3208s are complete dogs, especially NAs. Big, heavy and not very much power. Not sure why you'd want to put one in a suburban. A Cummins 5.9/6.7 or a Duramax would be a much better choice.
Rumor has it that he never arrived at his destination. There have been numerous sightings of him and his rig at fuel stations and Caterpillar dealerships in the area! Just kidding, it's a nice unit. It was the best you could get in it's day for sure
Take it out and put an 8.3 Cummins in it, you won’t know your self. I went from a 3208 cat powered truck to a 8.3 Cummins @ 315hp and the difference is amazing
Not alot of RVs are big enough for that size engine. Too tall, oil pan to valve cover, not to mention they weigh over 5000 lbs. Who really needs that much horsepower in an RV ? Better fuel mileage would be a better feature.
Agree, I have a 3406 in a semi and it's an amazing engine. 430 HP if memory serves. I have a later Wanderlodge with 500 HP Detroit 8V92 but it has so little starting torque it's pretty pathetic. I'm working on putting a Cat 3412 in it now
I never climbed an 11% hill. But I think a Chevy 454 gives you 350-450 HP stock and probably not much worse mileage. I have been on a CAT watching/reading binge since youTube suggested a boat video with dual 3208s. Heavy, low power, low torque, poor fuel economy is what I came away with. Built in the days of sub-$2.00/gallon diesel.
The Cat 3208 is 636 cubic inches so it's a real thumper compared to the 454. The 454 needs lots of RPM's to make higher HP numbers. It's uncomfortable to run 5000-6000 rpm for long periods of time. My uncle had one and it threw a rod eventually from running 5000+ rpm for hours and hours.
Looks like a trip to a cat specialist is in order, maybe different injectors, this motor came in 3 configurations, and your motor in theory could produce 375 or 435 hp. Of course you know that the engine has no sleeves so an inframe rebuild is out of the question, and a newly rebuilt motor is a chunk of change.
Can't do much with the NA. The best these motors did was 300 hp in the late 80's with different pistons and rings and an aftercooled turbo. More than that was strictly marine. The Cat is sold and this video is to compare the performance before and after I install the Cummins ISM.
@@couttsw I believe the emissions retrofit only applies to commercial trucks 14,000 lbs and up ; even if the RV is heavier than that it would be exempt because it's not a truck. You should still leave California though.
Gotta love that deafening roar those old n/a industrial v8 diesels. Nothing was louder then a screaming idi 7.3 international can hear them for miles like the old 2 stroke Detroits. Hearing these old 70s and 80s v8 diesels makes you realize how horrible and cheap new diesels sound. They are so underappreciated because all industrial naturally aspirated v8s of that time where absolutely gutless but simple and reliable the 3208 cats and international bus and truck idi 7.3s just wouldn't die the most unpopular of these was general motors 8.2 fuel pincher great engines when they run gm and Detroit should have stuck to the 2 strokes
If you want to remain in style, call them the 420 and 444 internationals ... only Ford named them by their stupid metricized displacement. Cat 3208 is 636 cubic inches, the internationals are 420 and later 444 ; the electronic ones that Ford called the Powerstroke are 444-E
@@castirondude And we have 1994 Blue Bird International Bus with that same engine and decal...And it HAD the AT-545 - It has been replaced somewhere with the AT1545 (lockup style) transmission.
My 1993 Wanderlodge has a 500 HP 8V92. Turbo + aftercooler + supercharger + 2-cycle , and it was still gutless. We almost got stuck at a high elevation campground because the RV simply would not move up the hill in 1st gear. Had to back way up and make a run for it to crest the hill at walking speed. There may have been some options to increase power , but then one day it would not spin over. Come to find out the engine filled with water through the exhaust stack. So I bought another 8V92 out of an identical Wanderlodge, drop in replacement. Then I thought well do I want to do all this work and still creepy crawl up the hill? I thought of a Cat 3406 which is a wonderful. Then I came across a Cat 3412 , now that's the Cat's meow so to say LOL. It's a 60 degree V so that helps with the width. Ironically the Cat was also waterlogged so I'm currently rebuilding it. Although currently I swapped to building an addition to the house, hopefully will get back to the Wanderlodge in the winter.
That was my debate as well. Do I want to go to all the trouble of a repower for slightly better performance? Being a front engine I was limited by width and height so I spent quite a bit of time at Richie Brothers measuring engines. The M11/ISM was the biggest one that I thought might fit. And also the smallest that comes with a proper engine brake.
@@martinbuysabus932 Engine brakes are nice for sure. Did your bus have a transmission brake? Actually I don't recall ever seeing a MT6xx with transmission brake
As far as more gears and closer together...the MT654CR is a non-electronic 5-Speed that works better for that. (Many wanderlodge guys are running 2 speed rearends) You can have your hwy gears and your hill gears.
The Allison AT54x is a 4 speed non-lockup transmission. The MT64x is heavier duty and has a lockup converter that's always locked in 3rd and 4th gear. The locking converter saves some fuel and heat but sometimes pulling up the hill that makes it even harder to keep the engine in a usable power band. The MT65x is the same except the first gear is lower. 2-5 gear are the same as 1-4 on the 64x. Doesn't help on the highway. It just helps you get started from a standstill.
@@castirondude I KNOW ALL THAT! - I was NOT talking about the MT643 or the MT653 (653 has a Manually selected "Granny Gear" for off hwy operation) I was talking about the *MT654CR* the TRULY 5-speed *CLOSE RATIO (that's what CR Means)* has locking converter in 2/3/4/5 - That has the following Ratios 4.17/2.21/1.66/1.27/1.00 - The 643/653 Both only use the "Top Four" those are 3.583/2.093/1.387/1.00 (the 653's Off-road First is 8.045) - You *Might* want to check your facts, BEFORE you start spouting off.
@@castirondude Because I am tired of People that don't know what the hell they are talking about *INCORRECTLY* trying to correct me...I used to spec trucks for a living! - I know more about trucks than most of the people on this planet.
@@misters2837 As far as I can tell what you said about the MT654 / MT643 matches what I said about them. The difference is in the CR or not. No need to get so angry like that.
It is the hill on Highway 7 West of Agassiz. It is a popular day ride to come out from Vancouver and stop at the Sasquatch in Harrison Mills for lunch.
@@martinbuysabus932 I wonder if the auto sucks a lot of power? I had a 1964 Prevost, with 6V71, and climbing that exact hill (I'm in Maple Ridge) I can do 40km with a little pedal to spare. That engine did have 70-size injectors which puts it around 250 hp. My weight was 11,000 kgs.
This motorhome has climbed many many British Columbia hills. Lots of them are 6 to 12 per cent and five to ten miles of unrelenting grade. It has never fallen to pieces. It is slow but very reliable.
@@martinbuysabus932 One of my acquaintances had a well drilling rig with 3208NA and he drove it across the Sierra Nevada's at >10,000 . He said you could see the grass growing on the side of the mountain, going like 10-15 mph tops.
@@castirondude Looking back, I think I had unrealized transmission issues. But in any event...I should not have sold my Bird...she was perfect (except on a hill and I can live with that!)
![[DRIP] ‘Love, Maybe’ PREVIEW](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U7hwHp95m1k/mqdefault.jpg)
A turbo and more gears. Its amazing how many overlook what a change in trans can do.
Cool beans... not how fast you get there... but the journey along the way. Those na 3208's will run forever
He made a dumb decision on remodeling the bus when he should've left it all original but people just don't know how to leave things alone don't they?
That's awesome song 👌👏 I would like put a one of this on my suburban 🤔 that CAT V8 is a smaller V8 from CAT but is a inmortal engine 👌
3208s are complete dogs, especially NAs. Big, heavy and not very much power. Not sure why you'd want to put one in a suburban. A Cummins 5.9/6.7 or a Duramax would be a much better choice.
A guy put one in a Ford pickup. He had to raise the cab and make various other changes th-cam.com/video/l44sUgqUbi4/w-d-xo.html
We had 3208 in harvesters in the 70s they were tough motors take alot of abuse
I had one in a TR86 it had 10,000 hrs on it
OMG - thank god I have.a “pusher”. Listened
G to that would make my wife jump out the window. Come to think of it, not a bad way Togo!
Rumor has it that he never arrived at his destination. There have been numerous sightings of him and his rig at fuel stations and Caterpillar dealerships in the area! Just kidding, it's a nice unit. It was the best you could get in it's day for sure
That's a slug. Dangerous. People could run and jump on. Crazy
Take it out and put an 8.3 Cummins in it, you won’t know your self. I went from a 3208 cat powered truck to a 8.3 Cummins @ 315hp and the difference is amazing
It now has an ISM@450....
@@martinbuysabus932 very nice, much more relaxing drive I bet
Sweet choice
@@martinbuysabus932 Would you make a video of the Wandelodge going up the hill with its new engine?
@@jacobmoses3712 I intend to but it will be a few months yet.
I was surprised at how quickly it slowed down.
I wasn’t. Drove an 85 Louisville with this motor and a 10 speed. Goddamn boat anchor that engine is, without a turbo.
Cool rig
Bluebird says it all.
I'll never understand why RV's didn't use the CAT 3406 . It's the best motor ever made.
Not alot of RVs are big enough for that size engine. Too tall, oil pan to valve cover, not to mention they weigh over 5000 lbs. Who really needs that much horsepower in an RV ? Better fuel mileage would be a better feature.
Agree, I have a 3406 in a semi and it's an amazing engine. 430 HP if memory serves. I have a later Wanderlodge with 500 HP Detroit 8V92 but it has so little starting torque it's pretty pathetic. I'm working on putting a Cat 3412 in it now
@@castirondude I have a CAT in my Beaver....but it ain't no 3406. I had a CAT 3406 in my Pete, and loved it. Best motor ever....
I never climbed an 11% hill.
But I think a Chevy 454 gives you 350-450 HP stock and probably not much worse mileage.
I have been on a CAT watching/reading binge since youTube suggested a boat video with dual 3208s.
Heavy, low power, low torque, poor fuel economy is what I came away with. Built in the days of sub-$2.00/gallon diesel.
There was not a stock motor home 454 that came close to 350hp. 250hp max. Upgraded sure, stock no chance.
The Cat 3208 is 636 cubic inches so it's a real thumper compared to the 454. The 454 needs lots of RPM's to make higher HP numbers. It's uncomfortable to run 5000-6000 rpm for long periods of time. My uncle had one and it threw a rod eventually from running 5000+ rpm for hours and hours.
Looks like a trip to a cat specialist is in order, maybe different injectors, this motor came in 3 configurations, and your motor in theory could produce 375 or 435 hp. Of course you know that the engine has no sleeves so an inframe rebuild is out of the question, and a newly rebuilt motor is a chunk of change.
Can't do much with the NA. The best these motors did was 300 hp in the late 80's with different pistons and rings and an aftercooled turbo. More than that was strictly marine. The Cat is sold and this video is to compare the performance before and after I install the Cummins ISM.
@@martinbuysabus932 ok
Not sure if the Cummins is OK in California, emissions crap.
@@couttsw I believe the emissions retrofit only applies to commercial trucks 14,000 lbs and up ; even if the RV is heavier than that it would be exempt because it's not a truck. You should still leave California though.
Gotta love that deafening roar those old n/a industrial v8 diesels. Nothing was louder then a screaming idi 7.3 international can hear them for miles like the old 2 stroke Detroits. Hearing these old 70s and 80s v8 diesels makes you realize how horrible and cheap new diesels sound. They are so underappreciated because all industrial naturally aspirated v8s of that time where absolutely gutless but simple and reliable the 3208 cats and international bus and truck idi 7.3s just wouldn't die the most unpopular of these was general motors 8.2 fuel pincher great engines when they run gm and Detroit should have stuck to the 2 strokes
Yeah. The EPA completely ruined diesel engines.
If you want to remain in style, call them the 420 and 444 internationals ... only Ford named them by their stupid metricized displacement. Cat 3208 is 636 cubic inches, the internationals are 420 and later 444 ; the electronic ones that Ford called the Powerstroke are 444-E
@@castirondude WRONG AGAIN Navistar Called them that too! - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Harvester_IDI#/media/File:Emissions.jpg
@@misters2837 As far as I can tell that's the label that would be on a 1993 Ford vehicle. I have a 1994 Ford F350 and IIRC the label looks like that.
@@castirondude And we have 1994 Blue Bird International Bus with that same engine and decal...And it HAD the AT-545 - It has been replaced somewhere with the AT1545 (lockup style) transmission.
If anyone knows, why would they put the intercooled 3208T's with higher hp in motorhomes instead of trucks that do alot more work?
Single ring pistons, they only last 100,000 miles when turboed
My 1993 Wanderlodge has a 500 HP 8V92. Turbo + aftercooler + supercharger + 2-cycle , and it was still gutless. We almost got stuck at a high elevation campground because the RV simply would not move up the hill in 1st gear. Had to back way up and make a run for it to crest the hill at walking speed. There may have been some options to increase power , but then one day it would not spin over. Come to find out the engine filled with water through the exhaust stack. So I bought another 8V92 out of an identical Wanderlodge, drop in replacement. Then I thought well do I want to do all this work and still creepy crawl up the hill? I thought of a Cat 3406 which is a wonderful. Then I came across a Cat 3412 , now that's the Cat's meow so to say LOL. It's a 60 degree V so that helps with the width. Ironically the Cat was also waterlogged so I'm currently rebuilding it. Although currently I swapped to building an addition to the house, hopefully will get back to the Wanderlodge in the winter.
That was my debate as well. Do I want to go to all the trouble of a repower for slightly better performance? Being a front engine I was limited by width and height so I spent quite a bit of time at Richie Brothers measuring engines. The M11/ISM was the biggest one that I thought might fit. And also the smallest that comes with a proper engine brake.
I am looking forward to your project!
3412 Weighs 6000lbs, more than double of the Detroit....Good Luck!
@@misters2837 Thanks!
@@martinbuysabus932 Engine brakes are nice for sure. Did your bus have a transmission brake? Actually I don't recall ever seeing a MT6xx with transmission brake
As far as more gears and closer together...the MT654CR is a non-electronic 5-Speed that works better for that. (Many wanderlodge guys are running 2 speed rearends) You can have your hwy gears and your hill gears.
The Allison AT54x is a 4 speed non-lockup transmission. The MT64x is heavier duty and has a lockup converter that's always locked in 3rd and 4th gear. The locking converter saves some fuel and heat but sometimes pulling up the hill that makes it even harder to keep the engine in a usable power band. The MT65x is the same except the first gear is lower. 2-5 gear are the same as 1-4 on the 64x. Doesn't help on the highway. It just helps you get started from a standstill.
@@castirondude I KNOW ALL THAT! - I was NOT talking about the MT643 or the MT653 (653 has a Manually selected "Granny Gear" for off hwy operation) I was talking about the *MT654CR* the TRULY 5-speed *CLOSE RATIO (that's what CR Means)* has locking converter in 2/3/4/5 - That has the following Ratios 4.17/2.21/1.66/1.27/1.00 - The 643/653 Both only use the "Top Four" those are 3.583/2.093/1.387/1.00 (the 653's Off-road First is 8.045) - You *Might* want to check your facts, BEFORE you start spouting off.
@@misters2837 Why are you so angry?
@@castirondude Because I am tired of People that don't know what the hell they are talking about *INCORRECTLY* trying to correct me...I used to spec trucks for a living! - I know more about trucks than most of the people on this planet.
@@misters2837 As far as I can tell what you said about the MT654 / MT643 matches what I said about them. The difference is in the CR or not. No need to get so angry like that.
Where in BC is this? I'm from central BC and this looks like a good place to take the motorcycle next summer?
It is the hill on Highway 7 West of Agassiz. It is a popular day ride to come out from Vancouver and stop at the Sasquatch in Harrison Mills for lunch.
@@martinbuysabus932 I wonder if the auto sucks a lot of power? I had a 1964 Prevost, with 6V71, and climbing that exact hill (I'm in Maple Ridge) I can do 40km with a little pedal to spare. That engine did have 70-size injectors which puts it around 250 hp. My weight was 11,000 kgs.
@@royj8549 I am 32000 pounds and yes the auto is part of the problem. Gaps were far too big.
@Martin buys a bus You live in BC?
@@martinbuysabus932 You live in BC?
I didn't see a cat sitting on the dashboard :)
Only thing the 3208 is good for is a boat anchor. Don't get me wrong, cat built some awesome engines. The 3208 wasn't one of them.
No no, is a reliable motor, it just weighs as much as a miata
@@_.incredible_magnum._291 you’ve given me an idea
@@Dumdumcanadian and what's that?
The 3208 NA falls to pieces the moment it smells a hill.
This motorhome has climbed many many British Columbia hills. Lots of them are 6 to 12 per cent and five to ten miles of unrelenting grade. It has never fallen to pieces. It is slow but very reliable.
I had that motor in my 1987 Wanderlodge FC. I loved that motorhome but it hated a hill. But man-o-man, I loved that Bird.
@@martinbuysabus932 One of my acquaintances had a well drilling rig with 3208NA and he drove it across the Sierra Nevada's at >10,000 . He said you could see the grass growing on the side of the mountain, going like 10-15 mph tops.
@@curtisloftis6003 Wanderlodges are very nice RV's , it's worthwhile to do an engine swap IMO
@@castirondude Looking back, I think I had unrealized transmission issues. But in any event...I should not have sold my Bird...she was perfect (except on a hill and I can live with that!)
Really slows down quick
I've got a turbo 3208 in my 40 ft motorhome
How does it handle the hills?
Swap a Clark 5 speed manual transmission or Eaton Fuller
It has a 13 speed now.
Now downhill, please 👍🏼
I still think this is what Ford should have put in their f series
They did put it in some heavy duty stuff though, I’ve got a L9000 with a 3208
Put a 3408 inner! lol you'll be passing every body instead.
My 3406b was 425 hp and 1450 torque. The ISM going in is 450 Hp and 1550 torque. I expect do do some passing anyway.
You need a bigger motor
what no its too big for the bus lmao
Best hill on hwy 7 lol