About 15 years ago I had my first child delivered by Kaiser San Francisco. My sweet daughter was almost born dead because the lack of proper monitor and care in the delivery room! We switched to Blue Cross since then. This year in 2022 we decided to switch back to try for a year because the premium cost of blue cross is getting too high. I went to see a dr with my two teenage daughters. My experience was not good, we chose a family dr, when we arrived, they told me my daughter is now over 14, she should see the dr by herself, at that time I was ok. Then when it was my turn, they sent my daughter in the room with me with the dr. And when the dr needed to check my body, she had me undressed in front of her and my daughter, no partition, no any privacy. I had not problem going undressed with my daughters. Just didn’t understand why they treated the teens and the adults so differently. If the teens needed some privacy or sense of security talking to the dr, should they understand the parent also may like to get some privacy! Nope! They are just indifferent and wanted to have it done ASAP and moved on. With this experience, Blue Cross Is not too expensive!
I realize this reply to your comment is very untimely. But, I think the reason is because they are giving teens more privacy in case they are "sexually active?" It's truly insane that things are the way they are . . . I totally agree that your experience is unacceptable.
Well, I agree, they do take your premiums. That's all though. They took my premiums and left me disabled because they refused me treatment. All I needed was physical therapy for a ruptured tendon. Kaiser said no. Kaiser is evil and will keep you from getting medical treatment.
I gave him two chances because HealthNet was an expensive version of them. Now I have one year to go until I can collect Medicare and I'm going on scan insurance
Am 75, RN, just stopped working 3 years ago. Worked for Kaiser for 45 years. Had heart valve surgery 15 years ago, one if my brothers had 2 bouts of cancer, lived for 26 years. Did not die of cancer. Only thing I can say about anyone complaining is that we do not have the patient’s charts to see what really happened. Your primary schedules specialists appoints, scans labs whatever is needed while you are in the exam room. Excellent care. You can call at 3:00 am, speak with RN advice nurse and get help. You may not like what you are being told and you may not follow up but you will be helped.
Run, don't walk away from Kaiser. I have been trying to make a CT exam for over 60 days. Impossible to get thru. The doctors may be okay but meaningless when zero support. F-
File complaints with the Dept of Managed Health Care. You must be able to get a test within 15 business days, otherwise they have to send you out of network. Grievances are what Kaiser understands, especially when you follow through with the Dept of Managed Health Care.
Kaiser is hugely successful in Washington State, and I have had nothing less than excellent, high-quality care from them. I was originally with another HMO, Group Health Cooperative, which merged with Kaiser in the early 2000s. GHC was great, top-notch care. Since the merger, I've only received better care. I'm a high-risk patient, with compound conditions and require a high level of coordinated care. I've not wanted for anything, nor have I had to wait for care and receiving out of network specialty care or hospitalization has never been a problem or an extra expense. I would not want to receive care anywhere else. In all, I have been a member of GHC/KPWa for 42 years.
Thank you for the overview.I worked as a nurse in management when Kaiser tried to enter upstate NY healthcare. It was a complete fail ! Their success is all about the bottom line, not about the patients. WHPUOS =worked hours per unit of service , and that unit was measured CONSTANTLY! How long were employees on the phone with a pt, how long did it take to check a pt in and out , how long the md was in the room with a pt. EVERYTHING was measured, and needed a plan to improve the NUMBERS , not improve the pt care.Staff had to concentrate more on that the pts.If your numbers were high you received great bonuses. Our MD's and surgeons refused to compromise pt care in this manner.And Kaiser pulled out within two years.In my opinion, it was the BEST decision for upstate NY !
Really enjoyed your explanation Doc. Thank you. Would be great to learn with few examples of how they leverage this integrated vertical system to optimize the customer experience and reduce costs. Also, I'd like to suggest you to include your name in the channel name. I feel that will give your channel a bit more edge with the Personal Branding.
I have been with Kaiser Permanente since the early 1980s from Sacramento, to Northern Virginia, to Denver. In every location, the medical professionals, the lab workers, the staff at every level have taken VERY good care of me.
Thank you the your thorough analysis. I have been with Kaiser for almost 60 of my 65 years. I want to move away for the Peoples Republic of CA, but want to stay with Kaiser of similar.
Dr. Bricker, excellent video and framework to the Kaiser model. I have been with Kaiser for the last 24 years,, since moving to CA. Overall, their care has been good for me and my family. I think where they can improve is with complex care and specialized treatment, which is my point for you to consider, and that is, Kaiser’s relationship to Academic Medical Centers, knowing that they can not treat everything in their model. Is that a factor or not to their succes?.
well, if its any indication of kaiser permanente's practices, after my daughter died in the ICU of the kaiser permanente in south san francisco after 3 prior ER visits and never admitted her, I started receiving invoices and medical insurance questionnaires.
Lol watching an American trying to reinvent the wheel when you can just looking at the rest of the develop word and healthcare works there to realize how insane our for profit system is.
When a payer and provider is the same, isnt there a conflict of interest? I feel HMOs are good for preventative care, but good luck if there is something catastrophic
Even doctors on salary but who work for the same payer who pays their salary will have incentives to save the payer the money . . . which may kickback to the doctors as bonus.
This is very interesting, thanks Dr Bricker. I do believe we have a hospital integrated system similar to Kaiser's here in Texas, it's called the Baylor Scott & White, and offers it's own Advantage plan as well. Would it be possible to do a video on Baylor's system as well?
To be fair to Kaiser, all insurances are happy to take your money but all of them also don’t want to take pay for you to get treatment. I’m currently with Kaiser and so far it’s been good. I also did research my primary care doctor before choosing her and well I’m lucky I have a good one. But that’s my experience so far.
Hawaii has a large base of state and federal workers, and a tradition of unionized longshoreman, and plantation workers. Henry Kaiser in his later years, spent many years in Hawaii and developed its Hawaii Kai and harbor sections. Hawaii, for many years, has mandated that employers provide for their employees, so there was built-in demand. Kaiser also provided a slightly lower-cost plan to employers compared to traditional indemnity plans. Because of Hawaii's isolation, Kaiser's one-stop shop was an attractive plan for employers. At the start, in the California dam projects (the Permanente River!), in the 1930's and 40's, there was a kind of sympathy between Kaiser's workers, their bosses, and the Kaiser organization that one can only describe as paternalistic: Care from cradle to grave. Hawaii was highly receptive to this attitude. For many years, Kaiser's novel concept was viewed by those outside Kaiser as "socialistic", because the care was not fee-for-service. Kaiser, the original managed-care organization, has the problem of breaking into new markets beyond its original West Coast, industrial base because of its huge capital start-up costs(as mentioned) as well as antipathy from a general population that doesn't really want its care managed. A big problem for Kaiser has been the quality of its leadership. Complacent from the success it achieved as an alternative to traditional fee-for service and buoyed by its mass of government and industrial-era workers, it squandered many years of expertise in the delivery of managed care. It could not coordinate efficiently, its various regions, hospitals and clinics. Centered in California, Kaiser struggled even there to shepherd their massive system. And today, the nurses unions are often at odds with their managers. The result has been a system with ragged edges where things slip through the cracks, creating very bad "optics" as well as real negligence. It is certainly quite good care, but it should be even better. That's my two cents.
Workers are rude and entitled. Especially San Leandro Kaiser front workers. Bad attitudes raised by wolves. They don’t care about you period. It’s all a business front. Most good staff are retired. The new ones are sheep.
I completely agree! They are snobby, moody, rude, bossy, and ungodly. Dont ever go there, instead just try to take care of your health by not smoking, drinking, or eating bad food. They never diagnose you properly and I think it done on purpose so you can keep coming back so they can keep billing you. It's all a business front like you said 👍💯
I agree. I have a long history of medical conditions and disability. The best Dr I ever had retired from Kaiser two years ago. He was fantastic for 12 years and the only reason I stayed at Kaiser. Kaiser started dictating to him how to provide care and he ended up feeling he failed as a dr bc he could no longer follow the Hippocratic oath, and retired. I’m still grieving the loss of that fantastic Dr.
It has a lot to do with the history of Kaiser. They started during WWII taking care of the workers at the Kaiser shipyards. Many of the shipyard workers came from the mid-west, even Dust Bowl refugees. Many had never been to a doctor in their life. Kaiser had them all doing exercises before their shift started each day and gave them vitamins. Kaiser has been described as "assembly line medicine". That's how they keep the costs down. Kaiser is very good at preventative medicine. I've been with Kaiser for 25 years and I'm a two time cancer survivor and now I'm being treated for a new cancer. My experience with Kaiser doctors has been mostly good, especially with the specialists.
After my recent experience with Kaiser. I'm seriously surprised more of their doctors haven't met grim fates due to the way they treat people.......only a matter of time.
no, Kaiser is corrupt and thank you for the video, but the corruption is beyond state and should be investigated at the federal level. I bet you if patients could get their stories together, and include my many personal experiences, it would make for one hell of a,(and very successful ),documentary or some special investigative news story. There's a whole lot of corruption and dirt going on than most people know, or think they know!
They don't care about you and all of their doctors are evil with no heart. At first I was clueless to this but if you go there they wont help you for real, they'll just send you home in pain. I had to go to a completely different outside doctor to find out what's wrong with me.
Kaiser does not care about their patients at all. I’ve been with them for 16+ years and finally looking into going elsewhere bc their standard of care has gone in the trash. Now they are allowing their pharmacy to dictate which RXs they will fill too. It’s all about the profits to them.
They once charged me 150$ for a flu vaccine they said was “free” and I went to the ER the other day. Ik I’ll be in debt so at least it’s nice to see I’m not the only person wronged. Still though extremely depressing, I had overcome my depression but looks like debt is here to make it come back. I have the luck of the average lottery ticket player but for life, what a bummer of a day.
We have been with Kaiser in California for over 30 years with employer plans and now Covered California (ACA). They have done a good job for us. I will likely use them for Medicare.
Dr. Bricker, Two other stats important from the early 90's is the failure of MaxiCare in TX, CA and other markets. MaxiCare's model at the time was I believe a profit sharing model with the doctors and when they went bankrupt those doctors lost their investments. Compound this with the transition to triple option plans after the HMOs of the late 80's were finally absorbed into the larger players. US HealthCare was absorbed by Aetna, and those that had their own HMO or HMO style product started to bring those closer together. Kaiser wasn't ready for that during the 90's. This recent expansion has legs to it as Geisinger has a very tight relationship with both their doctors and their markets, similar to UPMC in PA. This will bode well for them if internal politics and market dynamics remain as excited about this as they are today.
Here is the real question. Is kaiser a health insurance company that runs its own hospitals or is it a doctors network that provides its own membership.
Kaiser's logo (Three people above a sun) represents three distinct parts of Kaiser Permanente. 1 is Kaiser Foundation Hospitals. That organization fully runs all aspects of their hospitals. The 2nd is TPMG or The Permanente Medical Group. This is their network of doctors and specialists for Outpatient services. The last one is KFHP or Kaiser Foundation Health Plan. KFHP is the equivalent to a medical insurance company. So... 1/3 of Kaiser is an Insurance company selling insurance to corporations, government entities, and individuals. 1/3 is its own hospitals. They built them and run them fully on their own. 1/3 is that doctor network you asked about for its own membership. So... they encompass all of it. This allows Kaiser to be able to tell people up-front what the costs are for services since these entities are all integrated.
I am a Kaiser employee for 17 years, and I agreed Kaiser is not perfect but what hospital is?! As you mentioned doc, you can’t please everyone, I like working & being a patient of Kaiser.
How can you support Kaiser they give all the money to the ceo not to the hard working doctors and nursss no bonuses to them and they discriminate them they are piece of shit people thinking they make more then any other hospital which is not true they are all bullshit
@@jupirena8429 sounds like you’re just a bitter *Member* if you’re not a Kaiser member then kudos to you that means you must be a satisfied member somewhere else and that’s the most important thing to you & your health. Last time, I check nobody is being force to be a Kaiser member that’s including myself, I’m given an option every year to switch out my health insurance. We patients/members will always have the right to move along until we’re happy till we find that hospital or clinic that makes us feel that we’re being listened & helped.
Curious inquiry: they are PCPs on phone or in person for the appointment, of 15 minutes only? A PCP announced it's 10 minutes on phone, 20 minutes in person.
@@ahealthcarezDr. & MBA, a humble me to question you, can I? You seemed contracting yourself in two (2) major issues or advocates: one (1) video you labeled as "value-based approches & integrated health management" model is for Losers!? Then another video (2) you loudly applauded "value based & integrated-health management" model with four (4) cores to have achieved successes with 12 millions members (3yrs ago) in 9 states (only)!? How about now, after 3 yrs in 2023, still 12 millions or up or down or equal? Thanks if you could face these questions.
Doc, do you think Kaiser would be successful if they were to try again in NY now? NY has strong union for nurses. Is that not sufficient? What strong presence of union is needed for its success?
Great question. Union on the employer client side… Kaiser needs large population of employees and their families to get started. Maybe autoworkers around Detroit? If there are large unions in NY (state employee unions? Police? Fire?), then maybe. Thank you for watching.
If you had a system like Partners in MA; would they make more or less money under a Kaiser model than current model? I can see why there might be friction vs Kaiser, but there's massive systems allover the US (via provider acquisition) that could potentially switch, no? Why haven't they tried?
Great question. They would make less revenue than the current Partners revenue, but their operating margins would be much higher than the current Partners system. IMO the reason hospital systems don’t switch is because it would dramatically decrease their incentive for specialist care, tests and procedures and the specialists within these systems do not want that to happen. Thank you for the comment and questions.
Do you think Las Vegas would be a better area for Kaiser to try and open up here? A lot of people from Hawaii are starting to move to Las Vegas and has become the ninth island. I find myself missing Kaiser Hospitals as the service and staff was great and the positives of their services as you mentioned, was the low OOP prices.
I had a choice to be Kaiser Permanente long time ago forced through my stupid UAW about the same time Fidelity stole My money and the union did nothing most likely because they got a kick back Kaiser Permanente is bad very bad do not trust these doctors one out of 40 that I met at Kaiser was sincere professional talented one doctor helped me after I finally started yelling and screaming yelling and screaming about my head my head my head they wanted to stick wires in my ears it was not my ears the good doctor The talented doctor finally figured out I needed to equalize pressure I had a problem with my ecstation tube.... after hours and days finally finally finally I was in so much pain so you have to yell and scream at these idiots before they will come to your aid and help you seriously
@@ahealthcarez I think Kaiser is successful in WA state. They make a lot of money here off their clients without providing medical care. They made plenty of money off me and saved themselves $1400 by refusing me medical treatment. When you don't care if someone is disabled for a few years, so long as you get to keep $1400, I'll bet you make a lot of money.
yes, I was a Kaiser patient in California and was seen in Kaiser Washington on a visitors pass for 8 months. I had a totoally different experience there. There offices and pharmacies are nearly empty. The doctor talked to me for 45 minutes at each visit, they gave me a bunch of new patient gifts and I never had to wait longer than 10 minutes in pharmacy. I just kept forgetting to bring cash. The pharmacy doesn't take any type of card, only cash.
@@michaelwilde545 Fed. gov. gives MA (medicare advantage) plans each beneficiary per person annually up to or around $20k now 2023 ($15840/2021), so the value-based, integrated-health systems surely good at its first step in preventive cares, but how about later on, if patients get sick or really seriously? Incentives and bonus payouts, + % annual salaries increase on its employees mostly possible based on how this health field individual worked tirelessly and tightly followed the internally notorious footsteps (to the outside world that medical field is notoriously secretive - hospitals, doctors, nurses, facilities and, administrations) of, their strict guidelines, for which, some are to the public, some are, implying only, of unspeakable? Your example is a best eg., my personal experience lately of 2 to more cases, had justified my belief on you and others. My only one and the first one request for a specialist who repeatedly and loudly to downplay my severe and the sudden symptoms to justify I didn't need any further treatment which will be a surgery (to save his boss' costs). But if in other regular hospital or doctors, they will run variety of tests and suggest surgery immediately. To me personally, I would prefer conservative and alternative approaches first, which is the Kaiser's first step, but anything further, Kaiser failed, like your and my case. The specialist never asked and concerned why I had my urgent call and what's my extreme discomforts for coming over ... They just asked you to spend your own money for a pair of very deep and thick eye glasses (certainly some limited coverage) rather in higher costs if surgery, which Gov. Medicare might cover limited on the agreement that MA's willing to take it as "at risk". Regular Doctors jump to surgeries for higher profits from the beginning (greedy) vs Value based - integrated health model ignored your surgery necessities later on, also for their own higher profits, but saving their costs to properly treat patients. Who and which one is better? You decide. (Still try to learn more and dig it out more😢!)
I don’t understand all this hate Towards Kaiser. It works In Union strong states. I’ve never had any issues. I’ve always had great care. They’re a great employer as well, after traveling to several states and working for different medical centers and institutions, I wouldn’t trade KP for any other.
When i was healthy kaiser was great... but the minute I had a serious health injury I found obtaining proper tests and care through kaiser extremely difficult. And it wasn't through the fault of the doctors/nurses, but rather the adminstrators. When I switched to another health insurance I had no difficulties obtaining the right tests and proper care. Many of my co-workers shared the same experience. While it's certainly anyone's personal choice on what insurance to choose i personally would never advise anyone to choose kaiser as an option.
@@darkbeansidhe5385 Which one is better can you specify ASAP if you don't mind? I had a real difficulty to obtain the one, the only one, and the first one from my PCP to a specialist, of struggling, lately, even on an urgent call bc unexpected symptoms, from KP! I normally don't see Drs at all bc so healthy in life. But when you aged gradually your eyes (others would be hearing issues) would lose vision acuity, and other eye problems and eye injuries. Not sure if it's this particular PCP's problems, or their internal restricted guidelines, or due to the "special treatment" toward me, only? Normally I used Aetna or Cigna PPO in life untill Medicare Advantage plans. Seemed lost freedom from PPO to see Drs on MA or other plans. The PPO choice is better when you r young or/& still healthy &/or wealthy. HMO seemed quite limited in your choices and better in your well being. The person above who favored KP was in a position for working for, not to be a patient's experience. Isn't true?
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About 15 years ago I had my first child delivered by Kaiser San Francisco. My sweet daughter was almost born dead because the lack of proper monitor and care in the delivery room! We switched to Blue Cross since then. This year in 2022 we decided to switch back to try for a year because the premium cost of blue cross is getting too high. I went to see a dr with my two teenage daughters. My experience was not good, we chose a family dr, when we arrived, they told me my daughter is now over 14, she should see the dr by herself, at that time I was ok. Then when it was my turn, they sent my daughter in the room with me with the dr. And when the dr needed to check my body, she had me undressed in front of her and my daughter, no partition, no any privacy. I had not problem going undressed with my daughters. Just didn’t understand why they treated the teens and the adults so differently. If the teens needed some privacy or sense of security talking to the dr, should they understand the parent also may like to get some privacy! Nope! They are just indifferent and wanted to have it done ASAP and moved on. With this experience, Blue Cross Is not too expensive!
I’m sorry that happened to you. Thank you for sharing your experience.
The stupid law in Ca States that after 12 years old children’s info is private from the parents.
It's probably so the teenagers can openly discuss sex, birth control or abuse.
I realize this reply to your comment is very untimely. But, I think the reason is because they are giving teens more privacy in case they are "sexually active?" It's truly insane that things are the way they are . . . I totally agree that your experience is unacceptable.
Why there aren't more Kaiser around the country because their damn medical sucks
A lot of people feel the same way you do. Thank you for watching.
Well, I agree, they do take your premiums. That's all though. They took my premiums and left me disabled because they refused me treatment. All I needed was physical therapy for a ruptured tendon. Kaiser said no. Kaiser is evil and will keep you from getting medical treatment.
Thank you for sharing your story. That’s not good. I’ve heard others make similar comments and that is not the right way to treat people.
Yep they denied me a hernia surgery the other day
I gave him two chances because HealthNet was an expensive version of them. Now I have one year to go until I can collect Medicare and I'm going on scan insurance
it's true they are really awful
Was the tendon rupture the result of cipro or levaquin?
Am 75, RN, just stopped working 3 years ago. Worked for Kaiser for 45 years. Had heart valve surgery 15 years ago, one if my brothers had 2 bouts of cancer, lived for 26 years. Did not die of cancer. Only thing I can say about anyone complaining is that we do not have the patient’s charts to see what really happened. Your primary schedules specialists appoints, scans labs whatever is needed while you are in the exam room. Excellent care. You can call at 3:00 am, speak with RN advice nurse and get help. You may not like what you are being told and you may not follow up but you will be helped.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Run, don't walk away from Kaiser. I have been trying to make a CT exam for over 60 days. Impossible to get thru.
The doctors may be okay but meaningless when zero support. F-
Thank you for sharing your experience.
File complaints with the Dept of Managed Health Care. You must be able to get a test within 15 business days, otherwise they have to send you out of network. Grievances are what Kaiser understands, especially when you follow through with the Dept of Managed Health Care.
Kaiser is hugely successful in Washington State, and I have had nothing less than excellent, high-quality care from them. I was originally with another HMO, Group Health Cooperative, which merged with Kaiser in the early 2000s. GHC was great, top-notch care. Since the merger, I've only received better care. I'm a high-risk patient, with compound conditions and require a high level of coordinated care. I've not wanted for anything, nor have I had to wait for care and receiving out of network specialty care or hospitalization has never been a problem or an extra expense. I would not want to receive care anywhere else. In all, I have been a member of GHC/KPWa for 42 years.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
They do attract top talent due to its benefits. IF may be frustrating at times, but they do have top talent.
Thanks for this video and explanation, very informative appreciate it !
Thank you for watching!!
Thank you for the overview.I worked as a nurse in management when Kaiser tried to enter upstate NY healthcare. It was a complete fail ! Their success is all about the bottom line, not about the patients. WHPUOS =worked hours per unit of service , and that unit was measured CONSTANTLY! How long were employees on the phone with a pt, how long did it take to check a pt in and out , how long the md was in the room with a pt. EVERYTHING was measured, and needed a plan to improve the NUMBERS , not improve the pt care.Staff had to concentrate more on that the pts.If your numbers were high you received great bonuses. Our MD's and surgeons refused to compromise pt care in this manner.And Kaiser pulled out within two years.In my opinion, it was the BEST decision for upstate NY !
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Really enjoyed your explanation Doc. Thank you.
Would be great to learn with few examples of how they leverage this integrated vertical system to optimize the customer experience and reduce costs.
Also, I'd like to suggest you to include your name in the channel name. I feel that will give your channel a bit more edge with the Personal Branding.
Thank you for your comment and your suggestion.
I have been with Kaiser Permanente since the early 1980s from Sacramento, to Northern Virginia, to Denver. In every location, the medical professionals, the lab workers, the staff at every level have taken VERY good care of me.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Thank you the your thorough analysis. I have been with Kaiser for almost 60 of my 65 years. I want to move away for the Peoples Republic of CA, but want to stay with Kaiser of similar.
You could still have Kaiser in Denver, Atlanta and Washington DC.
@@ahealthcarezare these the only other cities that have Kaiser? Which insurance do you recommend for Florida? Thank you very much in advance 🙏
Dr. Bricker, excellent video and framework to the Kaiser model. I have been with Kaiser for the last 24 years,, since moving to CA. Overall, their care has been good for me and my family. I think where they can improve is with complex care and specialized treatment, which is my point for you to consider, and that is, Kaiser’s relationship to Academic Medical Centers, knowing that they can not treat everything in their model. Is that a factor or not to their succes?.
Complex care is an important area for success. Thank you for watching.
well, if its any indication of kaiser permanente's practices, after my daughter died in the ICU of the kaiser permanente in south san francisco after 3 prior ER visits and never admitted her, I started receiving invoices and medical insurance questionnaires.
I’m so sorry.
Lol watching an American trying to reinvent the wheel when you can just looking at the rest of the develop word and healthcare works there to realize how insane our for profit system is.
Great point. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and for watching!
Right!!! The whole system is screwed!!!!!
Thank you for adding common sense into this discussion.
Yeah sure, because America SUBSIDIZES the rest of the world. That's how they afford it all.
Ditto
When a payer and provider is the same, isnt there a conflict of interest? I feel HMOs are good for preventative care, but good luck if there is something catastrophic
Best thing to do is have doctors on salary so no financial conflict either way. That’s what Mayo Clinic and Cleveland Clinic do.
Even doctors on salary but who work for the same payer who pays their salary will have incentives to save the payer the money . . . which may kickback to the doctors as bonus.
@@martinluu3291 good point, i hear the bonuses can be quite substantial, even rivaling the salary
Thanks Dr. Bricker, i don't see a link to the article you mentioned in the video!
Thank you for pointing out. Here it is: th-cam.com/video/M-YgihI3XH0/w-d-xo.html
This is very interesting, thanks Dr Bricker. I do believe we have a hospital integrated system similar to Kaiser's here in Texas, it's called the Baylor Scott & White, and offers it's own Advantage plan as well. Would it be possible to do a video on Baylor's system as well?
Thank you for your suggestion.
To be fair to Kaiser, all insurances are happy to take your money but all of them also don’t want to take pay for you to get treatment. I’m currently with Kaiser and so far it’s been good. I also did research my primary care doctor before choosing her and well I’m lucky I have a good one. But that’s my experience so far.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Kaiser should be torn down and this healthcare system is terrible especially for people who have serious conditions.
Thank you for sharing your views.
It's so terrble!
Wow in what way? You mean the doctors are terrible? Which one do you recommend and for which state?
I have Kaiser in California and last summer Kaiser sent my son to the Mayo Clinic in Phoenix where he had two total liver transplants. He's fine now.
So how are they in Hawaii? Because of the government jobs? Or federal employees?
Hawaii has a large base of state and federal workers, and a tradition of unionized longshoreman, and plantation workers. Henry Kaiser in his later years, spent many years in Hawaii and developed its Hawaii Kai and harbor sections. Hawaii, for many years, has mandated that employers provide for their employees, so there was built-in demand. Kaiser also provided a slightly lower-cost plan to employers compared to traditional indemnity plans. Because of Hawaii's isolation, Kaiser's one-stop shop was an attractive plan for employers. At the start, in the California dam projects (the Permanente River!), in the 1930's and 40's, there was a kind of sympathy between Kaiser's workers, their bosses, and the Kaiser organization that one can only describe as paternalistic: Care from cradle to grave. Hawaii was highly receptive to this attitude. For many years, Kaiser's novel concept was viewed by those outside Kaiser as "socialistic", because the care was not fee-for-service. Kaiser, the original managed-care organization, has the problem of breaking into new markets beyond its original West Coast, industrial base because of its huge capital start-up costs(as mentioned) as well as antipathy from a general population that doesn't really want its care managed. A big problem for Kaiser has been the quality of its leadership. Complacent from the success it achieved as an alternative to traditional fee-for service and buoyed by its mass of government and industrial-era workers, it squandered many years of expertise in the delivery of managed care. It could not coordinate efficiently, its various regions, hospitals and clinics. Centered in California, Kaiser struggled even there to shepherd their massive system. And today, the nurses unions are often at odds with their managers. The result has been a system with ragged edges where things slip through the cracks, creating very bad "optics" as well as real negligence. It is certainly quite good care, but it should be even better. That's my two cents.
"Please," Bring Kaiser Permanente to Florida. Sarasota to Naples would be a good area. It's a thumbs up for everyone. 👍.
Thank you for your comment.
update please! Kaiser premiums are sometimes among the highest nowadays.
Thank you for sharing your feedback.
Workers are rude and entitled. Especially San Leandro Kaiser front workers. Bad attitudes raised by wolves. They don’t care about you period. It’s all a business front. Most good staff are retired. The new ones are sheep.
Thank you for watching and sharing your point of view.
I completely agree! They are snobby, moody, rude, bossy, and ungodly. Dont ever go there, instead just try to take care of your health by not smoking, drinking, or eating bad food. They never diagnose you properly and I think it done on purpose so you can keep coming back so they can keep billing you. It's all a business front like you said 👍💯
I agree. I have a long history of medical conditions and disability. The best Dr I ever had retired from Kaiser two years ago. He was fantastic for 12 years and the only reason I stayed at Kaiser. Kaiser started dictating to him how to provide care and he ended up feeling he failed as a dr bc he could no longer follow the Hippocratic oath, and retired. I’m still grieving the loss of that fantastic Dr.
@@perfectlyimperfect7373 when you mentioned Hippocratic Oath, I cried like a baby, in heart, tearing endlessly...! 😪😭
It has a lot to do with the history of Kaiser. They started during WWII taking care of the workers at the Kaiser shipyards. Many of the shipyard workers came from the mid-west, even Dust Bowl refugees. Many had never been to a doctor in their life. Kaiser had them all doing exercises before their shift started each day and gave them vitamins. Kaiser has been described as "assembly line medicine". That's how they keep the costs down. Kaiser is very good at preventative medicine. I've been with Kaiser for 25 years and I'm a two time cancer survivor and now I'm being treated for a new cancer. My experience with Kaiser doctors has been mostly good, especially with the specialists.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
After my recent experience with Kaiser. I'm seriously surprised more of their doctors haven't met grim fates due to the way they treat people.......only a matter of time.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Yeah doctors should leave Kaiser screw them there are so many better hospitals out there
Thanks for the video, sir!
Thank YOU for watching!!
Do you believe their business model cares about the health of the patient?
Great point. Key is to have doctors on salary with their pay not bonused on restricting care.
no, Kaiser is corrupt and thank you for the video, but the corruption is beyond state and should be investigated at the federal level. I bet you if patients could get their stories together, and include my many personal experiences, it would make for one hell of a,(and very successful ),documentary or some special investigative news story. There's a whole lot of corruption and dirt going on than most people know, or think they know!
They don't care about you and all of their doctors are evil with no heart. At first I was clueless to this but if you go there they wont help you for real, they'll just send you home in pain. I had to go to a completely different outside doctor to find out what's wrong with me.
Kaiser does not care about their patients at all. I’ve been with them for 16+ years and finally looking into going elsewhere bc their standard of care has gone in the trash. Now they are allowing their pharmacy to dictate which RXs they will fill too. It’s all about the profits to them.
@@perfectlyimperfect7373 what are your choices or alternatives?
They once charged me 150$ for a flu vaccine they said was “free” and I went to the ER the other day. Ik I’ll be in debt so at least it’s nice to see I’m not the only person wronged. Still though extremely depressing, I had overcome my depression but looks like debt is here to make it come back. I have the luck of the average lottery ticket player but for life, what a bummer of a day.
I’m sorry to hear that.
We have been with Kaiser in California for over 30 years with employer plans and now Covered California (ACA). They have done a good job for us. I will likely use them for Medicare.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Dr. Bricker,
Two other stats important from the early 90's is the failure of MaxiCare in TX, CA and other markets. MaxiCare's model at the time was I believe a profit sharing model with the doctors and when they went bankrupt those doctors lost their investments. Compound this with the transition to triple option plans after the HMOs of the late 80's were finally absorbed into the larger players. US HealthCare was absorbed by Aetna, and those that had their own HMO or HMO style product started to bring those closer together. Kaiser wasn't ready for that during the 90's.
This recent expansion has legs to it as Geisinger has a very tight relationship with both their doctors and their markets, similar to UPMC in PA. This will bode well for them if internal politics and market dynamics remain as excited about this as they are today.
Super. Thank you for your comment.
You noted places it failed in the 90s, but what about more recently, like leaving OH in the early 2010s?
Thank you for sharing.
Here is the real question. Is kaiser a health insurance company that runs its own hospitals or is it a doctors network that provides its own membership.
Great question!
It runs it’s own hospitals. They also contract out with other facilities.
Kaiser's logo (Three people above a sun) represents three distinct parts of Kaiser Permanente. 1 is Kaiser Foundation Hospitals. That organization fully runs all aspects of their hospitals. The 2nd is TPMG or The Permanente Medical Group. This is their network of doctors and specialists for Outpatient services. The last one is KFHP or Kaiser Foundation Health Plan. KFHP is the equivalent to a medical insurance company. So... 1/3 of Kaiser is an Insurance company selling insurance to corporations, government entities, and individuals. 1/3 is its own hospitals. They built them and run them fully on their own. 1/3 is that doctor network you asked about for its own membership. So... they encompass all of it. This allows Kaiser to be able to tell people up-front what the costs are for services since these entities are all integrated.
I am a Kaiser employee for 17 years, and I agreed Kaiser is not perfect but what hospital is?! As you mentioned doc, you can’t please everyone, I like working & being a patient of Kaiser.
Thank you for watching and for your input. Glad you like where you are!
How can you support Kaiser they give all the money to the ceo not to the hard working doctors and nursss no bonuses to them and they discriminate them they are piece of shit people thinking they make more then any other hospital which is not true they are all bullshit
Correction: kaiser Permanente does not have patients. They have members. Have you any idea why nurse?
@@jupirena8429 sounds like you’re just a bitter *Member* if you’re not a Kaiser member then kudos to you that means you must be a satisfied member somewhere else and that’s the most important thing to you & your health. Last time, I check nobody is being force to be a Kaiser member that’s including myself, I’m given an option every year to switch out my health insurance. We patients/members will always have the right to move along until we’re happy till we find that hospital or clinic that makes us feel that we’re being listened & helped.
@@Foxexpress163 ... have you any idea why?
Really good video.
Thank you for the feedback and thank you for watching.
Watch out for Kaiser doctors! They only spent 15 mins on their patients, and prescribe lots of medicine.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Curious inquiry: they are PCPs on phone or in person for the appointment, of 15 minutes only? A PCP announced it's 10 minutes on phone, 20 minutes in person.
@@ahealthcarezDr. & MBA, a humble me to question you, can I? You seemed contracting yourself in two (2) major issues or advocates: one (1) video you labeled as "value-based approches & integrated health management" model is for Losers!? Then another video (2) you loudly applauded "value based & integrated-health management" model with four (4) cores to have achieved successes with 12 millions members (3yrs ago) in 9 states (only)!? How about now, after 3 yrs in 2023, still 12 millions or up or down or equal? Thanks if you could face these questions.
Kaiser should have built hospitals and clinics in TEXAS all that land out there.
Thank you for your comment.
… Kaiser Permanente was actually kicked out of the great State of Texas. They actually care for the wellbeing of their citizens…
Is it the same in the Philippines??
I got my 1st quarterly payment last week...
Doc, do you think Kaiser would be successful if they were to try again in NY now?
NY has strong union for nurses. Is that not sufficient? What strong presence of union is needed for its success?
Great question. Union on the employer client side… Kaiser needs large population of employees and their families to get started. Maybe autoworkers around Detroit?
If there are large unions in NY (state employee unions? Police? Fire?), then maybe.
Thank you for watching.
Nah I prefer if Kaiser wasn’t in NY screw them they are ass holes there are so much better medical offices and hospitals in New York
THEY CANNOT! Kaiser Permanente was actually kicked out of the great State of New York!
If you had a system like Partners in MA; would they make more or less money under a Kaiser model than current model? I can see why there might be friction vs Kaiser, but there's massive systems allover the US (via provider acquisition) that could potentially switch, no? Why haven't they tried?
Great question. They would make less revenue than the current Partners revenue, but their operating margins would be much higher than the current Partners system. IMO the reason hospital systems don’t switch is because it would dramatically decrease their incentive for specialist care, tests and procedures and the specialists within these systems do not want that to happen. Thank you for the comment and questions.
Do you think Las Vegas would be a better area for Kaiser to try and open up here? A lot of people from Hawaii are starting to move to Las Vegas and has become the ninth island. I find myself missing Kaiser Hospitals as the service and staff was great and the positives of their services as you mentioned, was the low OOP prices.
Thank you for watching and sharing your experience.
I am taking only 1mg, how this be dengerous medicine/drag?
I had a choice to be Kaiser Permanente long time ago forced through my stupid UAW about the same time Fidelity stole My money and the union did nothing most likely because they got a kick back Kaiser Permanente is bad very bad do not trust these doctors one out of 40 that I met at Kaiser was sincere professional talented one doctor helped me after I finally started yelling and screaming yelling and screaming about my head my head my head they wanted to stick wires in my ears it was not my ears the good doctor The talented doctor finally figured out I needed to equalize pressure I had a problem with my ecstation tube.... after hours and days finally finally finally I was in so much pain so you have to yell and scream at these idiots before they will come to your aid and help you seriously
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I have kaiser and if I have a kid, I’ll pay $100 vs $6k at Cigna hdhp
Thank you for your comment.
NW alum tie?
Close. Hopkins Dept of Medicine.
They are the absolute worst. Avoid at all costs givin a choice.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
💖💖💖
Is Kaiser successful in Washington State?
Gods question. They did buy a local HMO there… so that is an additional location for Kaiser.
@@ahealthcarez I think Kaiser is successful in WA state. They make a lot of money here off their clients without providing medical care. They made plenty of money off me and saved themselves $1400 by refusing me medical treatment. When you don't care if someone is disabled for a few years, so long as you get to keep $1400, I'll bet you make a lot of money.
yes, I was a Kaiser patient in California and was seen in Kaiser Washington on a visitors pass for 8 months. I had a totoally different experience there. There offices and pharmacies are nearly empty. The doctor talked to me for 45 minutes at each visit, they gave me a bunch of new patient gifts and I never had to wait longer than 10 minutes in pharmacy. I just kept forgetting to bring cash. The pharmacy doesn't take any type of card, only cash.
@@michaelwilde545 Fed. gov. gives MA (medicare advantage) plans each beneficiary per person annually up to or around $20k now 2023 ($15840/2021), so the value-based, integrated-health systems surely good at its first step in preventive cares, but how about later on, if patients get sick or really seriously? Incentives and bonus payouts, + % annual salaries increase on its employees mostly possible based on how this health field individual worked tirelessly and tightly followed the internally notorious footsteps (to the outside world that medical field is notoriously secretive - hospitals, doctors, nurses, facilities and, administrations) of, their strict guidelines, for which, some are to the public, some are, implying only, of unspeakable?
Your example is a best eg., my personal experience lately of 2 to more cases, had justified my belief on you and others. My only one and the first one request for a specialist who repeatedly and loudly to downplay my severe and the sudden symptoms to justify I didn't need any further treatment which will be a surgery (to save his boss' costs). But if in other regular hospital or doctors, they will run variety of tests and suggest surgery immediately. To me personally, I would prefer conservative and alternative approaches first, which is the Kaiser's first step, but anything further, Kaiser failed, like your and my case. The specialist never asked and concerned why I had my urgent call and what's my extreme discomforts for coming over ... They just asked you to spend your own money for a pair of very deep and thick eye glasses (certainly some limited coverage) rather in higher costs if surgery, which Gov. Medicare might cover limited on the agreement that MA's willing to take it as "at risk".
Regular Doctors jump to surgeries for higher profits from the beginning (greedy) vs Value based - integrated health model ignored your surgery necessities later on, also for their own higher profits, but saving their costs to properly treat patients.
Who and which one is better? You decide.
(Still try to learn more and dig it out more😢!)
kaiser Philippines
I don’t understand all this hate
Towards Kaiser. It works In Union strong states. I’ve never had any issues. I’ve always had great care. They’re a great employer as well, after traveling to several states and working for different medical centers and institutions, I wouldn’t trade KP for any other.
Thank you for watching and sharing your experience.
When i was healthy kaiser was great... but the minute I had a serious health injury I found obtaining proper tests and care through kaiser extremely difficult. And it wasn't through the fault of the doctors/nurses, but rather the adminstrators. When I switched to another health insurance I had no difficulties obtaining the right tests and proper care. Many of my co-workers shared the same experience. While it's certainly anyone's personal choice on what insurance to choose i personally would never advise anyone to choose kaiser as an option.
@@darkbeansidhe5385
Which one is better can you specify ASAP if you don't mind? I had a real difficulty to obtain the one, the only one, and the first one from my PCP to a specialist, of struggling, lately, even on an urgent call bc unexpected symptoms, from KP! I normally don't see Drs at all bc so healthy in life. But when you aged gradually your eyes (others would be hearing issues) would lose vision acuity, and other eye problems and eye injuries. Not sure if it's this particular PCP's problems, or their internal restricted guidelines, or due to the "special treatment" toward me, only? Normally I used Aetna or Cigna PPO in life untill Medicare Advantage plans. Seemed lost freedom from PPO to see Drs on MA or other plans. The PPO choice is better when you r young or/& still healthy &/or wealthy. HMO seemed quite limited in your choices and better in your well being.
The person above who favored KP was in a position for working for, not to be a patient's experience. Isn't true?
Kaiser is the best integrated model in the US
Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts.
I don't like kaiser the nurse couldn't fine the vein she kept poking me with that dam needle. Get me another nurse she found it 😂
Thank you for sharing your experience
Kaiser sucks
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.