To be fair. He has to be directing his face/eyeline at the target, it wouldn't just be where his eyes are looking. (Plus since the beam is quite powerful I wouldn't be surprised if it's hard to control even with the visor)
His beams aren't instantaneous, because he didn't shoot lasers. What's actually happening is his eyes are portals to a dimension of pure force, and he's shooting force beams, which are presumably slower than light... You know what, nevermind. I'm taking about force lasers from the punch dimension. Science does not apply. Plot armor is a fine excuse.
Here's some extra Progenitor Mimic craziness with mutate: Obviously, the copies created by Progenitor Mimic are tokens, so they can't create more copies of their own. HOWEVER... if you mutate something on top of that copy, the copy's ability will now belong to that creature card. It's no longer a token creature, so it can start producing its own copies now.
Best part of this episode was the clear walkthrough of how Mutate works. Forgot to mention one thing (or I missed it) - when a commander is anywhere on the stack of mutate, the card remains a commander even if it's not on top. Great episode, gents. Well done.
@20Nevan Yarrow if you try to look up lore for otrimi, theres a clip that viven remarks as them having similarities, no wonder brokkos looks so grumpy! XD
jimmy: "should we talk about how mutate works?" josh:"eeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......... just the short version" 2 hours later... "now onto the deck!"
Definitely surprised they didn’t recommend Sea-Dasher Octopus from the Ikoria main set. Cheap mutate cost that gives you card draw, and at instant speed as well. Definitely one I’ll be using. Great video guys, gave me some great ideas.
i find it odd how often they don't know the history of cards. they did the same thing with moonlight bargain when it was reprinted in C18. thinking it was an original print.
It doesn't, actually. Mutating overrides Power and Toughness of any creature that's not on top. Pack Rat's text isn't an override effect, it's defining what it is in the first place. See: Quicksilver Gargantuan.
@@snakeman830 Check the release notes, they specifically identify this case as overwriting the P/T of the topmost object. With Pack Rat, unless its the topmost creature, it is potentially going to die if you mutate it and control no other rats.
@@misterdoctor9693 As they mentioned in the video actually means has so when it comes to p/t changing it is still effected because its ability really means "This creature's power and toughness is equal to the number of rats" the stars one the card have no gameplay effect in the rules of magic, they are stars to make it simple for us to understand, even if pack rat had 20/20 written in the p/t box the card wouldn't really be different, it would just be more confusing
You are correct. Pack Rat was a terrible example. I'm guessing neither Josh or Jimmy knew how the rules worked for characteristic-defining abilities at the time of making this video. Definitively do not add Pack Rats to your mutating deck!
Fun fact: if you go to the official wotc website there is a page there with "vivien field notes" and the entry on Otrimi says he might be a youngling of Brokkos species. So like, flavor 100. Also great vid!
43:16 I really like Progenitor Mimic in a clone deck because what you guys forgot to mention is that if you mutate ontop one of the token copies it is no longer a toke, so it will also copy itself each turn
Regarding the confusion of commander tax, Yuriko and Derevi says Put this creature while mutate is cast this as mutate so Commander Tax apply to otrimi's mutate cost since your casting it.
55:15 wait a minute, why does Jimmy say that Utami can "always come back for the same price over and over again"? Mutate is an alternate cost, not an ability like Yuriko's or Derevi's. This means you HAVE to pay the commander tax every time you Mutate it. I hope this was just a slip of the tongue and not something on which they based the whole deck around. They do talk about a turn 4 Utami mutaded, but I didn't catch any other mention of mutating it a second time.
You are doing the right thing mutate is bad I mean seriously most mutate effects forces you to focus all your cards on 1 easily killable creature and are overpriced version of other cards cause you dont bestow a creature you basically replace an already existing creature
A good recommendation I saw on another channel (nitpicking nerd if you are interested in watching them) is Infinite reflection. This can get insanely broken if you don't have a legendary on top of your mutated creature. I'm also going to experiment with the myriad creatures. The blue one is probably the best as she as a lower cmc and allows you to draw a card, but I feel this can get spicy in my casual playgroup. Edit : Unless I'm mistaken, if you mutate on a creature with +1/+1 counter, you keep the counters which is why there's so many hydra in the deck as they boost Otrimi. I do agree it's a lot slower tho due to the high cmc
I think Brokkos is the better Commander, adding cheap undestructible and unblockable creatures for Commander damage. Some suggestions for further budget upgrades: "Elusive Tormentor // Insidiuos Mist" A 6/6 Commander with Hexproof, undestructible and unblockable is rediculous "Mythos of Brokkos" is a four mana tutor for permanents "Sea-Dasher octopus" was also missing i think. Thank you very much for your content. You are by far one of the greatest YT- Channels.
Small rules thing that y'all probably didn't even know when you made this video, but worth mentioning for people doing these upgrades: at 42:10 Jimmy says that the [*]/[*] in Pack Rat's cost won't matter if you mutate a big thing onto it. Unfortunately, according to the release notes for the set, that's not true. The power and toughness defining ability will override whatever power and toughness are on top. From the article: "If a merged permanent has characteristic-defining abilities, they overwrite the characteristics from the topmost object. For example, if a merged creature has an ability that defines a * in its power or toughness, such as that of Boneyard Mycodrax, that ability overwrites the power and toughness defined by the topmost object of the merged creature." reference: magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/ikoria-lair-behemoths-and-commander-2020-edition-release-notes-2020-04-10
@@elephantbat but it does do something funny atleast with devotion gods if the top card is not the god and the devotion is not met. It becomes a card without a type and so cant be removed
@@victorbourguignon6897 WHOA! That's SIIICK!!! I think Vindicate or Anguished Unmaking could still hit it even if it's a typeless permanent..... right?
@@elephantbat true... since its an over arching category, but otherwise nothing that targets or globaly wraths with mention to a specific type cant affect it.
My favorite interaction is with etrata the silencer. If she exiles a mutate pile she instantly causes the owner of that pile to lose the game as long as there are 3 or more creatures in that pile lol
Amazing card for this deck is Elusive Tormentor. Its a vampire that flips for 1 colorless and discard a card. It becomes Indestructible, Hexproof, Unblockable and its only down side is it cant block.
1. I love the primary commanders artwork 2. Thanks so much for the review and help with making the deck better 3. I really can't wait to get this deck a play against people
Aaaargh! Was hoping for your take on the Bant / Kithril deck 😔. Never mind....this is just as awesome! I can't believe I've only just started Commander! The years I've wasted. Love the content guys.
I’m surprised that Jarad didn’t make it into kathrill. She(he? I dunno) gets arbitrarily massive if you put Zetalpa and Akroma into the bin with buried alive, so you can’t swing in with double strike, kill them, and then sacrifice her to kill the other 2 or at least deal a lot of damage in response to a board wipe
Great videos, this whole week I was waiting excited for the next precon deck upgrade guide. Your videos will help me choose which decks to buy so I can start playing EDH for the first time, keep up the great work!
I like that they included a minor hydra sub theme because hydras are excellent mutate targets. They keep the +1/+1 counters so if you make a 5/5 hydra and then mutate Otrimi onto him he's 11/11, and can two-shot people. Probably not worth it to keep them all in and focus on hydras, but having a few good ones like Genesis Hydra is awesome.
Deck building is my favorite thing about Magic aside from the Gathering, and I can't wait to both play around with tuning each of these AND watching other people pull these new decks out so I can see what they are capable of. This deck in particular is the one I am most excited to see tuned
The interactions with mutate have so much potential, the fact all the stuff comes back split into each creature with a blink effect or something is huge, and if someone oblivion rings your big mutated boi and that ends up being removed (not hard with green/blue) you suddenly can go wide with it all, plus any etb effects mixed in there. Also gonna make a lot of people hesitate to pull any mass blink effects.... also if you want that to trigger that interaction yourself, it's way easier to blink your one creature than your whole board (again easy with blue here). Not to mention the interaction with undying...there's a lot here and that's just part of it. Gonna be a lot to pay attention to with this deck!
The mutate deck is actually the one I'm most excited to build around actually. New mechanics are fun. The Cycling deck looks strong, but also streamlined to a single direction. My playgroup is building mutate decks with Infect, Slivers, Voltron, Elves and one even came up with a combo version.
If i'm understanding the rule correctly, you cast Otrimi with mutate but you don't have to pay commander tax for the mutate cost, only if you were to hard cast him. This basically makes him immune to tax if you have another creature on the board.
@@madscientist2621 It's an alternative casting cost, not an activated ability like Derevi has. You would have to pay +2 per time casted while still using mutate. It cannot cheat the tax, unless they do something that goes against how the rules have worked for previous legendaries with alternative costs.
@@howlinglotus see, I have never played with a commander with an alternative casting cost and I'm new to commander. Thanks for the update. It makes mutate slightly less powerful.
@@madscientist2621 I think the way Jimmy talked about it was misleading, so I can see where you were coming from 100%. It seemed like a mixture of wrong information and talking about a few things at once. The only commanders I know that get around tax like that are Derevi and Yumiko.
good thing I ordered a Cephalid constable before this video was published : also, I've always been trying to find a place for my chilling apparition, but if you're not interested in the discard I would honestly recommend mischievous poltergeist instead
One thing about hungering hydra- any amount of counters you invest in it will transfer to the creature you mutate it onto, making otrimi an 8/8 haste on turn four.
yo Progenitor Mimic is one of my favorite cards of all time. Back when I was in high school, a friend really wanted to get me into the game as more than just a super casual, so he gave me a few cards to power up my filthy casual deck, and that was one of them. It was pretty much new at the time, and I loved it. Copied my Beguiler of Wills, and stole everything. It was bonkers.
I would say that auspicious starix is is one of the best cards in the deck since it brings so much card advantage and there are many creatures so it's unlikely to whiff. Another good card to add is sea dasher octopus,it's a 3 drop unlockable with when ever sea dashed octopus deals combat damage you draw a card.
@@jakeapplegate6642 well you could probably get the precon for 40$ and zaxara costs 16$ and you got some nice extras so I think it's better to get the precon for the black spell propaganda and other stuff
Another important rule to note is 712.4d. When dealing with a mutated commander, mutate behaves like meld for zone changes so don't worry if you decide to zone the commander because the other creatures in the mutation won't follow it: "If multiple replacement effects could be applied to the event of a melded permanent leaving the battlefield or being put into the new zone, applying one of those replacement effects to one of the two cards affects both cards. (If the melded permanent is a commander, it may be exempt from this rule; see rule 903.9a.)"
I built an Energy Commander deck with Hope of Ghirapur as my commander. It went infinite with Ashnod's Altar, Gonti's Aether Heart, and the Modules. I will admit that I only pulled it off once, but it was pretty fun to play other times too.
31:58 all mutated cards on a creature will follow that creature wherever it goes. The only stipulation is if they are returned to the battlefield by delayed trigger, they are no longer mutated together. (Additional spells bringing back the main creature, will no longer effect all of them) An easy way of remembering how this part of mutate works.
Hey, do you know if someone exile my mutated pile with a white enchantement like there were so many recently. If I destroy the enchantment, does it come back separatly too?
With the commander if you choose to take it to the command zone, the whole stack goes to the command zone. But only the commander can be recast from there. The rest of the stuff from the stack is stuck on the command zone til end of game.
Here’s another Corner case. If you mutate a creature like Otrimi onto a Theros god like Kruphix, but you don’t have enough devotion what happens then? It’s only type is a creature but it’s effect says it’s not a creature.
Scute swarm is a great new card that will make this deck that much better! and also because of how creature heavy this deck is I think Vizier of the menagerie is a good card.
Quick rules thing, I'd like to point out mutating onto a */* creature overwrites the PT of the top creature since it is an ability, albeit one that defines a trait.
I never heard alot about putting bestow mechanic and adding it into the deck. ... I personally love the idea if switching tactics.... from tall to wide. With bestow you can board wipe easier.
Both of Pack Rat's abilities work whether you place it on the top or the bottom, which means it will have the same power/toughness either way and it can copy itself with all the mutated creatures attatched.
With the mutate thing, there will be so many possibilities for broken creatures! A deckbuilders dream, since there will probably be a lot of ways of how you can build a strong but still fun deck.
Missed something I think is absolutely amazing in Commander with this deck, and it’s actually rather recent and cheap: Repudiate/Replicate. You can either copy your big mutate creature or counter your opponents massive etb ability or artifact ability or planeswalker ultimate or any other ability you can think of. This card will usually be EXTREMELY helpful in most scenarios.
@@oracleofgames8590 I was thinking of Satyrs, which are non-human but red. Come to think of it... Aren't there a couple of heroic centaurs in green? Centaur Battlemaster?
Best build for this deck is going to be low to the ground Hexproof, Indestructible, and Unblockable. The removal vulnerability is the thing that will hold back the deck the most. Its the mana cost disparity of counter spells and card disadvantage issue in a different form. I think protecting investment vs capitalization on investment will give a stronger longevity in a game.
I love this channel! My playgroup always watches, and my friend Jason sends a text when a new episode is out. Thank you for your content and the laughs!
I don't know if I'm correct, but I believe since Mutate is an alternate casting cost and not an ability that commander tax would still stack, since it still counts as being cast. Still a great card, still ordered the deck, but based on the references I've seen as such with Fist of Suns and Ur-Dragon v.s. Yuriko, it is the difference in the ability placing a creature on the battlefield and casting it for a reduced or simply alternate cost.
My otrimi deck is gonna have acentcism however u spell that 😂 and a bunch of low cmc hexproof creatures very excited for this sultai stomp deck . 100 percent gonna fit in the new mutate cards when the set drops as well. Very excited for these precons !
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE... make a video of gameplay with the upgraded decks going head to head! It is amazing watching out of the box gameplay but I would love to see the upgraded decks gameplay!
What do you think of moving more towards Ukimmi voltron? You can mutate on top of Ukimmi to increase the power. I don't think there have to be too many edits in order to tool the precon into that idea.
Loved the X-Men bit. I'd like to point out that, on occasion, people have grabbed Cyclops and used him as a human laser cannon, and in particular I remember Magneto pulling the trick not long after being released from his infant form and being rescued from Dr. MacTaggert's lab by Eric the Red in one of the 70's Uncanny X-Men issues. Also, I think it's funny that the guy who kills things by looking at them got killed by the guy who kills things by talking to them.
Funny thing about Cyclops, it's not even a laser beam. It's actually pure kinetic energy from the punch dimension. Comics are so weird that Cyclops eyes are actually a portal to a different dimension.
mmm mutating over a stormsurge kraken. you still control your commander if it's on top, so you get +2/+2 and if they block it you draw 2 cards. Interesting combo. Oh, hexproof as well is a bonus! Obviously it's 5 mana, but i think the safety and utility effects along with the "beat'em up" encouragement is perfect for the deck. Not competitive, but still fun.
I think you should consider hexproof / indestructible creatures as a base for mutation: Paradise druid, gladecover scout, darksteel myr, slippery bogle, silhana ledgewalker and recently Toski. Predator ooze is also not bad.
There really needs to be a page in the stats overview showing the different stats in how many of the cards fall into multiple categories. For example, how many of the reprints in this deck from the ikoria set count towards the total number of mutate cards, how many of the removal or draw effects fall in with that category, etc.
Two honorable mentions in my opinion are both pemmins aura and freed from the real. Both are incredibly inexpensive enchantments that generate infinite colored mana with zaxara. Even without building around zax it's a no brainer to put 7$ into the deck for two infinite mana combos
@@GigaLordShinyMudkip1 Here's my current list. It's tuned for 2DH, but I've been thinking of upgrading it, especially with this new precon coming. aetherhub.com/Deck/Public/249916
@@GigaLordShinyMudkip1 I should also note that the original inspiration came from an early episode of Commander's Quarters: th-cam.com/video/ZLljaSAiypc/w-d-xo.html
“All he has to do is look at someone. Have you ever looked at someone and missed”
That... that’s actually a great point
Plot armour is the only real solution I can think of, but I'm not really an X-Men fan so what do I know
To be fair. He has to be directing his face/eyeline at the target, it wouldn't just be where his eyes are looking. (Plus since the beam is quite powerful I wouldn't be surprised if it's hard to control even with the visor)
His beams aren't instantaneous, because he didn't shoot lasers. What's actually happening is his eyes are portals to a dimension of pure force, and he's shooting force beams, which are presumably slower than light...
You know what, nevermind. I'm taking about force lasers from the punch dimension. Science does not apply. Plot armor is a fine excuse.
So I looked it up. Apparently they don't go where he's looking, they go straight out of his face, which means he has to aim his head not his eyes.
Light beams shooting out your face, you wont be able to see
Here's some extra Progenitor Mimic craziness with mutate:
Obviously, the copies created by Progenitor Mimic are tokens, so they can't create more copies of their own. HOWEVER... if you mutate something on top of that copy, the copy's ability will now belong to that creature card. It's no longer a token creature, so it can start producing its own copies now.
Of course, I just cast clones copying progenitor mimic, but this is hilarious too
Hory shit
*the otarian College of value wants to know your location*
This is better then Jake and joel channel because they got giant heads on a eighty inch tv unlike Josh n jimmy Wang wong
Then bounce original Progenitor mimic and do this all over again.
19:21 Remember, mutate does not help you to cheat commander tax like Derevi. It's an alternative casting cost but you are still casting it.
Yeah, they kept saying that it did, but pretty sure it doesn't!
Came here to say the same thing
How have they not figured this out by now? There's so many commanders with alternate costs that work this way.
They released the notes today and indeed additional costs still apply
They never said a thing about commander tax. They like the alternate casting cost because it’s a 6/6 trample on turn 4, which is really good value.
Best part of this episode was the clear walkthrough of how Mutate works. Forgot to mention one thing (or I missed it) - when a commander is anywhere on the stack of mutate, the card remains a commander even if it's not on top.
Great episode, gents. Well done.
I love Otrimi's artwork because he's playing hide and seek with a frog-before eating it. He's literally playing with his food.
It gives off toothless vibes, imma take it
@20Nevan Yarrow if you try to look up lore for otrimi, theres a clip that viven remarks as them having similarities, no wonder brokkos looks so grumpy! XD
@20Nevan Yarrow np!
Mutate with flicker effects, also known as the "Suddenly going wide" board.
😂
Mutate: *exists*
Slippery boggle (& other hexproofers): *My time has come*
You still would do better removing the mutates and play hydras
AWAKEN MY MASTERS AY AY AY....
one word : INFECT!
jimmy: "should we talk about how mutate works?"
josh:"eeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......... just the short version"
2 hours later... "now onto the deck!"
Definitely surprised they didn’t recommend Sea-Dasher Octopus from the Ikoria main set. Cheap mutate cost that gives you card draw, and at instant speed as well. Definitely one I’ll be using. Great video guys, gave me some great ideas.
Jimmy, Silent Arbiter is originally from Fith Dawn, the last set of the og Mirrodin block, not Conspiracy ^^"
Happy to see that some et else catch that!
i find it odd how often they don't know the history of cards. they did the same thing with moonlight bargain when it was reprinted in C18. thinking it was an original print.
They just aren't that old.
@@igniteaxiom I think it's cuz they didn't start to play until much later.
@Sebastian Baumruker Same thing here
Pack Rat's first ability is a characteristics defining effect, it'll override any P/T that you Mutate on top of it.
It doesn't, actually. Mutating overrides Power and Toughness of any creature that's not on top. Pack Rat's text isn't an override effect, it's defining what it is in the first place.
See: Quicksilver Gargantuan.
@@snakeman830 And just when I thought I had a handle on how Mutate works... This makes no sense.
@@snakeman830 Check the release notes, they specifically identify this case as overwriting the P/T of the topmost object. With Pack Rat, unless its the topmost creature, it is potentially going to die if you mutate it and control no other rats.
@@misterdoctor9693 As they mentioned in the video actually means has so when it comes to p/t changing it is still effected because its ability really means "This creature's power and toughness is equal to the number of rats" the stars one the card have no gameplay effect in the rules of magic, they are stars to make it simple for us to understand, even if pack rat had 20/20 written in the p/t box the card wouldn't really be different, it would just be more confusing
You are correct. Pack Rat was a terrible example. I'm guessing neither Josh or Jimmy knew how the rules worked for characteristic-defining abilities at the time of making this video. Definitively do not add Pack Rats to your mutating deck!
Fun fact: if you go to the official wotc website there is a page there with "vivien field notes" and the entry on Otrimi says he might be a youngling of Brokkos species.
So like, flavor 100. Also great vid!
43:16 I really like Progenitor Mimic in a clone deck because what you guys forgot to mention is that if you mutate ontop one of the token copies it is no longer a toke, so it will also copy itself each turn
Regarding the confusion of commander tax, Yuriko and Derevi says Put this creature while mutate is cast this as mutate so Commander Tax apply to otrimi's mutate cost since your casting it.
55:15 wait a minute, why does Jimmy say that Utami can "always come back for the same price over and over again"?
Mutate is an alternate cost, not an ability like Yuriko's or Derevi's. This means you HAVE to pay the commander tax every time you Mutate it.
I hope this was just a slip of the tongue and not something on which they based the whole deck around. They do talk about a turn 4 Utami mutaded, but I didn't catch any other mention of mutating it a second time.
Me: Mutate looks sweet!!!!
CZ: This is how mutate works with all these cards.....
Me: Going with the Mana dork commander.
Not that the commander is bad... That's just a specialty deck to make.... Hail Hydra!
You are doing the right thing mutate is bad I mean seriously most mutate effects forces you to focus all your cards on 1 easily killable creature and are overpriced version of other cards cause you dont bestow a creature you basically replace an already existing creature
Two words. Slippery bogle.
Commander tax still applies to mutate, it’s an alternate casting cost, not an activated ability
"Gotta be careful about single target removal." (Thrun, the Last Troll breaking through the walls) "MY TIME IS NOW."
Right? This deck loves him
One of my first thoughts of what I’d add to this deck
First card that came to mind for me !
Gladecover scout has entered the chat
I'd also recommend phantom nantuko
Spark Double from WAR would be nuts since it skips the legendary rule
Helm of the host while we are at it ?
Was gonna mention HoH as well
You can copy mutate creatures to get rid of the legendary card type and then copy. No need to have legendary effects
Just make sure the top card is not Legendary and you are good to go with clones. It only has the characteristics of the top card.
A good recommendation I saw on another channel (nitpicking nerd if you are interested in watching them) is Infinite reflection. This can get insanely broken if you don't have a legendary on top of your mutated creature. I'm also going to experiment with the myriad creatures. The blue one is probably the best as she as a lower cmc and allows you to draw a card, but I feel this can get spicy in my casual playgroup.
Edit : Unless I'm mistaken, if you mutate on a creature with +1/+1 counter, you keep the counters which is why there's so many hydra in the deck as they boost Otrimi. I do agree it's a lot slower tho due to the high cmc
Man, I feel like a real idiot for buying two Arcane Signets at $30 each
😢
Sorry man, but at least you’ll be getting more.
F
Sorry that happened to you.
You probably shouldn't. You got unlucky, that's true, but it's quite a surprise wotc reprinted the card that much
I think Brokkos is the better Commander, adding cheap undestructible and unblockable creatures for Commander damage.
Some suggestions for further budget upgrades:
"Elusive Tormentor // Insidiuos Mist"
A 6/6 Commander with Hexproof, undestructible and unblockable is rediculous
"Mythos of Brokkos" is a four mana tutor for permanents
"Sea-Dasher octopus" was also missing i think.
Thank you very much for your content. You are by far one of the greatest YT- Channels.
Small rules thing that y'all probably didn't even know when you made this video, but worth mentioning for people doing these upgrades: at 42:10 Jimmy says that the [*]/[*] in Pack Rat's cost won't matter if you mutate a big thing onto it. Unfortunately, according to the release notes for the set, that's not true. The power and toughness defining ability will override whatever power and toughness are on top.
From the article: "If a merged permanent has characteristic-defining abilities, they overwrite the characteristics from the topmost object. For example, if a merged creature has an ability that defines a * in its power or toughness, such as that of Boneyard Mycodrax, that ability overwrites the power and toughness defined by the topmost object of the merged creature." reference: magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/ikoria-lair-behemoths-and-commander-2020-edition-release-notes-2020-04-10
I can't wait to mutate Brokkos or Otrimi (as commanders) on a Lord of Extinction or Consuming Aberration...
If only it kept all the creature types of the mutation stack... :(
@@elephantbat but it does do something funny atleast with devotion gods if the top card is not the god and the devotion is not met. It becomes a card without a type and so cant be removed
@@victorbourguignon6897 WHOA! That's SIIICK!!!
I think Vindicate or Anguished Unmaking could still hit it even if it's a typeless permanent..... right?
@@elephantbat true... since its an over arching category, but otherwise nothing that targets or globaly wraths with mention to a specific type cant affect it.
Yes! The one I’ve been waiting for
Ye same
Partner commanders from this deck for me
My favorite interaction is with etrata the silencer. If she exiles a mutate pile she instantly causes the owner of that pile to lose the game as long as there are 3 or more creatures in that pile lol
how? it's considered one creature
@@pinhead61187 not when it changes zones
Amazing card for this deck is Elusive Tormentor. Its a vampire that flips for 1 colorless and discard a card. It becomes Indestructible, Hexproof, Unblockable and its only down side is it cant block.
1. I love the primary commanders artwork
2. Thanks so much for the review and help with making the deck better
3. I really can't wait to get this deck a play against people
one recommendation for this deck that wasn't mentioned, Strionic Resonator, 2 mana-> double the mutate trigger abilities
Only 1 doubled
Aaaargh! Was hoping for your take on the Bant / Kithril deck 😔. Never mind....this is just as awesome! I can't believe I've only just started Commander! The years I've wasted. Love the content guys.
Kathrill seems like it can get absolutely MASSIVE if played with izoni, too bad it hates bogs...XD
I think you mean Abzan...
@@gavinmartinek2124 bah, details details! SWARM THE FIELD!!!!
Gavin Martinek, ah yes! You’re quite right! Thanks!
I’m surprised that Jarad didn’t make it into kathrill. She(he? I dunno) gets arbitrarily massive if you put Zetalpa and Akroma into the bin with buried alive, so you can’t swing in with double strike, kill them, and then sacrifice her to kill the other 2 or at least deal a lot of damage in response to a board wipe
to stop target removal, just add some small hexproof cards so that you can mutate the big creatures onto them and then they can't get clapped
They can still target the mutate right?
@@mclainmartin3323 nope, once you mutate the whole stack is considered as one, chonky creature. So inherits the hexproof
Something funny about the blink, exile, etc being, "Surprise! We were actually 4 creatures :O"
Fun
I just want to mention, that you can use Needle Specter instead of Dreamstealer if i am not totally wrong.
1st thing hex proof 2nd indestructible 3rd go nuts 4th copy. Remember you can still attached equipment & auras
MtG, X-Men, and Pokemon? This episode contained all 3 of my favorite fandoms. Best podcast EVER!
Great videos, this whole week I was waiting excited for the next precon deck upgrade guide. Your videos will help me choose which decks to buy so I can start playing EDH for the first time, keep up the great work!
i love how since everyones stuck at home they are helping a smaller channel grow.
90's X0-men theme was my opening song for my college radio show. Am continually impressed by the opening songs on this show. Great choice!
I like that they included a minor hydra sub theme because hydras are excellent mutate targets. They keep the +1/+1 counters so if you make a 5/5 hydra and then mutate Otrimi onto him he's 11/11, and can two-shot people. Probably not worth it to keep them all in and focus on hydras, but having a few good ones like Genesis Hydra is awesome.
Deck building is my favorite thing about Magic aside from the Gathering, and I can't wait to both play around with tuning each of these AND watching other people pull these new decks out so I can see what they are capable of.
This deck in particular is the one I am most excited to see tuned
The interactions with mutate have so much potential, the fact all the stuff comes back split into each creature with a blink effect or something is huge, and if someone oblivion rings your big mutated boi and that ends up being removed (not hard with green/blue) you suddenly can go wide with it all, plus any etb effects mixed in there.
Also gonna make a lot of people hesitate to pull any mass blink effects.... also if you want that to trigger that interaction yourself, it's way easier to blink your one creature than your whole board (again easy with blue here). Not to mention the interaction with undying...there's a lot here and that's just part of it.
Gonna be a lot to pay attention to with this deck!
The mutate deck is actually the one I'm most excited to build around actually. New mechanics are fun. The Cycling deck looks strong, but also streamlined to a single direction. My playgroup is building mutate decks with Infect, Slivers, Voltron, Elves and one even came up with a combo version.
Mutate says cast and so otrimi still getting more expensive
If i'm understanding the rule correctly, you cast Otrimi with mutate but you don't have to pay commander tax for the mutate cost, only if you were to hard cast him. This basically makes him immune to tax if you have another creature on the board.
@@madscientist2621 It's an alternative casting cost, not an activated ability like Derevi has. You would have to pay +2 per time casted while still using mutate. It cannot cheat the tax, unless they do something that goes against how the rules have worked for previous legendaries with alternative costs.
@@howlinglotus see, I have never played with a commander with an alternative casting cost and I'm new to commander. Thanks for the update. It makes mutate slightly less powerful.
@@madscientist2621 I think the way Jimmy talked about it was misleading, so I can see where you were coming from 100%. It seemed like a mixture of wrong information and talking about a few things at once. The only commanders I know that get around tax like that are Derevi and Yumiko.
howlinglotus wrong
good thing I ordered a Cephalid constable before this video was published :
also, I've always been trying to find a place for my chilling apparition, but if you're not interested in the discard I would honestly recommend mischievous poltergeist instead
If you mutate on top of a Theros god and you don’t meet the devotion costs it is an indestructible typless permanent lol
woah!
One thing about hungering hydra- any amount of counters you invest in it will transfer to the creature you mutate it onto, making otrimi an 8/8 haste on turn four.
yo Progenitor Mimic is one of my favorite cards of all time. Back when I was in high school, a friend really wanted to get me into the game as more than just a super casual, so he gave me a few cards to power up my filthy casual deck, and that was one of them. It was pretty much new at the time, and I loved it. Copied my Beguiler of Wills, and stole everything. It was bonkers.
I would say that auspicious starix is is one of the best cards in the deck since it brings so much card advantage and there are many creatures so it's unlikely to whiff. Another good card to add is sea dasher octopus,it's a 3 drop unlockable with when ever sea dashed octopus deals combat damage you draw a card.
I’ve been slowly building an X spell Sultai deck with Damia as the commander. Guess she’s getting kicked out and replaced with that hydra.
Adam Kirsch I’m stoked to build that deck too. I’m trying to decide if I should buy this precon or just get zaxara as a single and build that.
@@jakeapplegate6642 well you could probably get the precon for 40$ and zaxara costs 16$ and you got some nice extras so I think it's better to get the precon for the black spell propaganda and other stuff
I'm so hyped for all the new cards... Really hope to get the Jeskai & Mardu decks
Cyclops's eye beams are a heatless concussive beam that comes from a different dimension that his eyes Project. Just a fun marvel fact.
Heatless? In the movies I remember flames where he shot
Probably the best deck of the C20 precon
Another important rule to note is 712.4d. When dealing with a mutated commander, mutate behaves like meld for zone changes so don't worry if you decide to zone the commander because the other creatures in the mutation won't follow it:
"If multiple replacement effects could be applied to the event of a melded permanent leaving
the battlefield or being put into the new zone, applying one of those replacement effects to one
of the two cards affects both cards. (If the melded permanent is a commander, it may be exempt
from this rule; see rule 903.9a.)"
The simplest way to explain mutate is that, the creature that is the top card and the abilities of everything bellow.
true but there are lots of weird interactions that saying it like that isn't 100% accurate. like how undying interacts with it.
I built an Energy Commander deck with Hope of Ghirapur as my commander. It went infinite with Ashnod's Altar, Gonti's Aether Heart, and the Modules. I will admit that I only pulled it off once, but it was pretty fun to play other times too.
that cephalid constable interaction is DISGUSTING
Thanks for including a section on how Mutate works!
31:58 all mutated cards on a creature will follow that creature wherever it goes. The only stipulation is if they are returned to the battlefield by delayed trigger, they are no longer mutated together. (Additional spells bringing back the main creature, will no longer effect all of them)
An easy way of remembering how this part of mutate works.
Hey, do you know if someone exile my mutated pile with a white enchantement like there were so many recently. If I destroy the enchantment, does it come back separatly too?
Something with the effect of "Exile target creature until _____ leave the battlefiel."
@@Arlano76 Yes, they come back seperately.
With the commander if you choose to take it to the command zone, the whole stack goes to the command zone. But only the commander can be recast from there. The rest of the stuff from the stack is stuck on the command zone til end of game.
Here’s another Corner case. If you mutate a creature like Otrimi onto a Theros god like Kruphix, but you don’t have enough devotion what happens then? It’s only type is a creature but it’s effect says it’s not a creature.
Scute swarm is a great new card that will make this deck that much better! and also because of how creature heavy this deck is I think Vizier of the menagerie is a good card.
Quick rules thing, I'd like to point out mutating onto a */* creature overwrites the PT of the top creature since it is an ability, albeit one that defines a trait.
I grew up hearing that song and its stuck in my brain forever!
Doing the X-Men theme song at the beginning? Amazing. *chef's kiss*
Mutate and Morph was my first thought!! I have a Manifest and Morph deck. Will be adding mutate immediately.
I love this deck idea. I can't wait to play with mutate and to come up with some silly combinations.
I never heard alot about putting bestow mechanic and adding it into the deck. ... I personally love the idea if switching tactics.... from tall to wide. With bestow you can board wipe easier.
37:53 "Cephalid Constable is only $0.50" Umm, try $15. It's an easy miss and the rest of the video was really helpful. Thanks for another great one!
Both of Pack Rat's abilities work whether you place it on the top or the bottom, which means it will have the same power/toughness either way and it can copy itself with all the mutated creatures attatched.
With the mutate thing, there will be so many possibilities for broken creatures! A deckbuilders dream, since there will probably be a lot of ways of how you can build a strong but still fun deck.
Missed something I think is absolutely amazing in Commander with this deck, and it’s actually rather recent and cheap: Repudiate/Replicate. You can either copy your big mutate creature or counter your opponents massive etb ability or artifact ability or planeswalker ultimate or any other ability you can think of. This card will usually be EXTREMELY helpful in most scenarios.
“Finally! Heroic has a real place!” Is what I’d say if it wasn’t mostly on humans....
Or in Boros colours
There are some really good heroic creatures that aren’t in boros though and they’d be perfect for mutation..... if they weren’t human.....
@@oracleofgames8590 I was thinking of Satyrs, which are non-human but red. Come to think of it... Aren't there a couple of heroic centaurs in green? Centaur Battlemaster?
There are a couple of centaurs and a couple of merfolk I believe however the centaurs are quite overcosted for what they do.....
Best build for this deck is going to be low to the ground Hexproof, Indestructible, and Unblockable. The removal vulnerability is the thing that will hold back the deck the most. Its the mana cost disparity of counter spells and card disadvantage issue in a different form. I think protecting investment vs capitalization on investment will give a stronger longevity in a game.
I love this channel! My playgroup always watches, and my friend Jason sends a text when a new episode is out. Thank you for your content and the laughs!
A person of culture
It’s my boy Jason Brown, sorry
This creature has flash. That means you can do it incredibly fast. Wow Jimmy. Thank you.
I don't know if I'm correct, but I believe since Mutate is an alternate casting cost and not an ability that commander tax would still stack, since it still counts as being cast. Still a great card, still ordered the deck, but based on the references I've seen as such with Fist of Suns and Ur-Dragon v.s. Yuriko, it is the difference in the ability placing a creature on the battlefield and casting it for a reduced or simply alternate cost.
My otrimi deck is gonna have acentcism however u spell that 😂 and a bunch of low cmc hexproof creatures very excited for this sultai stomp deck . 100 percent gonna fit in the new mutate cards when the set drops as well. Very excited for these precons !
Thanks for the birthday gift guys
Damn just popped up seconds ago and ready got beat to the comments. Anyways I bought all the decks so I love these episodes
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE... make a video of gameplay with the upgraded decks going head to head! It is amazing watching out of the box gameplay but I would love to see the upgraded decks gameplay!
I am honestly most excited for this deck
What do you think of moving more towards Ukimmi voltron? You can mutate on top of Ukimmi to increase the power. I don't think there have to be too many edits in order to tool the precon into that idea.
Brew the list!
love the deck tech!! You need to let ppl know that Card kingdom is not shipping right now, when you do their plug.
Loved the X-Men bit. I'd like to point out that, on occasion, people have grabbed Cyclops and used him as a human laser cannon, and in particular I remember Magneto pulling the trick not long after being released from his infant form and being rescued from Dr. MacTaggert's lab by Eric the Red in one of the 70's Uncanny X-Men issues. Also, I think it's funny that the guy who kills things by looking at them got killed by the guy who kills things by talking to them.
Woohoo! Wanted this one for a while!
Pretty sure Silent Arbiter was printed in the original Mirrodin Block (faith dawn?) first :p
It's actually pronounced "bes·chee·eh·ree". I know I used to think it was "bee-stee-eh-ree" since it was a book about BEASTS
But we want it to be BEAST-iary, so that is what it shall be.
Bought this deck so I'm really looking forward to upgrading it with all my lonely 2 drop regenerate and indestructible creatures just lying around
Funny thing about Cyclops, it's not even a laser beam. It's actually pure kinetic energy from the punch dimension. Comics are so weird that Cyclops eyes are actually a portal to a different dimension.
mmm mutating over a stormsurge kraken. you still control your commander if it's on top, so you get +2/+2 and if they block it you draw 2 cards. Interesting combo. Oh, hexproof as well is a bonus!
Obviously it's 5 mana, but i think the safety and utility effects along with the "beat'em up" encouragement is perfect for the deck. Not competitive, but still fun.
I think you should consider hexproof / indestructible creatures as a base for mutation: Paradise druid, gladecover scout, darksteel myr, slippery bogle, silhana ledgewalker and recently Toski. Predator ooze is also not bad.
Cephalid inkshrouder, lotleth troll, key to the city, and other cards that let you discard for powerful effects are pretty good here.
There really needs to be a page in the stats overview showing the different stats in how many of the cards fall into multiple categories. For example, how many of the reprints in this deck from the ikoria set count towards the total number of mutate cards, how many of the removal or draw effects fall in with that category, etc.
Two honorable mentions in my opinion are both pemmins aura and freed from the real. Both are incredibly inexpensive enchantments that generate infinite colored mana with zaxara. Even without building around zax it's a no brainer to put 7$ into the deck for two infinite mana combos
It looks like it might be time to upgrade my Tasigur/Villainous Wealth deck. Zaxara is too tempting to pass up to make that strategy work...
BlueInkAlchemy Do you have a decklist available? That deck sounds awesome.
@@GigaLordShinyMudkip1 Here's my current list. It's tuned for 2DH, but I've been thinking of upgrading it, especially with this new precon coming. aetherhub.com/Deck/Public/249916
@@GigaLordShinyMudkip1 I should also note that the original inspiration came from an early episode of Commander's Quarters: th-cam.com/video/ZLljaSAiypc/w-d-xo.html
The reason why X spells matters are in the deck is because mutate goes really well with creatures with +1/+1 counters on them
45 seconds in, started with the 90's cartoon x-men theme. This is going to be a good one.
Hungering hydra would be awesome, it passes on its 1/1 counters, and adds more
I’m currently setting up a deck that runs with Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder and mutate, this solstice deck will be a great base to work off of
Questing Beast must be sad that he didn't get an honorable mention for something good to mutate onto.
He’s going to be the best flavour in Sultai (keyword)soup decks.
@@Bloodaegisx kathril will take him, kathril loves his soups
If I were to buy one which one should I buy to be most competitive out of the box with a few upgrades?
What happened to the Menache when reviewing endling