood; another mechanic says it is electrical problem on it and I plan to change few things on in in coming weeks
Great video in many ways resembles my situation!
😅
You might hear the solenoid clicking, but is the plunger it's actuating actually moving? It's filter screen might be clogged with debris preventing movement or fluid flow.
The "clicking" sound is made by the moving plunger. Only variable is if it's not moving through the entire stroke 😉 I'm still wondering what was wrong with your Fiat 🤣
Honda auto transmissions have always been known for having functions fail at 100k or sooner.
The good thing is that if you can live with the hard shifts, slipping, and inappropriate downshifting they will last 300k or more.
I have a 2012 Honda Accord V6 3.5l. I noticed the other day that the "N" light when cycling through gears is red. I never noticed that before and was wondering if that is common? The P and N are red but all others are green (R, D, D3, 2, 1). Also, is it typical for my car to be at 2000 RPMs when doing 65-70 MPH on the highway?
Man I'm not happy with what you said about new cars. It took me over twenty years to make 100K on my last car. Plus I've been waiting to get a new car till I can get them for a little over msrp.. I had just made up my mind to get a two wheel drive Honda Piot. What do I do now? With my low miles per year do I have nothing to worry about? Maybe it's the years on the road I have to worry about in my case?. I thought this next car would be my last. But it sounds like maybe not.
Gear change problems is common in auto if you change oil on a unit hasn't been changed regularly, because the new oil thats high in detergents will dislodge particle that block orifices inside the unit rendering unserviceable and causing other damages.
Not true.
2019 honda odyssey 82k miles I took it to the dealership because I was a little hard shifting, and they recommended to change the oil no light in the Dodge no warning light two days later after they replace the oil on the transmission transmission breakdown.
Most old cars were super reliable, and cheap and easy to fix, honestly 2003-2010 are the best cars, couse they already are pretty safe with things like airbags, abs, but not super complicated like they are nowadays, both gasoline and diesel were very reliable in the past, and if they didnt have a turbo even better, now everything has to have a turbo, anyway for reliability is better a manual transmision and for control also, cheaper to fix and cheaper to buy
Absolutely there by far the best years to buy.
I'm wondering if that's the same transmission they put in the Honda Odyssey because they've been having nothing but problems.
My father purchased a 2016 pilot new. He only kept it for about 2 1/2 years as he moved and didn't want to take the vehicle with him. Looks like he dodged a bullet. Previously he had a 2006 ridgeline from new with 200,000 miles on it and almost no problems at all.
Get the 9 speed. Honda had some hiccups at first with the ZF transmission due to software incompatibility. They have ironed that out and the transmission performs beautifuly. 2019 model year and higher.
Ouch, this reminds me of the 2012 Honda Civic EX-L I bought to be my "forever" car. It was properly cared for and never missed a service, yet the 5-speed auto had both feet in the grave at only 105,000 miles. The worst part? It never bucked, shuddered, or hesitated, never threw a code, and never really started slipping until the very end. It did violently kick like a donkey under either initial throttle or releasing the gas pedal at operating temp, which I attributed to bad motor or transmission mounts. The independent shop I took it to to always said the same thing: we can't replicate the issue you're having. All my family members kept telling me I'm being paranoid, and my Civic is so much more durable than I was giving it credit for. As soon as I get a second opinion from another independent shop, they showed me the transmission fluid that came out - it looked dark and glittery, with some metal chunks. The owner of that shop said it could conk out at either 50,000 miles or 1,000 miles.
It had other issues too: it needed a new AC compressor at 80,000 miles, the sunroof also stopped working around the same time, Civic Paint Disease hit it HARD, it had strange electrical gremlins, seemed to eat through batteries once a year, not to mention 105k miles was right around the time to consider a new timing belt. I had to get rid of the damn thing before it was paid off because I wasn't confident the rest of the car (save the R18 engine) would last, as it seemed to keep having expensive repair bills out of sheer spite to the maintenance I gave it, hell I just bought a new set of tires for the Honda not even a month prior to getting rid of it!
Ya bummer. Might as well get a base model stick shift Civic lol
Yep, alas I couldn't drive a stick when I bought the car, and it was an emergency purchase after I had a horrific accident in my beater Ford Escape (I was okay, luckily!)
Enjoyed the video! Thanks for sharing! Sucks for owner though!
Having probelms with my accord type s for the past 3 yeara and still cant fix it - thinking its the ecu now. Replaced solendoid E, measured resistance, ran a new wire to take a faulty loom out of the way and still pops up with Solenoid E low and Solenoid E high. Can stilll drive it but only have 2nd and 3rd and no reverse unless on the off chance i restart a few times and will allow it to engage. Ive given up, got given a Nissan Fuga low milelage so the accord is parked in the garage. Ill figure it out hopefully without getting another ecu (which seems arfter looking around is a common problems with these)
It happens a lot on the pilots with the 6 speed yet to see a 10 speed fail
Looks like this new generation of workforce is finally showing in products that can be purchased.
New cars to me today have the mantra, Make it as cheap as possible by maxing out the engineering of each component, keep the initial cost low but we will hammer our customers afterwards on parts and service to make our money.
Have you checked if the solenoids are of linear type (PWM) or a normal open/close type. From the active test, it seems the solenoids accept 2 kinds of amperage, it's more likely a linear type. Thus, your method of triggering the solenoids couldn't be conclusive to determine whether they are in good working order.
make sure your transmission grounds are clean and that solenoid a is getting voltage or is with in spec thats what my 2004 v6 5speed auto had stayed in 3rd limp mode cause its a mechanical gear
Not sure if Honda has a service interval for this transmission, but most manufacturers are going with " sealed for life" transmissions. Well, looks like " life" in the Honda world equates to 100K miles.
My vague memory of the shifting procedure is: when upshifting, 1st to 2nd, the transmission is briefly in both 1st and 2nd gear until the transmission meets the criteria to completely shift to 2nd. Does this Honda transmission follow that model?
Not valve body problem. Pressure switch problem. There are five pressures switches. Cheap and easy to replace. The transmission computer is looking for a specific range of pressures before shifting into each gear. My suspicion is that one or more of the pressure switches is bad?
I have a 2012 Ridgeline with 151k with a 5 speed auto and it's the pressure switch. Mine would shift 1-4 fine but not go into 5th. Flashing D on the cluster and CEL. I was looking for a comment like yours before I posted one.
I have a 2022 CR-V EX. 12,000m and I’m on transmission number 3. 1st one had a leak at the differential output gear at 8,000m. Transmission number 2 found out was overfilled, and wouldn’t move in cold mornings, and 2h drive later after the fix, transmission blew up. CVT transmissions are unreliable. Wish they would go back to original transmission designs. Less problems and headaches. Or, keep the option of manual cars available.
WHAAAAT a lemon lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics I know!! Sucks man. Luckily I saved and documented everything like I do for all of my cars, and put them on a flash drive. Got a case with Honda now.
I would like to see data from the speed sensors. Was thinking the TCM was getting the wrong data.Or a bad TCM ?
Could this be wrong trans fluid as some gearboxes are very sensitive to incorrect fluid. Some trans also have seals and rubber tubes that get soft and affect the shifting.