I was fireman that day. We were at the Bodmin railway to find out how to tackle an incline, ahead of the trip to the Looe Branch. When the vehicle is travelling with the boiler room at the back, as it is in this video, the fireman also looks after the cut-off and we were deliberately trying it with a very short cutoff to see what the vehicle could do. As you can see, it was a struggle, so at Looe, with its 1:35 incline from Coombe Junction up to Liskeard, we ran in full gear.
@@passengersplace No A steam engine rarely has any gears between the cylinders and wheels The term gear in this case refers to the valves or valve arrangement (Valve gear) In full gear steam from the boiler is let into the cylinder for the full distance of piston travel, as speed increases the amount of time the steam is admitted can be reduced (cut off) So what they were trying here was to find out the minimum amount of time steam was needed to be admitted to the cylinders without the locomotive stalling. The less steam you need to use the less coal and water you need.
interestingly enough you cant fire that thing on the run either, can only put on a charge when stationary so you need to be a pretty good fireman. add the steep grade and the curve and bam u got this video
@@jackx4311 because of how the draft works in a verticle boiler if you open the firebox doors while the force of the exhaust is pulling at the fire you'll just get blowback and end up getting burnt. Same rules apply going downhill as you still get draft from moving air through the dampers and the draft from the blower. When your stationery theres minimal draft that can burn you when you open the firebox doors
@@woobyvr9654 - many thanks for your clear explanation. I can now understand the earlier post from @Cheesatingjunglista as to why the Great Western used them between Kemble and Tetbury, but took them off the Gloucester to Chalford route. I fired LBSC Terriers on the Kent & E. Sussex some years back, and hated them, especially on the climb to Tenterden. The grate seemed about the size of the one in my parent's living room, and to keep the pressure up near the red line without blowing off, they had to be constantly fed with pin-point accuracy - and never even half a shovelful too much, or you'd black the fire out. Give me an SECR 'P' Class (or a Jinty) every time!
As a kid, at around 1:47, I would have shouted, *_"Get off and milk it!",_* and then cheered enthusiastically as it finally picked up speed and passed close by.
Know the engine well from Didcot Rail centre. Travelled in it many times. It is not at all heavy. Interesting though. I'll mention this performance next time I'm in Didcot.
From a century back there is a story of the last train of the day on the Cairn Valley Light Railway from Dumfries running out of steam a mile or so from the terminus at Moniaive. It was Gala Week in Dumfries, and those aboard, including the footplate staff, had been enjoying themselves in the hosteries. When the train ground to a stop, the merry band of crew and passengers decided to walk the final stretch along the track in the dark singing as they went. The train crew nipped back in the morning relit the fire and got the train back into the station ready for the day's first service.
Routes like Kemble - Tetbury - ie pretty flat and low traffic were OK for em. Later replaced by auto, then deisel railcar before the demise of the GWR, steep hills never really an option - they failed on the Glos - Chalford route and were replaced by tank engined auto's
This section is 1 in 42 which is not the steepest section on the Bodmin and Wenford Railway. Both the Boscarne and Parkway lines have sections that are 1 in 37. The sections where the lines are 1 in 37 are on straighter track with a 25mph speed limit. The issue here is that this curve is very sharp and the train has to slow down to 5mph as it comes into Bodmin General station. The signal coming into General may have also been set to danger as the train reached it so the train would have had to stop which wouldn't have helped.
Sharp curve adds to the resistance to movement on a gradient, because the wheels being the same diameter want to go straight ahead but the flanges rub on the outer rail and the inner check rail, forcing the wheels to slip slightly to get around the curve, which soaks up power. But this demonstrates one of the main features of a steam engine compared to diesel - as speed reduces, the available torque gets greater. So as the resistance get greater, the engine just slows down until the torque available overcomes the resistance. It has the same effect of changing down a gear with a combustion engine, but without the need to actually change gear! The harder the climb, the slower it goes - but it still just "gets there in the end" as long as the adhesion limit isn't breached causing the wheels to slip. That's why a steam engine doesn't need a gearbox or an electric or hydraulic transmission like a diesel does, the diesel engine having a very limited speed range. Nice video!
In our India the steam engines are a history. All the engines are now dumped in scrap shape. Very few can be seen outside Railway Stations. But to travel in train with steam engine must be interesting. White and black smoke all around must be funny. Thanks to foreign countries keeping this alive and people who travel with them. Balvinder Verma Jalandhar Punjab India
Didn't hear any wheel slip, so well done driver! At the time it was made, the passengers were probably not as well fed as the lot in there now seem to be. : ) Wonder why the traction wheels aren't first so that it is already on the flattening section when the cars are on the final, steepest section?
Under power the tendency is to 'sit back' so that more adhesion is where the power is. In snow etc, a front-wheel drive car climbs hills better in reverse [been there, done that].
If the problem is lack of steam ,how about supplementary oil firing. Has this ever been tried on a coal fired steam loco? The loco would still mostly burn coal, with oil additionally burnt only when a bit more steam is required, ascending long gradients for example.
An interesting thing with these railmotors is that due to the compactness off the engine unit, it can only be fired safely while stationary, so the fireman has to build up his fire at a station and hope it's good enough to last to the next one
A vid thst tells the truth - heck!! If Ripley"s Believe it or Not was a thing and Jack Palance was still alive they'd be coming out with a film crew to do a short piece. At the end of the Jack would read, "TH-cam vid poster tells the truth in a video title - Believe it, or Not............" Miss Jack.
@@g.stephens263 He was a great comedic actor too. There was an off beat English language German film set in the Mojave desert film called Bagdad Cafe (no 'h'). Check it out. Those stupid films, City Slickers never cease to raise the spirits.The Ron Howard film Night Shift amuses me similarly and they say Americans can't make good humour - I disagree.
I know it's an old vehicle, but that is either one steep curve, one fully packed steam carriage, or one very underpowered one, or a combination of the three. In any case, it's no wonder that Britain abandoned this first, if impractical, attempt at a railbus, or MU without a mate.
The videographer could have cut out the first minute or a while third of this vid. A lot of poor build up and weak 'suspense'. OMG: will she make it???? 'I think I can'.
@@joferguson7I don't know about you but a large fraction of our lines are not hilly. The ones that ARE hilly needed a different treatment. Smaller driving wheels for example. So you need to ask " for what lines was this railmotor originally intended"?
Seems pretty unimpressive for a machine supposed to rank, along with the Lancashire and Yorkshire design, as the most effective steam rail motor. Even a tiny Brighton Railway A1x would do very much better.
Yes, but was the L&Y thing on a 1/40 with a fully packed train, with provision for an autotrailer? I think not! Also, of course the terrier is more powerful, these weren’t designed for power, they were designed to be self propelled coaches and nothing more. Also, apparently the fireman was testing the minimum cutoff required to climb steep gradients, so thats probably the main reason of why it was struggling so much :)
Great footage thanks for sharing.Loved the battle of uphill
I was fireman that day. We were at the Bodmin railway to find out how to tackle an incline, ahead of the trip to the Looe Branch. When the vehicle is travelling with the boiler room at the back, as it is in this video, the fireman also looks after the cut-off and we were deliberately trying it with a very short cutoff to see what the vehicle could do. As you can see, it was a struggle, so at Looe, with its 1:35 incline from Coombe Junction up to Liskeard, we ran in full gear.
Awesome job avoiding the stall on that challenge. Well played.
Full gear? Is the steam engine connected to the wheels via a shiftable transmission?
@@passengersplace No A steam engine rarely has any gears between the cylinders and wheels The term gear in this case refers to the valves or valve arrangement (Valve gear) In full gear steam from the boiler is let into the cylinder for the full distance of piston travel, as speed increases the amount of time the steam is admitted can be reduced (cut off) So what they were trying here was to find out the minimum amount of time steam was needed to be admitted to the cylinders without the locomotive stalling. The less steam you need to use the less coal and water you need.
Wow!--talk about an action-packed video!!
Is this sarcastic?
🤣
The foliage is in action! Stop moaning.
What did you expect from the title?
I like the sound
The little engine that could and did 😊😇
Yeah... That is quite an incline up to Bodmin. Lovely Railmotor, lovingly restored.
Pretty cool steam rail car, all self contained!!
The crew managed to avoid a stall, kudos. What a fantastic piece of preserved equipment.
just not enough steam pressure from such a small boiler! Amazing sight though, one I have never before seen!
interestingly enough you cant fire that thing on the run either, can only put on a charge when stationary so you need to be a pretty good fireman. add the steep grade and the curve and bam u got this video
@@woobyvr9654 - I didn't know you couldn't fire them when running; can you tell me why that is, please?
@@jackx4311 because of how the draft works in a verticle boiler if you open the firebox doors while the force of the exhaust is pulling at the fire you'll just get blowback and end up getting burnt.
Same rules apply going downhill as you still get draft from moving air through the dampers and the draft from the blower. When your stationery theres minimal draft that can burn you when you open the firebox doors
@@woobyvr9654 - many thanks for your clear explanation. I can now understand the earlier post from @Cheesatingjunglista as to why the Great Western used them between Kemble and Tetbury, but took them off the Gloucester to Chalford route.
I fired LBSC Terriers on the Kent & E. Sussex some years back, and hated them, especially on the climb to Tenterden. The grate seemed about the size of the one in my parent's living room, and to keep the pressure up near the red line without blowing off, they had to be constantly fed with pin-point accuracy - and never even half a shovelful too much, or you'd black the fire out. Give me an SECR 'P' Class (or a Jinty) every time!
Sweet machine! Thanks for sharing
1 in 40 and a steep curve is tough!
@Aussie Pom Wow. 5 1/4% is kinda criminal. Or, it should be. ;-)
As a kid, at around 1:47, I would have shouted, *_"Get off and milk it!",_* and then cheered enthusiastically as it finally picked up speed and passed close by.
That sound!!! Wow!!!
Amazing stack bark for a smaller machine.
This is why auto trains replaced railmotors. Not enough grunt.
Know the engine well from Didcot Rail centre. Travelled in it many times. It is not at all heavy. Interesting though. I'll mention this performance next time I'm in Didcot.
Never seen this before that’s pretty cool
Sounds like not as much power, still sweet.
From Spike Milligan's 'Puckoon'...First class passengers will be conveyed onwards by private car; third class can get out and push.
From a century back there is a story of the last train of the day on the Cairn Valley Light Railway from Dumfries running out of steam a mile or so from the terminus at Moniaive. It was Gala Week in Dumfries, and those aboard, including the footplate staff, had been enjoying themselves in the hosteries. When the train ground to a stop, the merry band of crew and passengers decided to walk the final stretch along the track in the dark singing as they went. The train crew nipped back in the morning relit the fire and got the train back into the station ready for the day's first service.
Lots of patience needed here! But worth the wait. First of Andy's I've seen. I'll be back for more!! Definite Thumbs up!
Cold all passengers please help by getting out and pushing!!!
Routes like Kemble - Tetbury - ie pretty flat and low traffic were OK for em. Later replaced by auto, then deisel railcar before the demise of the GWR, steep hills never really an option - they failed on the Glos - Chalford route and were replaced by tank engined auto's
I think I can,I think I can
Trouble making steam so low boiler pressure. You can hear the blower is hard on.
Isn't this one of the steepest gradients in the country? Drive up the road from Bodmin Parkway to Bodmin and realize how steep the line is.
This section is 1 in 42 which is not the steepest section on the Bodmin and Wenford Railway. Both the Boscarne and Parkway lines have sections that are 1 in 37. The sections where the lines are 1 in 37 are on straighter track with a 25mph speed limit. The issue here is that this curve is very sharp and the train has to slow down to 5mph as it comes into Bodmin General station. The signal coming into General may have also been set to danger as the train reached it so the train would have had to stop which wouldn't have helped.
An astonishing survivor. I think 🤔 the cylinders and valve gear design was used on the Vale of Rheidol 2-6-2s.
With the exception of the coach body, its all built new...
That driver didn't slip it at all!
I think I can, I know I can!
Sharp curve adds to the resistance to movement on a gradient, because the wheels being the same diameter want to go straight ahead but the flanges rub on the outer rail and the inner check rail, forcing the wheels to slip slightly to get around the curve, which soaks up power.
But this demonstrates one of the main features of a steam engine compared to diesel - as speed reduces, the available torque gets greater. So as the resistance get greater, the engine just slows down until the torque available overcomes the resistance. It has the same effect of changing down a gear with a combustion engine, but without the need to actually change gear! The harder the climb, the slower it goes - but it still just "gets there in the end" as long as the adhesion limit isn't breached causing the wheels to slip. That's why a steam engine doesn't need a gearbox or an electric or hydraulic transmission like a diesel does, the diesel engine having a very limited speed range.
Nice video!
I had no idea there were selectable gear ratios on diesels. Very informative piece that you wrote.
That is a really long leadin with nothing but weeds blowing in the wind.
In our India the steam engines are a history. All the engines are now dumped in scrap shape.
Very few can be seen outside Railway Stations.
But to travel in train with steam engine must be interesting. White and black smoke all around must be funny.
Thanks to foreign countries keeping this alive and people who travel with them.
Balvinder Verma Jalandhar Punjab India
Neat little train ,now need to see more
Excellent 🤩🤩🤩🤩
Didn't hear any wheel slip, so well done driver! At the time it was made, the passengers were probably not as well fed as the lot in there now seem to be. : ) Wonder why the traction wheels aren't first so that it is already on the flattening section when the cars are on the final, steepest section?
Under power the tendency is to 'sit back' so that more adhesion is where the power is. In snow etc, a front-wheel drive car climbs hills better in reverse [been there, done that].
Has it enough power to wheel slip?
@@EllieMaes-Grandad Yes because more weight is being transfered to the front, holding the drive wheels down harder.
@@bonkeydollocks1879 Wheel slip isnt just caused by excess power, but also by the track conditions and the load.
@@neildeakin4454 your teaching your granny to suck eggs here pal
Would the lower quality of modern coal have made a difference, given the small firebox?
OOOO That's interesting - and she has no tail load either!
Never in doubt ...............
Someone really had to shovel there 😲
Begins at 1.00
I think I can. I think I can. I think I can. I knew I could. I knew I could
Poor little thing.
My thought exactly….I was almost in tears
Agreed, I think I can, I (wheeze) think (wheeze) I can. Sounds like me getting out of bed in the morning...
Running to a weekly timetable?
Stick a 750volt third rail in, no problems lol
Or use a Pacer 🤣 .... that's a joke before anyone says anything.... Still I know which I'd rather be on, and it's not the Pacer!
Super. 💙 T.E.N.
It got there! It didn't give up! It thought it could! It hoped it could! It knew it could!.....And it got there!
Based on this video, I can only assume these were primarily used in the flat country?
4mm model in production [soon] by Kernow M R C - look 'em up.
Hence diesels
Where is this?
What % grade is that?
2.5% (1 in 40).
If the problem is lack of steam ,how about supplementary oil firing. Has this ever been tried on a coal fired steam loco? The loco would still mostly burn coal, with oil additionally burnt only when a bit more steam is required, ascending long gradients for example.
They generally require massively different fire grates. Though on a loco this small, the maximum burn rate will be easily matched by the fireman.
An interesting thing with these railmotors is that due to the compactness off the engine unit, it can only be fired safely while stationary, so the fireman has to build up his fire at a station and hope it's good enough to last to the next one
"I think I can, I think I can, I think I can.....
Needs the boiler looked at 🤪
@Wasatch I think the most perfectly adjusted valves I've ever heard on a steam engine!
If it gets any slower on that bend it will start sucking the smoke back in
What county is this in?
Couldn't the passengers help by pushing?
Their doctors had forbidden it, so no. ;)
@@godzillahomer completely understandable
I would have wanted to get out and walk ahead, just to help out.
A vid thst tells the truth - heck!! If Ripley"s Believe it or Not was a thing and Jack Palance was still alive they'd be coming out with a film crew to do a short piece. At the end of the Jack would read, "TH-cam vid poster tells the truth in a video title - Believe it, or Not............"
Miss Jack.
The scariest guy in the movies! Always had the look of a bubbling psychcotic break just waiting to erupt! Great actor!
@@g.stephens263 He was a great comedic actor too. There was an off beat English language German film set in the Mojave desert film called Bagdad Cafe (no 'h').
Check it out. Those stupid films, City Slickers never cease to raise the spirits.The Ron Howard film Night Shift amuses me similarly and they say Americans can't make good humour - I disagree.
Quicker to walk…
Get out and push!
I know it's an old vehicle, but that is either one steep curve, one fully packed steam carriage, or one very underpowered one, or a combination of the three. In any case, it's no wonder that Britain abandoned this first, if impractical, attempt at a railbus, or MU without a mate.
The videographer could have cut out the first minute or a while third of this vid. A lot of poor build up and weak 'suspense'. OMG: will she make it???? 'I think I can'.
People had plenty of time in them days. Not like the youth of today. Eh Wilf? Nuther cuppa? Aye.
Wasn't built for hills
AEC what’s the point then
@@joferguson7I don't know about you but a large fraction of our lines are not hilly. The ones that ARE hilly needed a different treatment. Smaller driving wheels for example. So you need to ask " for what lines was this railmotor originally intended"?
smitajky okay thanks.I only mainly focus aus C’s, SSR’s, and many others.
@@joferguson7 it wasn't built for this line just visiting.
@@smitajky commuter lines.
Changing down might have helped !!!!!!!
Adjusting the cut-off?
Pfftt Whats the fuss, piece of cake, never actually ground to a halt,
Wants to change down!
Seems pretty unimpressive for a machine supposed to rank, along with the Lancashire and Yorkshire design, as the most effective steam rail motor. Even a tiny Brighton Railway A1x would do very much better.
Yes, but was the L&Y thing on a 1/40 with a fully packed train, with provision for an autotrailer? I think not! Also, of course the terrier is more powerful, these weren’t designed for power, they were designed to be self propelled coaches and nothing more. Also, apparently the fireman was testing the minimum cutoff required to climb steep gradients, so thats probably the main reason of why it was struggling so much :)
Just need to approach and that hill with a little speed on … basic physics that’s all …
Struggel? Its only slow ...