I was setting my timing per the advice in the video, and set my cam lobes facing rearward at TDC which seemed to be 180° from where it originally was. I got the tick marks level and tried turning the bike over and it made an awful whining noise when it cranked over. I pulled everything back apart again, and now when I check my crank tick mark to make sure the motor is at top dead center, the punch marks on the flywheel are slightly off (previously they were lining up perfectly). Does anyone know what I did to my bike or how I should go about fixing it?
Brett Crochiere sounds like the flywheel has slipped on the crank end. If the opposite side crank punch marks are good your flywheel might have slipped. This throws off your spark timing. That nut holding the flywheel needs to be torqued properly. You wouldn’t think a keyed flywheel can slip but this has happened to me before
This one is a spring tensioner, you were correct on your first try! Yes I have had the springs fail/get weak and require complete tensioner replacement. Or, you can buy manual tensioners which besides having to check them every now and again are almost fool proof
so after i rebuilt my 2005 crf250r i got everything good all marks lined up try to start and a few back fires open it up again and the flywheel marks are off a hair ive tried to redo it a few times and i keep getting the same thing i wonder if the flywheel keyway broke
That happened to me. I didn’t torque the flywheel nut properly and it spun. The bike backfired then refused to start. Didn’t slip much but it slipped. Pop the cover off and have a look
If there is a disagreement between the RH crankshaft timing mark and the flywheel mark then it’s more than likely your flywheel has slipped on it’s key. You’d need to remove the flywheel and inspect
Do I need to put the rearward key on the cam slightly higher so when I put tension on it it aligns perfectly or is it fine being perfectly even before tension is applied?
I know this is an old video, but following the instructions I still cant seem to get the top marks perfectly aligned. When I let the chain tension off, its still off slightly. Moving the chain one tooth makes it off slightly the other way. Is this maybe a sprocket & chain replacement situation? I got the bike cheap not running. Figured it wouldnt be a big deal. I rebuilt the carb, put a new plug in, and all it would do is backfire a little once in a while. But I dont know how it could slip. Its tight in there. So maybe the chain it stretched?
Hey, I have a knock noise when my 08 Crf250r is at idle and I believe it’s the cam chain or something to do with it. I haven’t opened up my motor to see yet but I want to know if I will need a new cam chain or just to tension it. The knock isn’t to bad, it happens when I take off and in the lower rpm’s, I just want to get it fixed before it gets too bad and other problems start to show up, thanks.
If it’s running fine otherwise it won’t be a timing issue. More than likely the chain is a but old and stretched. They aren’t terribly expensive and it’s not very invasive to change it out. I’d start there, but you should also remove your tensioner and inspect it
@@turdpike alright thankyou, it also sputters when I steadily accelerate but when I hit that throttle and bang through the gears it doesn’t hesitate one bit. Will there be consequences and engine failure if I don’t change the chain out soon?
@@turdpike I watched a lot of your videos and I seen that the timing isn’t too hard to check. I’m only 15 and I need something to do anyway! I think it would be good for me to check over those things and learn how to do it, don’t have much else to do!
@@turdpike also, sometimes it’s a pain to start, but then sometimes it starts 1st - 3rd kick. It’s very unpredictable, is that anything I should be worried about? Sorry for all of the questions, just don’t what any huge expenses!
so on the right side of the engine, the marks line up, so the piston is TDC, but then i don't see the flywheel marks... and then the camshaft is perfectly aligned. when I tried to start it after we rebuilt the engine, the piston is getting stuck after it turns over once. please help
Something sounds wrong, the camshaft is positioned correctly? By that I mean the lobes are facing to the back of the bike with the piston at TDC (as indicated by the crank punch mark) it seems unlikely, and I’m trying to remember if it’s even possible, but the cam might be 180 degrees out. The lobes must be facing rearward when the cam marks line up
I’ve personally had the flywheel slip on me before, because I didn’t torque it down properly. It seems impossible but it can happen. Maybe the flywheel has slipped on the woodruff key. But that shouldn’t explain why you physically can’t spin the engine over. I’d remove the camshaft and let the cam chain freewheel, spin the engine over slowly till you see the flywheel marks. Then compare it to the RH side of the bike. If you can’t see the punch mark on the RH side, something has slipped
Dude I did everything and it's perfect but every time I kick it it makes this like sound like you're breathing out air really hard and it has like barely compression and when I tighten up the chain it doesn't bounce back it just stays 😭
Have just rebuilt the top end on my bike, has a tapping noise coming from the head everything is timed all marks line up as perfect as I can get them, could this be valve clearances please help
Hard to say man, almost wonder if it’s the cam chain slapping around. When you put it all back together, did you happen to look at the tensioner to see if it was working properly? Maybe it’s hung up and won’t release as far as it is supposed to. Had one go bad on my 08’, and have seen them go bad on other bikes. Take the 8mm bolt out of the back of the tensioner, and put a small flat screwdriver in there into the notch. It’s been a while but I believe if you wind it counter clockwise it should hit a stop of some sort. If you’re able to turn it lots or even a tiny bit for that matter, it could be the culprit. Then once you are convinced it’s wound out all the way, start the bike and see if it made a difference
Counter clockwise, correct? Ideally they shouldn’t need to be turned at all, once your screwdriver is removed it should snap extend all the way putting tension on the chain guide. How’d it run after you did that?
So after I recently did a top end replacement, I put it back together and set the timing, but now I’m having a tough time kick starting it. It’ll start going through the cycles but then make a loud “clank” as if it’s getting stuck in one of the strokes. Any help would be greatly appreciated !
Hard to say via description alone, would be nice to hear it. Often times I’ll notice people just have their idle set too low and the bike makes all sorts of noise as it struggles to stay running. Needs enough speed for the flyweight to disengage the auto-decompression
Hey, I just bought a 2006 crf250r and I was taking it for my second ride and luckily I went for a pass back past my place because I noticed it sounded less chirpy and then continued to loose power (I was cruzing around 40kmh) and then back fired and locked up. I was able to find neutral afterwards and was able to get the mechanism to rotate but no combustion...it’s been a busy week so I haven’t really looked further into it but have been trouble shooting online a bit. Could this have been a result of the timing not being set properly by the shop that recently replaced the whole top end? Or could it have something to do with the fact that first time shifting bike into gear it will stall without a throttle blip? I realize that might be the clutch basket having small grooves in it and the plates are catching a bit....I don’t have a lot of experience with bikes but 4 stroke race bikes I have 0...it seemed to run so good haha
Sorry to hear- it could be any number of things really. You say it locked up right? So when it did was the kick starter solid? Then it freed up later you’re saying? The fact it sounds like it gradually lost power till it quit seems like something internally was causing a lot of friction, which is usually bad news
@@turdpike hey you have a great video. thanks for the knowledge. quick question. does the Leftside case mark have to align with the "f" mark on the flywheel? in mine, there are two marks on the flywheel and aligns with the "f" (first mark) w/out tensioner. but when tensioned the marks line up with the second flywheel mark. would that unaligment cause issue or could it be i installed the stator slightly off? any input will make you my hero. thxs
MELTON115 does the bike run? It may have slipped a bit, its worth a better look. Carefully pop that cover off and you can usually save the gasket and re use it
turdpike when you say “it’s possible this could be 180deg”, what do you mean by that? Could the flywheel have been fitted incorrectly? I’m troubleshooting a motor someone else has built that I can’t get to start as the timing is out.
The stator itself, by changing the angle where it is mounted. The flywheel has to come off and you’ll see alignment marks somewhere on the engine case and one on the stator. They need to be aligned. If not simply loosed the stator mount bolts and spin the stator till it does, then tighten it all down
Hi Turdpike, thanks for the video. I currently have a no spark issue on my 09 CRF450R and I was wondering if the timing being off could cause a no spark situation. I originally assumed it wouldn’t cause this, rather the spark would just be early/late. Is it correct to assume this? My coil/spark plug is good and I got a new wiring harness, but it appears that my flywheel may have slipped because at TDC (primary gear dot lined up and cam sprocket lined up) it aligns with the second flywheel timing mark when in the manual it says it must line up with the first mark. I will probably investigate this either way and buy a new key, but I was just curious so I don’t get my hopes up if it won’t solve the issue.
Hmmm. I agree no spark shouldn’t be caused by a plausible flywheel slip, it’d still spark fine, just at the wrong time. Any chance you metered out the ignition coil? If the stator coils meter out fine too that’s where I’d go next. Then meter the coil to the plug cap. Hope this helps!
@@turdpike Thanks for the response! I checked continuity to the cap and coil resistance against the values in the manual for the ignition coil and according to that it is good. What would be the process for checking the stator coil? I wasn’t totally sure of the proper method previously. I checked crank sensors to have the correct resistances. And yeah you’re right I might as well just to set everything straight.
Do you happen to have a service manual? If not it should be online free somewhere- but on other bikes you simply disconnect the main connector coming out from the stator and it’s a matter of pinning out different windings and checking their resistances. I don’t know the values you’re shooting for off the top of my head but even looking at a wiring diagram should tell you which pins you need to go on to check individual windings circuits
@@turdpike I may have confused checking the crank position sensors with this but I will check again in my manual. Thank you, I appreciate all the advice!
so when you say that it is possible to be off by 180° do you mean that its possible that the tick marks may not be visible if its off by 180 or that it is set wrong. Reason im asking is that i recently did my left crank seal and think i messed up the timing. i started and then i rode it for a minute then died now wont start and sounds as if it sucking air from the exhaust. any help would be great thanks.
moejr14 if you have the RH crank end mark lined up, the LH (flywheel marks) should be visible in it’s window. If it’s not, the flywheel has likely slipped on its shaft. Doesn’t sound possible but I’ve seen it, you have to make sure when you did the seal you torqued the flywheel back up to specs. If your RH and LH crank marks agree, and both line up together, then you likely have it set wrong in the head. I’d start by going off the RH crank end mark, then double check to make sure the flywheel marks are good. Your scenario sounds exactly like what I’ve seen before with the flywheel slipping on the shaft. Ran for a few mins then quit, impossible to start. Flywheel wasn’t torqued, throwing the spark timing completely out of whack
moejr14 ahh seems like your flywheel has slipped. So you’ll have to take the LH cover back off (be gentle so maybe you can save the gasket) and you’ll have to remove the flywheel and likely get yourself a new woodruff key (it likely rounded off) and re-install the flywheel on a new key. Make sure you torque to specs so it doesn’t happen again. Whats happened is that your spark timing is off to the rest of the engine, its not getting spark at the right time. Will never run.
turdpike so i just removed the l/h case and the flywheel and noticed it did slip and sheared of the key. I will replace 5he key and flywheel. what is the best way to torque down the flywheel without it spinning? also do you know the torque specs. Thanks for all your help man.
This was a really great video with everything I needed to know, thanks bro
Straight to the point and Clear directions thank you man
Short and to the point. Thank you
What’s the torque for the can holders? I can’t find it in my manual. Great video!!
Thank you bro!!! This video saved my life!
I was setting my timing per the advice in the video, and set my cam lobes facing rearward at TDC which seemed to be 180° from where it originally was. I got the tick marks level and tried turning the bike over and it made an awful whining noise when it cranked over. I pulled everything back apart again, and now when I check my crank tick mark to make sure the motor is at top dead center, the punch marks on the flywheel are slightly off (previously they were lining up perfectly). Does anyone know what I did to my bike or how I should go about fixing it?
Brett Crochiere sounds like the flywheel has slipped on the crank end. If the opposite side crank punch marks are good your flywheel might have slipped. This throws off your spark timing. That nut holding the flywheel needs to be torqued properly. You wouldn’t think a keyed flywheel can slip but this has happened to me before
Did you figure it out?
Most excellent. Have you ever had to replace the spring in the tensioner?
Aah. I just leared this is tensioned using oil pressure.
This one is a spring tensioner, you were correct on your first try! Yes I have had the springs fail/get weak and require complete tensioner replacement. Or, you can buy manual tensioners which besides having to check them every now and again are almost fool proof
so after i rebuilt my 2005 crf250r i got everything good all marks lined up try to start and a few back fires open it up again and the flywheel marks are off a hair ive tried to redo it a few times and i keep getting the same thing i wonder if the flywheel keyway broke
That happened to me. I didn’t torque the flywheel nut properly and it spun. The bike backfired then refused to start. Didn’t slip much but it slipped. Pop the cover off and have a look
When I reinstalled the can chain tensioner the cam rotated back and the timing was off...still do not understand what I did wrong....
My cam isn’t spinning all the way around any ideas whats wrong
If the flywheel is 180 degrees out, how do you align it?
If there is a disagreement between the RH crankshaft timing mark and the flywheel mark then it’s more than likely your flywheel has slipped on it’s key. You’d need to remove the flywheel and inspect
Do I need to put the rearward key on the cam slightly higher so when I put tension on it it aligns perfectly or is it fine being perfectly even before tension is applied?
It needs to be aligned when tension is applied. So, set it a bit higher to start if need be
I know this is an old video, but following the instructions I still cant seem to get the top marks perfectly aligned. When I let the chain tension off, its still off slightly. Moving the chain one tooth makes it off slightly the other way.
Is this maybe a sprocket & chain replacement situation?
I got the bike cheap not running. Figured it wouldnt be a big deal. I rebuilt the carb, put a new plug in, and all it would do is backfire a little once in a while. But I dont know how it could slip. Its tight in there. So maybe the chain it stretched?
How did you soloved it? Have the same problem atm..
Hey, I have a knock noise when my 08 Crf250r is at idle and I believe it’s the cam chain or something to do with it. I haven’t opened up my motor to see yet but I want to know if I will need a new cam chain or just to tension it. The knock isn’t to bad, it happens when I take off and in the lower rpm’s, I just want to get it fixed before it gets too bad and other problems start to show up, thanks.
Also, could the knock be because the timing might be off or just needing a new cam chain?
If it’s running fine otherwise it won’t be a timing issue. More than likely the chain is a but old and stretched. They aren’t terribly expensive and it’s not very invasive to change it out. I’d start there, but you should also remove your tensioner and inspect it
@@turdpike alright thankyou, it also sputters when I steadily accelerate but when I hit that throttle and bang through the gears it doesn’t hesitate one bit. Will there be consequences and engine failure if I don’t change the chain out soon?
@@turdpike I watched a lot of your videos and I seen that the timing isn’t too hard to check. I’m only 15 and I need something to do anyway! I think it would be good for me to check over those things and learn how to do it, don’t have much else to do!
@@turdpike also, sometimes it’s a pain to start, but then sometimes it starts 1st - 3rd kick. It’s very unpredictable, is that anything I should be worried about? Sorry for all of the questions, just don’t what any huge expenses!
so on the right side of the engine, the marks line up, so the piston is TDC, but then i don't see the flywheel marks... and then the camshaft is perfectly aligned. when I tried to start it after we rebuilt the engine, the piston is getting stuck after it turns over once. please help
Something sounds wrong, the camshaft is positioned correctly? By that I mean the lobes are facing to the back of the bike with the piston at TDC (as indicated by the crank punch mark) it seems unlikely, and I’m trying to remember if it’s even possible, but the cam might be 180 degrees out. The lobes must be facing rearward when the cam marks line up
turdpike yeah the lobs are facing rear wear and the punch mark is lining up on the right side of the engine, but the fly wheel mark isn’t showing up
I’ve personally had the flywheel slip on me before, because I didn’t torque it down properly. It seems impossible but it can happen. Maybe the flywheel has slipped on the woodruff key. But that shouldn’t explain why you physically can’t spin the engine over. I’d remove the camshaft and let the cam chain freewheel, spin the engine over slowly till you see the flywheel marks. Then compare it to the RH side of the bike. If you can’t see the punch mark on the RH side, something has slipped
Also, with the cam chain disconnected from the cam, if the engine spins freely then you know the problem is with the head timing. Make sense?
Dude I did everything and it's perfect but every time I kick it it makes this like sound like you're breathing out air really hard and it has like barely compression and when I tighten up the chain it doesn't bounce back it just stays 😭
Fixed it But now my engine is locked up😑😐
Yeah sounds like you’ve got other issues there…
@@turdpike I fixed it lol
Have just rebuilt the top end on my bike, has a tapping noise coming from the head everything is timed all marks line up as perfect as I can get them, could this be valve clearances please help
Could be, see my other video about how to check them
turdpike can you have a listen to it and tell me what u think th-cam.com/video/JX_oLURaIHA/w-d-xo.html
Hard to say man, almost wonder if it’s the cam chain slapping around. When you put it all back together, did you happen to look at the tensioner to see if it was working properly? Maybe it’s hung up and won’t release as far as it is supposed to. Had one go bad on my 08’, and have seen them go bad on other bikes. Take the 8mm bolt out of the back of the tensioner, and put a small flat screwdriver in there into the notch. It’s been a while but I believe if you wind it counter clockwise it should hit a stop of some sort. If you’re able to turn it lots or even a tiny bit for that matter, it could be the culprit. Then once you are convinced it’s wound out all the way, start the bike and see if it made a difference
turdpike I can turn it quite a bit
Counter clockwise, correct? Ideally they shouldn’t need to be turned at all, once your screwdriver is removed it should snap extend all the way putting tension on the chain guide. How’d it run after you did that?
I thing my timing chain is short because it is pain in ass to put it back on cam properly
So after I recently did a top end replacement, I put it back together and set the timing, but now I’m having a tough time kick starting it. It’ll start going through the cycles but then make a loud “clank” as if it’s getting stuck in one of the strokes. Any help would be greatly appreciated !
Juan Buendia are you referring to the loud clicking/clank noise the auto decompression makes? Do you know what I’m talking about there?
Turdpike I too had this issue after I got it started. Could it be the chain needing replaced?
Hard to say via description alone, would be nice to hear it. Often times I’ll notice people just have their idle set too low and the bike makes all sorts of noise as it struggles to stay running. Needs enough speed for the flyweight to disengage the auto-decompression
What do you do if the fly wheel won’t line up at tdc?
It may have slipped on the crankshaft. I have seen this once- the flywheel nut wasn’t torqued up. The flywheel managed to slip off its keyway.
Hey, I just bought a 2006 crf250r and I was taking it for my second ride and luckily I went for a pass back past my place because I noticed it sounded less chirpy and then continued to loose power (I was cruzing around 40kmh) and then back fired and locked up. I was able to find neutral afterwards and was able to get the mechanism to rotate but no combustion...it’s been a busy week so I haven’t really looked further into it but have been trouble shooting online a bit. Could this have been a result of the timing not being set properly by the shop that recently replaced the whole top end? Or could it have something to do with the fact that first time shifting bike into gear it will stall without a throttle blip? I realize that might be the clutch basket having small grooves in it and the plates are catching a bit....I don’t have a lot of experience with bikes but 4 stroke race bikes I have 0...it seemed to run so good haha
Sorry to hear- it could be any number of things really. You say it locked up right? So when it did was the kick starter solid? Then it freed up later you’re saying? The fact it sounds like it gradually lost power till it quit seems like something internally was causing a lot of friction, which is usually bad news
@@turdpike hey you have a great video. thanks for the knowledge. quick question. does the Leftside case mark have to align with the "f" mark on the flywheel? in mine, there are two marks on the flywheel and aligns with the "f" (first mark) w/out tensioner. but when tensioned the marks line up with the second flywheel mark. would that unaligment cause issue or could it be i installed the stator slightly off? any input will make you my hero. thxs
Did you ever figure anything out
Hey mate I can see my marks on the flywheel but only one from straight on , I have to look to the left a touch to see both. Is this correct?
Recently put the flywheel on and torqued to spec so I dont think its slip, or has it? Hmm
MELTON115 does the bike run? It may have slipped a bit, its worth a better look. Carefully pop that cover off and you can usually save the gasket and re use it
turdpike when you say “it’s possible this could be 180deg”, what do you mean by that? Could the flywheel have been fitted incorrectly? I’m troubleshooting a motor someone else has built that I can’t get to start as the timing is out.
Is this an interference motor?
Yes, absolutely
How do I adjust the spark timing if everything els in the timing is good
The stator itself, by changing the angle where it is mounted. The flywheel has to come off and you’ll see alignment marks somewhere on the engine case and one on the stator. They need to be aligned. If not simply loosed the stator mount bolts and spin the stator till it does, then tighten it all down
This crf is from year?
2008
Hi Turdpike, thanks for the video. I currently have a no spark issue on my 09 CRF450R and I was wondering if the timing being off could cause a no spark situation. I originally assumed it wouldn’t cause this, rather the spark would just be early/late. Is it correct to assume this?
My coil/spark plug is good and I got a new wiring harness, but it appears that my flywheel may have slipped because at TDC (primary gear dot lined up and cam sprocket lined up) it aligns with the second flywheel timing mark when in the manual it says it must line up with the first mark. I will probably investigate this either way and buy a new key, but I was just curious so I don’t get my hopes up if it won’t solve the issue.
Hmmm. I agree no spark shouldn’t be caused by a plausible flywheel slip, it’d still spark fine, just at the wrong time. Any chance you metered out the ignition coil? If the stator coils meter out fine too that’s where I’d go next. Then meter the coil to the plug cap. Hope this helps!
As far as mechanical timing, you’re better off removing the flywheel and making sure it did or didn’t slip! Then your mind can be at ease lol
@@turdpike Thanks for the response! I checked continuity to the cap and coil resistance against the values in the manual for the ignition coil and according to that it is good.
What would be the process for checking the stator coil? I wasn’t totally sure of the proper method previously. I checked crank sensors to have the correct resistances.
And yeah you’re right I might as well just to set everything straight.
Do you happen to have a service manual? If not it should be online free somewhere- but on other bikes you simply disconnect the main connector coming out from the stator and it’s a matter of pinning out different windings and checking their resistances. I don’t know the values you’re shooting for off the top of my head but even looking at a wiring diagram should tell you which pins you need to go on to check individual windings circuits
@@turdpike I may have confused checking the crank position sensors with this but I will check again in my manual. Thank you, I appreciate all the advice!
so when you say that it is possible to be off by 180° do you mean that its possible that the tick marks may not be visible if its off by 180 or that it is set wrong. Reason im asking is that i recently did my left crank seal and think i messed up the timing. i started and then i rode it for a minute then died now wont start and sounds as if it sucking air from the exhaust. any help would be great thanks.
moejr14 if you have the RH crank end mark lined up, the LH (flywheel marks) should be visible in it’s window. If it’s not, the flywheel has likely slipped on its shaft. Doesn’t sound possible but I’ve seen it, you have to make sure when you did the seal you torqued the flywheel back up to specs.
If your RH and LH crank marks agree, and both line up together, then you likely have it set wrong in the head.
I’d start by going off the RH crank end mark, then double check to make sure the flywheel marks are good. Your scenario sounds exactly like what I’ve seen before with the flywheel slipping on the shaft. Ran for a few mins then quit, impossible to start. Flywheel wasn’t torqued, throwing the spark timing completely out of whack
turdpike so my r/h and cam shaft marks are lined up but the flywheel ticks are off. How can i fix this?
moejr14 ahh seems like your flywheel has slipped. So you’ll have to take the LH cover back off (be gentle so maybe you can save the gasket) and you’ll have to remove the flywheel and likely get yourself a new woodruff key (it likely rounded off) and re-install the flywheel on a new key. Make sure you torque to specs so it doesn’t happen again.
Whats happened is that your spark timing is off to the rest of the engine, its not getting spark at the right time. Will never run.
moejr14 how far off are they? Can you see them at all through that little hole?
turdpike so i just removed the l/h case and the flywheel and noticed it did slip and sheared of the key. I will replace 5he key and flywheel. what is the best way to torque down the flywheel without it spinning? also do you know the torque specs. Thanks for all your help man.
So cam timing, not ignition timing
Yes you bet