MLM: Are make-up empires exploiting mums? BBC Stories
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- Journalist Ellie Flynn goes undercover to investigate a multi-billion pound online selling industry that mostly targets young women with the opportunity to earn big money. The phenomenon known as 'multi-level marketing' is sweeping across social media as beautiful 'influencers' post job adverts offering the chance of six-figure incomes in return for selling products online. But as Ellie digs deeper into two companies, Younique and Nu Skin, she uncovers a darker side behind these enticing Instagram posts. In search of answers and accountability from these billion-dollar companies, Ellie's investigation takes her all the way to Utah, USA, and the heart of The Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - the Mormons - where many of these companies are based.
#mlm #multilevelmarketing #nuskin
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We BBC Stories, are a bunch of journalists making films, long and short, with the younger audience (18-24) in mind. The idea is to tackle issues which concern and impact this group of people. So think about anything from race and identity to mental health, money and much more.
We used to call these “Pyramid Schemes”
Pyramid schemes are a type of MLM, I believe
@@twylabobette2012 th-cam.com/video/SBGfHk91Vrk/w-d-xo.html
Plz watch this...
Then there is our beloved Congress. and things like Social Unsecurity.
They're legally different. To be called a pyramid scheme, the business model must be for the top level to intentionally and primarily make their money from membership fees or incentives to sign up other members. If they're selling a product and the profit comes from the product, a MLM can't be called a pyramid scheme. In practice though, and as this investigation covers, a lot of the "sold product" is actually bought by the sellers instead of customers, and higher-ups get a lot of kickbacks for signing people up under them. A lot of MLMs will sue people/programs that call them pyramid schemes unless they've been ruled a pyramid scheme in court.
@@colormecaptivated Having a product is just a way to jump through the legal loophole of how pyramid schemes are defined. Its sad.
That's why Norway restricts any business that has a model of recruiting other individuals to do over 50% of the sales.
Isaiah Lali Always the Scandinavian countries with the sanity.
It is amazing how common sense that is, yet if you tried that shit in North America you would have people screaming about how Stalin's ghost is taking over the country.
Go Norway and Finland
Don’t fall for these countries “perfection” they have crazy high of unmasked depression
Are you serious? Then can you explain to me the mlm Norwex. No one is talking about this one. Its literally from there. "Norway Experience".
When it’s too risky to share your identity, you know you’re in a cult.
OR Your into DRAMA, and looking to blame someone else for your utter failings!
TheTuesday11 lol are you bored?
Are you saying that any tech worker is actually in a cult? They don't feel comfortable talking out against their employer publicly. What worker does?
I don't believe in Mormonism, but this seems a biased show
@@truth.speaker You must not have LDS Church members in your family. Truth is the LDS Church is a MLM religion.
I have done Younique and Mary Kay. I haven't had the personal experiences I've heard in this video
“MLM” is just a new fancy way of saying Pyramid Scheme
@@Sputterbug how is calling it a pyramid scheme ghetto?
@@DelphineTheWorstBladeEver r/woooosh
The phrase "pyramid scheme" got a negative connotation, so they changed to "multilevel marketing" to make it sound better. Now MLM has a negative connotation, so many MLM's don't use that term and instead call it "network marketing." What's even funnier is how some of them are trying to get away from the pyramid model and are now using the "snowflake" model. But it's still the same old pyramid, they just shifted some of the points on the diagram around.
Military wives are also notorious for getting suckered into this.
And yoga instructors. I haven't met a yoga instructor yet that wasn't selling Dotera or Herbalife
Nobody gets “suckered in”. You make your own decision after hopefully doing your homework first.
@@nancyv3498 That's ideal, but sadly not how cults work. I just saw a High School friend of mine get sucked in to one recently and she's extremely smart. We were in AP classes together, she has a thriving dental practice and is quite successful, but somehow didn't even know that Rodan + Fields used to be owned by Estee Lauder when it was sold in department stores, so she's clearly not done any homework on the company at all. Whatsoever. She's just buying all the propaganda hook line and sinker from the overly enthusiastic crowd of sycophantic "upline distributors" that has surrounded her and drowned everything else out. I can only hope she comes to her senses before she loses too much money on it.
Eric Nelson My mom's a Mormon military wife, so I'm pretty relieved she never fell for these.
Isaac Riley i was mormon and grew up on a military base. so many of the people in that church were pushing mlms. when you fall for one cult it’s easy to get suckered into another
Hey BBC, can you please change your ad settings? There was literally an ad for an MLM for this video.
TH-cam Member ads are generally personalized, from my understanding, from your google account. So, for example, if you search for dog toys on google, chances are you will get ads for them here. Clear out your settings in your account as well as any cookies/history in your browser and it will go back to being just random.
If you have a gmail account, you can check your settings from there very easily. Not sure if you can do it from the TH-cam settings. It pertains to the setting that asks if google can track you.
If I remember correctly, the organizations placing the ads can also specify what for what target market and what kind of videos their ads run on.
That happens on every video I watch about MLMs, even on the reddit post videos for r/anti-mlm
I believe advertisers set their ads to be displayed before/during videos that may be related to the product. Dunno how they judge that but I imagine it is through the title. I dunno, I didn't get an ad this time.
aha its a good think at least they are paying for a vid criticising them
Sounds like all the components of an abusive relationship
mormonism or MLM's? cuz yes
@@Fatherhoodoutdoors I STUDIED YEARS AGO BIBLE WITH JEHOVAH WITNESSES FOR A YEAR AND WAS CUSTOMER AND REP FOR A WHILE DURING CERTAIN TIME FOR AVON AND ORIFLAME LEFT IT BECAUSE IS LIKE A CULT ONLY WANT YOU TO MAKE SALES AND VISITING PLACES TO LEAVE THE CATALOGUES WITH YOUR CODE AND PHONE NUMBRE IF DON´T MAKE SALES OR HAVE CONTACTS THEN CANCEL YOUR ACCOUNT. I NEVER BOUGHT ANY AGAIN SINCE THAT.
Those at the bottom are being used to keep those at the top rich. They’re only your friend while you’re making them money. Not one minute longer.
Exactly my experience of MLM.
Then climb to the top, no one is stopping them but themselves
@@TheTuesday11 that's not how it works. You will literally run out of people to recruit, even quicker for a make up mlm since around half of adults dont wear it
@@GotWrackspurts that is the great lie of capitalism
Linda Hanson I had a fall out with a girl from the church who befriended me only to sell her products and stop talking to me when I cancel the membership
I had a friend who is largely involved with Lula roe. As soon as the debit card was swiped she stopped talking to me before i even left her home.
After this experience, i swore off all mlm friends.
C Howard Vice actually made a video about them, check it out it’s super unsettling
My therapist's office is right across the street from the Younique HQ. I've always wondered about those giant creepy faces on the windows...haha
I’m really glad that the criticism of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints was focused on the culture and not the doctrine. As an active member, I have many problems with “Mormon culture”. I enjoy watching videos talking about different aspects of my religion but most of the criticisms I end up seeing are directed towards the doctrine and not the culture (which is usually the reason for the criticism).
Josephine Bournes I agree. It is important to think critically about the things you believe in and how/where you got those beliefs.
At the time of my comment, I was trying to find videos criticizing the culture of my church but the only videos I could find were centered around the doctrine. It was very frustrating for me. When I showed my appreciation of this video, that frustration was channeled into “defending” the doctrine I believe in.
I didn’t intend to make it seem like the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is something that shouldn’t be criticized but I understand how my phrasing would lead you to that conclusion.
Hello. My name is Elder Price. And I would like to share with you this most amazing makeup.
😂😂😂 Best comment!
More like elder Cunningham with all the lies 😉
😂😂😂😂😂
Perfection
"Make up a contact list of everyone you know and contact them about xyd" 😂😂😂yeah right!!!
I was with an MLM for years and nearly lost my marriage because of it. They make you feel guilty when you lose your rank and make you feel like your not good enough. I lived my life on social media and devoted so much time to recruiting recruiting recruiting that sucked up time from my young kids. Late nights and early mornings. I was in a constant state of anxiety of what to post next. Getting rid of social media and my business was the best decision I have ever made. Relationships with my kids and spouse far outweigh my rank and how many ‘friends’ I had on social media.
Do you all actually believe in what you're selling?
Mary Kay cosmetics, and Amway are the original MLMs. They are not based in Utah. All MLMs hurt relationships, so many of those who have really succeeded do not sell to family. These can make a lot of money for people who are truly gifted salesmen/women, but for the average person it's a financial Black hole waiting to happen. And don't kid yourself...women who are really successful in these businesses are NOT staying at home with their kids. They are working their backsides off 24/7!
DoTerra and YoungLiving Oils are also both MLMs started by LDS members with sketchy backgrounds and located in Utah. People born and raised in high-control groups like the LDS Church easily fall victim to these also-high-control MLMs. (See the B.I.T.E. model about high-control groups).
- Resident of Utah County and post-Mormon
Me too
Also born into the Mormon religion in Utah. Can confirm, these organizations are attractive here. They use the same language and pressure tactics often employed in church or church related activities. MLMs and Mormonism share common practices and language.
(I'm also post Mormon and a resident of Utah)
Sorry but what do you mean by the founders of doterra having sketchy backgrounds?
Can confirm I had to escape the Mormons. I live in a Mormon town in Idaho.
@@emmacook9184 One of the founders, "Doctor" David Hill, for one, presented himself as a doctor and gave medical advice even though he was not a licensed medical doctor. He eventually became a chiropractor but would leave off the D.C. part of his name, allowing others to assume he was a medical doctor. Before doTerra, Hill worked with Donald Gary Young, the founder of Young Living Essential Oils. Just Google his name, and you'll find a history of quackery and lawsuits. Young originally had his business in California but was ordered to shut down. - - That is one example.
MLMs should be illegal, honestly. I don't understand how they get away with the things they do.
They are illegal once they reach a certain percentage (varies by country) in which they earn more in recruiting than sales but what they do to get away with it is they put manipulate their numbers to make it look like they earn more in selling than recruiting. Another illegal thing to do but no ones launching a huge investigation to look into these MLMs so they dont get caught
Because it's legal. The system is legit and it's profitable but it's also because of this that people take advantage of this and run a company in a guise of MLM but are actually more focused on recruitment that selling the product.
Easy. Bribe people in power, lawmakers.
@@incisive2641 Yep! You should listen to The Dream Podcast. But the gist is the Devos Family who created Amway were friends with Ford and the Reagan. They donate a lot of money to the Republican party and many Democrats so they made rules so Amway wouldn’t get sued and if they let Amway do it, why not others?
@@incisive2641 ohh absolutely
Nixon was gonna shut them down: however, they contributed a lot of money into Gerald Ford’s campaign and that was why they were not shut down
MLM thrives any tight-knit community. They are very prevalent in the Latin American community. I think what some people don't realize is *just* how tight-knight the church community is. (I'm a member.) You *instantly* trust other members of the church. We are more than a church, in many ways we are a nation as we developed in relative isolation in the mountain west. There are simply few groups that are so tight knit, trusting, and collectivistic.
Thats because mormons are brainwashed, and therefore incredibly easy to manipulate because the church has been doing the exact same thing their whole lives
I was raised Catholic and the number of MLMs I’ve seen growing throughout the years has made me leave. My mom’s hairdresser invited us to a Tupperware party and the minute the Tupperware representative started talking about “building a team” I was ready to tap out. One of the other ladies at that party even handed me a Mary Kay business card, claiming I could make more money with her than Ms. Tupperware, can you believe it? The Tupperware lady then started hounding me, asking me when I was going to join (I don’t even know how she got a hold of my number) and I just blocked afterwards... the fact the targeted me, a college student, is so disgusting.
They are huge here in Mexico. One element I think helps the growth is the popularity of the “tanda”, which is not so different from the image sold by these MLMs
I thought it was mlm meant
Moms
Losing
Money
Men Loving Men lol
Many Losing Money
Me Like Moneee
Meth Lubed Missile
Meet Lure Mangle
Mormons losing money
I grew up mormon and I left a few years back. I honestly am shocked at how those who could claim to have such wholesome religious beliefs and practices could prey on young families. It is something I witnessed repeatedly when I lived in Idaho. The church is not directly affiliated with these companies but they NEVER discuss it. They don't discourage it and allow members to continually fall victim to other predatory LDS members. The LDS church is organized to feel like a tight knit community so these people truly trust the MLMs because they are associated with the church. It's terrible.
I have wondered about this too..
If they don't spell out the job role clearly, I'm not involved. I know it's some kind of scam, they even have jobs like this on the job sites, *no experience needed, training given* but no clear breakdown of the job, that is always a big red flag to me.
NEVER let a potential employer know you're desperate for a job, even if you're to the point where you would literally work anywhere. If it's an MLM or financial sales position, they'll exploit your temporary vulnerability and if they're legit, they'll be turned off bc the insinuation is that you're not good at your job, thus can't get hired. So, be (truthfully) confident, even if you're faking it and always let them *think* that you have offers you're sitting on.
The TH-cam ad I had to watch before this was LITERALLY an ad for an MLM...
I used to have Mormon neighbors in the 80's that sold Amway. Seems like they always had more Amway products in their garage than they actually sold
MLMs, predatory in general, specifically prey on two vastly different groups:
1) extremely tight-knit communities (e.g., Mormons, Hispanics)
2) lonely, isolated individuals (e.g., new moms, military wives)
I’ve gotten sucked into my share of MLMs-mostly in my early thirties-but the thing that saved me was that I knew I sucked at getting people to spend money they didn’t have. When I realized that was required for success, I was outta there. Just couldn’t do it.
older teenagers as well, ones who have motivation and ambitions. They trick them into believeing that that can make a lot of money
Individuals in MLM almost never make money. the people who make the money are those who sell the distributor starter kits and there seems to be no shortage of suckers lining up for these promises of riches. Mormons are trained to pitch a product. One of the most important parts of that training is to accept rejection because a person's success in pitching is proportionate to their ability to accept rejection. They learn this when the peddle their religion door to door.
According to some statistics, even gambling is more profitable than MLM
Having lived in Utah for 60 years, I am very familiar with MLMs. The Mormons are often involved.. Not as an organization but as individuals. Missionary training is sales training. When young men and women complete their two year church missions they often turn to marketing careers or entrepreneurial causes.
True statement. Before I served my LDS mission I never heard of multi-level marketing growing up in Utah. Then after I served my mission I would get bombarded with people I knew from my ward, high school friends and former companions that would try to convince in working for those multi-level marketing companies even when they say it wasn't. Believe me I'm glad I never signed up for that malarkey.
@Carlo Caroli I had basically the same experience as you on my mission. I gave up on organized religion as well because they all claim they have the only truth. I decided to study all of the religions and their histories because knowledge is the power to resist those who try to control us. I'm convinced the universe has led me along the path I've been walking.
I also stumbled across a philosophical thinker that shares the perspective I discovered on my own. Here's a lecture on 'Practical Spirituality' (which is a funny title if you ask me):
th-cam.com/video/UEskalUGhGw/w-d-xo.html
which is kind of sad
@Pedro Romney It's sort of cult lite," actually. Not as bad as Scientology or even Jehovah's Winesses. But it's coercive to an extent, quite patriarchal and authoritarian as well. I left it and became non-theitstic. It didn't fit me.
@Carlo Caroli I appreciated reading your comment. I think a lot of people get tripped up by missions and the church being business oriented because of the preparation in a mission and knocking on doors. The preparation, the routine, the repeated phrases and prepared responses can seem like that. But that's just the way you do ANYTHING to try and succeed. Any line of work, doing anything difficult or under pressure requires practice. So that's all that is. And then the person at the door can make the decision. It's up to them.
I'm endlessly disgusted with these schemes. I've been unemployed and seeking for half a year now. Every time I come on TH-cam I'm shown those ridiculous adverts with awful men sitting in front of Lamborghinis telling me how easy it is to make a four figure income.
I hate it when I'm looking for a job and someone approaches me with an "opportunity." A few rounds of wasting my time with these meetings shrouded in mystery (they don't tell you the name or the product or what you'll actually be doing) only to find out it's Amway... so disgusting and infuriating - I am so skeptical whenever anyone even mentions inviting me to a party/meeting/business presentation.
Even worse, some are using green screen background and snapchat formula with a bottom text
Esther Batycki wow that sounds familiar.. sad but true and even after 3 meetings with the potential “business partner “ won’t tell u what it is.. have to be open minded and willing to learn and be mentored etc. lol then tell u what book u should read. It’s very cult like and in no way a real business. Found out in the end that Amway was the distributor however I’d make money off of networking!! Lol if I’m not selling but recruiting it’s a scam. Poor young girl had been involved for 2 years and was completely brainwashed.. I ended up sending her a long message and hope she’d find away out before it’s too late
@@estycki yep very predatory.
@@estycki it always starts off like "are you tired of working a 9-5 and want to retire early/ set your own hours? I met this couple and"(blah blah blah) like at least get a different speech.
I used to work in the corporate office for one of these MLMs, and whatever the lady said in the car @9:02 is true. I'm so glad I only worked there for a year. Bunch of lies and lies to the consumers!
I worked at one for just one month. It was actually brand new, and because everyone starting it was quite wealthy they never showed up to work. I was literally in this white empty office space for weeks not sure what I should be working on. It quickly occurred to me that they had no clue how to work together to get a complex project done, they were all from a sales background, claiming they were entrepreneurs.
MLM's often target young mothers at home precisely because they're a bit vulnerable and lonely.
EXACTLY! i know first hand!
@@lolaispure4296 I hope you got out. x
Some people are so trusting. It’s unfortunate that they get into situations that make them uncomfortable.
Trust? It's greed and stupidity.
Member of the Church here - LDS - and it’s heartbreaking to see something as evil as MLM originate and thrive among my people.
Former member living in SLC: I agree. I almost got sucked into one right out of high school and they preyed on people in vulnerable situations. They wanted us to make cash commitments before we left. I served a mission afterwards and i now realize they were using SO many phrases people would hear in religious contexts, only applied to the MLM. When i refused to pay that night, they got my best friend's dad to come in and basically bear his testimony... for the MLM. There was one woman who had just divorced and was left with nothing, poor and devastated. They had her hook line and sinker. I still think about her.
They're using familiar language people hear in church and I'm convinced that's a big reason why a lot of people fall for it here. They prey on their trusting faithful nature. I think a lot of the people doing the pressuring really believe it too. It's really sad/devious, but you can only really recognize that if you're not suckered into one.☹️
You're the mlm for imaginary friends
No, you need to admit that this comes as no shock. I too am LDS, served a mission, and attended BYU. The mindset of impressing people by one's divine favor informed by hordes of wealth and a large house is all-to firmly imprinted on contemporary LDS culture.
You are the member of a cult.
I worked in for corporate for an MLM company, I had access to privileged information. How much the leaders were implying they were earning v's actual earnings were a difference of about 10 times. I also witness this same lie with other companies that I was a distributor for. I was a MLM leader in one company not making much money and I was honest about it, my direct sponsor told me off and said its none of their business as they look up to me and dont need to know the truth, he was also one that implied his income was way greater than reality
Daryl Young a lot of them show their checks.. do they fake those?
@@emilyheyboer1931 This is what they do, they show their highest check, which is usually their first months check (since they had a prelaunch and had months leading up to it and then they all join and the first month is the largest) mind you its actually illegal to do so according to the FTC, they cant lure people in to the business by money - yeah I know they all do.
One guy I worked with for 17 years, over the course of over 10 years he made an accumulation of 1 Million which is pretty good, but this is how he uses this in his conversations, he says "When I made my first million yadda yaddda yadda.." Thus insinuating he has made more millions thereafter - he still uses this line today even though he currently make less than minimal wage if he was getting paid hourly. Same with people who show their largest check, they say something to the effect, "Now this is when I only earned this much a year ago, you can only imagine what it is today" insinuating larger checks
Daryl Young is that any different then doing a good cleaning of your house before company arrives? Of course we all put our “best foot forward” that’s human nature.
@@TheTuesday11 putting your best foot forward is very different, indicating a false narrative to imply that youre earning more money than you are is just plain lying = fraud = deceptive marketing = not being truthful = dishonest
If you want to try to justify lying go ahead, my integrity wont allow it, if you have low standards thats up to you, but I'll leave you with a promise, you will never ever become one of the 2% that makes a lot of money, and if you do with low standards like that, you wont stay there for long, you will have to be deceptive your whole career and then the walls will one day come crashing down around you. I have seen it time and time again, those leaders you look up to are struggling and stressing behind the scenes, you have to learn to smell the BS otherwise youre going to be one of their victims ll your life. lets revisit this conversation after 15 years and youre still no further ahead. Watch what you say to people you recruit, youre going to catch yourself justifying lies all the time - good luck
@@emilyheyboer1931 I've seen them too and I laugh. One showed me a cheque for $1000 so I asked sorry and how much was the profit after your costs of buying these products, driving around having meetings and presentations? I run a small business too, not super successful or anything, but I am not impressed.
When mlm is a common term for pyramid schemes and also gay male relationships and I have no clue what this video is about but I know its juicy either way lol
It's also short for marxist-leninist-maoist!
@@AM-kr4pv im 90% sure you have no idea what any of those actaully are
@@mevolander8478 ... What a weird claim. I'm gay myself and a leftist, I am around enough people who use those terms on the daily. I'm just curious how you felt you could deduce my knowledge level from a six word sentence in which nothing I say is actually factually incorrect.
saw full version, a very good report, just goes to show its all about recruiting and not selling
oh theres a full version? how do I find it?
@@filmmakerdude bbc3 iplayer
MLM... new posh way of saying “pyramid scheme”
MLM ...not to be confused with Mormon Level Marketing.
hfredydl Not new at all, MLMs have been around a loooong time. Watkins, still around, did this in the Nineteenth Century, and amway has been big through much of the Twentieth Century.
These latest MLMs are just variations on a theme, dressed up to appeal to today’s younger generations. As the field has been tapped out with the older generations who got wise to this decades ago, in many cases, and are often better off financially such that they don’t need it as much.
But yes, even if the law doesn’t agree, their concepts are the same. A pyramid scheme doesn’t have products to sell but is otherwise the same.
i thought it was MLM as in men loving men hsadkjashdhsdh
More Lost Money.
Len Black 🤣🤣🤣
Moms losing money is what I thought it was
There are also a lot of people working for MLMs that are military spouses (at least in the US). It’s for the same reason that is stated in this video, which is that the spouse feels they should stay at home with the children and they feel it provides a sense of community.
I’m just glad my husband is not active duty military and is just reserve because I’d hate to be asked to those stupid parties and events for MLMs under the ruse of just getting together. I feel like it’s not even real sales tactics; it’s just guilting people to get the product so they “fit in” if it’s the newest MLM going around.
i'm in the US, so I have been bombarded by so many MLM schemes on FB. The most common one is a health supplement company that also just launched skin care (well, last year).. The ambassadors have been posting pics from their national convention. The thing is, despite their new skin care line, they all have tons more wrinkles than I do and many are younger than I am. I feel like posting on FB that they may need to check their photo filters when posting work related pictures...
Very Interesting... some dodgy stuff going on in Utah 😒
Since 1847.
@@joshua.snyder 1830,actually
@@gwennethschibany890 There were zero Mormons in Utah then. If you mean the church, sure, but they were all in New York, Ohio or Pennsylvania then.
@@joshua.snyder Yep,you're quite right.Sorry,way past my bedtime here in Germany,brain already asleep!!
EppingForest304 They prey on the generally trusting nature of Mormons toward other members of the church. Their trust for people from church makes them very vulnerable to MLMs and outright scams. A well-known phenomena that nearly every Mormon knows about, yet young generations keep falling for them as MLMs change their tactics. These people may well have heard warnings from their parents & grandparents, but probably don’t believe these newer MLMs are the same thing. They’re new & fresh, and people get suckered in.
It’s especially insidious because it preys on the most desperate & vulnerable. Most Mormons don’t get into this to become rich or go on vacations, they do it because they are struggling to make money while raising kids at home and see this as a legitimate option for a second work-from-home job.
Really sad, especially since those who aren’t in financial trouble don’t usually consider this. It’s people who are far less able to afford these expenses who get suckered in and lose money, not those who can afford it.
How do we watch this whole episode in the U.S.?
I grew up in this church, it's right to call this influx of MLMs coming out of Utah a cultural thing. but here's the thing most people don't know, it's more of a Utah LDS cultural thing. When some of my young stay at home mom friends that weren't able to go back to work or finish school, but still needed an extra income, started getting involved in these things, it felt really weird and creepy. They only ever heard about it from friends and family back in Utah. And because the owners were part of the church too, they thought they could trust these people. I learned from personal family experiences to never work with people from church, ever, unless you know for a fact they are good in their field, because they always pull one over on you, they aren't trust worthy in business, which is weird because that type of personality goes against what was taught in the church. I have no idea where these ideas came from or why they came about, all I know it's tied to Utah (or more likely large single type religion areas) culture, maybe not LDS culture per say.
I live in Utah, home of a lot of MLMs like Doterra, Younique (I'm actually friends with the son of the owner), Young Living, etc. And yes... It's all soccer moms spending their husband's money. At least here in Utah, where families have an average of 4 kids, women are so desperate to do something else other than being a mormon mom that they buy into this scams.
these women just needed to be a good mum and can have a very good life. Actually they have no reason to join these MLMs
If it sounds too good to be true then it is! While I sympathise with these victims, both parties, the companies and victims ought to accept some responsibility and not blame each other entirely.
I was successful in MLM and voluntarily left an income of 6 figure because it was hard to see peoples dreams being use by this industry. It was hard for me for 4 years after I left the MLM industry but I had to do it my income went from 100 thousand US to 24 thousand US and I strugle for 4 years. I currently have a reputable business and my situation has improve...STAY AWAY FROM MLM companies...they are design to benefit a few with the suffering of the vast majority of people
As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, I have never participated in any MLM. That being said I will agree with that Utah mom. Many feel they want to help bring in an income when they are staying home with their families. These companies are definitely predatory, but there is no teaching in the Church that insinuates treating our fellow men this way. As in all communities, religions, and institutions there are some people who will exploit certain cultural pressures or customs. This is not right though. The best way to protect yourself is to consider does this sound too good to be true? My heart goes out to all that have devastating impacts on friends and love ones. Hopefully if you are vulnerable with your reasons you participated in an MLM they will be understanding and can repair the damage done.
Not all MLM people are church members either. I imagine there are many in England and even in Utah that aren't members. If they are teaching to let go of relationships and to shun people then they are not good members in my opinion. We know that it's the opposite of what the church teaches.
I attend college at BYU-Idaho, in Rexburg Idaho, and there are MLM businesses EVERYWHERE. It’s interesting to listen to the business pitches though. And the dreams they’ve been sold on.
I love how my state is associated with some of the trashiest organizations in the world.
Because LDS culture (NOT DOCTRINE!!!!) has failed its members. Period! Full-stop! Something's got to change!
I mean....I feel for these women but it's always "I was encouraged" or "I felt I had to".....no one forced your hand. Millions of people set up businesses and fail every year....why don't they just take responsibility instead of blaming the company?
Yes if someone joins MLM or network marketing is their own fault.
Because it is switch and bait. You are told you just have to sell and then you are told the big money is only in recruitment. My mother was in Shaklee in the 90s. She only sold, I assume she didn't lose money but only covered her expenses because she did buy some products there.
Good on them for coming forward because they (and anyone who speaks against MLM) receive serious hate for it, its alarming the way they're treated for their personal opinion & experience. Just shows they're onto something & speaking truth or no one would care to shut them down 😬🤔
Two important factors are that Mormons as a group are inclined to believe crazy ideas and that there is a touch of prosperity gospel in Mormonism. Put those factors together with a culture of women not having a formal career and you’ve got a good recipe for a business that preys on suckers.
Why are people so reluctant to listen to their inner voice?
Kris Quigley because their insecurity screamed louder.
$$$
Because of "oh you're just being silly there's nothing to it"
Because religion indoctrinates us to supress our intuition.
Do your research for due diligence for any company you decide to work for. You’d be blown away to to know many of MLM Company owners Utah and beyond back in the 1990’s when I was a young mom in Colorado,,,
Many of the popular ones were so popular,,,, until they started getting sued,,, then bam! they closed up shop and started a new MLM Company under a different name,,, same procedures on sales tactics. Thanks for the great video,,, and all your comments, they matter.
'Amway' was there back in the day!
Yeah Amway took some of my family :(
Amway is still active. They are currently targeting people in their 20s
Funny you mention that.... my family (which is still in tact) were able to make money with this company. They busted their buns and it worked. Most business work but you must be willing to work hard.
TheTuesday11 depends on if you like that stuff. I didn’t like approaching people in grocery stores or the ideas of going to meetings every week/month or standing in front of crowds pretending my life is amazing
@@TheTuesday11 are they paying you to reply to all these comments criticism mlm schemes?
Women join mlms, men do summer sales(door to door sales, like pest control, home security, and cable, just as sketchy as these mlms). Mormon missions are more about "selling" the church than any humanitarian effort, so once these young adults get those 2 years of on the job training, mlms and summer sales swoop in to take advantage
No not at all. Mission are not about "selling" the church. It's about inviting people to accept Jesus Christ, and to realize his church is restored today. I do think that those companies exploit people of the church that have developed those skills. However, I don't see anything illegal here.
stuk athon Mormon recruiting is absolutely sales. Why does the Mormon church want more members? More money. If you don't tithe (pay up), then you aren't in good standing with the church. This is incredibly unethical.
@@laurieanne9179 No. That is a lie. Does the church make you prove that you pay the full 10%? No, because they don't care if you pay. It's between you and God.
How else could an organization exist, while not being a business? It has to have donations from its members. That is irrational to think that it could function without having a means to pay for its property. Don't be unreasonable.
stuk athon You've made my point. Like all businesses, the LDS church needs to get paid in order to keep going. Sales tactics are used to obtain the money because without them they wouldn't get that money.
@@laurieanne9179 No I didn't make your point. You are being irrational. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Meaning, the church CANNOT operate unless it pays its bills. ALL churches do this. Or they wouldn't exist. What kind of "business" doesn't pay 99% of its members/employees/whatever you want to call them? What kind of business still allows its members/employees/whatever you want to call them, to remain with the organization without paying that tithing that is essential to existing?
Elder Ballard’s talk, “The trek Continues”, Oct. 2017, attacked this issue. I am LDS, and remember going to a Mary Kay Meeting in Oregon, then again in Utah (never joined!). I remember joking how the Utahns compared it to the gospel and it was creepy and I refused so many invites over the years... Essential oils are giant out there, although I love them, never wanted to join an MLM and got manipulated into ZIJA, but never got on their 200 dollar a month fee, which was the ONLY way to make it up the ladder... convinced me to use my 0 balance CC, only once... Others were spending thousands and working hard to recruit others, I was glad to hear Elder Ballard’s talk that year... Utahns are not even half of the membership of the Church, but they are definitely vulnerable for the “get rich quick schemes”. They’re great at selling door to door in the summers, after missions, that targets male RMs, and they often make enough in summers to pay for school the next year, help their small families. Women are more sucked into pyramid schemes.
I happen to be a member too, and I remember hearing that talk, so it's not true that the leaders of the church don't talk about it, you just have to actually listen to general conference to hear about it. Also, I'm from the south, and I have several friends who are stay-at-home moms who are not members, and they get sucked into this stuff every bit as much as my more "religious" friends. It's not fair to associate the church with MLMs, I've come across so many of these types of businesses and I've never purchased from any of them or joined, I've always thought they were shameful. It's rude to pretend to be someone's friend to get them to buy something from you, and then shun them when they don't. I want to support my friends, but I wish they would try to sell me something they have hand crafted, not resale... this frenzy is so sad :(
The great success of these companies is zero accountability.
Living in Utah I get at least one or two offers a year to join the latest and the greatest company ever.
I’ve noticed the connection between MLM’s and Mormons and I’m glad I’m not the only one that’s payed attention. Also something that would be interesting is how many of the executives and creators of theses companies have close ties to the leaders of the lds church.
how jesus feels seeing this?!
He taught His Apostles how to sell, Sales are not evil if it is for a common good
Scott M key word: “common good”
@@scottwins2 if its for the common good why are only the commoners...... oh..... mandatory lifelong indentured servitude for the commoners. Yeah common good my anus. Basically slavery with extra steps. A gilded cage is still a prison.
I would not be surprised in the slightest if the LDS church was backing these companies. I'm a former member, and making money is the number one goal of the church for its members.
There's a reason back in the 70s and 80s SLC was referred to "the Beirut of the West." And much hasn't changed, as today it's considered highest in blue collared crime.
Eric Nelson sources?
blue?
@@english-tudormy bad, white collared
Lol
“Sister Love” LOL growing up Mormon, I saw a lot of fun names, Brother/Sister/Elder whoever.
So this is oooooooold news in Mormon world, and growing up in the 80’s and 90’s, in Portland, we all knew about the crazy MLMs and the things it made people around us do. Amway was the biggest, but they were everywhere and somehow another friend from church always got suckered into it.
I’m not LDS these days for various reasons, but I understand the mindset and culture very well. All my family are members, going back generations. There’s a certain mindset, a trust of fellow members and an instant network of people that makes THIS religion uniquely suited for MLM.
Many of us stayed out, but younger people get snared all the time. But new people, often young, get pulled in to new scams and MLMs constantly.
I think this culture draws in outsiders with the intent on preying on members, who pretend to be LDS or even convert for this purpose. But it also draws in those born into the church who have that mindset where they don’t mind doing this to people, maybe they can rationalize quite easily or don’t really have a conscience about it.
Some former & current Mormons have come out with studies and presentations on this well-known phenomenon that’s so huge in Utah and in Mormon communities. Make no mistake, these companies are built into the fabric of Utah and the culture. The fact that successful ones can grow internationally and go after scores of non Mormons is an outcrop of success, but at its core, this is unfortunately a very Utah thing to do.
I love Utah, I have a lot of LDS family members there. Don’t get me wrong, most are _not_ ok with this level of predation. But that culture does allow a particular kind of insidiousness to flourish, in a way that those of us non-members who are less trusting wouldn’t fall prey to as easily. It preys on desperation, on hopes & dreams, and on the very American idea that anyone can accomplish their dreams through hard work & commitment.
Sad to see another entire generation of people falling for these things all over again.
filming in portland what you have said can also be applied to the way missionaries work with investigators and new members who are encoraged to join this church vunerable people often lacking confidence and real friends people who are lonely or people with anxiety and hopes and dreams.
Both work like cults.
This is kind of disappointing, I think the subject of the video is really interesting, but it needs more than 12 minutes and the most basic investigation, I would love to see a longer documentary on this subject. The fact that so many MLMs start in mormon country might explain why they're so cult-like themselves. It'd be interesting to dive deeper into how mormon culture and MLM culture is similar and whether that is intentional (because it's proven to bind people to your ideas) or just a consequence of these companies being set up by mormons.
Hi Blane, this is an edit from a one hour documentary. It’s available on iPlayer if you’re in the UK.
And here’s another great video if you don’t have access to this BBC’s full video. Lookup “Steve Hassan MLMs” here on TH-cam or here’s the link: th-cam.com/video/fHJw7HJovW4/w-d-xo.html
His camera production is lacking on this video but his message and content is stellar.
BBC Stories Glad this documentary was made. This is an issue that Mormons and ex-Mormons have known about for generations. My parents warned me in the 80’s. But new generations continually fall prey as MLMs change how they market themselves to appeal to new trends. after finding fertile grounding in Utah, they’ll expand nationally then internationally until it’s no longer just a Mormon thing.
A few people with flexible morals can run roughshod over trusting Mormons, getting them to do all sorts of things. It’s a built-in trusted support network, being Mormon, which makes these things especially insidious. Having stay at home moms (or dads) struggling to make ends meet creates the perfect marks.
Having left the church over twenty years ago, I’m much wiser and less naive about the world. But the ground remains fertile among Mormons for scams, fraud, and MLMs perpetrated by a small number of people who seem to lack a conscience.
*There’s much more to this story than a few modern MLMs.* An entire film series would be needed to even get in to part of the fascinating, insane, horrific and wonderful things behind this and in the church’s nearly 200 year history.
Unless you’re a Mormon history scholar, most have no clue. But interesting to study.
it's a interesting channel which i am always prefering to watch each moment
The LDS church did a huge church wide meeting expressly warning people to stay away from MLM and other investments that many members are falling prey to. Even in the church's general conference one of the leaders called out these companies as deceptive and evil. Hopefully more people stay far away from these scams as possible
Man this video is shot so well. I love it. I have no interest in the content, makeup or MLM. But the video itself is so well done. Wow.
I've done a lot of research into these MLMs because it's a fascinatingly horrible part of the economy that most people are still not fully educated on and it's runs pretty deep with the way it influences it's individuals. Here's some really important things to understand about these groups
1. you'll lose all your friends because they are the only customers you can sell to, and the products and lifestyle are a complete scam that can only hurt those people.
2. You'll lose all your money investing stock you can't sell because the product is a waste.
3. You can never feasibly rise to the top because there aren't enough people on earth to work beneath you and that is the only way to make money in the situation. It's straight up not fair but the company pays individuals a share of the profits from everyone you bring in. That means whoever brought you into the game is taking your money too.
4. You'll be targeted with the temptation of luxary and being able to work from home.
They don't want to move products they want you to belive you can sell the products. It is all about you wasting your money investing in them. They sell nothing but an idea.
Elaine Always there are a few mlm where you can earn a very good amount of money , with just a hand full in your team and to be fair some just join get the products at discount , when you cannot get anywhere else
@@gavinscotttraining Thank you for sharing and I'd like to hear more about it.
Elaine Always not sure how I can message you on here , go to www.gavinscott.org
@@ElaineAlwaysMS not sure how to message you , just go to gavinscott.org and drop me a message , the couple i joined with sold over £65,000 last year without team and we have products up to 70% off
don,t think you tube like links if they above link does not work, message me on fb facebook.com/jgavinscott
Most ppl just don’t have the marketing savvy or sales knowledge to make something like this work. It’s usually ppl with no business experience or skills that join these companies i.e. the bad ads you see online, the bad representation, the aggressive animal like Recruiting. You can’t build a business from a “lack mindset” and you can’t expect to get good results if you don’t have the skills. I don’t think these companies are targeting certain ppl, but I do believe certain ppl are attracted to them, also probably why most of them get a bad rep
I'm a Latter-day Saint and a returned missionary and joined a couple of MLM's, many years ago. I'm not a part of them anymore. I feel that members of the church, involved in MLM's, have been straight-forward and honest with me, however, I joined Amway, 20+ years ago and the non-Latter-day Saint people trying to recruit me were very dishonest--avoiding to even say the name: Amway. The Amway conference calls always started with a prayer from Evangelical Christians, usually from the South and the I was coached to lie about the name of the company and other claims. The Church of Jesus Christ just sent a letter around to all of their members, a couple of months ago, to be read to all members, to avoid money-making schemes and to avoid investing time and money into companies and programs that promise get-rich-quick results. Hopefully, all MLM's will go out of business soon and go to just online sales for the products as the only ones making any money at those co's are the top management, everyone else gets hosed.
Russell Fine Arts,
As a former active Mormon - now Christian - why is a widespread letter needed to tell the saints something even unbelievers know by virtue of every human’s God-given gift called conscience? Moreover, please understand from an outsiders view, there is little difference in the tactics used by MLM’s and Mormon missionaries. Converts never fully know what the church is all about until they’re fully in it.
@@beholdhisglory1657 The letter was just a reminder for members to not get unknowingly scammed by other members, or others, which may cause hard feelings, etc., from business ventures. The letter said nothing about MLM's or any specific business. Although it's common sense it's also good to be reminded and the church, as every church, needs to protect themselves against liability.
And no, there's no similarities of MLM's and Latter-day Saint missionaries, that's only your poor opinion. I used to belong to Amway, which is the largest and one of the oldest MLM's, which is run almost entirely by evangelical/fundamentalist Christians who literally say prayers on their conference calls for their Amway people to get rich, I know, I heard the conference calls, myself. I was shocked! I quickly quit. I then joined another MLM, out of L.A., run by non-members of the church which scammed me out of ~$2k with pure lies. I had enough and gave up on MLM's.
I served a mission for the church and trained missionaries. Here was our approach and script: "Hi, we're missionaries from the church...., we'd like to share a message about Jesus Christ with you." We'd get a yes or no, that's it. Missionaries use no sales tactics, I know, I've trained and taught sales professionals for many years. If your doctor says: "we recommend you consider this procedure, it will benefit you," or a school teacher says, "I suggest you study this subject, you'll benefit from it," does that mean they're using MLM sales tactics? No, you're being unfairly critical to Latter-day Saint missionaries. The fact that so many MLM companies have started in Utah is because Utah is a business friendly state, have a high percentage of Saints who know each other well and Latter-day Saints are big on starting businesses. That's it.
Personally, I hope all MLM's go out of business or just sale their crap online and stop pestering people, it's so 1980's.
Behold His Glory exactly!!!
I was recruited to Amway while in college. Felt compelled and charmed at the same time. In month, I decided to exit. Luckily, the experience taught me to avoid all MLMs which came my way (actually 'pushed my way')later..
Is there a link to the full film/report for outside UK? When I opened the link in the description it says only available in UK.
all the people at the top get their money from scamming people at the bottom
Can you remake this while replacing the younique with young living, and make up with essential oils? I would like to show it to my aunt
The folks exploiting the stay-at-home mothers don’t bother to tell their recruits that the MLM will eat up a huge amount of their time & energy, and can easily take away more of their maternal energy than a regular job would.
How can I watch this in the United States? BBC iPlayer tell me I have to be in the UK....does that mean I just can't? It doesn't seem to be in full form on TH-cam that I can find.
Younique mascara totally got me. Never was a presenter, but I have so much lose powder eyeshadow that doesn't do shit lol
Like abusive men MLM companies isolate you from anyone who might call them out or tell you they are abusing you!
No coincidence that mlm is so popular in Mormon Utah
What type of legitimate business makes a person feel it is too risky to reveal their own identity? I think the video answers the question
why was the fact that 90% of people made no income at all only seen as important enough for a line at the bottom of the screen not even read out
the ad before this video advertised Zero Up, which based on the commercial and a little googling looks very much like an mlm
This was great work. So here's an idea for you. Come back to Utah and expose the connection between Mormonism and why women in this state earn significantly lower then men per capita...
Holy hell can you be that stupid? Look at education and experience by preference based on sex and then you'll have your answer to this "sexism"
Wouldn't that be a rather short video:
1. Many communities are religious.
2. Most mums who go into full-time work do that later than their husbands.
3. The full-time working mums go into work with lesss experience and start at a lower paygrade.
...Now you do the math.
I tried body shop at home but never took off, I didn’t have a car at the time or money for the kit, never got the party books as someone knew someone who did those parties, I signed up for two others but nothing happened or took off as I needed a full time wage. The up lines act nice and some are but if you aren’t giving it 24/7 you are shunned and forgotten about.
Nuskin is destroying my sister's marriage
How can you watch this in the USA? The iPlayer only works for UK
I really shouldn’t be surprised. This is probably how the church makes most of there money. The Mormon church is a very successful cult, so seeing these companies adopt the same practices as the Mormon church is crazy. The Mormon church requires tithing and the more money you make the more tithing you give.
The LDS church is not a cult and although the members are LDS they have no tie to the church. Please educate yourself before making a hate comment about a religion you know little about.
Oh I know a lot about it. Don’t assume that I don’t, and it’s not hate it’s fact.
Emma Cook I believe your biased since it seems to me that you are part of the LDS religion. Of course I don’t want to assume that you are, but almost all religions are cults not just Mormonism. And it looks to me that MLMs have something to do with the church since Utah is a Mormon state.
I was a single mom and I joined the church but I had married a member who was African. The rest of the members did not liked us because we’re in interracial marriage. My husband has passed away and I’m dating a exmormon and the members are not happy but I am not worried what they are thinking.
Christina Ostil: Bravo, you, for following both your heart and head! What a toxic atmosphere - couples being shunned because of the oh so wrong, apparent effrontery of the "mismatch of their skin." Most pathetic. And this alienating, judgemental reaction in a supposedly religious milieu, no less. It's very sad, and disappointing that such boorish mentalities are still alive and well in so many realms. May your beloved husband R.I.P.
I wish you and your new beau all the very best! May you both find other genuine, feet-on-the-ground good folks to socialize, and worship with. I hope you have not been turned off of organized religion altogether, but certainly understand if it no longer has a place in your life.
Blessings,
Quincy's Law
The way these companies are making their executives rich is so "godly".
There’s nothing “ungodly” with being rich. You just gotta work hard for what you want.
@@TheTuesday11 I think you missed the point. "godly" was used on purpose. Just think about Mormonism...
Nomester Louise i myself am not a Mormon nor would I ever become one. I am however a Christian and I don’t have an issue with MLM if you truly believe in the products your selling.
I hear often how Christians should not be wealthy and I do think that’s “bunk” to put it lightly!
@@TheTuesday11 that's cool, being an ex-Mormon it does sound like a Mormon-specific point to be fair
NuSkin is particularly linked to the Mormon Church as they have women give Sister Missionaries makeup tutorials and free makeup while in the MTC. 🤔
Nuskin is very expensive and they would never give free makeup at MTC unless someone wanted it lol what a laugh
Donna Vaughn they would. All these young women are going through some of the most intensive marketing training in the world. By giving them an intro and free stuff, many will return from their missions to ‘sell’ these items.
Yes, Jared. Its very predatory in hindsight. And Donna, I was one of those sister missionaries who got a tutorial / free makeup. Along with all my roommates. If they’ve now stopped thats one thing, but they were definitely there during my three week stint in the MTC
That didn't happen while I was at the MTC for 6 weeks.
Kindiah when did you serve? Like I said, they may have stopped allowing it. I was there Jan 2010.
There are two separate things: the LDS Church and Mormon culture. Focus on having a personal relationship with Christ, with emphasis on personal.
Anyone that gets into Network marketing or MLM it is their own fault.
Well done bbc. Exposing these con artists.
I live in Utah and MLM is huge. I've got family members who fall for these every time a new one comes around and they waste a lot of money on it. It's just a social status
An odd choice to not point out the Nu Skin headquarters sits right next to a new LDS temple in Provo. The imagery and implied endorsement is gold amoung devout Mormons.
The Tabernace was here for around 100 years then burned down and rebilt and made a temple. Your statement has no foundation
@@scottwins2 You are in a cult, my friend! Turn back to Christ and open your eyes.
Check how your church used bloodletting back in the day, or how Joseph Smith translated from 'reformed egiptian' (there is no such thing), he was a con man.
Why you mormons don't look for the truth? Why are you afraid of the Truth?
I think I know some people in Nuskin. I didn't know it was an MLM. The moment I saw it was, I almost ran out the door. My mum was briefly in one in the 90s, when this was still new.
If people have lost all their money, friends and family they really need to look into the mirror and have an interview with themselves because the ONLY one to blame is themselves.
I know people personally in both companies. I can think of one person in Younique and one in Nuskin who are doing incredible financially. They work their butts off and it shows in their bank accounts. Unfortunately I think many young women buy into these types of opportunities thinking they can “work” from home 2 or 3 hours a day and they expect to become wealthy. I’m here to tell you NO business in the world works like that.
It’s time for people to take responsibility for THEMSELVES and the choices THEY have made and stop looking for someone to blame because they are not living their best life!
TheTuesday11 go back to church
h a l e i g h come back to reality 😂
Great bit of investigating - well done.
Im confused as to what being apart of an MLM had to with the LDS church. I get the companies started in Utah however the correlation between the two was unclear. They talked to one women who was LDS that chose to participate with a company in the hopes of contributing to her household by working from home. The opportunity obviously did not work well for her however what did that have to do with the Church? Staying home is a choice not a requirement.
nitaBist Mormon women are encouraged to stay home with the children to school them and take care of the house
Jodie Platz it’s a miss understanding , the church doesn’t care if women stay home or not, but they teach roles as mothers to nurture and care for the children, making people think they’re suppose to stay home
What those who can't make it in an MLM are told is identical to what unhappy and departing Mormons are told. "You just can't cut it. You are lazy. The problem is with you, not the product."
I love in Utah when it’s small business day, all my friends in MLMs are saying to support their “small business”. So corny...
I am part of a MLM - but have never been promised outrageous rewards or had to invest.