Effectively what you are saying is that you want the criminal justice system to be more thoughtful and considerate of all the participants in it, perpetrators and victims alike. Considering that the existing system is one where competition is obvious and rampant and incentives for getting convictions, never mind the ego-drive to be successful may interfere with genuine justice, and that said system is well entrenched, I got two words for you: Lotsa luck.
This is great and all, but I feel like most of the people in favour of retributive justice don't care. I argued with someone the other day who was *all about* the notion that you become no longer human when you commit murder and don't deserve or warrant any sympathy. The people in favour of retributive justice *like* these flaws.
Rape is simultaneously one of the harder crimes to prosecute and one of the retributions most accepted. People today would be happy to torture rapists to no end and think it virtuous.
I think rape cases are unfortunately very complex due to their severity. I too wonder thogh why it gives such a strong a feeling of justice to imagine the torture of a rapst. Maybe because of the consideration of the victim - but there is probably more to it than just empathy... difficult subject
Great video! I agree, the idea of retributive justice always bothered me. I understand the human desire to inflict harm on those who hurt you, but to base society on these primal desires, that I don't understand. I've always been told that the West is more civilized and avanced then the rest of the world, but it often seems to me that all we do is claim the moral high ground to punch down.
(I wasn't sure where else to put this...) Yo, Steve! I'm @ickllepicklle on Twitter and I think you automatically blocked me because I follow some 'Rationals'. I myself used to be a bit of an 'Anti-SJW', but these days I only follow those guys to see what's going on with them. Could you unblock me? Thanks. You're a very thoughtful and kind man, and I wish I had re-subscribed sooner.
Rabbi Zyklon Brausebadstein I can't believe I didn't notice until now that your profile is a Holocaust 'joke'. Okay. I think I'm just not going to respond after this because I doubt you'll actually consider what I have to say. You seem like you're only here to troll.
You put it right when you say the core concept is a wrong one. While a criminal should see consequences for his or her actions - we should be mindful that the punishment should be beneficial to society. You lock someone up who otherwise could be dangerous - if not, a fine or community service would be more appropriate. Mandatory mental health care is the exact same (with or without locking them up, in a seperate facility from ther other criminals) for those who were mentally ill when committing crime. That said, jail time is insanely long in the USA. Someone who commits murder is likely going to get life. That does make that person a burden to society (prison cost, unable to work, not able to pay back loans, etc) for the rest of their lives. A justice system would deal appropriate prison time, promote good re-entry into society, and prevent additional crime. Besides - we all know that punishment doesnt prevent crime - instead its the chance to get caught that prevents crime. Doesnt matter if jaywalking is punished by a 1000$ fine; you look both ways for officers or police cars before crossing. If there s an officer next to you, if its a 191$ fine (max fine in California), you wont do it.
Why is jaywalking a crime to begin with? In Belgium, you're only required to use a pedestrian crossing if there's one within 30 meters of your current position. So instead of looking left and right for officers, we look left and right for cars.
ahouyearno And in Belgium would it be ok if you crossed the street not at a pedestrian crossing but within 30 meters, or is it against the law as well? But maybe we should use some common sense here, and I'll answer your question. Why is jay walking a crime to begin with? Given that 4000 people are killed with another 100k injured each year the law try's to stop that. Also realize that its enforced (or loosely enforced in smaller cities) in bigger cities or more congested cities due to all the traffic and people. I don't know about the OP but I've never looked both ways for cops when jay walking, only for cars. Also realize a crime isn't always a huge thing as it could be a minor crimes like littering is a crime and loitering, which I'd be sure to say no one looks for cops when doing such things if they were to do so.
Uncommon Sense_360 Just giving jaywalking as an example. Pick running a red light, littering or whatever you like. If the chance is high you will get caught, people tend to follow the rules. If the chance is low, people do some outrageous things...
And as has been pointed out since the 1600’s when you Jail people for petty offenses Jails become schools of crime and reinforce the “criminal” identification and the likelihood the victim of the justice system will view themselves as pathologized and “at odds” with society
Not by killing the murderer that’s for sure. Interviews with the families of homocide victims overwhelmingly are just made more upset when the state kills the one who killed their loved one. They often want it initially but our immediate reactions are base
Scandinavian society doesn't seem nearly as diverse as ours, though. I wonder how that concept would go over if their society were not quite as overwhelmingly Scandinavian.
Aries73 if you have a system that works so good, I don't think it matters if you plug in diversity. Humans are humans and under the best social democracies, foreigners tend to integrate best. I live in Germany which is incredibly diverse. The systems we have here work for everyone. They work so good, we can carry the syrian refugee crisis without too much effort. The same will be true for the scandinavian justice model. If it works for scandinavian humans, it works for humans.
End for profit prisons
Effectively what you are saying is that you want the criminal justice system to be more thoughtful and considerate of all the participants in it, perpetrators and victims alike. Considering that the existing system is one where competition is obvious and rampant and incentives for getting convictions, never mind the ego-drive to be successful may interfere with genuine justice, and that said system is well entrenched, I got two words for you:
Lotsa luck.
This is great and all, but I feel like most of the people in favour of retributive justice don't care. I argued with someone the other day who was *all about* the notion that you become no longer human when you commit murder and don't deserve or warrant any sympathy. The people in favour of retributive justice *like* these flaws.
Rape is simultaneously one of the harder crimes to prosecute and one of the retributions most accepted. People today would be happy to torture rapists to no end and think it virtuous.
I think rape cases are unfortunately very complex due to their severity. I too wonder thogh why it gives such a strong a feeling of justice to imagine the torture of a rapst. Maybe because of the consideration of the victim - but there is probably more to it than just empathy...
difficult subject
Great video! I agree, the idea of retributive justice always bothered me. I understand the human desire to inflict harm on those who hurt you, but to base society on these primal desires, that I don't understand. I've always been told that the West is more civilized and avanced then the rest of the world, but it often seems to me that all we do is claim the moral high ground to punch down.
People with power should not be able to commit crimes with absolute immunity.
Forgiveness and reconciliation are not the same.
It's like Red said, "They send ya here for life, that's exactly what they take."
(I wasn't sure where else to put this...) Yo, Steve! I'm @ickllepicklle on Twitter and I think you automatically blocked me because I follow some 'Rationals'. I myself used to be a bit of an 'Anti-SJW', but these days I only follow those guys to see what's going on with them. Could you unblock me? Thanks. You're a very thoughtful and kind man, and I wish I had re-subscribed sooner.
Rabbi Zyklon Brausebadstein He did!
Rabbi Zyklon Brausebadstein I can't believe I didn't notice until now that your profile is a Holocaust 'joke'. Okay. I think I'm just not going to respond after this because I doubt you'll actually consider what I have to say. You seem like you're only here to troll.
I REALLY want to hear more about restorative justice.
thank you again for making these videos,may you please make more videos like these about different aspects on criminology
You put it right when you say the core concept is a wrong one.
While a criminal should see consequences for his or her actions - we should be mindful that the punishment should be beneficial to society. You lock someone up who otherwise could be dangerous - if not, a fine or community service would be more appropriate. Mandatory mental health care is the exact same (with or without locking them up, in a seperate facility from ther other criminals) for those who were mentally ill when committing crime.
That said, jail time is insanely long in the USA. Someone who commits murder is likely going to get life. That does make that person a burden to society (prison cost, unable to work, not able to pay back loans, etc) for the rest of their lives.
A justice system would deal appropriate prison time, promote good re-entry into society, and prevent additional crime.
Besides - we all know that punishment doesnt prevent crime - instead its the chance to get caught that prevents crime.
Doesnt matter if jaywalking is punished by a 1000$ fine; you look both ways for officers or police cars before crossing. If there s an officer next to you, if its a 191$ fine (max fine in California), you wont do it.
Why is jaywalking a crime to begin with?
In Belgium, you're only required to use a pedestrian crossing if there's one within 30 meters of your current position.
So instead of looking left and right for officers, we look left and right for cars.
ahouyearno And in Belgium would it be ok if you crossed the street not at a pedestrian crossing but within 30 meters, or is it against the law as well? But maybe we should use some common sense here, and I'll answer your question. Why is jay walking a crime to begin with? Given that 4000 people are killed with another 100k injured each year the law try's to stop that. Also realize that its enforced (or loosely enforced in smaller cities) in bigger cities or more congested cities due to all the traffic and people. I don't know about the OP but I've never looked both ways for cops when jay walking, only for cars. Also realize a crime isn't always a huge thing as it could be a minor crimes like littering is a crime and loitering, which I'd be sure to say no one looks for cops when doing such things if they were to do so.
Uncommon Sense_360
Just giving jaywalking as an example. Pick running a red light, littering or whatever you like.
If the chance is high you will get caught, people tend to follow the rules. If the chance is low, people do some outrageous things...
***** I agree, I completely agree with that comment.
And as has been pointed out since the 1600’s when you Jail people for petty offenses Jails become schools of crime and reinforce the “criminal” identification and the likelihood the victim of the justice system will view themselves as pathologized and “at odds” with society
How do you do restorative justice for Murder
Not by killing the murderer that’s for sure. Interviews with the families of homocide victims overwhelmingly are just made more upset when the state kills the one who killed their loved one. They often want it initially but our immediate reactions are base
@@isidoreaerys8745 I wonder if we can eventually move away from retributive justice completely that would be a dream come true
@@handicappuccino8491no! There are some monsters who don’t deserve it! Treating a psychopath humanly is sunuu guy he biggest perversion of Justice!
This is a good one, Steve
6. The severity of the retribution doled out is based more on your skin tone than your crime.
I could swear it was the Riddler that went to Arkham, not the Joker.
your best serious video yet
Thank you for this! ❤️
Yes, nice job!
interesting
Well said! 👏
5 depressingly out of reach things about restorative justice?
I'd go with 5 real things. Bit more hopeful. Also more alliterative.
For example: it already works in Scandinavian countries.
Scandinavian society doesn't seem nearly as diverse as ours, though. I wonder how that concept would go over if their society were not quite as overwhelmingly Scandinavian.
Aries73 if you have a system that works so good, I don't think it matters if you plug in diversity.
Humans are humans and under the best social democracies, foreigners tend to integrate best.
I live in Germany which is incredibly diverse. The systems we have here work for everyone. They work so good, we can carry the syrian refugee crisis without too much effort.
The same will be true for the scandinavian justice model. If it works for scandinavian humans, it works for humans.