What's the Difference between Historical European and Chinese Martial Arts? 欧洲武术vs中国武术
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2021
- In this video I discuss the differences between practicing Historical European Martial Arts (HEMA) and "Historical Chinese Martial Arts" or traditional Chinese martial arts. How should we approach practicing weapon's based martial arts, especially when those weapons, like swords, are outdated.
Source Material:
Image and Video:
HEMA Manuscript (I.33) = talhoffer.wordpress.com/2017/...
HEMA footage = • Unlocking I.33 - The T...
Bruce Lee footage = • Video
Kung Fu Weapons = / 344666177715444935
Wushu Performance = twg2022.com/sports/wushu/
I think HEMA has been very slow at taking advantage of the living martial arts of Europe, such as Jogo do Pao (portuguese stickfighting). I had the honor of learning briefly from a Jogo do Pao master, and he had amazing insights that most HEMAists simply lack.
The sad thing about CMA is how much potential it has but it is wasted. We have rich, diverse, systems of weaponry, but 99% of the CMA students just do forms with flabby weapons, and would get their ass kicked by HEMA guys, even though CMA is a "living" tradition and HEMA is a "ressurrected" one.
3:20
Great video. There seem to be fewer old historical Asian martial arts manuals. This is one reason I like Jack Chen’s Chinese Longsword - Ancient Martial Arts Manuals project. It would be cool to have a bibliography of English translations of historical Asian martial arts manuals.
Having a living tradition is a double edged sword, outside of trying to figure out the "truthfulness" of the claims of age and use of the forms, you have the potential baggage of many traditional arts not always being keen on ideas like sparring or even sharing their art fully. And this isn't just CMA, arguable you see that more in the Japanese arts which also has living lineages and manuals as well.
Thoughtful and thought-provoking stuff as usual. Having done a variety of Eastern and Western martial arts, the latter mainly some boxing and HEMA, I think that it is useful to critically compare in terms of fundamental movement principles, as in George Silver, and experientially, inasmuch as this is realistically possible.
Can't wait for Shad to make an hour long reply video to this one.......
Living traditions are a ‘double edged sword’(cough*) from a historical perspective, as they tend to change and evolve with the times. In my case I practice the Chen style taijiquan sword form, which has supposedly been passed down for ‘hundreds of years’ in the Chen village, yet my teacher can’t be certain what the applications of the movements are, or which ones are the more historical moves and which ones are more recent additions or changes. That becomes a hindrance as much as an aid to someone like me who is interested in the historical aspect of what I am learning.
Great video, instructor of HEMA, specifically Bolognese system and student of Taiwan system Baji Quan here. To me, I think a problem with living tradition in HCMA is that ppl sometimes just try to apply their style’s understanding and be quite dogmatic in some ways which happened to me quite a few times
Another great video!
Good topic. I’m a HEMA practitioner and I’d like to try same approach with Chinese weapons
Why am I only discovering this now?
A good analysis. I personally have experience in both fields. I have a nylon European great sword that I've been practicing with for 2 years, and i more recently purchased a nylon two-handed Ming-style Jian that I just started using. Both I got from Purple Heart Armory
Definitely having access to oral history is an advantage more common in my T & H CMA practice then my HEMA practice so I agree in general but I think there are a few more arts with living lineage then just those... savate and La Cain come to mind plus it's worth mentioning there is more then one style of wrestling with independent lineage.
The approach you described in HCMA is similar to what they are doing with HAMA (historical african martial arts). Using living traditions as a source for critical analysis.
Might also be worth pointing out that the military application of sword based martial arts lasted well into the 20th century with China employing units of swordsmen during WW2. Whereas in other parts of the world martial arts had turned more into performance or pastime, in China out of necessity there was still a military component to it. The recent border clashes with India saw some pu dao being deployed... in 2020.
I’m really first
I have done hema for a long time and I am always extremely disappointed when I see a hema purist talk down on other traditions.
Well HEMA isn't limited to the sources. Everbody can make what he wants, the sources are just one pillar. I.E when I go to olympic fencing I learn a lot from a living european tradition and my longsword fencing will become much better (I am talking about things like speed, and precision and general fitness training. I am aware, that the footwork is a little bit different)
How old are the chinese living traditions actually? Have the living traditions been documented?