I think the last point in the video about enjoyment is the key to overcoming the fear. Just slow down until you can enjoy descending. Once you learn to enjoy descending, then you can slowly add speed.
On public roads with cars, I take it easy and slow when descending. A broken windshield for them means a broken spine (or death) for me. It's much easier and cheaper replacing brake pads than healing broken bones, trips to the ER, and physical therapy. Emma (what a great hire, GCN!) and Matt have good chemistry.
One small thing that has helped me quite a bit is simply putting wider tires on my bike. Perceived speed has so much to do with feeling road vibration in your hands. Wider, more supple tires cut down on this, therefore reducing perceived speed, increasing confidence.
I used to be ok with descending but one day, I hardly had time to skip a car coming on the opposite lane. Little by little I have been able to re gain confidence. Top speed 57kmph. Thank you for this great channel. Regards from Costa Rica.
Lots of people are uneducated that’s why they got the name enthusiastic. The vid makers are unwise too. The brakes are fully adjustable. All 4 fingers must be used on both hands for every braking operation you make. Your subconscious is going to love you. And it’s going to learn stuff your conscience mind can’t learn. You’re teaching your brain what to do automatically.
I never had a fear of descending until I came off on a wet and sketchy down hill in The Dales, now I find myself feeling nervous and braking more than I probably need to. This video is fantastic and I'll definitely take these tips on board as I slowly build my confidence back up.
Thanks for taking this subject seriously. Learned to ride in the flats and didn’t start riding hills until I moved to the Bay Area. Was never to comfortable. Now I’m in Boulder and my confidence is weak, particularly after melting1” of the front brake track on car in wheels. Hopefully my new disc brake road bike (which I should get any day now) will give me more confidence.
Chuck White-good road knowledge and traffic flow will help you understand the ‘braking points’ better~ I strongly recommend Schwalbe Durrano DD tires for training as they provide EXCELLENT traction/puncture resistance over many temps/surfaces. Tires are your only contact with the road-making them very important to select properly.
Many many thanks, I am just starting to cycle again after a 15 yr hiatus, descending has always been a issue. I felt that if I were to ride on the drops it would just mean that my face would hit the pavement that much sooner. I will give it try and see how it work out. I appreciate all the tips but this one is much needed. I am 65, its going to take some work. thanks again.
As someone who constantly rides the breaks going downhill, I couldn’t be happier to have Matt and Emma (my two favorite GCN presenters) make a video like this. ❤️
It's a different approach to descending, although I agree that mtb definitely adds to your skillset. I have no fear of losing traction on a mountain bike and actually enjoy it, as long as it's controlled. I can't say I ever enjoy road bike tyres skidding, especially on descents.
thanks for this. I’m the target audience for this video; previous crashes have really messed with my head and I’m very slow in descents. the worst is when I freeze in fear at the steep grade of a road and I have to get off the bike and walk it down a descent just to keep going.
This video doesn't explain that very well unfortunately. Search for video tutorials about countersteering on motorcycles. Basically, instead of turning the handlebars to the inside of the corner, you push forward on the inside handlebar and the bike will lean by itself. It sounds counter-intuitive but that's how it works.
Sounds counter intuitive, I just lean into the turn. as a kid maybe 7 years old I'd practice taking a side walk corner as fast as possible. I found that even with my inside pedal up I could lean into the turn until I hit the pedal and wiped out. Never thought about applying force to the inside handlebar forward. I'll think about that this spring, and give it a try.
Erebos, I am not speaking from experience, but doesn't motorcycle countersteering work great because there is a wheel in the back that pushes you toward the handlesbar's direction? A bike is going only on momentum, and do not forget that massive wheels compared to a motorycle. Sure, a degree of countersteering will work, I am just curious just how much would need to be applied. Anyway, I guess is just something I need to try on :D
It’s an alternative braking system which has nothing to do with the other braking systems. In some situations you should have less confidence cause in those situations disc brakes are inferior to other forms of brakes.
@@erickpodwill9074 in our society, if you want somebody to do something, you must pay them money as a trade for services or time consumed. You are antisocial erick. Seek medical treatment at once.
So what do you mean by counter steering? For me counter steering is when your rear wheel fishtails out and you counter steer into the direction of the fishtail to save yourself from wiping out. (Force on the bars?) Holding the bars firm, but not a death grip, is usually the best technique for holding anything, hockey stick, bat, sword, bike handle bars.
Drew Cama what you describe is called "backing it in". Where you break the rear wheel to turn into a corner faster. Counter steering is when you give an input into the handlebars in the same direction you wish to go e.g. push left to go left. It's how you steer at speed, the weight of a motorcycle is much greater so the input at the bars will be greater.
I'll go back and read what I wrote. Well thanks for the reply, but I don't really follow your comment. I never mentioned anything about breaking and if I push the handle bar with my left hand I will definitely go right.
Drew, I was using breaking the tire loose as a synonym for fishtailing. Here's a link that has another explanation of counter-steering: www.cycleworld.com/2013/10/25/know-how-to-countersteer-correctly
"Counter steering is the technique you apply to initiate that lean into the turn." from your link. I guess I've done this if I didn't set up for the turn properly and I have definitely noticed it when watching Motorcycle racing, though I thought it had more to do with man handling the big heavy bikes into a turn. On a bicycle I'd do it just as a fun way to accelerate into a turn when going slow. I just watched 3 gcn videos on down hill and didn't notice any of them doing it. I'll keep it in mind and give it a try this spring, thanks. Though it sounds a little jerky and not smooth. The technique will have to be subtle and well timed to prevent going over the handlebars at fast speeds, maybe I'll need to throw my weight back slightly at the same time.
I had a painful old crash about 3 years ago decending I touched the old back brake and sacrificed a nice patch of skin to the tarmac Gods from literally my arse to elbow and the helmet took a nice dent too. I've been back cycling again this week just doing a cheeky 14-15 miles per day back and forth from work, with lots and lots of hills and at first I took it slow because when I press the back brake I felt the whole bike try to lurch from under me. I never knew about pressing both brakes in this manner and it makes so much sense wish I knew it before my body had a momentary weld to the black stuff but hey ho, we live, we learn. Cheers GCN
Coming from a motorcycling background descending always came natural. Until age, fatherhood and a slightly twitchy, underbraked bike undermined my confidence a bit. Wider tyre, disc brake, relaxed geometry and slightly heavier new bike helped me relax again. 😎 Oh, and second the remark on Matt & Emma's on screen chemistry. Great presenters duo!
Late apexes are also safer, because you'll have more room to correct if the corner turns out to be more difficult than you thought. Rally drivers do this all the time.
Well, corner accuracy is achievable from a trailing brake setup.( More rear brake power than the front brake). Corner enter speed is adjusted from torque settings. Bike people have killed off torque adjustment. Lighter is better is a total lie! You’re always struggling to maintain momentum. You don’t over adjust brakes to compensate for no torque adjustment.
I was a very confident downhiller, until i switched to riding more gravel. The rules are a little different, with line choice being determined as much by the surface of the road as the grade and curve of it. Above everything else, safety is key. If taking the "fastest" line means putting yourself in danger of laying down, take a slower line. It's much better to take a wide, super slow line than to try to cut it tight and slip on some loose stuff.
I got a flat tire descending alpe d'huez, and even though I didn't crash, my confidence was gone. All those tips on the video work, but what really helped me was following a couple of experienced cyclists at a nice comfortable safe pace. It helped me focus on the cycling aspects of it, and not the fear. I then started using shallow descents (5%-6% grades) to start gaining confidence again. I still struggle descending any grades steeper than 11%, but since I live in a really flat area, it is not an issue. Lastly, EMMA did a superb job on the video - I think she is a natural at this presenting! I am also afraid of her training videos!
I want to advise to be sure the wheel and handle bars are centered with each other and check your bike before every ride. I was riding down a hill and everything was fine until hit about 45mph, my bike started to wobble from side to side and I could not control it. if this happens to you make sure to stay calm and slowly pull on both brake levers until the bike levels itself straight again.
Coming from a more mountain bike and hybrid wheel set up to a true, skinny, road tire set up has really brought out a a lot of fear of wiping out when jut hitting small pieces of gravel in the road. Trying my best to get the confidence up but has definitely been a hard progression for me.
Just on cornering and line, most descents are a gradient down one side of a ridge. This ridge side will be cut by gullies so the road will tend to have alternating curves around side ridges & gullies etc. This is of course not guaranteed, just the most common case. It is a mistake to try to apex each curve because this will leave your exit wide and late and if the next corner is the usual case you will be starting that corner very tight, maybe too tight to get around intact. The best strategy is what is known as a racing turn. This is where you start the turn late and wide with a plan to exit tight. Of course, your speed needs to be appropriate to this plan. In the usual case of the next corner being in the reflex direction, this strategy of exiting tight sets you up wide and safe for that corner. However, if the following corner is in the same direction, this becomes apparent well before you exit the turn and you will have time to adjust your line to exit wide and set up for it. Which is way better than apexing only to find yourself entering on the inside of the next turn with way too much speed and knowing you are about to become meat a crayon.
Something I would definitely recommend for people that live in a flat area is to do all or one of the following things: try to go into a corner(where you’re sure that you have no oncoming traffic) as fast as possible and try to take it as fast as possible(don’t ride into a ditch like I once did). You can also go fast into a short descent and brake hard to get used that particular sensation. If speed is your problem, then I would recommend finding a road where you can make use of a really hard tailwind(which is really fun, trust me). Personally I never had a problem with descending, but I did use these things to get better at it.
Dear GCN , Matt and Emma thank you for this episode because after I watched this I took 16 seconds off a decent I was too scared to enjoy ! I’ve been back into cycling now for almost a year and I’m hooked on both cycling and GCN ! Keep inspiring us ! Cheers
I love descending. I’m a very heavy rider and it takes its toll on me on ascension. Going down, i catch up my lost time. Fastest I’ve reached was 85kph.
On rough UK descending it,s vital that you are relaxed as some descents I have done in places such as Cumbria as so rough I tend to descend in a style more like mountain biking I keep my weight out the saddle and let the bike move underneath me I find this much more stable and comfortable.
I live in Norfolk UK so don't get much practice descending. I'm reasonably confident descending when there is land on both sides of the road, but where there are large drop offs on one side on proper mountain climbs I really struggle. its all about the fear of getting it wrong and going off the edge. I'm going to Mallorca next week some of the time will be spent specifically on descents. repeating the same same sections and building confidence through repetition.
Thanks!! Looking forward to trying these techniques out at the weekend....and hopefully starting to conquer my fears. More with Emma and Matt together please....my favourite duo!
Lots of good tips here...some the same as I learned in my motorcycle safety course years ago. Couple more are paying attention to corner entry speed. A lot of accidents happen because of this. Either the rider shoots off the edge of the road or they lay the bike down by braking in the middle of the turn. Braking while turning compromises traction. You should brake before the turn, then glide through the corner...as was mentioned, looking all the way through the turn (not at the ground) and staying wide as long as possible in case the turn has a late apex.
I built confidence through skiing, which is quick to learn and there are dry slopes everywhere, in the UK. If you're sticking to just cycling, I'd say to find a low traffic descent that takes more than a minute you can just keep going over. If you can find one, just build your speed up over descent after descent until you don't hesitate. Beware of speed, grip, brake strength, and the possibility of hitting stuff and you'll be fine even on unfamiliar descents
2 things that have helped me descending on my road bike: 1. Descending on my mountain bike. After doing a bunch of lift serviced bike park runs descending on the road is like nothing (at least for me). 2. Hands in the drops helps SO MUCH with braking. I did a 4 mile or so descent with quite a few switchbacks braking with my hands on the hoods and boy did my forearms and hands hurt. Same descent in the drops? Leverage is so much better and no pain or soreness at all.
You called it. After a couple of serious crashes (on level ground) I've lost my nerve over descending speeds. So much so that I felt anxious watching YOU descend. Both crashes were caused by poor maintenance. I love my bike but even after servicing by a professional mechanic I don't have confidence at high speeds and I don't see that ever changing.
This was absolutely great thanks! I have a roadbike which i use for commuting & the odd 350m vert hill ride, but mostly im a MTBer on a Downhill MTB, & while i am only just getting into single black trails, i still find descending easy & love it. Untill terrifying speed-wobbles yesterday on a new carbon roadbike that is.. Now my roadbike decent confidence is shot.. And i love decents on my old roadbike too & haven't had any trouble pushing to 60km besides my componentry needing an upgrade, & not being familiar with riding on the drops.. But since crashing my DH MTB last year & injuring my PCL ive been doing more roadbiking & so decided to upgrade. So i bought a 2nd hand carbon roadbike with campag groupset for a good price & rode it for the first hill sesh yesterday. So good uphill & i was madly looking forward to a steep & windy downhill, but then i got big speed-wobbles at 58km approaching a corner where my bike felt like it was made of jelly & i felt like i was going to die! I managed to hold it together & pull to a stop & slowly continue down the hill. But my confidence was shot.. I took my bike to a bike store to ask what caused it & it turned out id made the crucial mistake of not changing the set up from that of the older owner. So i dropped my stem, got a longer stem, changed the seat angle. All good.. Took it for a test run today & i literally had to take a breather before descending again.. I just totally was not relaxed & i was on the brakes way more than i normally would be. I read that pinching the top tube between your knees can dampen the frame & stop speed wobbles, so i just road down like that almost the whole way down, largely avoiding pedalling to get extra speed like i normally would. I tried using the drops but im just not familiar with them yet. So i rode on the hoods, with my knees pinching the top tube. It was the slowest ride down that very familiar hill that i think ive ever done. My strava section times are normally in the 50s, but today were as low as 35 on some sections.. It was thoroughly unenjoyable.. It's crazy to think that ive had numerous crashes on the MTB, & just gotten straight back on. And ive done steep chutes, drops, some jumps, some roots, & rocky sections. But ive never felt as much trepidation going back downhill, something i normally love, as i did today, with the memory & fear from that terrifying speed wobble experience yesterday. I guess its also getting familiar with a new bike that i literally bought last week. So its a combination of things. If i rode my familiar older roadbike, a Ridley Compact, a nice ride but with a small dint in the braking surface of the rear wheel, even with that dint in the braking surface, i probably wouldn't be as scared as descending on my new carbon bike that i almost crashed either into a guardrail or onto the road yesterday.. So cheers for this video. I think it will help with getting my confidence back. I'm probably also more shaken up than i otherwise might be because im still recovering from a PCL injury & i really want to get back on the MTB asap too after a wrong diagnosis for 2 months doubling the healing time. As far as bike handling goes, I'm also used to the geometry of a Downhill MTB & the stopping power of four pot Magura brakes with 203mm rotors too. All of which contributes to my new gained fear of descending, atleast on my new bike, despite higher spec than my old roadbike, & despite loving descents untill yesterday haha! Hopefully this video helps fix that.. I guess i will find out in a few days haha! I'm going to ride on the drops alot more even just on the flat, to get my muscle memory used to them. Hopefully the new familiarity will fix the tension which will flow to more control & more fun.. I'll see in a few days when i next go back up & down.. Cheers for the tips.
I love descending and hate climbing! The secret is to find the sweet spot body position relative to the bike - usually by moving your backside towards the rear wheel and bringing your knees towards the top tube.
I didnt think I had a problem with descents until I did Lanzarote 70.3 yday. I was "woohoo" on the descents of my previous races but saw my life flash before my eyes multiple times yesterday
You guys made this for me!!! I live in a very flat area and almost never get the chance to descend. Last weekend I took a trip just so I could ride in some hills. I learned a couple of things. I suck at climbing. And fast descents were a bit intimidating. So thanks for this. I have watched it twice and will try it again this weekend actually focus on relaxing.
Fast descents on a bicycle are quite similar to riding a motorcycle in handling and dynamics. Countersteering (pushing the handlebar in the direction you want to turn/lean), weight transfer, hitting the apex in corners, they're all the same at higher speeds.
In a way, yes, but motorcycle handling is vastly different and more difficult at low speeds due to the machine weighing more than you. On a bicycle, you're balancing mostly your own weight. On a motorcycle, you're mostly balancing the weight of the machine and it's a very different skillset below about 20mph.
on a road bike kinda... but nothing prepares you for the weight and engine power of the moto, over 100kph wind changes attitude :)) you have some nasty suspension effects, and your right hand always adjusts the throttle :))
One of the popular myths of countersteering is that it only applies to a fast moving and heavy motorcycle. The reality is that it applies to *all* balancing modes of transport, including motorcycles, bicycles, snowboards, at all speeds. Countersteering is quite literally the fundamental trick to "learning to ride a bike", which we are normally forced to do entirely subconsciously as children. The biggest challenge kids have is learning to not try to steer into the turn, because it'll cause the bike to lean the wrong way. The wobble of death directly into an obstacle they're trying to avoid is their brain fighting with the underlying physics requirement to countersteer to turn. After I learned about consciously countersteering my motorcycle many years ago, I went back and applied it to my bicycling and it gave me the confidence to initiate turns much faster and adjust my line with precision, and to not run wide when I'm forced to brake midturn. We tend to hear little tricks like "lean into the turn", but the side effect of leaning into the turn is that we subconsciously push on the inside bar which causes countersteering. It's a lot more effective to just realize that to initiate a hard lean to the right, you have to turn the bars left a bit first. Practice it in an open parking lot. Try initiating a fast turn the old way (by not really thinking about it). Then do it by "leaning into the turn", and finally just give the bars a little push in the opposite direction that you want to go, and then relax the grip to let the bars turn back into the turn as the bike leans. Generally you should find the last technique is much faster. Finally try establishing a steady state turn in one direction, and then try to reverse it as quickly as possible to go the other way. Again a small rotation of the bars into the turn will cause the bike to drive under your CG to initiate a lean in the opposite direction.
The two most important things you didn't emphasise enough were Looking to where you want to go and bike and body leaning over the outside pedal. Your bike follows your eyes. Actually your shoulders follow your eyes and your hands and hips follow your shoulders. When you have missed judged a turn and your going wider than you planned. Don't look at the parked car or pot hole. Look at where you want to go,it's a life saver and should actually be practiced so you realise how true it is. Take a corner on a flat faster than you would normal and see how much sharper you can take it by exaggerating you eye line inwards and notice how the bike follows your eyes. trusts and force your eye line in. Only through trusting the technique will it prevent you from hitting the breaks to save yourself. looking out for dust in the corner, that is a wipe out potential for sure. Choose the line that has the least or no dirt is always the safest. Weight on the out side pedal for maximum traction. This might be a whole section in its self. Can I over lean my bike if I apply more force or stand up hard on the outside peddle? Whats the optimum bike angel inward to body angle more upright with more weight over the outside pedal? 20 degrees, 15 degrees 10 degrees difference? depends on the wheels and tier pressure as well I bet. lets head on over to your other descending skills video and see if it says anything additional.
Also...if you have to scrub speed or brake in a corner, it's best to release the front brake and let the rear brake shoulder the work. This let's your front wheel spin freely to steer, giving you just a hint of oversteer to get you around the turn but not enough to make you lose control (you'll actually feel more in control). Holding the front brake midcorner will just increase understeer which will only make things worse and possibly make you crash.
At the apex of a corner the brakes can put you down but they can't keep you up. If you get to that point and you haven't already slowed down enough you have no spare traction to brake with. If you get to that point and happen to be at 99% of the limit for going round it, then even a slight bit of braking will put you down when you would otherwise have stayed upright. Getting some scientific input to this kind of video from someone from say the world of Formula 1, who could explain the theory, would make it even better.
Another important thing to consider is the type of tire and wheel. When I used stock wheels that came with my bike, it felt sketchy around 40mph. Once I upgraded to better wheels, the traction felt solid and I was able to descend with confidence. When I switched back to the old wheels while the new wheels were in the shop to get trued, I immediately noticed how sketchy the stock wheels were on descents. If you plan to hit a down hill hard, make sure your tire isn't worn out.
Good road knowledge and traffic flow will help you understand the ‘braking points’ better~ I strongly recommend Schwalbe Durrano DD tires for training as they provide EXCELLENT traction/puncture resistance over many temps/surfaces. Tires are your only contact with the road-making them very important to select properly.
I first started riding MTB and have been riding a road bike for 2 years now. I love going downhill on a road bike as fast as possible and it does not phase me. I think this comes from MTB it really improves your bike handling skills. If you are used to going downhill off road fast then a smooth road is a lot easier.
"try to look towards where you want to ride" is IMHO the part that a lot of people don't seem to master. To that I would like to add: 1. If possible, well before the corner, glance far ahead for oncoming traffic. 2. Before you enter the corner, keep your eyes on a fixed distance (something like 30 meters) in front of you, on the line you want to ride, and keep the focus distance constant while cornering. 3. On a inside lane corner do not be tempted to focus on the road surface just ahead because you will end up on the outside lane, if there is a car coming ahead you're in big trouble!
Potholes, bumps and gravel on the road gave me a few near death experience during high speed descents, so be very careful with them. At autumn times, wet leaves on the road can be extremely slippery, just like ice.
Thanks for the tips! Descending is one skill with which I have not seen any progress in the seven years I've been cycling. Particularly, I learned to be on the drops and to look further down the road. Also I think some new rim break pads are in order to increase confidence. Cheers.
I use to descend slowly, twice as fast as I go uphill. Mainly because of the road surface, if it is good though, I'm turning the afterburners on. Also prefer descending on the hoods, I know it's not the best way, but I feel much more in control this way. Braking in the middle of the turn is something I do almost always, which is also not how it should be done, but when you're carriyng too much speed is necessary. It's important to be done gently however. Don't panic, loosen up a little and enjoy it.
OMG this show is dialed in!...just perfect! Matt as always, so good to see you, and Emma the fit is sublime, you are now a wonderful show fixture... But I'm missing Otaahhhwaa...haha Dan's "Ottawa"...to laugh at oneself shows confidence and strength...where is Dan! where is Tom!
Thanks for the good tip GCN. I live in a quite flat area and really needed this tip. Matt and Emma togeather are the GCN dream team since they are true national champs!
Just picked up my first road bike -Specialized Allez Sport- and had a bit of a shocker trying to descend on it. We have a place on Mt Baldy so the roads are steep and switchbacks come at you quickly, but I felt zero in control of the bike being so high up on the seat with the bars so low (yes, I was fitted for the bike). I have been doing the same ride on a mountain bike and it's a no brainer. I also ride motorcycles so used to a quick descent. However, on the road bike, I felt out of my element 100%. Hopefully these videos will help with what is so intuitive on my other rides.
Happens all the time to me so I make sure to never leave the lane. Done it only once when the surface was real wet. Glad nobody was coming or I'd be dead. I wish I could do something to the drivers who think they can hog the whole road and make the guy with the thin tires eat potholes, gravel and sand by the edge, but I'm not the one in the large vehicle.
In the rural area where I live that has lots of single or one and a half lane width roads the arseholes in their massive 4x4s drive round the lanes like there will never be anyone there. This is scary both on a bike and when I'm driving!
liked how the vid was made. For some reason i really liked the music used. Emma and Matt really work well together. Almost like brother and sister that haven't seen each other for a year or so
I’ve always been a little bit too comfortable on a Bike and even with descending. I’ll see a massive hill and just bomb it, all I see is the Adrenaline rush and go for it, just make sure my tires and brakes are in good shape, which I do before I ride and yeh , down we go. Haven’t had a fall since I was 12, which I’m thankful for, some of those hills would have killed me
I just get so nervous. I keep climbing up the hill to train, then walking back down with the bike. Hopefully one day I'll learn not to be so afraid of crashing!
Emma, you are a top ascender and I am sure descender. I descend on the bar tops through years of habit. I am trying to learn to descend in the hooks or drops. I am incrementally changing my descending style but I'm fearful or uncomfortable with this new position. Any tips or pointers would be graciously appreciated.
Some good tips here. Personally, I find concentrating on the guard rail (or rock face) on the inside of a right turn helpful (Not applicable to UK). That doesn't work in left turns, so those are more tricky. Also, the video doesn't talk much about "body english" - which seems to be more important with taller riders (I have to do a lot). Currently in my fifth month in the Canary Islands, so getting lots of descending practice - and seeing some improvements.
The thing that has help me the most to overcome my fear of descending is following riders with more experience than myself. As long as I take my turns going up (and pick up the coffee tab from time to time) they are more than happy to help me out. I still get dropped, but I'm getting better and much more confident when I'm by myself.
Was a killer descender until I crashed going 40mph on a descent. Slowly building my skills back. First road race of the season is tomorrow so wish me luck!
I gotta say I used to ride a mountain bike with the saddle as low as it will go and when I started getting into riding road bikes with an adjusted or lowered saddle going downhill it made me so much more aware of my weight distribution. First time I tried it I felt like I was fighting falling forward and I'm still trying to break the habit of lowering the seat before going downhill
Speed wobbles are a result of harmonic oscillation of the frame and the wheels. When that happens, either grip the top tube with your knees, or lean forward and put the weight over the front wheel. Main culprit of this is being tense; your arms should naturally damp out the vibrations. If you tense them up, they start to get aggravated.
recently happened to me in the UK on a decent of a 10% ( toys hill in kent) it happened as I had slightly moved my seat a few centimentres back, very scary, I got around the rest of the ride by keeping one foot straight down redistributing my weight, it worked OK although I have now set the seat back in the original position
"Speed wobbles" are a form of Hopf Bifurcation, a nonlinear instability, not an harmonic oscillation. A common example is the wobble of a grocery shopping cart wheel. The phenomenon has also been associated with train car derailments. The best discussion I have seen on the topic related to bicycles was several years ago on the Velonews.com website; Leonard Zinn offers an excellent presentation.
I can really, really recommend putting as much weight as possible on your outside leg and inside hand. It's so much more stable. It gave me lots more confidence on my motorcycle.
Such a good good video, delivered in the right way, I say this as someone who did have an accident and came off, and confidence has been shot since, and this is good sound advice.
They’re not wise. Formula 1 drivers know way more stuff about cornering and decending and the rest. The designer of the bike knows more. They did the calculations. You need to talk to them not idiot riders who never went to uni.
Thanks guys - I live in Cape Town, and have just done the Cape Town Cycle Tour, so those long and intense downhills are still fresh in my mind - I will definitely be employing some of these techniques to become more confident on the downhills, and to attempt to improve my time, should I do it again next year.
when descending my body just kinda freezes, i can't get the full control of the bike so i had no choice but to slow down and let my brakes do the work.
Some good tips. Great to have Emma join the gcn crew. Not just a women’s perspective, but another former pro cyclist and accomplished athlete. Also, are you guys using new camera gear? Picture quality, camera angles etc looking much better!
Love descending, have hit 50mph a few times down the cairnwell (Glenshee) in Scotland. Was a bit windy one time, and the bike developed a rather nasty wobble/shimmy that seemed to get worse, to the point I thought I was going to get thrown off the bike. Was really tough to bring under control, and touching the brakes didn't help - if anything it made it worse. Thought it was a loose q/r skewer or headset, but everything on the bike was tight and to torque ... think I just had a freak set of circumstances that triggered the resonant frequency of the frame. Scary as hell at the time. What's the suggested method(s) for correcting this should it occur on a quick descent?
I had this too descending in the Pennines last weekend, couldn't avoid drift with the wind- and when I did try to hold my line the front end got twitchy. I thought that the wind was limiting my grip on the surface, just enough for the front end to go light and yes it was bit of a rush.
I’ve gotten nervous and had the death wobble in the handlebars. Scared me into disliking descents. Trying to relax my chest and arms and remembering mental affirmations.
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA Finals D1 | Fall | ยิงต้องโหด ให้เหมือนโกรธกันมาก่อน](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OnTdfGySmds/mqdefault.jpg)
![🎤 จับฉลากร้องเพลง x P’ #XXSIVK [EP.1] (2/2) เพื่อนจับได้คำไหน..ต้องร้องคำนั้น เริ่ม! 💓🎶 #MXFRUIT](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1bJvMJXmeS4/mqdefault.jpg)
Let us know if these descending tips helped. Do you now love descending?
Global Cycling Network i’ll apply these things tomorrow.
Decent 👍👏 me like very much.pat from Belgium 🚲
I think the last point in the video about enjoyment is the key to overcoming the fear. Just slow down until you can enjoy descending. Once you learn to enjoy descending, then you can slowly add speed.
How far can you lean before you lose grip? Matt mentioned it's dependent on how much weight you leave on the saddle, I didn't really understand.
Fantastic video guys. What’s not to love about descending!!
"At the end of the day, staying safe and enjoying your cycling is far more important than speed." - Words to live by. Thank you, Emma!
11robotics exactly, best comment by a GCN presenter so far. Safety first.
Safety and pleasure while cycling. What's the point in going for a bike ride if not getting a huge smile on our face at the end of it?
I'm such a wuss on a descent. I think I'm the only person who goes up a hill quicker than I come down it 😨
Mcdoobies 73 Nope mate, you are not...lol
Nope, at 90kg, I'm behind you both ways.
Me too, I tell people I go uphill like I am going downhill. They think I climb like a pro, in reality I just descend super slow.
Nope you're not!
We're the same then 😱 guess I have more fun climbing too
On public roads with cars, I take it easy and slow when descending. A broken windshield for them means a broken spine (or death) for me. It's much easier and cheaper replacing brake pads than healing broken bones, trips to the ER, and physical therapy.
Emma (what a great hire, GCN!) and Matt have good chemistry.
Thanks Nero!
One small thing that has helped me quite a bit is simply putting wider tires on my bike. Perceived speed has so much to do with feeling road vibration in your hands. Wider, more supple tires cut down on this, therefore reducing perceived speed, increasing confidence.
Also more grip for corners
I used to be ok with descending but one day, I hardly had time to skip a car coming on the opposite lane. Little by little I have been able to re gain confidence. Top speed 57kmph. Thank you for this great channel. Regards from Costa Rica.
Super tip on brake lever reach Emma - I see plenty of people who struggle with this, and aren't even aware that this adjustable!
Lots of people are uneducated that’s why they got the name enthusiastic.
The vid makers are unwise too.
The brakes are fully adjustable. All 4 fingers must be used on both hands for every braking operation you make. Your subconscious is going to love you. And it’s going to learn stuff your conscience mind can’t learn. You’re teaching your brain what to do automatically.
I never had a fear of descending until I came off on a wet and sketchy down hill in The Dales, now I find myself feeling nervous and braking more than I probably need to. This video is fantastic and I'll definitely take these tips on board as I slowly build my confidence back up.
Thanks for taking this subject seriously. Learned to ride in the flats and didn’t start riding hills until I moved to the Bay Area. Was never to comfortable. Now I’m in Boulder and my confidence is weak, particularly after melting1” of the front brake track on car in wheels. Hopefully my new disc brake road bike (which I should get any day now) will give me more confidence.
Chuck White-good road knowledge and traffic flow will help you understand the ‘braking points’ better~ I strongly recommend Schwalbe Durrano DD tires for training as they provide EXCELLENT traction/puncture resistance over many temps/surfaces. Tires are your only contact with the road-making them very important to select properly.
How did your huffy, mongoose or magna disc bike work out for you?
Corner enter speed is adjusted with torque settings not brakes. Acceleration is responsible for a lot of problems.
You’ve got a lot of learning to do.
Many many thanks, I am just starting to cycle again after a 15 yr hiatus, descending has always been a issue. I felt that if I were to ride on the drops it would just mean that my face would hit the pavement that much sooner. I will give it try and see how it work out. I appreciate all the tips but this one is much needed. I am 65, its going to take some work. thanks again.
As someone who constantly rides the breaks going downhill, I couldn’t be happier to have Matt and Emma (my two favorite GCN presenters) make a video like this. ❤️
Descending is awesome, especially when you've just blasted up a climb, wish I had one of those Canyons to do it 😎
I'm surprised nobody mentioned mountain biking as a way to help.
It's a different approach to descending, although I agree that mtb definitely adds to your skillset. I have no fear of losing traction on a mountain bike and actually enjoy it, as long as it's controlled. I can't say I ever enjoy road bike tyres skidding, especially on descents.
Or gravel biking.
I feel the opposite, being used to MTB positioning, stopping power and bump absorbtion makes me very scared descending on a road bike!
thanks for this. I’m the target audience for this video; previous crashes have really messed with my head and I’m very slow in descents. the worst is when I freeze in fear at the steep grade of a road and I have to get off the bike and walk it down a descent just to keep going.
So good to have Emma on GCN. Emma and Matt are a great combo presenting on this extremely helpful topic. Thanks!
Thanks David!
I just got my first road bike, and it seems that there's a lot to learn, especially the idea of leaning to turn.
This video doesn't explain that very well unfortunately. Search for video tutorials about countersteering on motorcycles.
Basically, instead of turning the handlebars to the inside of the corner, you push forward on the inside handlebar and the bike will lean by itself. It sounds counter-intuitive but that's how it works.
ErebosGR thanks for the heads up, I'll have a look.
Try out Emma's top tip of practicing leaning at a jogging pace on a flat surface, that should help build confidence
Sounds counter intuitive, I just lean into the turn. as a kid maybe 7 years old I'd practice taking a side walk corner as fast as possible. I found that even with my inside pedal up I could lean into the turn until I hit the pedal and wiped out. Never thought about applying force to the inside handlebar forward. I'll think about that this spring, and give it a try.
Erebos, I am not speaking from experience, but doesn't motorcycle countersteering work great because there is a wheel in the back that pushes you toward the handlesbar's direction? A bike is going only on momentum, and do not forget that massive wheels compared to a motorycle. Sure, a degree of countersteering will work, I am just curious just how much would need to be applied. Anyway, I guess is just something I need to try on :D
I love descending and having disc brakes definitely helps my confidence
It’s an alternative braking system which has nothing to do with the other braking systems. In some situations you should have less confidence cause in those situations disc brakes are inferior to other forms of brakes.
@@dreyn7780 What are the situations where disc brakes are inferior to other forms of brakes?
@@erickpodwill9074 in our society, if you want somebody to do something, you must pay them money as a trade for services or time consumed. You are antisocial erick. Seek medical treatment at once.
I have disc brakes and still scared.
Counter steering is something I learned on a motorcycle and has helped me when cycling on descents.
So what do you mean by counter steering? For me counter steering is when your rear wheel fishtails out and you counter steer into the direction of the fishtail to save yourself from wiping out. (Force on the bars?) Holding the bars firm, but not a death grip, is usually the best technique for holding anything, hockey stick, bat, sword, bike handle bars.
Drew Cama what you describe is called "backing it in". Where you break the rear wheel to turn into a corner faster.
Counter steering is when you give an input into the handlebars in the same direction you wish to go e.g. push left to go left. It's how you steer at speed, the weight of a motorcycle is much greater so the input at the bars will be greater.
I'll go back and read what I wrote. Well thanks for the reply, but I don't really follow your comment. I never mentioned anything about breaking and if I push the handle bar with my left hand I will definitely go right.
Drew, I was using breaking the tire loose as a synonym for fishtailing. Here's a link that has another explanation of counter-steering: www.cycleworld.com/2013/10/25/know-how-to-countersteer-correctly
"Counter steering is the technique you apply to initiate that lean into the turn." from your link. I guess I've done this if I didn't set up for the turn properly and I have definitely noticed it when watching Motorcycle racing, though I thought it had more to do with man handling the big heavy bikes into a turn. On a bicycle I'd do it just as a fun way to accelerate into a turn when going slow. I just watched 3 gcn videos on down hill and didn't notice any of them doing it. I'll keep it in mind and give it a try this spring, thanks. Though it sounds a little jerky and not smooth. The technique will have to be subtle and well timed to prevent going over the handlebars at fast speeds, maybe I'll need to throw my weight back slightly at the same time.
I had a painful old crash about 3 years ago decending I touched the old back brake and sacrificed a nice patch of skin to the tarmac Gods from literally my arse to elbow and the helmet took a nice dent too. I've been back cycling again this week just doing a cheeky 14-15 miles per day back and forth from work, with lots and lots of hills and at first I took it slow because when I press the back brake I felt the whole bike try to lurch from under me. I never knew about pressing both brakes in this manner and it makes so much sense wish I knew it before my body had a momentary weld to the black stuff but hey ho, we live, we learn. Cheers GCN
Coming from a motorcycling background descending always came natural. Until age, fatherhood and a slightly twitchy, underbraked bike undermined my confidence a bit. Wider tyre, disc brake, relaxed geometry and slightly heavier new bike helped me relax again. 😎 Oh, and second the remark on Matt & Emma's on screen chemistry. Great presenters duo!
If you hit the apex to early you are likely to run wide. So try to aim for a late apex, the road will straighten out quicker that way.
Late apexes are also safer, because you'll have more room to correct if the corner turns out to be more difficult than you thought. Rally drivers do this all the time.
This is what I've been doing wrong.
Well, corner accuracy is achievable from a trailing brake setup.( More rear brake power than the front brake). Corner enter speed is adjusted from torque settings.
Bike people have killed off torque adjustment. Lighter is better is a total lie! You’re always struggling to maintain momentum. You don’t over adjust brakes to compensate for no torque adjustment.
I need a group therapy session for people who fears from descending.
I’ll join
I was a very confident downhiller, until i switched to riding more gravel. The rules are a little different, with line choice being determined as much by the surface of the road as the grade and curve of it. Above everything else, safety is key. If taking the "fastest" line means putting yourself in danger of laying down, take a slower line. It's much better to take a wide, super slow line than to try to cut it tight and slip on some loose stuff.
I got a flat tire descending alpe d'huez, and even though I didn't crash, my confidence was gone. All those tips on the video work, but what really helped me was following a couple of experienced cyclists at a nice comfortable safe pace. It helped me focus on the cycling aspects of it, and not the fear. I then started using shallow descents (5%-6% grades) to start gaining confidence again. I still struggle descending any grades steeper than 11%, but since I live in a really flat area, it is not an issue. Lastly, EMMA did a superb job on the video - I think she is a natural at this presenting! I am also afraid of her training videos!
I want to advise to be sure the wheel and handle bars are centered with each other and check your bike before every ride. I was riding down a hill and everything was fine until hit about 45mph, my bike started to wobble from side to side and I could not control it. if this happens to you make sure to stay calm and slowly pull on both brake levers until the bike levels itself straight again.
Coming from a more mountain bike and hybrid wheel set up to a true, skinny, road tire set up has really brought out a a lot of fear of wiping out when jut hitting small pieces of gravel in the road. Trying my best to get the confidence up but has definitely been a hard progression for me.
When I get to the top of a mountain decent I always tell myself to get home safe to the wife and kids!
Just on cornering and line, most descents are a
gradient down one side of a ridge. This ridge side will be cut by gullies so
the road will tend to have alternating curves around side ridges & gullies
etc. This is of course not guaranteed, just the most common case. It is a
mistake to try to apex each curve because this will leave your exit wide and
late and if the next corner is the usual case you will be starting that corner
very tight, maybe too tight to get around intact. The best strategy is what is
known as a racing turn. This is where you start the turn late and wide with a
plan to exit tight. Of course, your speed needs to be appropriate to this plan.
In the usual case of the next corner being in the reflex direction, this
strategy of exiting tight sets you up wide and safe for that corner. However, if
the following corner is in the same direction, this becomes apparent well before
you exit the turn and you will have time to adjust your line to exit wide and
set up for it. Which is way better than apexing only to find yourself entering
on the inside of the next turn with way too much speed and knowing you are
about to become meat a crayon.
Hmmm I suspect Emma has slowed her speech for TH-cam 🙂
Something I would definitely recommend for people that live in a flat area is to do all or one of the following things: try to go into a corner(where you’re sure that you have no oncoming traffic) as fast as possible and try to take it as fast as possible(don’t ride into a ditch like I once did). You can also go fast into a short descent and brake hard to get used that particular sensation. If speed is your problem, then I would recommend finding a road where you can make use of a really hard tailwind(which is really fun, trust me).
Personally I never had a problem with descending, but I did use these things to get better at it.
Niels Heldens I love tail wind...I had got moderare to strong tailwind once and it feels like heavens...it's like sailing all the way through!
Dear GCN ,
Matt and Emma thank you for this episode because after I watched this I took 16 seconds off a decent I was too scared to enjoy !
I’ve been back into cycling now for almost a year and I’m hooked on both cycling and GCN ! Keep inspiring us ! Cheers
Wow Hugo, great news! Thanks for the support
I love descending. I’m a very heavy rider and it takes its toll on me on ascension. Going down, i catch up my lost time. Fastest I’ve reached was 85kph.
85kph holy shit
On rough UK descending it,s vital that you are relaxed as some descents I have done in places such as Cumbria as so rough I tend to descend in a style more like mountain biking I keep my weight out the saddle and let the bike move underneath me I find this much more stable and comfortable.
I live in Norfolk UK so don't get much practice descending. I'm reasonably confident descending when there is land on both sides of the road, but where there are large drop offs on one side on proper mountain climbs I really struggle. its all about the fear of getting it wrong and going off the edge. I'm going to Mallorca next week some of the time will be spent specifically on descents. repeating the same same sections and building confidence through repetition.
Thanks!! Looking forward to trying these techniques out at the weekend....and hopefully starting to conquer my fears. More with Emma and Matt together please....my favourite duo!
Let us know how it goes!
Emma Pooley is great on this. Also, Matt's bike is lovely.
Lots of good tips here...some the same as I learned in my motorcycle safety course years ago. Couple more are paying attention to corner entry speed. A lot of accidents happen because of this. Either the rider shoots off the edge of the road or they lay the bike down by braking in the middle of the turn. Braking while turning compromises traction. You should brake before the turn, then glide through the corner...as was mentioned, looking all the way through the turn (not at the ground) and staying wide as long as possible in case the turn has a late apex.
Dry Road and Confidence in your Tyres. I live in Cornwall and love Descending Fast, i try to stay within my limits but i think i do Push it sometimes.
I built confidence through skiing, which is quick to learn and there are dry slopes everywhere, in the UK. If you're sticking to just cycling, I'd say to find a low traffic descent that takes more than a minute you can just keep going over. If you can find one, just build your speed up over descent after descent until you don't hesitate. Beware of speed, grip, brake strength, and the possibility of hitting stuff and you'll be fine even on unfamiliar descents
love what you did with the music in this one. good topic to
2 things that have helped me descending on my road bike:
1. Descending on my mountain bike. After doing a bunch of lift serviced bike park runs descending on the road is like nothing (at least for me).
2. Hands in the drops helps SO MUCH with braking. I did a 4 mile or so descent with quite a few switchbacks braking with my hands on the hoods and boy did my forearms and hands hurt. Same descent in the drops? Leverage is so much better and no pain or soreness at all.
You called it. After a couple of serious crashes (on level ground) I've lost my nerve over descending speeds. So much so that I felt anxious watching YOU descend. Both crashes were caused by poor maintenance. I love my bike but even after servicing by a professional mechanic I don't have confidence at high speeds and I don't see that ever changing.
This was absolutely great thanks! I have a roadbike which i use for commuting & the odd 350m vert hill ride, but mostly im a MTBer on a Downhill MTB, & while i am only just getting into single black trails, i still find descending easy & love it. Untill terrifying speed-wobbles yesterday on a new carbon roadbike that is.. Now my roadbike decent confidence is shot.. And i love decents on my old roadbike too & haven't had any trouble pushing to 60km besides my componentry needing an upgrade, & not being familiar with riding on the drops.. But since crashing my DH MTB last year & injuring my PCL ive been doing more roadbiking & so decided to upgrade. So i bought a 2nd hand carbon roadbike with campag groupset for a good price & rode it for the first hill sesh yesterday. So good uphill & i was madly looking forward to a steep & windy downhill, but then i got big speed-wobbles at 58km approaching a corner where my bike felt like it was made of jelly & i felt like i was going to die! I managed to hold it together & pull to a stop & slowly continue down the hill. But my confidence was shot.. I took my bike to a bike store to ask what caused it & it turned out id made the crucial mistake of not changing the set up from that of the older owner. So i dropped my stem, got a longer stem, changed the seat angle. All good..
Took it for a test run today & i literally had to take a breather before descending again.. I just totally was not relaxed & i was on the brakes way more than i normally would be. I read that pinching the top tube between your knees can dampen the frame & stop speed wobbles, so i just road down like that almost the whole way down, largely avoiding pedalling to get extra speed like i normally would. I tried using the drops but im just not familiar with them yet. So i rode on the hoods, with my knees pinching the top tube. It was the slowest ride down that very familiar hill that i think ive ever done. My strava section times are normally in the 50s, but today were as low as 35 on some sections.. It was thoroughly unenjoyable..
It's crazy to think that ive had numerous crashes on the MTB, & just gotten straight back on. And ive done steep chutes, drops, some jumps, some roots, & rocky sections. But ive never felt as much trepidation going back downhill, something i normally love, as i did today, with the memory & fear from that terrifying speed wobble experience yesterday. I guess its also getting familiar with a new bike that i literally bought last week. So its a combination of things. If i rode my familiar older roadbike, a Ridley Compact, a nice ride but with a small dint in the braking surface of the rear wheel, even with that dint in the braking surface, i probably wouldn't be as scared as descending on my new carbon bike that i almost crashed either into a guardrail or onto the road yesterday..
So cheers for this video. I think it will help with getting my confidence back. I'm probably also more shaken up than i otherwise might be because im still recovering from a PCL injury & i really want to get back on the MTB asap too after a wrong diagnosis for 2 months doubling the healing time. As far as bike handling goes, I'm also used to the geometry of a Downhill MTB & the stopping power of four pot Magura brakes with 203mm rotors too. All of which contributes to my new gained fear of descending, atleast on my new bike, despite higher spec than my old roadbike, & despite loving descents untill yesterday haha!
Hopefully this video helps fix that.. I guess i will find out in a few days haha! I'm going to ride on the drops alot more even just on the flat, to get my muscle memory used to them. Hopefully the new familiarity will fix the tension which will flow to more control & more fun.. I'll see in a few days when i next go back up & down.. Cheers for the tips.
I love descending and hate climbing! The secret is to find the sweet spot body position relative to the bike - usually by moving your backside towards the rear wheel and bringing your knees towards the top tube.
I didnt think I had a problem with descents until I did Lanzarote 70.3 yday. I was "woohoo" on the descents of my previous races but saw my life flash before my eyes multiple times yesterday
You guys made this for me!!! I live in a very flat area and almost never get the chance to descend. Last weekend I took a trip just so I could ride in some hills. I learned a couple of things. I suck at climbing. And fast descents were a bit intimidating. So thanks for this. I have watched it twice and will try it again this weekend actually focus on relaxing.
Glad to hear you found the video so useful, Stuart!
Fast descents on a bicycle are quite similar to riding a motorcycle in handling and dynamics. Countersteering (pushing the handlebar in the direction you want to turn/lean), weight transfer, hitting the apex in corners, they're all the same at higher speeds.
Would you say descending is good practice for future motorcycling?
In a way, yes, but motorcycle handling is vastly different and more difficult at low speeds due to the machine weighing more than you. On a bicycle, you're balancing mostly your own weight. On a motorcycle, you're mostly balancing the weight of the machine and it's a very different skillset below about 20mph.
on a road bike kinda... but nothing prepares you for the weight and engine power of the moto, over 100kph wind changes attitude :)) you have some nasty suspension effects, and your right hand always adjusts the throttle :))
One of the popular myths of countersteering is that it only applies to a fast moving and heavy motorcycle. The reality is that it applies to *all* balancing modes of transport, including motorcycles, bicycles, snowboards, at all speeds. Countersteering is quite literally the fundamental trick to "learning to ride a bike", which we are normally forced to do entirely subconsciously as children. The biggest challenge kids have is learning to not try to steer into the turn, because it'll cause the bike to lean the wrong way. The wobble of death directly into an obstacle they're trying to avoid is their brain fighting with the underlying physics requirement to countersteer to turn.
After I learned about consciously countersteering my motorcycle many years ago, I went back and applied it to my bicycling and it gave me the confidence to initiate turns much faster and adjust my line with precision, and to not run wide when I'm forced to brake midturn. We tend to hear little tricks like "lean into the turn", but the side effect of leaning into the turn is that we subconsciously push on the inside bar which causes countersteering. It's a lot more effective to just realize that to initiate a hard lean to the right, you have to turn the bars left a bit first. Practice it in an open parking lot. Try initiating a fast turn the old way (by not really thinking about it). Then do it by "leaning into the turn", and finally just give the bars a little push in the opposite direction that you want to go, and then relax the grip to let the bars turn back into the turn as the bike leans. Generally you should find the last technique is much faster.
Finally try establishing a steady state turn in one direction, and then try to reverse it as quickly as possible to go the other way. Again a small rotation of the bars into the turn will cause the bike to drive under your CG to initiate a lean in the opposite direction.
Awesome video. It has given me many tips to try. I am petrified of descending. Hopefully now I can overcome this. Thank you Emma and Matt! You rock!
Cheers James!
The two most important things you didn't emphasise enough were Looking to where you want to go and bike and body leaning over the outside pedal. Your bike follows your eyes. Actually your shoulders follow your eyes and your hands and hips follow your shoulders. When you have missed judged a turn and your going wider than you planned. Don't look at the parked car or pot hole. Look at where you want to go,it's a life saver and should actually be practiced so you realise how true it is. Take a corner on a flat faster than you would normal and see how much sharper you can take it by exaggerating you eye line inwards and notice how the bike follows your eyes. trusts and force your eye line in. Only through trusting the technique will it prevent you from hitting the breaks to save yourself. looking out for dust in the corner, that is a wipe out potential for sure. Choose the line that has the least or no dirt is always the safest. Weight on the out side pedal for maximum traction. This might be a whole section in its self. Can I over lean my bike if I apply more force or stand up hard on the outside peddle? Whats the optimum bike angel inward to body angle more upright with more weight over the outside pedal? 20 degrees, 15 degrees 10 degrees difference? depends on the wheels and tier pressure as well I bet. lets head on over to your other descending skills video and see if it says anything additional.
Also...if you have to scrub speed or brake in a corner, it's best to release the front brake and let the rear brake shoulder the work. This let's your front wheel spin freely to steer, giving you just a hint of oversteer to get you around the turn but not enough to make you lose control (you'll actually feel more in control). Holding the front brake midcorner will just increase understeer which will only make things worse and possibly make you crash.
Love going up hill and down hill!
Just the video I need. Crashed face first going downhill, need to build up me confidence
Hope you are okay now walterarama!
At the apex of a corner the brakes can put you down but they can't keep you up. If you get to that point and you haven't already slowed down enough you have no spare traction to brake with. If you get to that point and happen to be at 99% of the limit for going round it, then even a slight bit of braking will put you down when you would otherwise have stayed upright. Getting some scientific input to this kind of video from someone from say the world of Formula 1, who could explain the theory, would make it even better.
I find these two the best teachers at GCN.
Matt and Emma. The best GCN presenters ever. Miss you guys!
Another important thing to consider is the type of tire and wheel. When I used stock wheels that came with my bike, it felt sketchy around 40mph. Once I upgraded to better wheels, the traction felt solid and I was able to descend with confidence. When I switched back to the old wheels while the new wheels were in the shop to get trued, I immediately noticed how sketchy the stock wheels were on descents. If you plan to hit a down hill hard, make sure your tire isn't worn out.
Good road knowledge and traffic flow will help you understand the ‘braking points’ better~ I strongly recommend Schwalbe Durrano DD tires for training as they provide EXCELLENT traction/puncture resistance over many temps/surfaces. Tires are your only contact with the road-making them very important to select properly.
Those tires were just recalled for catastrophic blowout failures at high speeds.
I first started riding MTB and have been riding a road bike for 2 years now. I love going downhill on a road bike as fast as possible and it does not phase me. I think this comes from MTB it really improves your bike handling skills. If you are used to going downhill off road fast then a smooth road is a lot easier.
I've come from MTB, descending on a road bike scares the shit outta me!
i really love really decending...
slowly...
while enjoy scenery that i missed when climbing
"try to look towards where you want to ride" is IMHO the part that a lot of people don't seem to master. To that I would like to add:
1. If possible, well before the corner, glance far ahead for oncoming traffic.
2. Before you enter the corner, keep your eyes on a fixed distance (something like 30 meters) in front of you, on the line you want to ride, and keep the focus distance constant while cornering.
3. On a inside lane corner do not be tempted to focus on the road surface just ahead because you will end up on the outside lane, if there is a car coming ahead you're in big trouble!
Potholes, bumps and gravel on the road gave me a few near death experience during high speed descents, so be very careful with them. At autumn times, wet leaves on the road can be extremely slippery, just like ice.
Thanks for the tips! Descending is one skill with which I have not seen any progress in the seven years I've been cycling. Particularly, I learned to be on the drops and to look further down the road. Also I think some new rim break pads are in order to increase confidence. Cheers.
I use to descend slowly, twice as fast as I go uphill. Mainly because of the road surface, if it is good though, I'm turning the afterburners on. Also prefer descending on the hoods, I know it's not the best way, but I feel much more in control this way. Braking in the middle of the turn is something I do almost always, which is also not how it should be done, but when you're carriyng too much speed is necessary. It's important to be done gently however. Don't panic, loosen up a little and enjoy it.
OMG this show is dialed in!...just perfect! Matt as always, so good to see you, and Emma the fit is sublime, you are now a wonderful show fixture...
But I'm missing Otaahhhwaa...haha Dan's "Ottawa"...to laugh at oneself shows confidence and strength...where is Dan! where is Tom!
Thanks for the good tip GCN. I live in a quite flat area and really needed this tip. Matt and Emma togeather are the GCN dream team since they are true national champs!
Cheers Petinka!
Emma, I really like you as a presenter. You're a great addition to the GCN team and doing a great job. Keep it up!
Just picked up my first road bike -Specialized Allez Sport- and had a bit of a shocker trying to descend on it. We have a place on Mt Baldy so the roads are steep and switchbacks come at you quickly, but I felt zero in control of the bike being so high up on the seat with the bars so low (yes, I was fitted for the bike). I have been doing the same ride on a mountain bike and it's a no brainer. I also ride motorcycles so used to a quick descent. However, on the road bike, I felt out of my element 100%. Hopefully these videos will help with what is so intuitive on my other rides.
Nervous of cars that use both sides of road
When cycling in the mountains, I'm more nervous about cyclists that use both sides of the road to descend. At least cars can be easily heard.
Happens all the time to me so I make sure to never leave the lane. Done it only once when the surface was real wet. Glad nobody was coming or I'd be dead. I wish I could do something to the drivers who think they can hog the whole road and make the guy with the thin tires eat potholes, gravel and sand by the edge, but I'm not the one in the large vehicle.
In the rural area where I live that has lots of single or one and a half lane width roads the arseholes in their massive 4x4s drive round the lanes like there will never be anyone there. This is scary both on a bike and when I'm driving!
how could you hear anything when going downhill 80kmh on your road bike ?
Descending is scary! Well explained! Thank you! 🚴♀️
@4:41 Absolutely perfect timing lol
liked how the vid was made. For some reason i really liked the music used. Emma and Matt really work well together. Almost like brother and sister that haven't seen each other for a year or so
I’ve always been a little bit too comfortable on a Bike and even with descending. I’ll see a massive hill and just bomb it, all I see is the Adrenaline rush and go for it, just make sure my tires and brakes are in good shape, which I do before I ride and yeh , down we go.
Haven’t had a fall since I was 12, which I’m thankful for, some of those hills would have killed me
I just get so nervous. I keep climbing up the hill to train, then walking back down with the bike. Hopefully one day I'll learn not to be so afraid of crashing!
Emma, you are a top ascender and I am sure descender. I descend on the bar tops through years of habit. I am trying to learn to descend in the hooks or drops. I am incrementally changing my descending style but I'm fearful or uncomfortable with this new position. Any tips or pointers would be graciously appreciated.
Some good tips here.
Personally, I find concentrating on the guard rail (or rock face) on the inside of a right turn helpful (Not applicable to UK).
That doesn't work in left turns, so those are more tricky.
Also, the video doesn't talk much about "body english" - which seems to be more important with taller riders (I have to do a lot).
Currently in my fifth month in the Canary Islands, so getting lots of descending practice - and seeing some improvements.
I'm really enjoying Emma's contribution. She has good chemistry with all the presenters. Speaking of all the presenters, Where's Lasty?
Thanks Lorcan, he is still here!
The thing that has help me the most to overcome my fear of descending is following riders with more experience than myself. As long as I take my turns going up (and pick up the coffee tab from time to time) they are more than happy to help me out. I still get dropped, but I'm getting better and much more confident when I'm by myself.
Sounds great Mark!
Was a killer descender until I crashed going 40mph on a descent. Slowly building my skills back. First road race of the season is tomorrow so wish me luck!
Good information. Thank You 🚴♂️🚴🏼♀️🚵♂️🚵🏼♀️💖🙏💕
I gotta say I used to ride a mountain bike with the saddle as low as it will go and when I started getting into riding road bikes with an adjusted or lowered saddle going downhill it made me so much more aware of my weight distribution. First time I tried it I felt like I was fighting falling forward and I'm still trying to break the habit of lowering the seat before going downhill
make another one of this please GCN
Right Emma, look where you want to go. Just like skiing in the glades. If you look at the trees, you’ll hit them.
1:56 is the best advice
How about showing what to do to handle speed wobbles when descending fast?
Speed wobbles are a result of harmonic oscillation of the frame and the wheels. When that happens, either grip the top tube with your knees, or lean forward and put the weight over the front wheel. Main culprit of this is being tense; your arms should naturally damp out the vibrations. If you tense them up, they start to get aggravated.
Dan Legault the same as on a motorcycle, center and lower your weight into the bike ;)
Hey Dan, check out our video on speed wobble here th-cam.com/video/JVgjiB4Y6a0/w-d-xo.html
recently happened to me in the UK on a decent of a 10% ( toys hill in kent) it happened as I had slightly moved my
seat a few centimentres back, very scary, I got around the rest of the ride by keeping one foot straight down redistributing my weight, it worked OK although I have now set the seat back in the original position
"Speed wobbles" are a form of Hopf Bifurcation, a nonlinear instability, not an harmonic oscillation. A common example is the wobble of a grocery shopping cart wheel. The phenomenon has also been associated with train car derailments. The best discussion I have seen on the topic related to bicycles was several years ago on the Velonews.com website; Leonard Zinn offers an excellent presentation.
I can really, really recommend putting as much weight as possible on your outside leg and inside hand. It's so much more stable. It gave me lots more confidence on my motorcycle.
Such a good good video, delivered in the right way, I say this as someone who did have an accident and came off, and confidence has been shot since, and this is good sound advice.
Sorry to hear that John - hope you get it back steadily!
Keep feathering brother!
Thanks Emma and Matt, I’m going to use all of the advice to sort out my descending this year 👍
They’re not wise. Formula 1 drivers know way more stuff about cornering and decending and the rest. The designer of the bike knows more. They did the calculations. You need to talk to them not idiot riders who never went to uni.
These are fantastic tips. Thank you.
With the equipment, I recommend a good tire (hard case of some kind). If you're not worried about a flat at 40 mph, you will be more relaxed.
Yes it's always important to have faith in your equipment to stay relaxed!
Matt and Emma seem like really nicr persons i see the love for cycling in them. I'd love to meet the GCN crew!
Excellent - very helpful and beautifully produced.
Cheers, Glynn
Thanks guys - I live in Cape Town, and have just done the Cape Town Cycle Tour, so those long and intense downhills are still fresh in my mind - I will definitely be employing some of these techniques to become more confident on the downhills, and to attempt to improve my time, should I do it again next year.
when descending my body just kinda freezes, i can't get the full control of the bike so i had no choice but to slow down and let my brakes do the work.
Not bothered about going downhill but cars pulling out clears any constipation I had!
Some good tips. Great to have Emma join the gcn crew. Not just a women’s perspective, but another former pro cyclist and accomplished athlete. Also, are you guys using new camera gear? Picture quality, camera angles etc looking much better!
Great video - very candid and informative! Thanks!
Love descending, have hit 50mph a few times down the cairnwell (Glenshee) in Scotland. Was a bit windy one time, and the bike developed a rather nasty wobble/shimmy that seemed to get worse, to the point I thought I was going to get thrown off the bike. Was really tough to bring under control, and touching the brakes didn't help - if anything it made it worse. Thought it was a loose q/r skewer or headset, but everything on the bike was tight and to torque ... think I just had a freak set of circumstances that triggered the resonant frequency of the frame. Scary as hell at the time. What's the suggested method(s) for correcting this should it occur on a quick descent?
I had this too descending in the Pennines last weekend, couldn't avoid drift with the wind- and when I did try to hold my line the front end got twitchy. I thought that the wind was limiting my grip on the surface, just enough for the front end to go light and yes it was bit of a rush.
More weight on front wheel. That is so fast dude nice
I’ve gotten nervous and had the death wobble in the handlebars. Scared me into disliking descents. Trying to relax my chest and arms and remembering mental affirmations.
I miss Emma and Matt so much! :(
Leaning! Really helpful tip, thnx!