One hour barrier broken ! The new Simonelli spinning tops
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ค. 2021
- My latest finger tops can spin for more than one hour. They are spun by multiple twirls of the fingers, then the very low frictions allow for these longest spins. The tips are recessed, for additional stability at low speed. The flywheels are covered by shrouds that reduce the air drag. I use special lubricated contact points which reduce the tip friction.
I don't know of any other finger tops that can spin for so long, (unless motorized or receiving in some way energy from the outside while spinning);
they are hand crafted precision spinning tops, (not suitable for children).
These tops can also perform two particular kinds of motion:
- Precession, (like any other spinning top).
- Nutation: this is a very fast wobble, (faster than the spin), peculiar to this kind of tops; normal spinning tops practically do not nutate.
The tips are replaceable and can be resharpened.
These two tops were not made on commission because they have a new design. - เกม
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The combination of art and science that you bring reminds me your compatriot Leonardo.
I'm so proud to have one of your tops. And even more proud to have been one of the persons whose interest "turned your temporary hobby into a stable and more serious activity"
The animation and demonstration of the air flow are fantastic!
Thank you, Jorge ! I am going to add something more in the Forum:
www.ta0.com/forum/index.php?topic=6485.0
Such exquisite craftsmanship! It doesn't happen often, but once in a while the TH-cam algorithm actually suggests me videos that I'm really grateful for. This is definitely one of those times.
Whilst I highly dislike the look of the glass/plastic around the top it seems to work brilliantly from an engineering point. Wonderful journey and wonderful looking pieces! Thank you for sharing and good luck from Palestine!
I tried to to my best. I could have used another material instead of the plexiglass but I thought that it would have been more interesting to see the tops while they spin so I wanted to make the shrouds transparent. Good luck to you too and thanks for the appreciation words !
@@iacoposimonelli7191 absalotely, I just love the unobstructed look personally. I am not sure glass would make it much better. Either way the pieces are truly gorgeous and when I make some money and you happen to still have one I like, I will def see about acquiring one myself :)
@@TheHadi545 , if possible I would have used glass, but it was too difficult. In case, I will be glad to sell you a top.
Im impressed with your amazing artisan engineering.
Great video!! Years ago I made a top spinning for 15 minutes and it is so cool to see it just standing like it does not spin.
Thank you. 15 minutes is a long spin time, for normal spinning tops.
Excellence. So inspirational. Thank you.
A wonderful show. Bravo!
Thank you for your dedication. I have been watching for many years.
70 mins!!! Wow
Thank you ! If nothing bad happens to me, I will continue for many more years.
wow, kinetic Art and with great music too!
Thank you, Charles !
Congratulations on your achievement with this latest evolution of your top designs, Iacopo. It is interesting to see that, while spinning in a vacuum can yield vastly increased spin times, this approach of using a controlled airflow environment can also make a significant difference. The way you artfully incorporated the solution into the overall design is wonderful, especially as it still allows one to spin the "naked" top when they choose to do so.
Thank you ! I wanted to have the possibility to remove the shroud completely, above all because with the little angle of tilting allowed by the shroud, the top cannot precess or nutate with a larger angle, which is more beautiful to see. Also, there is a curious air flow effect with the shroud, which tends to keep the top aligned to the shroud, this makes the top to rise fast in vertical position if the top is precessing, so precession lasts a little time with the shroud; and, if I lean the base on a slightly tilted plane, with the shroud and the top spinning, the top too tilts and stays tilted without precessing, aligned to the shroud.
I saw a video where guy dramatically increased euler disk rotating time placing it into vacuum cube. Suppose the idea fits to increase tops spinning time too. However author of this tops put a grate effort to force it spin it in a regular conditions
Works of art
Just phenomenal. Gorgeous work as usual and congratulations on the new record!
Thank you, Nicolas !
Congratulations! Amazing improvement! Very happy for you!
Thank you !
Stunning work my guy 🙌🏼
Well done.
Your designs are absolutely gorgeous.
Thank you !
Congrats!! Amazing job!!
Thank you, Richard !
So excited for my number to come up! Spectacular!
Thank you ! It will take some time, but you can be certain that when you will have it, you will have an high quality product. I am the opposite of a fast food...
@@iacoposimonelli7191 all good things come to those who wait. Patience is a virtue. These are the things I tell myself as I wait for my number to be called 😊
The shots with smoke at 2:40 looks like how rings are formed around some planets like saturn
Amazing work.
Thank you, Waclaw.
Top job!
Magnificent Sir 🙏
Thank you !
Congratulations, you're amazing
Thank you, nilsvids !
@@iacoposimonelli7191 I messaged you on insta
Impressive! 👏
Great idea to reduce the loss of angular momentum to the surrounding air, I thought of this because I heard of the propeller effect. I tried to cover my top under a glass cover, while sometimes it gives negative effects, I think the cover is likely too big, and makes the air bounce back and gives turbulence. Your design makes more sense, 1hr is a great milestone!
Thank you, Y. Zhang. Yes, it works more efficiently if the cover is little and its surfaces near to those of the flywheel. In the mine the gap between the flywheel and the cover is 3-4 mm at the sides and a bit more above and below the flywheel, to allow for the tilting of the top. I don't know the propeller effect. You mean that propellers too lose energy to the surrounding air, in the same way ? I never thought to it, but it seems believable to me, and interesting.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 Hi Lacopo, the propeller effect I learnt was from accretion physics, where the accretion matter spins up the e.g. neutron star. The applied torque is proportional to the difference of the angular velocity of the accreting matter and central object. In the spinning top case is the other way around, but the idea is the same, if the surrounding air spins at the same angular velocity of the top, there is effectively no torque applied on the top. I think your design can preserve the angular momentum of the surrounding air and make the loss from the top less efficiently.;)
@@YZhang-ms8hy , ah, this is astrophysics... very interesting. You studied it ? I didn't study physics, (I have an artistic education), but I would have liked it. A wonderful book which I read about astrophysics is "The first three minutes" by Steven Weinberg. You explained very well the reason that the cover works, it allows for the air trapped in it to spin with the top, reducing the air drag.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 Yes, I used to work on a related physics project. I recently find spinning top fascinating, I managed to get a 49 minutes recently (uploaded to my channel). I appreciate your way of designing top in a quantified manner and I enjoy your top-physics videos, very inspiring, not mention the art, the tops are gorgeous. Cheers!
@@YZhang-ms8hy , you are kind. Thank you for the nice conversation.
I got just the secret maybe ill try it out gyros looking awesome
This things are objects of art!
A thing, though, a carbide is a compound of metal and carbon, I'm guessing you're using tungsten carbide, but just saying "carbide" is like saying "alloy" to describe an aluminum alloy.
Thanks! Yes, it's tungsten carbide.
Unbelievable!
So beautiful, these tops. Works of art. I can imagine that the fellow who runs the Smarter Every Day TH-cam channel would find this subject fascinating. (I can imagine him making ultra-high-speed videos of the smoke patterns.)
And - interesting music group you've featured here. Who is it?
Thank you, Mike. I agree, a slow motion of the smoke patterns could be interesting. The songs are: "Drunken sailor" and "When Johnny comes marching home" by Cooper Cannell, "Lost native" by Nat Keefe, "The colonel" by Zachariah Hickman, and "Royal mountain breakdown" by the Mini Vandals. I was going to use music by Albeniz for this video, (Asturias and Malaguena), but in the end I preferred these ones.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 Thanks kindly. I prefer what you chose, though the Albeniz would have been enjoyable, too. There's just something about those slow minor-key bluegrass songs...
I am amazed and humbled by your craft and innovation. Beautiful! I have been wondering where you would find large brass pieces to make the tops?
Thank you, Stevio ! I buy them on E-bay. Type "brass rod" and you should find them.
Soooo Beauty
Thaks for the beautiful presentation and the amazing resuling product. I would like to see you go for the record spin time for a "plain" top. No bottom cup. No air shroud. Just a top on a piece of glass. I wonder how close to an hour that could come? The trick is shaping it to minimize air friction.
Thank you. The achievable spin times depend largely on the technicalities adopted in the spinning top. In my case, the air shroud, the bottom cup, (recessed tip), and the multple twirl technique, all together, approximately, allow to double the spin time. My longest spin in the category of a top spun with a single twirl of the fingers, tip external, (no bottom cup), brass flywheel, glass spinning surface, is 23 m 56 s, (with my top Nr. 25). But I have very little experience with glass spinning surfaces, I almost always use carbide spinning surfaces, and I believe that at least half an hour spin times should be possible in that category. Using a tungsten flywheel and a carbide spinning surface, (single twirl, external tip, no shroud), I reached 36 m 11 s, (my top Nr. 30).
wow! very cool on so many levels - science, art, competition...
1) where can i buy one?
2) have you experimented using a stylis from a turntable cartridge? they are very hard diamond, and are machined to very tight tolerances. they come in several shapes too.
Thank you. 1) Contact me on Instagram at simonellispinningtops 2) Good idea, I will think to it.
Outstanding , what an artist , are the spinning top for sell in e bay ?
Thank you, Shay. No, you don't find these tops anywhere for sale. I make them on comission but they are expensive, it takes much time to make them.
I like it
Thanks
Being an ex Mechanic and an amateur physicist I'm intrigued by your tops, apart from them being beautiful I believe in this day and age your research could be important for making machinery more efficient and more scientists should take an interest in using "Toys" to improve specific aspects of engineering.
You are too good. Thank you !
this is so cool!! can I ask what's your driver for innovating on this? is it just a hobby? is it something you sell/ make a living out of?
Have you tried a dimpled outer surface like a golf ball? Or a rough surface like shark skin?
I tried some quick tests and it doesn't seem to work. You can read my answer to Shakti Rathod.
You can try it under a vacuum; it should last more than two hours.
Did you ever figure out if a larger or smaller top would spin longer?
I think you are right, it would spin for some more than two hours, in the vacuum.
If the top is specifically designed for to spin in vacuum conditions, it can spin even longer, like this one: th-cam.com/video/Xah0ONSoq1k/w-d-xo.html
The optimal size for longest spins depends on some parameters, like the strength of the hand of the player, the density of the flywheel, the position of the tip, (external or recessed).
Approximately, for my hands, and my kind of tops, with a brass flywheel, the optimal diameter is about 50-55 mm for tops to be started with a single twirl of the fingers, and about 70 mm for tops to be started by multiple twirls.
fantastico, bravo! e che qualità che hanno questi bellissimi spinning tops!
Perhaps, this has been mentioned before but the Earth undergoes exactly the same phenomenon of precession, so much so that, in a few thousand years, Polaris, the North star, will be replaced by Vega :o which will also make our current global warming pale in comparison.
hai un nuovo fan e subscriber!
You are welcome, Shyir ! I take the opportunity to point out that I am making two new tops in these days, with malachite and ebony, which will be ready in novcember, and that, for anyone interested, I am explaining the process of the making, day by day, with many photos, in the iTopSpin forum:
www.ta0.com/forum/index.php?topic=6873.0
@@iacoposimonelli7191 dai, grazie per l'info. Wow, it's turning out gorgeous.But why not make a video out of that? That'd be something formidable to watch!
@@masterxyr, thank you. There will be a video of the finished tops, as always. To make a video of the making would take much time, but I made two ones in the past, available on my TH-cam channel.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 Cheers. I believe I've watched 1 and I'll get to the other soon as I'm watching all of them.
Great work
Have you ever tried to make a top with dimples like on a golf ball? It's well known that dimples on a golf ball make it fly further than without them. They could make a top to have less air friction, especially where it has the fastest linear speed - on the edge of the flywheel.
It is not the first time that I have been suggested to do so. I thought to it. The problem is that the speed is much lower in a spinning top so the kinematics of the air around it is different, the air flow is laminar in tops and the dimples increase the air drag. In golf balls it's different because the speed is much higher, and the air flow is turbulent. The dimples help maintaining the air flow turbulent, without them the air flow would tend to be laminar but unstable, with higher air drag. So, in the case of golf balls, it is better to have the dimples.
Great music ! What kind of bearing tips are used ?
HSS tips, conical shape, spiked.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 thanks so the tip is spinning on what kind of surface
@@BHARGAV_GAJJAR , I make the spinning surfaces of tungsten carbide. Sometimes I make the tips too of carbide, instead of HSS. There is less friction and longer spins, with carbide on carbide, but also the carbide tip tends to dig a tiny hole in the spinning surface, so usually I prefer to use HSS on carbide, the spinning surface lasts much longer with the HSS tips. I tested various other materials, the hardest of them was moissanite, (silicon carbide), but tungsten carbide in my tests was the most wear resistant and also it has a low coefficient of friction, so I use it for my bases. I suspect that, with lighter spinning tops, and/or with tops using a ball tip instead of a sharp conical tip, the moissanite could be better than tungsten carbide. I would like to test a diamond spinning surface, but it seems that it is impossible to find a little diamond with a concavity in it.
Have you thought of using a glass/ruby base lubricated by graphite flakes? Graphite is an amazing lubricant and on glass or ruby it is basically frictionless
This is something that I will try. My tips are spiked and sharp, so the graphite could be dislodged from the contact point when the top spins, (it happens with oil too, if I put a too thin layer of it), but I will not know for sure until I try. Thank you for the tip.
might be dumb idea but have you considered a ball point pen tip of some kind. (a very small bering spinning in ink/oil)
ps. Awesome work, very impressive you should be proud.
I have tryed using little ball tips but in my case the sharp conical tips seem to work better, there is less friction, the wear out problems are not worse than with the ball tips, and the movements of the top are cleaner, (with the ball tips, even very little ones, the top tends to walk if spinning in tilted position, which is a problem if the spinning surface is very little), so I prefer the conical tips.
sir,
maybe you already got these thoughts, i feel like sharing
1.)im curious, if dimples like golf ball would increase spin time or decrease.
.
2.) i feel , if ur tops spin in a box, then from which air is evacuated using a pump. then only tip friction would slow it down.
3.)
shroud should be attached to body of top.
so air would not be thrown out like centrifugal pump
You are welcome, I try to answer:
1.) I tried something but it didn't work. I read a few things about aerodynamics and it seems that the speed of tops is too low for the dimples to work. In golf balls the speed is high enough and the effect of the dimples is that to turn the flow of the air from laminar to turbulent, and, in that situation, this reduces the air drag. In spinning tops the air flow is always laminar, even with the dimples, and in this case the dimples increase the air drag.
2.) You are right, I did it. I made a top spin for more than four hours, in the vacuum. I designed that top specifically for to spin in vacuum conditions:
th-cam.com/video/Xah0ONSoq1k/w-d-xo.html
3.) The problem is that the shroud itself, spinning with the top, would act like a centrifugal pump.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 Thank you for your patience and the reply sir. 🙏
@@iacoposimonelli7191 I thought the dimples on a golf ball provide extra lift? When the ball is hit and gets backspin, then the air flowing underneath the ball gets more resistance from the dimples which are now rotating against the airflow, while air that passes on top of the ball see less resistance cause here the dimples move in the same direction as the airflow. The difference in air resistance between bottom and top of ball provide lift and make the ball go higher and farther. This effect does not apply to a stationnary spinning top.
@@TheRocco96 , I too read something like that, it should be true.
I need one of these how long you bet this will spin for 1 hour later thank you
Excuse me, my english is not very good, if this was a question I didn't understand it.
Theyre're beautiful but the spindle looks excessively long and fragile. It could be half that length. You would reduce drag and increase rigidity
It is easier to spin hard these tops with a long stem. The long stem forgives better the unwanted lateral movements of the hand, while hard spinning; with a short stem, the top could exit from the little spinning surface, if spinning it hard. The drag of these long stems is very low, and, in the whole, the advantage of having them is greater than the disadvantage. They are not fragile ! I never had problems of this kind. I even used more delicate stems than these ones, in my experimental tops, without any problem. I've been making tops for years, (and many tests and experiments), so I know what I do. Aesthetics in this design is secondary. I designed these finger tops rationally, with the precise aim to make them able to spin for longest times, and the long stems are one of the technicalities I adopted here for that aim.
Do you shrink the flywheel on or epoxy it?
It doesn't work very well to put a very hot flywheel on a wooden core, the wood might shrink and crack. It is better to use epoxy and joints in this case.
What if you made a giant one with the shroud. Does the extra weight make it spin faster?
Also, I guess from what I’ve seen on the internet, you have the world record I believe… congratulations!
At parity of starting speed, the larger top should spin longer. But if the tops are intended to be spun with fingers, like in my case, the larger top will have a lower starting speed, so there is an optimal size/weight in this case, about 200-400 grams, for to have the longest spins. Yes, I have one record, that of the longest spin of a finger top. Thank you !
@@iacoposimonelli7191 Ahh that makes sense. It makes sense now why they are this size. I don't know why I asked as if you haven't pondered this already XD
Thank you for the response and I'm looking forward to more creations!
@@michaelslifecycle , you are welcome!
Im curios how they would perform in a vaccum chamber.
I think they could spin for maybe up to three hours in the vacuum. Anyway this design is not the best for vacuum conditions. Once I made a top, specifically designed for longest spins in the vacuum; It could spin for four hours: th-cam.com/video/Xah0ONSoq1k/w-d-xo.html
Put a fun pattern on them so it undulates and moves while they spin!
Yes, it's an idea. Probably one day I will experiment with it.
Wow! How beautiful as always. How did you make the plexiglass shroud? It looks so professional and clean. Do you think 70mm is better for long spins than 60mm? Also, how long do the tops spin without the shrouds? Great job!
Thank you, James ! In fact I had some new problems I had to solve, making these shrouds. The curvature had to be as I designed it, with little margin of error, so first I turned it on the lathe with steps, (the blue area in the drawing below), the dimensions of which are easy to measure:
imgur.com/L91CRAh
Then I removed the steps, on the lathe, with chisels held with my hands, like it is done in lathes to turn wood. I had to shape a chisel with a round shape at the side, (photo below), for to turn the rounded inside of the shrouds accurately. I also used a compass with four tips, (which I made hammering and filing a brass thin rod, photo below), for to check the thickness of the shroud, just to be more sure that I was not removing too much material. In the end, I sanded and polished everything, as usual.
imgur.com/guUW0sF
Yes, 70 mm is certainly better than 60; more precisely, my top is 68.5 mm. And it can spin for little more than one hour even without the shroud.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 That is really impressive! I thought it was vacuum formed or something because of how smooth it was. I'd love to try some larger diameter stock someday. Unfortunately I won't be going back home this summer due to covid (quarantine from uk to hk is 21 days!) so I won't have access to a lathe for a while :/
@@hiper_tops, we have to be patient, one day we will come back to our ordinary lifes, happier than before, as it happens after a period of suffering.
What is the world record?
Very interesting. Have you tried to build an egg-shaped spinning top with a recessed tip inside? Does the egg shape have unusual, possibly unique, aerodynamic properties? (Check out the work of Viktor Schauberger.) Could you eliminate the need for a hood for your spinning tops in this way? Would the egg shape of the top itself serve as the hood against aerodynamic drag and allow you to exceed the 1 hour barrier?
I forgot to say this. I once heard this said: drag is lift in the wrong direction. Drag occurs when the shapes are wrong.
Looking forward to your future tops.
@@jamey909 , thank you for the hint. I am not sure how this could be made in a top, and if it could work. I have to think to it.
Is your bio pic a sheltie or rough collie?
She's my beloved rough collie.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 my sweet sheltie girl had to be put down on April 29 at the age of 12. total devastation. like nothing I've ever felt before. she looks a lot like yours
@@tonywillingham8109 , I totally understand you. I should have written "she was" because she passed away a couple of years ago. I found myself crying often, the first days, and I am not a person who cries easily. I sincerely loved her.
Why don’t you put it all in a big glass box, spin the top, close the lid, and suck out air to make it spin in the vacuum?
I did it: th-cam.com/video/Xah0ONSoq1k/w-d-xo.html
How much would one of your tops sell for?
About 1000-2000 € each. They are largely handcraftred and it takes much time to make them.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 they look expensive alright, ty for taking time to reply and kudos for that level of craftsmanship :)
@@loatherd , you are welcome. Thank you for the compliment !
This seems silly, why not just put an air pump on the shroud so the top will spin indefinitely? Pull low pressure on the periphery and the imparted momentum of air passing through the shroud should keep it spinning forever.
Of course it is possible to keep the top moving by a flow of air, like many other things would be possible. The maker chooses what technicalities to adopt. I want my tops to spin for a long time without receiving energy from the outside in any way, also I want them to be relatively simple, so I am not interested in this kind of solutions.
Fancy fidget spinners.
Technically they are spinning tops, because they spin, precess, nutate, and topple down at the end of the spin.
Could you make electricity with this? :)
Yes, it could be possible, but only a little amount. These tops spin for long because of the very low frictions. The amount of the kinetic energy in them, given by a few twirls of the fingers, is modest.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 i suppose it wouldnt be much and probably when you draw current from them you will slow the tops down. i imagined a unit which included a small vacuum chamber with some efficient starter mechanism just to see what you could get out of it :D
@@wtfvids3472 , just a few numbers, to give an idea what I could get out of it: with a single twirl of the fingers I can put in a top 0.7 joules of kinetic energy, (calculations explained in the comment below the video: th-cam.com/video/ONMoFBENOUE/w-d-xo.html ). By multiple twirls I can reach approximately 3 joules. One joule corresponds to one watt for one second. So, with three joules, without losses, theoretically it could be possible to turn on a little 0.1 watt led light for 30 seconds. Of course with a dedicated starter, like a motor, I could start with more kinetic energy.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 ok thank you. im not really very good with electricity... trying to learn now. i think it is very strange with multiple phases and AC & DC etc. I was thinking that perhaps it costs less energy to KEEP it running, so that to start it it costs a bit of energy but in order to /keep/ it running at a certain rpm you only need to input a small amount of energy that you perhaps can get for free from other sources(small sterling or something i have no idea just throwing stuff out there).
@@wtfvids3472 , you are right, a very small amount of energy would be sufficient for to keep the top going. There are tops that can keep spinning, thanks to electricity, and they could never stop. But I am not very interested. I find more appealing a top that can spin for one hour without receiving any energy from the outside in any way, than whatever motorized top which could never stop spinning.
Outer weight ring should be gold or uranium, step up the game (again)
Yes, these materials would work fine. But you can imagine the reasons that I don't use them... I used tungsten, for the flywheel, in the past. Now I am making a couple of tops with a silver flywheel, which is denser than brass, they will be ready in a few months, and they probably will spin for more than 70 minutes.
@@iacoposimonelli7191 Respect for what you did so far, this was just a tease comment, also if someone wants gold top and has some to spare, not a problem... Result would be not just value/looks but performance also!
fake
Amazing work.
Thank you, Aghiles.