First thought that came to mind with the "Spirit Projection" feature is that the warlock stays inside a bag of holding (since they don't need to breathe anymore by this point). They get a signal from the party, pop out as a spirit, and wreak havoc that way. A high con save would be good for concentration, but worst case you just pop out of the bag yourself if you lose concentration. Just a fun concept to have a pocket warlock lol
I saw Spirit Projection more as a "physically go anywhere you want" ability with ways and means of harassing anyone between you and your destination (vault, cells where your friends are being kept, bedchamber of the king you're going to assassinate, etc) presuming you even want to show yourself instead of just ghosting through walls and floors. Sure, teleportation spells are available to non-warlocks at that level, but you could also choose not to manifest if it turns out the castle/dungeon is full of enemies. Never thought of it as an attack platform.
If you plan on using Fey Wanderer Ranger multiclassing into this subclass, your patron could easily be a fey from the Unseelie Court with a specialty for necromantic forces.
Worth considering that you can still cast a concentration based necromancy or conjuration spell from the ghost form, with the only consequence being that it'll then end the ghost form. That could still be okay, even tactically useful if you want to cast a spell while simultaneously teleporting your body to the ghost's space, or maybe to fall back to your body while leaving behind some summoned creature like from Summon Shadowspawn. It's still not ideal, but dropping the effect to cast a spell isn't the worst thing. (Note that I don't think that tactic would work RAW with Summon Undead or Summon Shadowspawn because of their "pokeball" material component. As a DM I'd still allow it if they had the component on their person, but to use the teleport fallback idea in a vanilla game, you'd have to use something like Hunger of Hadar or Danse Macabre instead of a Tasha's summon.)
If you go Pact of the Chain, then you can give a undead Imp or Sprite (for flavor) a Ring of Spell Storing and cast Summon Shadowspawn into it with other useful spells.
Remember that while projecting you don't have your spell focus (equipment). So you can only cast spells with material components if they're Conjuration or Necromancy (and don't have a gold cost). It's not just concentration that limits your casting. I think that feature is really about the phasing, to be honest...
The first thing that springs to mind for me is a multiclass with Oath of Conquest Paladin. Couple fear saves every round with Aura of Conquest and you get an amazingly efficient lockdown mechanism.
How Would you manage the ABility scores, though? Cause im planning on making 1 lv dip into a undead warlock in my conquest paladin, but the DC isnt that great and since its a STR based class I wont be able to invest that much in CHA for the DC.
@@lucaspereira551 Typically you will want at least a 16 CHA for the +3 to all saves. But considering you also need to have a good DC to frighten, I personally go for a 20 or 18. Dex is usually what suffers along with Int. Wisdom can stay a little low, like a 10 or a 12 since you are proficient in it and you have a bonus to it anyway. When i play them i usually go with a point buy of Str 14 Dex 10 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 15 I normally nab metallic dragonborn nowadays because dragon fear feat allows me to replace one attack to fear a group and then i can attack once to cause another fear. It is a half feat that gives a point in con str or cha. Do keep in mind to get a build that makes you comfy as early as possible since lvl 10 or so is when a campaign ends If you are determined to plan it out all the way, start paladin for heavy armor, then nab undead and then the rest paladin. Metallic Dragonborn +2 Cha +1 Str Str 15/16 Dex 8 Con 14 Int 8 Wis 10 Cha 17 Dragon Fear +1 Cha then Polearm Master. You can go with a 16 str til about lvl 11 but the frighten should make it easier to smash foes. Next to asi u get are for str. Last asi is to cha. This build focuses you as the controller and destroyer on a battlefield of those around you. I find sentinel is redundant when i can control so many. Plus a longer reach means i can tag chose trying to stay away from my aura.
@@lucaspereira551 If you're using Point Buy, just go: STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA 15 8 15 8 8 15 Pick whatever race you want, and put +1 into STR, +1 into CON, and +1 into CHA. That's pretty standard for Paladin.
A decent subclass for warlocks, an amazing subclass for warlock dips. I cannot wait to try this on a Conquest paladin. Conqueror 18, Deadlock 2; Conqueror 15, Deadlock 5; Conqueror 8, Deadlock 2, Sorcerer 10 - maybe divine for spirit guardians, maybe clocksoul for restore balance, maybe shadow for hound of ill omen. Maybe something that mixes in eloquence bard, play it as creepy compelling voice of the grave. Lots of things to try. Very exciting.
Watcher Pal 7 (or 8) / Undead Lock 2 / Divine Sorc 11 (or 10) also works very nicely. I like to call this the Heavenly Dread Watcher. Focus on Agonising Repelling Blast, keep up Concentration (usually Bless, sometimes something else, later Spirit Guardians is good), stay near the casters to protect them with the Aura, and everyone starts with a big boost to Initiative thanks to Watcher. Use Form of Dread when you want to keep something frightened; push it away with Eldritch Blast making it unable to get to the party. Use Command to make something flee from the Rogue for a quick backstab. Most of the Paladin spell slots are unused before Sorc comes into play, so free to upcast Armor of Agathys, Aid, etc. Once you do get Sorcerer, Shield and Absorb Elements also come online and are worth the low level spell slots, naturally. The result, alongside heavy armour, a shield, and Defence fighting style, is something that can be *very* tanky when needed, while *always* protecting the backline with the Aura, and throwing out damage without too much worry about reaching the enemy or taking damage needlessly in return. Teams well with a Druid or Wizard for pushing enemies into crowd control or damage areas (cough*Spiked Growth*cough). Outside of comboing damage (which can be very high), the direct damage is not the highest, but then, thats not why you play a Paladin anyhow (in that case, you would play a more damage specialist build, like the Double Phantom or a Devil Sight CBE SS Fighter): nystulsmagicwebsite.wordpress.com/2022/04/04/paladins-as-intended-dont-work/ The one thing that needs solving is the ASI/Feat issue - you only get three from the classes (Pal 4, Sorc 4, Sorc 8). You wont even get your second one until 13. The optimal case, in my opinion, is go Custom Lineage taking +2 Cha and Fey Touch [+1 Cha; Gift of Alacrity] for an 18 Cha start. At your Pal 4 take +2 Cha, and bingo you are maxed out on Charisma. You don't really need any other feats; don't need PAM, don't need GWM, don't need Warcaster (Staff and Shield works fine, drop Staff for Somatic-only), don't need Resilient [Con] (you are not likely to take damage often, due to high AC, and you don't have a pressing need to keep Concentration up anyway - unlike say a Wizard). At later levels, sure, grab Lucky, or Alert (already got Watchers + GoA for Initiative, but more never hurts), or even *then* boost Con Saves since the Sorcerer spells *are* worth protecting Concentration. You could, instead, go to Pal 8 - grabbing it before Sorc levels. However, I don't see the value in putting off the Level 3 Sorc spells for it. Potentially, you could grab it after Sorc 5 or 6 - the level 4 spells just aren't that good, so putting them off to later (or at all) is pretty fine. The Level 5 spells can be quite powerful, but not as game changing as getting the Level 3 ones online. The one Level 6 spell can easily be lost. The extra feat (and slightly earlier than the third one otherwise) *might* be worth this. A last note, Custom Lineage can go Small - you don't care about Heavy weapons anyway, and with Find Steed...
Love this subclass despite some of its lesser abilties. The food thing definitely comes up a lot at our table so it would definitely be a little better than a ribbon. My back up character for CoS is a warlock w a death knight as a patron. The death knight found him (the character was once a soldier in the Knights service before he had turned) in kind of a cryostasis and freed him and decided not to kill him if he made a pact with him instead. So the warlock is not evil, but the patron is
I found it weird that the no breathing thing wasn't a big factor to Treeantmonk. But I guess every table really is different. Like, I've abused that so much. It's crazy. Underwater stealth etc
I agree man, would love to see this! Trying to get a good build of this that takes advantage of the 6th level feature so hopefully Treantmonk sees your comment!
@@Porphyrogenitus1 Yeah I see where you're coming from. Flavour-wise I love the idea of the Warlock. Mechanically it does have some sweet features, but overall it's so underwhelming and I feel like it doesn't know what it's trying to be. It might defeat the purpose but I'd have even liked to see it as a full-caster.
My broadband was down over the weekend so I watched your video and then saw treantmonk's dhampir video. And then as soon as I heard him mention paladins I thought of your video.
Spirit Projection spellcasting is less of a problem if you pack your spell list with spells meant to work with it: Conjuration and Necromancy spells that don't require concentration.
I'm wanting to roll this subclass, but also wanting to Multiclass into Echo Knight, I like the idea of being a sinister being of horror, that slips around in the shadows, but also can take some hits.
Been trying to brew up a build for this subclass that's a bit different. A strength-based, great-axe wielding, Fallen Aasimar seems fun and flavourful on paper. Buffing up in round 1 with Necrotic Shroud and Form of Dread, chance terrify everything around you, and then unleashing a 2d12+STR+6 attack every round at level 6 also seems tasty. Combined with Darkness/Devil Sight/GWM shenanigans and it can get kinda crazy. Can even dip into Barbarian a bit later for that sweet synergy with Reckless Attack and Rage since you're using strength. Then you don't even need the Darkness/Devil Sight combo.
I think that an undead Warlock pact of the blade and the fear inducing effect of the dread form would be a great multiclass option for a conquest Paladin. Now if only there was a way to negate fear immunity
The Tasha variant ASI rules would allow for a thematically excellent Githyanki undead warlock of Vlaakith... Tome does present itself a good pact here, but I’d be tempted by Blade to swing a greatsword (eventually a Silver Sword?) around, scaring the shit out of mind flayers.
While the limited spells you can cast in spirit form is a pain, the lack of components on spells at least means no counterspell. Blindness/Deafness stands out as potentially workable.
I haven't try it yet, but the temp hit points and the ability to change attack damage to neurotic damage makes me think melee warlock that isnt hexblade. Perhaps take a level in paladin or fighter to get heavy armour, pact of the blade and a few invocation to go with it because why not.
Spirit Projection seems perfect for getting into and out of your grave or casket. I wonder if there are some spell glyph shenanigans that could work on your inert physical form and thus your Projection as well. Probably better for an NPC.
With tasha's rules. You can use a Kundarak dwarf. With tasha's ruling you can change the stats to suit a warlock build. They get "glyph of warding" added to the spell list. Warlocks recover spells on short rest, casting glyph of warding along with the concentration spell you would like to use in the 14th level feature at 5th spell level, means you only have to worry about the concentration in the feature.
Spirit Projection: "Your spirit resembles your mortal form in almost every way, replicating game statistics but not your possessions." Could this be interpreted to be Simulacrum-adjacent? If so, this is incredibly powerful.
The Spirit Projection would be really cool for espionage, recon, ect. combined with disguise self or teammates invisibility maybe. The no spell components could come in clutch in this situation, spells like eyebite, bestow curse (if cool DM), or dimension door/thunderstep like for a rescue or if you manage to trick a creature to come with you. (if only modify memory concentration was achievable) Awesomely, you could gather by a permeate teleportation circle AS A PARTY, then you alone project out to enemy base, (maybe need to setup another nearby circle before hand if it's too far) then pass through the walls disguised as a high rank BB, convince another high rank BB to pass through a teleportation circle (that you could make beforehand without verbal component). Or just have your whole party infiltrate the bathroom of the BBEG while they are sleeping. Maybe the best part any of this high risk espionage, is that you can always abort safely, that's HUGE.
Taking Shadow Touched feat [or Divine Soul Sorcerer (1+) for inflict wounds use with a pact slot looks pretty good on this subclass. Grave Touched allows you to essentially cast it at 6th level with your slots, -and Spirit Projection heals you for half the damage dealt. Throw on 2+ levels in Death Cleric [Touch of Death CD for 5+2xcleric level necrotic damage], or Necromancy Wizard [on a kill Grim Harvest restores hp = to 3xspell level for necromancy spells]. Could even choose Aasimar as race for that minute of extra transformation damage = to character level once on each of your turns (contingent upon setting up 2 actions of transformations)
I think the reason udnead husk needs an reaction is, so taht you can not use it, if the exhaustion would be the bigger problem compared to beind dropped to 0hp (like already having levels of exhaustion) Warlocks also tend to do not that much with their reaction, due to limited spell slots, so I actualyl think the needed reaction to use it is actually a good thing to control the usage of the feature.
Plus it'll prevent you from going "nova" unless you want you. Like once that death ward is down and the fight isn't over everybody gets a moment to move out the way.
I think the Necrotic explosions is a little better than you give credit. It's situational. Against minions or something or even very high AC/magic resistance/special defensive ability tanks, this could single handedly win you the battle, the difference between a TPK or resounding victory. The reaction is something you have full control over, so it would be reasonable to conserve it if you were expecting you might go down and that the explosion would be very strong. Also, after a deathly battle like this, it's unlikely you'll need to make lots of important skill checks before your next long rest which will probably be needed by the whole party and allowed to happen reasonably soon without dire consequence. /One/ point of exhaustion is total manageable. I do wish this was a little better though since it's 1d4 long rests and not 1 long rest. I like the different style of 1d4 long rest, but would just hope for a tiny bit more to be in line.
The combo of the Necrotic Husk along with Deathward means that you can drop to 0 and get back up twice... First with Death ward and then with NH. Also death ward duration is 8 hours no concentration, the warlock of my table does it all the time to herself and the other players and it has saved them many times. You cast it and then you short rest and you have 7 hours remaining. The reaction in the Necrotic Husk feature is there in order to prevent the combo with hellish rebuke I believe...
Okay, so I wanted to use the level 6 feature with a greataxe, and after about an hour of theory crafting I came up with this. A level 6 Half-Orc who crits on an attack with his greataxe could do 7d12 (49) + 8d8 (40) + Strength Modifier damage. I'm not sure if this is in-line with other min/maxed Nova/glass cannon style characters but either way that is a lot of damage. The icing on this painful cake (for me) is that if the creature is still alive after this Eldritch Smite knocks them prone if they're Huge or smaller, and a failed Wisdom save from your Form of Dread also leaves them frightened. A literal quivering wreck. 1d12 (weapon) + 1d12 (savage attacks) +1d12 (Orcish Fury) +1d12 (grave touched) +3d12 (critical hit - note: you don't double the d12 from savage attacks) + 4d8 (eldritch smite 3rd level spell slot) + 4d8 (critical hit) + Str Mod. Also in magical-christmas-land your Grave Domain cleric has used CD: Path to the Grave right before you crit, or your Divination Wizard friend rolled a d20 on his portent dice.
Great video as always! In my opinion the grave touched ability is poorly worded and I would have rather seen it as "while you are in your form of dread, this attack deals one additional damage die of necrotic damage" or something similar. The way it is originally written doesn’t make it clear that it is a continuation of the previous ability’s necrotic damage until the end (and even then saying “that target” instead of “the target” would make it clearer).
I’ve been thinking of using this class as a debuff support class. Adding a good debuff like frightened to every time you cast a chill touch you cast is nice to setup disadvantage on other cantrips. And it’s 14th level ability sounds like a really good concentration spell to me.
I feel that if you activate Necrotic Husk while Form of Dread is active, you should roll an additional die of damage on the detonation. This rewards combo-building during an an encounter, and makes the damage at least equal (or slightly higher) than a cantrip (1tth level Primal Savagery is 3d10 acid)
Once again @treantmonk Your analysis is spot on sir. I want to make a Renfield like character for Strahd in my next campaign. I want to take the class and see wince it goes. "Renfield : Yes! I need lives. I need lives for the master! Doctor Jack Seward : What? What master? Renfield : The master will come, and he has promised to make me immortal! Doctor Jack Seward : How? [Renfield suddenly attacks Seward and the guards rush in to subdue him] Renfield : The blood is the life! The blood is the life!"
it might be good for flavour purposes, but mechanically Warlocks have better options: they already have Shadow of Moil at the same level, which provides better benefits for combat (blocks Truesight; damages enemies that attack you). They also already get Invisibility, which is better out-of-combat (it lasts 1 hour as opposed to 1 minute) and can be upcast.
@@joelhughes4624 that also depends on how meta game-y your dm is. With greater invisibility you can move around the battlefield and enemies wont know where you are to attack you or where to throw the fireball etc.
WotC should've probably just enforced subclasses at 3rd level across the board. The game treats the first few levels as training wheels anyway, so a clear "to play ratcatchers, start at 1st; to play adventurers, start at 3rd"-design philosophy, with abilities doled out even more gradually, wouldn't be much of a stretch, and would curtail the weird dips into front-loaded classes that get multiclassing a bad name. I get that it's odd to play a warlock without a patron, but it could be justified - maybe you spend the first few levels studying ancient occult secrets and siphoning otherworldly magics, and then at 3rd level you come into contact with the actual source of that magic. Same with clerics (you were a regular adherent, but now you've been chosen by your deity) and sorcerers (at first you didn't know where this mysterious arcane power originated from, but now your bloodline has revealed itself).
Just imagine a tifling resistance slashing piercing bludging fire cold poison damages walks through a wall cast scatter forcefully splitting the poor fool's as he wonders through the walls to target them and pick them off one by one
I haven't looked into this subclass much, but I had a thought: for the Spirit Projection, isn't it possible to use it as a sort of instant get-out-of-jail-free* card, in a way? Dropping concentration can be done whenever(it specifically says 'no action required' if I recall correctly), so in theory, if you were using it in combat, you can sort of use it to bait out an enemy spell or a a frontliner, then when the spell is lined up or the enemy swings at you, you can drop concentration, and all of a sudden they don't have a target. Not the MOST powerful of abilities, especially for a 14th level one, and you'd have to spend an action either before the combat starts or in combat to set it up, but if it helps you avoid a devastating spell or a big attack, it sounds like it could be worth it. *I know it's not actually free, and you only get one per day, but if it's already set up, it is free...ish.
Deathward is a pretty nice spell on a warlock. You could cast it at the morning on yourself and someone else (preferably front-liner) and then take short rest to regain your spell slots. Also extra die from Geave Touched doesn't specify that necrotic damage must come from that feature. Doesn't that mean that if we could somehow made several attacks with necrotic damage it would proc several times per turn? Like with... I don't know... Eldritch Blast + Hex?
Yeah, I'd like to know that as well. It unclear to me and I'd like to know how it's meant to work. Very decent ability if its on each attack that does necrotic, a bit lackluster if only once per turn (but in line with many 3rd level features)
Spirit Projection would be excellent for reducing the risk of sneaky infiltrations, and the like. The body can stay in safety while the soul heads out to do shifty business. The soul doesn't start off with equipment, but nothing stops you from carrying an extra +1 quarterstaff on your body and having your soul pick it up after it's split. I'm curious about how items with attunement would work with spirit projection. Say your body is attuned to a ring of protection. Does your soul have the benefit when it split and doesnt have the ring? It says "any effects that apply to your body affect the other". so I think the soul should still have the bonuses of the ring of protection even when it's not wearing it.
I know she is a patron for Hexblades but I made a build as a Pact of the Blade Undead Warlock with the Raven Queen as a patron. This is thematic because the Raven Queen is all about controlling life. She hates undead but doesn’t mind extending life or resurrecting someone to fulfill her goals.
I dont understand why spirit projection takes concentration. Moni has a very similair feature in Empty Body that they can use multiple times per day that requires no concentration. I mean, its monk to be fair so throw them a bone but so the designers just design brand new mechanics without consulting old ones? I dont get it.
I played a guy who was the last/latest victim of a Lich who imprisoned him (and others) into his phylactery to be melted down as "food" for his soul. BUT before the 24 hour period was done & the process irreversible, a group of adventurers destroyed the Lich, then phylactery (in that order). As I my character was brought back, he was hearing voices in his head he didn't recognize & knowing how to do things he didn't even know was possible before his imprisonment. A small fraction of the Lich's essence--the only thing left of his "soul"--was trapped in his mind. The Lich wants to keep him alive, because if his "host" dies, so does he. BUT every time I fail/succeed a Wisdom saving through I move closer to a LE/LG mindset across a 20 point board. If I fail to many wisdom saving throws & go all the way into LE, the Lich takes me over & I (secretly) become Lawful Evil, scheming against the party while pretending to still be an ally. Only the DM & I know this.
I'm about to start a new campaign and have been theory crafting a Lightfoot Halfling Multiclassing 6 undead with 7 eldritch knight starting with 1 in artificer so I can use a musket on my bonus action, may not be the most optimal but you can bet it's going to be fun taking on the aspect of a vampire lacing my foes with EB and then shooting a necrotic musket on the bonus action.
You can cast haste 5 times on a fighter, it's just that only the newest/most potent casting is going to be in effect. But the spells are still there, so if one or two of those 5 mages loose concentration (and say, they were the ones to cast the haste last), the previous castings are still active and kick in. Same concept with death ward. Cast it 5 times on someone. 4 of those are not active (the newest casting is), but still there. This makes so when you get dropped to 0, the newest cast of Death Ward triggers and ends. And immediately, you are protected by the second layer of it.
I think it's questionable if it works as presented, as it requires applying the part of the stacking rule that says "while the durations overlap" to Death Ward, when that part of the stacking rule is not regarding spells with the same effect. Which, if not applied means only the most recent casting of death ward is used.
@@yosharian You have 2 subclasses called almost in the same way, with almost the same feel. Also, you can easily see how they introduced a standardized way of how the classes work (proficiency times for a feature and bonus action for pet's action - even if not in this class -). I've already seen this happen in the times of 3rd edition.
Thematically this a cool subclass. But I think Treantmonk over-rates it. The greatest power of this subclass is the fear effect. The Frightened condition has declining utility as you gain in levels. More and more creatures become immune to that condition. So, the utility of this feature depends on what creatures your DM has you fighting. Moreover, you're limited to proficiency times per long rest. That's 2 at low levels, 3 at mid levels and 4 by level 9. It's not a subclass killer but it is limiting. This proficiency limitation combined with declining utility as you advance in levels, means I would not rate this subclass highly.
It's certainly better than many other Warlock subs though. Decent effect at level 1, extra damage at level 6, extra toughness at level 10, and a cool, if not cirxumstancial effect at level 14. The spell list is bad, the all of the subclass abilities are really good for the level you get them at.
The synergy only applies with Conquest Paladin, if they are frightened of you, the conquest paladin. Hexblade is so much better for Paladin, that this would be a step down.
This is definitely more for ranged attackers. I'd still say this is a fantastic 1 or 2 level dip for the conquest paladin. Let's you inflicts fear without wasting spell slots or your Channel Divinity.
Darn it. I JUST made a conquest paladin last week. I would've made a 1 level dip and it would be AMAZING with my Aura of Conquest and Crusher. Time to ask/beg my dm for an encounter with a powerful undead entity...
So what I'm hearing is Pact of the Blade using a greataxe or reach weapon. And at 14th level you become the strangest single class Barbarian dip. Honestly, Polearm Master is such a good feat. But hard to manage the defensive problem since no Charisma to weapons. So a very MAD build that probably wants a defensive feat.
Pretty sure the Spirit Form is not a concentration effect. It tells you to use the concentration mechanic if you take damage, but it does not tell us that you must maintain concentration to use it. This allows you to cast and maintain a concentration Spell while in Spirit Form.
I wonder how well a dip in this works w/ Conq Pal. First, this subclass seems not to be entirely AL-legal, which is a problem for some of us (they may allow you to play a mini campaign in it - but what do you do if your class can't transfer out to masters or historic? I guess you're forced to rebuild, which would suck). If I'm a Pal and I'm one-dipping a warlock type, hexblade is hard to resist for the obvious reasons. But if I'm making a pal who uses a 2-hander and I'm not worried about being MAD, this could be nice. It doesn't cost a bonus action: all I have to do is hit the target; it's like a free-use fear spell on it. If it fails, the extra damage is nice, and it will be very hard for it to flee or attack my allies (if it can misty step or something, maybe). But is this better than Hexblade or something else? I don't think so. A one-lvl dip in Hexblade gives us Shield, which is insanely good. Hexblade's curse is concentration-free and increases our crits a lot (but only usable on one target per short rest). We, of course, can Smite on crits - making crits incredibly good. With that said, half a Pal level damage per turn caused by the fear aura (conq lvl 7) is okay. But it's not going to land every turn: they will save some, especially if my cha is only 14. Well, if "I'm bloody tired of Hexblade" or "I need this to roleplay"
It's a cool pact. The real question is why only two subclasses, like seriously you couldn't come up with a spooky horror fighter archetype etc? Seems like a pretty good DM book but a lackluster PC book unless you really want to be Alucard or something.
To be fair, two subclasses is pretty standard for a setting focused book. Ravnica had 2, Theros had 2, Wildmount had 3, and Eberron didn't have any (in favor of having a new base class instead). The only setting book to have a lot of subclasses was Swordcoast with 10, but a lot of them were not very good. Then for new races (not counting subrace) Ravnica introduced 4, Eberron 4, and Theros 2. Wildmount only had subraces and variants, but the total of new race options it brought was 4. So 3 new race options in Ravenloft falls in line with that as well. Guilds and Dragonmarks helped to prop up Ravnica and Eberron with setting specific options that matter to players, but I don't expect them to be able to do that with every setting.
Random Thoughts watching old videos: You rated frost fingers as one of your worst spells. Have you considered frost fingers + transmute rock, or similar combinations. Drop them into liquid then freeze the liquid?
Loving both the flavour and abilities of this subclass i made a melee build (ignoring Eldritch Blast on purpose): Start 1 level Fighter for Con Save proficiency, medium armour, Shield and +1 AC (Or Close Combat Shooter if your DM is generous). Rest goes into Warlock unless you want Action Surge at some point. Use a staff and get booming blade and/or green flame blade. Later get Pact of the Tome and take Shillelagh. As a variant human take Warcaster for advantage + booming blade attack of opportunity. Also that way you can cast with shield and staff. Then take Fey Touched. But what about 18 Cha you say? Take Bless for your spell. You now can use misty step to close gaps (essential as melee) and cast bless for high AC enemies. You may lose a round but you will easily hold concentration for the entire encounter, get +2,5 to hit, to facing throws AND share that goodness with your party. Only once per day but still. Your save DC is mostly irrelevant anyways. Taking Fiendish Vigor you will always have a high HP pool at low to mid levels. Armour of Agathys can be used but its only really good on higher levels since you already have multiple sources of temp hp. Take Cloak of Flies for that sweet intimidation and aura damage. You don't want enemies to ignore you. Later you can take Vampiric Touch; with proficiency and advantage concentration checks will be easy. Taking Death Ward can protect you or a party member every short rest. Take Tomb of Levistus because you want to tank the entire world. In the end you have a durable and intimidating drain tank with great debuffs and potentially two deaths defied (which you can often recover from with Vampiric Touch, Armour of Agathys, Tomb of Levistus, Second Wind or Fiendish Vigor). Thoughts? There are certainly stronger builds but i really love the flavour of this one.
@@elliotbryant3459 You can, although on higher levels that becomes a serious investment (especially once you can target more people than are in your party). But i can definitely imagine situations where it would be worth the spell slot!
Doesn't the necrotic damage increase from the 6th level feature also work with the hex spell? I may be reading it wrongly, but if it does, that's pretty strong. Even without it it's still a rather powerful feature.
Sooo.. Use Form of Dread, walk up and attack, frighten, warcaster booming blade as they move away.. instantly proc the extra damage... repeat literally every turn??
This seems like a fun subclass, especially for a dip. And immunity is powerful, even if it's not to a common damage type. I'd also say that death ward is a great spell for warlocks, as it lasts so long, you can easily short rest and still have it up, so that's pretty good. I'd agree exhaustion is bad, but at least with this it is something you'd use when you really needed it. Hopefully you don't need to, but when you need it, you'll be happy to take the exhaustion. Still, it's not as crazy good as hexblade is, but then, that's for the best. It's not amazing, but it is solid, and fun, and different in a lot of ways, I rather like it.
Undying patron is so bad and this one is so good, yet both with matching flavor, that I can't see why any DM should ever allow a player to choose Undying anymore.
In your spirit form, can you cast a concentration spell, by which you lose concentration on your spirit form and immediately disappear out of the area of effect of whatever you cast..?
The subclass is ok but I would still probably choose hexblade over undead because of how little you’re really getting out of dread. It makes me wonder why they nerfed the level 6 ability bc an extra damage die per turn will absolutely be outpaced by hbc and you can use it more often than form of dread
An additional 1d10 on *each* Eldritch Blast is too much. There's a reason why Hex is considered a great spell, and it adds only 1d6 and uses Concentration. Plus, while technically Form Of The Dead may have fewer uses than Hexblade Curse (even that is heavily dependent on the campaign and DM), it doesn't end as the target dies. A huge factor in most combats.
@@antongrigoryev6381 I agree it’s a lot of dice but idk if I would say it’s “too much”. By level 5, fighters with gwm are doing more damage. Not to mention hexblades can get a very similar effect with pact of the blade and add pb to each attack which will far outpace an extra die the longer the game goes on. By level 14 undead is in the dust bc hexblade has potentially 3 attacks, is adding 2xCHA, gwm, hbc, has a higher crit chance, and can switch targets. An extra d10 per beam isn’t coming close to that
@@mr.chimichanga6947 1. GWM is an extra feat you need to take. Plus, it is kinda overpowered compared to other feats. I don't think that "Fighter with GWM can do more" is a valid argument. And even if it is, remember that warlock is still a pseudo-fullcaster with a ton of utility. Edit: And no, 2d10+Cha is more than Fighter with GWM can do even if you're not using Hex. 2. 1d10 is 5,5 damage on average. It's much more than Hexblade Curse until at least lvl 13. *And*, it gets doubled on crits, unlike HBC. Plus, as I mentioned, before lvl 14 Form of the Dead would last for much longer.
@@antongrigoryev6381 sure it’s a feat you need to take but what other feats does a warlock realistically “need” to take? Also you’re saying that 2d10+CHA is more than a fighter’s 2d6+10+STR? Sure the damage for the ability itself is lower but in the context of the full subclass, hexblade has far more potential. With UA undead you were looking at 4d10+2(CHA) at lvl 5 if both beams hit. At lvl 5 a hexblade is doing 2d6+10+CHA+pb per hit and has a higher chance to crit. Eventually hbc will be better than your average die roll and yeah at the same time you could use dread more often but much of what you’re fighting is probably immune to frightened and a single d10 won’t be very impactful. Currently undead doesn’t come close
@@mr.chimichanga6947 You're forgetting lower hit chance for GWM. It's a huge deal, assuming an average hit chance of 60% it almost halves the total damage dealt. It's still much more than usual hit, but is much less than just 2d10 on hit. The numbers you're looking for are (attack stat assumed +4) (2d10+Cha)*0.6*2 = 18 for undead warlock and (2d6+10+Str)*0.35*2 = 14.7 for a fighter. Hexblade may be closer, but remember you need to go into melee for this. *And*, you're locked into Pact of The Blade while with UA Undead you could get these numbers with any Pact. For a new Undead it would be: (1d10+Cha)*0.6*2 + 1d10*(1 - 0.16(Chance for two misses)) = 16.02 Which is still a huge deal. Saying "Single d10 is not impactful" is not knowing D&D balance. As for "what warlocks need to take" instead of GWM - Charisma they need to take. And Con if you want into melee. Because if you didn't take Cha on lvl 4 your damage is gonna be even lower, and not everyone is variant human. As for fear - I said it for about Conquest Paladin and I'll say it again - if a DM regularly gives encounters where the character's *core feature* is useless, they are doing a poor job. It can come up from time to time, but not to the extent where the feature becomes useless. The only exception is if the campaign is heavily themed around specific creature type which usually has such immunities (undead in this case) and the player was warned about it but choose the subclass anyways.
I have a character idea floating around for this and Reborn race. Reborn(Githyanki) Undead Bladelock with heavily armored(if your dm lets you take a feat at lvl1)
@@TreantmonksTemple yeah, but buffing initiative once or twice is already fine by me tbh I wonder if it’s worth spending it to counter spells with a lvl3 slot (playing an abjurer now so this sort of feature seems like a good way to keep ahead pf other casters in my slots)
You know what I hate!? That the Relentless Slasher get expertise in athlethics while the relentless Juggernaut doesn't. It was as if the skills and saving throws of these two creatures were swapped. I love the relentless juggernaut it is cool but the art of it isn't the best as that crow mask is lame as fuck. What is it about raven/crows that are strength based??
So i saw on one of your past videos u said for ranged characters (such as rangers) a hand crossbow is more optimal than a longbow... why is that, can someone explain?
@@jacobsweet9270 You can combine them, so eventually the crossbow expert is doing an additional 1d6+ability score+10 attack on their turn. Being that a Longbow does 1 more point of damage on average per hit, you would need somewhere above 15 attacks per round before the Longbow's d8 made up that difference. Now if you have something really amazing to do with your bonus action, then Longbow might still be the way to go, but if we're talking about just attacks, the hand crossbow expert is going to come out ahead. At low levels (before extra attack), the crossbow expert will still do more damage than a sharp shooter when you punch the numbers, because the +10 damage involves the -5 to hit, and the bonus action attack from crossbow expert does not.
You were more generous than I. The low number of uses of the Form of Dread at lower levels mean that most of the levels we really play, you're going to feel like, you have no subclass at all. No matter how good it is in theory, if it's not available it sucks. Compared to the Fiend, it's meh. If a PHB subclass looks better, I don't see the draw.
How many encounters do you generally have in an adventuring day? I can't honestly say I've had more than 4-5. There are tons of classes that don't get to use their subclass in every single fight. I can't say I agree that you'd feel like you have "No subclass at all" just because you run out of a resource after 3 minute long combats.
@@JarredBournigal 4 or 5 is about right. The entirety of what you get at level 1 is that Dread Form. Thus, it is an objectively true statement to say that when the form is not available, you're playing without a subclass. Stating that other classes may face a similar situation at time has nothing to do with anything. Patrons like Hexblade and Fiend get features which you can benefit from all of the time. That was the comparison, and it is true. If this situation doesn't bother you, fine. I hope you enjoy it. The fact that you like it has nothing to my statement. As an aside, i would agree that it is a strong subclass AFTER 2nd tier. You'll have Dread Form available for most fights, and the damage boost will feel good.
@@ChristnThms you must be playing in a high combat campaign. Personally I prefer traps and puzzles. I try to avoid combat and needing to go into turns and dice rolls as much as I can when running a D&D campaign. So there are actually times when I wouldn't have even one combat between two long rests; of course skill rolls are a different story. lol Four to five combats seems more average but that still means you can use this for most combats.
@@johnchance7836 avoiding combat may be a perfectly valid playstyle, but has no bearing on this discussion since the feature in question is specifically a combat feature. It is a feature which you can use twice to start, thrice at level 5, and eventually four times at level 9. Considering that most games end by or before level 10, that means that the majority of time you'll have the Dread Form available for half or less of your combats. Since the Dread Form is the ONLY feature the Undead Patron grants at level 1, that means that all combats played without access to the Dread Form are literally played as if you had no subclass. That is the statement you seem to be objecting to. But you don't actually address it head on. You keep coming at it sideways, pretending that an irrelevant fact changes something. It doesn't. My original statement of fact stands. As I said before, if you value that feature enough to feel that this trade off is worth it, great. I don't agree, but then I don't have to live with your decision. If you make the call and then enjoy it, that's exactly the way it's supposed to work. In fact, I genuinely hope that you DO enjoy whatever you choose to play. There is no gain in wishing people ill will. I simply don't think that the feature is valuable enough (it IS valuable) for this trade off.
@@ChristnThms I think you missed the point. How often you need to be able to use this ability for it to be useful in every combat depends on how much combat you are doing. That's situational. Most people who have replied say it's fine because you should expect at most 4-5 combats. I think even that is a lot. Treantmonk wasn't generous. In many, if not most, campaigns you'll be able to use this most of the time. In mine it would be all the time. In yours . . . well higher than average combat campaigns also exist. But like my campaign they are outliers. You can't judge the subclass based on either very rare combat or constant battles. For most campaigns the amount of uses is going to be fine.
Hmm, Form of dread doesn't specify what happens you land multiple on hit attacks against many creatures at the same time. I could say that I landed a attack against a creature number one and another attack versus a creature two found of yonder.
my undead warlock wanted to bring his dead wife and daughter back to life. instead, he was given power over death. it wasnt the same. essentially he was tricked into a deal he never wanted to make with terms he never agreed to, with a patron who doesnt even remember the deal.
Honestly, I don't like this subclass. The theme is great, but I don't get how these partial transformations fit there. It's not something undead are famous for. For a warlock making a feature "oh guess they'll look like their patron for a while" is quite lazy I think. Plus I generally don't like such transformation features as core subclass features. These fit much better as a capstone or at least a post-10th lvl feature. They are usually too flashy for low-level characters and feel like developers are running out of ideas for well-balanced passives.
I think the player should flavour the transformation as getting more and more creepy as warlock levels increase. Getting a hoarse voice and half your face looking 30 years older at lvl 1 or something. Just something that could look like an illusion, and then add more and more for each level.
> You wouldn't hit a bat with glasses on, would you? La da da de da de da dum abracadabra La dum da de da de da dum hocus-pocus > I'm a vampire! Well I'm an umpire! *(DM)
I mean if you can find a DM willing to let you dip into two different subclasses by making your Warlock get roped into two contracts simultaneously, which would TECHNICALLY be possible if both Patrons only had limited knowledge and their terms were loose enough...
@@Brutalyte616 oh lich I offer you 100 years of my life force for a small sliver of your power bam first level no long term comments just take 100 years off your elf long lifespan
@@THEdeadlynightshade1646 That's like a human offering ten years of their life. And the Lich probably wouldn't take the deal anyways and just swallow your soul.
@@Brutalyte616 that's how you role play it I see a lich as someone who has lived for thousands of years and is bored someone being so arrogant and cheap might just make him laugh and go you know what fine
@@THEdeadlynightshade1646 The Warlock's pact with their Patron is generally more binding and weighted in the Patron's favor; in exchange for power, you owe the Patron something they want. The Lich probably couldn't collect 100 years of someone's lifespan or do anything with it, so he'd probably go 'Oh, 100 years of your life? Deal.' Hands are shaken, power is exchanged, and then you realize that the bastard twisted the wording ever so slightly, so now you have to dedicate 100 years of your life to him at his discretion; instead of sucking away your lifeforce, he's just made you an indentured servant, and you can't refuse him whenever he calls you up to do something for him because that would break the pact and subject you to the tender mercies of your Patron, or whatever force in the universe deals with those who break pacts. And you, as the player, have no fucking control over any of this, because the GM is the one taking the role of your Patron, which means he's probably going to be a dick so he can figure out a way to work your pact into the narrative they've come up with.
First thought that came to mind with the "Spirit Projection" feature is that the warlock stays inside a bag of holding (since they don't need to breathe anymore by this point). They get a signal from the party, pop out as a spirit, and wreak havoc that way. A high con save would be good for concentration, but worst case you just pop out of the bag yourself if you lose concentration. Just a fun concept to have a pocket warlock lol
Haha! That's more Genie than the Genie Warlock
Wasn't that a character from Vampire Hunter D? The guy with the scarf?
... well... I love this idea... Might have to try that
Level 20 Wizard: "I ask pocket-warlock!"
Pocket-Warlock: "I cast pocket sand!"
That first level dip is disgustingly good on pretty much every ranged attacking character in the game. Even better for charisma casters.
Mercy monk with a 1 lvl dip in undead warlock seems a lot of fun. Poison and frighten everyone while you punch them.
I saw Spirit Projection more as a "physically go anywhere you want" ability with ways and means of harassing anyone between you and your destination (vault, cells where your friends are being kept, bedchamber of the king you're going to assassinate, etc) presuming you even want to show yourself instead of just ghosting through walls and floors. Sure, teleportation spells are available to non-warlocks at that level, but you could also choose not to manifest if it turns out the castle/dungeon is full of enemies. Never thought of it as an attack platform.
Oh, my evil Lich-Knight Paladin concept is coming together!
If you plan on using Fey Wanderer Ranger multiclassing into this subclass, your patron could easily be a fey from the Unseelie Court with a specialty for necromantic forces.
Or Hag bargaining shennagins with a Feylost Child.
Worth considering that you can still cast a concentration based necromancy or conjuration spell from the ghost form, with the only consequence being that it'll then end the ghost form. That could still be okay, even tactically useful if you want to cast a spell while simultaneously teleporting your body to the ghost's space, or maybe to fall back to your body while leaving behind some summoned creature like from Summon Shadowspawn. It's still not ideal, but dropping the effect to cast a spell isn't the worst thing. (Note that I don't think that tactic would work RAW with Summon Undead or Summon Shadowspawn because of their "pokeball" material component. As a DM I'd still allow it if they had the component on their person, but to use the teleport fallback idea in a vanilla game, you'd have to use something like Hunger of Hadar or Danse Macabre instead of a Tasha's summon.)
If you go Pact of the Chain, then you can give a undead Imp or Sprite (for flavor) a Ring of Spell Storing and cast Summon Shadowspawn into it with other useful spells.
Also there's an invocation which gives u advantage on concentration saves, which helps a lot.
Remember that while projecting you don't have your spell focus (equipment). So you can only cast spells with material components if they're Conjuration or Necromancy (and don't have a gold cost). It's not just concentration that limits your casting.
I think that feature is really about the phasing, to be honest...
The first thing that springs to mind for me is a multiclass with Oath of Conquest Paladin. Couple fear saves every round with Aura of Conquest and you get an amazingly efficient lockdown mechanism.
How Would you manage the ABility scores, though? Cause im planning on making 1 lv dip into a undead warlock in my conquest paladin, but the DC isnt that great and since its a STR based class I wont be able to invest that much in CHA for the DC.
@@lucaspereira551 Typically you will want at least a 16 CHA for the +3 to all saves. But considering you also need to have a good DC to frighten, I personally go for a 20 or 18. Dex is usually what suffers along with Int. Wisdom can stay a little low, like a 10 or a 12 since you are proficient in it and you have a bonus to it anyway. When i play them i usually go with a point buy of
Str 14
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 15
I normally nab metallic dragonborn nowadays because dragon fear feat allows me to replace one attack to fear a group and then i can attack once to cause another fear. It is a half feat that gives a point in con str or cha. Do keep in mind to get a build that makes you comfy as early as possible since lvl 10 or so is when a campaign ends
If you are determined to plan it out all the way, start paladin for heavy armor, then nab undead and then the rest paladin.
Metallic Dragonborn +2 Cha +1 Str
Str 15/16
Dex 8
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 17
Dragon Fear +1 Cha then Polearm Master. You can go with a 16 str til about lvl 11 but the frighten should make it easier to smash foes. Next to asi u get are for str. Last asi is to cha. This build focuses you as the controller and destroyer on a battlefield of those around you. I find sentinel is redundant when i can control so many. Plus a longer reach means i can tag chose trying to stay away from my aura.
@@lucaspereira551 If you're using Point Buy, just go:
STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
15 8 15 8 8 15
Pick whatever race you want, and put +1 into STR, +1 into CON, and +1 into CHA. That's pretty standard for Paladin.
Very excited to have a Conquest Paladin X/Undead Warlock 1 character tearing up the battlefield
A decent subclass for warlocks, an amazing subclass for warlock dips. I cannot wait to try this on a Conquest paladin. Conqueror 18, Deadlock 2; Conqueror 15, Deadlock 5; Conqueror 8, Deadlock 2, Sorcerer 10 - maybe divine for spirit guardians, maybe clocksoul for restore balance, maybe shadow for hound of ill omen. Maybe something that mixes in eloquence bard, play it as creepy compelling voice of the grave. Lots of things to try. Very exciting.
Or even multiclass Conqueror and Deadlock with Fey Wanderer Ranger
@@JonathanMandrake That multiclass would be a bit MAD
Watcher Pal 7 (or 8) / Undead Lock 2 / Divine Sorc 11 (or 10) also works very nicely. I like to call this the Heavenly Dread Watcher.
Focus on Agonising Repelling Blast, keep up Concentration (usually Bless, sometimes something else, later Spirit Guardians is good), stay near the casters to protect them with the Aura, and everyone starts with a big boost to Initiative thanks to Watcher. Use Form of Dread when you want to keep something frightened; push it away with Eldritch Blast making it unable to get to the party. Use Command to make something flee from the Rogue for a quick backstab. Most of the Paladin spell slots are unused before Sorc comes into play, so free to upcast Armor of Agathys, Aid, etc. Once you do get Sorcerer, Shield and Absorb Elements also come online and are worth the low level spell slots, naturally.
The result, alongside heavy armour, a shield, and Defence fighting style, is something that can be *very* tanky when needed, while *always* protecting the backline with the Aura, and throwing out damage without too much worry about reaching the enemy or taking damage needlessly in return. Teams well with a Druid or Wizard for pushing enemies into crowd control or damage areas (cough*Spiked Growth*cough). Outside of comboing damage (which can be very high), the direct damage is not the highest, but then, thats not why you play a Paladin anyhow (in that case, you would play a more damage specialist build, like the Double Phantom or a Devil Sight CBE SS Fighter): nystulsmagicwebsite.wordpress.com/2022/04/04/paladins-as-intended-dont-work/
The one thing that needs solving is the ASI/Feat issue - you only get three from the classes (Pal 4, Sorc 4, Sorc 8). You wont even get your second one until 13. The optimal case, in my opinion, is go Custom Lineage taking +2 Cha and Fey Touch [+1 Cha; Gift of Alacrity] for an 18 Cha start. At your Pal 4 take +2 Cha, and bingo you are maxed out on Charisma. You don't really need any other feats; don't need PAM, don't need GWM, don't need Warcaster (Staff and Shield works fine, drop Staff for Somatic-only), don't need Resilient [Con] (you are not likely to take damage often, due to high AC, and you don't have a pressing need to keep Concentration up anyway - unlike say a Wizard). At later levels, sure, grab Lucky, or Alert (already got Watchers + GoA for Initiative, but more never hurts), or even *then* boost Con Saves since the Sorcerer spells *are* worth protecting Concentration.
You could, instead, go to Pal 8 - grabbing it before Sorc levels. However, I don't see the value in putting off the Level 3 Sorc spells for it. Potentially, you could grab it after Sorc 5 or 6 - the level 4 spells just aren't that good, so putting them off to later (or at all) is pretty fine. The Level 5 spells can be quite powerful, but not as game changing as getting the Level 3 ones online. The one Level 6 spell can easily be lost. The extra feat (and slightly earlier than the third one otherwise) *might* be worth this.
A last note, Custom Lineage can go Small - you don't care about Heavy weapons anyway, and with Find Steed...
Love this subclass despite some of its lesser abilties. The food thing definitely comes up a lot at our table so it would definitely be a little better than a ribbon.
My back up character for CoS is a warlock w a death knight as a patron. The death knight found him (the character was once a soldier in the Knights service before he had turned) in kind of a cryostasis and freed him and decided not to kill him if he made a pact with him instead. So the warlock is not evil, but the patron is
Stinking cloud my friend no breath means no save
I found it weird that the no breathing thing wasn't a big factor to Treeantmonk. But I guess every table really is different.
Like, I've abused that so much. It's crazy. Underwater stealth etc
I’d love to eventually see a build that shows a good use of a dip in this and some good synergies with it
no
I agree man, would love to see this! Trying to get a good build of this that takes advantage of the 6th level feature so hopefully Treantmonk sees your comment!
@@elijahkeytickler shut up mike
@@Porphyrogenitus1 Yeah I see where you're coming from. Flavour-wise I love the idea of the Warlock. Mechanically it does have some sweet features, but overall it's so underwhelming and I feel like it doesn't know what it's trying to be. It might defeat the purpose but I'd have even liked to see it as a full-caster.
Warlock is a full caster
Ha ha - just got done recording my UD Warlock build for tomorrow... was worried you might be doing this today! 😛
My broadband was down over the weekend so I watched your video and then saw treantmonk's dhampir video. And then as soon as I heard him mention paladins I thought of your video.
Spirit Projection spellcasting is less of a problem if you pack your spell list with spells meant to work with it: Conjuration and Necromancy spells that don't require concentration.
I'm wanting to roll this subclass, but also wanting to Multiclass into Echo Knight, I like the idea of being a sinister being of horror, that slips around in the shadows, but also can take some hits.
Been trying to brew up a build for this subclass that's a bit different.
A strength-based, great-axe wielding, Fallen Aasimar seems fun and flavourful on paper. Buffing up in round 1 with Necrotic Shroud and Form of Dread, chance terrify everything around you, and then unleashing a 2d12+STR+6 attack every round at level 6 also seems tasty.
Combined with Darkness/Devil Sight/GWM shenanigans and it can get kinda crazy.
Can even dip into Barbarian a bit later for that sweet synergy with Reckless Attack and Rage since you're using strength. Then you don't even need the Darkness/Devil Sight combo.
If you go barb you can go armor of shadows and cast mage armor on yourself at any time.
You can then use a shield and a cloak of protection.
I think that an undead Warlock pact of the blade and the fear inducing effect of the dread form would be a great multiclass option for a conquest Paladin.
Now if only there was a way to negate fear immunity
The Tasha variant ASI rules would allow for a thematically excellent Githyanki undead warlock of Vlaakith... Tome does present itself a good pact here, but I’d be tempted by Blade to swing a greatsword (eventually a Silver Sword?) around, scaring the shit out of mind flayers.
While the limited spells you can cast in spirit form is a pain, the lack of components on spells at least means no counterspell. Blindness/Deafness stands out as potentially workable.
2 levels of this with a conquest paladin seems pretty good
If you’re about to take a short rest and still have a spell slot, Death Ward is a fantastic way to get value from that slot.
I haven't try it yet, but the temp hit points and the ability to change attack damage to neurotic damage makes me think melee warlock that isnt hexblade. Perhaps take a level in paladin or fighter to get heavy armour, pact of the blade and a few invocation to go with it because why not.
Spirit Projection seems perfect for getting into and out of your grave or casket.
I wonder if there are some spell glyph shenanigans that could work on your inert physical form and thus your Projection as well.
Probably better for an NPC.
Ike the new screen shift transition you’re doing here :D
With tasha's rules. You can use a Kundarak dwarf. With tasha's ruling you can change the stats to suit a warlock build. They get "glyph of warding" added to the spell list. Warlocks recover spells on short rest, casting glyph of warding along with the concentration spell you would like to use in the 14th level feature at 5th spell level, means you only have to worry about the concentration in the feature.
Spirit Projection: "Your spirit resembles your mortal form in almost every way, replicating game statistics but not your possessions." Could this be interpreted to be Simulacrum-adjacent? If so, this is incredibly powerful.
That is a conquest paladin/undead patreon right there! 14:04
The Spirit Projection
would be really cool for espionage, recon, ect. combined with disguise self or teammates invisibility maybe. The no spell components could come in clutch in this situation, spells like eyebite, bestow curse (if cool DM), or dimension door/thunderstep like for a rescue or if you manage to trick a creature to come with you. (if only modify memory concentration was achievable) Awesomely, you could gather by a permeate teleportation circle AS A PARTY, then you alone project out to enemy base, (maybe need to setup another nearby circle before hand if it's too far) then pass through the walls disguised as a high rank BB, convince another high rank BB to pass through a teleportation circle (that you could make beforehand without verbal component). Or just have your whole party infiltrate the bathroom of the BBEG while they are sleeping. Maybe the best part any of this high risk espionage, is that you can always abort safely, that's HUGE.
Taking Shadow Touched feat [or Divine Soul Sorcerer (1+) for inflict wounds use with a pact slot looks pretty good on this subclass. Grave Touched allows you to essentially cast it at 6th level with your slots, -and Spirit Projection heals you for half the damage dealt. Throw on 2+ levels in Death Cleric [Touch of Death CD for 5+2xcleric level necrotic damage], or Necromancy Wizard [on a kill Grim Harvest restores hp = to 3xspell level for necromancy spells].
Could even choose Aasimar as race for that minute of extra transformation damage = to character level once on each of your turns (contingent upon setting up 2 actions of transformations)
I think the reason udnead husk needs an reaction is, so taht you can not use it, if the exhaustion would be the bigger problem compared to beind dropped to 0hp (like already having levels of exhaustion)
Warlocks also tend to do not that much with their reaction, due to limited spell slots, so I actualyl think the needed reaction to use it is actually a good thing to control the usage of the feature.
I'm surprised you completely glossed over the short rest Death Ward.
Yep, that was an oversight.
Rest Tricking Death Ward on short rests and standing them makes this subclass almost unkillable at higher levels! 👍🏻
Plus it'll prevent you from going "nova" unless you want you. Like once that death ward is down and the fight isn't over everybody gets a moment to move out the way.
I do love the potential of scaring the crap out of my party mates by starting to rot in the middle of combat.
I think the Necrotic explosions is a little better than you give credit. It's situational. Against minions or something or even very high AC/magic resistance/special defensive ability tanks, this could single handedly win you the battle, the difference between a TPK or resounding victory. The reaction is something you have full control over, so it would be reasonable to conserve it if you were expecting you might go down and that the explosion would be very strong. Also, after a deathly battle like this, it's unlikely you'll need to make lots of important skill checks before your next long rest which will probably be needed by the whole party and allowed to happen reasonably soon without dire consequence. /One/ point of exhaustion is total manageable. I do wish this was a little better though since it's 1d4 long rests and not 1 long rest. I like the different style of 1d4 long rest, but would just hope for a tiny bit more to be in line.
Run the new Stress mechanics with this and the fear mechanic is fun. Those -1s to saving throws/attack rolls for mobs is very very strong.
The combo of the Necrotic Husk along with Deathward means that you can drop to 0 and get back up twice... First with Death ward and then with NH. Also death ward duration is 8 hours no concentration, the warlock of my table does it all the time to herself and the other players and it has saved them many times. You cast it and then you short rest and you have 7 hours remaining. The reaction in the Necrotic Husk feature is there in order to prevent the combo with hellish rebuke I believe...
Okay, so I wanted to use the level 6 feature with a greataxe, and after about an hour of theory crafting I came up with this. A level 6 Half-Orc who crits on an attack with his greataxe could do 7d12 (49) + 8d8 (40) + Strength Modifier damage. I'm not sure if this is in-line with other min/maxed Nova/glass cannon style characters but either way that is a lot of damage. The icing on this painful cake (for me) is that if the creature is still alive after this Eldritch Smite knocks them prone if they're Huge or smaller, and a failed Wisdom save from your Form of Dread also leaves them frightened. A literal quivering wreck.
1d12 (weapon) + 1d12 (savage attacks) +1d12 (Orcish Fury) +1d12 (grave touched) +3d12 (critical hit - note: you don't double the d12 from savage attacks) + 4d8 (eldritch smite 3rd level spell slot) + 4d8 (critical hit) + Str Mod.
Also in magical-christmas-land your Grave Domain cleric has used CD: Path to the Grave right before you crit, or your Divination Wizard friend rolled a d20 on his portent dice.
Great video as always! In my opinion the grave touched ability is poorly worded and I would have rather seen it as "while you are in your form of dread, this attack deals one additional damage die of necrotic damage" or something similar. The way it is originally written doesn’t make it clear that it is a continuation of the previous ability’s necrotic damage until the end (and even then saying “that target” instead of “the target” would make it clearer).
I’ve been thinking of using this class as a debuff support class. Adding a good debuff like frightened to every time you cast a chill touch you cast is nice to setup disadvantage on other cantrips. And it’s 14th level ability sounds like a really good concentration spell to me.
I feel that if you activate Necrotic Husk while Form of Dread is active, you should roll an additional die of damage on the detonation. This rewards combo-building during an an encounter, and makes the damage at least equal (or slightly higher) than a cantrip (1tth level Primal Savagery is 3d10 acid)
Once again @treantmonk Your analysis is spot on sir. I want to make a Renfield like character for Strahd in my next campaign. I want to take the class and see wince it goes.
"Renfield : Yes! I need lives. I need lives for the master!
Doctor Jack Seward : What? What master?
Renfield : The master will come, and he has promised to make me immortal!
Doctor Jack Seward : How?
[Renfield suddenly attacks Seward and the guards rush in to subdue him]
Renfield : The blood is the life! The blood is the life!"
Greater invisibility is a nice add to the warlock list
it might be good for flavour purposes, but mechanically Warlocks have better options: they already have Shadow of Moil at the same level, which provides better benefits for combat (blocks Truesight; damages enemies that attack you). They also already get Invisibility, which is better out-of-combat (it lasts 1 hour as opposed to 1 minute) and can be upcast.
@@joelhughes4624 that also depends on how meta game-y your dm is. With greater invisibility you can move around the battlefield and enemies wont know where you are to attack you or where to throw the fireball etc.
Love your videos and the time you put into them mate, just thought I'd put it out there! Cheers!
Powercreep is real.
Also funny they still haven't learned to not make warlocks that are one level dips.
TBF you'd get the most from a 6 level dip.
WotC should've probably just enforced subclasses at 3rd level across the board. The game treats the first few levels as training wheels anyway, so a clear "to play ratcatchers, start at 1st; to play adventurers, start at 3rd"-design philosophy, with abilities doled out even more gradually, wouldn't be much of a stretch, and would curtail the weird dips into front-loaded classes that get multiclassing a bad name. I get that it's odd to play a warlock without a patron, but it could be justified - maybe you spend the first few levels studying ancient occult secrets and siphoning otherworldly magics, and then at 3rd level you come into contact with the actual source of that magic.
Same with clerics (you were a regular adherent, but now you've been chosen by your deity) and sorcerers (at first you didn't know where this mysterious arcane power originated from, but now your bloodline has revealed itself).
tbh, since the hexblade is already a thing, that door is already open. might as well get different options.
@@killcat1971 i don't think so; going for level 6 just for the extra 1d10 might not be worth in a build where you just need a dip
@@chopcooey If you use a battle axe it's d12 and you also get 3 cantrips, 3 invocations, 2x3rd spell slots/ short rest, but it's always a trade off.
Just imagine a tifling resistance slashing piercing bludging fire cold poison damages walks through a wall cast scatter forcefully splitting the poor fool's as he wonders through the walls to target them and pick them off one by one
I haven't looked into this subclass much, but I had a thought: for the Spirit Projection, isn't it possible to use it as a sort of instant get-out-of-jail-free* card, in a way? Dropping concentration can be done whenever(it specifically says 'no action required' if I recall correctly), so in theory, if you were using it in combat, you can sort of use it to bait out an enemy spell or a a frontliner, then when the spell is lined up or the enemy swings at you, you can drop concentration, and all of a sudden they don't have a target. Not the MOST powerful of abilities, especially for a 14th level one, and you'd have to spend an action either before the combat starts or in combat to set it up, but if it helps you avoid a devastating spell or a big attack, it sounds like it could be worth it.
*I know it's not actually free, and you only get one per day, but if it's already set up, it is free...ish.
Deathward is a pretty nice spell on a warlock. You could cast it at the morning on yourself and someone else (preferably front-liner) and then take short rest to regain your spell slots.
Also extra die from Geave Touched doesn't specify that necrotic damage must come from that feature. Doesn't that mean that if we could somehow made several attacks with necrotic damage it would proc several times per turn? Like with... I don't know... Eldritch Blast + Hex?
Yeah, I'd like to know that as well. It unclear to me and I'd like to know how it's meant to work.
Very decent ability if its on each attack that does necrotic, a bit lackluster if only once per turn (but in line with many 3rd level features)
Spirit Projection would be excellent for reducing the risk of sneaky infiltrations, and the like. The body can stay in safety while the soul heads out to do shifty business. The soul doesn't start off with equipment, but nothing stops you from carrying an extra +1 quarterstaff on your body and having your soul pick it up after it's split.
I'm curious about how items with attunement would work with spirit projection. Say your body is attuned to a ring of protection. Does your soul have the benefit when it split and doesnt have the ring? It says "any effects that apply to your body affect the other". so I think the soul should still have the bonuses of the ring of protection even when it's not wearing it.
I know she is a patron for Hexblades but I made a build as a Pact of the Blade Undead Warlock with the Raven Queen as a patron. This is thematic because the Raven Queen is all about controlling life. She hates undead but doesn’t mind extending life or resurrecting someone to fulfill her goals.
I'm so excited for this class, it's the perfect flavor for me.
I dont understand why spirit projection takes concentration. Moni has a very similair feature in Empty Body that they can use multiple times per day that requires no concentration. I mean, its monk to be fair so throw them a bone but so the designers just design brand new mechanics without consulting old ones? I dont get it.
I'm theory crafting an Undead Warlock/Moon Druid. I really have no idea how to gauge it, but it sounds like it's good in the early game
Circle of spores could be interesting with this too.
@@johnchance7836 could you be an Undead Spore Wolf?!? I wanna make one even more if I could lol
@@sethtaylor2911 I haven't even thought about that. Interesting idea though. lol
@@sethtaylor2911 Go with Dhampir as a race and you get and undead spore wolf that can walk up walls and across ceilings at full speed! 🐺 🍄
I played a guy who was the last/latest victim of a Lich who imprisoned him (and others) into his phylactery to be melted down as "food" for his soul. BUT before the 24 hour period was done & the process irreversible, a group of adventurers destroyed the Lich, then phylactery (in that order).
As I my character was brought back, he was hearing voices in his head he didn't recognize & knowing how to do things he didn't even know was possible before his imprisonment. A small fraction of the Lich's essence--the only thing left of his "soul"--was trapped in his mind. The Lich wants to keep him alive, because if his "host" dies, so does he. BUT every time I fail/succeed a Wisdom saving through I move closer to a LE/LG mindset across a 20 point board. If I fail to many wisdom saving throws & go all the way into LE, the Lich takes me over & I (secretly) become Lawful Evil, scheming against the party while pretending to still be an ally. Only the DM & I know this.
I'm about to start a new campaign and have been theory crafting a Lightfoot Halfling Multiclassing 6 undead with 7 eldritch knight starting with 1 in artificer so I can use a musket on my bonus action, may not be the most optimal but you can bet it's going to be fun taking on the aspect of a vampire lacing my foes with EB and then shooting a necrotic musket on the bonus action.
Question: how do you use the musket as a bonus action? Is that something g I've missed in artificer, or some other ability?
Did you see Pack Tactic's video on Death Ward stacking? What do you think about it from a rules standpoint?
I didn't see the video, but isn't there a rule that the same spells don't stack?
@@antongrigoryev6381 Yup. In the same way you can't have a party of 5 casters use haste on the fighter.
You can cast haste 5 times on a fighter, it's just that only the newest/most potent casting is going to be in effect. But the spells are still there, so if one or two of those 5 mages loose concentration (and say, they were the ones to cast the haste last), the previous castings are still active and kick in.
Same concept with death ward. Cast it 5 times on someone. 4 of those are not active (the newest casting is), but still there. This makes so when you get dropped to 0, the newest cast of Death Ward triggers and ends. And immediately, you are protected by the second layer of it.
I think it's questionable if it works as presented, as it requires applying the part of the stacking rule that says "while the durations overlap" to Death Ward, when that part of the stacking rule is not regarding spells with the same effect. Which, if not applied means only the most recent casting of death ward is used.
This class seal the deal about D&D 5.5E.
Now it's pretty clear what they'll do for the 50th year.
Explain?
@@yosharian You have 2 subclasses called almost in the same way, with almost the same feel.
Also, you can easily see how they introduced a standardized way of how the classes work (proficiency times for a feature and bonus action for pet's action - even if not in this class -).
I've already seen this happen in the times of 3rd edition.
@@WexMajor82 what's your point?
@@yosharian The point is that I can spot a pattern when similar situations already happened.
And I can tell you how it'll end.
@@WexMajor82 and how will it end?
Thematically this a cool subclass. But I think Treantmonk over-rates it. The greatest power of this subclass is the fear effect. The Frightened condition has declining utility as you gain in levels. More and more creatures become immune to that condition. So, the utility of this feature depends on what creatures your DM has you fighting. Moreover, you're limited to proficiency times per long rest. That's 2 at low levels, 3 at mid levels and 4 by level 9. It's not a subclass killer but it is limiting. This proficiency limitation combined with declining utility as you advance in levels, means I would not rate this subclass highly.
Agreed. I think a lot of classes could benefit from a 1 level dip here, but I'm not impressed with the rest of the class.
It's certainly better than many other Warlock subs though. Decent effect at level 1, extra damage at level 6, extra toughness at level 10, and a cool, if not cirxumstancial effect at level 14. The spell list is bad, the all of the subclass abilities are really good for the level you get them at.
The synergy only applies with Conquest Paladin, if they are frightened of you, the conquest paladin. Hexblade is so much better for Paladin, that this would be a step down.
A 3 level dip into Undead Warlock for a Conquest Paladin would be pretty nasty, 6 is better in some ways, but you've got to weight up what you lose.
This is definitely more for ranged attackers. I'd still say this is a fantastic 1 or 2 level dip for the conquest paladin. Let's you inflicts fear without wasting spell slots or your Channel Divinity.
Darn it. I JUST made a conquest paladin last week. I would've made a 1 level dip and it would be AMAZING with my Aura of Conquest and Crusher.
Time to ask/beg my dm for an encounter with a powerful undead entity...
So what I'm hearing is Pact of the Blade using a greataxe or reach weapon. And at 14th level you become the strangest single class Barbarian dip.
Honestly, Polearm Master is such a good feat. But hard to manage the defensive problem since no Charisma to weapons. So a very MAD build that probably wants a defensive feat.
alternatively, just shoot them with your eldritch blast on your own turn and don't go MAD
Pretty sure the Spirit Form is not a concentration effect. It tells you to use the concentration mechanic if you take damage, but it does not tell us that you must maintain concentration to use it. This allows you to cast and maintain a concentration Spell while in Spirit Form.
Great 1 level dip, since your number of uses continues to increase with your character level instead of warlock level!
I wonder how well a dip in this works w/ Conq Pal. First, this subclass seems not to be entirely AL-legal, which is a problem for some of us (they may allow you to play a mini campaign in it - but what do you do if your class can't transfer out to masters or historic? I guess you're forced to rebuild, which would suck). If I'm a Pal and I'm one-dipping a warlock type, hexblade is hard to resist for the obvious reasons. But if I'm making a pal who uses a 2-hander and I'm not worried about being MAD, this could be nice. It doesn't cost a bonus action: all I have to do is hit the target; it's like a free-use fear spell on it. If it fails, the extra damage is nice, and it will be very hard for it to flee or attack my allies (if it can misty step or something, maybe).
But is this better than Hexblade or something else? I don't think so. A one-lvl dip in Hexblade gives us Shield, which is insanely good. Hexblade's curse is concentration-free and increases our crits a lot (but only usable on one target per short rest). We, of course, can Smite on crits - making crits incredibly good. With that said, half a Pal level damage per turn caused by the fear aura (conq lvl 7) is okay. But it's not going to land every turn: they will save some, especially if my cha is only 14. Well, if "I'm bloody tired of Hexblade" or "I need this to roleplay"
It's a cool pact. The real question is why only two subclasses, like seriously you couldn't come up with a spooky horror fighter archetype etc? Seems like a pretty good DM book but a lackluster PC book unless you really want to be Alucard or something.
To be fair, two subclasses is pretty standard for a setting focused book. Ravnica had 2, Theros had 2, Wildmount had 3, and Eberron didn't have any (in favor of having a new base class instead). The only setting book to have a lot of subclasses was Swordcoast with 10, but a lot of them were not very good. Then for new races (not counting subrace) Ravnica introduced 4, Eberron 4, and Theros 2. Wildmount only had subraces and variants, but the total of new race options it brought was 4. So 3 new race options in Ravenloft falls in line with that as well. Guilds and Dragonmarks helped to prop up Ravnica and Eberron with setting specific options that matter to players, but I don't expect them to be able to do that with every setting.
Random Thoughts watching old videos: You rated frost fingers as one of your worst spells. Have you considered frost fingers + transmute rock, or similar combinations. Drop them into liquid then freeze the liquid?
Id just one dip this and do an Eldritch Knight with it so you can action surge hit 4 people and possibly frighten them all :)
Loving both the flavour and abilities of this subclass i made a melee build (ignoring Eldritch Blast on purpose):
Start 1 level Fighter for Con Save proficiency, medium armour, Shield and +1 AC (Or Close Combat Shooter if your DM is generous).
Rest goes into Warlock unless you want Action Surge at some point.
Use a staff and get booming blade and/or green flame blade. Later get Pact of the Tome and take Shillelagh.
As a variant human take Warcaster for advantage + booming blade attack of opportunity. Also that way you can cast with shield and staff.
Then take Fey Touched. But what about 18 Cha you say? Take Bless for your spell. You now can use misty step to close gaps (essential as melee) and cast bless for high AC enemies. You may lose a round but you will easily hold concentration for the entire encounter, get +2,5 to hit, to facing throws AND share that goodness with your party. Only once per day but still. Your save DC is mostly irrelevant anyways.
Taking Fiendish Vigor you will always have a high HP pool at low to mid levels. Armour of Agathys can be used but its only really good on higher levels since you already have multiple sources of temp hp.
Take Cloak of Flies for that sweet intimidation and aura damage. You don't want enemies to ignore you.
Later you can take Vampiric Touch; with proficiency and advantage concentration checks will be easy.
Taking Death Ward can protect you or a party member every short rest.
Take Tomb of Levistus because you want to tank the entire world.
In the end you have a durable and intimidating drain tank with great debuffs and potentially two deaths defied (which you can often recover from with Vampiric Touch, Armour of Agathys, Tomb of Levistus, Second Wind or Fiendish Vigor).
Thoughts? There are certainly stronger builds but i really love the flavour of this one.
With fey touched you can also cast bless with warlock slots if you want more uses.
@@elliotbryant3459 You can, although on higher levels that becomes a serious investment (especially once you can target more people than are in your party). But i can definitely imagine situations where it would be worth the spell slot!
Doesn't the necrotic damage increase from the 6th level feature also work with the hex spell? I may be reading it wrongly, but if it does, that's pretty strong. Even without it it's still a rather powerful feature.
I had this question. I think it may be a rules as written vs rules as intended issue.
1 fighter or 2 paladin into undead warlock. A true death knight.
I find combining both undead and undying as a single subclass with all the features of both, makes for an ok subclass.
Sooo..
Use Form of Dread, walk up and attack, frighten, warcaster booming blade as they move away.. instantly proc the extra damage... repeat literally every turn??
There are effects that require 'Concentration', but isn't the limit only 1 Concentration spell, rather than Concentration effect?
"as if you are concentrating on a spell" means you treat it as concentrating on a spell
This seems like a fun subclass, especially for a dip. And immunity is powerful, even if it's not to a common damage type. I'd also say that death ward is a great spell for warlocks, as it lasts so long, you can easily short rest and still have it up, so that's pretty good. I'd agree exhaustion is bad, but at least with this it is something you'd use when you really needed it. Hopefully you don't need to, but when you need it, you'll be happy to take the exhaustion. Still, it's not as crazy good as hexblade is, but then, that's for the best. It's not amazing, but it is solid, and fun, and different in a lot of ways, I rather like it.
Undying patron is so bad and this one is so good, yet both with matching flavor, that I can't see why any DM should ever allow a player to choose Undying anymore.
its still pretty fun and good in campaigns that are specifically themed around undead. I'd still use it over this in a curse of strahd game.
@@ihave2cows But why would it be better to choose the older undead-themed subclass over the newer one?
@@bigdream_dreambig because the class gives you bonuses that specifically interact with undead.
In your spirit form, can you cast a concentration spell, by which you lose concentration on your spirit form and immediately disappear out of the area of effect of whatever you cast..?
Are you not a fan of Bane and False life in general or are they just not a good match with the warlocks limited spell slots, or both?
So... does anyone have any idea how one can concentrate on spirit projection while they're unconscious...?
The subclass is ok but I would still probably choose hexblade over undead because of how little you’re really getting out of dread. It makes me wonder why they nerfed the level 6 ability bc an extra damage die per turn will absolutely be outpaced by hbc and you can use it more often than form of dread
An additional 1d10 on *each* Eldritch Blast is too much. There's a reason why Hex is considered a great spell, and it adds only 1d6 and uses Concentration.
Plus, while technically Form Of The Dead may have fewer uses than Hexblade Curse (even that is heavily dependent on the campaign and DM), it doesn't end as the target dies. A huge factor in most combats.
@@antongrigoryev6381 I agree it’s a lot of dice but idk if I would say it’s “too much”. By level 5, fighters with gwm are doing more damage. Not to mention hexblades can get a very similar effect with pact of the blade and add pb to each attack which will far outpace an extra die the longer the game goes on. By level 14 undead is in the dust bc hexblade has potentially 3 attacks, is adding 2xCHA, gwm, hbc, has a higher crit chance, and can switch targets. An extra d10 per beam isn’t coming close to that
@@mr.chimichanga6947 1. GWM is an extra feat you need to take. Plus, it is kinda overpowered compared to other feats. I don't think that "Fighter with GWM can do more" is a valid argument. And even if it is, remember that warlock is still a pseudo-fullcaster with a ton of utility.
Edit: And no, 2d10+Cha is more than Fighter with GWM can do even if you're not using Hex.
2. 1d10 is 5,5 damage on average. It's much more than Hexblade Curse until at least lvl 13. *And*, it gets doubled on crits, unlike HBC. Plus, as I mentioned, before lvl 14 Form of the Dead would last for much longer.
@@antongrigoryev6381 sure it’s a feat you need to take but what other feats does a warlock realistically “need” to take? Also you’re saying that 2d10+CHA is more than a fighter’s 2d6+10+STR? Sure the damage for the ability itself is lower but in the context of the full subclass, hexblade has far more potential.
With UA undead you were looking at 4d10+2(CHA) at lvl 5 if both beams hit. At lvl 5 a hexblade is doing 2d6+10+CHA+pb per hit and has a higher chance to crit.
Eventually hbc will be better than your average die roll and yeah at the same time you could use dread more often but much of what you’re fighting is probably immune to frightened and a single d10 won’t be very impactful. Currently undead doesn’t come close
@@mr.chimichanga6947 You're forgetting lower hit chance for GWM. It's a huge deal, assuming an average hit chance of 60% it almost halves the total damage dealt. It's still much more than usual hit, but is much less than just 2d10 on hit.
The numbers you're looking for are (attack stat assumed +4)
(2d10+Cha)*0.6*2 = 18 for undead warlock and
(2d6+10+Str)*0.35*2 = 14.7 for a fighter. Hexblade may be closer, but remember you need to go into melee for this. *And*, you're locked into Pact of The Blade while with UA Undead you could get these numbers with any Pact.
For a new Undead it would be:
(1d10+Cha)*0.6*2 + 1d10*(1 - 0.16(Chance for two misses)) = 16.02 Which is still a huge deal.
Saying "Single d10 is not impactful" is not knowing D&D balance.
As for "what warlocks need to take" instead of GWM - Charisma they need to take. And Con if you want into melee. Because if you didn't take Cha on lvl 4 your damage is gonna be even lower, and not everyone is variant human.
As for fear - I said it for about Conquest Paladin and I'll say it again - if a DM regularly gives encounters where the character's *core feature* is useless, they are doing a poor job. It can come up from time to time, but not to the extent where the feature becomes useless. The only exception is if the campaign is heavily themed around specific creature type which usually has such immunities (undead in this case) and the player was warned about it but choose the subclass anyways.
I have a character idea floating around for this and Reborn race.
Reborn(Githyanki) Undead Bladelock with heavily armored(if your dm lets you take a feat at lvl1)
Warlock "I'm level 3 now I can speak to the dead! Let me try it out. Hey corpse, how ya doing?"
Corpse "I'm dead dumb ass!"
Question: is the wisdom saving through they make against your spell save dc? Is someone could please clarify for me 🙏
I believe so
I love this! Could you do melee builds for monster slayer and blood hunter?
I did a melee build for Blood Hunter.
I hope you do an analysis on the Dhampir's bite
I'm losing my shit with all the casters I can make that benefit from the bonus to checks
The bonus to checks is still fairly limited, proficiency bonus per long rest times.
@@TreantmonksTemple yeah, but buffing initiative once or twice is already fine by me tbh
I wonder if it’s worth spending it to counter spells with a lvl3 slot (playing an abjurer now so this sort of feature seems like a good way to keep ahead pf other casters in my slots)
Can I change the damage type to necrotic even if I'm not in Form of Dread?
yes, you can! You do, however, only get to roll an additional die, if form of dread is active :)
You could also play a dhampir, And say “fuck it I’m my own patron!”
Dhampir that is an undead pact warlock the patron is the father of the player character
Ugh. I loathe "dips."
You know what I hate!? That the Relentless Slasher get expertise in athlethics while the relentless Juggernaut doesn't. It was as if the skills and saving throws of these two creatures were swapped. I love the relentless juggernaut it is cool but the art of it isn't the best as that crow mask is lame as fuck. What is it about raven/crows that are strength based??
It seems heavily influenced by 3rd edition's Pale Master
So i saw on one of your past videos u said for ranged characters (such as rangers) a hand crossbow is more optimal than a longbow... why is that, can someone explain?
It is because of the interaction with the Crossbow Expert feat as it gives you a bonus action attack with the weapon.
@@TreantmonksTemple does sharpshooter not average out to more dmg with 2 longbow attacks?
@@jacobsweet9270 You can combine them, so eventually the crossbow expert is doing an additional 1d6+ability score+10 attack on their turn. Being that a Longbow does 1 more point of damage on average per hit, you would need somewhere above 15 attacks per round before the Longbow's d8 made up that difference. Now if you have something really amazing to do with your bonus action, then Longbow might still be the way to go, but if we're talking about just attacks, the hand crossbow expert is going to come out ahead. At low levels (before extra attack), the crossbow expert will still do more damage than a sharp shooter when you punch the numbers, because the +10 damage involves the -5 to hit, and the bonus action attack from crossbow expert does not.
@@TreantmonksTemple Ahh I didn't take into account bonus action economy, that makes sense, thanks!
I am playing a swarmkeeper lvl 3 currently and didn't realize that gathered swarm isn't once per turn so crossbow is for sure the way to go!
You were more generous than I. The low number of uses of the Form of Dread at lower levels mean that most of the levels we really play, you're going to feel like, you have no subclass at all. No matter how good it is in theory, if it's not available it sucks.
Compared to the Fiend, it's meh. If a PHB subclass looks better, I don't see the draw.
How many encounters do you generally have in an adventuring day? I can't honestly say I've had more than 4-5. There are tons of classes that don't get to use their subclass in every single fight. I can't say I agree that you'd feel like you have "No subclass at all" just because you run out of a resource after 3 minute long combats.
@@JarredBournigal 4 or 5 is about right. The entirety of what you get at level 1 is that Dread Form. Thus, it is an objectively true statement to say that when the form is not available, you're playing without a subclass. Stating that other classes may face a similar situation at time has nothing to do with anything. Patrons like Hexblade and Fiend get features which you can benefit from all of the time. That was the comparison, and it is true.
If this situation doesn't bother you, fine. I hope you enjoy it.
The fact that you like it has nothing to my statement.
As an aside, i would agree that it is a strong subclass AFTER 2nd tier. You'll have Dread Form available for most fights, and the damage boost will feel good.
@@ChristnThms you must be playing in a high combat campaign. Personally I prefer traps and puzzles. I try to avoid combat and needing to go into turns and dice rolls as much as I can when running a D&D campaign. So there are actually times when I wouldn't have even one combat between two long rests; of course skill rolls are a different story. lol
Four to five combats seems more average but that still means you can use this for most combats.
@@johnchance7836 avoiding combat may be a perfectly valid playstyle, but has no bearing on this discussion since the feature in question is specifically a combat feature.
It is a feature which you can use twice to start, thrice at level 5, and eventually four times at level 9. Considering that most games end by or before level 10, that means that the majority of time you'll have the Dread Form available for half or less of your combats. Since the Dread Form is the ONLY feature the Undead Patron grants at level 1, that means that all combats played without access to the Dread Form are literally played as if you had no subclass.
That is the statement you seem to be objecting to. But you don't actually address it head on. You keep coming at it sideways, pretending that an irrelevant fact changes something.
It doesn't.
My original statement of fact stands.
As I said before, if you value that feature enough to feel that this trade off is worth it, great. I don't agree, but then I don't have to live with your decision. If you make the call and then enjoy it, that's exactly the way it's supposed to work. In fact, I genuinely hope that you DO enjoy whatever you choose to play. There is no gain in wishing people ill will.
I simply don't think that the feature is valuable enough (it IS valuable) for this trade off.
@@ChristnThms I think you missed the point. How often you need to be able to use this ability for it to be useful in every combat depends on how much combat you are doing.
That's situational. Most people who have replied say it's fine because you should expect at most 4-5 combats.
I think even that is a lot. Treantmonk wasn't generous. In many, if not most, campaigns you'll be able to use this most of the time. In mine it would be all the time.
In yours . . . well higher than average combat campaigns also exist. But like my campaign they are outliers.
You can't judge the subclass based on either very rare combat or constant battles. For most campaigns the amount of uses is going to be fine.
Hmm, Form of dread doesn't specify what happens you land multiple on hit attacks against many creatures at the same time. I could say that I landed a attack against a creature number one and another attack versus a creature two found of yonder.
my undead warlock wanted to bring his dead wife and daughter back to life. instead, he was given power over death. it wasnt the same. essentially he was tricked into a deal he never wanted to make with terms he never agreed to, with a patron who doesnt even remember the deal.
Multiclass with bard
Become a nec-Romancer
Honestly, I don't like this subclass. The theme is great, but I don't get how these partial transformations fit there. It's not something undead are famous for. For a warlock making a feature "oh guess they'll look like their patron for a while" is quite lazy I think.
Plus I generally don't like such transformation features as core subclass features. These fit much better as a capstone or at least a post-10th lvl feature. They are usually too flashy for low-level characters and feel like developers are running out of ideas for well-balanced passives.
I think the player should flavour the transformation as getting more and more creepy as warlock levels increase. Getting a hoarse voice and half your face looking 30 years older at lvl 1 or something. Just something that could look like an illusion, and then add more and more for each level.
> You wouldn't hit a bat with glasses on, would you?
La da da de da de da dum abracadabra
La dum da de da de da dum hocus-pocus
> I'm a vampire!
Well I'm an umpire! *(DM)
I think the worst part about dipping into this is that it locks you out of Hexblade, but that fear effect is *very* tempting
I mean if you can find a DM willing to let you dip into two different subclasses by making your Warlock get roped into two contracts simultaneously, which would TECHNICALLY be possible if both Patrons only had limited knowledge and their terms were loose enough...
@@Brutalyte616 oh lich I offer you 100 years of my life force for a small sliver of your power bam first level no long term comments just take 100 years off your elf long lifespan
@@THEdeadlynightshade1646 That's like a human offering ten years of their life. And the Lich probably wouldn't take the deal anyways and just swallow your soul.
@@Brutalyte616 that's how you role play it I see a lich as someone who has lived for thousands of years and is bored someone being so arrogant and cheap might just make him laugh and go you know what fine
@@THEdeadlynightshade1646 The Warlock's pact with their Patron is generally more binding and weighted in the Patron's favor; in exchange for power, you owe the Patron something they want. The Lich probably couldn't collect 100 years of someone's lifespan or do anything with it, so he'd probably go 'Oh, 100 years of your life? Deal.' Hands are shaken, power is exchanged, and then you realize that the bastard twisted the wording ever so slightly, so now you have to dedicate 100 years of your life to him at his discretion; instead of sucking away your lifeforce, he's just made you an indentured servant, and you can't refuse him whenever he calls you up to do something for him because that would break the pact and subject you to the tender mercies of your Patron, or whatever force in the universe deals with those who break pacts. And you, as the player, have no fucking control over any of this, because the GM is the one taking the role of your Patron, which means he's probably going to be a dick so he can figure out a way to work your pact into the narrative they've come up with.
0/10 Cannot cast animate dead as undead warlock
Poor warlock, forever a two-level class. XD