I have based my understanding of kamma off of one verse from the Dhammapada: “Don’t disregard evil, thinking, ‘It won’t come back to me!’ With dripping drops of water Even a water jug is filled. Little by little, A fool is filled with evil.” -Dhammapada v.121 Wholesome thoughts, wholesome words, and wholesome actions will conduce to happiness over the course of a lifetime. But this happiness is not the happiness of the body, or happiness of circumstance, but it is happiness within the mind. Filling ourselves with wholesome qualities, we learn not to despise the situation we are in. I distinguish proper kamma from simple cause and effect. If I try to assault a man and he fights back, and prevails, this is not karma being a bitch, it is simple cause and effect. If a hydrogen bomb is detonated over a city, and a little girl dies from radiation poisoning, this is not her bad kamma coming to fruition. It is simple cause and effect. It just so happens that she had nothing to do with the cause. If I live a life of luxury, showing no generosity, speaking harshly to my workers and showing contempt to the world, my mind will be pervaded with ill-will and dissatisfaction. This is kamma. At it will have led me to being reborn as an “asura” in that very life.
Thanks Dane, great thoughts. That's a very important verse you cite, as is the opening to the Dhammapada that the state of our mind can transform our world into good or bad. 🙏
I think your understanding is pretty much in line with the early sutras and abiddharma. Buddhism just says that if there's another life, your mind there will probably be a continuation of the mind you cultivated here. For me that's not that big of a leap.
Seeing karma as intention made it necessary that I consider my intentions and values and put them into action on a daily basis. For example, "I intend to be mindful throughout this day just as it happens from moment to moment and cultivate loving kindness, compassion, joy for others joy and equanimity."
Wow! I'm in possitive shock because I realize how big is my ignorance!!! Thank you for being so clear in your explanation, that means a blessing for me because I am not an academic person but I really love to learn. Lotus for you. Evangelina Cortes.
Doug, I am grateful for your clear and well presented TH-cam videos. As a follower of Buddhism who lives in a rural area, it is difficult for me to access teachings and fellowship of a Sangha. Your videos (and those of some other teachers) are invaluable to me in my journey on the Path. I especially appreciate your references to the original texts and academic research into the original definitions of words and phrases used in those texts. I sometimes feel that some modern day authors feel obliged to “Westernize” many Pali and Sanskrit terms and risk the possibility of losing the true meaning of those terms. You have a way of helping many of us understand the old teachings through fair and balanced examination. By the way, I love your outdoor backdrop videos with squirrels and birdsong ;). Many thanks, a Canadian subscriber.
Very nice to hear Doug thanks for the kind comment! As for the outdoor videos, they’re rare since they depend on good enough weather and not too much outdoor noise. I do them when I can! 🙏
Doug, I think you nailed it :) "Intention (cetana) I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect." AN 6.63 Nibbedhika Sutta: Penetrative
I just began listening/watching your videos over the weekend and I've really enjoyed them. This is the first time I've actually been sitting at a desk while doing it. It was interesting to learn about the development of the concept over time. I have to say that several years ago I almost stopped studying Buddhism as soon as I began because of the notion of karma. I viewed it as a way to unfairly blame individuals and oppress entire groups of people for their unfortunate circumstances. It felt like an inherently oppressive and unjust concept. So, it was interesting to hear you describe it in it's traditional form as a way to provide perfect justice. I decided to simply bracket the concept and study what did actually make sense to me. So my preference is to simply stay away from the word. Now it's typically used in popular expression to mean that someone will get their comeuppance. "Karma's a #$%&*." So, I have even more reason to avoid it in daily conversation. I don't want to support the tendency human beings have to blame victims and generally withhold support and grace from those suffering out of a sense that their deserve their plight.
Wow yeah Amy thanks for bringing that aspect of karma up, it's really important to mention. One of the problems with traditional karma is this notion that someone born into a bad situation may in some sense be "responsible" for it by having done bad things in past lives. I hope that when we update the concept we can leave that baggage behind.
Recently I've formulated a possible take on karma for myself. Karma is a complex of all the circumstances in our life: genes from our parents, upbringing, social status of your family, culture and of course actions that influence us - actions of other people and our own ones. All people "reborn" in their children through genes and actions, but in other people, too, again through actions (and intentions). Everyone is influenced by another one, which in turn has its impact on one's life and actions, which then affects another one. Yes, in this case the concept of the new life is a bit blurred. Here each action is a grain of a new life. And your video really helped, because before I didn't even want to think about such thing as karma, thinking that it can be interpreted only in connection with reincarnation. But now I really enjoy trying to get deeper meanings of some religious aspects of early Indian teachings and Buddhism as well.
Great comments, Anastasia. Yes, there are ways to reinterpret karma so as to keep what is beneficial in the teaching while setting aside the parts that make less sense to us today.
If there's no self, rebirth is nothing more than your continuation, so, teaching something to someone is a form of rebirth. What gets reborn are the mental qualities. Thich Nhat Hanm talks a lot about this kind of thing. We can choose to be a rebirth of the Buddah in this world and keeping passing the "flame" to aliviate countless beings suffering.
Very helpful. Thank you 🙏🏻. I have been taught a secular understanding of karma as a kind of psychological process of cause and effect, as well as the general “if you are good to others, they are more likely to be good to you” approach you describe here. The idea being that if you cultivate patterns of behaviour with skilful and wholesome intentions and actions, you will build a state of mind that is at peace. If, however, you build cultivate patterns of behaviour with intentions and actions rooted in greed or hatred, you cultivate a state of mind in which you must then live that is filled with bitterness, jealousy, greed, etc. - craving that is never satisfied and aversion that is never overcome. So it doesn’t mean that everything that happens to you is based on your karma, by a long shot. But a lot is. And how you respond to what happens to you and the quality of being that you experience as a result of those responses very much is based on your past intentions and actions - on your karma.
Thank you for this no-nonsense approach to this topic. Speaking of karma as intention makes this more accessible for those of us who don't accept the notion that there is anything beyond this life. Why is it that some of these key words (dharma/dhamma, karma, anatta, dukkha) are left in the ancient language where their true meaning is obscured?
Glad you found the video useful, and thanks for your question Mark. The question about whether to translate or not to translate certain of these key terms will be around for awhile I'm afraid. The problem is that either one has to translate them differently in different contexts (see for example my video on what "dharma" means in Buddhism: th-cam.com/video/GYJ_k4pITsM/w-d-xo.html), or one just has to bite the bullet and use the Pāli/Sanskrit term itself. In the case of karma, the term has actually pretty well already entered the English language anyway, so it's not that big of a stretch just to clarify it. But I admit this isn't for everyone, some secular practitioners prefer to use only native English terminology so as to make things seem more familiar. Personally I enjoy some cultural mixing. 😀
Hello Doug, Another great video on a topic that stimulates much thought. As many others have concluded, I have never viewed karma as fatalistic, in so far as we can see that our past actions either in this or previous lives are responsible at least in part for our present condition. It is also difficult to accept that ones intentions are responsible for an individuals karma since well intentioned actions performed unskillfully may produce bad results. This reasoning appears as you point out to be a response to practices in Buddha's time that ritualistic actions would lead to good karma. From this view it may not be reasonable to assume that a good action will result in some future reward. Rather, I must assume that right intention is an essential element of the eightfold path and thus ones quest for enlightenment.
Thanks! Indeed, right intention is key to karma in the Buddha's understanding. I have another video that might be useful, about how good intentions can misfire: th-cam.com/video/sToH97sMs9c/w-d-xo.html
I believe this is helpful as in the here and now. Karma as intention is a sensible way to approach your daily life and cultivate goodness in as many of your acts as possible. I personally do believe in rebirth, but this video is helpful to me as a reminder to try and keep my intentions pure.
My view of karma is more of creating a negative or positive mindset when I read the dharma online it had a (mind) next to karma when it was mentioned.I read a comment that said if you walk down the street with a positive mind, everything's cheap,walk down the street with a negative mind,everything's expensive. I honestly can't explain it better unfortunately that's the best I can do.
Thanks for your thoughts, Everyone's wired different! For sure one's mindset enters into intention and hence the ethical character of one's interaction with the world.
I just wanted to say that I am enjoying your channel, it is fascinating to hear a secular Buddhist perspective. Though your coverage of Western theistic concepts (Christian) of justice was just an example, I would point out that the field of perspectives is considerably more broad. So, while your portrayal was fair and accurate for some, others who accept other perspectives may not understand. They may feel misrepresented, which may be a stumbling block for them. For instance, within Christian schools of thought, some believe in eternal punishment, as you mentioned, but others believe in eternal non-existence. Those who read the Bible with a more concrete and teaching-focused perspective will argue that souls are destroyed in Hell, while the remaining thinkers who believe in non-existence will argue that the passages on Hell are allegorical. Thus, Hell can be for punishment, disposal, or symbolic of human relations on earth, when one does not repent/change. These perspectives assume that Hell exists in a literal/concrete or abstract/conceptual way. Other schools of thought believe that Hell does not exist as a place or concept, that modern arguments or perspectives on Hell are simply misinterpretations in general. Similar patterns of thought also exist for Heaven. Some believe in a temporary Heaven, an eternal one, symbolic of good human relationships on earth, or that it is also a misinterpretation. Similar patterns of thought exist for causes of entry, either to Heaven or Hell, assuming that one accepts an afterlife as a concept. Some will argue that actions can be good, while others argue that only God is good. Some do not accept the concept of good in general. Some believe that salvation comes from an expression of repentance and submission, or that faith is much more complex. Thus, some believe that faith is largely semantic, particularly protestants, while Catholics tend to accept a more episodic experience of faith. Buddhism, in contrast, especially Zen traditions, will sometimes have a more procedural (or skill-based) understanding of religiosity. In summary, Western perspectives on Hell, Heaven, goodness, and salvation are quite diverse; however, due to church conflicts with modernism, many Protestant churches today focus on a more "literal" and absolute-truth perspective on the Bible.
Absolutely right fskate2, all I can hope to do in these videos is to give an introduction to the topics. There is way too much to get into, indeed any of the subjects you raised (heaven, hell, the afterlife, God, good, evil, faith, etc.) would require whole graduate level seminars and more ... 🙂
Dear Doug: this question is slightly off topic but I discovered that in 1914 the French classical composer Lili Boulanger composed choral orchestral piece called Old Buddhist Prayer or "Vieille prière bouddhique". I haven't been able to ascertain the specific source of her text and was wondering if you recognized it. I did watch your video and I don't have the definite answer but I like looking at the self-deterministic aspects. Below is the text set to music by Lili Boulanger: Que toute chose qui respire -- que toutes les créatures et partout, tous les esprits et tous ceux qui sont nés, que toutes les femmes, que tous les hommes, les Aryens, et les non-Aryens, tous les dieux et tous les humains et ceux qui sont déchus, en orient et en Occident, au Nord et au Sud, que tous les êtres qui existent -- sans ennemis, sans obstacles, surmontant la douleur et atteignant le bonheur, puisse se mouvoir librement, chacun dans la voie qui lui est destinée. English - Google Translate That everything that breathes - that all creatures and everywhere, all minds and all who are born, that all women, all men, the Aryans, and the non-Aryans, all the gods and all the humans and those who are fallen, in East and West, North and South, that all beings that exist - without enemies, without obstacles, overcoming pain and reaching happiness, can move freely, each one in the way destined for him.
Hi Lee and thanks for the question. I'm not entirely sure where that comes from, perhaps someone else can recognize it, but it does bear some resemblance to the famous Mettā (lovingkindness) Sutta of the Suttanipāta. It *could* be a sort of free revision of that work. Here is one translation of the Mettā Sutta: suttacentral.net/en/snp1.8
Doug thank you for the teaching The Buddha if i remember right said to fully understand karma one must be a full Buddha since my early life i have been studding Karma when i began to consciously practice good things it seemed my life mellowed out still eruptions of what we might call negative Karma still emerge this is referred to as Parabda Karma or Karma from my past so i continue to apply intention like being awake when i drive a nail otherwise i end up with a very sore thumb or remembering to brush my teeth in the morning other wise I'll have cavities. the thing about Karma is it may not involve the same person that you shot but you may be shot by some totally different person. Pretty wild stuff.
Intentional actions creats Karma. This Karma manifest itself in two ways. First as habit. What we repeatedly do is who we become. It then takes effort to change habits. Then there are individual big decisions, these also make us who we are, not through habit, these big actions shape our personality. We are the choices we make. You cannot change your personality or habits over night, it takes hard work, this is us working off the bad karma we created.
Hi Doug! I was wondering if you thought 'Karma' or in reality 'cause and effect' was a component of 'Dependent co-arising'? This is because that is. That is because this is. And also what your thoughts on 'the ripple effect' are. I am of the belief that we can have quite an effect on the lives of people we come into contact with and from there radiating outward. In either a positive or negative fashion.
Hi Patrick, yes indeed. Our effect on others can ripple outwards, so being positive to one person can have positive effects on many, and the same for the negative. Good to keep in mind as we go about our day!
Thanks again for your generous work. In general I find the Buddhist perspective logically consistent. There are claims that become difficult, shall we say to verify. However, doing what the Buddha asks us to do, I.e. Test his claims has, for this one, produced surprisingly simple supported conclusions. Life is indeed impermanent, full of suffering for example. The claims made that are recognised as true give me cause or faith to continue testing more claims. Currently I am meditating on this question of Karma and merit. Perhaps you can help me with it? I perceive the reality of the secular cause and effect of Karma. Therefore, my questioning IS more upon the traditional viewpoint. In the spirit of; if the claims, in this context, are so far true is there a way to observe the truth or validity of the more traditional claims? Again within the context of Karma. If Karma is present through lifetimes, are we able to observe it? Putting the subjective recognition of one's own previous lifetimes and karma to the side for now. I am pondering the karma that is produced by the amplification of modern technology. For example, Doug pre TH-cam helping others to understand the Dharma vs Current Doug amplifying that merit through your channel now. Or a Bodhisattva in a village of 1000 people 1000 years ago vs a Bodhisattva on TH-cam reaching 2 million people. In both cases, assuming TH-cam lasts down the ages. That same individual's cause and effect must be multiplied by a factor of X. Depending on many unknown variables. Even before the Internet there was telivison and radio. What becomes of the cause and consequence, karma, of all the famous people that brought comfort and laughter to millions of people? Should we not be able to observe the effects of such radical amplification in the world? Especially from Bodhisattva merit? Perhaps the acceleration of Cancer curing medicine, a decline of violence, greed and corruption? Or in some other way I've yet to perceive?
I don't know about that FPP, in general the Buddhist outlook on the world is that it is samsara: it cycles through good times and bad, through creation and destruction. So there isn't an idea of growing good karma leading to some ideal end of time. Indeed, though there is good karma in the world, there is also bad karma. There are people doing good things, and people doing bad things. It all gets amplified and also diluted through time.
I always felt there is a connection between Karma & Samskara, we have free will but we're predisposed to follow habits we've practiced over who knows how many lifetimes. Thoughts please? 🙏
Yes, there is a link there. Traditionally our volitional tendencies are understood to have been lain down by past karma. And within this lifetime, our past habits cause future tendencies as well.
Thank you for taking the time, Doug.❤️ I also really enjoyed your video on secular Buddhism's roots in Thai Buddhism where i went to study it, animism & traditional herbs. The most fascinating ten years of my life. Keep up your good work, my friend in dhamma🙏
Also, i never knew that kamma meant intention to the Buddha! I like that this overlaps with the good Samaritan law...as a kid, i always thought that was the right way and that the cliche'the road to hell is paved with good intentions is one of the most widely believed spiritual untruths out there.
Hi Doug. The Buddha said that the saṃsāra is beginningless (anamatagga), that is to say: there isn't a beginning point of living beings transmigrating. But contemporary cosmology informs us that the life in the universe insn't always existed, consequently there must be a starting point of livings transmigrating. Furthermore, kamma - as we know - is intentional action: it corresponds to cetanā, the intention behind or before the material action. But, again, if the life isn't always existed in the universe, so we must conclude that also rebirth determined by kamma not existing from always: it exists from the moment of arising of life and, more in particular, from the moment of arising of living beings with faculty of will. What do you think?
Well as a secular practitioner I leave such questions to one side as being speculative. That said, a traditional Buddhist would probably say there were other universes as well.
@@DougsDharma Thank you for the answer. The idea of a multiplicity of universes is clearly stated in the Pali Canon or in later Pali works (such as the Visuddhimagga)? But even accepting this idea, the problem continues to be, because in each universe, singly considered, the rebirth would arising only when life reaches a level of complexity that allows intentional actions. Not to mention how consciousness could pass from one universe to another.
I’m new to the path of Buddhism but I’m really struggling with this notion of karma and reincarnation which seems to be full problems if you think about it. For example: How can a worm hope to climb out of the animal realms when it lacks the capacity to think as we do and shed it’s bad karma? Is it’s fate to be eaten by a bird and reborn again? In which case is it as another worm? If so then why reincarnate as a worm in the first place? Who decides the first incarnation? If it is perfect to start why is there a need to reincarnate? Are all animals previously humans/ hungry ghosts etc? Or are some of them simply created by God with neutral karma ? If their karma is neutral will they continue to manifest as the same animal for infinity? Even if you ignore these issues and say “well that’s doesn’t matter because you can just concern yourself with consequences in there here and now and hope for the best after you die” this does not provide the strong drive to do good and reject evil that’s seen in other faiths like Islam. I would love some insight into these issues🙏🏾
I have a playlist on elements of karma that might interest you: th-cam.com/play/PL0akoU_OszRgwcF_eKqxg8ok0w_dz2sj_.html . That said, as a secular practitioner I leave aside the more speculative aspects of karma, particularly those having to do with rebirth. Just to be clear, in traditional Buddhism there is no creator God, and there is no "first incarnation". Rebirth is said to go back into the indefinite past, and may potentially be infinite. Karma will not as a matter of course remain exactly the same through time, since vicissitudes of action and intention will change future births. And since traditionalists accept heaven and hell realms there is a similar incentive to do good and reject evil as in theistic faith systems.
Thank you Doug. Say a farmer cuts worms trying to make ground for his farm. His intention is to produce food, but not to harm worms. "Farmer does know that worms are going to be harmed. But he does not intend to." "I wash hands with soap before serving food, having the intention to clean them, and I know bacteria are going to be harmed. But I do not intend to harm bacteria, just to clean my hands" How can we make sense of these statements? Do you you think there is a fruition for these karma? Personally I think there will be some 'degree of fruition' of these actions, but not strong as a willful harm.
One prominent example is the case of Angulimala. His intention was just to obey his teacher, but I cannot think that he did not know of harming lives of people by doing that. If I am correct, he became Arahant within the same life-time despite committing many killings. However he still got stricken by stones etc,. which would amount to a minor fruition compared to other circumstances.
Hello again Doug. Q. Being born in a miserable shack or being born in a generous castle has to do with the individual's own past lives bad or good intentional actions?
Well, it's complicated, as I say in the video. Traditionally one's situation of birth *can* be a result of bad karma in prior lifetimes, though it isn't necessarily. My own sense is that prior-lifetime karma is not a skillful idea in this regard, and probably should be considered at the very least speculative.
@@DougsDharma .. Well, to me it should be FAIR to say that one's own condition is the result of one's own actions and nothing else. Though it's comfortable to attribute it to other causes like "luck, fate, ramdomty, etc" from FEAR to accept the fact of totally being responsible for one's own condition. Thank you again for your kind attention.
I cannot speak for another but though I mean well, my intentions are purely selfish. In that I donate to charitable organizations, on reflection I understand it was to make me feel better about not being selfish and therefore selfish in original intent. Make sense?
Sure it makes sense, Michael. I think that's how most of us operate most of the time. But I think we can be aware that there is good in donating to worthy causes even if those donations aren't always done with the best of intentions. That is, we have to be charitable to ourselves as well as others, and work towards a better future.
Its great to have good intentions, and indeed wise to be that way. But many beautiful people only have love in their hearts, do good, are kind and wise - yet suffer the most appalling abuse in this world. Unless there is indeed some kind of "ledger" as you say, but I don't really believe in that. Also, say you are angry and you say in your heart "I could kill that person!", and your intention is true at that point. Of course you don't kill anyone, because you have calmed down - and your rational brain has kicked in. Is that intention scrubbed out, because it led no where? Great video Doug, provokes many thoughts.
Thanks VM! As to good people having to suffer, one can only do what one can do in treating people well. There are no guarantees in my mind though. Intentions not acted upon are still intentions, but if we strive to denourish them over time, they can become less powerful and hence less likely to lead to mischief. At least that's the Buddha's view of it.
I agree with you my friend. I don't like the fatalistic approach because it is devoid of any benefit, at least to me. If I have allergies in this lifetime, it doesn't mean I did something to justify it in a previous life. And if that's the case, I have absolutely no way of knowing that then it doesn't matter. That is why the Buddha said only arahants should contemplate kamma. In addition I don't believe kamma to be a physical phenomenon, but rather a mental one. Our responses to external, worldly things.
Some new age doctrines say this life is for learning. If I steal from my workplace and my boss steals from me, and I interpret my misfortune as payback for my theft, I have learned something. But if a child is born handicapped what have they learned? They can't remember their past life.
I do find it best to just view karma in terms of this lifetime, but if you wish to view it outside that scope, I would hightly advise considering string theory.
@@DougsDharma Why I mention string theory is because it provides an interesting view of all things being interconnected, even in multiple dimensions. Considering it in the secular view, it is a way to picture how were are all dependent upon each other. You could think of the strings as Karma. That being said, I doubt it is correct view, but rather a way to picture Karma.
Think of Karma as the law of causing and effect. The law of cause and effect in the real world does not need to be complicated. We do a skillful action with mindful intent can create positive results. Unskillful actions can bring negative results. every action we do in this life has has consequences, those actions become a part of our reality. All the actions combine to create reality. Past actions can effect the present, that is why we plan for the future. We make actions to meet with possible future situations. Actions made by others create our current karma, thus effect our reality Just a my thoughts
I suppose in confession practice there is 3 type of karma - body, speech and mind, which the mind is formless hence have no boundary, the karma of the mind is the heaviest of the three. Unintentional actions would have physical limits if you consider the domino effect stacked upon the butterfly effect an action can only causes limited numbers of repercussions. However mindful action can create imprints which would led to a person being more familiar with something. Hence the tendency for a "karmic imprint" or "karmic signature" (Personality) to exists and the "karmic inertia" of said actions collectively generating a sense of familiarity and proficiency at doing something. Basically it is inputting data into a person's five aggregates, which architects the construct of "self" with the data collected as a mind is trying to justify itself of existence, This "karmic inertia" is very much related with the "power of training" It can be positive or negative given how one practices, if a person is used to generosity then it is easy for one to keep on the practice and not be troubled by greed and stinginess, which mental affliction can be quite bad. the action of generosity can led to peers being influenced and joining the crowd (collective karma of charity) If a person is used to killing, then it is easy for a person to keep killing more and not feel remorseful, it would be harder to generate compassion while killing is taken as a easy thing. the action of killing also led to people thinking killing is a normal and socially acceptable behavior, and comfort in peers doing the same actions (collective karma of killing) The karmic imprint/ karmic signature seems to be tuning towards the six realm of rebirths. Meaning the collective outcome of the imprint will steer a sentient beings towards a certain realm. But in real life when we are excessively attached to such actions and emotions we can experience the feeling of lower realms. These are usually the emotions related to the action, hence a mindful action actually fuels the emotions and strengthen the imprint. and it seems the harm caused upon oneself is not that insignificant. Killing - Hatred - Hell Realm (burnt by fire of anger) [harmful to Liver] Stealing - Greed - Hungry Ghost Realm (excessive craving, constant unsatisfactory) [harmful to Heart] Wrongful Sex - Ignorance - Animal Realm (seeking pleasure without exhibition of wisdom) [harmful to Kidney]
Is there a perfect karmic return in buddhism....what i understood was there are 5 resons and karma is just one of them....and things we experience are a result of not only that 5 reasons but a result of different karmic actions as well...the famous salt example is a good example .. Bit of salt mixed in to a cup of water makes it salt but the same amount mixed in say a pool have no affect at all....so a result of a single karmic action couldbe diluted by other karmic actions and by other reasons ...so buddhist karma is not a perfect justice systems nor a fatalist idea...we have some control over it.
Hi Billy, the Buddha does say that not everything we experience is due to karma, and that we can dilute bad karma with good intentions and actions. But he also says that rebirth is due to our karmic baggage. As a secular believer I set those claims aside, but he does make them. 🙂
@@DougsDharma correct me if i'm wrong, the relation with karma and rebirth is where the final thought be comes the reason or the cause which determines state of the next new thought stream give rise to... other than that does it says that rebirth occur mainly as a result of only karma?
To my knowledge it is never spelled out in the early texts that rebirth is due to the final thought of the prior lifetime. I think this comes from the abhidhamma. However the Buddha does talk about people being reborn on numerous occasions, and it’s exclusively due to their karmic baggage. For the Buddha, karma (kamma) would inevitably fruit unless one became awakened and thus escaped samsara.
@@DougsDharma if one is not attained arahat status, the last thought need to give rise to a resulting thought right..isn't that all that is to buddhas idea of a rebirth that there is bound to have a state("bavaya") created(based on dependent origination)in somewhere in the universe to give rise to that resulting thought and eventually start a new stream of conscious thoughts ..if u define karma is the causal flow of thoughts then i guess then it makes sense to say rebirth is due to karma...
Somehow it doesn't seem fair or even make sense that certain people were born into good families and some into bad. Some are born with more privileges and some extremely poor. Some are born with good genes and some with mental and/or physical deficiencies. Some have good lucks and some have bad. What determines one's fate? Certainly one is ultimately responsible for one's own fate. However, new borns don't have that kind of ability. So exactly what makes a new born the way he/she/it is? Without Karma, this is a million $ question to me. At the least, the concept of Karma says that every living being has endless opportunities to redeem oneself. Likewise, every living being has endless opptunities to go astray. Nothing is permanent and everything is ever changing, so is one's karma. One's own fate is in one's very own hands. it seems to me nothing can explain such phenomenon better than karma including reincarnation.
Yes, if we're looking for perfect justice, such that everything is fair, then karma and rebirth are the way to go. But if the universe isn't necessarily just or fair, then we can simply fall back onto explaining injustice through historical causes and conditions. That still leaves endless opportunities open to us in the future for making things better.
In the many religious Buddhist traditions, it seems to me that the ideology of Kamma-vipaka is a Just World theory, with all the ethical problems it brings. It's between the stuff that made me leave Theravada Buddhism.
I think Buddhas discussion of karma made sense when he disagreed with Vedic brahminism. But now, saying it’s intention makes not much impact, I mean we are destroying the planet.I could say not intentional but, I have been complicit
Thanks for the point, Marcos, you’re absolutely right. But at the very least we can start off on the right foot by having good intentions rather than bad. There is a separate issue having to do let’s say with ignorance or negligence, where the good intention is thwarted by our not knowing how to carry out the good intention properly. But whatever our intention and our knowledge the world may well get in our way.
The notion of rebirth for perfect justice seems nice, until you realize how it has been used to justify the suffering of the poor as punishment for past lifes.
@@DougsDharma I certainly don't have as much knowledg of the Pali Canon as you do, I'm not denying there's karma in buddhism. But karma is not fair. People in this life suffer from mistakes they made in other live due to confusion that lead them to cultivate unskillefull minds. They don't even remember their mistakes. The whole karmic cycle is full of suffering. The problem of the existence of suffering and unfairness of karma is the main argument against a benevolent all powerfull God in Buddhism.
Another example of willful ignorance; when the Buddha told disciples they can eat meat if they didn’t suspect the animal was killed for them. Yeah I never suspected
I think the Western use of the word is too woo-woo and frankly unsound for me (that is, the notion that if you do good, good will come to you, etc.; there are plenty of people for whom that isn't the case). On the other hand, I don't use/buy into the Eastern notion, mostly because I don't believe in rebirth. I do think that notion of karma is more interesting, though.
There's cause and effect in the physical world which we can't avoid. Karma on an esoteric level is a mental construct based on preconceived notions, and is one of the first things to go when one becomes enlightened or awake. In Tibetan Buddhism, this is emphasized in The Liberation through the bardo thodol :)
I have based my understanding of kamma off of one verse from the Dhammapada:
“Don’t disregard evil, thinking,
‘It won’t come back to me!’
With dripping drops of water
Even a water jug is filled.
Little by little,
A fool is filled with evil.”
-Dhammapada v.121
Wholesome thoughts, wholesome words, and wholesome actions will conduce to happiness over the course of a lifetime. But this happiness is not the happiness of the body, or happiness of circumstance, but it is happiness within the mind. Filling ourselves with wholesome qualities, we learn not to despise the situation we are in. I distinguish proper kamma from simple cause and effect. If I try to assault a man and he fights back, and prevails, this is not karma being a bitch, it is simple cause and effect. If a hydrogen bomb is detonated over a city, and a little girl dies from radiation poisoning, this is not her bad kamma coming to fruition. It is simple cause and effect. It just so happens that she had nothing to do with the cause.
If I live a life of luxury, showing no generosity, speaking harshly to my workers and showing contempt to the world, my mind will be pervaded with ill-will and dissatisfaction. This is kamma. At it will have led me to being reborn as an “asura” in that very life.
Thanks Dane, great thoughts. That's a very important verse you cite, as is the opening to the Dhammapada that the state of our mind can transform our world into good or bad. 🙏
I think your understanding is pretty much in line with the early sutras and abiddharma. Buddhism just says that if there's another life, your mind there will probably be a continuation of the mind you cultivated here. For me that's not that big of a leap.
fantastic and wise explanation thank you for sharing
Seeing karma as intention made it necessary that I consider my intentions and values and put them into action on a daily basis. For example, "I intend to be mindful throughout this day just as it happens from moment to moment and cultivate loving kindness, compassion, joy for others joy and equanimity."
Great Aron, that's a wonderful realization. Thanks for sharing it.
Wow! I'm in possitive shock because I realize how big is my ignorance!!! Thank you for being so clear in your explanation, that means a blessing for me because I am not an academic person but I really love to learn. Lotus for you. Evangelina Cortes.
That's very nice Evangelina, I'm glad you are finding the talks useful. 🙏
Doug, I am grateful for your clear and well presented TH-cam videos. As a follower of Buddhism who lives in a rural area, it is difficult for me to access teachings and fellowship of a Sangha. Your videos (and those of some other teachers) are invaluable to me in my journey on the Path. I especially appreciate your references to the original texts and academic research into the original definitions of words and phrases used in those texts. I sometimes feel that some modern day authors feel obliged to “Westernize” many Pali and Sanskrit terms and risk the possibility of losing the true meaning of those terms. You have a way of helping many of us understand the old teachings through fair and balanced examination. By the way, I love your outdoor backdrop videos with squirrels and birdsong ;). Many thanks, a Canadian subscriber.
Very nice to hear Doug thanks for the kind comment! As for the outdoor videos, they’re rare since they depend on good enough weather and not too much outdoor noise. I do them when I can! 🙏
Doug, I think you nailed it :)
"Intention (cetana) I tell you, is kamma. Intending, one does kamma by way of body, speech, & intellect."
AN 6.63
Nibbedhika Sutta: Penetrative
Thanks Pannyavaddhi! Yes that's the sutta. 🙂
I just began listening/watching your videos over the weekend and I've really enjoyed them. This is the first time I've actually been sitting at a desk while doing it. It was interesting to learn about the development of the concept over time. I have to say that several years ago I almost stopped studying Buddhism as soon as I began because of the notion of karma. I viewed it as a way to unfairly blame individuals and oppress entire groups of people for their unfortunate circumstances. It felt like an inherently oppressive and unjust concept. So, it was interesting to hear you describe it in it's traditional form as a way to provide perfect justice. I decided to simply bracket the concept and study what did actually make sense to me. So my preference is to simply stay away from the word. Now it's typically used in popular expression to mean that someone will get their comeuppance. "Karma's a #$%&*." So, I have even more reason to avoid it in daily conversation. I don't want to support the tendency human beings have to blame victims and generally withhold support and grace from those suffering out of a sense that their deserve their plight.
Wow yeah Amy thanks for bringing that aspect of karma up, it's really important to mention. One of the problems with traditional karma is this notion that someone born into a bad situation may in some sense be "responsible" for it by having done bad things in past lives. I hope that when we update the concept we can leave that baggage behind.
Recently I've formulated a possible take on karma for myself. Karma is a complex of all the circumstances in our life: genes from our parents, upbringing, social status of your family, culture and of course actions that influence us - actions of other people and our own ones. All people "reborn" in their children through genes and actions, but in other people, too, again through actions (and intentions). Everyone is influenced by another one, which in turn has its impact on one's life and actions, which then affects another one. Yes, in this case the concept of the new life is a bit blurred. Here each action is a grain of a new life.
And your video really helped, because before I didn't even want to think about such thing as karma, thinking that it can be interpreted only in connection with reincarnation. But now I really enjoy trying to get deeper meanings of some religious aspects of early Indian teachings and Buddhism as well.
Great comments, Anastasia. Yes, there are ways to reinterpret karma so as to keep what is beneficial in the teaching while setting aside the parts that make less sense to us today.
If there's no self, rebirth is nothing more than your continuation, so, teaching something to someone is a form of rebirth. What gets reborn are the mental qualities. Thich Nhat Hanm talks a lot about this kind of thing. We can choose to be a rebirth of the Buddah in this world and keeping passing the "flame" to aliviate countless beings suffering.
Very helpful. Thank you 🙏🏻. I have been taught a secular understanding of karma as a kind of psychological process of cause and effect, as well as the general “if you are good to others, they are more likely to be good to you” approach you describe here. The idea being that if you cultivate patterns of behaviour with skilful and wholesome intentions and actions, you will build a state of mind that is at peace. If, however, you build cultivate patterns of behaviour with intentions and actions rooted in greed or hatred, you cultivate a state of mind in which you must then live that is filled with bitterness, jealousy, greed, etc. - craving that is never satisfied and aversion that is never overcome. So it doesn’t mean that everything that happens to you is based on your karma, by a long shot. But a lot is. And how you respond to what happens to you and the quality of being that you experience as a result of those responses very much is based on your past intentions and actions - on your karma.
Excellent, yes it makes a lot of sense doesn't it.
Thank you for this no-nonsense approach to this topic. Speaking of karma as intention makes this more accessible for those of us who don't accept the notion that there is anything beyond this life.
Why is it that some of these key words (dharma/dhamma, karma, anatta, dukkha) are left in the ancient language where their true meaning is obscured?
Glad you found the video useful, and thanks for your question Mark. The question about whether to translate or not to translate certain of these key terms will be around for awhile I'm afraid. The problem is that either one has to translate them differently in different contexts (see for example my video on what "dharma" means in Buddhism: th-cam.com/video/GYJ_k4pITsM/w-d-xo.html), or one just has to bite the bullet and use the Pāli/Sanskrit term itself. In the case of karma, the term has actually pretty well already entered the English language anyway, so it's not that big of a stretch just to clarify it. But I admit this isn't for everyone, some secular practitioners prefer to use only native English terminology so as to make things seem more familiar. Personally I enjoy some cultural mixing. 😀
Hello Doug, Another great video on a topic that stimulates much thought. As many others have concluded, I have never viewed karma as fatalistic, in so far as we can see that our past actions either in this or previous lives are responsible at least in part for our present condition. It is also difficult to accept that ones intentions are responsible for an individuals karma since well intentioned actions performed unskillfully may produce bad results. This reasoning appears as you point out to be a response to practices in Buddha's time that ritualistic actions would lead to good karma. From this view it may not be reasonable to assume that a good action will result in some future reward. Rather, I must assume that right intention is an essential element of the eightfold path and thus ones quest for enlightenment.
Thanks! Indeed, right intention is key to karma in the Buddha's understanding. I have another video that might be useful, about how good intentions can misfire: th-cam.com/video/sToH97sMs9c/w-d-xo.html
Love the squirrel videobombing at 6:04
😄
I believe this is helpful as in the here and now. Karma as intention is a sensible way to approach your daily life and cultivate goodness in as many of your acts as possible. I personally do believe in rebirth, but this video is helpful to me as a reminder to try and keep my intentions pure.
Thanks Billy, you’re right. What matters is kindness and pure intentions. Hard to live up to it all the time but we try! 🙏
My view of karma is more of creating a negative or positive mindset when I read the dharma online it had a (mind) next to karma when it was mentioned.I read a comment that said if you walk down the street with a positive mind, everything's cheap,walk down the street with a negative mind,everything's expensive. I honestly can't explain it better unfortunately that's the best I can do.
Thanks for your thoughts, Everyone's wired different! For sure one's mindset enters into intention and hence the ethical character of one's interaction with the world.
I just wanted to say that I am enjoying your channel, it is fascinating to hear a secular Buddhist perspective. Though your coverage of Western theistic concepts (Christian) of justice was just an example, I would point out that the field of perspectives is considerably more broad. So, while your portrayal was fair and accurate for some, others who accept other perspectives may not understand. They may feel misrepresented, which may be a stumbling block for them. For instance, within Christian schools of thought, some believe in eternal punishment, as you mentioned, but others believe in eternal non-existence. Those who read the Bible with a more concrete and teaching-focused perspective will argue that souls are destroyed in Hell, while the remaining thinkers who believe in non-existence will argue that the passages on Hell are allegorical. Thus, Hell can be for punishment, disposal, or symbolic of human relations on earth, when one does not repent/change. These perspectives assume that Hell exists in a literal/concrete or abstract/conceptual way. Other schools of thought believe that Hell does not exist as a place or concept, that modern arguments or perspectives on Hell are simply misinterpretations in general. Similar patterns of thought also exist for Heaven. Some believe in a temporary Heaven, an eternal one, symbolic of good human relationships on earth, or that it is also a misinterpretation. Similar patterns of thought exist for causes of entry, either to Heaven or Hell, assuming that one accepts an afterlife as a concept. Some will argue that actions can be good, while others argue that only God is good. Some do not accept the concept of good in general. Some believe that salvation comes from an expression of repentance and submission, or that faith is much more complex. Thus, some believe that faith is largely semantic, particularly protestants, while Catholics tend to accept a more episodic experience of faith. Buddhism, in contrast, especially Zen traditions, will sometimes have a more procedural (or skill-based) understanding of religiosity. In summary, Western perspectives on Hell, Heaven, goodness, and salvation are quite diverse; however, due to church conflicts with modernism, many Protestant churches today focus on a more "literal" and absolute-truth perspective on the Bible.
Absolutely right fskate2, all I can hope to do in these videos is to give an introduction to the topics. There is way too much to get into, indeed any of the subjects you raised (heaven, hell, the afterlife, God, good, evil, faith, etc.) would require whole graduate level seminars and more ... 🙂
Dear Doug: this question is slightly off topic but I discovered that in 1914 the French classical composer Lili Boulanger composed choral orchestral piece called Old Buddhist Prayer or "Vieille prière bouddhique". I haven't been able to ascertain the specific source of her text and was wondering if you recognized it. I did watch your video and I don't have the definite answer but I like looking at the self-deterministic aspects. Below is the text set to music by Lili Boulanger:
Que toute chose qui respire
-- que toutes les créatures et partout,
tous les esprits et tous ceux qui sont nés,
que toutes les femmes, que tous les hommes,
les Aryens, et les non-Aryens,
tous les dieux et tous les humains
et ceux qui sont déchus,
en orient et en Occident, au Nord et au Sud,
que tous les êtres qui existent --
sans ennemis, sans obstacles, surmontant la douleur
et atteignant le bonheur, puisse se mouvoir librement,
chacun dans la voie qui lui est destinée.
English - Google Translate
That everything that breathes
- that all creatures and everywhere,
all minds and all who are born,
that all women, all men,
the Aryans, and the non-Aryans,
all the gods and all the humans
and those who are fallen,
in East and West, North and South,
that all beings that exist -
without enemies, without obstacles, overcoming pain
and reaching happiness, can move freely,
each one in the way destined for him.
Hi Lee and thanks for the question. I'm not entirely sure where that comes from, perhaps someone else can recognize it, but it does bear some resemblance to the famous Mettā (lovingkindness) Sutta of the Suttanipāta. It *could* be a sort of free revision of that work. Here is one translation of the Mettā Sutta: suttacentral.net/en/snp1.8
Doug's Secular Dharma Thanks, that’s actually a big help. I see the similarity in the middle section.
Great Lee, glad I could help. Lili Boulanger's text is very pretty!
Doug thank you for the teaching The Buddha if i remember right said to fully understand karma one must be a full Buddha since my early life i have been studding Karma when i began to consciously practice good things it seemed my life mellowed out still eruptions of what we might call negative Karma still emerge this is referred to as Parabda Karma or Karma from my past so i continue to apply intention like being awake when i drive a nail otherwise i end up with a very sore thumb or remembering to brush my teeth in the morning other wise I'll have cavities. the thing about Karma is it may not involve the same person that you shot but you may be shot by some totally different person. Pretty wild stuff.
Thanks Frank, yes even for the Buddha understanding karma was pretty hairy business. 🙂
Great video. Thank you 🙏
My pleasure Jean-Michel! 🙏
Doug have you,or can you talk about Buddha Nature? Thank you .keep up the good work.
I have mentioned Buddha nature in a few of my videos though I've never done a video specifically about it.
Intentional actions creats Karma. This Karma manifest itself in two ways. First as habit. What we repeatedly do is who we become. It then takes effort to change habits. Then there are individual big decisions, these also make us who we are, not through habit, these big actions shape our personality. We are the choices we make. You cannot change your personality or habits over night, it takes hard work, this is us working off the bad karma we created.
Yes, that's a great way to think of karma, Frank. Thanks!
I think they were talking about a time when everyone did ritual actions. If we don’t do rituals, that would eliminate karma entirely.
Hi Doug! I was wondering if you thought 'Karma' or in reality 'cause and effect' was a component of 'Dependent co-arising'? This is because that is. That is because this is. And also what your thoughts on 'the ripple effect' are. I am of the belief that we can have quite an effect on the lives of people we come into contact with and from there radiating outward. In either a positive or negative fashion.
Hi Patrick, yes indeed. Our effect on others can ripple outwards, so being positive to one person can have positive effects on many, and the same for the negative. Good to keep in mind as we go about our day!
Thanks again for your generous work. In general I find the Buddhist perspective logically consistent. There are claims that become difficult, shall we say to verify. However, doing what the Buddha asks us to do, I.e. Test his claims has, for this one, produced surprisingly simple supported conclusions. Life is indeed impermanent, full of suffering for example. The claims made that are recognised as true give me cause or faith to continue testing more claims.
Currently I am meditating on this question of Karma and merit. Perhaps you can help me with it?
I perceive the reality of the secular cause and effect of Karma. Therefore, my questioning IS more upon the traditional viewpoint. In the spirit of; if the claims, in this context, are so far true is there a way to observe the truth or validity of the more traditional claims? Again within the context of Karma.
If Karma is present through lifetimes, are we able to observe it? Putting the subjective recognition of one's own previous lifetimes and karma to the side for now. I am pondering the karma that is produced by the amplification of modern technology.
For example, Doug pre TH-cam helping others to understand the Dharma vs Current Doug amplifying that merit through your channel now. Or a Bodhisattva in a village of 1000 people 1000 years ago vs a Bodhisattva on TH-cam reaching 2 million people.
In both cases, assuming TH-cam lasts down the ages. That same individual's cause and effect must be multiplied by a factor of X. Depending on many unknown variables.
Even before the Internet there was telivison and radio. What becomes of the cause and consequence, karma, of all the famous people that brought comfort and laughter to millions of people?
Should we not be able to observe the effects of such radical amplification in the world? Especially from Bodhisattva merit? Perhaps the acceleration of Cancer curing medicine, a decline of violence, greed and corruption? Or in some other way I've yet to perceive?
I don't know about that FPP, in general the Buddhist outlook on the world is that it is samsara: it cycles through good times and bad, through creation and destruction. So there isn't an idea of growing good karma leading to some ideal end of time. Indeed, though there is good karma in the world, there is also bad karma. There are people doing good things, and people doing bad things. It all gets amplified and also diluted through time.
I always felt there is a connection between Karma & Samskara, we have free will but we're predisposed to follow habits we've practiced over who knows how many lifetimes.
Thoughts please?
🙏
Yes, there is a link there. Traditionally our volitional tendencies are understood to have been lain down by past karma. And within this lifetime, our past habits cause future tendencies as well.
Thank you for taking the time, Doug.❤️
I also really enjoyed your video on secular Buddhism's roots in Thai Buddhism where i went to study it, animism & traditional herbs. The most fascinating ten years of my life.
Keep up your good work, my friend in dhamma🙏
Also, i never knew that kamma meant intention to the Buddha!
I like that this overlaps with the good Samaritan law...as a kid, i always thought that was the right way and that the cliche'the road to hell is paved with good intentions is one of the most widely believed spiritual untruths out there.
Hi Doug. The Buddha said that the saṃsāra is beginningless (anamatagga), that is to say: there isn't a beginning point of living beings transmigrating. But contemporary cosmology informs us that the life in the universe insn't always existed, consequently there must be a starting point of livings transmigrating. Furthermore, kamma - as we know - is intentional action: it corresponds to cetanā, the intention behind or before the material action. But, again, if the life isn't always existed in the universe, so we must conclude that also rebirth determined by kamma not existing from always: it exists from the moment of arising of life and, more in particular, from the moment of arising of living beings with faculty of will. What do you think?
Well as a secular practitioner I leave such questions to one side as being speculative. That said, a traditional Buddhist would probably say there were other universes as well.
@@DougsDharma Thank you for the answer. The idea of a multiplicity of universes is clearly stated in the Pali Canon or in later Pali works (such as the Visuddhimagga)? But even accepting this idea, the problem continues to be, because in each universe, singly considered, the rebirth would arising only when life reaches a level of complexity that allows intentional actions. Not to mention how consciousness could pass from one universe to another.
I’m new to the path of Buddhism but I’m really struggling with this notion of karma and reincarnation which seems to be full problems if you think about it.
For example:
How can a worm hope to climb out of the animal realms when it lacks the capacity to think as we do and shed it’s bad karma? Is it’s fate to be eaten by a bird and reborn again? In which case is it as another worm? If so then why reincarnate as a worm in the first place?
Who decides the first incarnation? If it is perfect to start why is there a need to reincarnate?
Are all animals previously humans/ hungry ghosts etc? Or are some of them simply created by God with neutral karma ? If their karma is neutral will they continue to manifest as the same animal for infinity?
Even if you ignore these issues and say “well that’s doesn’t matter because you can just concern yourself with consequences in there here and now and hope for the best after you die” this does not provide the strong drive to do good and reject evil that’s seen in other faiths like Islam.
I would love some insight into these issues🙏🏾
I have a playlist on elements of karma that might interest you: th-cam.com/play/PL0akoU_OszRgwcF_eKqxg8ok0w_dz2sj_.html . That said, as a secular practitioner I leave aside the more speculative aspects of karma, particularly those having to do with rebirth.
Just to be clear, in traditional Buddhism there is no creator God, and there is no "first incarnation". Rebirth is said to go back into the indefinite past, and may potentially be infinite. Karma will not as a matter of course remain exactly the same through time, since vicissitudes of action and intention will change future births. And since traditionalists accept heaven and hell realms there is a similar incentive to do good and reject evil as in theistic faith systems.
WHAT IS KARMALIC, IS THE WAY BALANCING THE UNIVESE, FOR THE DIMENSION OF THE LIVE ITENTITY ?
yeah it is, we have gross level body - physical body and our subtle level body - our unconscious mind where karma and trauma gets stored
Thank you Doug.
Say a farmer cuts worms trying to make ground for his farm. His intention is to produce food, but not to harm worms.
"Farmer does know that worms are going to be harmed. But he does not intend to."
"I wash hands with soap before serving food, having the intention to clean them, and I know bacteria are going to be harmed. But I do not intend to harm bacteria, just to clean my hands"
How can we make sense of these statements? Do you you think there is a fruition for these karma?
Personally I think there will be some 'degree of fruition' of these actions, but not strong as a willful harm.
One prominent example is the case of Angulimala. His intention was just to obey his teacher, but I cannot think that he did not know of harming lives of people by doing that.
If I am correct, he became Arahant within the same life-time despite committing many killings.
However he still got stricken by stones etc,. which would amount to a minor fruition compared to other circumstances.
Your guess is as good as mine Value. 🙏
Thank you!.
Hello again Doug. Q. Being born in a miserable shack or being born in a generous castle has to do with the individual's own past lives bad or good intentional actions?
Well, it's complicated, as I say in the video. Traditionally one's situation of birth *can* be a result of bad karma in prior lifetimes, though it isn't necessarily. My own sense is that prior-lifetime karma is not a skillful idea in this regard, and probably should be considered at the very least speculative.
@@DougsDharma ..
Well, to me it should be FAIR to say that one's own condition is the result of one's own actions and nothing else. Though it's comfortable to attribute it to other causes like "luck, fate, ramdomty, etc" from FEAR to accept the fact of totally being responsible for one's own condition. Thank you again for your kind attention.
I cannot speak for another but though I mean well, my intentions are purely selfish. In that I donate to charitable organizations, on reflection I understand it was to make me feel better about not being selfish and therefore selfish in original intent.
Make sense?
Sure it makes sense, Michael. I think that's how most of us operate most of the time. But I think we can be aware that there is good in donating to worthy causes even if those donations aren't always done with the best of intentions. That is, we have to be charitable to ourselves as well as others, and work towards a better future.
Its great to have good intentions, and indeed wise to be that way. But many beautiful people only have love in their hearts, do good, are kind and wise - yet suffer the most appalling abuse in this world. Unless there is indeed some kind of "ledger" as you say, but I don't really believe in that. Also, say you are angry and you say in your heart "I could kill that person!", and your intention is true at that point. Of course you don't kill anyone, because you have calmed down - and your rational brain has kicked in. Is that intention scrubbed out, because it led no where?
Great video Doug, provokes many thoughts.
Thanks VM! As to good people having to suffer, one can only do what one can do in treating people well. There are no guarantees in my mind though.
Intentions not acted upon are still intentions, but if we strive to denourish them over time, they can become less powerful and hence less likely to lead to mischief. At least that's the Buddha's view of it.
I agree with you my friend. I don't like the fatalistic approach because it is devoid of any benefit, at least to me. If I have allergies in this lifetime, it doesn't mean I did something to justify it in a previous life. And if that's the case, I have absolutely no way of knowing that then it doesn't matter. That is why the Buddha said only arahants should contemplate kamma. In addition I don't believe kamma to be a physical phenomenon, but rather a mental one. Our responses to external, worldly things.
Yes, karma/kamma can be also seen as a mental rather than a physical phenomenon.
Hi Doug, I was wondering if Punya Kamma (Good Karma)can cancel or degrade some of our papa Kamma (negative karma)
I think it might depend on the case. What do you think?
Some new age doctrines say this life is for learning. If I steal from my workplace and my boss steals from me, and I interpret my misfortune as payback for my theft, I have learned something.
But if a child is born handicapped what have they learned? They can't remember their past life.
I do find it best to just view karma in terms of this lifetime, but if you wish to view it outside that scope, I would hightly advise considering string theory.
Yes I do think it's best seen as something that acts imperfectly within a single life.
@@DougsDharma Why I mention string theory is because it provides an interesting view of all things being interconnected, even in multiple dimensions. Considering it in the secular view, it is a way to picture how were are all dependent upon each other. You could think of the strings as Karma. That being said, I doubt it is correct view, but rather a way to picture Karma.
holding bad intentions in it self is suffering. so the effect of bad karma is your own suffering.
Yes that's right Araanor. I did a video on a related topic recently: th-cam.com/video/O3D-NosYAP8/w-d-xo.html
Think of Karma as the law of causing and effect.
The law of cause and effect in the real world does not need to be complicated. We do a skillful action with mindful intent can create positive results. Unskillful actions can bring negative results.
every action we do in this life has has consequences, those actions become a part of our reality. All the actions combine to create reality. Past actions can effect the present, that is why we plan for the future. We make actions to meet with possible future situations. Actions made by others create our current karma, thus effect our reality
Just a my thoughts
Yes I think that's a good way to look at it Derrick. It's all about consequences.
I suppose in confession practice there is 3 type of karma - body, speech and mind, which
the mind is formless hence have no boundary, the karma of the mind is the heaviest of the three.
Unintentional actions would have physical limits if you consider the domino effect stacked upon the butterfly effect
an action can only causes limited numbers of repercussions.
However mindful action can create imprints which would led to a person being more familiar with something.
Hence the tendency for a "karmic imprint" or "karmic signature" (Personality) to exists and the
"karmic inertia" of said actions collectively generating a sense of familiarity and proficiency at doing something.
Basically it is inputting data into a person's five aggregates, which architects the construct of "self"
with the data collected as a mind is trying to justify itself of existence,
This "karmic inertia" is very much related with the "power of training"
It can be positive or negative given how one practices,
if a person is used to generosity then it is easy for one to keep on the practice
and not be troubled by greed and stinginess, which mental affliction can be quite bad.
the action of generosity can led to peers being influenced and joining the crowd (collective karma of charity)
If a person is used to killing, then it is easy for a person to keep killing more and not feel remorseful,
it would be harder to generate compassion while killing is taken as a easy thing.
the action of killing also led to people thinking killing is a normal and socially acceptable behavior,
and comfort in peers doing the same actions (collective karma of killing)
The karmic imprint/ karmic signature seems to be tuning towards the six realm of rebirths.
Meaning the collective outcome of the imprint will steer a sentient beings towards a certain realm.
But in real life when we are excessively attached to such actions and emotions we can experience the feeling of lower realms.
These are usually the emotions related to the action,
hence a mindful action actually fuels the emotions and strengthen the imprint.
and it seems the harm caused upon oneself is not that insignificant.
Killing - Hatred - Hell Realm (burnt by fire of anger) [harmful to Liver]
Stealing - Greed - Hungry Ghost Realm (excessive craving, constant unsatisfactory) [harmful to Heart]
Wrongful Sex - Ignorance - Animal Realm (seeking pleasure without exhibition of wisdom) [harmful to Kidney]
Thanks for your thoughts Jay!
Algo asks me to watch this 5 year old video. Hey Algo. Namasate.
Good algo!
Is there a perfect karmic return in buddhism....what i understood was there are 5 resons and karma is just one of them....and things we experience are a result of not only that 5 reasons but a result of different karmic actions as well...the famous salt example is a good example .. Bit of salt mixed in to a cup of water makes it salt but the same amount mixed in say a pool have no affect at all....so a result of a single karmic action couldbe diluted by other karmic actions and by other reasons ...so buddhist karma is not a perfect justice systems nor a fatalist idea...we have some control over it.
Hi Billy, the Buddha does say that not everything we experience is due to karma, and that we can dilute bad karma with good intentions and actions. But he also says that rebirth is due to our karmic baggage. As a secular believer I set those claims aside, but he does make them. 🙂
@@DougsDharma correct me if i'm wrong, the relation with karma and rebirth is where the final thought be comes the reason or the cause which determines state of the next new thought stream give rise to... other than that does it says that rebirth occur mainly as a result of only karma?
To my knowledge it is never spelled out in the early texts that rebirth is due to the final thought of the prior lifetime. I think this comes from the abhidhamma. However the Buddha does talk about people being reborn on numerous occasions, and it’s exclusively due to their karmic baggage. For the Buddha, karma (kamma) would inevitably fruit unless one became awakened and thus escaped samsara.
@@DougsDharma if one is not attained arahat status, the last thought need to give rise to a resulting thought right..isn't that all that is to buddhas idea of a rebirth that there is bound to have a state("bavaya") created(based on dependent origination)in somewhere in the universe to give rise to that resulting thought and eventually start a new stream of conscious thoughts ..if u define karma is the causal flow of thoughts then i guess then it makes sense to say rebirth is due to karma...
Yes, intentions due to clinging are karmic. 🙂
Somehow it doesn't seem fair or even make sense that certain people were born into good families and some into bad. Some are born with more privileges and some extremely poor. Some are born with good genes and some with mental and/or physical deficiencies. Some have good lucks and some have bad. What determines one's fate? Certainly one is ultimately responsible for one's own fate. However, new borns don't have that kind of ability. So exactly what makes a new born the way he/she/it is? Without Karma, this is a million $ question to me.
At the least, the concept of Karma says that every living being has endless opportunities to redeem oneself. Likewise, every living being has endless opptunities to go astray. Nothing is permanent and everything is ever changing, so is one's karma. One's own fate is in one's very own hands. it seems to me nothing can explain such phenomenon better than karma including reincarnation.
Yes, if we're looking for perfect justice, such that everything is fair, then karma and rebirth are the way to go. But if the universe isn't necessarily just or fair, then we can simply fall back onto explaining injustice through historical causes and conditions. That still leaves endless opportunities open to us in the future for making things better.
In the many religious Buddhist traditions, it seems to me that the ideology of Kamma-vipaka is a Just World theory, with all the ethical problems it brings. It's between the stuff that made me leave Theravada Buddhism.
karma is not set-up it's just the way things are.
Right, it's not the product of some deity, it's a kind of natural law basically.
The best bit about karma is there isn't any.
yeah there is but not in the pseudoscientific state. You beat your meat and you will feel like battery acid for a week; this is karma.
I think Buddhas discussion of karma made sense when he disagreed with Vedic brahminism. But now, saying it’s intention makes not much impact, I mean we are destroying the planet.I could say not intentional but, I have been complicit
Right, I think there are honest mistakes we make, but eventually it becomes a matter of deluding ourselves, which is not right intention.
People can do great harm with good intentions
Thanks for the point, Marcos, you’re absolutely right. But at the very least we can start off on the right foot by having good intentions rather than bad. There is a separate issue having to do let’s say with ignorance or negligence, where the good intention is thwarted by our not knowing how to carry out the good intention properly. But whatever our intention and our knowledge the world may well get in our way.
winds of karma
The notion of rebirth for perfect justice seems nice, until you realize how it has been used to justify the suffering of the poor as punishment for past lifes.
Yes it certainly can and has been misused in that way.
I don't think karma was meant to be just in buddhism.
Certainly, so far as I know it's part of all Indian religions.
@@DougsDharma I certainly don't have as much knowledg of the Pali Canon as you do, I'm not denying there's karma in buddhism. But karma is not fair. People in this life suffer from mistakes they made in other live due to confusion that lead them to cultivate unskillefull minds. They don't even remember their mistakes. The whole karmic cycle is full of suffering. The problem of the existence of suffering and unfairness of karma is the main argument against a benevolent all powerfull God in Buddhism.
@@SrValeriolete For sure!
Another example of willful ignorance; when the Buddha told disciples they can eat meat if they didn’t suspect the animal was killed for them. Yeah I never suspected
I think the Western use of the word is too woo-woo and frankly unsound for me (that is, the notion that if you do good, good will come to you, etc.; there are plenty of people for whom that isn't the case). On the other hand, I don't use/buy into the Eastern notion, mostly because I don't believe in rebirth. I do think that notion of karma is more interesting, though.
There's cause and effect in the physical world which we can't avoid. Karma on an esoteric level is a mental construct based on preconceived notions, and is one of the first things to go when one becomes enlightened or awake. In Tibetan Buddhism, this is emphasized in The Liberation through the bardo thodol :)
Thanks J Norfleet! 🙏