Basic Service of early 60s VM record changer Part 2/2
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Servicing an early 60s VM mechanism. This was only a basic service, as I did not take apart the arm. However, as you can see in the videos this should have gotten the full service. I'll do another video with a full service later when I get another changer in.
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Back in the 60s, I repaired and sharpened the slide die at VM Corp in Benton Harbor, Mi. It's too bad the company went out of business in the mid 70s, Vic Miller (VM), had hundreds of employees, and several manufacturing facilities in the area. I worked in the tool room until 1972. The slide die was a single source tool and if it was out of service, it was priority one to get it back to building #18 ready to run. There was a 77 year old gentleman that maintained all of the gear dies, and he let it be known that nobody else touched them!
Jordan Pier, I loved this two part video I followed your step by step videos to service my hand-me-down Zenith, Z565W1. It works!!!! If there was an Oscar to TH-cam instructional videos, you got it man!
The one thing I couldn't fix, and would love to get your input about, is the plate stops before the records drops down and the needle arm launches. It requires a spinning push in order to keep on running automatically. Same at the end of playing the record, the arm goes up and stops, I manually spin the plate and it ends the cycle normally.
Thank you.
Your idler may have hardened up over the years? Did you get it refurbished? If not, to make sure it is the idler, remove the platter and squeeze the outside of the idler to see if it has any flexibility left. It should give somewhat if in good shape.
The most informative video I have watched. Thank you so much. I now have the courage to try to save mine from the dumpster!
Thanks again Jordan for posting this video. I am restoring my parents’ Zenith console from 1965, and the underside is exactly like this one. Without this video, I would be lost. Thanks again.
I just used your tutorial to service my '60 VM, and it now works great---thanks for the very informative and detailed videos
Jordan, I watched several of your videos and tackled a VM 1297 from 1965, your videos are very well shot and very informative, thank you for the time and effort that you have put in to show us what it takes to keep these old record changers running.
Jordan, thanks for the video, it inspired me to take the job on in my 1959 Zenith.
Exactly. I have found on these old zeniths if you blast all these with carb cleaner wirks wonders
Please, no xacto knife. Scraping removes the plating and creates ridges which mean friction. Use a scotchbrite pad and solvent to remove hardened grease.
Hey Jordan, you're the best. I was dreading repairing my 1297 b/c the explosion diagram looks like a nightmare. Without your video I would have been screwed. How does the reject rod stay in the hole on the control lever?
I was recently working on a unit just like this and had to hunt down the ball bearing just like you did. Pretty much identical
Thanks for the uploads. That VM changer arm will not set down properly until the turntable mat is glued down flat and the 10 inch button with spring are centered in the hole through the mat.(20:00) I bet you figured that out though.
When you took apart the first part of the toner arm, there was a small e clip that you never put back on . .
Hi,
Instead of using a scraper, I used some carburetor cleaner to thoroughly clean out all the old grease from some of those tight areas. It worked really fast and well.
Regards, Tom
THOMMGB yeah exactly what I was thinking with all those scratches into the metal. (Which will really create some headaches)
Agree Tom, best to avoid using a scraper and create undesirable scratches; most of those surfaces are bearing surfaces (even though it's sheet metal). Jordan often correctly mentions many of these mechanisms are tight tolerance and need very little to create timing problems.
Thank you Jordan for two awesome detailed videos; great aptitude, voice and patience.
@@abueno6335 Also, I used some Super Lube which is synthetic grease. I've heard that it will never harden, for what that's worth. I picked mine up at Harbor Freight using, of course, my 20% off coupon. It only cost around $6.99 a tube a couple of years back.
DONT MOLEST THE SPRING! DONT MOLEST THE SPRING!
The over arm gets bent up and after oiling the shaft The screw that holds the arm to the shaft should be checked and tighten. This will stop the tone arm from going to the shut off position on the last record on the center spindle. Over arm may need to be bent down a little so it lays level on the record.
Thank you for this video. So I followed your steps. Some felt a little weird because the piece that holds the ball bearing and needle in is different from what you have. I have a 68 telex phonola. Well, the motor is fine but when I assembled the parts back together trying seeing if I can get it to spin. It doesn’t spin freely. I just may have missed something and need to go back over the two videos....
not sure if you are still monitoring this vid, but I am refurbing a vintage magnavox with very similar main lever slide parts. I have spent hours trying to get the reject control to work and I cant. It seems like the attached section you start the video on, is not latching to whatever it is that starts the auto load/ reject process. The system seems to work manually when I move the main gear underneath. but moving the "REJ" control still does nothing. I have cleaned an lubed everything and looked for hours to try and find the issue. im wondering of the other two small motors in the unit are not working? No idea if they even have anything to do with the auto process. thanks for the video!
Would you happen to have a video with full service of the tone arm? I have a clicking when the turntable rotates and the tone arm becomes frozen.
Thank you for the informative video. My VM changer from a 1967 Zenith console had the same problem shutting off after dropping one record, I'll have to lubricate around the arm mechanism and see if that cures it.
That over arm has been bent up from lifting it at the spindle end and the shaft not lubed. That is why it shuts off instead of playing the first record. Slightly bend the over arm down and oil the back shaft, problem fixed.
Excellent!
I'm lucky to have 2 of these VM record changers and one of them is for parts (can't find the needle and it has other issues)
I lost one of the springs (swore like mad) took one from the spare parts unit.
but I got it working after 2 attempts the first problem I ran across when I put it back together was that It would shoot the needle across the record
but after taking it apart again and reassembling it it doesn't do that.
Does that bearing go down and on the shaft with the bearing case face up or face down? and is there for SURE 2 washers-one below bearing and one above?
Hey.. so I followed your instruction on a recently acquired philco that has a similar mechanism.. it isn’t doing the off function at the end of the record. Can you help?
Hey Jordan, thank you for the great video! Where can I get a new or refurbished idler wheel for my Zenith circle of sound changer. Looks like it’s identical to this one.
A good replacement is sending yours off to the voice of music.
The best replacement is sending it off to Terry's rubber rollers
my changer hasthe power socket under the rear ear end of the tonearm
Thanks for tutorial. I followed along as i did the same to mine. Before the turntable would start then stop if i gave tt a spin it would stop. if i place a record on it will sometimes start and drop then stop. I am stumped what did I do wrong or what should i look at? Thanks for your help
Thanks for the great videos, they're a big help. I'm working on an early 60s VM changer tone arm that misses the record by a quarter inch for any size record. Any idea what causes this?
If it picks up too early, then its a tonearm adjustment, found under the back of the arm on the right. Turn it one direction for further in, one for further out
If it picks up at the end in the right spot but lands far out on the way in you have bigger problems and will need some thorough teardown and troubleshooting
Thank you Jordan, the adjustment screw did the trick. Never sure if turning a screw will foul things up, or not.
Magnavox put changers like that in their portables in the late 60's
So did Philco! I just finished restoring one and it works like new.
@@stephensams709 As did Zenith and Motorola
supertech is good for stuff like that as it leaves a very slippery film that seldom seldom requires new applications
i found the trick to getting the platter on
how did you get the platter to go on so easily?
Jordan, you killed me. I have two of these changers and both have the same problem as the one you serviced where when the last album drops, the tonearm just lifts and resets. What did you do to fix that? It is a apparently a common problem. Please share what you fixed!
look at the overarm mechanism
Did you fix it? i have the same problem, please let me know
@@ricardomatiasruizsantaella5819 yes, I got both working perfectly. There is a little arrow shaped lever. That lever has to move very freely. I had to clean it a bunch with Zippo lighter fluid.
@@nealpetty9659 thank you very much i will try to do it
@@ricardomatiasruizsantaella5819 that little lever is visible at the start of video 2 of 2. Only an inch or so long with a small coil spring just at the end of that long slot.
how did you repair the tonearm?, I have the same problem
Do you have a re-assembly video? I got mine all cleaned out, but must have put something back wrong, because the mechanism is behaving weirdly- when started, a record drops (sometimes), tone arm moves to start and lowers, but as soon as it does, it shuts off. This in turn locks the power lever in the off position, so I have to rotate the platter a few degrees to unlock it, where it repeats that action. If I manually start it (avoid the rej position), it plays fine, but at the end of the record, the arm just sits there, and motor is still spinning.
One other weird thing- if I have a 33 on the platter when I start (with the 10" disk switch/sensor covered by the vinyl), the next album will drop, but now the tone arm goes in to the 10" position, sets down, and shuts off.
Sound like something you could help with?
You need to check the installation of the main slide. The spring metal tab that the record holding arm lever presses on it's likely in the wrong position, causing the end of play slide to be held up all the time - initiating the shutoff cycle when the cycling cam resets.
@@JordanPier Thanks! I took the slide back out, and realized a couple of things were wrong; I don't know the technical names, so it's hard to describe, but the last pawl in the stack that is attached to the tonearm pivot/lift was in the wrong position- it was forward, so compressed the spring and lifted it to the back. And yes, that stack of levers (holding arm lever, shut off lever and aluminum slide) were out of order. Got that sorted out and it works like a charm, thanks!!! PS- thanks for shining a light on the stack at 11:45- that's what helped me the most.
Can you use wd40 on it to oil it good?or camrie 3000? Someone said white lithium grease in the spray can was better. Which would be better?
Lithium grease for points of high pressure and heavy contact and detergent free oil like zoom spout for bearings
Hello Jordan!
I am having a problem with my idler wheel not coming into contact with the motor. I have followed all the steps so far. Any suggestions? I appreciate it!
Idler spring present underneath the turntable?
@@JordanPier I believe so. Is there any way I could send you a picture or video?
@@kylejulle8561 inbox me vintageavrepair (at) Gmail (dot) com
@@JordanPier Perfect! I will send an email tomorrow morning.
Is there an anti-skate adjustment on these? I've got a VM 1226 that is working well except for the last song or two it will skip back and repeat the same groove. It does this on good records that newer changers play without issue. The only way to get it to not skip is to set it to track at ~8g which seems like way too much. The original cartridge was destroyed on mine before I got it so I couldn't measure the original tracking force. I want to set up the new cartridge to track at 4-5g without skipping.
End of play trip on the cycling cam is sticky. Needs to be pulled apart, cleaned and lubricated
Hi great video , Can i ship you the almost exact player for the full service?
Sure. Inbox me vintageavrepair at gmail dot com
Just so I’ll know what would be worst case scenario (price) for full service
@@jesserodriguez639 email me and lets talk. I dont advertise in the comments since costs are forever changing
T-4
I've gone through these two videos and the advanced service and things work fairly well except one thing. The tone arm sets down a little late on both 12 inch and 7 inch records (don't have a 10 inch to test) so every record starts a few seconds after it should. Any suggestions on what I should adjust? Thank you.
There's an adjustment for that. You'll find it at the back of the Tonearm where the pivot is when you lift it all the way up
Hey Jordan! Thank you so much for these videos, I followed both step by step with my Motorola Stereophonic Custom 20, but when I put everything back together the sound seems to be coming from the tonearm rather than the speakers. This wasn't the case before tear down, so I'm guessing I put something back together wrong? Do you have any ideas? I would really really appreciate it.
Make sure none of the connectors have come off the back of the cartridge.
Make sure both RCA cables are seated underneath the turntable
@@JordanPier ok I’ll check! I do think I’ll go through your advanced service tutorial too just to be safe. Thank you!
@@JordanPier That seemed to work! Thank you! I still can't figure out why the reject won't drop a record, but I'm hoping if I use your advanced service it'll help. Thanks again.
@@KatCraigMusic if the arm moves during a cycle but doesn't drop a record, check that the button at the bottom of the spindle underneath the record player moves in and out. There a ball bearing in there too that falls out often during service. If no ball bearing the spindle won't trigger. You can watch the finger on the spindle move like it would push a record off the ledge during a cycle if it's working correctly.
Sometimes spindles wear out and need replacement. If that's the case it's complicated but can be done. Spindles are available from the voice of musics website.
@@JordanPier Thanks Jordan, I went through your whole advanced tutorial and the ball bearing is still in tact, and I tried to remove the spindle to clean it, I even put heat on it, but I cannot get it to budge. Do you have a video tutorial on that? maybe I'm missing something. Also, is it possible to tighten the nut on the tonearm too tight? Because it doesn't move as freely once I put it back together. Does the spring go over the nut or the nut over the spring? Thank you so much for answering my questions, I wish I could send my turntable to you and pay you to fix it! lol.
Jordan, I have a VM 1269 that when I turn the switch to reject, after the 12" record drops onto the platter the tone arm lifts, moves away from the platter slightly and then my turntable starts to slow down dramatically. Then after I get the platter back up to speed the tone arm just drops back into the saddle. When I place the record on the platter manually, lift the pressure arm to the right but not all the way over, turn the switch to reject, the tone arm will then move over the record but drops the tone arm in the same 7" record position regardless of the size of record I put on the turntable. How does the record changer know what size record is on it and what do you think could be causing these issues. I serviced the unit with all new grease and oil where instructed. Thanks for all the info! BTW, I also have a B1265 that I picked up if you know anyone interested in it for parts. I know they're worth more in parts than the unit is as a whole.
I'm having similar issues after servicing my VM1256, did you ever get this sorted out?
@@davejuliano5348 No, but I ended up ordering a new drive wheel and various other parts to get it going but haven't installed the new drive wheel yet because my daughter wanted to listen to records immediately. She didn't care about the automatic part and after softening the original wheel it's been playing just fine after getting up to speed - just doesn't do auto record drop well. I suspect that it's the drive wheel slipping and am hoping that when I eventually change it out that it fixes this issue. Just need to wait for my daughter to leave for college to steal the console for a day.
have you worked on a Magnavox changer ? If so which would you say was harder to fix?
Larry Shaver depends on the history of it. Either can be hard. For the most part the Magnavox changers usually require less attention unless they've been abused
i wish i could talk to you on the phone, i have a few questions i rather no-one else could see
I did the entire service on mine but its clicking as it spins. Is that the motor? Whats the explanation for that??
Does yours have the sensor button at the edge of the platter? If so the button and spring metal underneath may be scraping against the pin that strikes it.
@@JordanPier Let me get back to you on that. 🤔
@@JordanPier After analysis it only makes that noise when motor is on. Smooth and quiet spinning on its own without motor running. I’m guessing the motor is about to go out because it doesn’t always engage and its making the wahwah noise
@@christineclark2830 have you changed your idler wheel yet? If not, it's probably hardened and needs rebuilding
@@JordanPier I have not. It seems to spin fine though, do you have a video on that?