You addressed something so subtle here today. It is that we were taught every time we felt elevated emotion it meant the church was true. Even though it had nothing to do with it. I used to feel peace and joy during my daily nature walks. And that confirmed in my Mind the church was true. When in reality walking in nature just makes me feel happy and peaceful. The church always stole the credit.
Elder Bednar said that no apostle has seen nor heard Jesus Christ face to face. When we have a spiritual experience, we try to fit it into our narrative of the time and find meaning as it is explained thru the lens of the church. Once you leave, you realize that those same feelings happen All. The. Time. and it has nothing to do with God or Jesus or the Spirit. Learning this is a really tough pill to swallow for so many who have left. Everyone really really really wants it to be true and then when it comes right down to it, God is not out there somewhere in a list of To Do's but is within you waiting for your actions to confirm it. No religion owns that feeling.
I think it’s a good thing that the Church is retreating from previous dogmatic positions of surety. I’d really like to see rhetoric around testimony shift to something along the lines of acceptance or feeling compelled to action. “Knowing” in the LDS context is really more of a loyalty pledge.
This is what I blogged about a couple blogs ago. “But did you ever have a testimony?” It’s how we were taught to interpret emotions and feelings that we applied a “spiritual confirmation” to. It’s hard to explain this to other, still in members, because they “know” what the spirit feels like. We just have been led astray. (Insert eye roll)
I've been lds my whole life and I never ever had any of the spiritual experiences that other members of the church claim to have despite always trying to with complete sincerity. After 35 plus years of trying, I'm forced to conclude that other people are better at self deception than I am.
I had my "conversion experience" at age 18 by reading the New Testament. I was always a New Testament Mormon, not a Joseph Smith Mormon or a Book of Mormon Mormon. I left Mormonism because I studied its origins and history and concluded that it's all made up.
You are correct that those who have all these 100% phony "spiritual experiences" are more self deceived than you are, however, if you have anything to do with the Godless religion of science (scientism) they you are every bit as blind, lost deceived and outside of the kingdom of God as the mormons are. The fact is, scientism is the real religion of the Godless abomination of mormonism, as well as the real religion of everything known as the church/Christianity. Scientism is the one world religion!
Although it is true that mormonism is all a 100% false, manmade fraud, but just because one understands this truth in no way means that they understand any other truth. Those that escape from the Godless abomination of mormonism will with almost 100% certainty become ensnared into some other false manmade lie/deception.
I practiced Mormonism until my thirties, and during that time, I looked into the apologetics associated with it. The level of mental gymnastics I encountered was astonishing, often bordering on delusion and bias. If the faith genuinely represented absolute truth, its historical evidence should speak for itself without the need for such delusional justifications.
I believe God is love, and that love is emulated when we try to connect to God in any way. We then take that feeling of love and define it according to our own personal agendas. If I am mormon and feel God's love, then mormanism is true. If I am in another faith and I feel that feeling, then that faith is true. What we do is mistake God's love for something very different.
Indeed. Believers in many different religions use those warm feelings as evidence that their sect is true. A Baptist might say that he has been "convicted" or that he has been "baptized by the spirit." None of those feeling equate to their sect being the "one true" one.
This is why one must get past the good feeling stage and learn to hear God's voice through the Holy Ghost. (1 Cor 2:10-14) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I was in an oppressive cult in my youth. After I got out I was bitter and became atheistic for a while. But it dawned on me that I was judging God on the basis of what I had experienced in the cult. I took me a while to realize that that man was not God, nor was a reasonable facsimile of God. Therefore whether I was to believe or disbelieve had to be totally separated from my experiences.
I had a spiritual experience in a Hindu temple….does that mean that Hinduism is “true?” I felt it and knew my experience was “true.” Maybe God is way bigger than we think. BTW I’m still an Episcopalian.
First off, as an episcopalian, you are not a Christian, just another lost person deceived by a false religion. Second, yes, everyone in ever false religion thinks they have had a spiritual experience that CONvinces them to believe that they have found a/the truth religion.
@ well, you sound just like me 40 years ago, before I was betrayed by my so called fundamentalist mentors and “friends” who exploited me and discarded me when I was no longer willing to be exploited by them. It’s been a long and difficult journey from that infinitesimal god to the loving expansive gracious deity I worship today. I just hope you don’t have to endure what I have in your faith journey…..
I’m glad to hear that you haven’t lost your faith in God. If you’ve found a home where you feel you can grow closer to God and one that provides you with a greater opportunity to serve others I think that’s wonderful.
I don't think a church with $300 billion in assets can be true (Mathew 19:16-22). But I believe the gosepl to still be true. Big difference between the two.
The key to getting answers from God is to be open to the answer. You have free will and God will not violate that even if you ask. You need to ask God and tell him to show you where you are blocking him. God also has his time and that is rarely your time. God may keep you somewhere until the time is appropriate. Then and then only then will he have you somewhere else until the time is appropriate. Life is a journey; let God love you. Embrace the awkwardness of not getting your answer by embracing God. (Also God usually speaks in parables). The simplest way to enjoy life is: Let God love you everyday. That is success. Enjoy your journey.
The ONGOING Restoration sure knows a lot less these days. You'd think they'd be INCREASING in knowledge. Game over for the "restored fullness of the gospel"
The truth is, mormonism could not possibly be a more antigod, antibible, antichrist, false, manmade religion. It is everything the Bible warns us not to be deceived by.
@@VoxClamantisinDeserto-zw2mt Sadly the opposite is true. Most Christians don't believe the Bible like Mormons do. Most Christians don't believe God is a God of gods and that there is an assembly of gods that he is God over. See Duet 10:17, Psalm 82:1,6
2 videos in 1 day! Are you trading religiosity for YouTubosity? Joking aside, I'm proud & happy for you. If your progression from the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS is similar to mine away from the evangelical church, it will only get easier, clearer, & more fulfilling as you discover a life based upon intellectual honesty--accepting that we don't have some answers & probably never will, & being at peace with that. As I frequently remind myself, feelings are not facts. Enjoying your videos and appreciate you sharing.
@@jennwelding6281 Have always known the “save it be one” is referring to the missionary’s self conversion after hardship, isolation, sacrifice, food & comfort deprivation have forced the missionary to say “it must be true for God to tell us we must endure these trials”.
Missions are to snare the lost into the Godless abomination of mormonism to extract money from them and to control them. Mormonism has nothing whatsoever to do with the God, the Jesus, the truth, the gospel, not the Christianity of the Bible. It is all a con artist made fraud to make money and have control over the totally willingly ignorant.
@@VoxClamantisinDeserto-zw2mtthe difference between Mormons and other Christians is, Mormons believe the Bible while the others do not. Do you believe God of gods and a Lord of Lords? If you don't believe believe God is a God of gods, you don't believe the Bible. It's that simple. See Deut 10:17
Truth? That's definitely subjective my friend. In my opinion this poor brother has been a fool. 🥺 Is soulful suffering is tragic and completely unnecessary. I think he's one of many who got lost in the culture and forgot that it's really only about Jesus Christ and our covenant. He's thrown away the heaps of evidence in favor of the restoration for the sake of anecdotal evidence. Yes, "you find what you're looking for"; he simply had a shift for whatever personal reasons that caused him to start looking for reasons to doubt. All of Mormonism hinges on praying to know it's true?! BS There is real evidence found in several forms. All he has to do is open himself to all the evidence and he'll find himself right back where he started. He was blessed with the ultimate and has thrown it away. 🥺
@ I guess Truth can be subjective to some people but that really sounds more like the old LDS Duck and Dive to me. (Formally known as the Mormon Monte.)
@@nathanschaupp9709 When you study Mormonism objectively it doesn’t take very long to realize that Christ is an after thought in the religion. He is wedged in where ever possible to make the whole thing go down easier.
Deuteronomy 18:22 outlines the test we should use for determining if a prophet is true or not. It can be difficult to prove truth, but with THAT test, we can at least prove falsehood.
Yes this is the nonsense type stuff they spew to make us believe they walk and talk face to face with Christ without actually saying they have…and then later they can say, “we never said we had those type of experiences .” They play mind games to manipulate us into believing they are something they are not, but can still claim deniability when necessary.
I believe that sometimes God gives us an accurate answer to a prayer, but we place additional meaning on it. I had a great spiritual experience on my mission where I believe that God told me “The Book of Mormon makes people more Christlike beings“. It was accompanied by the burning in the bosom as well as that sense of pure light and knowledge flowing into my mind. I can never forget it or deny it. But if I consider it honestly and rationally God did not say that the Book of Mormon was true or an accurate history. He did not say that Jesus is the Christ. He did not say that the LDS church was the only true church. I added all of that Meaning myself.
You are correct! Everything those snared into the Godless abomination of mormonism believe has ALL ONLY come from their evil, wicked, corrupt, spiritually dead and blind hearts. None of it has any basis whatsoever in truth or reality. Mormonism is a 100% fake, con artist made, 100% antigod, antibible, antichrist religion. It is the religion of the accursed of God.
Nathan, sounds like your buying into the lie that the LDS church teaches that if the LDS church is not true, the NO church is true. And sometimes when a member leans the facts about Joseph Smith or the history on the LDS church and decides to leave, thay become total Atheist. If that is the case, please read the book (Is atheism dead?) by Eric Metaxas. Great book, and archaeology dose seem to confirm the crazy stories in the Bible.
The problem is the difference between Mormons and other Christians is Mormons believe the Bible while the others do not. Do you believe God is a God of gods that judges among an assembly of gods? If you don't, you don't believe the Bible. See Duet 10:17, Psalm 82:1,6
@@MarkHigbee God of gods refers to false, pagan gods (LOWERCASE g) Lord of lords refers to human lords/kings Deuteronomy 18:22 provides a very simple test, for determining if a prophet is false or not. It's very simple. If a prophet makes a false prophesy, they are a false prophet. False prophesies appear throughout the entire Book of Mormon, and Joseph Smith himself made many false prophesies, including the Temple being built in Missouri within a generation. There is FAR more Biblical evidence that REJECTS your theology, than supports it.
@nottiredofwinning3736 So you would dimish our God and say he is a God of false gods? And that he holds assemblies with false gods made out of stone? Do you think David would sing praises to the our God before false gods? (Psalm 138:1) I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee. Again: the Bible says our God is a God of gods. It doesn't say he is a God of false gods... he doesn't judge among non present false gods in his assembly. He judges among the elohim or the gods... These are not false gods.
I don't think God lied to you. I think we are each given unique experiences that help us and others at that time. We all grow and learn as we go. I've deconstructed, but I still can't deny the experiences I've had. Amongst the members and those that have left the church who have deconstructed here in Australia, we still discuss our experiences. My confirming experience wasn't about joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon, I was given an individual experience that was important for me. I agree we should be careful not to come to conclusions too quickly. I agree that many have confirmation bias. I had a great experience in a chinese church where I felt the spirit come in and hover over the crowd for ten minutes and leave. My leaders didn't agree, but to this day, I appreciate the great experience I had there. Another came when a Hindu woman gave me a blessing, I felt the spirit and her good intentions. It was another great experience. I wish you well on your journey.
@@andrewreed4216 Finding the goodness in others, without caring about their religion, has been the greatest affirmation of humanity! I now appreciate their uniqueness. Life without judgment is so liberating and beautiful.
Can always treat it like science if people like. The scriptures say to "experiment" upon the word. Run an experiment. Read, study and follow... then measure the results of the change in one's life.
Alma 32:27 begins with a desire to believe, which sets up a bias. Examine the facts without bias, with neither a desire for it to be true or false. Examine the facts of archaeology, of genomics and of ancient America. Be willing to accept the truth even if it goes against what you want it to be. Even if it goes against what you currently believe. Be willing to accept the truth under those conditions. When one removes all feeling and preconceived bias from the Book of Mormon and examines it on the actual evidence alone, it becomes clear that it is not from any ancient people anywhere in the Americas and in fact is a fraudulent hoax from the early 19th century.
You are completely lost and deceived. NO ONE can intellectually figure out God and the truth of Gods only words to mankind, the 66 books of the Bible. Mankind can only and will only be deceived. The ONLY way anyone can ever understand Gods words (the 66 books of the Bible) is if God FIRST makes them spiritually alive. The Bible is only understood by the very, very, very few who Jesus came to save and make spiritually alive. The rest of the people of the Godless world who are ALL 100% spiritually dead and blind will only become ensnared into some false manmade religion that they used their 100% corrupted intellect to conclude is a true religion.
Experimenting on the teachings to determine if it is ‘true’ is poor logic. First off, many people have tried the teachings and it is harmful for them but even if you try the teachings and they’re good, that doesn’t automatically mean the Book of Mormon becomes a true document. I could write a pamphlet or book about an alien civilization that lived on Mars with a good way to live in it. If you experiment on my ‘teachings’ found on that pamphlet and find it to be good, do you automatically assume my alien civilization is real?
That would be my answer too about when I prayed to know what to do and which Church to take my family to. I think it was a coincidence that the Mormon missionaries knocked on my door at that moment. I think that most mormons would disagree but most other religions would agree with me. If it had been someone from their church though, then it would have been an answer. Confirmation bias.
There is a logical fallacy in your argument (although I agree with almost everything you say here). It is that if you claim that we can't "know" that the church is true or the BoM is true or things like that, how can you claim to "know" that JS was a polygamist, or that the BoM isn't true? Either we can "know" things outside our own experience, or we can't. Which is it?
Thank you so much for this amazing video! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: I have a SafePal wallet with USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). What's the best way to send them to Binance?
I don’t understand the problem- even if the church is not the one and only true church - it still doesn’t have anything to do with Gods existence. God was here long before the Mormon church and people in other churches and religions also have miracles and spiritual experiences. God meets us where we are.
The ONLY thing I personally know is the divine manifestations I’ve received. The first time was when I decided on my own to read The Book of Mormon. I was not active in the church and I had no bias other than I knew my life was heading in the wrong direction. There was no emotional stimulus that preceded what came over me. I can’t deny what happened to me. It was not an endogenous feeling and it filled me with light and love. Of coarse it caused immense feelings to come out of me. If I dumped an ice cooler of water over your head it would cause you to have feelings. It changed my life instantly. That being said, we don’t have a monopoly on God’s love or witnesses from the Holy Ghost or born again experiences or whatever term you prefer. God has way more children that He loves and will reach them any way He can. Our host of missionaries are way too small to match God’s desire that his children become aware of Him. Where I disagree with your analysis is where to put your trust. When I read church history or hear the testimony of others or study the origins of the Book of Abraham I’m only reading what others have written or said or I’m getting second or third hand analysis. What happened to me over 30 years ago was the one thing that I personally witnessed. It was real. I don’t know why some have had light bulb moments like mine and others have never had that experience but I know I would have never stayed faithful without it and I admire those like my wife who were simply born with the gift of faith. She’s like a magnet for all things good.
God is real we should never give up on God . The lds church is false But that doesn’t make God any less true . I’m new to your channel I really love what you have to say ❤ I think we get into that mindset over the years that what we believe is the absolute truth so when people start deconstructing they throw everything out including God . I had a difficult time with my diconstruction and I know that I was led to a podcast that has been life changing ) opening up our understanding and broadening our learning can open doors that have been closed . There’s a whole beautiful world out there with Beautiful people who all have differing beliefs But the church keeps people locked in a box And over time we come to believe that thier is no other way , we know that that is not true but we don’t see it while we are living it . I highly recommended moment -“Let’s get biblical “ by Rabbi Tovia Singer these books have been life changing It’s just been a god send And we need to open up ourselves enough so that we can connect the dots For a wonderful Happy authentic life , putting Gods wisdom first and then loving people with all hearts and letting our light shine !!!! Thanks brother for shedding g Light on these difficult conversations Happy Holidays 🎄🎄🎄
All religions might have simular experiences, but not all religions have the Book of Mormon. I prayed about it nany years ago, determined it is true, have studied it well beyond confirmation bias, and still belueve in its truthfullness. I don’t need to continue to say generalizrd prayers about the truthfullness of ‘the church’
Brother, pray to the Holy Spirit, ask Him to guide you to the truth. It's a long journey, have patience and do the due diligence required to get there. The truth will hold up to discernment, fact-checking, and skepticism - and it will set you free. Explore the Bible (not the "inspired" version) with fresh eyes.
I’m a life long member of the LDS church and I also have wrestled with a lot of the history of the church off and on but I keep coming back to the conclusion that my faith is not in the arm of flesh but in God and the teachings of Jesus Christ. So instead of focusing on all of the negative history of men I try to shift my focus to only the things that will strengthen my faith in Jesus Christ and do my best to follow Him. This means I have to tune out a lot of the emotions and feelings and strive to align my moral compass toward God. At the end of the day I know that I’m only accountable for my own sins. I do agree that we have to be careful to not confuse emotions with the Holy Spirit. Some times in prayer if I rephrase my prayer I receive an answer. I also know that God has the power to reach us in many ways. Even Jesus Christ spoke parables to the Jews in things that were familiar to them. In other words we can hear truth in however the Lord can reach us individually. God Bless.
The fact is, mormonism is a 100% fake, con artist made Godless abomination. It is the religion of the completely Biblically illiterate, and the totally willingly ignorant. ALL those snared into this 100% fake antigod, antibible, antichrist fraud will with 100% certainty be thrown into the lake of fire.
And this may work for you, but the church makes demands of us, gives us expectations of ourselves and our families and members around us that can be overwhelming. What may work for you, may cause deep emotional trauma for your children and grandchildren. God is not making those demands and giving out expectations of them, fallible, opinionated human men are, and it does deep damage for some.
You seem like a nice and sincere guy. So please take what I say as less harsh than how it may appear. There is a major flaw in your statement. You do not have faith in God or Jesus. What you have faith in is the proverbial arm of flesh, in what the Mormon church has taught you about Jesus and God. Not the same thing. As much as you try to separate your testimony from the imperfect leaders, those same leaders gave you the concept of Jesus that you adhere to today. So you cannot separate your testimony from the “arm of flesh” as you claim, since they gave you the image and concept of God that you have. So no, your testimony is in the church and what it taught you about Christ, nothing more.
@@Bobjdobbs Fair enough but you could also say that pretty much about everything that you have learned since childhood either in or out of an organized religion. No matter what your source is it takes faith to believe in things not seen by the mortal eye.
@@jeffreyblanton9877 Except many things, like science, can be proven empirically. So no, not everything requires faith. As for faith in the supernatural and the magical… why would I trust a church that has done so much evil, but n the name of doctrine? Why would a good god allow unjust men to continually lead its people astray?
The fact is, there is no such thing as the devil/satan. These words refer ONLY to Godless mankind. And yes, Godless mankind has had a lot of experience deceiving the completely Biblically illiterate, and the totally willingly ignorant.
@@randyjordan5521 ,,..joseph smith was a 100% Godless con artist that lied about everything and had nothing whatsoever to do with the truth or the God/Jesus of the Bible.
OR... perhaps they all received positive spiritual confirmation for the sake of the good and truth that is available to them in the belief system they happened to have exposure to. In other words; it was better than nothing. There's spiritual truth and goodness in just about every spiritual belief system. If you dig in to the history and all of the evidence you'll find yourself back home brother. This I can promise you. I've been Right where you are, I finally decided to dig in hard give the time and effort to get to the bottom of it. And now I'm home after roughly 15 years away. A part of me always knew though. It's like deep down you just know, whether you like it or not. I'm beyond grateful to have come to Faith on this; it is such a huge blessing and will be even more so in the days coming. Regarding the native Americans, that hasn't changed, there was definitely a group of native Americans that had Jewish ancestry and the stories passed down from generation to generation indicate such. Not to mention the Jewish "earthworks" that were discovered. As well as the Hopewell mounds that match. Have you not heard about all of the native American traditions that line up?? Give it time and keep watching, more evidence will continue to surface. Maybe you just need a break brother, take a break, I get it. When you come back remember to focus on Jesus and your covenant with God only, forget about the culture and the rest of the nonsense. Much love & Merry Christmas Nathan! 🕊️🤍🕊️ PS: I promise can help you reconcile all. DM me with Facebook Messenger Nathan Schaupp 🙂
“There is spiritual truth and goodness in just about every spiritual belief system”, including Mormonism. But it’s not complete truth. Some of the church’s teachings do a lot of deep traumatic damage to many individuals and their families. Just because it works for you doesn’t mean it won’t do damage to your children or your grandchildren. God does not cause people to hate themselves. God does not destroy self esteem, love, marriages, families…but the church many of the church teachings do.
You addressed something so subtle here today. It is that we were taught every time we felt elevated emotion it meant the church was true. Even though it had nothing to do with it. I used to feel peace and joy during my daily nature walks. And that confirmed in my
Mind the church was true. When in reality walking in nature just makes me feel happy and peaceful. The church always stole the credit.
Nathan,my 50 years in the church is spot on with your experience. I was able at the age of 67 to brake free from the delusion and elevated emotions.
Congrats on your enlightenment in regard to Mormonism 👏
@@savedbygracethrufaith quiet pretender.
@@Mikleray liar.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D ,...Repent of your ignorance, and of your Godlessness!
Liar.
Elder Bednar said that no apostle has seen nor heard Jesus Christ face to face. When we have a spiritual experience, we try to fit it into our narrative of the time and find meaning as it is explained thru the lens of the church. Once you leave, you realize that those same feelings happen All. The. Time. and it has nothing to do with God or Jesus or the Spirit. Learning this is a really tough pill to swallow for so many who have left. Everyone really really really wants it to be true and then when it comes right down to it, God is not out there somewhere in a list of To Do's but is within you waiting for your actions to confirm it. No religion owns that feeling.
There are so many lies in that statement it’s ridiculous to even take serious.
Reference?
When did he say that? I’d like to look that up please.
It’s called being a decent human!!
@@DC-pm8wvhe said this at a missionary zone conference
I think it’s a good thing that the Church is retreating from previous dogmatic positions of surety. I’d really like to see rhetoric around testimony shift to something along the lines of acceptance or feeling compelled to action. “Knowing” in the LDS context is really more of a loyalty pledge.
This is what I blogged about a couple blogs ago. “But did you ever have a testimony?” It’s how we were taught to interpret emotions and feelings that we applied a “spiritual confirmation” to. It’s hard to explain this to other, still in members, because they “know” what the spirit feels like. We just have been led astray. (Insert eye roll)
I've been lds my whole life and I never ever had any of the spiritual experiences that other members of the church claim to have despite always trying to with complete sincerity. After 35 plus years of trying, I'm forced to conclude that other people are better at self deception than I am.
I had my "conversion experience" at age 18 by reading the New Testament. I was always a New Testament Mormon, not a Joseph Smith Mormon or a Book of Mormon Mormon. I left Mormonism because I studied its origins and history and concluded that it's all made up.
You are correct that those who have all these 100% phony "spiritual experiences" are more self deceived than you are, however, if you have anything to do with the Godless religion of science (scientism) they you are every bit as blind, lost deceived and outside of the kingdom of God as the mormons are.
The fact is, scientism is the real religion of the Godless abomination of mormonism, as well as the real religion of everything known as the church/Christianity. Scientism is the one world religion!
Thank you for your courage and you are a hero!! Stay strong in TRUTH!!
Although it is true that mormonism is all a 100% false, manmade fraud, but just because one understands this truth in no way means that they understand any other truth. Those that escape from the Godless abomination of mormonism will with almost 100% certainty become ensnared into some other false manmade lie/deception.
What is truth? A very important man once asked that same question.
I practiced Mormonism until my thirties, and during that time, I looked into the apologetics associated with it. The level of mental gymnastics I encountered was astonishing, often bordering on delusion and bias. If the faith genuinely represented absolute truth, its historical evidence should speak for itself without the need for such delusional justifications.
Spot on! I hope you were able to help some of your family and friends to see it that way too.
Mormon apologists use the same reasoning techniques as flat earth believers or moon landing deniers.
I believe God is love, and that love is emulated when we try to connect to God in any way. We then take that feeling of love and define it according to our own personal agendas. If I am mormon and feel God's love, then mormanism is true. If I am in another faith and I feel that feeling, then that faith is true. What we do is mistake God's love for something very different.
Keep telling your story Nathan. You will help a lot of people. Leaving the church is so hard.
Emotional manipulation and training you to misidentify warm feelings as knowledge is a spiritual trap.
The deepest damage after deconstruction is we often are left questioning ourselves rather than identifying elevation emotion conditioning.
Indeed. Believers in many different religions use those warm feelings as evidence that their sect is true. A Baptist might say that he has been "convicted" or that he has been "baptized by the spirit." None of those feeling equate to their sect being the "one true" one.
This is why one must get past the good feeling stage and learn to hear God's voice through the Holy Ghost.
(1 Cor 2:10-14) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
I was in an oppressive cult in my youth. After I got out I was bitter and became atheistic for a while.
But it dawned on me that I was judging God on the basis of what I had experienced in the cult. I took me a while to realize that that man was not God, nor was a reasonable facsimile of God.
Therefore whether I was to believe or disbelieve had to be totally separated from my experiences.
I love these episodes.
I had a spiritual experience in a Hindu temple….does that mean that Hinduism is “true?” I felt it and knew my experience was “true.” Maybe God is way bigger than we think. BTW I’m still an Episcopalian.
First off, as an episcopalian, you are not a Christian, just another lost person deceived by a false religion. Second, yes, everyone in ever false religion thinks they have had a spiritual experience that CONvinces them to believe that they have found a/the truth religion.
@ well, you sound just like me 40 years ago, before I was betrayed by my so called fundamentalist mentors and “friends” who exploited me and discarded me when I was no longer willing to be exploited by them. It’s been a long and difficult journey from that infinitesimal god to the loving expansive gracious deity I worship today. I just hope you don’t have to endure what I have in your faith journey…..
I’m glad to hear that you haven’t lost your faith in God. If you’ve found a home where you feel you can grow closer to God and one that provides you with a greater opportunity to serve others I think that’s wonderful.
I don't think a church with $300 billion in assets can be true (Mathew 19:16-22).
But I believe the gosepl to still be true. Big difference between the two.
The key to getting answers from God is to be open to the answer. You have free will and God will not violate that even if you ask. You need to ask God and tell him to show you where you are blocking him. God also has his time and that is rarely your time. God may keep you somewhere until the time is appropriate. Then and then only then will he have you somewhere else until the time is appropriate. Life is a journey; let God love you. Embrace the awkwardness of not getting your answer by embracing God. (Also God usually speaks in parables).
The simplest way to enjoy life is:
Let God love you everyday. That is success. Enjoy your journey.
Wow.
The ONGOING Restoration sure knows a lot less these days. You'd think they'd be INCREASING in knowledge. Game over for the "restored fullness of the gospel"
The truth is, mormonism could not possibly be a more antigod, antibible, antichrist, false, manmade religion. It is everything the Bible warns us not to be deceived by.
@@VoxClamantisinDeserto-zw2mt
Sadly the opposite is true. Most Christians don't believe the Bible like Mormons do.
Most Christians don't believe God is a God of gods and that there is an assembly of gods that he is God over.
See Duet 10:17, Psalm 82:1,6
Thank you for sharing.
2 videos in 1 day! Are you trading religiosity for YouTubosity? Joking aside, I'm proud & happy for you. If your progression from the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS is similar to mine away from the evangelical church, it will only get easier, clearer, & more fulfilling as you discover a life based upon intellectual honesty--accepting that we don't have some answers & probably never will, & being at peace with that. As I frequently remind myself, feelings are not facts. Enjoying your videos and appreciate you sharing.
So true! Love it. Thats what missions are for, to convert the missionary, if they survive, mentally and physically!
@@jennwelding6281 Have always known the “save it be one” is referring to the missionary’s self conversion after hardship, isolation, sacrifice, food & comfort deprivation have forced the missionary to say “it must be true for God to tell us we must endure these trials”.
Missions are to snare the lost into the Godless abomination of mormonism to extract money from them and to control them. Mormonism has nothing whatsoever to do with the God, the Jesus, the truth, the gospel, not the Christianity of the Bible. It is all a con artist made fraud to make money and have control over the totally willingly ignorant.
@@VoxClamantisinDeserto-zw2mtthe difference between Mormons and other Christians is, Mormons believe the Bible while the others do not.
Do you believe God of gods and a Lord of Lords?
If you don't believe believe God is a God of gods, you don't believe the Bible. It's that simple.
See Deut 10:17
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that "ain't ain't a word and you ain't sposed to say it - say ain't five times and you ain't goin to heaven"
They call it Elevated Emotion.
The Bible (God) calls mormonism a Godless abomination. The false con artist made cult of the accursed of God. Repent!
Merry Christmas Nathan and thank you for having the integrity to stand up for truth.
Truth?
That's definitely subjective my friend. In my opinion this poor brother has been a fool. 🥺
Is soulful suffering is tragic and completely unnecessary. I think he's one of many who got lost in the culture and forgot that it's really only about Jesus Christ and our covenant.
He's thrown away the heaps of evidence in favor of the restoration for the sake of anecdotal evidence. Yes, "you find what you're looking for"; he simply had a shift for whatever personal reasons that caused him to start looking for reasons to doubt. All of Mormonism hinges on praying to know it's true?! BS
There is real evidence found in several forms. All he has to do is open himself to all the evidence and he'll find himself right back where he started. He was blessed with the ultimate and has thrown it away. 🥺
@@nathanschaupp9709glad you’re here to hear the truth about Mormonism. Keep coming back to hear more ❤
@ I guess Truth can be subjective to some people but that really sounds more like the old LDS Duck and Dive to me. (Formally known as the Mormon Monte.)
@@nathanschaupp9709 When you study Mormonism objectively it doesn’t take very long to realize that Christ is an after thought in the religion. He is wedged in where ever possible to make the whole thing go down easier.
How do you navigate nihilism? Are you able to find what you’re looking for? No good and no evil. What is there to believe when God is dead?
Deuteronomy 18:22 outlines the test we should use for determining if a prophet is true or not. It can be difficult to prove truth, but with THAT test, we can at least prove falsehood.
They hijack normal human emotions and thought patterns. Elevation emotion comes from singing together for example.
Richard G Scott to an MTG large group meeting (I was in) in February 1995- --- "I no longer need faith to believe... borrow my faith." -_-
Yes this is the nonsense type stuff they spew to make us believe they walk and talk face to face with Christ without actually saying they have…and then later they can say, “we never said we had those type of experiences .” They play mind games to manipulate us into believing they are something they are not, but can still claim deniability when necessary.
What a brilliant, inspiring presentation. If only I believed in god, I would thank him for YOU 😀
I believe that sometimes God gives us an accurate answer to a prayer, but we place additional meaning on it. I had a great spiritual experience on my mission where I believe that God told me “The Book of Mormon makes people more Christlike beings“. It was accompanied by the burning in the bosom as well as that sense of pure light and knowledge flowing into my mind. I can never forget it or deny it.
But if I consider it honestly and rationally God did not say that the Book of Mormon was true or an accurate history. He did not say that Jesus is the Christ. He did not say that the LDS church was the only true church. I added all of that Meaning myself.
You are correct! Everything those snared into the Godless abomination of mormonism believe has ALL ONLY come from their evil, wicked, corrupt, spiritually dead and blind hearts. None of it has any basis whatsoever in truth or reality.
Mormonism is a 100% fake, con artist made, 100% antigod, antibible, antichrist religion. It is the religion of the accursed of God.
Nathan, sounds like your buying into the lie that the LDS church teaches that if the LDS church is not true, the NO church is true. And sometimes when a member leans the facts about Joseph Smith or the history on the LDS church and decides to leave, thay become total Atheist. If that is the case, please read the book (Is atheism dead?) by Eric Metaxas. Great book, and archaeology dose seem to confirm the crazy stories in the Bible.
Quiet liar.
I second that. Just cause the LDS church isn't true, don't throw the baby out with the bath water
The problem is the difference between Mormons and other Christians is Mormons believe the Bible while the others do not.
Do you believe God is a God of gods that judges among an assembly of gods?
If you don't, you don't believe the Bible. See Duet 10:17, Psalm 82:1,6
@@MarkHigbee
God of gods refers to false, pagan gods (LOWERCASE g)
Lord of lords refers to human lords/kings
Deuteronomy 18:22 provides a very simple test, for determining if a prophet is false or not. It's very simple. If a prophet makes a false prophesy, they are a false prophet. False prophesies appear throughout the entire Book of Mormon, and Joseph Smith himself made many false prophesies, including the Temple being built in Missouri within a generation.
There is FAR more Biblical evidence that REJECTS your theology, than supports it.
@nottiredofwinning3736 So you would dimish our God and say he is a God of false gods? And that he holds assemblies with false gods made out of stone?
Do you think David would sing praises to the our God before false gods?
(Psalm 138:1) I will praise thee with my whole heart: before the gods will I sing praise unto thee.
Again: the Bible says our God is a God of gods. It doesn't say he is a God of false gods... he doesn't judge among non present false gods in his assembly. He judges among the elohim or the gods... These are not false gods.
There is what is and then there's the story we create around what is.... The Buddha
I don't think God lied to you. I think we are each given unique experiences that help us and others at that time. We all grow and learn as we go. I've deconstructed, but I still can't deny the experiences I've had. Amongst the members and those that have left the church who have deconstructed here in Australia, we still discuss our experiences. My confirming experience wasn't about joseph Smith or the Book of Mormon, I was given an individual experience that was important for me. I agree we should be careful not to come to conclusions too quickly. I agree that many have confirmation bias. I had a great experience in a chinese church where I felt the spirit come in and hover over the crowd for ten minutes and leave. My leaders didn't agree, but to this day, I appreciate the great experience I had there. Another came when a Hindu woman gave me a blessing, I felt the spirit and her good intentions. It was another great experience. I wish you well on your journey.
@@andrewreed4216 Finding the goodness in others, without caring about their religion, has been the greatest affirmation of humanity! I now appreciate their uniqueness. Life without judgment is so liberating and beautiful.
Can always treat it like science if people like. The scriptures say to "experiment" upon the word. Run an experiment. Read, study and follow... then measure the results of the change in one's life.
Alma 32:27 begins with a desire to believe, which sets up a bias.
Examine the facts without bias, with neither a desire for it to be true or false. Examine the facts of archaeology, of genomics and of ancient America. Be willing to accept the truth even if it goes against what you want it to be. Even if it goes against what you currently believe. Be willing to accept the truth under those conditions.
When one removes all feeling and preconceived bias from the Book of Mormon and examines it on the actual evidence alone, it becomes clear that it is not from any ancient people anywhere in the Americas and in fact is a fraudulent hoax from the early 19th century.
You are completely lost and deceived. NO ONE can intellectually figure out God and the truth of Gods only words to mankind, the 66 books of the Bible. Mankind can only and will only be deceived.
The ONLY way anyone can ever understand Gods words (the 66 books of the Bible) is if God FIRST makes them spiritually alive. The Bible is only understood by the very, very, very few who Jesus came to save and make spiritually alive. The rest of the people of the Godless world who are ALL 100% spiritually dead and blind will only become ensnared into some false manmade religion that they used their 100% corrupted intellect to conclude is a true religion.
Experimenting on the teachings to determine if it is ‘true’ is poor logic. First off, many people have tried the teachings and it is harmful for them but even if you try the teachings and they’re good, that doesn’t automatically mean the Book of Mormon becomes a true document. I could write a pamphlet or book about an alien civilization that lived on Mars with a good way to live in it. If you experiment on my ‘teachings’ found on that pamphlet and find it to be good, do you automatically assume my alien civilization is real?
Spiral Dynamics also explains this.
BRAVO 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏🎉
Great video!
That would be my answer too about when I prayed to know what to do and which Church to take my family to. I think it was a coincidence that the Mormon missionaries knocked on my door at that moment. I think that most mormons would disagree but most other religions would agree with me. If it had been someone from their church though, then it would have been an answer. Confirmation bias.
There is a logical fallacy in your argument (although I agree with almost everything you say here). It is that if you claim that we can't "know" that the church is true or the BoM is true or things like that, how can you claim to "know" that JS was a polygamist, or that the BoM isn't true?
Either we can "know" things outside our own experience, or we can't. Which is it?
Mental conditioning. I left the church 12 years ago and I'm still deconstructing this cult mentality. I know that I don't know a damn thing.
Thank you so much for this amazing video! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: I have a SafePal wallet with USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). What's the best way to send them to Binance?
Born and raised in the lds church, left in 2020, and feel as though there isn't a God, that's its all make believe.
I don’t understand the problem- even if the church is not the one and only true church - it still doesn’t have anything to do with Gods existence. God was here long before the Mormon church and people in other churches and religions also have miracles and spiritual experiences. God meets us where we are.
The ONLY thing I personally know is the divine manifestations I’ve received. The first time was when I decided on my own to read The Book of Mormon. I was not active in the church and I had no bias other than I knew my life was heading in the wrong direction. There was no emotional stimulus that preceded what came over me. I can’t deny what happened to me. It was not an endogenous feeling and it filled me with light and love. Of coarse it caused immense feelings to come out of me. If I dumped an ice cooler of water over your head it would cause you to have feelings. It changed my life instantly.
That being said, we don’t have a monopoly on God’s love or witnesses from the Holy Ghost or born again experiences or whatever term you prefer. God has way more children that He loves and will reach them any way He can. Our host of missionaries are way too small to match God’s desire that his children become aware of Him.
Where I disagree with your analysis is where to put your trust. When I read church history or hear the testimony of others or study the origins of the Book of Abraham I’m only reading what others have written or said or I’m getting second or third hand analysis. What happened to me over 30 years ago was the one thing that I personally witnessed. It was real. I don’t know why some have had light bulb moments like mine and others have never had that experience but I know I would have never stayed faithful without it and I admire those like my wife who were simply born with the gift of faith. She’s like a magnet for all things good.
God is real we should never give up on God .
The lds church is false
But that doesn’t make God any less true .
I’m new to your channel
I really love what you have to say ❤
I think we get into that mindset over the years that what we believe is the absolute truth so when people start deconstructing they throw everything out including God .
I had a difficult time with my diconstruction and I know that I was led to a podcast that has been life changing ) opening up our understanding and broadening our learning can open doors that have been closed .
There’s a whole beautiful world out there with Beautiful people who all have differing beliefs
But the church keeps people locked in a box
And over time we come to believe that thier is no other way , we know that that is not true but we don’t see it while we are living it .
I highly recommended moment -“Let’s get biblical “ by Rabbi Tovia Singer these books have been life changing
It’s just been a god send
And we need to open up ourselves enough so that we can connect the dots
For a wonderful Happy authentic life , putting Gods wisdom first and then loving people with all hearts and letting our light shine !!!!
Thanks brother for shedding g
Light on these difficult conversations
Happy Holidays 🎄🎄🎄
All religions might have simular experiences, but not all religions have the Book of Mormon. I prayed about it nany years ago, determined it is true, have studied it well beyond confirmation bias, and still belueve in its truthfullness. I don’t need to continue to say generalizrd prayers about the truthfullness of ‘the church’
Many people pray about the Quran and other religion’s scriptures and got the same answer that we all got about the Book of Mormon.
@ Did you used to think God only answers LDS prayers?
@@Coastal1931 do you believe the Quran and other religious books/scriptures are just as true as you believe the book is?
@ I don’t know. I believe God has a plan for all his children. The relevant question for me and you is the truthfullness of the Book of Mormon.
Brother, pray to the Holy Spirit, ask Him to guide you to the truth. It's a long journey, have patience and do the due diligence required to get there. The truth will hold up to discernment, fact-checking, and skepticism - and it will set you free. Explore the Bible (not the "inspired" version) with fresh eyes.
I commented on a post yesterday kind of about this same thing.
I know that everything you said is true😂
Come on I love it when you’re being sarcastic.
I’m a life long member of the LDS church and I also have wrestled with a lot of the history of the church off and on but I keep coming back to the conclusion that my faith is not in the arm of flesh but in God and the teachings of Jesus Christ. So instead of focusing on all of the negative history of men I try to shift my focus to only the things that will strengthen my faith in Jesus Christ and do my best to follow Him. This means I have to tune out a lot of the emotions and feelings and strive to align my moral compass toward God. At the end of the day I know that I’m only accountable for my own sins. I do agree that we have to be careful to not confuse emotions with the Holy Spirit. Some times in prayer if I rephrase my prayer I receive an answer. I also know that God has the power to reach us in many ways. Even Jesus Christ spoke parables to the Jews in things that were familiar to them. In other words we can hear truth in however the Lord can reach us individually. God Bless.
The fact is, mormonism is a 100% fake, con artist made Godless abomination. It is the religion of the completely Biblically illiterate, and the totally willingly ignorant. ALL those snared into this 100% fake antigod, antibible, antichrist fraud will with 100% certainty be thrown into the lake of fire.
And this may work for you, but the church makes demands of us, gives us expectations of ourselves and our families and members around us that can be overwhelming. What may work for you, may cause deep emotional trauma for your children and grandchildren. God is not making those demands and giving out expectations of them, fallible, opinionated human men are, and it does deep damage for some.
You seem like a nice and sincere guy. So please take what I say as less harsh than how it may appear.
There is a major flaw in your statement. You do not have faith in God or Jesus. What you have faith in is the proverbial arm of flesh, in what the Mormon church has taught you about Jesus and God. Not the same thing.
As much as you try to separate your testimony from the imperfect leaders, those same leaders gave you the concept of Jesus that you adhere to today. So you cannot separate your testimony from the “arm of flesh” as you claim, since they gave you the image and concept of God that you have.
So no, your testimony is in the church and what it taught you about Christ, nothing more.
@@Bobjdobbs Fair enough but you could also say that pretty much about everything that you have learned since childhood either in or out of an organized religion. No matter what your source is it takes faith to believe in things not seen by the mortal eye.
@@jeffreyblanton9877 Except many things, like science, can be proven empirically. So no, not everything requires faith.
As for faith in the supernatural and the magical… why would I trust a church that has done so much evil, but n the name of doctrine? Why would a good god allow unjust men to continually lead its people astray?
Satan is the author of lies. Satan also is clever. He's had lots of practice. Satan also is very good at convincing us to believe that others lied.
So, do you think that Satan was behind Joseph Smith's denials of practicing polygamy?
The fact is, there is no such thing as the devil/satan. These words refer ONLY to Godless mankind. And yes, Godless mankind has had a lot of experience deceiving the completely Biblically illiterate, and the totally willingly ignorant.
@@randyjordan5521 ,,..joseph smith was a 100% Godless con artist that lied about everything and had nothing whatsoever to do with the truth or the God/Jesus of the Bible.
“Satan is the author of lies.” The prophet and apostles of our church lie to us. They have always lied.
Sorry that this man chose to talk his way out of embracing the truth.
Watch more of his videos and story, and you'll see why.
OR... perhaps they all received positive spiritual confirmation for the sake of the good and truth that is available to them in the belief system they happened to have exposure to. In other words; it was better than nothing. There's spiritual truth and goodness in just about every spiritual belief system.
If you dig in to the history and all of the evidence you'll find yourself back home brother. This I can promise you. I've been Right where you are, I finally decided to dig in hard give the time and effort to get to the bottom of it. And now I'm home after roughly 15 years away. A part of me always knew though. It's like deep down you just know, whether you like it or not. I'm beyond grateful to have come to Faith on this; it is such a huge blessing and will be even more so in the days coming.
Regarding the native Americans, that hasn't changed, there was definitely a group of native Americans that had Jewish ancestry and the stories passed down from generation to generation indicate such. Not to mention the Jewish "earthworks" that were discovered. As well as the Hopewell mounds that match. Have you not heard about all of the native American traditions that line up??
Give it time and keep watching, more evidence will continue to surface. Maybe you just need a break brother, take a break, I get it. When you come back remember to focus on Jesus and your covenant with God only, forget about the culture and the rest of the nonsense. Much love & Merry Christmas Nathan!
🕊️🤍🕊️
PS: I promise can help you reconcile all.
DM me with Facebook Messenger
Nathan Schaupp 🙂
Which group of Native Americans had Jewish ancestry? And what Jewish earthworks were discovered? How do Hopewell mounds match?
“There is spiritual truth and goodness in just about every spiritual belief system”, including Mormonism. But it’s not complete truth. Some of the church’s teachings do a lot of deep traumatic damage to many individuals and their families. Just because it works for you doesn’t mean it won’t do damage to your children or your grandchildren. God does not cause people to hate themselves. God does not destroy self esteem, love, marriages, families…but the church many of the church teachings do.