In the anime I got the impression that he could possibly take either 17 on 18 on in a fair bout if they were by themselves but was simply overwhelmed by their teamwork, which got him killed in the end. The manga on the other hand was made it more than clear that either one of them could demolish Gohan singlehandedly if they got serious.
@@dark_nightwing_xl2797there’s really nothing to suggest that. The androids were known to toy with their prey and they never looked overly serious in The History of Trunks outside of saying he’s “dangerous today.” In the manga it’s obvious since they told him they weren’t even using half their power the last time they fought. Unfortunately Future Gohan didn’t get the plot armor or ass pulls that Present Gohan has been afforded.
@@dark_nightwing_xl2797 Goten and trunks were fighting cell jr's in dbs . Not 1 vs 1 but taken them all at once Atleast that version of kid Goten and trunks will beat 18 from the cell saga and buu saga easilly. Daizenshuu u also mentions Goten to not be far from Gohan power Gohan that is stronger than 18 Also on their fight in the tournament Goten told Trunks to not go 100% on 18. And 18 was shocked scared with trunks ki blast
One of my top characters in all of DB…he had some of the best quotes out there… “You know you can’t win. You can’t destroy what I really am! Even if you destroy this body someone even stronger would surface and take my place! Not one death will go unaccounted for, not one!” “There is no end for me, NO END.” They were very un Dragonball like quotes from a character.
The History of Trunks (on vhs 😅) was what got me into DB in the first place. I always used to wonder who that weird alien guy was who Trunks sliced during the end credits... lol
He is the true savior of Dragon Ball, without him there would be no trunks or bulma or anyone if he would have died with others the Androids would have killed the remaining people including Bulma and trunks from the future
The biggest reason I love that version is because it shows how even that limitless potential we know Gohan to have, can be greatly hindered by the loss of his friends, family, and any really significant training partners (That aren't constantly trying to murder him). The fact that he goes out knowing the odds are crazy stacked against him, yet is still outwardly hopeful, and optimistic is one of the best heroic deaths. My favorite version of that scene will always be the Legacy of Goku games version.
@@jrose4731 Tell me about it. I was in a group home for young men when I got the Legacy of Goku, Metroid Fusion and an SP. That game got me through so much, the graphics are beautiful, and it was incredible for its time. I a love a remaster that didn't screw it up.
Gohan gets crazy powerful when he is trying to SAVE people. In the future he's lost too much, it's broken him. And that is expressed in the loss of his arm as well. Tragic.
I don't feel that the Anime did it better although it was a great moment. I think that the manga-accurate portrayal of Tunks already being a SS adds to the horror & bleakness of that timeline, that Gohan while still heroic and impactful was ultimately just another casualty of the Android's reign of terror. He didn't die and give Trunks a power boost, Gohan died because he simply wasn't strong enough and the Androids got sick of toying with him. I think the manga version makes you feel how hopeless Trunks was. His mentor and older brother figure got killed and all he could do was weep, knowing in his heart he was nowhere near ready to be the hero that Earth needed.
@@tommy2170 I find that the anime version did it better while also feeling MORE hopeless by giving the characters hope in the form of Gohan’s determination and Trunk’s confidence after the death of Gohan just to really cement the fact that they stood no chance, the manga just seems to have a lack of thought or care for Trunk’s storyline.
@@tommy2170 the anime also showed how hopeless trunks was when we trunks in super saiyan trying to fight the androids but came up short and ended up in the hospital and the anime gave future gohan more justice to his character than the manga did
To me I think comes down to that Gohan isn't a fighting genius like Goku, Piccolo, and Vegeta. The reason main Gohan was so strong is he had 2 of the 3 training him his whole life and thus was able to tap into his hidden power. But future Gohan lost both his masters early in life and had to figure it out on his own. I think we see this through Trunks who also isn't a genius level fighter and also hit a power wall against the Androids. It wasn't until he traveled back and trained with his dad that he was able to go through it. I think if future Gohan traveled back and trained with Goku he would've unlocked his hidden potential as well.
You're definitely correct in that regard. Not having guidance from any of those more experienced figures would have been a massive hit to Gohan's training results. He doesn't seem to flourish without others like Goku and Piccolo pushing him to do so...
That fact future gohan got ssj by himself is pretty impressive and im the anime he was strong andoid saga standards so I would say he did pretty good with the cards he was dealt
Future Gohan also had survivor's guilt, when all the Z fighters got wiped out by C17 and 18, he was the only one alive. So instead of pure anger/rage that could turn him into ssj2 or further heights, he was mainly pissed at himself. He dwelled on wearing his father's gi but not being anywhere as powerful as Goku; Also not visiting Chichi for many years because of guilt, he couldn't save the people on Earth from dying to the Androids. Trunks was his only hope because Future Gohan sees young Trunks to have potential, unfortunately Future Gohan viewed himself to have peaked since he didn't know they could go beyond ssj. If Future Gohan went back in time, he certainly would have gone close to ssj2 by training with goku in the time chamber, but survivor's guilt by seeing everyone alive in the present timeline may have been too overwhelming.
If Gohan fought the Androids several times, I thought he would have enough Zenkai boosts to eventually become stronger than them… but whatever Toriyama 🤷
@@ThatGuyThaiWhich is crazy it took Vegeta one beating and 1 year of training to ascend. Gohan got beaten for years by the androids and never figured he needed more power. Even with a SSJ future Trunks they would have lost because Trunks was too weak.
@@andrebryant5081 one year of training with ANOTHER super saiyan is busted. Zenkai for both. Future Gohan didn't get a chance to train with Trunks for a year.
Not a plothole they literally ran out of senzus therfore no more zenkais they had to heal the old fashioned way which takes time also in the manga Gohan likely hasn’t fought them more than like 2-3 times.
7:10 That's not what Gohan is thinking here. He's not so foolish as to throw himself at the androids knowing he can't win, especially considering how long he's been hiding from them to get to this point. He's merely making sure that if the worst happens, Trunks won't die as well. It does NOT mean he think he will lose, just that it's a risk.
I wish bulma could have built gohan a place to train like vegeta but I understand she probably didn’t have the resources. And I just wish someone could have helped from the afterlife with some kind of advice to gohan
@@reptilian_geneticist It is not a plot hole, Akira is simply not a very good writer. I think Geekdom called him a discovery writer as he writes as he goes.
I like how in the anime he's shown to be on par with at least 1 of the androids at any given time but just can't handle their tag team, especially after losing his arm. Even if they were just toying with him, you also see him fighting without transforming sometimes too as both sides warm up against each other. It makes for an interesting dynamic and feels like the androids only take him out cause he's close to the point where he could potentially kill 1 of them if he had a clear 1 on 1 matchup. Showing that he was growing throughout, even though he had to struggle on his own to get stronger. I really think the anime handled the entire future Trunks saga better with the one special, and gave more reason for Gohan's sacrifice, with him seeing his limits being reached, especially with just 1 arm left, and needing to provide that extra push for Trunks, as well as showing Trunks what would happen to him if he weren't careful, because Trunks thought 2 super saiyans together would be unstoppable and he needed to learn that super saiyans can be killed. A favorite story of mine, definitely top tier, and I think Gohan just missing out on that training with his friends and family is enough of a reason for him to be weaker. Though future Bulma definitely should've made him and Trunks a gravity chamber
@@86twin Maybe it felt too android for them to be comfortable with. Heck, considering how powerful Gero's androids were made off of humans, imagine how powerful a saiyan android would be
I feel dragon ball kakarot really make us as the players feel the struggle that gohan faced whilst facing the androids, that fight was especially difficult and once he was out of power you felt so helpless and knew what was coming even if you technically knew because you were a fan of the franchise
13:15 The version of tween/teen Gohan when he turns super saiyan...but _before_ Goku cuts his hair is really cool. It should be in more video games as an alternate skin/outfit.
A bigger question is why didn't Future Master Roshi use the mafuba ( evil containment wave ) to seal away the androids ? And why didn't he teach it to future Gohan and trunks ?
@@andrebryant5081 Why didn't Popo mentioned the hyperbolic chamber to everyone so all the Z fighters could train long enough to completely demolish the androids and cell?
I always feel like the idea of Future Gohan was an interesting concept to explore more. To this day and even though he only had so much screen time, he’s still loved. I would like a what if series someday.
2:55 - I just so happened to be thinking about the power-scaling around these characters earlier, and I'd like to point out that Trunks was considerably impressed with Goku when they met, and even said that he was _"Even more impressive than the stories made him out to be",_ and this was likely one of the reasons why meeting Goku reassured Trunks and gave him even more hope that they could win. Basically, it wouldn't make sense for Trunks to be impressed by someone who wasn't even as strong as himself or Gohan, which goes further to suggest that Goku was Stronger than Future Gohan before he died... 5:25 - I would say that Trunks' ability to basically one-shot King Cold, who is suggested to be superior to Frieza, who himself is stronger than he was on Namek, probably means that both he and Goku are at a level significantly above what Goku was on Namek. Which is plausible, given his training on Yardrat. 18:00 - And, in my opinion, he had to cut some corners to do this. Which is why Gohan actually never recieves any support from the dead and all the others who could have helped him like they would have if those things weren't omitted from the story. I've thought a lot about this topic - Just went through a massive discussion on it myself recently - And while I agree with most of what you said, I've still always believed that the events of this timeline, and storyline in general are a bit contrived in many ways. And one of the biggest things I point to is how the narrative of future timeline doesn't really address certain things that would have led to the story's resolution if not for Toriyama going out of his way to tell a more hopeless story. There's even the factor of Goku conveniently dying of a random virus out of nowhere when the world needed him the most (like some Avatar sht) - something completely unlike anything else we've ever seen in the story. I never believed the virus came from Yardrat, and I have solid arguments as to why - but in hindsight, it would have been a far better plot-point if it had. It would have explained some stuff, and tied Goku's death to the casualty of the story, rather than just being a blatant invention of the plot to remove him from the events. It's still one of the greatest storylines in Dragonball, but it has a lot of problems. On another note, I tend to prefer the anime's depiction in a lot of ways, over the Mangas, I feel it does this saga better justice...
I Always wondered Why none of the z fighters tried to connect with or pass a training tip to Gohan or Trunks through king Kai or something like that. Either to tell them about the chamber or how to surpass or even become a SS.
Also I feel like his mental state held him back alot too he was alone for years fighting to survive training the mind is just as important as the body future gohan wouldnt have had the same level of battle strategy as present adult gohan for that reason
The story does an extremely good job of legit showing us why he was weaker. Firstly gohan isn't as strong as goku, not even close by the start of the android arc, secondly this would still be around the time where we could still calculate power levels, so with super saiyan 50x.. add that on to a gohan who hasn't gotten proper training (like he did in the cell arc btw) and bam you have a gohan with a very very weak first stage of super saiyan, and keep in mind the androids are above base super saiyan.
@@andrebryant5081 proper training in the android arc. The z fighters including piccolo died in the initial android onslaught, from that point on gohan only had trunks (who is significantly weaker) than him to train with, unlike gohan had when he was in the past, with the hyperbolic timechamber and goku training him.
@@forgottenherossb4129 A decade of fighting teaching himself how to turn SSJ with no mystic training like his father I would say Gohan self train himself very well. So well he taught Trunks how to turn SSJ.
@@andrebryant5081 yes but despite all that still lost to the androids, Goku trained as a kid and for decades as well, became super saiyan and still despite all of that stood no chance against android 17 or 18, also the androids were weaker in the future timeline compared to the past, so it really goes to show how weak gohan was.
If future gohan had access to the same things he had in Z like the time chamber, or someone else at all he would have cleared the androids no doubt, but since there wasn’t any of that he failed to do so
The idea of Future Trunks going around whipping his head around slapping people with his hair would be absolutely hilarious...especially ponytail ssj Trunks lmao....
I had a similar thought about future Gohan because in the original timeline where Goku dies from a heart virus no one knows that the Androids are coming, and nobody is preparing for them at that time, Gohan would focus on school as he promised his mom, and would have become much weaker during those three years of not training, plus he would be very unmotivated after Goku's death of the heart virus because he is gone forever, and Vegeta would be a weaker Super Saiyan because he had no extra motivation for training unlike the other timeline where they found out they were going to be killed by some Androids. When everyone dies Gohan has to train himself which he doesn't know how to do very well on his own, since Piccolo didn't train him well enough like Goku would have done in the other timeline, that's why Gohan has a much rougher way of training without knowing about Korin Tower or Kami's Lookout, he trains and barely survives, and now you'd think he could get a zenkai boosts like Vegeta but he can't because he didn't have enough Senzu Beans to take risks so many times, and whenever he barely survived a fight he'd spend a long time waiting for it to heal, or force training, neither of which is a good idea for getting stronger fast. It is obvious that his progress was very slow, and the fact that he had to hide, and he had no one then to take care of him and give him food while he was recovering from such hard battles, and he did not have the mindset of a Saiyan to think about the greater powers he could attain, because him and Trunks thought that there was nothing better than a Super Saiyan or like Trunks just pumping more power without thinking about other things that are just as important in the fight. And Gohan must have had a subconscious thought in the back of his head that maybe they would let him survive the fight like in the past in order to get stronger after recovery but he totally lost hope when they said they were going to kill him because they got bored of him.
I like the video, but even a low to intermediate familiarity with dbz would inform us that only one of those 2 Gohans was trained by a ssj Goku in a hyperbolic time chamber and then fought cell. There is no real mystery around this power difference.
I'll always wonder why Mr. Popo didn't come find them and tell them about the time chamber. Gohan could've also gone to the lookout, assuming he's alive, but if Gohan has senzu beans and Korin is alive, Popo should be too This would've let him and Trunks get strong the way Goku and Gohan did. Otherwise I think Gohan didn't have anyone much to train with, Trunks was little for most of his life. I mean 4 years after Goku first went SSJ, his power hadn't really gone up a whole lot for that many years of training. One year in the time chamber and he's like 10x stronger. So I do think not accessing the chamber is why he didn't get all that powerful. Being able to spar in there with Trunks would've really helped. Vegeta and Trunks didn't spar and as a result couldn't hit SSJ grade 4.
That's what I've been wondering lately (maybe did long ago and forgot, too)... why didn't Gohan visit the lookout and get informed about the room, seeing he was already going to Korin's tower.
What was so weird was how gohan did train and yet his amazing latent potential people brag about never was showcased in this timeline. I will say this is my second favorite version of Gohan behind teen ssj2 Gohan.
Is it really all that weird when you go back and look at everything it took for the main timeline Gohan to become so powerful? The training main Gohan received was far greater than anything his future self could have ever done on his own.
@@FinfectionStill all this potential Gohan has an years of fighting he should have been ultra SSJ just because Vegeta and future Trunks figured it out in 1 year.
Because all his potential is bs plot armor and nothing more. Just another way for Whoriyamma to give a Ass-Pull-Ku family member power for no reason. This Gohan was actually Gohan and not Ass-Pull-Han. A well written character. Not an Ass-Pull-Artist. Best version IMO.
@@andrebryant5081 An inexperienced Future Gohan training by himself in a post-apocalyptical world is not the same as Vegeta and Trunks training together in the room of spirit and time together for a year.
That version had no guidance, and had to figure it out all on his own pretty much. Gohan at his strongest always needs someone to give him an extra push, Future Gohan didn’t have anyone. Respect to him though, he managed to hold off the androids long enough for Bulma to make her machine and trained Trunks. I’d take him over lazy asspull Super Hero Gohan any day.
I dont know why Why I always felt future Gohan had much more potential than the present timeline one, they both are the same character still it always gave me a feeling that future Gohan would have kicked alot more ass if he was alive
@@LSMMIKE 15:21 - The cause of the problem and the brutally-difficult to figure out 'Solution' to it is the SAME based on 'Terminator' since thats what this android-arc is based on: Meaning that This 'Casuality' of the Time-Loop's could have been going-on for two, OR 1-Million Loops in all its hopeless-aberrance Until it was snuffed-out or at least 'HALTED' by those living in the main-timeline of the story. It is a shared movie-dbz-problem that is so-manifold that it highlights the dangers of both time travel & Either the Judgement of God himself or something to do with fate and the ones running things in the background of reality that we not only DONT get to see much of the original-timelines.. But that ALL of its 'Dangers' they suffered can be seen, ALL in-one event: The Abandoned Time-Machine that original-timeline Cell used to get to the main timeline. Because THAT timelines Trunks literally intended to go to the Main-Timeline way, Earlier than the Trunks who made it there did. The only one to ALMOST make it to this Timeline. Because that creepy incident on its own is the story asking the fans 'How-many times did Perfect-Cell 'Win' in every previous time-loop in the end before all of this finally caught-up to the 'Main'-Timeline? How many Trunks, And Goku's and planet-earth's were wiped-out before this one, Trunks from his timeline managed to clue the Main-timeline Dbz cast into the fact that something was worse with their world than just frieza, And Saiyans and all that? Its the same, Gruesome-question that persists in Terminator as well because of those who Time Travelled that ALSO gives clues in there & In the backstory that this could have happened just 5, Or 5, Billion-Times of the same, Terrifying thing happening over, & Over, & Over. Where we already know by the 'First' movie that this has happened TWICE. & That for it to have happened twice, There was almost certaintly a third-time before that. How does one ever 'Stop' something so malignant and like a 'Rot' that keeps repeating in 'Time' itself.
Really great video. I like how you brought up how there were established limits in Z. That is one thing I do hate about Super: the idea that “training” can somehow make you infinitely stronger.
To be fair, that disease started in the Buu saga when Goku gained Super Saiyan 3 without some special trigger or requirement, or Vegeta getting 2 before going Majin. All from long training. Super just carried that disease 5 fold.
@@fredv6237 In defense of Z, Goku gained Super Saiyan 3 not simply by training. He was in a Spirit body. Gotenks used the magic of fusion to obtain it. Vegeta got SSJ2 by using the magic of Majin. There is nothing confirming that he was SSJ2 without it. So it's not like they went crazy. Besides, going from the Cell saga to the Buu saga was 7 years worth of straight training. Vegeta, who was already SSJ Grade 3 taking 7 years to go SSJ2 is understandable. But these guys were going SSJG and then SSB and then SSB Kaioken and then Perfected Blue in a matter of months. Then Goku went UI Sign and then MASTERED Ultra Instinct in less than a half and hour. And then Caulifla went SSJ by a back tingle! Then went SSJ2 literally within 5 minutes of not even knowing what SSJ or SSJ2 was! Kale goes LSSJ because she is jealous? Then she masters the form that not even Broly could do after 30 some odd years? Nah, there's no comparison here 😂
Gohan when he was just an untrained child with a power level of 1 got a boost to 981 after just basic training with Piccolo for a year, Future Gohan would have a decade if he got just a single boost per year he would be at minimum 10,000x stronger and that's not even including Super Saiyan
@@tastedivinefury2198 we also can't forget that some attack's temporarily boost Ki the usual Masenko gives 2x boost but the Raging Masenko used by Future Gohan is actually an upgraded version so it would be more than 2x on it's own plus 2x more for Rage boost and this is excluding Kamehameha which he most likely learned from Roshi (he's actually shown using it in the anime but I was going by the Manga) which would be another 2.2x boost There's also nothing saying that Gohan couldn't have learned the Makankkousappo/Special Beam Cannon which is 3x stronger or more, i mean sure he'd be way weaker than present Gohan and probably couldn't even beat Super Saiyan 2 Gohan but the Future Androids were weaker than their present counterparts so he should have at least been able to beat them, it simply defys logic outside of plot/narrative.
My head canon has always been that gohan had a huge mental block because in the story it is conveyed that he’s training everyday and is almost obsessed with it but you have to realize that even if he wins against the androids there’s nothing left for him in the world for him to live for. The reason he fights and the reason why he’s so tragic is because of how selfless in nature he is. So the way I see the final scene where he goes to fight off the androids I see it as him wanting to die and taking that chance
Trunks' information leading to more training and less learning Less food ressources, when Gohan is older No training partners that are actually strong enough to train Gohan Etc.
Well one he never trained with his dad and piccolo they had no prior warning, no one to train with once they all died, and if he ever did try to train hard they probably would of killed him sooner. He was just at a massive disadvantage
@@bobjohnson1633 with who? Like Rey in the Last Jedi just medidate and hit the sky? You need someone to guide especially being so young as he is. Didn't you see who helped Gohan reach his potential? It was Goku.
Gohan literally didnt have someone on his level or higher to train with. Didnt have senzu beans so couldn't risk asnmany zenkais, and didn't knownabout the time chamber
Honestly, knowing how the cell saga ends and what comes later, I do think Toriyama would have made a better story if the survivor who trained trunks was some one else. Maybe Tien using Kai-oh-Ken so we got some pay off on his King Kai training, even if it still was never used in the main time line? There's a couple of interesting options, but the key is that it'd be some one who'd be stronger then a little kid, even a sayian one, like future trunks was when the androids attacked, but also some one who ultimately had no chance against the main time line androids even with the 3 years advanced notice for preparing, so it doesn't feel weird that this unseen alternate time line version of them wouldn't have been strong enough to be their androids, but would have thought Trunks, with his sayian blood, might, if he could just stay alive long enough. It is what it is though, and what it is is just an awkward piece of writing, awkward enough to warrant entire 20 minute videos trying to justify it. Which to be clear, I'm all here for, I know what dragon ball is and isn't, and I love it even with both actual plot holes and not completely im-plausible but feel like a plot hole stuff like this.
The bonus chapter in DBS shows future Gohan escaping from the androids, but it does not show a super saiyan Vegeta, meaning maybe for a while Gohan would have believed it was a Goku specific transformation. He may not have even trained towards that and it just happened years later for him.
Something that should also be considered is that maybe in Trunks' timeline, the Saiya-Jin + Earthling miscegination may have not produced a stronger than both offspring like in our timeline, so maybe Gohan simply wasn't that gifted.
But why would that sort of thing be different between the timelines? The laws of reality were exactly the same, the only difference was the way certain events transpired. A fundamental thing like genetics probably wasn’t changed.
It doesn't make sense for much of anything to be different up until the point of Goku died. Trunks and Gohan were already alive before the timeline split, also.
I actually have some criticisms. I would argue that Gohan is not capable of taking advantage of the huge bursts in power he achieved in the cell saga because he has become a hardened warrior and as a result is incapable of experiencing the emotional shocks that cause saiyan's to mutate. Also in the case of dragon ball super gohan did in fact train in the time chamber via the manga and despite that he was incapable of using his full potential until prior to the tournament of power when piccolo helped him regain his instincts as a warrior which suggests that that is actually what gohan needs to use his full potential not necessarily training alone but as is the case with future gohan he cannot shut himself off to his emotions completely because what the old kai specifically did to him is only useful if he can implement his emotions as we saw first hand when gohan got angry during the ritual and tapped into his power followed by being told by the old kai to use it like super saiyan implying he's implementing emotion since ssj is fueled by rage. also one overlooked aspect of modern gohan's power is that the old kai suggests that his ability to unlock potential actually takes the fighter beyond the normal limits of their capabilities and if "firing it up like super saiyan" aka rage really is the key to gohan unlocking that power beyond his potential in combination with his instincts as a warrior the approach super took does actually make sense considering they made sure gohan had his instincts reawakened prior to experiencing a shock to his emotions.
Our Gohan was trained in the time chamber by beyond SSJ Goku and also achieved that power. That same power which was far more powerful than Vegeta and trunks in V2 and V3 SSJ. Future Gohan had no trainers or partners and was stuck with base SSJ.
Excellent breakdown. Unfortunately, going back to look at previous arcs causes me to view DBS in disdain. Hopefully they learn from their mistakes when it returns.
I think the biggest reason why Future Gohan is weaker than the Gohan we know has to come down to his mentality and not his physical strength. Future Gohan was trying to imitate his father and be like him in power and confidence rather than being his own person. Had he had a that mentality going in, then I would think Future Gohan would have tapped into his potential soon rather than much later. Goku knew of Gohan's potential and his training wasn't just to make him a better fighter. It was also to build Gohan's confidence and believing he is an even better fighter than Goku.
Mike i like these videos where you just pull up the graphics, similar effect as editing but much less tedious than a long detailed sequence of edits I want you to stick around so keep having fun with these videos!
I really like your explanation! However, the thing that always kind of confused me was that I feel like Gohan would have been able to access super Saiyan 2 just for being so mad that piccolo his father everybody including krillin died against the Androids, and that would have made him so angry that he would have accessed his hidden potential. At the end of the day I understand that it's a narrative thing. I'm glad you picked this topic because it's something that's been bothering me for a really long time, especially because they say that the Androids are weaker than the ones in the canon timeline. The best I can assume is that Goku's training and how to become a super Saiyan and how to tap into the anger is the only explanation, but it pisses me off still
Future Gohan had no idea there was even anything beyond super saiyan, not only that but he is merely a grade 1 super saiyan Cell saga Gohan had to be a full power grade 4 super saiyan to achieve super saiyan 2, it isn’t just some rage thing like beast Gohan you have to actually meet certain requirements to achieve it.
I think the reason he died is because the writers forgot a lot of little details and simply didn't care. Skipping over the fact that the z-fighters all fought individually and Piccolo didn't rally them after Vegeta stupidly fought first and died (which is a huge plot hole as he would have done it)... Some of the major details they forgot is that Gohan would have known how to bring the z-fighters back if needed; he could have contacted Bulma and spoke about finding New Namek. We also know damn well Goku and/or Piccolo would have contacted Gohan via King Kai in some capacity. Kami would have said something to Popo or Korin before his death, Popo would have spoken to Gohan, something would have happened there. There are a plethora of issues with Future Gohan's timeline that just don't make a bit of sense.
For real, the future timeline is definitely an example of lazy writing. I can't see Goku and Piccolo not using a one day pass from baba, to come back and help Gohan train in the room of spirit and time, and yes the fact that Kami told popo about the dragon balls on namek when he died in the Saiyan saga there's no reason to think he wouldn't have done something similar here. At very least the fact that Gohan gave trunks the last sensu bean, that means he was in touch with Korin over the years so I can't see Korin not telling Gohan, to go to Mr Popo and gain access to the room of spirit and time.
Cell saga Gohan had a full year of gravity, ki control, and martial arts training with Goku. Plus the three years training with Piccolo and Goku before the androids showed up. In the future timeline, they were never warned about the androids and so probably didn't train with surviving them in mind. Which means Goku likely wouldn't have been so keen on sneaking Gohan away to train with him.
I think one point that is often overlooked is setup. As bullshit as Gohans powerups may be, aside from the very first one against Raditz, there is always a setup before he snaps and gets a power boost. He trains with Piccolo before the Saiyans, then sees him and most of the others die before he snaps at Nappa. He trains a bit on Namek and gets his power unlocked, then nearly killed by Recoome before he snaps at Frieza. Then he trains for 3 years for the Androids, then for another one with Goku in the RoSaT, where he becomes a SSJ and masters it, and finally Android 16 dies to make him snap against Cell. And after that Goku had to motivate him until he really gave it 100%. In the Buu Saga he trains with the Z sword, then gets a magical power up by a literal god that lets him fight at 100% power and efficency without transforming. Heck even in Super he trains witj Piccolo to regain his power, then snaps after seeing Pan and later Piccolo being hurt in Super Hero. I'm not saying it's good writting or whatever, but Gohan is a character that has amazing potential, but he needs others to get hurt for him to snap, and before that people who guide/train him so that when he snaps, his base power is high enough for him to tap into entirely new realms of power. Future Gohan was roughly Namek level when Goku died. And Goku was the most important person/guidance in his life, despite overused DBZA memes. Then 3 years later, Piccolo and the rest of the Z fighters die to the sudden appearance of the Androids and he is left to pick up the pieces, alone, under constant thread. He also doesn't have the experience or the grindset of Goku, Vegeta or Piccolo. After they lost to the Androids, all of them came up with ways to get stronger relatively quickly. Future Gohan probably thinks most about how to make it to the next day alive, or how to train Trunks. Even in his "badass version", he isn't really a fighter, rather a survivalist, probably with survival guilt. TL:DR Future Gohan is missing multiple vital guiding figures, stepping stones and setups that main timeline Gohan went through. He is basically the peak post Namek Gohan could have reached on his own without any outside help/guidance/pushes.
Good points that make sense. Another thing to remember is that Gohan by nature is not like his father Kakarrot or Vegeta. If he was he would have asked Buruma to make him a x1000 gravity machine and when he is done he can attack the androids. I guess he did got stronger until he faced them it's just wasn't enough to throw them into the junk yard.
They didn't show it. Gohan said he was going to kill both, who fight together. 17 then told him that he was not using half. Logically, Gohan thought he could beat both androids at 50%, which is equal to 1 at 100%.
Nice video. I honestly think it's because Gohan didn't have Goku or anyone else to train him compared to in the main timeline where Goku trained with him in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. But yeah, it is also to make Future Trunks's timeline really dark. That scene where Gohan died and Trunks transformed to SSJ really got me right in the feels.
It definitely is a little hard to wrap the brain around sometimes, but I always rationalized it as the lack of a proper teacher and an emotional block, and I guess the arm. Because I feel like Dragonball characters seemed to jump ahead by being able to see other people do great things first. Like Goku showing the kids SSJ3
There's one big flaw in the debate that I don't know if anyone has ever brought up why And how would future trunks know what the android's full power was
@@Someguyzayd but trunks could just preserve the body in a preservation chamber take him to the past they use the dragon balls then they train gohan and he gets stronger
The Future Trunks Timeline can be confusing as it stands now. You've got two versions of Trunks and Mai running around (Bulma is alive again) but all the other Z warriors are still dead. IMO I'd like to see one set of the Trunks and Mai return to the main timeline and remain there. I'd also like to see the Other Trunks seek out either the Namekians or Granolah's 2 set Dragon Balls and wish back all that were lost over the years. Another option would be to get a 24 hour pass from otherworld for Piccolo and then find their own Dragon Balls (although the other 2 sets are most likely stronger) Future Trunk's timeline as always been a soft spot for me and I'd love to see it fully restored at some point.
Can you PLEASE please please, do a video on how Strong Goku actually was in Namek? I ask this because, remember, Goku was heavily damaged, AND literally exhausted after using the Spirit Bomb. He probably had a powerlevel of literal zero by that point. So when he went Super Sayian, he still was significantly weaker than he would have been fresh and fully healed and rested
@@LSMMIKE oh wow, THANK YOU SO MUCH!! I am so excited I can't wait!? You're the best!! I watch all your videos, you do such a great job, you are by far my favorite DragonBall-Tuber! Interesting topic to think about to, would be... If Dende survived, and he healed Goku right after Frieza came back from the Spirit Bomb, could a fully healed Zenkai boosted Goku defeat a injured tired Frieza, without even needing to go Super Sayian? I always thought about that... Like I guess it depends on just how damaged Frieza got, and how much power lost. And how strong Goku would be after getting healed at that point. He would get a Zenkai. So my guess is... If Goku arrived to fight Frieza with a fresh power of 3 million. If Dende healed him right after the Spirit Bomb, his base power would probably be around 6 million, maybe 6 million. So a Kaioken ×20 would put him at about 120 million. Equal to Frieza full power
@@enoughaccuracyyt8609 hm, it makes me wonder, what if Vegeta did survive, and Dende could heal both Goku and Vegeta, just how many times would they each need to be healed before Frieza is to exhausted to keep up with them, and their constant Zenkais
Only goku knew of the time chamber and at the time piccolo wouldn’t have known either since he didn’t fuse with kami in trunks timeline so only goku knew of the time chamber and the secret died with him
@@andrebryant5081 and in all the occurrences where earth was in danger even the Saiyan arc mr Popo not even once tried to tell them use the time chamber to prepare themselves so either way the z fighters were completely in the dark
I have a theory about saiyans and thinking about it, it would also make sense for this situation. So as we know, goku and the other saiyans are born with tails, and the whole monkey/ape charactistic thing going on. Goku was always a master at learning new abilities really fast just by watching, and I believe that was playing into the "Monkey see monkey do" saying. But I also believe Zenkais and when they break their limits, its also related to this, like they sense the power, and mimic it as best as they can. Thats why Trunks and goten was so fast at learning SSJ and also catching up in power to the others too. They are master at mimicing, both moves and power. But with the androids, since they cant sense their power, the rate they gained power, was very slow compared to other villians. Gohans rage boosts always mimiced the power that was infront of him and went back down, otherwise he would have either killed the enemy or it would have been pointless. which it has never been.
This concept makes realistic sense Imagine a real life example say if there was an alternate universe where Mike Tyson for example didn't meet Cus D'Amato and he just continued on the path he was on. it wouldn't even matter if he trained as hard as he could and had desire to even be a boxer he would be no where near as skilled and talented as he was in our timeline. He could possibly still be somewhat good due to his natural ability but no one can ever reach the true peak of their potential alone mental drive and desire play a part but without guidance and proper knowledge you would be very lucky to achieve even 50 percent of what you are truly capable of.
I would love if you would to do a what-if the senzu bean plant in the future timelines never went extinct And yes I mean both Cell timelines and future trunks timeline
I think the thing that also factors into it is the lack of quality training available to Gohan. Piccolo died, thus no Kami or training partners. The only one to achieve Super Sayian passed away and Gohan didn't really have a comparable training partner to bring out the best of his abilities. It's worth mentioning in the past time line that all the characters were *much* stronger then they were caught blind sided by 17 and 18, so Gohan didn't get to benefit from his father's training either. So he had to train himself up, from the age of *9* with no mentors available or prior experience, against foes much stronger then a Super Sayian? Sure there was the time chamber but alone I get the impression it was as much about the training partner as it was the gravity and I get the impression Trunks and he, while close, weren't remotely on the same level. I attribute Gohan's survival despite all those setbacks to be attributed to just how resilient he is as a character. He just kept getting up over and over again, and just when he finally felt he was much stronger then both of them? "Bro are you serious? We were just screwing around with you with half of our powers the entire time." Sadly, Gohan and Trunks just never had the quality of time to grow in that environment, just survive and hope they never get serious about killing them. Meanwhile, Gohan achieving his potential had him train pretty solidly for 3 years under both Goku and Piccolo, who are both pretty much are the best mentors available when it comes to training. Then got an additional year of bonding time where he was able to achieve the best level of training for a solid year under his father. I would be willing to wager that that time spent efficiently training is worth more then the 20 or so years future Gohan would ultimately get over him of bottom of the barrel training, in an environment where being too loud can get him killed. I mean, Goku was *much* stronger then Trunks as a Super Sayian as he was able to fend off his sword attacks with just his finger shows how much quality of training meant; Goku had spent his entire life growing and developing as a martial artist, no one in the future could ever hope to achieve that without the experiences he had. I mean, Trunks went back in time and trained with his father for a year, which while it wasn't as good as Goku was still able to enable him to overcome some serious milestones in his own development.
Another thing about Gohan in Trunks' timeline is that he had nobody to train with. It's a consistent thing that in Dragon Ball something as simple as a training partner can massively improve the results of said training. Like how Goku and Gohan became way more powerful than Vegeta and Trunks in the time chamber even though they spent less time there. It's because Trunks and Vegeta basically trained in isolation meanwhile Goku and Gohan were training together practically the whole time. Or how in preparation for Vegeta and Nappa's arrival the humans were able to become several times more powerful, arguably a bigger increase than what Goku got when he trained with Kami, in 1/3rd of the time. Gohan in Trunks' timeline wouldn't have anyone to train with since everyone else would either be far too weak or they were already dead.
Will their be a comparison between furture trunks and current DBS Trunks since they would be about the same age and around the same level of difficulties; Manga Trunks having to deal with buu (while fused, I'm sure goten and trunks trained seriously under Piccolo) and they did defend 17's island from pirates or something, as well as Pre Super Hero Trunks showing more interest in battling (Mai aside) then tech, and I doubt Vegeta would allow Trunks to shrink on training. Then we have Future Trunks 1st trip back (since it would be a bit unfar to compare him to Goku black arc Future Trunks)
I would like to add a point, what's not getting taken account. Future Goku most likely kelp training prior to catching the hard virus. So gohan could honestly scale himself using future goku b4 the heart virus. Gohan could scale a bit higher than we think; somewhere between mecha Frieza & future Trunks seem like a great scale to place Future Gohan w/ a PL of 175 mill.
I got two questions about the future timeline where Gohan dies: 1 - Did no one tell the Earth warriors about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber? 2 - What happened to the whole "spend one day on Earth" the dead had? Couldn't Goku, Vegeta or Piccolo come back for a day, to offer guidance, if nothing else?
I would have to disagree on Gohan not being as natural in the super saiyan mindset. One of Gohan's defining traits is his absurd rage boost. That seems to be very in-line with Super Saiyan; and in fact, much more in line with it than Goku who is very slow to anger.
I love future gohan. Side note I remember as a kid when my friends would say “goten is goku’s favorite child”. But with everything that gohan has achieved (without being the super sayian genetic trust fund kid ,luck of the draw) and knowing goku as a character and literally naming him after his grandfather there’s no way gohan is not the favorite 😂😂 (my opinion). Love your videos been a subscriber since I was 13 you and geekdom made my dragon Ball knowledge go to higher levels
I enjoy these videos. But to be fair Just because Gohan says he isn’t as strong as Goku before he died doesn’t necessarily make it so. For instance in the comic book Wally West was much faster than Barry but because Barry was his hero he had a mental block suppressing himself. So Gohan could be as strong or a little stronger than Goku was at that point.
I wonder what’ll happen if he was SSJ2 or better. Though he most likely stopped training after his dad died and cause of that he wasn’t able to beat the androids. Fighting them didn’t give him any boost due to them not being organic. (Posted this before finishing the video)
Android saga purely inspired by the movie Terminator actually ended up producing one of the greatest DBZ arcs of all time. Without Terminator there is no Androids or Cell, the series wouldve went a entirely different direction.
Thanks for this, I honestly thought Future Gohan was stupid strong because of how well he put up a fight against *two* androids. The cinematic was better 😂😂.
The most things, when dont know about android, Chichi never let Gohan to train with Goku, (you see what happen with Gohan in Super, he even dont outmatch with his SSJ form to deal with Ginyuu although Goku/vegeta in the base form can handle well), and as you know when everyone die, he train ALONE,(if Gohan train with Picolo it's still fine) that make DIFFERENT, The fact that: SSJ still need the base form strong enough to transform, and you know even train with Goku he still need above 3 years to tranform, and Future Gohan never even have a partner to train with after Trunk grow up
Gohan was weak because he never was properly trained. Goku taught Gohan not just how to fight but how to draw out super sayian and ki control. As well as battled with him. Gohan was weak because he lacked experience and proper training.
exactly this, is like if you would take away Mike Tyson, or Mohammed Ali's ONLY person who could train him away, from when he was a kid, they would also not get THAT strong.
Future gohan= self taught
Main gohan= perfect learning environment and guidance
If only Gohan had known about the tingly back feeling .
In the anime I got the impression that he could possibly take either 17 on 18 on in a fair bout if they were by themselves but was simply overwhelmed by their teamwork, which got him killed in the end. The manga on the other hand was made it more than clear that either one of them could demolish Gohan singlehandedly if they got serious.
Exactly, he could’ve beat 1 of them but with difficulty
@@dark_nightwing_xl2797 you didn't read the last part
@@dark_nightwing_xl2797there’s really nothing to suggest that. The androids were known to toy with their prey and they never looked overly serious in The History of Trunks outside of saying he’s “dangerous today.” In the manga it’s obvious since they told him they weren’t even using half their power the last time they fought.
Unfortunately Future Gohan didn’t get the plot armor or ass pulls that Present Gohan has been afforded.
@@brad2881 I’m talking about a potentially 1vs1
@@dark_nightwing_xl2797 Goten and trunks were fighting cell jr's in dbs . Not 1 vs 1 but taken them all at once
Atleast that version of kid Goten and trunks will beat 18 from the cell saga and buu saga easilly.
Daizenshuu u also mentions Goten to not be far from Gohan power
Gohan that is stronger than 18
Also on their fight in the tournament Goten told Trunks to not go 100% on 18.
And 18 was shocked scared with trunks ki blast
One of my top characters in all of DB…he had some of the best quotes out there…
“You know you can’t win. You can’t destroy what I really am! Even if you destroy this body someone even stronger would surface and take my place! Not one death will go unaccounted for, not one!”
“There is no end for me, NO END.”
They were very un Dragonball like quotes from a character.
“Not one death will go unaccounted for! Not one!” That is an especially great quote, thanks for pointing these out!
Trunks: "This is where Gohan's story ends."
@@loregasmic TFS reference. Very cruel but very funny at the same time.
The History of Trunks (on vhs 😅) was what got me into DB in the first place.
I always used to wonder who that weird alien guy was who Trunks sliced during the end credits... lol
P
It still amazes me how popular future gohan is! Despite having such little screen time in the series
I pick him in every game possible tbh
He is the true savior of Dragon Ball, without him there would be no trunks or bulma or anyone if he would have died with others the Androids would have killed the remaining people including Bulma and trunks from the future
The biggest reason I love that version is because it shows how even that limitless potential we know Gohan to have, can be greatly hindered by the loss of his friends, family, and any really significant training partners (That aren't constantly trying to murder him). The fact that he goes out knowing the odds are crazy stacked against him, yet is still outwardly hopeful, and optimistic is one of the best heroic deaths. My favorite version of that scene will always be the Legacy of Goku games version.
@@dionstewart7394 underrated game series
@@jrose4731 Tell me about it. I was in a group home for young men when I got the Legacy of Goku, Metroid Fusion and an SP. That game got me through so much, the graphics are beautiful, and it was incredible for its time. I a love a remaster that didn't screw it up.
Gohan gets crazy powerful when he is trying to SAVE people.
In the future he's lost too much, it's broken him. And that is expressed in the loss of his arm as well. Tragic.
Or you know
Toriama didn't feel like thinking about it
yeah now hes the only one who can save people and he folds
He also didn't have the ability to train with his veteran father in the hyperbolic time chamber
What if toriyama leaves cliffhangers and plot holes just for us to come up with
@@FazeRustyNuts he died from heart virus which makes him not live in the after world like fighter deaths
One of the rare instances of the anime doing it better. Put great gravity into Trunks' original SS transformation
I don't feel that the Anime did it better although it was a great moment. I think that the manga-accurate portrayal of Tunks already being a SS adds to the horror & bleakness of that timeline, that Gohan while still heroic and impactful was ultimately just another casualty of the Android's reign of terror. He didn't die and give Trunks a power boost, Gohan died because he simply wasn't strong enough and the Androids got sick of toying with him. I think the manga version makes you feel how hopeless Trunks was. His mentor and older brother figure got killed and all he could do was weep, knowing in his heart he was nowhere near ready to be the hero that Earth needed.
the anime is usually superior when it comes to Dragonball
@@tommy2170 I find that the anime version did it better while also feeling MORE hopeless by giving the characters hope in the form of Gohan’s determination and Trunk’s confidence after the death of Gohan just to really cement the fact that they stood no chance, the manga just seems to have a lack of thought or care for Trunk’s storyline.
@@tommy2170 he gave him a power boost that was useless as shown in a fight a few scenes later so it's arguably more bleak
@@tommy2170 the anime also showed how hopeless trunks was when we trunks in super saiyan trying to fight the androids but came up short and ended up in the hospital and the anime gave future gohan more justice to his character than the manga did
To me I think comes down to that Gohan isn't a fighting genius like Goku, Piccolo, and Vegeta. The reason main Gohan was so strong is he had 2 of the 3 training him his whole life and thus was able to tap into his hidden power. But future Gohan lost both his masters early in life and had to figure it out on his own. I think we see this through Trunks who also isn't a genius level fighter and also hit a power wall against the Androids. It wasn't until he traveled back and trained with his dad that he was able to go through it. I think if future Gohan traveled back and trained with Goku he would've unlocked his hidden potential as well.
You're definitely correct in that regard. Not having guidance from any of those more experienced figures would have been a massive hit to Gohan's training results. He doesn't seem to flourish without others like Goku and Piccolo pushing him to do so...
Trunks doen’t hit a power wall. He's only 17 by the time he contacts the main timeline, and is already stronger than Future Gohan.
@@TonyMishima92 Still he became a lot stronger training with Vegeta than he ever would've on his own.
@@146zigzag3 That's a different point, but true.
That fact future gohan got ssj by himself is pretty impressive and im the anime he was strong andoid saga standards so I would say he did pretty good with the cards he was dealt
If Future Gohan was in DBS, he would become SSB tier by simply throwing a fist or two.
💀💀💀
He wasn’t weak, I think he could’ve beat 1 android at the time
literally 😑
Damn, guess he’ll never get strong enough then
@@InkBlotts True, since he did get wiped completely from existence
Future Gohan also had survivor's guilt, when all the Z fighters got wiped out by C17 and 18, he was the only one alive. So instead of pure anger/rage that could turn him into ssj2 or further heights, he was mainly pissed at himself.
He dwelled on wearing his father's gi but not being anywhere as powerful as Goku; Also not visiting Chichi for many years because of guilt, he couldn't save the people on Earth from dying to the Androids.
Trunks was his only hope because Future Gohan sees young Trunks to have potential, unfortunately Future Gohan viewed himself to have peaked since he didn't know they could go beyond ssj. If Future Gohan went back in time, he certainly would have gone close to ssj2 by training with goku in the time chamber, but survivor's guilt by seeing everyone alive in the present timeline may have been too overwhelming.
Just a tad bit head canony
If Gohan fought the Androids several times, I thought he would have enough Zenkai boosts to eventually become stronger than them… but whatever Toriyama 🤷
He could become strong but he never hit ascended or ss2 so he'd never be able to beat 2 on 1
@@ThatGuyThaiWhich is crazy it took Vegeta one beating and 1 year of training to ascend. Gohan got beaten for years by the androids and never figured he needed more power. Even with a SSJ future Trunks they would have lost because Trunks was too weak.
@@andrebryant5081 one year of training with ANOTHER super saiyan is busted. Zenkai for both. Future Gohan didn't get a chance to train with Trunks for a year.
Not a plothole they literally ran out of senzus therfore no more zenkais they had to heal the old fashioned way which takes time also in the manga Gohan likely hasn’t fought them more than like 2-3 times.
Goku and pals also could've reached out to Gohan from King Kai's planet and given him training tips, or told him how to master SSJ.
7:10 That's not what Gohan is thinking here. He's not so foolish as to throw himself at the androids knowing he can't win, especially considering how long he's been hiding from them to get to this point.
He's merely making sure that if the worst happens, Trunks won't die as well. It does NOT mean he think he will lose, just that it's a risk.
He could’ve left
I wish bulma could have built gohan a place to train like vegeta but I understand she probably didn’t have the resources. And I just wish someone could have helped from the afterlife with some kind of advice to gohan
@@reptilian_geneticist was popo alive?
I always wondered what happened to the gravity chamber she built for Vegeta after Goku came back from yardrat..
@@UniVS427 I’m thinking destroyed possibly or she may have needed parts to make the Time Machine
@@reptilian_geneticist It is not a plot hole, Akira is simply not a very good writer. I think Geekdom called him a discovery writer as he writes as he goes.
@@reptilian_geneticist how tf would gohan or anyone else for that matter know the time chamber was a thing, he doesn't even know popo or kami existed
I like how in the anime he's shown to be on par with at least 1 of the androids at any given time but just can't handle their tag team, especially after losing his arm. Even if they were just toying with him, you also see him fighting without transforming sometimes too as both sides warm up against each other. It makes for an interesting dynamic and feels like the androids only take him out cause he's close to the point where he could potentially kill 1 of them if he had a clear 1 on 1 matchup. Showing that he was growing throughout, even though he had to struggle on his own to get stronger.
I really think the anime handled the entire future Trunks saga better with the one special, and gave more reason for Gohan's sacrifice, with him seeing his limits being reached, especially with just 1 arm left, and needing to provide that extra push for Trunks, as well as showing Trunks what would happen to him if he weren't careful, because Trunks thought 2 super saiyans together would be unstoppable and he needed to learn that super saiyans can be killed. A favorite story of mine, definitely top tier, and I think Gohan just missing out on that training with his friends and family is enough of a reason for him to be weaker. Though future Bulma definitely should've made him and Trunks a gravity chamber
I’m surprised bulma didn’t invent a robotic arm for Gohan
@@86twin Maybe it felt too android for them to be comfortable with. Heck, considering how powerful Gero's androids were made off of humans, imagine how powerful a saiyan android would be
I feel dragon ball kakarot really make us as the players feel the struggle that gohan faced whilst facing the androids, that fight was especially difficult and once he was out of power you felt so helpless and knew what was coming even if you technically knew because you were a fan of the franchise
13:15 The version of tween/teen Gohan when he turns super saiyan...but _before_ Goku cuts his hair is really cool. It should be in more video games as an alternate skin/outfit.
I liked gohan best when piccolo was training him.
Back when he had the sword
A bigger question is why didn't Future Master Roshi use the mafuba ( evil containment wave ) to seal away the androids ? And why didn't he teach it to future Gohan and trunks ?
Why didn't Mr. Popo get in contact with Gohan to train him
@@andrebryant5081 Why didn't Popo mentioned the hyperbolic chamber to everyone so all the Z fighters could train long enough to completely demolish the androids and cell?
They should of notified the z fighters right after the first death a Way to get stronger
I always feel like the idea of Future Gohan was an interesting concept to explore more. To this day and even though he only had so much screen time, he’s still loved. I would like a what if series someday.
2:55 - I just so happened to be thinking about the power-scaling around these characters earlier, and I'd like to point out that Trunks was considerably impressed with Goku when they met, and even said that he was _"Even more impressive than the stories made him out to be",_ and this was likely one of the reasons why meeting Goku reassured Trunks and gave him even more hope that they could win. Basically, it wouldn't make sense for Trunks to be impressed by someone who wasn't even as strong as himself or Gohan, which goes further to suggest that Goku was Stronger than Future Gohan before he died...
5:25 - I would say that Trunks' ability to basically one-shot King Cold, who is suggested to be superior to Frieza, who himself is stronger than he was on Namek, probably means that both he and Goku are at a level significantly above what Goku was on Namek. Which is plausible, given his training on Yardrat.
18:00 - And, in my opinion, he had to cut some corners to do this. Which is why Gohan actually never recieves any support from the dead and all the others who could have helped him like they would have if those things weren't omitted from the story. I've thought a lot about this topic - Just went through a massive discussion on it myself recently - And while I agree with most of what you said, I've still always believed that the events of this timeline, and storyline in general are a bit contrived in many ways. And one of the biggest things I point to is how the narrative of future timeline doesn't really address certain things that would have led to the story's resolution if not for Toriyama going out of his way to tell a more hopeless story. There's even the factor of Goku conveniently dying of a random virus out of nowhere when the world needed him the most (like some Avatar sht) - something completely unlike anything else we've ever seen in the story. I never believed the virus came from Yardrat, and I have solid arguments as to why - but in hindsight, it would have been a far better plot-point if it had. It would have explained some stuff, and tied Goku's death to the casualty of the story, rather than just being a blatant invention of the plot to remove him from the events. It's still one of the greatest storylines in Dragonball, but it has a lot of problems.
On another note, I tend to prefer the anime's depiction in a lot of ways, over the Mangas, I feel it does this saga better justice...
Trunks was relative to Gohan after the 3 year time skip after gohan died ☠️ futurhan is a fraud
@@tastedivinefury2198 Forreal. Toriyama swapped Gohan and co. out with a whole other cast in the future...
I Always wondered Why none of the z fighters tried to connect with or pass a training tip to Gohan or Trunks through king Kai or something like that. Either to tell them about the chamber or how to surpass or even become a SS.
Maybe also tell them about the new planet namek and their dragon balls
Popo too on Earth, for the Chamber
Lazy writing
Exactly I don’t know why someone like piccolo didn’t go to king kai to give gohan guidance and for king Kai to also tell them where new namek is
Also I feel like his mental state held him back alot too he was alone for years fighting to survive training the mind is just as important as the body future gohan wouldnt have had the same level of battle strategy as present adult gohan for that reason
Toriyama is making up as he goes. That's all there is to it
The story does an extremely good job of legit showing us why he was weaker. Firstly gohan isn't as strong as goku, not even close by the start of the android arc, secondly this would still be around the time where we could still calculate power levels, so with super saiyan 50x.. add that on to a gohan who hasn't gotten proper training (like he did in the cell arc btw) and bam you have a gohan with a very very weak first stage of super saiyan, and keep in mind the androids are above base super saiyan.
Gohan's got proper training with Piccolo as a toddler for a year. Plus he trained with Krillin in the space ship.
@@andrebryant5081 proper training in the android arc. The z fighters including piccolo died in the initial android onslaught, from that point on gohan only had trunks (who is significantly weaker) than him to train with, unlike gohan had when he was in the past, with the hyperbolic timechamber and goku training him.
@@forgottenherossb4129 A decade of fighting teaching himself how to turn SSJ with no mystic training like his father I would say Gohan self train himself very well. So well he taught Trunks how to turn SSJ.
@@andrebryant5081 yes but despite all that still lost to the androids, Goku trained as a kid and for decades as well, became super saiyan and still despite all of that stood no chance against android 17 or 18, also the androids were weaker in the future timeline compared to the past, so it really goes to show how weak gohan was.
If future gohan had access to the same things he had in Z like the time chamber, or someone else at all he would have cleared the androids no doubt, but since there wasn’t any of that he failed to do so
If only Gohan would’ve known ab the hyperbolic time chamber
The idea of Future Trunks going around whipping his head around slapping people with his hair would be absolutely hilarious...especially ponytail ssj Trunks lmao....
I had a similar thought about future Gohan because in the original timeline where Goku dies from a heart virus no one knows that the Androids are coming, and nobody is preparing for them at that time, Gohan would focus on school as he promised his mom, and would have become much weaker during those three years of not training, plus he would be very unmotivated after Goku's death of the heart virus because he is gone forever, and Vegeta would be a weaker Super Saiyan because he had no extra motivation for training unlike the other timeline where they found out they were going to be killed by some Androids. When everyone dies Gohan has to train himself which he doesn't know how to do very well on his own, since Piccolo didn't train him well enough like Goku would have done in the other timeline, that's why Gohan has a much rougher way of training without knowing about Korin Tower or Kami's Lookout, he trains and barely survives, and now you'd think he could get a zenkai boosts like Vegeta but he can't because he didn't have enough Senzu Beans to take risks so many times, and whenever he barely survived a fight he'd spend a long time waiting for it to heal, or force training, neither of which is a good idea for getting stronger fast. It is obvious that his progress was very slow, and the fact that he had to hide, and he had no one then to take care of him and give him food while he was recovering from such hard battles, and he did not have the mindset of a Saiyan to think about the greater powers he could attain, because him and Trunks thought that there was nothing better than a Super Saiyan or like Trunks just pumping more power without thinking about other things that are just as important in the fight. And Gohan must have had a subconscious thought in the back of his head that maybe they would let him survive the fight like in the past in order to get stronger after recovery but he totally lost hope when they said they were going to kill him because they got bored of him.
I like the video, but even a low to intermediate familiarity with dbz would inform us that only one of those 2 Gohans was trained by a ssj Goku in a hyperbolic time chamber and then fought cell. There is no real mystery around this power difference.
I'll always wonder why Mr. Popo didn't come find them and tell them about the time chamber. Gohan could've also gone to the lookout, assuming he's alive, but if Gohan has senzu beans and Korin is alive, Popo should be too This would've let him and Trunks get strong the way Goku and Gohan did. Otherwise I think Gohan didn't have anyone much to train with, Trunks was little for most of his life. I mean 4 years after Goku first went SSJ, his power hadn't really gone up a whole lot for that many years of training. One year in the time chamber and he's like 10x stronger. So I do think not accessing the chamber is why he didn't get all that powerful. Being able to spar in there with Trunks would've really helped. Vegeta and Trunks didn't spar and as a result couldn't hit SSJ grade 4.
That's what I've been wondering lately (maybe did long ago and forgot, too)... why didn't Gohan visit the lookout and get informed about the room, seeing he was already going to Korin's tower.
What was so weird was how gohan did train and yet his amazing latent potential people brag about never was showcased in this timeline. I will say this is my second favorite version of Gohan behind teen ssj2 Gohan.
Is it really all that weird when you go back and look at everything it took for the main timeline Gohan to become so powerful? The training main Gohan received was far greater than anything his future self could have ever done on his own.
By teen you mean CG SSJ2 Gohan or Buu Saga Gohan?
@@FinfectionStill all this potential Gohan has an years of fighting he should have been ultra SSJ just because Vegeta and future Trunks figured it out in 1 year.
Because all his potential is bs plot armor and nothing more. Just another way for Whoriyamma to give a Ass-Pull-Ku family member power for no reason. This Gohan was actually Gohan and not Ass-Pull-Han. A well written character. Not an Ass-Pull-Artist. Best version IMO.
@@andrebryant5081 An inexperienced Future Gohan training by himself in a post-apocalyptical world is not the same as Vegeta and Trunks training together in the room of spirit and time together for a year.
That version had no guidance, and had to figure it out all on his own pretty much. Gohan at his strongest always needs someone to give him an extra push, Future Gohan didn’t have anyone. Respect to him though, he managed to hold off the androids long enough for Bulma to make her machine and trained Trunks. I’d take him over lazy asspull Super Hero Gohan any day.
Future Gohan had a full year of guidance from Piccolo and however long he was on the space ship with Krillin.
I dont know why Why I always felt future Gohan had much more potential than the present timeline one, they both are the same character still it always gave me a feeling that future Gohan would have kicked alot more ass if he was alive
Your videos are popping a lot more in my algorithm. WY more than before. About damn time
You probably finally gave him a like and worked it into your algo
Without even watching the video. The answer is “plot holes and inconsistencies”
Prepare to be surprised when you actually watch the video.
@@LSMMIKE Haha. Sounds good, I look forward to it. Great content as always Mike.
@@LSMMIKE 15:21 - The cause of the problem and the brutally-difficult to figure out 'Solution' to it is the SAME based on 'Terminator' since thats what this android-arc is based on: Meaning that This 'Casuality' of the Time-Loop's could have been going-on for two, OR 1-Million Loops in all its hopeless-aberrance Until it was snuffed-out or at least 'HALTED' by those living in the main-timeline of the story.
It is a shared movie-dbz-problem that is so-manifold that it highlights the dangers of both time travel & Either the Judgement of God himself or something to do with fate and the ones running things in the background of reality that we not only DONT get to see much of the original-timelines..
But that ALL of its 'Dangers' they suffered can be seen, ALL in-one event: The Abandoned Time-Machine that original-timeline Cell used to get to the main timeline.
Because THAT timelines Trunks literally intended to go to the Main-Timeline way, Earlier than the Trunks who made it there did. The only one to ALMOST make it to this Timeline.
Because that creepy incident on its own is the story asking the fans 'How-many times did Perfect-Cell 'Win' in every previous time-loop in the end before all of this finally caught-up to the 'Main'-Timeline? How many Trunks, And Goku's and planet-earth's were wiped-out before this one, Trunks from his timeline managed to clue the Main-timeline Dbz cast into the fact that something was worse with their world than just frieza, And Saiyans and all that?
Its the same, Gruesome-question that persists in Terminator as well because of those who Time Travelled that ALSO gives clues in there & In the backstory that this could have happened just 5, Or 5, Billion-Times of the same, Terrifying thing happening over, & Over, & Over.
Where we already know by the 'First' movie that this has happened TWICE. & That for it to have happened twice, There was almost certaintly a third-time before that. How does one ever 'Stop' something so malignant and like a 'Rot' that keeps repeating in 'Time' itself.
Main Gohan had the potential to become a great warrior, but lacked the will; Future Gohan had the will, but lacked the potential.
They had the same potential 😂 Future Gohan just didn't have the guidance and training our Gohan did
Future gohan didn't have the guidance.
The writing was bad
Really great video. I like how you brought up how there were established limits in Z. That is one thing I do hate about Super: the idea that “training” can somehow make you infinitely stronger.
To be fair, that disease started in the Buu saga when Goku gained Super Saiyan 3 without some special trigger or requirement, or Vegeta getting 2 before going Majin. All from long training. Super just carried that disease 5 fold.
@@fredv6237 In defense of Z, Goku gained Super Saiyan 3 not simply by training. He was in a Spirit body. Gotenks used the magic of fusion to obtain it. Vegeta got SSJ2 by using the magic of Majin. There is nothing confirming that he was SSJ2 without it. So it's not like they went crazy. Besides, going from the Cell saga to the Buu saga was 7 years worth of straight training. Vegeta, who was already SSJ Grade 3 taking 7 years to go SSJ2 is understandable. But these guys were going SSJG and then SSB and then SSB Kaioken and then Perfected Blue in a matter of months. Then Goku went UI Sign and then MASTERED Ultra Instinct in less than a half and hour.
And then Caulifla went SSJ by a back tingle! Then went SSJ2 literally within 5 minutes of not even knowing what SSJ or SSJ2 was! Kale goes LSSJ because she is jealous? Then she masters the form that not even Broly could do after 30 some odd years? Nah, there's no comparison here 😂
Gohan when he was just an untrained child with a power level of 1 got a boost to 981 after just basic training with Piccolo for a year, Future Gohan would have a decade if he got just a single boost per year he would be at minimum 10,000x stronger and that's not even including Super Saiyan
Facts it's just a pothole he got his potential unlocked on planet Namek meaning he had no reason to not stay getting stronger.
He already had most of that power tho it was latent. But still there’s no way he doesn’t get 2-3 times stronger in 15 years
@@tastedivinefury2198 we also can't forget that some attack's temporarily boost Ki the usual Masenko gives 2x boost but the Raging Masenko used by Future Gohan is actually an upgraded version so it would be more than 2x on it's own
plus 2x more for Rage boost and this is excluding Kamehameha which he most likely learned from Roshi (he's actually shown using it in the anime but I was going by the Manga) which would be another 2.2x boost
There's also nothing saying that Gohan couldn't have learned the Makankkousappo/Special Beam Cannon which is 3x stronger or more, i mean sure he'd be way weaker than present Gohan and probably couldn't even beat Super Saiyan 2 Gohan but the Future Androids were weaker than their present counterparts so he should have at least been able to beat them, it simply defys logic outside of plot/narrative.
Great video, I always wondered who was stronger between future hogan and future goku
Future Hogan's gonna leg drop the androids BROTHER
My head canon has always been that gohan had a huge mental block because in the story it is conveyed that he’s training everyday and is almost obsessed with it but you have to realize that even if he wins against the androids there’s nothing left for him in the world for him to live for. The reason he fights and the reason why he’s so tragic is because of how selfless in nature he is. So the way I see the final scene where he goes to fight off the androids I see it as him wanting to die and taking that chance
Trunks' information leading to more training and less learning
Less food ressources, when Gohan is older
No training partners that are actually strong enough to train Gohan
Etc.
Goten and trunks barely trained and was stronger than him
Well one he never trained with his dad and piccolo they had no prior warning, no one to train with once they all died, and if he ever did try to train hard they probably would of killed him sooner. He was just at a massive disadvantage
this, is like if Mike Tyson's ONLY coaches who could ever train him died, he would have potential but not someone to guide/train him with it.
@@SuperHns figuring things out on your own takes decades, with a teacher/coach you can learn in half the time
The androids can't read chi. He could have trained without them ever finding him
@@bobjohnson1633 with who? Like Rey in the Last Jedi just medidate and hit the sky? You need someone to guide especially being so young as he is. Didn't you see who helped Gohan reach his potential? It was Goku.
My favorite Dragon Ball Character. He inspired me with his selflessness. Can't wait to watch this video!
Yeah this man's level of compelling research and presentation of that research for his stance absolutely deserves a sub. Well done
Gohan literally didnt have someone on his level or higher to train with. Didnt have senzu beans so couldn't risk asnmany zenkais, and didn't knownabout the time chamber
Honestly, knowing how the cell saga ends and what comes later, I do think Toriyama would have made a better story if the survivor who trained trunks was some one else. Maybe Tien using Kai-oh-Ken so we got some pay off on his King Kai training, even if it still was never used in the main time line? There's a couple of interesting options, but the key is that it'd be some one who'd be stronger then a little kid, even a sayian one, like future trunks was when the androids attacked, but also some one who ultimately had no chance against the main time line androids even with the 3 years advanced notice for preparing, so it doesn't feel weird that this unseen alternate time line version of them wouldn't have been strong enough to be their androids, but would have thought Trunks, with his sayian blood, might, if he could just stay alive long enough.
It is what it is though, and what it is is just an awkward piece of writing, awkward enough to warrant entire 20 minute videos trying to justify it. Which to be clear, I'm all here for, I know what dragon ball is and isn't, and I love it even with both actual plot holes and not completely im-plausible but feel like a plot hole stuff like this.
The bonus chapter in DBS shows future Gohan escaping from the androids, but it does not show a super saiyan Vegeta, meaning maybe for a while Gohan would have believed it was a Goku specific transformation. He may not have even trained towards that and it just happened years later for him.
I always wondered how different things would be if future gohan went back in time instead of trunks
Something that should also be considered is that maybe in Trunks' timeline, the Saiya-Jin + Earthling miscegination may have not produced a stronger than both offspring like in our timeline, so maybe Gohan simply wasn't that gifted.
My guy whipped out "miscegenation" 😎🤣
But why would that sort of thing be different between the timelines? The laws of reality were exactly the same, the only difference was the way certain events transpired. A fundamental thing like genetics probably wasn’t changed.
It doesn't make sense for much of anything to be different up until the point of Goku died.
Trunks and Gohan were already alive before the timeline split, also.
Be soooo so fr
I actually have some criticisms. I would argue that Gohan is not capable of taking advantage of the huge bursts in power he achieved in the cell saga because he has become a hardened warrior and as a result is incapable of experiencing the emotional shocks that cause saiyan's to mutate. Also in the case of dragon ball super gohan did in fact train in the time chamber via the manga and despite that he was incapable of using his full potential until prior to the tournament of power when piccolo helped him regain his instincts as a warrior which suggests that that is actually what gohan needs to use his full potential not necessarily training alone but as is the case with future gohan he cannot shut himself off to his emotions completely because what the old kai specifically did to him is only useful if he can implement his emotions as we saw first hand when gohan got angry during the ritual and tapped into his power followed by being told by the old kai to use it like super saiyan implying he's implementing emotion since ssj is fueled by rage. also one overlooked aspect of modern gohan's power is that the old kai suggests that his ability to unlock potential actually takes the fighter beyond the normal limits of their capabilities and if "firing it up like super saiyan" aka rage really is the key to gohan unlocking that power beyond his potential in combination with his instincts as a warrior the approach super took does actually make sense considering they made sure gohan had his instincts reawakened prior to experiencing a shock to his emotions.
sorry if that came off negative lol I enjoyed the content though
Our Gohan was trained in the time chamber by beyond SSJ Goku and also achieved that power. That same power which was far more powerful than Vegeta and trunks in V2 and V3 SSJ.
Future Gohan had no trainers or partners and was stuck with base SSJ.
Excellent breakdown. Unfortunately, going back to look at previous arcs causes me to view DBS in disdain. Hopefully they learn from their mistakes when it returns.
I think the biggest reason why Future Gohan is weaker than the Gohan we know has to come down to his mentality and not his physical strength. Future Gohan was trying to imitate his father and be like him in power and confidence rather than being his own person. Had he had a that mentality going in, then I would think Future Gohan would have tapped into his potential soon rather than much later. Goku knew of Gohan's potential and his training wasn't just to make him a better fighter. It was also to build Gohan's confidence and believing he is an even better fighter than Goku.
Mike i like these videos where you just pull up the graphics, similar effect as editing but much less tedious than a long detailed sequence of edits
I want you to stick around so keep having fun with these videos!
Been following you since 2015 Mike, love the content! Keep it up!
Thanks, I appreciate it.
I really like your explanation! However, the thing that always kind of confused me was that I feel like Gohan would have been able to access super Saiyan 2 just for being so mad that piccolo his father everybody including krillin died against the Androids, and that would have made him so angry that he would have accessed his hidden potential.
At the end of the day I understand that it's a narrative thing. I'm glad you picked this topic because it's something that's been bothering me for a really long time, especially because they say that the Androids are weaker than the ones in the canon timeline. The best I can assume is that Goku's training and how to become a super Saiyan and how to tap into the anger is the only explanation, but it pisses me off still
Future Gohan had no idea there was even anything beyond super saiyan, not only that but he is merely a grade 1 super saiyan Cell saga Gohan had to be a full power grade 4 super saiyan to achieve super saiyan 2, it isn’t just some rage thing like beast Gohan you have to actually meet certain requirements to achieve it.
I think the reason he died is because the writers forgot a lot of little details and simply didn't care.
Skipping over the fact that the z-fighters all fought individually and Piccolo didn't rally them after Vegeta stupidly fought first and died (which is a huge plot hole as he would have done it)...
Some of the major details they forgot is that Gohan would have known how to bring the z-fighters back if needed; he could have contacted Bulma and spoke about finding New Namek. We also know damn well Goku and/or Piccolo would have contacted Gohan via King Kai in some capacity. Kami would have said something to Popo or Korin before his death, Popo would have spoken to Gohan, something would have happened there.
There are a plethora of issues with Future Gohan's timeline that just don't make a bit of sense.
For real, the future timeline is definitely an example of lazy writing. I can't see Goku and Piccolo not using a one day pass from baba, to come back and help Gohan train in the room of spirit and time, and yes the fact that Kami told popo about the dragon balls on namek when he died in the Saiyan saga there's no reason to think he wouldn't have done something similar here.
At very least the fact that Gohan gave trunks the last sensu bean, that means he was in touch with Korin over the years so I can't see Korin not telling Gohan, to go to Mr Popo and gain access to the room of spirit and time.
Why Bulma did not create a mechanic arm for Future Gohan?
Imagine if king kai/goku told gohan and trunks about the time chamber!
They had Mr. Popo who should have told him
Ah yes, he struggled to destroy two androids which individually surpaced the alien emperor of universe in sheer power.
So weak!
Cell saga Gohan had a full year of gravity, ki control, and martial arts training with Goku. Plus the three years training with Piccolo and Goku before the androids showed up. In the future timeline, they were never warned about the androids and so probably didn't train with surviving them in mind. Which means Goku likely wouldn't have been so keen on sneaking Gohan away to train with him.
I think one point that is often overlooked is setup. As bullshit as Gohans powerups may be, aside from the very first one against Raditz, there is always a setup before he snaps and gets a power boost.
He trains with Piccolo before the Saiyans, then sees him and most of the others die before he snaps at Nappa.
He trains a bit on Namek and gets his power unlocked, then nearly killed by Recoome before he snaps at Frieza.
Then he trains for 3 years for the Androids, then for another one with Goku in the RoSaT, where he becomes a SSJ and masters it, and finally Android 16 dies to make him snap against Cell. And after that Goku had to motivate him until he really gave it 100%.
In the Buu Saga he trains with the Z sword, then gets a magical power up by a literal god that lets him fight at 100% power and efficency without transforming.
Heck even in Super he trains witj Piccolo to regain his power, then snaps after seeing Pan and later Piccolo being hurt in Super Hero.
I'm not saying it's good writting or whatever, but Gohan is a character that has amazing potential, but he needs others to get hurt for him to snap, and before that people who guide/train him so that when he snaps, his base power is high enough for him to tap into entirely new realms of power.
Future Gohan was roughly Namek level when Goku died. And Goku was the most important person/guidance in his life, despite overused DBZA memes. Then 3 years later, Piccolo and the rest of the Z fighters die to the sudden appearance of the Androids and he is left to pick up the pieces, alone, under constant thread.
He also doesn't have the experience or the grindset of Goku, Vegeta or Piccolo. After they lost to the Androids, all of them came up with ways to get stronger relatively quickly. Future Gohan probably thinks most about how to make it to the next day alive, or how to train Trunks. Even in his "badass version", he isn't really a fighter, rather a survivalist, probably with survival guilt.
TL:DR Future Gohan is missing multiple vital guiding figures, stepping stones and setups that main timeline Gohan went through. He is basically the peak post Namek Gohan could have reached on his own without any outside help/guidance/pushes.
Good points that make sense. Another thing to remember is that Gohan by nature is not like his father Kakarrot or Vegeta. If he was he would have asked Buruma to make him a x1000 gravity machine and when he is done he can attack the androids. I guess he did got stronger until he faced them it's just wasn't enough to throw them into the junk yard.
Anime Version : Could take on one of the androids at full power/stamina
Manga Version : Gets bodied by either one
Nah i think a 1v1 against Android 18, Gohan probably had a 50/50 chance and 30% Android 17
They didn't show it.
Gohan said he was going to kill both, who fight together. 17 then told him that he was not using half. Logically, Gohan thought he could beat both androids at 50%, which is equal to 1 at 100%.
Great job explaining it well, love the video keep it up yo!!!
I always wondered why Bulma didn’t make a spaceship and sent Gohan to new Namek to wish everyone back.
Nice video. I honestly think it's because Gohan didn't have Goku or anyone else to train him compared to in the main timeline where Goku trained with him in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. But yeah, it is also to make Future Trunks's timeline really dark. That scene where Gohan died and Trunks transformed to SSJ really got me right in the feels.
It definitely is a little hard to wrap the brain around sometimes, but I always rationalized it as the lack of a proper teacher and an emotional block, and I guess the arm. Because I feel like Dragonball characters seemed to jump ahead by being able to see other people do great things first. Like Goku showing the kids SSJ3
Mr. Popo really should have let them use the time chamber at some time even if Piccolo & Kami were gone.
There's one big flaw in the debate that I don't know if anyone has ever brought up why And how would future trunks know what the android's full power was
Why did he even fight the andriods when he knew he was weak
Because he wanted trunks to get a trigger to become a super saiyan so trunks had a chance to fight
@@Someguyzayd but trunks could just preserve the body in a preservation chamber take him to the past they use the dragon balls then they train gohan and he gets stronger
@@Allstarhero8900 come on man
Because he couldnt bear the thought of people dying without him doing anything. Simple as that
@@Someguyzayd couldn't Trunks go super sayian before Gohan died in the manga?
The Future Trunks Timeline can be confusing as it stands now. You've got two versions of Trunks and Mai running around (Bulma is alive again) but all the other Z warriors are still dead. IMO I'd like to see one set of the Trunks and Mai return to the main timeline and remain there. I'd also like to see the Other Trunks seek out either the Namekians or Granolah's 2 set Dragon Balls and wish back all that were lost over the years. Another option would be to get a 24 hour pass from otherworld for Piccolo and then find their own Dragon Balls (although the other 2 sets are most likely stronger) Future Trunk's timeline as always been a soft spot for me and I'd love to see it fully restored at some point.
Love the longer videos with the face cam,keep it up!
Can you PLEASE please please, do a video on how Strong Goku actually was in Namek? I ask this because, remember, Goku was heavily damaged, AND literally exhausted after using the Spirit Bomb. He probably had a powerlevel of literal zero by that point. So when he went Super Sayian, he still was significantly weaker than he would have been fresh and fully healed and rested
I’m planning to make a video on this topic very soon.
@@LSMMIKE oh wow, THANK YOU SO MUCH!! I am so excited I can't wait!? You're the best!!
I watch all your videos, you do such a great job, you are by far my favorite DragonBall-Tuber!
Interesting topic to think about to, would be...
If Dende survived, and he healed Goku right after Frieza came back from the Spirit Bomb, could a fully healed Zenkai boosted Goku defeat a injured tired Frieza, without even needing to go Super Sayian? I always thought about that... Like I guess it depends on just how damaged Frieza got, and how much power lost. And how strong Goku would be after getting healed at that point. He would get a Zenkai. So my guess is...
If Goku arrived to fight Frieza with a fresh power of 3 million. If Dende healed him right after the Spirit Bomb, his base power would probably be around 6 million, maybe 6 million. So a Kaioken ×20 would put him at about 120 million. Equal to Frieza full power
@@CharlesLawsonSermons I think Goku probably was at 2.5 Million and then 125 Million as a super Saiyan
@@CharlesLawsonSermons Maybe 2 Million and 100 Million because frieza also wasnt at his 120 million fp either
@@enoughaccuracyyt8609 hm, it makes me wonder, what if Vegeta did survive, and Dende could heal both Goku and Vegeta, just how many times would they each need to be healed before Frieza is to exhausted to keep up with them, and their constant Zenkais
if only goku or someone else had reached out and gave gohan and trunks the idea of going to the time chamber helping them find new namek etc….
Only goku knew of the time chamber and at the time piccolo wouldn’t have known either since he didn’t fuse with kami in trunks timeline so only goku knew of the time chamber and the secret died with him
@@nightinside101Mr. Popo who lived there for years knew about it.
@@andrebryant5081 true but no one else knew about the place to begin with and even if Mr Popo went down he’d just put himself in harms way
@@andrebryant5081 and in all the occurrences where earth was in danger even the Saiyan arc mr Popo not even once tried to tell them use the time chamber to prepare themselves so either way the z fighters were completely in the dark
I have a theory about saiyans and thinking about it, it would also make sense for this situation. So as we know, goku and the other saiyans are born with tails, and the whole monkey/ape charactistic thing going on. Goku was always a master at learning new abilities really fast just by watching, and I believe that was playing into the "Monkey see monkey do" saying. But I also believe Zenkais and when they break their limits, its also related to this, like they sense the power, and mimic it as best as they can. Thats why Trunks and goten was so fast at learning SSJ and also catching up in power to the others too. They are master at mimicing, both moves and power. But with the androids, since they cant sense their power, the rate they gained power, was very slow compared to other villians. Gohans rage boosts always mimiced the power that was infront of him and went back down, otherwise he would have either killed the enemy or it would have been pointless. which it has never been.
@ 2:35 he's not being literal here, he's talking about courage strong not actual power. the special even goes into that idea
Glad your back love your videos
Seeing the title as an embarrassingly big future gohan fan hurts. I am still excited for your video nonetheless! Here we go!
This concept makes realistic sense Imagine a real life example say if there was an alternate universe where Mike Tyson for example didn't meet Cus D'Amato and he just continued on the path he was on. it wouldn't even matter if he trained as hard as he could and had desire to even be a boxer he would be no where near as skilled and talented as he was in our timeline. He could possibly still be somewhat good due to his natural ability but no one can ever reach the true peak of their potential alone mental drive and desire play a part but without guidance and proper knowledge you would be very lucky to achieve even 50 percent of what you are truly capable of.
I would love if you would to do a what-if the senzu bean plant in the future timelines never went extinct
And yes I mean both Cell timelines and future trunks timeline
I think the thing that also factors into it is the lack of quality training available to Gohan. Piccolo died, thus no Kami or training partners. The only one to achieve Super Sayian passed away and Gohan didn't really have a comparable training partner to bring out the best of his abilities. It's worth mentioning in the past time line that all the characters were *much* stronger then they were caught blind sided by 17 and 18, so Gohan didn't get to benefit from his father's training either. So he had to train himself up, from the age of *9* with no mentors available or prior experience, against foes much stronger then a Super Sayian? Sure there was the time chamber but alone I get the impression it was as much about the training partner as it was the gravity and I get the impression Trunks and he, while close, weren't remotely on the same level.
I attribute Gohan's survival despite all those setbacks to be attributed to just how resilient he is as a character. He just kept getting up over and over again, and just when he finally felt he was much stronger then both of them? "Bro are you serious? We were just screwing around with you with half of our powers the entire time." Sadly, Gohan and Trunks just never had the quality of time to grow in that environment, just survive and hope they never get serious about killing them.
Meanwhile, Gohan achieving his potential had him train pretty solidly for 3 years under both Goku and Piccolo, who are both pretty much are the best mentors available when it comes to training. Then got an additional year of bonding time where he was able to achieve the best level of training for a solid year under his father. I would be willing to wager that that time spent efficiently training is worth more then the 20 or so years future Gohan would ultimately get over him of bottom of the barrel training, in an environment where being too loud can get him killed. I mean, Goku was *much* stronger then Trunks as a Super Sayian as he was able to fend off his sword attacks with just his finger shows how much quality of training meant; Goku had spent his entire life growing and developing as a martial artist, no one in the future could ever hope to achieve that without the experiences he had.
I mean, Trunks went back in time and trained with his father for a year, which while it wasn't as good as Goku was still able to enable him to overcome some serious milestones in his own development.
We love you laughing stock! ❤️
Hot damn, this is very interesting, I didn't think about it before.
Thanks for the informative video.
Another thing about Gohan in Trunks' timeline is that he had nobody to train with. It's a consistent thing that in Dragon Ball something as simple as a training partner can massively improve the results of said training. Like how Goku and Gohan became way more powerful than Vegeta and Trunks in the time chamber even though they spent less time there. It's because Trunks and Vegeta basically trained in isolation meanwhile Goku and Gohan were training together practically the whole time. Or how in preparation for Vegeta and Nappa's arrival the humans were able to become several times more powerful, arguably a bigger increase than what Goku got when he trained with Kami, in 1/3rd of the time. Gohan in Trunks' timeline wouldn't have anyone to train with since everyone else would either be far too weak or they were already dead.
Why didn't Popo contact Future Gohan and Trunks to train in the time chamber or help them contact the Namekians?
Will their be a comparison between furture trunks and current DBS Trunks since they would be about the same age and around the same level of difficulties; Manga Trunks having to deal with buu (while fused, I'm sure goten and trunks trained seriously under Piccolo) and they did defend 17's island from pirates or something, as well as Pre Super Hero Trunks showing more interest in battling (Mai aside) then tech, and I doubt Vegeta would allow Trunks to shrink on training. Then we have Future Trunks 1st trip back (since it would be a bit unfar to compare him to Goku black arc Future Trunks)
I would like to add a point, what's not getting taken account. Future Goku most likely kelp training prior to catching the hard virus. So gohan could honestly scale himself using future goku b4 the heart virus. Gohan could scale a bit higher than we think; somewhere between mecha Frieza & future Trunks seem like a great scale to place Future Gohan w/ a PL of 175 mill.
Imagine if they got the time machine earlier and goku and vegeta came to future trunks timeline to help gohan
Thanks for these videos. I'm loving it.
What happened to his inner potential?
he was just a boy when Goky and Piccolo got killed, is like imagine of a famous MMA fighter would lose HIS or HER only coach that could train them
@@SuperHns yeah your right
I got two questions about the future timeline where Gohan dies:
1 - Did no one tell the Earth warriors about the Hyperbolic Time Chamber?
2 - What happened to the whole "spend one day on Earth" the dead had? Couldn't Goku, Vegeta or Piccolo come back for a day, to offer guidance, if nothing else?
Vegeta was evil he ain’t getting no day
I still feel the in universe explanations are somewhat lacking the narrative reasons i get though the no hope type thing
I would have to disagree on Gohan not being as natural in the super saiyan mindset. One of Gohan's defining traits is his absurd rage boost. That seems to be very in-line with Super Saiyan; and in fact, much more in line with it than Goku who is very slow to anger.
I love future gohan. Side note I remember as a kid when my friends would say “goten is goku’s favorite child”. But with everything that gohan has achieved (without being the super sayian genetic trust fund kid ,luck of the draw) and knowing goku as a character and literally naming him after his grandfather there’s no way gohan is not the favorite 😂😂 (my opinion). Love your videos been a subscriber since I was 13 you and geekdom made my dragon Ball knowledge go to higher levels
I enjoy these videos.
But to be fair
Just because Gohan says he isn’t as strong as Goku before he died doesn’t necessarily make it so.
For instance in the comic book Wally West was much faster than Barry but because Barry was his hero he had a mental block suppressing himself.
So Gohan could be as strong or a little stronger than Goku was at that point.
I wonder what’ll happen if he was SSJ2 or better. Though he most likely stopped training after his dad died and cause of that he wasn’t able to beat the androids. Fighting them didn’t give him any boost due to them not being organic. (Posted this before finishing the video)
Android saga purely inspired by the movie Terminator actually ended up producing one of the greatest DBZ arcs of all time. Without Terminator there is no Androids or Cell, the series wouldve went a entirely different direction.
Thanks for this, I honestly thought Future Gohan was stupid strong because of how well he put up a fight against *two* androids. The cinematic was better 😂😂.
Great video man
This Version of Gohan serves as a Mentor to Trunk who dies in Flashback like He's Obi-Wan, or Qui Gon.
The most things, when dont know about android, Chichi never let Gohan to train with Goku, (you see what happen with Gohan in Super, he even dont outmatch with his SSJ form to deal with Ginyuu although Goku/vegeta in the base form can handle well), and as you know when everyone die, he train ALONE,(if Gohan train with Picolo it's still fine) that make DIFFERENT, The fact that: SSJ still need the base form strong enough to transform, and you know even train with Goku he still need above 3 years to tranform, and Future Gohan never even have a partner to train with after Trunk grow up
So they didn't have spaceship, dragon ball or a time chamber.Because i dont get if it was around why he didn't use it
Gohan was weak because he never was properly trained. Goku taught Gohan not just how to fight but how to draw out super sayian and ki control. As well as battled with him. Gohan was weak because he lacked experience and proper training.
exactly this, is like if you would take away Mike Tyson, or Mohammed Ali's ONLY person who could train him away, from when he was a kid, they would also not get THAT strong.