sad you went past my favorite joke in all of korra. "we're walking in circles, i've seen that same spirit mushroom five times!" "thats not the same mushroom" "yes i am!"
My man this is a repeated meme in Tumblr it would be a waste of breath to even bring it up because it's been reposted millions of times and just adds to the fact the plot lost all seriousness that it was crying it had
@@wumbojet I heard somewhere that Iroh was originally meant to betray Zuko and reveal himself to be a secret agent, but it got scrapped for obvious reasons.
Ok so I definitely agree, but calling the literal embodiment of light, "mid" is fucking hilarious and should have been said in the show by like bo Lin or some shit 😂😂😂
well considering the dealio was "if they remain in eternal struggle, everything is fine, sort of. but if they ever stop, evil wins and everything turns to darkness" I think that does suggest evil is stronger than good. Which it typically is, since.. yknow, strength is not something good tends to stockpile for itself, in this kinda namby-pamby fantasy story.
tbh i think they should have just scrapped that idea in the first place. They literally could have made the story like god somehow took form and that was the avatar and made some lore out of that. If avatar is inspired by asian/native american cultuers, they would realize that god itself was taken on many forms as avatars. Not some kite spirit who abilities are nothing without bending.
The destroying of the past avatars would have meant something in a different show. In Korra, it doesn't, because she never fckn communicates with them. She looses a tool she never uses anyway. We only care because we know those avatars from a different better written show. In this one, they mean nothing.
The only reason she would care about her past lives at all is solely the fact that Aang restored her bending in season 1, which is an act that she didn't earn in the slightest and makes absolutely no sense within the realm of the show. If we're operating under Korra's attitude during most of season 2 then it DOES sorta make sense why she herself would give even a single shit about her past lives, but the show is trying to act like Korra cares because we the audience care which is a stretch in itself. It's like that quote from Kylo Ren in the Star Wars sequels, "Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to."
Yeah, when you think about it the only investment from your audience in that scene is based on them having seen the original. If they haven't they're probably not going to feel anything or think much of it.
Thing is. I don't hate the bold move or whatever. But Unalak? Really? I know the villains are often relative nobodies. Doesn't help that all the kite stuff is lame and reductive to start
You are 3000% correct on the observation that the Avatars should have been erased in the opposite order. Not only does that make more sense, since the older avatars presumably have weaker ties to the present, but also from a writing perspective it's more a more edge of your seat progression like "oh shit, not Kioshi! Will they be able to stop him before they get to Aang?!" Such a wasted dramatic moment
11:10 So, Bumi having Nam flashbacks implies that there are serious horrors that just exist in their world. Serious enough that they sent an international peacekeeping force to address it, yet they wrote him as a bumbling idiot. I dare say, it would be more interesting if he was a jaded veteran, a hardened killer who plays the fool to hide his pain. It would also make his strained relationship with Aang make more sense. His choice to join the military, rather than uphold Nomad values, driving a wedge between them would have been amazing. 14:45 Seen too much anime to see that normally. Also raises the question of how he can pull out a piece of her soul. Bonded forever sounds like they are no long two distinct entities.
I actually hoped that they would make something of that scene with Bumi. He tells fantastical stories and everyone assumes that he's full of it, but here, he's not telling anyone a story so we assume that these are valid memories. So he either actually believes all the nonsense he spouts, or some of it may not be as nonsensical as we assumed. But no, he's just a sheet of cardboard and they needed him to look frightened for the plot, so that's what they drew on his face this episode.
Idk, I think that's actually what they're trying to do with him. I have a character that is, imo, Bumi-Done-Right, but I think there is some depth to him we just never see it on screen
11:10 oh so you mean Jong Jong, or any of the white lotus? Technically Ravaa isn't a part of the avatars soul rather she's like a parasite or a symbiotic entity. Her only goal is to choose an avatar and latch onto them but in no way is it permanent NOW ripping the soul of aang out of ravaa is a genuine soul question however og avatar shows us how it's possible to end the line there as that's when their souls are fully out and about
"Jaded fool who hides his pain" is such an over done trope. I think Aang and OG Bumi show that there's nothing wrong with facing serious threats like the Fire Nation, but also being goofy sometimes. No need to turn New Bumi extra serious.
shit was stupid, being an avatar for literaly thousands of lifetimes and all their power and knoweldge just goes to waste becasue they are "connected" to a white kite spirit able to be ripped out. Give me a break.
dude you hit the nail RIGHT on the head with the 'afraid of the show making it so Unalaq can bend all the elements' I was literally so scared of that bullshit happening the first time I watched this
Vaatu: "nothing could stop this moment." Except for, Korra not being a twat for half the season, not being easily manipulated by Unalaq, not meditating into the Spirit World to close a portal she didn't need to, and the writers not making everyone a dumbass for the sake of plot.
26 วันที่ผ่านมา +16
Or Overanalysing Avatar pausing the video to comment on it!
I probably wouldn’t have been stopped had Unalaq did the smart thing and just took Korra to the North Pole immediately after opening the southern portal, instead of wasting time in a southern occupation. He probably could’ve still done that but with Korra already far and out of the way around completely ignorant of it.
Don't forget forcing Mako into uncomfortable positions, him having the only braincell,and essentially needing to deal with a girl that has selective memory loss Let's not add onto the fact that if she remembers the south pole and tenzin and unalaq then she remembers how disrespectful she treated mako and how her way of apologizing is to shove her face into his as if that's any way to properly apologize
Commentating the moment Aang is errased from existence with "right in the aang" is probably the biggest laugh your channel has brought me yet. It just caught me completely of guard...
I really don't like the "killing off the previous avatars" thing for a few different reasons, it's largely kind of just a petty thing of I'm mad they're gone, but I do think it is an actually bad thing to do for the show: Partly because they really haven't done much with the fact that the avatar has connection with and can commune with their past lives, Aang gave Korra some honestly kind of unimportant clues last season, which isn't a particularly cool thing for a past avatar to do, and then gives Korra her bending back after, which is definitely a big deal but like it's weird because he's seemingly there in the flesh energy bending her? We learn about Wan and I guess you could argue it's Wan telling Korra his story which is definitely meaningful but at best it kinda just feels like she's watching Wan do a powerpoint presentation, it doesn't really compare to the way that Aang had actual conversations with Roku and other avatars. Genuinely the best use of a previous avatar was the conversation between Aang and Tenzin, one that has nothing to do with the current avatar. So like it almost feels insulting to do very little with one of the coolest concepts from Airbender and then permanently remove it from the canon, but ironically, it doesn't end up being that big of a deal for Korra in practice, like yes it was absolutely a bad thing but it was barely being used before she lost it so we don't really notice the impact it should be having, it ends up feeling like it was just done for shock value honestly. And then also I think it just does even more damage to the idea and coolness of the avatar spirit, on top of what the concept of Raava on it's own does already, this seems like Raava is "storing" each avatars distinct personality, which I guess isn't explicitly a contradiction of what we already knew but is very much a different vibe from how it was communicated to us prior, similar to the whole learning from the original benders and lion turtles thing. Like I certainly got the idea that it was a continuous spirit that is different people over the years and its combined self is added to through each life, one spirit that is an amalgamation of all the previous avatars, and then that was already changed by the addition of Raava, but you at least got the sense that it was maybe her spirit combined with every new life over the years especially seeing as Raava herself as a voice/personality is completely absent until this episode. Now it's a bunch of distinct spirits that Raava is just like, holding onto? I guess? Which is just way less cool and compelling and interesting to me. Then combining that with how the show treats the avatar state after this also, previously the avatar state was definitely a powerup, but it was a powerup because it was the combined skill and mastery of every previous avatar, but now that all those previous avatar's spirits are gone, the power gained from the avatar state should be gone too right? No, it's still just as powerful, but it's now just a literal arbitrary boost of her abilities, way way less cool.
@ladylagsalot1122 The past avatars felt sort of like family in the original series. They didn't talk down to him or speak in riddles, he was still a kid but they were like guardians or aunts and uncles to him. They gave him their wisdom and helped him when he struggled. In Korra, Raava is more like a flash drive with Aang.doc and Roku.doc on it.
I was thinking something similar to your last point. That a big part of the power of the avatar as established in the first series is the past lives thing. They're an option for guidance, and when entering the avatar state, the power of all of them is available. The avatar has mastered all four elements thousands of times. So do the future avatars just suck now? Or was the avatar literally just Raava and the stuff we were told before about the reincarnation being important just a big lie?
@@orangesilver8 I feel like this occurred to them, that Wan and the first few avatars would be considerably weaker, so they depowered the current avatar so their OCs wouldn't be the worst
9:45 What's even worse is that when you think about it 10000 years isn't even that long. Assuming the average life span of an avatar is 100 years that would mean that there have only been 100 avatars. Even if you lowball it even more, assuming the average age of an avatar is 50 years, that would still make it only 200 avatars. I guess it's still a high number but in Atla it felt like the avatar lineage was something unfathomable, bigger than life. That's not even considering Kiyoshi lived for 230y and and Aang for 166
I think the loss of the avatar state and the past lives is ultimately made worse by the fact that it even being possible is only because of the avatar in general being undermined by these two immense spirits existing in the first place. A completely new piece of lore introduced explicitly so that it could be the stakes for the fight, then quickly vaporized by the end of the season.
ehhh iirc it was already possible in the lore. Pathik told Aang that if he died in the avatar state, the reincarnation cycle would end and there would never be another avatar. That... weirdly jives with this, since it's the Raava state. The state in which Raava herself is actually vulnerable I guess?
@@KairuHakubijust because it makes sense, doesn’t make it good. We could get a whole season of Korra sitting on a bench not moving at all and we as fans can say „yeah, lore wise, nothing in canon is broken“ but is that what the story should to to be entertaining. It doesn’t matter if it makes sense if it just kind of comes out of nowhere and only exist for a short therm shock by never building up to it. Korra was never as interested in the lore and past avatars like Aang was and we as the fans where more hyped even still. So when Korra loses her connections and raava, we as an audience aren’t as invested since Korra never showed concern or connection to raava or the past avatars. She never talked about it or anything.
@@patrickzantomaster sure, but the assertion in question was that that made it worse because it wasn't that way before. just saying, there existed a way to lose the avatar state before.
@@KairuHakubi One that made sense; exposing the inner self, allowing it to be destroyed along with the body. Anyone *could* have done it, with the right power and skill. This situation, on the other hand, is only possible due to the contrivance of the story where the villain just so happens to have that ability. If *anyone* else had been trying to conquer the north pole, it'd be a total non issue. The entire season is set up for it, but it's ONLY for the shock value of the viewer, not to actually provide something for the characters to work with.
@@TheTolnoc come to think of it yeah, nobody but vaatu could just yank raava out of the avatar, could they.. but like, i think that's actually in its favor? that this isn't an occurrence that could just happen anytime.
Good video as always but I kinda wish you had taken more time to discuss what is one of, if not the most, controversial moment in Avatar lore. The killing off of previous avatar lives being a moment that has actual lasting impact is but one perspective on that moment that in my opinion is kind of a niche one. Because like, what lasting effects does it actually really have on the world past this? I’d argue opening the spirit portals fills that role much better, even if they fail to really capitalize on it in later seasons. Korra had multiple times this season where she probably should have asked her previous iterations for help, but doesn’t. In fact, she doesn’t give a shit about them at all this season. Doesn’t communicate with them or talk about them or even think about them (except Wan, obviously). So it won’t really have any impact on the future of Korra, nor will it really affect the next avatars after her since they will have Korra to guide them. When they kill Aang and them off, it is purely a visceral emotion from the viewer that, “hey, wtf, the writers just killed Aang”. There’s no emotion provoked for the actual plot and characters happening on screen. Korra hasn’t cared about them the entire season. They could have written a billion different ways for Korra to be emotionally invested in her past lives. As it stands in season 2, it’s simply a spiritual affect she’s lost. But what if after Aang gave her bending back in the season 1 finale, we start season 2 off with her relying too heavily on her past lives? Then add in her self doubt she goes through this season, put in your idea of her struggling to control the avatar state, and you could easily write a compelling storyline where the deaths of past avatars actually impacts Korra and the story outside of the meta perspective of the viewer that Aang means a lot to them, and not anybody actually in the piece of literature we are watching. If this had happened in ATLA, it would have been devastating because it would have seriously hurt Aang. Not because we care about Kuruk, or Yangchen, or whatever.
@@toasterowens8916 I don't think you get what IcyElement is saying. Roku dealing with Sozin is interesting because Roku has stake in it too, it's his best friend. But here, the show has given no indication Korra gives a shit, at all, about the past avatars. She has not spoken to any of them, asked for any advice or reflected on it in the slightest. This moment, like IceElement is saying, feels so unjust because there is no point for the characters in the show itself. It is just there to evoke a reaction in us, the viewers. And that is cheap. It's cheap like a jumpscare directly at the screen in a horror movie. It's playing at us, the viewers, instead of the characters in the show.
Coming at this as a person who is very defensive of LoK, I never really liked the erasure of the past lives. It doesn't really feel as consequential as they want it to seem. Like, I feel like for most of seasons 1-2, the past lives are hardly used/mentioned at all outside of Aang, and going forward, losing them doesn't seem to really affect Korra as an Avatar all that much (at least once she refuses with Raava). If LoK was your first exposure to the franchise, you'd be forgiven for not even quite understanding why this event is so bad. This is especially weird because in TLA, Roku explains that the Avatar State's power derives from the combined knowledge and perspective of all the other previous Avatars. So to me, losing them seems to enforce the idea that what makes the Avatar special is not necessarily all of that collective wisdom, but just being a special fusion of some guy and basically god. Which isn't bad at all, but definitely less interesting, especially since, by Roku's logic, the Avatar State shouldn't even really exist after this (or at least be far less powerful). Idk, I'm probably just being pedantic, I just feel like my issue with this is deeper than "hurdur reincarnation cool." This show is delightfully frustrating like that
I defs agree with the whole Avatar state thing. Like in ATLA, when Aang went into the Avatar State, everyone including the audience, is like oh fuck-this ain’t good. He then usually destroyed whatever he was near, or caused some major environmental damage. With Korra it just feels like she gets to make either the water or air tornado column things and her eyes glow. Very lame. It should be this cosmic thing that only gets activated when it absolutely has to be.
All that said, I can understand why they wouldn't want to make the Avatar State a problem in LOK because they already explored that conflict through Aang's journey to mastery in ATLA. Even then, a comet-boosted Ozai couldn't even touch Avatar State Aang. It makes me wonder what they really could have done to raise those stakes and create a proper challenge, at least at this point in the show's development. A harder rule such as the one you suggest at the end would certainly have helped. Like how Aang's emotional state played a huge part in his early uses of the Avatar State.
I kind of felt the exact opposite about the impact of losing all the past avatars. It had almost no emotional impact because korra was never shown to have any connection to the past avatars to being with. The only time the past lives thing ever mattered to korra is when aang shows to up at the end of season 1 to solve all her problems. She never connects with any of the avatars. She never even tries to connect with the any of the avatars except that one time while imprisoned. She's never even shown to be too bothered by the fact she can't connect with the past avatars. It would be one thing if she was shown be slowly building up to connecting with her past lives over the last 2 seasons, growing a kind of friendship with her past lives, only for it to be taken away at the end of season 2, but no. It was just "remember that thing she barely ever did? Well now she's never gonna do it. Oh and aang is gone now. Get fucked"
I wonder why she didn’t just stop being connected to Unalaq, she made the water arms and bound herself to him, so why couldn’t she just disconnect them?
Super-killing the protagonist of the most beloved thing they will ever make, for what is ultimately just shock value, really proves Bryke were replaced by skin-walkers between the two shows
I personally don’t think it’s just shock value, I think it helped the story get better. It avoided the idea of Korra being able to have Aang solve all her problems in the season one finale.
It's also a case of "they thought this was it for Korra" 90% of the writing flubs can be taken down to "Not knowing if their next episode will air let alone another season"
@@MrBrendan882 She didn’t even talk to Aang once in this whole season. She didn’t go out of her way to ask Aang or the other avatars for help this whole season.
I really hope they don't do that because that's a massively impactful moment in the show, probably the one big thing to come out of season 2 that I could actually care about, It really felt like a heavy loss, it would make season 2 absolutely worthless if they just changed their mind about that decision. Also I think the lack of the past avatars could potentially be a great benefit for the new show, only being able to communicate with Korra and having limited knowledge could be cool, it'd also justify them having a weaker avatar state, which would require them having to become more spiritual than most avatars before them to compensate. But seeing how they just decided to bring back the airbenders without much reasoning and pretty much just on a whim I wouldn't be surprised at all if they do something similar.
@@Voxalyst except it didn’t feel impactful. as korra didn’t really use the past avatars that much. It doesn’t really feel like anything impactful happened.
I think destroying the past lives is hated, not because its not a serious world-changing implication, I had my mind changed, I think you were right and it could be cool. But Korra season 2 did not earn it. It destoryed a cool part of the lore, implicitly making its story more 'impressive' than airbender, but it didn't make it worthwhile. Like smashing a priceless vase to make an artistic point about the desire to own fragile art, and how it was a destructive act but with a deeper meaning, versus smashing it because you think it makes a point about how angry you are. The first one, you can be upset at the reason, but it was a reason, the second one is just dumb. Destroying the past lives could have worked, if the story this season wasn't a meanderings mediocre mess.
7:09 that makes perfect sense. In faft it would make that whole light in the darkness thing later make more sense too because it would be Unalaq's remaining humanity that allows Jinora to find light within Vaatu. You could've also taken the opportunity to make Unalaq a more morally complex character by playing up that humanity earlier on. Like maybe he really does love his kids or want spirits to be happy and that's what creates a vulnerability within Vaatu when they fuse. Instead of it just being a complete deus ex machina.
For all its faults, I do think the animation here should be praised. Korra doesn’t feel strong enough in the avatar state, but the actual motions are so fluid and nice to look at. I think this episode is the coolest waterbending has ever looked
@@Zaurthur nah. Something absolutely can be appreciated purely on a visual level, and I think this deserves praise for that at least. I’d take poor animation with a fantastic story any day, but I can appreciate good animation even if it’s connected to a dumpster story
8:15 what I took from that scene in AtLA was Zhau drowned, dead. His damned spirit was then cursed to wander the fog for his crimes against humanity and the spirits. And its less his age more his fringing sanity we see in LoK.
I mostly agree with your takes here, but I have to say that when (most) people say "Korra is the worst avatar," I don't think they're mad at a fictional character for making dumb decisions. They're expressing that Korra constantly losing, making bad choices with huge ramifications, having an abrasive personality, and taking forever to grow from her mistakes makes her a character that's really hard to root for. This isn't Hamlet, Death Note, or Breaking Bad; this is a fantasy adventure show - we're supposed to like the main character, and her constant fuck ups makes that borderline impossible.
Her loosing and fucking up makes her struggles with responsibility and winning more tangible in season 3 or for since the threat of defeat is well known. Best case is when she got paralyzed but even before that she tries to do the right thing and gets punished for it either physically spiritually or mentally. So her not being as good as aang at least in seasons 3 and 4 makes the plot more captivating because the red lotus are a real threat not just ppl she can fuck up in the avatar state quickly. The writing doesn’t allow for that as much in season 2 especially tho to be fair.
@@pn2294 I'm not gonna pretend sexists don't exist, but this take is kind of nonsense. Tenzin isn't the main character, so it's not nearly as important that he's likeable and someone the audience wants to root for. He's also not the Avatar, so when people call Korra the worst one, Tenzin's not who she's being compared to, is she?
@@OrdinaryGatez Not sure how you can claim that her constant losing and fuck ups were written with the intention of having her grow from them in seasons 3/4, when the show was pitched to Nickelodeon as a 12 episode miniseries (season 1 only), and season 3 wasn't even approved until after season 1 finished airing.
8:03 in Yangchen duology, Yangchen is guided into the spirit world at age 11 for the first time with her sister Jetsun. However, whilst there they are attacked by spirits and Jetsun sacrifices herself to save her sister and her soul is lost to the spirit world. At age 17, Yangchen returns to the spirit world to find her sister and discovers her in the valley of lost souls, looking "exactly the same as she did when she first guided Yangchen into the Spirit World". (Direct quote from the Legacy of Yangchen) So it would appear the fog acts as a stasis field in the spirit world, so that's its victims cannot ever die and thus escape.
I don't know if this is a hot take but the finale of Legend of Korra season 2 is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in anything trying to take itself seriously, right but there with "Alan" from Jurassic Park III, and Leia hiding in Obi-Wan's trenchcoat in Kenobi episode 4. 18:48 It's morphin time!!! On a serious note, this feels right out of Power Rangers whenever the monster grows. I should also note that it's infuriating whenever Unalaq calls himself a dark Avatar because he's not a dark avatar HE CAN ONLY CONTROL ONE ELEMENT!!!!!!!
The Alan this was a dream & it represented the distance between Alan & the only real living not draconically chimeratized or animated dinosaur to take center stage in the framchise; a parrot! PARROT IN A CAGE WITH NOTHING TO CHEW & NOWHERE TO FLY! PARROT IN A CAGE WITH NOTHING TO CHEW & NOWHERE TO FLY! PARROT IN A CAGE WITH NOTHING TO CHEW & NOWHERE TO FLY! PARROT IN A CAGE WITH NOTHING TO CHEW & NOWHERE TO FLY! (IRL the bird is fine I think? th-cam.com/video/_dgnV3g7f6M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pUTI5fsKhI6OKqX0) that's a video of him from 12 years ago.
It's also been very poorly set up what this "dark avatar" is meant to be. Will he just go around kicking every puppy he sees? Are people going to go crazy? Are dark spirits going to invade the world? Are humans going to invade the spirit world? etc
It's been years since I've seen Koora, and I normally don't have any strong emotions towards it, but MAN...every time I see the past avatars being killed off, I get so fucking mad. It feels so disrespectful
Honestly, if they wanted to give Korra an "always available power up" they could have said something like "Korra's lesser connection to the spirits makes her avatar state weaker and thus she has more control over it." You know, instead of the forest fire that was Aang, you have the campfire that's starting to spread a bit too far that is Korra. And then give her the real big forest fire Avatar state when Raava wakes up, or whatever. And also explain that Raava never spoke to the other avatars because she was in a largely dormant state recovering and resting to conserve her spiritual power for this day. I think adding both of those would have been such good tings for the show to do. But that's just me.
I always felt like killing the past avatar’s was just there for shock value. Like just because you want to surprise the audience and “subvert expectations” that doesn’t mean it’s going to be good.
Agreed. On my first watch when it premiered, I’d assumed it was a petty “SHUT UP about Aang, we don’t want people to keep asking about Aang, this is a new show, fine, you know what? Aang’s dead. Happy now?” Now though, it strikes me more as shock value. Because as someone further down mentioned, Korra barely even interacts with her past lives. I mean, Aang rarely did either, but there was more of a sense that they were there at least. It’s just annoying. It feels like the most boring “twist” they could have chosen. Why make your world less rich and unique if you’re not even going to do anything with the “twist”?
@@pn2294 Well it made the world and the avatar themselves feel unique, but what purpose was there to killing them off including Aang the protagonist of the show before.
5:47 That's a funny head canon considering the Spirit Mushroom in this episode his voiced by Azula's voice actress lol 18:56 Kaijunavatu!? Damn how has no one else thought of that before now!
Should have* But I agree, The avatar state was originally presented as every past avatar acting through the current one, with no past avatars it should logically just be Korra on her own. But then beginnings aready went out of it's way to say fuck that, since we see Wan as the first avatar get a power-up from it. This season just sucks so much.
I understood it as the past lives only added their experiences and techniques to the current avatar when in the avatar state. ie had aang's air ball not been passed down then korra would only have access to it in the avatar state. Iroh said himself in atla book 2 that `The combination of the 4 elements in 1 person is what makes the avatar so powerful`. Wan couldn't use all 4 at once until he fused with raava. Which means that now korra's avatar state is nothing since there's no shared techniques and experiences. (since it still does give a power up in later seasons though maybe it comes from next episode's deus ex machina)
Mike: Yeah, which I'm glad we were able to do here, 'cause my one like minor, I don't know if it's regret, but the mo-you know, Korra loses her connection with the past Avatars in this episode, and it was like, we didn't really have her, it wasn't like she was chatting with Aang this whole season, or Roku, or anyone, and I was worried that maybe like the emotional impact of, you know, her losing her connection maybe wasn't gonna be as strong 'cause she hadn't been connecting with them a lot, you know? Bryan: Fear not, Mike, 'cause everyone was plenty emotional; in fact, I think they-they are really mad at us. What a couple of hacks
5:36 To add on to this, can't water benders bend snow? Couldn't they have just had him like, riding a mound of snow instead? Would've sold him being too lazy to walk without breaking any magic rules. 8:20 My best guess is the fog-spirit thing is something that like, traps your soul for eternity. Like the Dead Marshes in TLotR. You're dead, but you're still there in a way. Of course that just opens up the "what is the afterlife in Avatar" rabbit hole even more...
also I think 'darkness' is pretty easy to read between the lines of.. it means raava will be allpowerful and is going to destroy stuff and hurt people, and all the spirits will remain in their frenzied state, and everything's gonna be a big ol bummer.
Then this is one of the few times where "TELL NOT SHOW" should be in effect. I think a large part of the reason I hate the great spirits and the Wan episodes is you have this stuff like the portals fusing Raava to the Avatar and shit like "only talking due to Harmonic Convergence" and they never explain THAT while going out of their way to explain stuff we either didn't need explanations for or already had pretty satisfying explanations.
@@invidatauro8922 I dunno, maybe this is me at the time really trying to defend the show, but I found it easy enough to understand. It's not simple in a good way, but it is simple. They show us how spirits can be good or bad, and bad stuff can make spirits more bad, and we get a season of bad ones attacking people.. it seems pretty clear. if we let everything go bad, lotsa bad spirits will totally wail on everyone. And if we don't, only once in a while will that happen.
6:15 Glad to see that there is a Waterbending version of the “You dont get to play anymore” Earthbending move. Really warms my heart to see benders of one element learning from another :’)
Watching Korra go into and out of the avatar state just casually places zero weight on it whatsoever, it just feels awful to see Korras avatar state, the power culmination of 10k years, look weaker than Wans avatar state, the first avatar. If they wanted to have Korra lose, I think if they were to just make Vaatu that much more powerful to match they could have gone through with the destruction of all the previous avatars seamlessly
The thing that bugs me most about korra's fight in this episode is that she keeps going in and out of the avatar state for no reason. It makes the fight feel less dynamic. Imagine if during aangs fight with ozai, he kept going in, and out of it, it just feels weird.
On Vaatu calling Korra “Raava”, I like to think that she is the first Avatar in the last few thousand years to have accessed Wan’s memories and knows what he’s talking about. The last few dozen avatars that even wandered by his tree just thought he was a confused ranting spirit and kept walking to whatever Spirit World thing they were doing.
That's so funny to think about "Ah, Raava, you have come. Is the convergence early or are you here to gloat?" "...Who are you? I'm just looking for the guy who stole my wifes face."
@@vicenteabalosdominguez5257 Vaatu: “I shall cover the Earth in ten thousand years of darkness when I defeat you, Raava!” Kyoshi: “Big talk coming from a kite stuck in a tree. You wanna come out and back that up?” Vaatu: “GIVE ME FIVE HUNDRED YEARS-“ Kyoshi: I’ll take that as a no.
Which is ironic considering she's basically a Fire Avatar. All she's ever doing is firebending. In Season 3 she water bends SIX TIMES. But the one time she needed to pull out a kill move (Which as someone not upholding ALL of the Air Nomads traditions should be relatively serious but doable) she pulls her punch and gets thousands of people inside of her killed for it.
I fucking hate that they get rid of all avatar connections. Since the Air bender it was established that this connection goes for thousands of years and is something that connects all avatars from past and the future but no, let's throw it out of the window. Let's throw out the only thing that connects the protagonists of different shows in this universe to rise stakes in 1 fucking season.
I think the added issue of erasing Aang and all the past Avatars is basically 2 parts: The first is it seems to be a retread of Korra Ep1, "I'm the Avatar now, you have to deal with it." And 2, Korra just isn't a good show. It has good moments, but overall, it isn't as well written, so for this show to basically erase anything that matters from the previous show, is a slap in the face. It's like Disney's Star Wars Sequels. Episodes 1-6 feel pointless because Episodes 7-9 the Empire and The Emperor are still alive, so nevermind all the previous characters, they couldn't get the job done and any accomplishments actually don't mean anything because the victories didn't last.
Also it kills off the characters in the lamest way possible. So it's kinda thrown in there just for the sake of shock. It's just the question of what's worse. Luke getting character assassinated and then dying saving people. Or Aang doing nothing all season only to say some stuff to tenzin, then dying.
@@somethingclever4297 I think I can honestly say they are both equally shit and I guarantee the defenders of both decisions have a strange amount of overlap.
Who taught uno all the bending techniques ? Aang and Wan needed a whole arc (and also Aang more than a hundred past avatars). Dark Unalaq got it instantly. Vaatu fusing with unalaq should have meant an instant loss for them both.
I think the issue I have with destroying the past Avatar's are a few things. I think ATLA's way of exploring the past through the modern lenses of the show we're watching was so cool and way cooler than the little if nothing we got from Korra. So storywise, we are stagnant in this regard. Not saying there simply can't be stories about the other Avatar but one of the coolest scenes was Kyoshi possessing Aang and telling the world "Yep, I killed him" Another thing was how the world works. It's unclear if the Avatar is the only person to Reincarnate but we know they do because not only to their past lives make them stronger but also communicate with them. Getting rid of past lives feels wrong because you're basically destroying a spiritual memory. I don't like the weight of it because it neuters the Avatar as well as makes the idea of reincarnation as a whole feel less spiritual and far more physical. Also I don't think Raava contained Korra's past lives. They were all HER lives just different from what Raava is. MY issue is that attacking Raava destroys the lives in the first place.
So, let me get this straight. Korra, who has been the avatar her entire life, has mastered 3 elements and is competent at the 4th, combined with Raava, who has been fused with hundreds of avatars over the course of 10000 years, can't take on Vaatu, who has presumably fused for the first time only moments ago, to a person that has only mastered waterbending?
And Vaatu has been trapped since their last fight. So I doubt that he has gained much experience. And in the last fight he lost an avatar who didn't have the past lives and beat him 5 seconds after becoming the avatar.
I disagree a bit with his point of “be mad at the writers if anything” instead of Korra. I think it’s better for people to have bad feelings about fake things than real people who they can actually harm in real life like sending death threats or hate online.
I genuinely HATE this episode. If there was one thing that should have been at the very top of the Writer's Bible for an Avatar show, in multicoloured lettering, underlined and surrounded by flashing lights, it was NEVER DO A DARK AVATAR. I think it's best to pretend this appalling season doesn't exist.
There are two types of blunders 1. Why did that character do that 😮 (Like when Zuko betrays Iroh) 2. Why did the writers make that character do that? I'm going to kms 🤬🤬🤮🤮😭😭😱😱😥😥 (Like when they destroy the Avatar state)
I'm still enjoying these analyses. It's nice to hear a different perspective, as people focus on very different things. I don't usually notice when there's a new bending move that breaks the balance of the system, so it's interesting to see you point those out. The whole "permanently breaking the connection with past Avatars" thing, though, _really_ bothered me when they did it, and to be honest, it still does! I can't fathom why the writers would cut out such a huge chunk of their world's history, that has been the basis of so many good stories and is a huge part of what made The Last Airbender interesting and unique. I try not to be irrational about it, but it left me with a feeling of "why even bother now?"
You mentioned last episode that Raava robs the agency of goodness from our protagonists but it's worse than that. The Avatar state was supposed to be the culmination of each past Avatars experiences. It's supposed to be so powerful each passing Avatar added their skills to the wealth of knowledge of training. The idea that Raava is super powerful and that what makes the Avatar powerful robs all the hardwork every previous Avatar added. It's made worse by killing all the previous Avatars because it further cements that none of their power was needed
I saw someone say "Well, it's just them adding their experience, so it's still fine" but the issue there is it certainly seemed like Wan and Raava were about as powerful as Aang was in the state with no experience outside of themselves, so I feel like that doesn't work.
Honestly, I don't mind killing off the past lives, its whatever. But I can't help but feel that together with the industrialisation, new tech and now the reset Avatar cycle my interest in the world beyond Korra is gone. Now, I'd rather see what the world was like long before even the Avatars we know off because the continuity of the world is broken before I got a good feel for it.
Personally, I think destroying the past avatars is a sign that the writers had no good ideas and should have stopped. It's lazy writing that doesn't add anything to the world, only removing something that made avatar unique. If it was the culmination of a well written season, maybe I could forgive it. But no, instead they gave us a shoddy, sometimes incoherent season with the goal of subtracting from the story without adding anything of value. (And yes, I feel what happens to the spirits in the next episode is another removal of something that makes the world interesting. Though that's mainly down to Korra changing the spirits, plus the fact that they don't do anything interesting with the spirits moving into the spirit world after this imo.)
I think it creates a problem of Korra no longer being able to rely on past lives. It is also not completely the writers' faults because Nickelodeon forced more seasons than they planned.
@@Sakurasan2023 Yeah, but she only communicated with prior Avatars once. Maybe if it happened later or she had more meaningful interactions I would agree. Same with the idea of her losing her bending. She/we should have more time to feel those repercussions for longer, but that was solved 10 minutes later.
@@Sakurasan2023 You can only blame a studio for so much, sometimes it is the authors fault. Nobody gave the likes of High Guardian Spice any leeway when that show had a bunch of production problems with the studio as well.
@alexanderrobins7497 at least the past life problem is a long-term consequence. It is fair that Korra didn't use her past lives a lot. However, without them, Korra would have died halfway through book 2
@brandonlyon730 I never heard of high guardian spice. You are going to have to fill me on that one. It does feel like the studio did set Korra to fail. For instance, for Korra wanting help from her past lives, she wanted Aang's guidance in book 3 when it became the choice was of the Airbenders or her own life at stake. I think she really wanted some guidance to get through her ptsd and couldn't get the help.
I actually love the cartwheel tho, it matches bolins bending style perfectly with his whole "light on ur feet" mentality, also lowkey foreshadows him lavabending. (tbh my headcannon is that lava bending is a firebending/earthbending feat inspired by waterbending's fluidity...) like ghazan's bending style follows waterbending-like movement but is in essence earthbending and firebending. (LOK) Metalbending follows in suite as well with the waterbending style and fluidity but is just rigid earthbending...
I dunno, to me, killing the Avatar Cycle would be like killing the Force in Star Wars. You’ve destroyed this MASSIVE component of what makes your story and world unique and interesting, and most importantly, cool. Like seriously, the Avatar Cycle and State are just fucking sick. Hell, it’s in the damn name. Like you’ve still got lightsabers, and in Avatar’s case you’ve still got bending (the other iconic component) but a lot of the soul is gone. That being said, I think it could’ve be an absolutely sick moment story wise, if the show had earned it. Put it later (like maybe Season 3), have Korra regularly talk to her past lives and rely on them (especially Aang), have her master her spirituality, then take it all from her. It would have landed the same way Aang dying did in Season Two of ATLA. But ultimately, even if it was masterfully written, I still don’t think it’d be worth it. You lose too much. And you can’t recover from it without looking like a total hack. Don’t kill the Force man.
you did make some good points about the past lives are being destroyed. I still cannot like that decision. It's such a special part of the character of the avatar so just have it gone like that is really sad and gets rid of story possibilities in the future. Probably one of my least favourite things about Korra as a show
6:40 But like you said Vaatu just got curbstomped just as fast as when he was fighting Wan. Maybe it could have been expressed better but almost being sealed away for 10,000 years again might make you rethink your position on humans.
The big difference, I feel, is that Vaatu is not a person. He is an unfathomably ancient spirit that literally embodies the concept of evil. If there is anything that should never deviate from those principles, it is him. We as humans think 10,000 years is a long time, but it might well be a blink of an eye to Vaatu. Why compromise and act like Raava when he can just do what has worked for millions, maybe billions of previous fights?
@@rakshithanand8262evil compromises just as much as good does. Just because it’s been happening one way for a non specific long period of time doesn’t mean that it can literally never change by even the slightest iota.
And he didn't even fuse at the first opportunity he first did the fight and then got packed up real quick in the avatar state and then went crawling to unalaq
18:43 "You're telling me Jinora can do this..." I always understood it as, Jinora can do things that day because of Harmonic Convergence. She trains and becomes more proficient with her spirit powers, but she never again does the things she did in these episodes.
Man, just the simple switch of having the last past-lives avatar to be destroyed be Aang instead of Wan sent an unexpected pang of sadness through me. That could have been a great moment and with such a simple change; imagine the shot lingers on his face for a moment longer and we get a very brief musical suggestion in the score of "The Avatar's Love" or something equally tragically nostalgic. I love this channel, keep up the good work!
My biggest issue with the 10,000 years thing is that Roku says, "I have mastered the elements 1000 times in 1000 lifetimes", leaving each lifetime to be 10 years if we take it at face value. Which is made even worse by the fact that that all the avatars we see have definitely lived for more than 10 years. Which is a nitpick, but it has always bothered me a lot.
@@NotaWalrus1 Thats fair, but with that in mind, we still see an absurd number of statues, and even if we assume there was 300 avatars since that feels like "a lot of times" 33 years on average, and I could go lower and say there had to have been at least 200 from all the statues we see, and then that's 50 years each on average. Don't get me wrong, it is absolutely a nitpick, just an observation I found that I feel is pretty amusing to think about.
There's so many things that were botched in this season, wow... Like you said, they could've taken this season to have Korra develop the Avatar State and her connections with her past lives. That could've made them getting erased in the end actually feel like a genuine character moment because it hurts her, not just a fairly cheap shock to the audience who watched ATLA. There's very little consequence to Korra directly because she barely had a connection with these people, doing that properly could've had a huge emotional payoff with lasting consequences on her character. While in the actual show, it technically is a "lasting consequence", it would've been so much better if she actually had a bond with these people. It would've felt a lot more respectful and organic to the previous show instead of making it feel like they threw away the lore and world for shock value. Reversing the order would make even more sense then too, since with a proper season of building a relationship with him while mastering the Avatar State, Korra could've viewed Aang similarly to how Aang viewed Roku, and saving that for the end would increase the tension a lot as it happens. With the whole "you can't have the character be a force of nature the whole time" thing, that's a great potential reason for her to work on it more in this season, but it also would've made the whole Dark Avatar thing make more sense. If it was built up from the beginning with Unalaq, maybe having him studied various disciplines in preparation to gain Avatar powers, you could have a full-scale fight between the two without feeling like you needed to nerf the ability since they'd be on fairly equal ground (and you could just say Vatu's increased power could make up the difference in experience), and destroying the past lives could've been their way of lowering the power that's directly in line with what was stated in ATLA: it enables you to use the strength of all of the past lives together at once. It would've been a great chance to nerf the ability in a way that made sense in the world, so that they had more flexibility for the future villains and scenarios. You can really feel the limitations of the shorter seasons hit here, the entire spirit world journey felt like it should've been in a different episode but had to happen alongside the other world-shaking events because they didn't have enough space. It's pretty unfortunate because I like the scenario and the character moment at the end with Tenzin was outstanding, it just felt out of place. I know it gets a lot better from here, but man seeing how much they missed on this one was really unfortunate.
15:50 he didn’t even try to check and see if any airbenders had somehow gotten in there? They literally had the site that jinora and korra entered through. What if an airbender was stuck in there this whole time??
Now I personally agree that the Doylist reasoning for making Korra's Avatar State weaker is because of the writing oversight that having permanent access to it in its unaltered state would absolutely erase any level of conflict Korra runs into, and S1 and S2 already have a problem bagging the MCs basically every other fight. But as a prodigy bender who thinks she can solve every problem by punching it, it makes sense for an over-reliance on the Avatar State to bite her in the ass and result in her getting cocky. Someone like her would totally go "Avatar State, I win" and then just. Assume they have the power to do anything because that's what she's probably been told all her life. It's similar to her approach with learning airbending As opposed to an avatar like Aang. When he couldn't control it, it was monstrous because it was a power beyond him, and when he could, it was monstrous because he had the discipline to utilize it effectively
The thing with the destruction of the past lives is that it wasn't property set up. It just... happens. they never tell you "hey your communication with the previous avatars is in danger. We must stop this from happening". Coming from a season with untangible stakes this could've helped the urgency of stopping the evil guy I forgot his name.
Unalak is a strong bender and mako and bolin have mostly fought goons or pro benders at this point. Pro bending is a sport and much like a boxer might struggle in a real life fight against a strong opponent they struggle against Unalak. Unalak doesn't care about any pro bending rules so the 2 are fighting completely out of their comfort zone unprepared against an unfair opponent with unknown strength and moves so despite them having the strength to probably beat him they really struggle in the mind game. Pretty realistic Unalak could 1v2 them in his turf
The biggest issue with Korra losing to Unalaq is that she was fighting in the avatar state the whole time meaning she had access to the knowledge of a thousand avatars (including kyoshi) but somehow lost to a guy that by the standards of the show isn’t even that mind blowing of a waterbender.
I like to think that harmonic convergence making Rava's influence stronger over her avatar, makes sense. Like how aang could only communicate with the most recent avatars
I never understood why over the supposed 10,000 years of “light” Rava hasn’t regained her strength. Why is it that she is always the weaker one? That doesn’t really imply that there is a balance.
My headcanon for the fox following Iroh was that since the library fell into deep sand. With now no way out to fetch scrolls for the Owl. The Owl simply let them go (or kill them since idk if the Owl had access to the spirit realm) and somehow someway they just found each other. Since Iroh has a kind soul (still a war criminal by my book, but had a change of heart) the fox and probably many other spirits befriended The greatest war general the fire nation has ever had Never thought about it until you brought it up. All this simply flashed in my head like instantly
5:20 kinda shocked how seemingly everyone including OA missed the most important moment in the entire series... *in OA's PA voice* "NOT A FULLLL MOON."
What really weirds me out about the whole "Past lives are destroyed" thing is that like, it treats Raava like a storage unit of every Avatar.When an Avatar dies, they just chill inside Raava forever. Instead of like, being a spiritual connection to your previous lives, a connection to a cycle of reincarnation. Because now it's just "Nah, it's jut Raava inside a new body and she contains all the memories. She lets you talk to these different people" and it instantly drains everything interesting and larger than live about the Avatar cycle
Once again, i am just going to mention. Korra could have closed one of the portals during the time it took for the whole convergence spectacle to occur. Now, with a few weeks of thought, i will admit it would be likely that if it were the case, the writers would have said that one portal being open could have forced the other one open too. But that would have made the whole thing of breaking the north portal's shell open needles. But then again how would they have known it'd open on it's own, so it's a catch 22 sort of thing
I'm glad someone else takes umbridge with the fact that Vaatu even can pull Raava out of Kora. That was always so dumb to me, because both spirits should be fused with their hosts at that point.
Like and comment or else there will be a monster. Somewhere.
Somewhere!? That could be like anywhere😳😱
Patreon is not perfect, you should protect your content more
i’ll take the chance that it will be france or england 🙏🙏
Iroh is my favorite
😳😳
The "I wonder what Asami is doing" had me crying
"I just wonder what Ganon's up to"
I wonder what Suki is doing
I wonder what jet is doing oh wait…..
I wonder what Kum is doing.
@@pn2294 Being mercifully absent so her character can't be destroyed too.
sad you went past my favorite joke in all of korra.
"we're walking in circles, i've seen that same spirit mushroom five times!"
"thats not the same mushroom"
"yes i am!"
the best part of season 2
I...don't get it?
@@ianrastoski3346the “Yes I am” is the mushroom talking
My man this is a repeated meme in Tumblr it would be a waste of breath to even bring it up because it's been reposted millions of times and just adds to the fact the plot lost all seriousness that it was crying it had
No lie that is one of the best jokes of all of lok, but he can't hit em all
4:24 Dark Iroh be like "i hate tea grr"
Dark Iron be like "grrr Zuko, become a worse person"
HAHA
They get angry, not self-opposites, no? XD
@@wumbojet I heard somewhere that Iroh was originally meant to betray Zuko and reveal himself to be a secret agent, but it got scrapped for obvious reasons.
“Grrr fuck you Zuko.”
For a being of pure light whose entire purpose is to fight the being of pure darkness forever, Raava is like, super mid
Ok so I definitely agree, but calling the literal embodiment of light, "mid" is fucking hilarious and should have been said in the show by like bo Lin or some shit 😂😂😂
Yeah. She doesn't even have the mouth lasers that Vaatu shoots out. She can't even influence the spirits around her
Maybe Ansem was right 🤔
well considering the dealio was "if they remain in eternal struggle, everything is fine, sort of. but if they ever stop, evil wins and everything turns to darkness" I think that does suggest evil is stronger than good. Which it typically is, since.. yknow, strength is not something good tends to stockpile for itself, in this kinda namby-pamby fantasy story.
tbh i think they should have just scrapped that idea in the first place. They literally could have made the story like god somehow took form and that was the avatar and made some lore out of that. If avatar is inspired by asian/native american cultuers, they would realize that god itself was taken on many forms as avatars. Not some kite spirit who abilities are nothing without bending.
The destroying of the past avatars would have meant something in a different show. In Korra, it doesn't, because she never fckn communicates with them. She looses a tool she never uses anyway. We only care because we know those avatars from a different better written show. In this one, they mean nothing.
The only reason she would care about her past lives at all is solely the fact that Aang restored her bending in season 1, which is an act that she didn't earn in the slightest and makes absolutely no sense within the realm of the show. If we're operating under Korra's attitude during most of season 2 then it DOES sorta make sense why she herself would give even a single shit about her past lives, but the show is trying to act like Korra cares because we the audience care which is a stretch in itself.
It's like that quote from Kylo Ren in the Star Wars sequels, "Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to."
Good point
Yeah, when you think about it the only investment from your audience in that scene is based on them having seen the original. If they haven't they're probably not going to feel anything or think much of it.
Came here to say exactly this.
Thing is. I don't hate the bold move or whatever. But Unalak? Really? I know the villains are often relative nobodies.
Doesn't help that all the kite stuff is lame and reductive to start
You are 3000% correct on the observation that the Avatars should have been erased in the opposite order. Not only does that make more sense, since the older avatars presumably have weaker ties to the present, but also from a writing perspective it's more a more edge of your seat progression like "oh shit, not Kioshi! Will they be able to stop him before they get to Aang?!"
Such a wasted dramatic moment
Probably chaper to animated since it was basically the same shot from season 1
Sorry, but Avatars are stored as a stack, in the Last-In-First-Out principle.
@@gazelle_diamond9768 the devs (Raava I guess?) really should have gone for a queue-like data structure.
@@nixel1324 I mean, both are shit, just use a freaking list or dictionary.
@@gazelle_diamond9768 Nah, a hashset would be faster.
11:10 So, Bumi having Nam flashbacks implies that there are serious horrors that just exist in their world. Serious enough that they sent an international peacekeeping force to address it, yet they wrote him as a bumbling idiot. I dare say, it would be more interesting if he was a jaded veteran, a hardened killer who plays the fool to hide his pain. It would also make his strained relationship with Aang make more sense. His choice to join the military, rather than uphold Nomad values, driving a wedge between them would have been amazing.
14:45 Seen too much anime to see that normally. Also raises the question of how he can pull out a piece of her soul. Bonded forever sounds like they are no long two distinct entities.
I actually hoped that they would make something of that scene with Bumi. He tells fantastical stories and everyone assumes that he's full of it, but here, he's not telling anyone a story so we assume that these are valid memories. So he either actually believes all the nonsense he spouts, or some of it may not be as nonsensical as we assumed. But no, he's just a sheet of cardboard and they needed him to look frightened for the plot, so that's what they drew on his face this episode.
Idk, I think that's actually what they're trying to do with him. I have a character that is, imo, Bumi-Done-Right, but I think there is some depth to him we just never see it on screen
11:10 oh so you mean Jong Jong, or any of the white lotus?
Technically Ravaa isn't a part of the avatars soul rather she's like a parasite or a symbiotic entity. Her only goal is to choose an avatar and latch onto them but in no way is it permanent
NOW ripping the soul of aang out of ravaa is a genuine soul question however og avatar shows us how it's possible to end the line there as that's when their souls are fully out and about
@@kerroseir4764 The United Republic Forces were international peacekeepers, URN has only been an independent country for six months.
"Jaded fool who hides his pain" is such an over done trope. I think Aang and OG Bumi show that there's nothing wrong with facing serious threats like the Fire Nation, but also being goofy sometimes. No need to turn New Bumi extra serious.
"Kaijunolocke"
Now that's a banger name lmfao
*Kaijunalaq
i can get behind that
Nuzlocke
@@kerroseir4764 I see that. I appreciate that.
@@kerroseir4764 *Nuzlaq
"Ok, Korra just had Raava ripped out of her, better cut back to the gang in the dementia fog" just sent me lmao, why is this season like this
shit was stupid, being an avatar for literaly thousands of lifetimes and all their power and knoweldge just goes to waste becasue they are "connected" to a white kite spirit able to be ripped out. Give me a break.
dude you hit the nail RIGHT on the head with the 'afraid of the show making it so Unalaq can bend all the elements' I was literally so scared of that bullshit happening the first time I watched this
Well that’s your problem
@@pn2294You really clicked the reply button and typed all that out and sent it?
@@pn2294Do you have a problem with what they said? All of us need to know..
@@indigo-one honestly yes
They’re making themselves upset for no reason
@@pn2294Who exactly is upset here? And why would it be for no reason? We need answers, Mr. Edgelord.
Vaatu: "nothing could stop this moment."
Except for, Korra not being a twat for half the season, not being easily manipulated by Unalaq, not meditating into the Spirit World to close a portal she didn't need to, and the writers not making everyone a dumbass for the sake of plot.
Or Overanalysing Avatar pausing the video to comment on it!
I probably wouldn’t have been stopped had Unalaq did the smart thing and just took Korra to the North Pole immediately after opening the southern portal, instead of wasting time in a southern occupation. He probably could’ve still done that but with Korra already far and out of the way around completely ignorant of it.
Ty
Don't forget forcing Mako into uncomfortable positions, him having the only braincell,and essentially needing to deal with a girl that has selective memory loss
Let's not add onto the fact that if she remembers the south pole and tenzin and unalaq then she remembers how disrespectful she treated mako and how her way of apologizing is to shove her face into his as if that's any way to properly apologize
To be fair he’s right. Nothing, not even logic or common sense could stop the writers from getting us to this moment
Commentating the moment Aang is errased from existence with "right in the aang" is probably the biggest laugh your channel has brought me yet.
It just caught me completely of guard...
Can't wait to use it with friends when talking about Korra
I really don't like the "killing off the previous avatars" thing for a few different reasons, it's largely kind of just a petty thing of I'm mad they're gone, but I do think it is an actually bad thing to do for the show:
Partly because they really haven't done much with the fact that the avatar has connection with and can commune with their past lives, Aang gave Korra some honestly kind of unimportant clues last season, which isn't a particularly cool thing for a past avatar to do, and then gives Korra her bending back after, which is definitely a big deal but like it's weird because he's seemingly there in the flesh energy bending her? We learn about Wan and I guess you could argue it's Wan telling Korra his story which is definitely meaningful but at best it kinda just feels like she's watching Wan do a powerpoint presentation, it doesn't really compare to the way that Aang had actual conversations with Roku and other avatars. Genuinely the best use of a previous avatar was the conversation between Aang and Tenzin, one that has nothing to do with the current avatar. So like it almost feels insulting to do very little with one of the coolest concepts from Airbender and then permanently remove it from the canon, but ironically, it doesn't end up being that big of a deal for Korra in practice, like yes it was absolutely a bad thing but it was barely being used before she lost it so we don't really notice the impact it should be having, it ends up feeling like it was just done for shock value honestly.
And then also I think it just does even more damage to the idea and coolness of the avatar spirit, on top of what the concept of Raava on it's own does already, this seems like Raava is "storing" each avatars distinct personality, which I guess isn't explicitly a contradiction of what we already knew but is very much a different vibe from how it was communicated to us prior, similar to the whole learning from the original benders and lion turtles thing. Like I certainly got the idea that it was a continuous spirit that is different people over the years and its combined self is added to through each life, one spirit that is an amalgamation of all the previous avatars, and then that was already changed by the addition of Raava, but you at least got the sense that it was maybe her spirit combined with every new life over the years especially seeing as Raava herself as a voice/personality is completely absent until this episode. Now it's a bunch of distinct spirits that Raava is just like, holding onto? I guess? Which is just way less cool and compelling and interesting to me. Then combining that with how the show treats the avatar state after this also, previously the avatar state was definitely a powerup, but it was a powerup because it was the combined skill and mastery of every previous avatar, but now that all those previous avatar's spirits are gone, the power gained from the avatar state should be gone too right? No, it's still just as powerful, but it's now just a literal arbitrary boost of her abilities, way way less cool.
Imagine the next avatar.. all he has to talk to is Korra.
What they said
@ladylagsalot1122 The past avatars felt sort of like family in the original series. They didn't talk down to him or speak in riddles, he was still a kid but they were like guardians or aunts and uncles to him. They gave him their wisdom and helped him when he struggled.
In Korra, Raava is more like a flash drive with Aang.doc and Roku.doc on it.
I was thinking something similar to your last point. That a big part of the power of the avatar as established in the first series is the past lives thing. They're an option for guidance, and when entering the avatar state, the power of all of them is available. The avatar has mastered all four elements thousands of times. So do the future avatars just suck now? Or was the avatar literally just Raava and the stuff we were told before about the reincarnation being important just a big lie?
@@orangesilver8 I feel like this occurred to them, that Wan and the first few avatars would be considerably weaker, so they depowered the current avatar so their OCs wouldn't be the worst
9:45 What's even worse is that when you think about it 10000 years isn't even that long. Assuming the average life span of an avatar is 100 years that would mean that there have only been 100 avatars. Even if you lowball it even more, assuming the average age of an avatar is 50 years, that would still make it only 200 avatars. I guess it's still a high number but in Atla it felt like the avatar lineage was something unfathomable, bigger than life. That's not even considering Kiyoshi lived for 230y and and Aang for 166
Roku even said "I have mastered the elements a thousand times in a thousand lifetimes"
That makes the 10000 thing even less likely
Yeah, it's been pointed out that Bryke can't math. Fans have pointed out many timeline flaws and plotholes.
Thats why i cant really take Korra seriously. So many things contradict the original one way or another. Or undermine it
Wait, hold on, you're right, this straight up makes no sense! There were WAY more avatars than 100.
In eastern cultures 10,000 means infinity, or an indescribable amount of time.
Kaijunalaq would hit the most devastating waist-high wave.
His waist is so high! He'd kill us all!
The waist high wave! Tsunami variation!
11:04
Imagine getting a second wind only to go 0-2 to a complete noob
I think the loss of the avatar state and the past lives is ultimately made worse by the fact that it even being possible is only because of the avatar in general being undermined by these two immense spirits existing in the first place. A completely new piece of lore introduced explicitly so that it could be the stakes for the fight, then quickly vaporized by the end of the season.
ehhh iirc it was already possible in the lore. Pathik told Aang that if he died in the avatar state, the reincarnation cycle would end and there would never be another avatar. That... weirdly jives with this, since it's the Raava state. The state in which Raava herself is actually vulnerable I guess?
@@KairuHakubijust because it makes sense, doesn’t make it good. We could get a whole season of Korra sitting on a bench not moving at all and we as fans can say „yeah, lore wise, nothing in canon is broken“ but is that what the story should to to be entertaining. It doesn’t matter if it makes sense if it just kind of comes out of nowhere and only exist for a short therm shock by never building up to it. Korra was never as interested in the lore and past avatars like Aang was and we as the fans where more hyped even still. So when Korra loses her connections and raava, we as an audience aren’t as invested since Korra never showed concern or connection to raava or the past avatars. She never talked about it or anything.
@@patrickzantomaster sure, but the assertion in question was that that made it worse because it wasn't that way before. just saying, there existed a way to lose the avatar state before.
@@KairuHakubi One that made sense; exposing the inner self, allowing it to be destroyed along with the body. Anyone *could* have done it, with the right power and skill.
This situation, on the other hand, is only possible due to the contrivance of the story where the villain just so happens to have that ability. If *anyone* else had been trying to conquer the north pole, it'd be a total non issue.
The entire season is set up for it, but it's ONLY for the shock value of the viewer, not to actually provide something for the characters to work with.
@@TheTolnoc come to think of it yeah, nobody but vaatu could just yank raava out of the avatar, could they.. but like, i think that's actually in its favor? that this isn't an occurrence that could just happen anytime.
Dark Iroh be like "Tea IS just hot leaf juice" 👿😡
Dark Iroh is truly Scary He hates Tea and Family... Oh wait thats just Azula.... Nah Dark Iro still isn as crazy as her. She needs to go down.
@@snintendog "I'm crazy, and I need to go down." - Dark Iroh, probably.
"coffee is best with a pinch of chocolate is best way to start the morning "
@@marley7868 "I should've nuked ba sing se."
Good video as always but I kinda wish you had taken more time to discuss what is one of, if not the most, controversial moment in Avatar lore. The killing off of previous avatar lives being a moment that has actual lasting impact is but one perspective on that moment that in my opinion is kind of a niche one. Because like, what lasting effects does it actually really have on the world past this? I’d argue opening the spirit portals fills that role much better, even if they fail to really capitalize on it in later seasons.
Korra had multiple times this season where she probably should have asked her previous iterations for help, but doesn’t. In fact, she doesn’t give a shit about them at all this season. Doesn’t communicate with them or talk about them or even think about them (except Wan, obviously). So it won’t really have any impact on the future of Korra, nor will it really affect the next avatars after her since they will have Korra to guide them.
When they kill Aang and them off, it is purely a visceral emotion from the viewer that, “hey, wtf, the writers just killed Aang”. There’s no emotion provoked for the actual plot and characters happening on screen. Korra hasn’t cared about them the entire season.
They could have written a billion different ways for Korra to be emotionally invested in her past lives. As it stands in season 2, it’s simply a spiritual affect she’s lost. But what if after Aang gave her bending back in the season 1 finale, we start season 2 off with her relying too heavily on her past lives? Then add in her self doubt she goes through this season, put in your idea of her struggling to control the avatar state, and you could easily write a compelling storyline where the deaths of past avatars actually impacts Korra and the story outside of the meta perspective of the viewer that Aang means a lot to them, and not anybody actually in the piece of literature we are watching.
If this had happened in ATLA, it would have been devastating because it would have seriously hurt Aang. Not because we care about Kuruk, or Yangchen, or whatever.
Having Korra be the last remnant of the avatar cycle is soo dumb
@@isaaccuevas1717 so is roku not killing the Firelord, each avatar has its biggest mistake
Are they even "dead"/destroyed, or are they just severed from Korra?
@@helixsol7171 they are gone
@@toasterowens8916 I don't think you get what IcyElement is saying. Roku dealing with Sozin is interesting because Roku has stake in it too, it's his best friend. But here, the show has given no indication Korra gives a shit, at all, about the past avatars. She has not spoken to any of them, asked for any advice or reflected on it in the slightest. This moment, like IceElement is saying, feels so unjust because there is no point for the characters in the show itself. It is just there to evoke a reaction in us, the viewers. And that is cheap. It's cheap like a jumpscare directly at the screen in a horror movie. It's playing at us, the viewers, instead of the characters in the show.
11:23 The cannibals live on Whaletail Island! The Dai Li intended to have the Gaang eaten to continue covering up the war!
Coming at this as a person who is very defensive of LoK, I never really liked the erasure of the past lives. It doesn't really feel as consequential as they want it to seem. Like, I feel like for most of seasons 1-2, the past lives are hardly used/mentioned at all outside of Aang, and going forward, losing them doesn't seem to really affect Korra as an Avatar all that much (at least once she refuses with Raava). If LoK was your first exposure to the franchise, you'd be forgiven for not even quite understanding why this event is so bad.
This is especially weird because in TLA, Roku explains that the Avatar State's power derives from the combined knowledge and perspective of all the other previous Avatars. So to me, losing them seems to enforce the idea that what makes the Avatar special is not necessarily all of that collective wisdom, but just being a special fusion of some guy and basically god. Which isn't bad at all, but definitely less interesting, especially since, by Roku's logic, the Avatar State shouldn't even really exist after this (or at least be far less powerful).
Idk, I'm probably just being pedantic, I just feel like my issue with this is deeper than "hurdur reincarnation cool." This show is delightfully frustrating like that
I like the idea that the foxes choose to hang out with “wisest dude around”
I defs agree with the whole Avatar state thing. Like in ATLA, when Aang went into the Avatar State, everyone including the audience, is like oh fuck-this ain’t good. He then usually destroyed whatever he was near, or caused some major environmental damage.
With Korra it just feels like she gets to make either the water or air tornado column things and her eyes glow. Very lame. It should be this cosmic thing that only gets activated when it absolutely has to be.
She could do the water spout thing in season one without the Avatar State, so it's even less impressive.
@@Xavior12 because she is a native master waterbender
As if that isn't underwhelming enough let's not forget how ridiculously weak it seems compared to Kyoshi's moving an island.
And even wan had the hall of all the elements. I feel like his first display of the avatar state was more powerful than anything Korra uses it for
All that said, I can understand why they wouldn't want to make the Avatar State a problem in LOK because they already explored that conflict through Aang's journey to mastery in ATLA. Even then, a comet-boosted Ozai couldn't even touch Avatar State Aang.
It makes me wonder what they really could have done to raise those stakes and create a proper challenge, at least at this point in the show's development.
A harder rule such as the one you suggest at the end would certainly have helped. Like how Aang's emotional state played a huge part in his early uses of the Avatar State.
14:35 was amazing. She lost in freaking 1 minute after activating the avatar state? Never thought about it.
Also I like November rain
6:13
This would be less a "Why doesn't every master waterbender do this literally all the time" if Mako and Bolin were at least standing on water
I kind of felt the exact opposite about the impact of losing all the past avatars. It had almost no emotional impact because korra was never shown to have any connection to the past avatars to being with. The only time the past lives thing ever mattered to korra is when aang shows to up at the end of season 1 to solve all her problems. She never connects with any of the avatars. She never even tries to connect with the any of the avatars except that one time while imprisoned. She's never even shown to be too bothered by the fact she can't connect with the past avatars. It would be one thing if she was shown be slowly building up to connecting with her past lives over the last 2 seasons, growing a kind of friendship with her past lives, only for it to be taken away at the end of season 2, but no. It was just "remember that thing she barely ever did? Well now she's never gonna do it. Oh and aang is gone now. Get fucked"
14:35
Korra really just stood there and didn't try her other bending until it was too late, huh
I wonder why she didn’t just stop being connected to Unalaq, she made the water arms and bound herself to him, so why couldn’t she just disconnect them?
Super-killing the protagonist of the most beloved thing they will ever make, for what is ultimately just shock value, really proves Bryke were replaced by skin-walkers between the two shows
Don’t worry it’s forgotten as fast as it happens
I personally don’t think it’s just shock value, I think it helped the story get better. It avoided the idea of Korra being able to have Aang solve all her problems in the season one finale.
Bryke was lost without Ehasz.
It's also a case of "they thought this was it for Korra"
90% of the writing flubs can be taken down to "Not knowing if their next episode will air let alone another season"
@@MrBrendan882 She didn’t even talk to Aang once in this whole season. She didn’t go out of her way to ask Aang or the other avatars for help this whole season.
There is no shot they don't retcon losing the past lives in the Earth Avatar show.
I think if it was up to me, I’d make it so Korra had to make an active effort to reconnect to them, but couldn’t because she was never very spiritual.
I really hope they don't do that because that's a massively impactful moment in the show, probably the one big thing to come out of season 2 that I could actually care about, It really felt like a heavy loss, it would make season 2 absolutely worthless if they just changed their mind about that decision. Also I think the lack of the past avatars could potentially be a great benefit for the new show, only being able to communicate with Korra and having limited knowledge could be cool, it'd also justify them having a weaker avatar state, which would require them having to become more spiritual than most avatars before them to compensate.
But seeing how they just decided to bring back the airbenders without much reasoning and pretty much just on a whim I wouldn't be surprised at all if they do something similar.
@@Voxalyst except it didn’t feel impactful. as korra didn’t really use the past avatars that much. It doesn’t really feel like anything impactful happened.
I think destroying the past lives is hated, not because its not a serious world-changing implication, I had my mind changed, I think you were right and it could be cool.
But Korra season 2 did not earn it. It destoryed a cool part of the lore, implicitly making its story more 'impressive' than airbender, but it didn't make it worthwhile.
Like smashing a priceless vase to make an artistic point about the desire to own fragile art, and how it was a destructive act but with a deeper meaning, versus smashing it because you think it makes a point about how angry you are.
The first one, you can be upset at the reason, but it was a reason, the second one is just dumb. Destroying the past lives could have worked, if the story this season wasn't a meanderings mediocre mess.
7:09 that makes perfect sense. In faft it would make that whole light in the darkness thing later make more sense too because it would be Unalaq's remaining humanity that allows Jinora to find light within Vaatu. You could've also taken the opportunity to make Unalaq a more morally complex character by playing up that humanity earlier on. Like maybe he really does love his kids or want spirits to be happy and that's what creates a vulnerability within Vaatu when they fuse. Instead of it just being a complete deus ex machina.
For all its faults, I do think the animation here should be praised. Korra doesn’t feel strong enough in the avatar state, but the actual motions are so fluid and nice to look at. I think this episode is the coolest waterbending has ever looked
"A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing"
@@Zaurthur nah. Something absolutely can be appreciated purely on a visual level, and I think this deserves praise for that at least.
I’d take poor animation with a fantastic story any day, but I can appreciate good animation even if it’s connected to a dumpster story
@@DerrickWilson-fm7vc that is a good paraphrasing of your original comment.
@@Zaurthur that’s good condescension.
@@DerrickWilson-fm7vc do you disagree?
3:16 ah yes my favorite technique from the being of all chaos and evil, *vines*
The vines are supposed to be spirits too, so UnaVaatu is just asexually reproducing all over his niece and Republic city...
Great worldbuilding
@@maskofthedragonwhy did you have to say this...? Why? This will forever be burned into my mind
Can't believe you linked that background sketch the haiku lady, you're amazing, basically this is why I'm subbed dude.
8:15 what I took from that scene in AtLA was Zhau drowned, dead. His damned spirit was then cursed to wander the fog for his crimes against humanity and the spirits. And its less his age more his fringing sanity we see in LoK.
I mostly agree with your takes here, but I have to say that when (most) people say "Korra is the worst avatar," I don't think they're mad at a fictional character for making dumb decisions. They're expressing that Korra constantly losing, making bad choices with huge ramifications, having an abrasive personality, and taking forever to grow from her mistakes makes her a character that's really hard to root for. This isn't Hamlet, Death Note, or Breaking Bad; this is a fantasy adventure show - we're supposed to like the main character, and her constant fuck ups makes that borderline impossible.
It’s honestly just sexism since all the things they complain about, Tenzin is guilty of as well
Her loosing and fucking up makes her struggles with responsibility and winning more tangible in season 3 or for since the threat of defeat is well known. Best case is when she got paralyzed but even before that she tries to do the right thing and gets punished for it either physically spiritually or mentally.
So her not being as good as aang at least in seasons 3 and 4 makes the plot more captivating because the red lotus are a real threat not just ppl she can fuck up in the avatar state quickly. The writing doesn’t allow for that as much in season 2 especially tho to be fair.
@pn2294 Good bait
@@pn2294 I'm not gonna pretend sexists don't exist, but this take is kind of nonsense. Tenzin isn't the main character, so it's not nearly as important that he's likeable and someone the audience wants to root for. He's also not the Avatar, so when people call Korra the worst one, Tenzin's not who she's being compared to, is she?
@@OrdinaryGatez Not sure how you can claim that her constant losing and fuck ups were written with the intention of having her grow from them in seasons 3/4, when the show was pitched to Nickelodeon as a 12 episode miniseries (season 1 only), and season 3 wasn't even approved until after season 1 finished airing.
8:03 in Yangchen duology, Yangchen is guided into the spirit world at age 11 for the first time with her sister Jetsun. However, whilst there they are attacked by spirits and Jetsun sacrifices herself to save her sister and her soul is lost to the spirit world. At age 17, Yangchen returns to the spirit world to find her sister and discovers her in the valley of lost souls, looking "exactly the same as she did when she first guided Yangchen into the Spirit World". (Direct quote from the Legacy of Yangchen) So it would appear the fog acts as a stasis field in the spirit world, so that's its victims cannot ever die and thus escape.
so... the librarian...
@@KairuHakubihe wasn’t in the fog of lost souls! He was in the library
@@jeniferjoseph9200 but zhao _did_ age a little, right?
@@KairuHakubi he could have wandered for years then stumbled into the fog
@@VisceralSupreme wandered in the ocean? XD yeah fair that just implies he was spared and THEN taken.
I don't know if this is a hot take but the finale of Legend of Korra season 2 is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in anything trying to take itself seriously, right but there with "Alan" from Jurassic Park III, and Leia hiding in Obi-Wan's trenchcoat in Kenobi episode 4.
18:48 It's morphin time!!! On a serious note, this feels right out of Power Rangers whenever the monster grows. I should also note that it's infuriating whenever Unalaq calls himself a dark Avatar because he's not a dark avatar HE CAN ONLY CONTROL ONE ELEMENT!!!!!!!
The Alan this was a dream & it represented the distance between Alan & the only real living not draconically chimeratized or animated dinosaur to take center stage in the framchise; a parrot!
PARROT IN A CAGE WITH NOTHING TO CHEW & NOWHERE TO FLY!
PARROT IN A CAGE WITH NOTHING TO CHEW & NOWHERE TO FLY!
PARROT IN A CAGE WITH NOTHING TO CHEW & NOWHERE TO FLY!
PARROT IN A CAGE WITH NOTHING TO CHEW & NOWHERE TO FLY!
(IRL the bird is fine I think? th-cam.com/video/_dgnV3g7f6M/w-d-xo.htmlsi=pUTI5fsKhI6OKqX0)
that's a video of him from 12 years ago.
It's also been very poorly set up what this "dark avatar" is meant to be. Will he just go around kicking every puppy he sees? Are people going to go crazy? Are dark spirits going to invade the world? Are humans going to invade the spirit world? etc
The idea that even after they win and take over the world they still gotta go find a couple lion turtles to be officially a dark avatar
@@thegreatscribbles960 But Unalaq stills states he's the dark avatar even before he's able to do that.
Genuinely one of the most empty ideas I’ve ever heard “dark avatar”. I still don’t even know wtf they mean by that
It's been years since I've seen Koora, and I normally don't have any strong emotions towards it, but MAN...every time I see the past avatars being killed off, I get so fucking mad. It feels so disrespectful
if you can't handle fictional charachters dying how are you gonna do when your relative do
Honestly, if they wanted to give Korra an "always available power up" they could have said something like "Korra's lesser connection to the spirits makes her avatar state weaker and thus she has more control over it." You know, instead of the forest fire that was Aang, you have the campfire that's starting to spread a bit too far that is Korra. And then give her the real big forest fire Avatar state when Raava wakes up, or whatever. And also explain that Raava never spoke to the other avatars because she was in a largely dormant state recovering and resting to conserve her spiritual power for this day. I think adding both of those would have been such good tings for the show to do. But that's just me.
Any future avatar projects involving the aang is gonna feel wierd knowing THIS is his fate
Legend of Kora need a reboot. So many good ideas, but executed terribly most of the time.
The parallels between this and Boba Fett are startling.
I always felt like killing the past avatar’s was just there for shock value. Like just because you want to surprise the audience and “subvert expectations” that doesn’t mean it’s going to be good.
What are you talking about? What purpose do the past lives serve?
"Hey here's that thing you loved. It's dead now" really feels like it could fit as a description of the writer's strategy
@@dustymooneye5858 well considering the Netflix series, getting rid of them was a good thing
Agreed. On my first watch when it premiered, I’d assumed it was a petty “SHUT UP about Aang, we don’t want people to keep asking about Aang, this is a new show, fine, you know what? Aang’s dead. Happy now?”
Now though, it strikes me more as shock value. Because as someone further down mentioned, Korra barely even interacts with her past lives. I mean, Aang rarely did either, but there was more of a sense that they were there at least.
It’s just annoying. It feels like the most boring “twist” they could have chosen. Why make your world less rich and unique if you’re not even going to do anything with the “twist”?
@@pn2294 Well it made the world and the avatar themselves feel unique, but what purpose was there to killing them off including Aang the protagonist of the show before.
Dude the bear face is still a patron?!!
That guy is a legend.
5:47 That's a funny head canon considering the Spirit Mushroom in this episode his voiced by Azula's voice actress lol
18:56 Kaijunavatu!? Damn how has no one else thought of that before now!
the issue, imo, with the whole past lives being destroyed should of meant the avatar state was now nothing. She shouldn't have the avatar state
but Wan had no past lives either since he was the first Avatar. Isn't Korra just technically the second first Avatar now in some weird stupid way?
Should have*
But I agree, The avatar state was originally presented as every past avatar acting through the current one, with no past avatars it should logically just be Korra on her own. But then beginnings aready went out of it's way to say fuck that, since we see Wan as the first avatar get a power-up from it. This season just sucks so much.
I understood it as the past lives only added their experiences and techniques to the current avatar when in the avatar state. ie had aang's air ball not been passed down then korra would only have access to it in the avatar state. Iroh said himself in atla book 2 that `The combination of the 4 elements in 1 person is what makes the avatar so powerful`. Wan couldn't use all 4 at once until he fused with raava. Which means that now korra's avatar state is nothing since there's no shared techniques and experiences. (since it still does give a power up in later seasons though maybe it comes from next episode's deus ex machina)
Mike: Yeah, which I'm glad we were able to do here, 'cause my one like minor, I don't know if it's regret, but the mo-you know, Korra loses her connection with the past Avatars in this episode, and it was like, we didn't really have her, it wasn't like she was chatting with Aang this whole season, or Roku, or anyone, and I was worried that maybe like the emotional impact of, you know, her losing her connection maybe wasn't gonna be as strong 'cause she hadn't been connecting with them a lot, you know?
Bryan: Fear not, Mike, 'cause everyone was plenty emotional; in fact, I think they-they are really mad at us.
What a couple of hacks
Hacks? Why are you so angry bro. It's a cartoon for emos 🤣🤣🤣
@@JojoJere???
What is this a quote from? Like what's the source of the interview, I'm curious?
@@FlumpyTripod
It's the dvd commentary
@@maskofthedragon Ah okay thank you
5:36 To add on to this, can't water benders bend snow? Couldn't they have just had him like, riding a mound of snow instead? Would've sold him being too lazy to walk without breaking any magic rules.
8:20 My best guess is the fog-spirit thing is something that like, traps your soul for eternity. Like the Dead Marshes in TLotR. You're dead, but you're still there in a way. Of course that just opens up the "what is the afterlife in Avatar" rabbit hole even more...
Fairness to the show, I think Raava might only be talking because it's Harmonic Convergence
also I think 'darkness' is pretty easy to read between the lines of.. it means raava will be allpowerful and is going to destroy stuff and hurt people, and all the spirits will remain in their frenzied state, and everything's gonna be a big ol bummer.
Then this is one of the few times where "TELL NOT SHOW" should be in effect. I think a large part of the reason I hate the great spirits and the Wan episodes is you have this stuff like the portals fusing Raava to the Avatar and shit like "only talking due to Harmonic Convergence" and they never explain THAT while going out of their way to explain stuff we either didn't need explanations for or already had pretty satisfying explanations.
@@invidatauro8922 I dunno, maybe this is me at the time really trying to defend the show, but I found it easy enough to understand. It's not simple in a good way, but it is simple. They show us how spirits can be good or bad, and bad stuff can make spirits more bad, and we get a season of bad ones attacking people.. it seems pretty clear. if we let everything go bad, lotsa bad spirits will totally wail on everyone. And if we don't, only once in a while will that happen.
But ravva talks to korra later in season 4 when it's no longer harmonic convergence.
@@rosekafe7063 to be fair, raava is ALL she got in book 4
6:15 Glad to see that there is a Waterbending version of the “You dont get to play anymore” Earthbending move. Really warms my heart to see benders of one element learning from another :’)
Watching Korra go into and out of the avatar state just casually places zero weight on it whatsoever, it just feels awful to see Korras avatar state, the power culmination of 10k years, look weaker than Wans avatar state, the first avatar. If they wanted to have Korra lose, I think if they were to just make Vaatu that much more powerful to match they could have gone through with the destruction of all the previous avatars seamlessly
The thing that bugs me most about korra's fight in this episode is that she keeps going in and out of the avatar state for no reason. It makes the fight feel less dynamic. Imagine if during aangs fight with ozai, he kept going in, and out of it, it just feels weird.
On Vaatu calling Korra “Raava”, I like to think that she is the first Avatar in the last few thousand years to have accessed Wan’s memories and knows what he’s talking about. The last few dozen avatars that even wandered by his tree just thought he was a confused ranting spirit and kept walking to whatever Spirit World thing they were doing.
That's so funny to think about
"Ah, Raava, you have come. Is the convergence early or are you here to gloat?"
"...Who are you? I'm just looking for the guy who stole my wifes face."
@@CraftingMenace "Raava? Raava, don't you fucking ignore me. Wait, where are you going? Come back!"
@@vicenteabalosdominguez5257 Vaatu: “I shall cover the Earth in ten thousand years of darkness when I defeat you, Raava!”
Kyoshi: “Big talk coming from a kite stuck in a tree. You wanna come out and back that up?”
Vaatu: “GIVE ME FIVE HUNDRED YEARS-“
Kyoshi: I’ll take that as a no.
@@vicenteabalosdominguez5257 "Who the hell is Raava? Is this your weird spirit game where if I answer to it we become two tangled up kites?"
0:33 Counter point, air might be very hard to see for them so its harder to dodge and predict.
Fax and we see fire wouldn't work all that well anyway from Wan
If Korra chose to use fire bending instead of air bending in 99% of situations she would be the strongest avatar😭😭💀
"look man she went through a very tough time learning airbending it means a lot to her okay you just gotta respect it"
Which is ironic considering she's basically a Fire Avatar. All she's ever doing is firebending. In Season 3 she water bends SIX TIMES. But the one time she needed to pull out a kill move (Which as someone not upholding ALL of the Air Nomads traditions should be relatively serious but doable) she pulls her punch and gets thousands of people inside of her killed for it.
I fucking hate that they get rid of all avatar connections. Since the Air bender it was established that this connection goes for thousands of years and is something that connects all avatars from past and the future but no, let's throw it out of the window. Let's throw out the only thing that connects the protagonists of different shows in this universe to rise stakes in 1 fucking season.
You know what also connects to the past Airbenders? Tenzin
The sad thing is, it doesn't even raise the stakes.
@@jedidiah375 so that describes a lot things in fiction
@@pn2294 it's a sad ocurrence when writers fail to raise the stakes and only succeed in making their world feel less interesting.
@@vicenteabalosdominguez5257 well, what would raise the stakes?
„Well actually it’s 9877 and 28 days years of Darkness but 10000 sounds cooler”
-Raava
I think the added issue of erasing Aang and all the past Avatars is basically 2 parts:
The first is it seems to be a retread of Korra Ep1, "I'm the Avatar now, you have to deal with it."
And 2, Korra just isn't a good show. It has good moments, but overall, it isn't as well written, so for this show to basically erase anything that matters from the previous show, is a slap in the face.
It's like Disney's Star Wars Sequels. Episodes 1-6 feel pointless because Episodes 7-9 the Empire and The Emperor are still alive, so nevermind all the previous characters, they couldn't get the job done and any accomplishments actually don't mean anything because the victories didn't last.
Also it kills off the characters in the lamest way possible. So it's kinda thrown in there just for the sake of shock.
It's just the question of what's worse.
Luke getting character assassinated and then dying saving people.
Or
Aang doing nothing all season only to say some stuff to tenzin, then dying.
@@somethingclever4297 I think I can honestly say they are both equally shit and I guarantee the defenders of both decisions have a strange amount of overlap.
@@invidatauro8922 i believe the overlap is not having media literacy
Who taught uno all the bending techniques ? Aang and Wan needed a whole arc (and also Aang more than a hundred past avatars). Dark Unalaq got it instantly.
Vaatu fusing with unalaq should have meant an instant loss for them both.
“You don’t fight a hurricane or a forest fire: you just try and get out of the fucking way” 😂😂
16:25
“He did a cartwheel!” in that voice had me dying lmao
8:05 I think this is supposed to be this universe's version of Hell and Zhao's soul was sent here after he was killed.
18:51
The fandom didn't name him that
That dumbass name is said during the show itself in the recap at the start of book 3
I think the issue I have with destroying the past Avatar's are a few things.
I think ATLA's way of exploring the past through the modern lenses of the show we're watching was so cool and way cooler than the little if nothing we got from Korra. So storywise, we are stagnant in this regard. Not saying there simply can't be stories about the other Avatar but one of the coolest scenes was Kyoshi possessing Aang and telling the world "Yep, I killed him"
Another thing was how the world works. It's unclear if the Avatar is the only person to Reincarnate but we know they do because not only to their past lives make them stronger but also communicate with them. Getting rid of past lives feels wrong because you're basically destroying a spiritual memory. I don't like the weight of it because it neuters the Avatar as well as makes the idea of reincarnation as a whole feel less spiritual and far more physical.
Also I don't think Raava contained Korra's past lives. They were all HER lives just different from what Raava is. MY issue is that attacking Raava destroys the lives in the first place.
So, let me get this straight. Korra, who has been the avatar her entire life, has mastered 3 elements and is competent at the 4th, combined with Raava, who has been fused with hundreds of avatars over the course of 10000 years, can't take on Vaatu, who has presumably fused for the first time only moments ago, to a person that has only mastered waterbending?
And Vaatu has been trapped since their last fight. So I doubt that he has gained much experience.
And in the last fight he lost an avatar who didn't have the past lives and beat him 5 seconds after becoming the avatar.
@@somethingclever4297 man when you think about its pretty bad
I disagree a bit with his point of “be mad at the writers if anything” instead of Korra. I think it’s better for people to have bad feelings about fake things than real people who they can actually harm in real life like sending death threats or hate online.
I genuinely HATE this episode. If there was one thing that should have been at the very top of the Writer's Bible for an Avatar show, in multicoloured lettering, underlined and surrounded by flashing lights, it was NEVER DO A DARK AVATAR. I think it's best to pretend this appalling season doesn't exist.
There are two types of blunders
1. Why did that character do that 😮 (Like when Zuko betrays Iroh)
2. Why did the writers make that character do that? I'm going to kms 🤬🤬🤮🤮😭😭😱😱😥😥 (Like when they destroy the Avatar state)
A beautiful explanations of the difference between a Character Fuck Up and a WRITING Fuck Up.
I'm still enjoying these analyses. It's nice to hear a different perspective, as people focus on very different things. I don't usually notice when there's a new bending move that breaks the balance of the system, so it's interesting to see you point those out. The whole "permanently breaking the connection with past Avatars" thing, though, _really_ bothered me when they did it, and to be honest, it still does! I can't fathom why the writers would cut out such a huge chunk of their world's history, that has been the basis of so many good stories and is a huge part of what made The Last Airbender interesting and unique. I try not to be irrational about it, but it left me with a feeling of "why even bother now?"
You mentioned last episode that Raava robs the agency of goodness from our protagonists but it's worse than that. The Avatar state was supposed to be the culmination of each past Avatars experiences. It's supposed to be so powerful each passing Avatar added their skills to the wealth of knowledge of training. The idea that Raava is super powerful and that what makes the Avatar powerful robs all the hardwork every previous Avatar added. It's made worse by killing all the previous Avatars because it further cements that none of their power was needed
I saw someone say "Well, it's just them adding their experience, so it's still fine" but the issue there is it certainly seemed like Wan and Raava were about as powerful as Aang was in the state with no experience outside of themselves, so I feel like that doesn't work.
4:18 I like to imagine that Dark Iroh is just Iroh transforming into Buff Iroh from when he escaped in The Day of Black Sun 💪
Honestly, I don't mind killing off the past lives, its whatever. But I can't help but feel that together with the industrialisation, new tech and now the reset Avatar cycle my interest in the world beyond Korra is gone. Now, I'd rather see what the world was like long before even the Avatars we know off because the continuity of the world is broken before I got a good feel for it.
Personally, I think destroying the past avatars is a sign that the writers had no good ideas and should have stopped. It's lazy writing that doesn't add anything to the world, only removing something that made avatar unique. If it was the culmination of a well written season, maybe I could forgive it. But no, instead they gave us a shoddy, sometimes incoherent season with the goal of subtracting from the story without adding anything of value. (And yes, I feel what happens to the spirits in the next episode is another removal of something that makes the world interesting. Though that's mainly down to Korra changing the spirits, plus the fact that they don't do anything interesting with the spirits moving into the spirit world after this imo.)
I think it creates a problem of Korra no longer being able to rely on past lives. It is also not completely the writers' faults because Nickelodeon forced more seasons than they planned.
@@Sakurasan2023
Yeah, but she only communicated with prior Avatars once. Maybe if it happened later or she had more meaningful interactions I would agree. Same with the idea of her losing her bending. She/we should have more time to feel those repercussions for longer, but that was solved 10 minutes later.
@@Sakurasan2023 You can only blame a studio for so much, sometimes it is the authors fault. Nobody gave the likes of High Guardian Spice any leeway when that show had a bunch of production problems with the studio as well.
@alexanderrobins7497 at least the past life problem is a long-term consequence. It is fair that Korra didn't use her past lives a lot. However, without them, Korra would have died halfway through book 2
@brandonlyon730 I never heard of high guardian spice. You are going to have to fill me on that one. It does feel like the studio did set Korra to fail. For instance, for Korra wanting help from her past lives, she wanted Aang's guidance in book 3 when it became the choice was of the Airbenders or her own life at stake. I think she really wanted some guidance to get through her ptsd and couldn't get the help.
I actually love the cartwheel tho, it matches bolins bending style perfectly with his whole "light on ur feet" mentality, also lowkey foreshadows him lavabending. (tbh my headcannon is that lava bending is a firebending/earthbending feat inspired by waterbending's fluidity...) like ghazan's bending style follows waterbending-like movement but is in essence earthbending and firebending. (LOK) Metalbending follows in suite as well with the waterbending style and fluidity but is just rigid earthbending...
I dunno, to me, killing the Avatar Cycle would be like killing the Force in Star Wars.
You’ve destroyed this MASSIVE component of what makes your story and world unique and interesting, and most importantly, cool. Like seriously, the Avatar Cycle and State are just fucking sick. Hell, it’s in the damn name.
Like you’ve still got lightsabers, and in Avatar’s case you’ve still got bending (the other iconic component) but a lot of the soul is gone.
That being said, I think it could’ve be an absolutely sick moment story wise, if the show had earned it. Put it later (like maybe Season 3), have Korra regularly talk to her past lives and rely on them (especially Aang), have her master her spirituality, then take it all from her. It would have landed the same way Aang dying did in Season Two of ATLA.
But ultimately, even if it was masterfully written, I still don’t think it’d be worth it. You lose too much. And you can’t recover from it without looking like a total hack.
Don’t kill the Force man.
you did make some good points about the past lives are being destroyed. I still cannot like that decision. It's such a special part of the character of the avatar so just have it gone like that is really sad and gets rid of story possibilities in the future. Probably one of my least favourite things about Korra as a show
Man I miss when Avatar was about something, now its all just "I'M A FIRIN MA LASER"
Just like being a fan of Naruto.
I see you with the old meme reference
“You cannot win”
* in SpongeBob narrator voice* “one minute, ten seconds and twelve milliseconds later”
*unalaq winning *
6:40 But like you said Vaatu just got curbstomped just as fast as when he was fighting Wan. Maybe it could have been expressed better but almost being sealed away for 10,000 years again might make you rethink your position on humans.
The big difference, I feel, is that Vaatu is not a person. He is an unfathomably ancient spirit that literally embodies the concept of evil. If there is anything that should never deviate from those principles, it is him.
We as humans think 10,000 years is a long time, but it might well be a blink of an eye to Vaatu. Why compromise and act like Raava when he can just do what has worked for millions, maybe billions of previous fights?
@@rakshithanand8262evil compromises just as much as good does. Just because it’s been happening one way for a non specific long period of time doesn’t mean that it can literally never change by even the slightest iota.
How did you comment two weeks ago
@@sxrub3310 Probably some members early access system- he does mention the 'two weeks ahead' patreon perk at the end of the video.
And he didn't even fuse at the first opportunity he first did the fight and then got packed up real quick in the avatar state and then went crawling to unalaq
18:43 "You're telling me Jinora can do this..." I always understood it as, Jinora can do things that day because of Harmonic Convergence. She trains and becomes more proficient with her spirit powers, but she never again does the things she did in these episodes.
I'm so happy next episode is the wierdest in the whole show and then we can move on to the Red Lotus
Man, just the simple switch of having the last past-lives avatar to be destroyed be Aang instead of Wan sent an unexpected pang of sadness through me. That could have been a great moment and with such a simple change; imagine the shot lingers on his face for a moment longer and we get a very brief musical suggestion in the score of "The Avatar's Love" or something equally tragically nostalgic. I love this channel, keep up the good work!
My biggest issue with the 10,000 years thing is that Roku says, "I have mastered the elements 1000 times in 1000 lifetimes", leaving each lifetime to be 10 years if we take it at face value. Which is made even worse by the fact that that all the avatars we see have definitely lived for more than 10 years. Which is a nitpick, but it has always bothered me a lot.
I don't know why you'd take that line at face value in the first place. That "1000" is clearly meant to just mean "a lot of times"
@@NotaWalrus1 that, or he just rounded up
Great point
Oh yeah. I totally forgot about that
@@NotaWalrus1 Thats fair, but with that in mind, we still see an absurd number of statues, and even if we assume there was 300 avatars since that feels like "a lot of times" 33 years on average, and I could go lower and say there had to have been at least 200 from all the statues we see, and then that's 50 years each on average. Don't get me wrong, it is absolutely a nitpick, just an observation I found that I feel is pretty amusing to think about.
There's so many things that were botched in this season, wow...
Like you said, they could've taken this season to have Korra develop the Avatar State and her connections with her past lives. That could've made them getting erased in the end actually feel like a genuine character moment because it hurts her, not just a fairly cheap shock to the audience who watched ATLA. There's very little consequence to Korra directly because she barely had a connection with these people, doing that properly could've had a huge emotional payoff with lasting consequences on her character. While in the actual show, it technically is a "lasting consequence", it would've been so much better if she actually had a bond with these people. It would've felt a lot more respectful and organic to the previous show instead of making it feel like they threw away the lore and world for shock value. Reversing the order would make even more sense then too, since with a proper season of building a relationship with him while mastering the Avatar State, Korra could've viewed Aang similarly to how Aang viewed Roku, and saving that for the end would increase the tension a lot as it happens.
With the whole "you can't have the character be a force of nature the whole time" thing, that's a great potential reason for her to work on it more in this season, but it also would've made the whole Dark Avatar thing make more sense. If it was built up from the beginning with Unalaq, maybe having him studied various disciplines in preparation to gain Avatar powers, you could have a full-scale fight between the two without feeling like you needed to nerf the ability since they'd be on fairly equal ground (and you could just say Vatu's increased power could make up the difference in experience), and destroying the past lives could've been their way of lowering the power that's directly in line with what was stated in ATLA: it enables you to use the strength of all of the past lives together at once. It would've been a great chance to nerf the ability in a way that made sense in the world, so that they had more flexibility for the future villains and scenarios.
You can really feel the limitations of the shorter seasons hit here, the entire spirit world journey felt like it should've been in a different episode but had to happen alongside the other world-shaking events because they didn't have enough space. It's pretty unfortunate because I like the scenario and the character moment at the end with Tenzin was outstanding, it just felt out of place.
I know it gets a lot better from here, but man seeing how much they missed on this one was really unfortunate.
5:55 nice touch in the top right
15:50 he didn’t even try to check and see if any airbenders had somehow gotten in there? They literally had the site that jinora and korra entered through. What if an airbender was stuck in there this whole time??
Now I personally agree that the Doylist reasoning for making Korra's Avatar State weaker is because of the writing oversight that having permanent access to it in its unaltered state would absolutely erase any level of conflict Korra runs into, and S1 and S2 already have a problem bagging the MCs basically every other fight.
But as a prodigy bender who thinks she can solve every problem by punching it, it makes sense for an over-reliance on the Avatar State to bite her in the ass and result in her getting cocky. Someone like her would totally go "Avatar State, I win" and then just. Assume they have the power to do anything because that's what she's probably been told all her life. It's similar to her approach with learning airbending
As opposed to an avatar like Aang. When he couldn't control it, it was monstrous because it was a power beyond him, and when he could, it was monstrous because he had the discipline to utilize it effectively
The thing with the destruction of the past lives is that it wasn't property set up. It just... happens. they never tell you "hey your communication with the previous avatars is in danger. We must stop this from happening". Coming from a season with untangible stakes this could've helped the urgency of stopping the evil guy I forgot his name.
Unalak is a strong bender and mako and bolin have mostly fought goons or pro benders at this point. Pro bending is a sport and much like a boxer might struggle in a real life fight against a strong opponent they struggle against Unalak. Unalak doesn't care about any pro bending rules so the 2 are fighting completely out of their comfort zone unprepared against an unfair opponent with unknown strength and moves so despite them having the strength to probably beat him they really struggle in the mind game. Pretty realistic Unalak could 1v2 them in his turf
'Everyone you stay, you stay in the fog prison' bro got me with the delivery of that line
Dark iroh is the man of my dreams and nightmares
The biggest issue with Korra losing to Unalaq is that she was fighting in the avatar state the whole time meaning she had access to the knowledge of a thousand avatars (including kyoshi) but somehow lost to a guy that by the standards of the show isn’t even that mind blowing of a waterbender.
8:02 but he was drowned, & he is drowning, as a spirit lost forever, drowning in the misty murky waters of the demential bogs.
I like to think that harmonic convergence making Rava's influence stronger over her avatar, makes sense. Like how aang could only communicate with the most recent avatars
I never understood why over the supposed 10,000 years of “light” Rava hasn’t regained her strength. Why is it that she is always the weaker one? That doesn’t really imply that there is a balance.
My headcanon for the fox following Iroh was that since the library fell into deep sand. With now no way out to fetch scrolls for the Owl. The Owl simply let them go (or kill them since idk if the Owl had access to the spirit realm) and somehow someway they just found each other. Since Iroh has a kind soul (still a war criminal by my book, but had a change of heart) the fox and probably many other spirits befriended The greatest war general the fire nation has ever had
Never thought about it until you brought it up. All this simply flashed in my head like instantly
5:20 kinda shocked how seemingly everyone including OA missed the most important moment in the entire series... *in OA's PA voice* "NOT A FULLLL MOON."
What really weirds me out about the whole "Past lives are destroyed" thing is that like, it treats Raava like a storage unit of every Avatar.When an Avatar dies, they just chill inside Raava forever. Instead of like, being a spiritual connection to your previous lives, a connection to a cycle of reincarnation. Because now it's just "Nah, it's jut Raava inside a new body and she contains all the memories. She lets you talk to these different people" and it instantly drains everything interesting and larger than live about the Avatar cycle
Once again, i am just going to mention. Korra could have closed one of the portals during the time it took for the whole convergence spectacle to occur. Now, with a few weeks of thought, i will admit it would be likely that if it were the case, the writers would have said that one portal being open could have forced the other one open too. But that would have made the whole thing of breaking the north portal's shell open needles. But then again how would they have known it'd open on it's own, so it's a catch 22 sort of thing
I'm glad someone else takes umbridge with the fact that Vaatu even can pull Raava out of Kora. That was always so dumb to me, because both spirits should be fused with their hosts at that point.