For me it's the opposite. Kanji carries my comprehension sometimes cuz even words I'm not super familiar with make sense thanks to the kanji clues. Then I start doing no-subtitle listening and suddenly I gotta rely on context a lot more and don't have clues on unknown words 😭 Funnily though it's kinda the opposite in the beginning where the listening with subtitles helps me learn kanji as I hear the word and see what kanji it's composed of.
@@opolo704 Kanji definitely do have that kind of an effect. They disconnect what you hear from what you read, but do give a bit of extra info to what you read, so you can deduce what you just stumbled upon from a different aspect of stuff you've read than with phonetic writing. But the reading-listening disconnect is real. I'm the biggest kanji hater in the world, but they do have some benefits. The benefits sadly also come with inordinate costs and especially for Japanese just the most insane writing system in the world. But they definitely aren't ALL downside. Just mostly. (Someone take them behind the shed and pull the trigger, please)
3:45 I agree with you. When I'm watching a show or video in English and I hear a sentence with 3 unknown words (plus slurring) I just move on. Besides, those words are usually very rare and I feel I don't need them to follow the plot.
I’ve started doing intensive listening, with content that I’ve already watched with subtitles before. I don’t know if it’s better to prime your brain like that. Maybe while starting out.
To me it seems unnecessarily tedious and like it would take the fun out of immersing. I’ve never done the whole pausing thing, or really many lookups, maybe 15-20 over the course of ~800 hours yet I’ve gone from knowing almost nothing except for some random vocabulary words from HS to watching over 2 hours of native Minecraft last night with between 95 - 100% comprehension depending on the part of the video. If something is too fast or has a lot of unknown words I just watch something easier and then come back to it later. Last night I came back to an Argentinian true crime channel, dinosaur vlogs, that I had tried a few months ago and found too difficult. Now she’s very comfortable for me and all I did in between was watch content regularly just like I would in English.
Being able to do what you are doing in this demonstration what level would you consider a person is at in their language learning journey? I’ve been doing refold for 3 and a half years now studying Japanese. I can’t pin point my level of progress which would be great to know for myself and confidence. Thank you 🙏🏼
It's really hard to give a specific number or answer to these sorts of questions. But I'd say something along the lines of "50% of the way to functional fluency." But every person and case is very different. If you can do what I did, that means you're making great progress in the language and should be able to easily continue immersing and making progress. I hope that helps a little! Sorry it's not a perfect answer. - Ben
does pausing after a sentence I don't fully understand and looking up words count as intensive immersion rather than pausing a line and seeing if I understood it? my listening is by far my strongest skill and reading alone makes me have to process the language a bit and sometimes a lot harder can I do that instead to improve my listening skills as well?
I did the intensive listener for 2 months without no depot, popular enough and I feel a bit good because I invested a lot of time and I didn't understand nothing but I tried again but with the vocabulary enough. And I reached a level very high because right now. These texts, I'm doing it with my voice. And if you're very comfortable speaking in english like I would be speaking in my native language. If you want to do the intensive listening fears are sure to know a lot of vocabulary minimum 2000 or 3000 In order to understand the most content. After that, you will start to speak without any problem. Because it's incredible, but after that you have to practice you speaking in order to improve you Pronunciation in the language I'm doing this texts with my voice without any problem It's incredible it is as I would be speaking in my native language. Assure to invest minimum 5000 hours in the language After that, you will start understand the most content An advice for you try to recognize its the sounds not to be focused and the Words Just to be focused and recognize the pronunciation of war , for barely its pronunciation is verly Or though vs thoughts Zdou ztdouts
You know, I feel like dilematic For example, when I'm listening and look to the subtitle,my concentration is divided, but if I only focused on listening i can't got the word that i didn't know
Saying "Kdybys byl dobrej herec, tak bych ti to možná i věřila." In the VocabSieve window showing "Nejsi dobrý herec, nevěřím ti." Subtitle VS audio discrepancy?
Yeah, this happens with most languages pretty often. Subs are usually done to fit better on screen, be faster to read or to be more natural. It's impossible to make subtitles that match up 100% with audio (since people talk at the same time, they use tone of voice, talk in accents, maybe cut to voice over, etc). But it's not usually a problem for language learning. It's annoying sometimes when you hear a word you want to look up, but it's not in the subtitles, but it's not the end of the world.
This activity is what helps you convert that reading to listening ability. It's very, very common for learners to NOT be able to hear words that they actually know. This is how you can solve that problem. Plus, when you hear a new word, it's actually very rare that that word is able to be inferred through immersion. Especially when it's the critical word in a sentence. So looking up words in a dictionary is what you should do in that case. - Ben
@@Refold I don’t understand what you mean hear about it being rare to be able to infer the meaning of a word though listening. That’s literally how I’ve learned Spanish to the level of being able to watch native content. For nearly 800 hours I’ve done no intensive listening and almost no lookups and yet I went from not even being able to understand 1 spoken sentence to watching over 2 hours of native Minecraft last night. Some of that was audiovisual of course, but I started adding in audio only content at around 30 hours and I’ve learned plenty of vocabulary solely through listening with no dictionary or even visual clues.
@@TheOneChannelToRuleThemAll You have to understand that your singular experience isn't necessarily the norm. Most people do not learn language as quickly or thoroughly as you do. It's great news for you, though!
Very cool ! With a friend, we are building TH-cam to Anki converter to improve our listening comprehension, would love to show you our work in progress to get your feedback
Thanks for the video, now I got the difference between both intensive reading and listening
Can't understand without subtitles? More like can't understand subtitles. _cries in Japanese student_
Do this then! th-cam.com/video/9KlwmHXsXhQ/w-d-xo.html
- Ben
For me it's the opposite. Kanji carries my comprehension sometimes cuz even words I'm not super familiar with make sense thanks to the kanji clues. Then I start doing no-subtitle listening and suddenly I gotta rely on context a lot more and don't have clues on unknown words 😭 Funnily though it's kinda the opposite in the beginning where the listening with subtitles helps me learn kanji as I hear the word and see what kanji it's composed of.
@@opolo704 Kanji definitely do have that kind of an effect. They disconnect what you hear from what you read, but do give a bit of extra info to what you read, so you can deduce what you just stumbled upon from a different aspect of stuff you've read than with phonetic writing. But the reading-listening disconnect is real.
I'm the biggest kanji hater in the world, but they do have some benefits. The benefits sadly also come with inordinate costs and especially for Japanese just the most insane writing system in the world. But they definitely aren't ALL downside. Just mostly.
(Someone take them behind the shed and pull the trigger, please)
Thanks Ben!
3:45 I agree with you. When I'm watching a show or video in English and I hear a sentence with 3 unknown words (plus slurring) I just move on. Besides, those words are usually very rare and I feel I don't need them to follow the plot.
I’ve started doing intensive listening, with content that I’ve already watched with subtitles before. I don’t know if it’s better to prime your brain like that. Maybe while starting out.
It's great for starting out! But sooner or later, you're going to want to push yourself out of your comfort zone to really improve your listening.
this information is beneficiaries.
To me it seems unnecessarily tedious and like it would take the fun out of immersing. I’ve never done the whole pausing thing, or really many lookups, maybe 15-20 over the course of ~800 hours yet I’ve gone from knowing almost nothing except for some random vocabulary words from HS to watching over 2 hours of native Minecraft last night with between 95 - 100% comprehension depending on the part of the video. If something is too fast or has a lot of unknown words I just watch something easier and then come back to it later. Last night I came back to an Argentinian true crime channel, dinosaur vlogs, that I had tried a few months ago and found too difficult. Now she’s very comfortable for me and all I did in between was watch content regularly just like I would in English.
This is helpful, thank you!
Being able to do what you are doing in this demonstration what level would you consider a person is at in their language learning journey? I’ve been doing refold for 3 and a half years now studying Japanese. I can’t pin point my level of progress which would be great to know for myself and confidence. Thank you 🙏🏼
It's really hard to give a specific number or answer to these sorts of questions. But I'd say something along the lines of "50% of the way to functional fluency." But every person and case is very different.
If you can do what I did, that means you're making great progress in the language and should be able to easily continue immersing and making progress.
I hope that helps a little! Sorry it's not a perfect answer.
- Ben
That’s actually helpful information coming from someone who is teaching the method. Thanks!
Hey, is there something like the simple roadmap on the refold website but put into video format?
Not currently, but something like that will (hopefully) be coming out this year!
does pausing after a sentence I don't fully understand and looking up words count as intensive immersion rather than pausing a line and seeing if I understood it? my listening is by far my strongest skill and reading alone makes me have to process the language a bit and sometimes a lot harder can I do that instead to improve my listening skills as well?
I did the intensive listener for 2 months without no depot, popular enough and I feel a bit good because I invested a lot of time and I didn't understand nothing but I tried again but with the vocabulary enough. And I reached a level very high because right now. These texts, I'm doing it with my voice. And if you're very comfortable speaking in english like I would be speaking in my native language.
If you want to do the intensive listening fears are sure to know a lot of vocabulary minimum 2000 or 3000 In order to understand the most content.
After that, you will start to speak without any problem. Because it's incredible, but after that you have to practice you speaking in order to improve you Pronunciation in the language I'm doing this texts with my voice without any problem It's incredible it is as I would be speaking in my native language.
Assure to invest minimum 5000 hours in the language After that, you will start understand the most content An advice for you try to recognize its the sounds not to be focused and the Words Just to be focused and recognize the pronunciation of war , for barely its pronunciation is verly
Or though vs thoughts
Zdou ztdouts
Perhaps I made mistakes because i did it with my voice😂 but It's understandable.
You know, I feel like dilematic
For example, when I'm listening and look to the subtitle,my concentration is divided, but if I only focused on listening i can't got the word that i didn't know
Saying "Kdybys byl dobrej herec, tak bych ti to možná i věřila." In the VocabSieve window showing "Nejsi dobrý herec, nevěřím ti." Subtitle VS audio discrepancy?
Yeah, this happens with most languages pretty often. Subs are usually done to fit better on screen, be faster to read or to be more natural. It's impossible to make subtitles that match up 100% with audio (since people talk at the same time, they use tone of voice, talk in accents, maybe cut to voice over, etc).
But it's not usually a problem for language learning. It's annoying sometimes when you hear a word you want to look up, but it's not in the subtitles, but it's not the end of the world.
If you understand well with subs on, isn't it better to just do more listening? Dictionary should assist only reading component immersion.
This activity is what helps you convert that reading to listening ability. It's very, very common for learners to NOT be able to hear words that they actually know. This is how you can solve that problem.
Plus, when you hear a new word, it's actually very rare that that word is able to be inferred through immersion. Especially when it's the critical word in a sentence. So looking up words in a dictionary is what you should do in that case.
- Ben
@@Refold I don’t understand what you mean hear about it being rare to be able to infer the meaning of a word though listening. That’s literally how I’ve learned Spanish to the level of being able to watch native content. For nearly 800 hours I’ve done no intensive listening and almost no lookups and yet I went from not even being able to understand 1 spoken sentence to watching over 2 hours of native Minecraft last night. Some of that was audiovisual of course, but I started adding in audio only content at around 30 hours and I’ve learned plenty of vocabulary solely through listening with no dictionary or even visual clues.
@@TheOneChannelToRuleThemAll You have to understand that your singular experience isn't necessarily the norm. Most people do not learn language as quickly or thoroughly as you do. It's great news for you, though!
@@devinoverman7497 literally hundreds of thousands of people learn this way with Dreaming Spanish and other CI platforms/channels. It’s very “normal”.
Very cool ! With a friend, we are building TH-cam to Anki converter to improve our listening comprehension, would love to show you our work in progress to get your feedback