I completely understand and believe everything you are saying. For 9 years I NEVER TREATED NOR FED my bees in Texas and they thrived!!!!!! I'm starting beekeeping again next year in NY and I will not treat again , nor feed. Thank you, thank you, thank you. We need a change. Our old ways need to change to save the bees. Listen up all beekeepers. This guy is on to something amazing.
I am in my third year as a beekeeper. My first year, I joined a local beekeepers club and followed everything my mentor said to do. I bought 2 nucs early. I was so hooked, I went back and bought 3 more that supplier hadn't sold, witch were by then in a 10 frame deep. I treated three of them with mite-a-way strips and 2 of them with essential oils. Out of the 5 hives, I lost 4 of them. This year, I did 3 cutouts from hives that have been left untreated for at least 5 years. This got me thinking. I also have caught some swarms in swarm traps. I now have 11 hives full of foundationless frames with good strong colonies in them. I haven't fed, I haven't treated, and I haven't inspected near as often. I have just been letting them "bee". One of them swarmed and I didn't get the swarm. I tried to look at that as s good chance for a "brood break" and a brand new queen. I hope to do better this year in the way of far less loss.
I bought a full functioning hive which was treated with essential oils. These bees are aggressive. I will be transferring to top bar hive (Corwin Bell design) and not treating for varroa and hopefully within a few generations they will be stronger and happier. Also, these bees are big which indicates the use of large stamped foundation. My intention is to be a holistic bee keeper. This presentation by Michael Bush is very helpful.
Hi Michael, This was a long talk but as always you pulled it off, having watched you many times on TH-cam over the years I have heard most of the theory but still picked up a few new bits. Beekeeping here in the UK is different but basically the same and is mostly determined by the weather depending on how far south or north we live.. You are a convincing speaker on the subject of not treating bees and I only wish we had more speakers like you here. Thank you for your teaching and allowing you talks to be shown for all of us outside the USA. Keep up the good work. Phil.
I like Michael Bush's presentations. I always learn a lot. I agree that science can be oversimplified and conclusions drawn from one experiment are a classic mistake to make. Lab experimentation has to field trial before you apply results broadly.
Mr. Bush, You are great and You are second Beekeeper teacher with Who I agree 100%, first one is Michael Palmer from Vermont. I think You should teach first Teacher of beekeeper and inspectors.Here is two name :Bob Wellemeyer and Rusty Foltz They should see this Video
We need to be able to test our own comb to see how much contaminants are there. Changing out comb is ok, but if it bears out that Varroa D has lower fecundity on old dark comb and I swap my bees all over to foundationless, I'm going to want to hang onto that comb as long as I can. I just bought a bunch of wax foundation last year because my installation of bees were building so slow I thought it would speed them up, and now I've decided to get all that cycled out. Well, dripping with VD here, that knocks back aging comb and getting them past this phase. If I could test that foundation I bought and maybe it really is clean and not full of contaminates I wouldn't have to cycle it out so soon. Is there a way beeks can get our wax tested or do it ourselves?
The one guy who says “we’re hands off bee Keeper” what he meant to say is I’ve never had bees in my life and I have no idea what I’m doing. I say to him your not a bee keeper, your someone who has bees. I’m a “hands off bee keeper” is like saying I’m a hand off pet owner, I’m a hands off farmer. Bees are livestock. Your honey bees are domesticated they are NOT wild. The survival of your colony depends on you to practice some animal husbandry. You wouldn’t take a hands off approach to cows, chickens, goats or cats and dogs, all were once wild but you’d make sure they were fed, dewormed, have a clean stalls, have water. Nonsense if you think your gonna have bees and not do anything, then just don’t get them at all. These kind of people infuriates me and I really wish he’d not kid glove them and just call them out.
If you have a hive that is being overrun by varroa or shb. Do you go ahead and destroy the hive comb before the infestation can grow to multiply? I worry about leaving the hive alone. Shb can reinfect the ground after the larva state.
Michael, I am wondering how similar your climate in NE is to my climate here in Wichita, KS? I understand the info you teach and trying to follow it as closely as possible realizing there can be variants. It makes a lot of sense to me and it is nice to see someone who believes that the bees -in most cases- really do know better than we do what they are doing. One of these days I would like to purchase your book but am not sure how to get all three volumes of it in one book. Do I have to buy three different volumes or does it all come in one together? First year beek and have 3 8 frame langs and 1 top bar. Three were swarms and 1 a package. I will be moving the colonies that survive winter and early spring all to top bars in the spring. Three are built already and I will be starting the other one soon and finishing it before it gets too cold so hoping for a good winter. I am already finding topbars much easier for me to manage mostly due to the lifting and not squashing as many bees. Wish there was more info on topbars. My topbar colony was a very late swarm and although doing very well only have 2 smallish combs of honey so hoping for a nice flow yet. Otherwise I guess it will be dry sugar for them. I do have quite a number of SHB as opposed to you saying you really didn't have any at all. BUT at this point they have not made a mess in any of the hives. Most everyone here is experience a large number of them. Thanks so much for all you do to help us all as well as the bees!!!
I want to start right and use foundationless frames. In my new boxes, do I just put all foundationless frames? Or should I checkerboard the frames? Foundation and non- foundation?
Foundationless frames may be OK for brood, but if you start spinning them for honey, they fall apart. Checkerboard them, they will draw them out straight. If you have old drawn frames that you want to replace, don't toss them out yet, cut the comb out but leave about 1/2 inch of the comb on the top in place of a starter strip. The bees will draw those frames also.
Excellent video with much to think about. Very logical reasoning and I will certainly be watching it again with a view to adopting some, if not all of your ideas. Just a little worried about extracting from wireless frames. I do have an extractor with variable speeds but will it extract all of the honey at low speeds without trashing the comb?
Not sure where he gets 170 mites from, I've looked high and low and can't find 170 different kinds of mites in any of my hives, just one, the varroa mite. I think he gets a little carried away sometimes because there is no scientific evidence to support this claim. I've looked everywhere online for this fact, talked to several beekeepers throughout Canada and the U.S and still have no idea what he's talking about.
You can not compare honey and sugar syrup the way Bush did. It is just not valid. Honey was processed by the bees from natural nectar and that is why it got a high ph. Natural nectar does not have such high ph neither. So open honey cells may not have that high ph yet since the bees may have not processed that nectar yet and the bees keep open nectar and honey cells around brood to raise them. Processing that nectar into honey by bees will get it that high ph. Suger syrup will get a high ph like real honey after the bees turn it into sugar honey or funny honey which looks like real honey with a slight different consistency and a different flavor. However, real honey has enzymes and vitamins and other elements that sugar honey or sugar syrup does not have, but sugar is still the closest thing that can help and keep bees alive if the bees need food. A bee can only survive about 3 days without food.
is it necessary for everybody to stop treating in the same time or can I like an individual beekeeper stop treating and come up with the resistant bees? that's the part I don't get so will someone answer that question please?
So I have a question. He says you don't feed your bees unless you have to because feeding is not as good as honey and you don't want them to die. OK makes absolute perfect sense!!!! But shouldn't folks be viewing the mite treatments the exact same way? I know a bee keeper that has done controls with equal mite counts in yards one yard they treated with oxelic acid late fall and spring hive loss count was 10% and spring mite count was 0. Non treated bees Spring hive loss count was 75% with a mite count identical to how they went into winter. Other than treatment conditions were identical and all hives wintered in the same location under the exact same conditions. I agree 100% that bees can eventually or hopefully kick varoa mites issue on their own. But, their survival is totally dependent on their learned response to the mite. Then the passing of that learned response over time until it becomes basically hereditary or in other words evolution. I fail to see how the steadfast answer don't treat ever at all or "let them die"is the solution. Bees are the product of successful evolution but extinction is the product of non successful evolution. Death of your hive from a mite infestation is simply that your hive has not acquired the learned response to the mites. If you are willing to feed to keep them alive until they can fend for themselves then why would you not treat if absolutely necessary for the exact same reason. I fail to see how dead bee's or dead hives evolve. From all i'm reading on the issue the mites aren't that big of an issue for the bees The mites slightly weaken the bees making them susceptible to vectors. In humans it takes time and study to find causes for susceptibility to vectors. Yet I see this "let them die" mentality. Are bees expected to figure this out as quickly as we did? Why feed? Why not "let them die" With the same steadfast resolution? I am not trying to be combative about these issues but I see naturalists reaming the hell out of anyone that treats and yet when I see this video it seems like the "let them die" idea only applies where and when the naturalists say so. I don't look at bees as pets. I look at bees as livestock under my care. They are most certainly a substantial investment. I grew up on a farm with livestock. We didn't treat an issue unless we had to. But when we had to we did it. Like it or not it was a part of that job just as the slaughter was. But the idea was that the death of this animal that we put so much effort into raising and maintaining actually served a purpose. I do believe that bees can learn to deal with varroa but I believe the key to that learned response is the survival of the hive first and foremost. Just like ticks or anything else. Infestation kills without treatment even in a natural environment and animals evolved to deal with the issue. I scratch my head and roll my eyes over the entire argument on both sides. The problem is not treatment as I see it. It's unnecessary and incorrect application of treatments when it's absolutely unnecessary or improper to lack of treatment when it is necessary for the hive to survive. Both of these arguments are for our beliefs and agenda and both sides harm the bees. Making the argument to not treat bees at all so they evolve to handle a large varroa infestation or die is the same as me saying pesticides and herbicides are an issue so you should visit your hives with a spray can application of raid and round up once a week. Good to have that in the honey also so we build tolerance also. Weak hives we micromanage with chemicals won't survive but neither do hives that are infested with issues we don't manage at all. What they both have in common is in both cases the hives are dead and DEAD HIVES DO NOT EVOLVE! A dead bee does not learn and does not pass on knowledge. Why is this comment this long? Because the issue is a lot bigger than a one liner.
I think his point on mites is that you have to weather the losses to get to the bees that can deal with the issue. If you keep treating, you never get bees that can survive the mites on their own, and you get stronger mites. (just noticed your post had a read more link, so my comment may be superfluous)
@@kylecostlow1 I know what he's saying. But a hive that is being over run has very little chance of survival. Dead hives do not evolve is what I'm saying. I understand that if you constantly keep every mite killed on sight with treatment that evolution may never happen. but, we have species going extinct from issues like this every day. All I am talking about is common sense management. If naturalists will criticize you for treating a pest crawling hive because the moral thing to do is leave them die then I say it's the same for feeding a starving hive. Can't fend off mites or can't feed themselves. How is it different? I'm not criticizing the people. It's extremist arguments I criticize. Some newbie is out there right now after a large investment into bees. They want to be as natural as possible. But thanks to the my way or the highway attitude of some beekeepers they are destroying the fun of it and costing a lot of people money. I have literally seen this happen.
@Mara A I use all plastic foundation and feed sugar water. Bees are fine and healthy. There again the same issue again. Opinions are great but they have to be backed with some type of evidence to actually be factual. I know commercial honey producers running all plastic frames and feeding sugar water and pollen patties and queen excluders and treating for disease. Their entire business to be successful and profitable requires huge healthy bee populations in each hive. Now what do Natural bee keepers say about plastic frames? feeding? What do they say about queen excluders? What do they say about treating for diseases. K lets go through it. Plastic frames, Feeding? Bad unhealthy and unnatural for bees. Queen excluders? They say shorten a bees lifespan by 50%. Treatments are dangerous and harmful to bees. What are the real life results of what naturalists lay out to be a perfect storm to kill a hive? "Canadian bee keepers blog" is a commercial honey producer that actually shows his hives and shares what he does which includes all this bad for bees stuff. He has massive hives, pulls 200 to 250lbs of honey per hive and he uses single box management that any naturalist will also say in a no no also. His entire business requires massive populations in healthy hives and their survival. You tell me how that is possible when he is doing everything that naturalists call harmful, unnatural and unhealthy? It's not one or two fluke hives because he is running over 1000 every single year. I have watched hundreds of videos on youtube about every management practice and equipment under the sun and I have learned one thing. Bees do poorly and die for many reasons including ignorance. The only thing that kills bees is negligence. Best chance of healthy happy bees is to put bees needs before our wants. Humans, livestock, pets or plants, if our needs are met we live healthy, longer and more productive lives. Facts matter. Numbers matter. Someone says something is bad or good, better or worse, then they have to provide proof. The guy lying his ass off to sell his unnecessary invention of equipment or drug is no more unscrupulous then the guy lying his ass off for position to sell books, classes, guest speaker services or videos. Same shit. They are lying to the ignorant and feeding off of it. The commercial bee keeper I mention above is the one that did the experiment. All hives are treated identically other than the control yard that didn't receive Oxelic acid vaporization in fall and all hives were wintered in the same temperature controlled building. By yard I mean certain number of hives He is a honey producer targeting local crops so he may have more than one yard on a specific field. Or in other words Identical variable natural conditions and co mingling of bees. He has his bees lab tested to monitor for unseen disease issues. he said the Oxelic acid was the only notable difference going into winter. That's the problem with your argument. His use of Oxcelic acid was an experiment he did to judge actual effectiveness against rumors. As I said before facts matter. You can't criticize his experiment or his results because what you claim to have interest in, you yourself, have not done. If you want to see a test with foundation-less and no supplemental feeding in a 1000+ hive apiary with a control then use your own 1000 hive foundation-less, no supplemental feeding apiary to do that test or find a naturalist out there willing to do that test with their own 1000 hive apiary. I believe the first challenge will be to find a naturalist with a 1000+ hive honey producing apiary. PS... Sick bees don't produce 200+lbs of honey per hive, every year. Results actually mean something. If's and but's don't
If there was a 100% kill, you would be correct. But even with only a 10% survival, you have something to work with. It does underscore that you can't just go cold turkey on a whole operation. Low survival rates are only a problem if they keep happening. The second year, losses should be 30% instead of 10. By the 3rd or fourth year, it might match treated. Then you could take the selected untreated group and use them to requeen your treated hives. Black Death did something similar with humans. The first epidemic wiped out 90% The 2nd, 30%, and the last major one only ~15%. Actually, it's more complicated. You need to be able to isolate from treated drones which is difficult if you don't have a really isolated yard. It would faster to requeen hives midseason if mite counts are rising rather than letting them die out.
@@RoughAndWretchedRAW I really enjoyed when you said "The only thing that kills bees is negligence." It was very enlightening. It's these sort of insights that I come to the youtube comments section for. I mean who could have imagined that bees only die when humans neglect them!! What an amazing insight, utterly blown away. I also really like the part where you explain dead things don't evolve. You don't have it backwards or anything!! I think you might have stole it from Darwin but nonetheless. And to think average joe schmo believes that it is what remains alive which is what continues to contribute to the gene pool. Backwards fools. How deep are Bayer's pockets?
I expect some flack from my club. They have whole meetings on treating. I don't want the expense and energy of treating if I'm just gonna loose about the same percentage of hives if I don't treat. It's throwing good at bad. Plus if you make candy and edible products from tainted wax. I feel your being unethical.
The first few years of beekeeping I did not treat because I listen to those natural beekeepers that where against treatment. I also lost my bees every year by not treating them, and that is very costly and disappointing and you never get honey. I gave in and I started to treat and wow I lost only 20% of my hives instead 100%. Instead, having to fight to keep colonies alive, my colonies exploded and I have twice as many colonies with a whole lot less problems . So yes, I will treat. Dead bees will not make hone. Besides, a dead mite collapsed colony will become varroa bombs when robber bees come and rob a collapsed mite hive out and the mites will take a ride back to the robber bee colony .
Where and what option are people that are raising treatment free bees using too advertise and sell their bees could you point some of us to the direction too find that source? I realize you said you can take the bees we buy and take those steps however if the 60% ratio exists that don't treat why would they not be able to compete and or just choose too sell their bees to people that would like to get treatment free bees too start with. If you can try too add information somehow along the lines to help some of us for the future, thanks for your efforts.
But we did treat for varroa though. This is something that these treatment freeors, or thought freeors have trouble grasping for some strange and unknown reason. How could anyone go treatment free now-a-days when all or most of the drones flying around out there come from treated colonies? If an individual desires to go treatment free, and their neighbour is treating, they unfortunately don't have a chance in hell. If all the beekeepers around a treatment free beekeeper are not treating, then maybe, just maybe, they might have a chance but first they'll be going through some heavy losses and may even end up losing their entire operation. If beekeeping is your livelihood, this would be an extremely foolish decision. We, as rationally thinking individuals, need to focus on the here and now, in other words, we have to be realistic, what we should have done and didn't do years ago doesn't help us now. Now, in 2019, either treat your bees, or they're dead. What other choice is there? Sure you can decide not to treat, but your neighbours will most likely burn down your house since you'll be sharing your mites with them and making it more difficult for yourself and everyone else around you. Focus on reality people, that's all that matters now.
The points you make regarding various treatments against parasites, bacteria, virus, etc. could be right as much as be wrong. There are also people who advocate not immunizing people against polio, tuberculosis, diphtheria ,pneumonia etc. So, who is on the right track?
The treatments he's talking about are not immunization. Bee treatments kill the pathogens by external force (medication), which can have detrimental effects. He's advocating that we allow bees to build resistance to these pathogens through natural exposure, and be able to cope with the pathogens with their own internal force (immune system). For humans this is different because we have vaccines and can do controlled immunizations. Diseases we cannot vaccinate for we treat with medication because sacrificing humans to weed out the weak ones is not considered ethical, most people don't have that concern for the individual bee. In time the queens and drones with naturally good resistance to pathogens will survive and reproduce, creating a new generation of naturally stronger bees.
Sounds nice, but when we return back to reality this philosophy has no place in the real world, yet. We all want treatment free bees, that is what researchers and scientists are striving towards but it unfortunately is going to take longer than we would like. In the meantime, our bees cannot handle varroa on their own, and as animal husbandry practitioners, we have to assume the role of care takers and insure our bees have low mite levels at all times to insure their health and well being, anything less is a form of neglect. Manage and control varroa people, or find another hobby.
We're already there,past varroa issues in the tf community at large. We all took and take the losses for all the treaters who want to halt the bees evolution perpetuating the problem today breeding stronger mites everywhere so thanks for being part of the solution...
You have hit the nail on the head on sooooooooooooo many marks. Congratulations!!!! This is amazing. Listen up Beekeepers around the world.
Awesome content!
I completely understand and believe everything you are saying. For 9 years I NEVER TREATED NOR FED my bees in Texas and they thrived!!!!!! I'm starting beekeeping again next year in NY and I will not treat again , nor feed. Thank you, thank you, thank you. We need a change. Our old ways need to change to save the bees. Listen up all beekeepers. This guy is on to something amazing.
I am in my third year as a beekeeper. My first year, I joined a local beekeepers club and followed everything my mentor said to do. I bought 2 nucs early. I was so hooked, I went back and bought 3 more that supplier hadn't sold, witch were by then in a 10 frame deep. I treated three of them with mite-a-way strips and 2 of them with essential oils. Out of the 5 hives, I lost 4 of them. This year, I did 3 cutouts from hives that have been left untreated for at least 5 years. This got me thinking. I also have caught some swarms in swarm traps. I now have 11 hives full of foundationless frames with good strong colonies in them. I haven't fed, I haven't treated, and I haven't inspected near as often. I have just been letting them "bee". One of them swarmed and I didn't get the swarm. I tried to look at that as s good chance for a "brood break" and a brand new queen. I hope to do better this year in the way of far less loss.
I bought a full functioning hive which was treated with essential oils. These bees are aggressive. I will be transferring to top bar hive (Corwin Bell design) and not treating for varroa and hopefully within a few generations they will be stronger and happier. Also, these bees are big which indicates the use of large stamped foundation. My intention is to be a holistic bee keeper. This presentation by Michael Bush is very helpful.
Michael, such a great presentation. concise and to the point with the right amount of explanation. Thanks
A very informative and easy to understand delivery. Thank you so much
I read "Silent Spring" by Rachel Carson way back in High School in the early 60's. You are very right! Stop the poisoning!
Thanks for posting! More good talks on Beekeeping is a big help.
Hi Michael, This was a long talk but as always you pulled it off, having watched you many times on TH-cam over the years I have heard most of the theory but still picked up a few new bits. Beekeeping here in the UK is different but basically the same and is mostly determined by the weather depending on how far south or north we live.. You are a convincing speaker on the subject of not treating bees and I only wish we had more speakers like you here. Thank you for your teaching and allowing you talks to be shown for all of us outside the USA. Keep up the good work. Phil.
Best spring greetings from beekeepers in Ukraine!
As a rather new beekeeper, I am really getting a lot out of your talks Michael.
Thanks for doing this.
-Steve
I as well my first year next year One of the first lectures I did not fall asleep in lol I learned a lot
Brilliant! Thank you Micheal Bush for your ability to simply describe the ecology of a bee colony.
Thank you very much,, a whole lot of good information to digest, cheers.
I like Michael Bush's presentations. I always learn a lot. I agree that science can be oversimplified and conclusions drawn from one experiment are a classic mistake to make. Lab experimentation has to field trial before you apply results broadly.
Mr. Bush, You are great and You are second Beekeeper teacher with Who I agree 100%, first one is Michael Palmer from Vermont. I think You should teach first Teacher of beekeeper and inspectors.Here is two name :Bob Wellemeyer and Rusty Foltz
They should see this Video
Thank for the information.
We need to be able to test our own comb to see how much contaminants are there. Changing out comb is ok, but if it bears out that Varroa D has lower fecundity on old dark comb and I swap my bees all over to foundationless, I'm going to want to hang onto that comb as long as I can. I just bought a bunch of wax foundation last year because my installation of bees were building so slow I thought it would speed them up, and now I've decided to get all that cycled out. Well, dripping with VD here, that knocks back aging comb and getting them past this phase. If I could test that foundation I bought and maybe it really is clean and not full of contaminates I wouldn't have to cycle it out so soon. Is there a way beeks can get our wax tested or do it ourselves?
The one guy who says “we’re hands off bee Keeper” what he meant to say is I’ve never had bees in my life and I have no idea what I’m doing. I say to him your not a bee keeper, your someone who has bees. I’m a “hands off bee keeper” is like saying I’m a hand off pet owner, I’m a hands off farmer. Bees are livestock. Your honey bees are domesticated they are NOT wild. The survival of your colony depends on you to practice some animal husbandry. You wouldn’t take a hands off approach to cows, chickens, goats or cats and dogs, all were once wild but you’d make sure they were fed, dewormed, have a clean stalls, have water. Nonsense if you think your gonna have bees and not do anything, then just don’t get them at all. These kind of people infuriates me and I really wish he’d not kid glove them and just call them out.
If you have a hive that is being overrun by varroa or shb.
Do you go ahead and destroy the hive comb before the infestation can grow to multiply?
I worry about leaving the hive alone.
Shb can reinfect the ground after the larva state.
Thanks! I'm going foundationless.
Akhenaten Hotep Amun how did this work out for you?
I love the name.
Is he the pharaoh who was monotheistic.
Michael, I am wondering how similar your climate in NE is to my climate here in Wichita, KS? I understand the info you teach and trying to follow it as closely as possible realizing there can be variants. It makes a lot of sense to me and it is nice to see someone who believes that the bees -in most cases- really do know better than we do what they are doing.
One of these days I would like to purchase your book but am not sure how to get all three volumes of it in one book. Do I have to buy three different volumes or does it all come in one together?
First year beek and have 3 8 frame langs and 1 top bar. Three were swarms and 1 a package. I will be moving the colonies that survive winter and early spring all to top bars in the spring. Three are built already and I will be starting the other one soon and finishing it before it gets too cold so hoping for a good winter. I am already finding topbars much easier for me to manage mostly due to the lifting and not squashing as many bees. Wish there was more info on topbars. My topbar colony was a very late swarm and although doing very well only have 2 smallish combs of honey so hoping for a nice flow yet. Otherwise I guess it will be dry sugar for them.
I do have quite a number of SHB as opposed to you saying you really didn't have any at all. BUT at this point they have not made a mess in any of the hives. Most everyone here is experience a large number of them.
Thanks so much for all you do to help us all as well as the bees!!!
I'm not far from Wichita, 60 miles. This is my third year and it's becoming a wonderful obsession, can you recommend a good organization in Kansas.
Michael Bush, what are you feeding new colonies and the bees in the winter? If you feeding them anything. Thanks.
I want to start right and use foundationless frames.
In my new boxes, do I just put all foundationless frames? Or should I checkerboard the frames?
Foundation and non- foundation?
Foundationless frames may be OK for brood, but if you start spinning them for honey, they fall apart.
Checkerboard them, they will draw them out straight. If you have old drawn frames that you want to replace, don't toss them out yet, cut the comb out but leave about 1/2 inch of the comb on the top in place of a starter strip. The bees will draw those frames also.
appreciate his knowledge. little preachy
preachy or passion ?
Excellent video with much to think about. Very logical reasoning and I will certainly be watching it again with a view to adopting some, if not all of your ideas. Just a little worried about extracting from wireless frames. I do have an extractor with variable speeds but will it extract all of the honey at low speeds without trashing the comb?
Michael, how can we treat bees with vegetable (herbal) oil? Smoker? I hope the how-to can be shown, too. Thanks ~ ^_^
Not sure where he gets 170 mites from, I've looked high and low and can't find 170 different kinds of mites in any of my hives, just one, the varroa mite. I think he gets a little carried away sometimes because there is no scientific evidence to support this claim. I've looked everywhere online for this fact, talked to several beekeepers throughout Canada and the U.S and still have no idea what he's talking about.
You can not compare honey and sugar syrup the way Bush did. It is just not valid.
Honey was processed by the bees from natural nectar and that is why it got a high ph.
Natural nectar does not have such high ph neither. So open honey cells may not have that high ph yet since the bees may have not processed that nectar yet and the bees keep open nectar and honey cells around brood to raise them. Processing that nectar into honey by bees will get it that high ph.
Suger syrup will get a high ph like real honey after the bees turn it into sugar honey or funny honey which looks like real honey with a slight different consistency and a different flavor.
However, real honey has enzymes and vitamins and other elements that sugar honey or sugar syrup does not have, but sugar is still the closest thing that can help and keep bees alive if the bees need food. A bee can only survive about 3 days without food.
is it necessary for everybody to stop treating in the same time or can I like an individual beekeeper stop treating and come up with the resistant bees? that's the part I don't get so will someone answer that question please?
You have no control over what anyone else does. If you don't want to treat your bees, then don't treat them.
So is chalkbrood not as dangerous as foulbrood?
So I have a question. He says you don't feed your bees unless you have to because feeding is not as good as honey and you don't want them to die. OK makes absolute perfect sense!!!! But shouldn't folks be viewing the mite treatments the exact same way? I know a bee keeper that has done controls with equal mite counts in yards one yard they treated with oxelic acid late fall and spring hive loss count was 10% and spring mite count was 0. Non treated bees Spring hive loss count was 75% with a mite count identical to how they went into winter. Other than treatment conditions were identical and all hives wintered in the same location under the exact same conditions.
I agree 100% that bees can eventually or hopefully kick varoa mites issue on their own. But, their survival is totally dependent on their learned response to the mite. Then the passing of that learned response over time until it becomes basically hereditary or in other words evolution. I fail to see how the steadfast answer don't treat ever at all or "let them die"is the solution. Bees are the product of successful evolution but extinction is the product of non successful evolution. Death of your hive from a mite infestation is simply that your hive has not acquired the learned response to the mites. If you are willing to feed to keep them alive until they can fend for themselves then why would you not treat if absolutely necessary for the exact same reason. I fail to see how dead bee's or dead hives evolve. From all i'm reading on the issue the mites aren't that big of an issue for the bees The mites slightly weaken the bees making them susceptible to vectors. In humans it takes time and study to find causes for susceptibility to vectors. Yet I see this "let them die" mentality. Are bees expected to figure this out as quickly as we did? Why feed? Why not "let them die" With the same steadfast resolution?
I am not trying to be combative about these issues but I see naturalists reaming the hell out of anyone that treats and yet when I see this video it seems like the "let them die" idea only applies where and when the naturalists say so. I don't look at bees as pets. I look at bees as livestock under my care. They are most certainly a substantial investment. I grew up on a farm with livestock. We didn't treat an issue unless we had to. But when we had to we did it. Like it or not it was a part of that job just as the slaughter was. But the idea was that the death of this animal that we put so much effort into raising and maintaining actually served a purpose. I do believe that bees can learn to deal with varroa but I believe the key to that learned response is the survival of the hive first and foremost. Just like ticks or anything else. Infestation kills without treatment even in a natural environment and animals evolved to deal with the issue.
I scratch my head and roll my eyes over the entire argument on both sides. The problem is not treatment as I see it. It's unnecessary and incorrect application of treatments when it's absolutely unnecessary or improper to lack of treatment when it is necessary for the hive to survive. Both of these arguments are for our beliefs and agenda and both sides harm the bees. Making the argument to not treat bees at all so they evolve to handle a large varroa infestation or die is the same as me saying pesticides and herbicides are an issue so you should visit your hives with a spray can application of raid and round up once a week. Good to have that in the honey also so we build tolerance also. Weak hives we micromanage with chemicals won't survive but neither do hives that are infested with issues we don't manage at all. What they both have in common is in both cases the hives are dead and DEAD HIVES DO NOT EVOLVE! A dead bee does not learn and does not pass on knowledge.
Why is this comment this long? Because the issue is a lot bigger than a one liner.
I think his point on mites is that you have to weather the losses to get to the bees that can deal with the issue. If you keep treating, you never get bees that can survive the mites on their own, and you get stronger mites. (just noticed your post had a read more link, so my comment may be superfluous)
@@kylecostlow1 I know what he's saying. But a hive that is being over run has very little chance of survival. Dead hives do not evolve is what I'm saying. I understand that if you constantly keep every mite killed on sight with treatment that evolution may never happen. but, we have species going extinct from issues like this every day. All I am talking about is common sense management. If naturalists will criticize you for treating a pest crawling hive because the moral thing to do is leave them die then I say it's the same for feeding a starving hive. Can't fend off mites or can't feed themselves. How is it different? I'm not criticizing the people. It's extremist arguments I criticize. Some newbie is out there right now after a large investment into bees. They want to be as natural as possible. But thanks to the my way or the highway attitude of some beekeepers they are destroying the fun of it and costing a lot of people money. I have literally seen this happen.
@Mara A I use all plastic foundation and feed sugar water. Bees are fine and healthy. There again the same issue again. Opinions are great but they have to be backed with some type of evidence to actually be factual. I know commercial honey producers running all plastic frames and feeding sugar water and pollen patties and queen excluders and treating for disease. Their entire business to be successful and profitable requires huge healthy bee populations in each hive. Now what do Natural bee keepers say about plastic frames? feeding? What do they say about queen excluders? What do they say about treating for diseases. K lets go through it. Plastic frames, Feeding? Bad unhealthy and unnatural for bees. Queen excluders? They say shorten a bees lifespan by 50%. Treatments are dangerous and harmful to bees. What are the real life results of what naturalists lay out to be a perfect storm to kill a hive? "Canadian bee keepers blog" is a commercial honey producer that actually shows his hives and shares what he does which includes all this bad for bees stuff. He has massive hives, pulls 200 to 250lbs of honey per hive and he uses single box management that any naturalist will also say in a no no also. His entire business requires massive populations in healthy hives and their survival. You tell me how that is possible when he is doing everything that naturalists call harmful, unnatural and unhealthy? It's not one or two fluke hives because he is running over 1000 every single year.
I have watched hundreds of videos on youtube about every management practice and equipment under the sun and I have learned one thing. Bees do poorly and die for many reasons including ignorance. The only thing that kills bees is negligence. Best chance of healthy happy bees is to put bees needs before our wants. Humans, livestock, pets or plants, if our needs are met we live healthy, longer and more productive lives. Facts matter. Numbers matter. Someone says something is bad or good, better or worse, then they have to provide proof. The guy lying his ass off to sell his unnecessary invention of equipment or drug is no more unscrupulous then the guy lying his ass off for position to sell books, classes, guest speaker services or videos. Same shit. They are lying to the ignorant and feeding off of it.
The commercial bee keeper I mention above is the one that did the experiment. All hives are treated identically other than the control yard that didn't receive Oxelic acid vaporization in fall and all hives were wintered in the same temperature controlled building. By yard I mean certain number of hives He is a honey producer targeting local crops so he may have more than one yard on a specific field. Or in other words Identical variable natural conditions and co mingling of bees. He has his bees lab tested to monitor for unseen disease issues. he said the Oxelic acid was the only notable difference going into winter. That's the problem with your argument. His use of Oxcelic acid was an experiment he did to judge actual effectiveness against rumors. As I said before facts matter. You can't criticize his experiment or his results because what you claim to have interest in, you yourself, have not done. If you want to see a test with foundation-less and no supplemental feeding in a 1000+ hive apiary with a control then use your own 1000 hive foundation-less, no supplemental feeding apiary to do that test or find a naturalist out there willing to do that test with their own 1000 hive apiary. I believe the first challenge will be to find a naturalist with a 1000+ hive honey producing apiary. PS... Sick bees don't produce 200+lbs of honey per hive, every year. Results actually mean something. If's and but's don't
If there was a 100% kill, you would be correct. But even with only a 10% survival, you have something to work with. It does underscore that you can't just go cold turkey on a whole operation. Low survival rates are only a problem if they keep happening. The second year, losses should be 30% instead of 10. By the 3rd or fourth year, it might match treated. Then you could take the selected untreated group and use them to requeen your treated hives. Black Death did something similar with humans. The first epidemic wiped out 90% The 2nd, 30%, and the last major one only ~15%.
Actually, it's more complicated. You need to be able to isolate from treated drones which is difficult if you don't have a really isolated yard. It would faster to requeen hives midseason if mite counts are rising rather than letting them die out.
@@RoughAndWretchedRAW I really enjoyed when you said "The only thing that kills bees is negligence." It was very enlightening. It's these sort of insights that I come to the youtube comments section for. I mean who could have imagined that bees only die when humans neglect them!! What an amazing insight, utterly blown away.
I also really like the part where you explain dead things don't evolve. You don't have it backwards or anything!! I think you might have stole it from Darwin but nonetheless. And to think average joe schmo believes that it is what remains alive which is what continues to contribute to the gene pool. Backwards fools.
How deep are Bayer's pockets?
I thought we needed to feed bees syrup when we got a 3# package and put them in a new hive?
so Michael Bush does not do anything to treat varroa?
A Natural state would not have ant EFB if we were in a perfect world.The hive I did not treat had full blown EFB when the inspector showed up.
what is a "hot hive"?
mitch rawles an aggressive hive. They are fast to defend the hive
thanks
one that you want to requeen. end of story
We call those giant looking mosquitos mosquito hawks here in Alaska. 😂
So do bees get high off bee bread?
Does Honey Bee Healthy fall into the essential oils
Kevin Haupfear Yes. It is essentially Lemongrass and Peppermint oil
Kevin Haupfear Yes, I'm pretty sure Michael said it contains peppermint & Lemongrass.
As far as I know, it is a mystery what is in it. They do not list any of the ingredients.
@@FloryJohann many people have the recipe. I use Pro Health
I expect some flack from my club.
They have whole meetings on treating. I don't want the expense and energy of treating if I'm just gonna loose about the same percentage of hives if I don't treat.
It's throwing good at bad.
Plus if you make candy and edible products from tainted wax. I feel your being unethical.
The first few years of beekeeping I did not treat because I listen to those natural beekeepers that where against treatment.
I also lost my bees every year by not treating them, and that is very costly and disappointing and you never get honey.
I gave in and I started to treat and wow I lost only 20% of my hives instead 100%. Instead, having to fight to keep colonies alive, my colonies exploded and I have twice as many colonies with a whole lot less problems .
So yes, I will treat.
Dead bees will not make hone. Besides, a dead mite collapsed colony will become varroa bombs when robber bees come and rob a collapsed mite hive out and the mites will take a ride back to the robber bee colony .
Where and what option are people that are raising treatment free bees using too advertise and sell their bees could you point some of us to the direction too find that source? I realize you said you can take the bees we buy and take those steps however if the 60% ratio exists that don't treat why would they not be able to compete and or just choose too sell their bees to people that would like to get treatment free bees too start with. If you can try too add information somehow along the lines to help some of us for the future, thanks for your efforts.
God Created everything with a balance you messed it up you mess it all up. level the bees to themselves and they will balance out
But we did treat for varroa though. This is something that these treatment freeors, or thought freeors have trouble grasping for some strange and unknown reason. How could anyone go treatment free now-a-days when all or most of the drones flying around out there come from treated colonies? If an individual desires to go treatment free, and their neighbour is treating, they unfortunately don't have a chance in hell. If all the beekeepers around a treatment free beekeeper are not treating, then maybe, just maybe, they might have a chance but first they'll be going through some heavy losses and may even end up losing their entire operation. If beekeeping is your livelihood, this would be an extremely foolish decision. We, as rationally thinking individuals, need to focus on the here and now, in other words, we have to be realistic, what we should have done and didn't do years ago doesn't help us now. Now, in 2019, either treat your bees, or they're dead. What other choice is there? Sure you can decide not to treat, but your neighbours will most likely burn down your house since you'll be sharing your mites with them and making it more difficult for yourself and everyone else around you. Focus on reality people, that's all that matters now.
The points you make regarding various treatments against parasites, bacteria, virus, etc. could be right as much as be wrong. There are also people who advocate not immunizing people against polio, tuberculosis, diphtheria ,pneumonia etc. So, who is on the right track?
The treatments he's talking about are not immunization. Bee treatments kill the pathogens by external force (medication), which can have detrimental effects. He's advocating that we allow bees to build resistance to these pathogens through natural exposure, and be able to cope with the pathogens with their own internal force (immune system). For humans this is different because we have vaccines and can do controlled immunizations. Diseases we cannot vaccinate for we treat with medication because sacrificing humans to weed out the weak ones is not considered ethical, most people don't have that concern for the individual bee. In time the queens and drones with naturally good resistance to pathogens will survive and reproduce, creating a new generation of naturally stronger bees.
awalt26439 I think God got that under control
these people walking up and down are annoying
Sounds nice, but when we return back to reality this philosophy has no place in the real world, yet. We all want treatment free bees, that is what researchers and scientists are striving towards but it unfortunately is going to take longer than we would like. In the meantime, our bees cannot handle varroa on their own, and as animal husbandry practitioners, we have to assume the role of care takers and insure our bees have low mite levels at all times to insure their health and well being, anything less is a form of neglect. Manage and control varroa people, or find another hobby.
We're already there,past varroa issues in the tf community at large.
We all took and take the losses for all the treaters who want to halt the bees evolution perpetuating the problem today breeding stronger mites everywhere so thanks for being part of the solution...